Mets 10, Braves 8 (by coop)

Baseball is a rule-governed game. Its arbiters are subject to the faults and frailties of all human beings, but the rules themselves are inviolate. One of those inviolate rules is this: you cannot win if you cannot outscore your own pitching staff.

The Braves batters hit the heck out of the baseball today, until they didn’t. The Braves pitchers were the definition of futility.

Braves lose.

Here’s how it went.

Jace Peterson had a good day, a single, a three-run home run and a bloop double in his first three at bats. Kelly Johnson had three hits including a double as well as a walk and drove in two runs. Juan Uribe had three singles and drove in a run. Nick Markakis had a single, a double and an rbi. It wasn’t enough to support the Braves pitching staff. Jace singled in the first, stole second and scored on Freddie Freeman’s single. I’m pleased that we have Jace.

Ugly Betty showed up in the bottom of the first, allowing the Mets to knot the score at one with a passed ball. Good defense is his forte; patience is not mine.

Jace encored with his three-run blast in the second. Kelly Johnson bumped the margin to 5-1 Braves in the top of the third, plating Arab Singles after Juan Uribe singled him into scoring position. Mets closed the gap to 5-3 in the bottom of the frame.

Weird sequence: Curtis Granderson and Lucas Duda sandwiched a Juan Lagares force out with singles and Travis d’Arnaud walked. Faulty got the second out by uncorking a wild pitch off the perfect brick to ricochet back to Cuter Betty. Wilmer Flores then singled in the remaining two runners but was erased trying to get to second.

The Braves seemingly broke the game open in the fourth. After Folty fanned, Jace blooped his double to left. Cameron Maybin, who was as bad today as he’s been good lately, struck out again. Freddie was intentionally walked, and Arab Doubled in two. Uribe moved Neck to third with a single, and Kelly singled Neck home. 8-3 Braves.

The Mets had us just where they wanted us. Folty pitched Home Run Derby in the bottom of the inning, allowing Darrell Ceciliani (love the name) to hit his first big league home run. An out later, Folty gave up another homer to Dilson Herrera (another great name). Now it’s 8-5 Braves, and our boys are going to go into hibernation.

Bottom of the fifth, wish I’d been there: after one out, Lucas Duda singled; and Fredi was sick of Folty. Can’t blame him. Brandon Cunniff came in, and Travis d’Arnaud (Where are the Mets finding these guys? Their team sounds like a course in world lit.) homered to make it an 8-7 game. Braves fans are no longer laughing.

Braves 6th: Hibernation mode – zzzz!

Mets 6th: Luis Avilan serves up singles to pinch hitter Michael Cuddyer, Curtis Granderson and the stake-through-the-heart home run to Juan Lagares. We’re done. Merry Christmas, Mets. Hope Toronto sweeps you.

The Braves got zero hits from the fourth until Juan Uribe singled with one out in the ninth.

The Braves handled Dillon Gee. The rest of the Mets gave us nothing. Our staff gave the Mets the game. Sometimes you lose after you lead 5-1 and 8-3, but it’s never fun.

192 thoughts on “Mets 10, Braves 8 (by coop)”

  1. The impartiality of this team is admirable. We gave a game like this to the Gnats, so it’s only fair we give one to the Mets, too, since they’re battling it out for the top spot in the East.

  2. Braves have lost 4 times this season when scoring 8 or more runs (7-4). From 2010-2014, we went 103-1 when scoring 8 runs or more. This was shown in a graphic during the game.

    Or something like that–I’m going from memory

  3. We should just call this bullpen ‘Reitsma’s Revenge’ and be done with it.

  4. Avilan’s performance made me think our bullpen problems could be mostly mental. He seemed to be throwing absolute garbage to the first 3 batters until he gave up the go-ahead home run. After that he looked almost unhittable with 2 strikeouts. Did anyone else notice that?

  5. I would imagine a bullpen unit would be similar mentally to most other work environments. If there’s constant turnover, lack of consistency, and roles constantly changing, that’s probably going to disrupt the performance of the unit. That makes sense, right? This thing’s been a dumpster fire, and the only one who has had any consistency is Grilli.

  6. I feel the need to point out that yet again Fredi went his patented move where he lets the pitcher bat and then pulls him next inning after a couple of batters. He does like at least once or twice a week. It really bothers me that he continues to do this.

  7. @7 – That is a thing, but in this case, no one is going to bat for a starter in the top of the 5th with a big lead and a reasonable pitch count.

  8. Pinch hitting for Folty wasn’t an option. Leaving him in longer was. It was an awfully quick hook, yanking him after just one reached in the 5th. Made no sense. I would’ve understood more if Folty had been walking a lot of guys.

  9. Not to be a broken record, but dual starters. Or 5-4/6-3 split. Or whatever is different from what’s currently happening.

  10. @7

    Really, the only reason I want to the NL to adopt the DH is to make life easier for Fredi’s remaining gray cells. It’s almost unfair that other managers get to face this guy in a league that the pitcher bats.


    For being the easiest ‘team’ sport to analyze on a individual player basis, baseball is still surprisingly conservative. It took them how long to figure out that shifting players where the other guy hits the ball is a good idea? Regardless, new and creative ideas aren’t exactly Fredi’s forte unless they involve very small sample sizes or Constanza.

  11. The Braves need a catcher that can actually catch the baseball. Markakis should not be batting cleanup. Folty needs more time in AAA.

  12. I;m not sure AAA is going to teach Folty anything he couldn’t learn better up in the Show. I mean we put up with Glavine’s and Smoltzie’s on the job training in the late 80’s and ’90. If we have to suffer through a 4-12, 5.00 ERA type year to get to something better, then I’m all for it.

  13. Last paragraph from Peanut’s piece after loss yesterday:

    “The Braves have toyed with the idea of promoting highly-regarded pitching prospects Matt Wisler or Manny Banuelos from Triple-A Gwinnett to strengthen their bullpen. As of early Sunday afternoon, it did not appear they were ready to imminently go that route. But the frustration that built over the few hours that followed certainly provided reason to at least reevaluate that option.”

    I’m not sure I like this idea unless it’s a way to limit Man-Ban’s innings.

    Edit: Thx Coop! Haven’t written in a while. Been preparing for our little one that will arrive in August!

  14. Priorities shift, Mr. C. Your life will be fuller, happier, sadder and oh, so much more rewarding. Enjoy.

  15. I was comparing Folty’s situation to Smoltz’s as well. Smoltz had an ERA of 5 in his first year too, though he was 21. Glavine had a couple bad years before he got it going. If we’re not contending, might as well let Folty figure it out up here. Plus, what’s the other option?

  16. I see the Braves marketing department has dubbed this season the “Summer of Fun”

  17. Release them. Keep Grilli, Johnson if you must. DFA every single one of the relievers. Help them get started in their second careers.

  18. Ryan Cothran’s got his groove back.

    He posted an insightful analysis on how he would fix the Braves 25 and 40 man rosters. Good reading, whether you buy in totally or not.

    Personally, I’ve seen enough of Pedro and, though I root for him, Todd. Next contestants, please.

  19. Bethancourt has batted .208 w/ a .528 OPS in 29 games. He has been charged with six passed balls in 236.1 innings.
    — Mark Bowman (@mlbbowman) 2015-06-15T15:23:48Z

    I’m not the only one whose patience is wearing thin with Betty. Peanut seems to be on a crusade.

  20. DOB says Bethancourt has been optioned to AAA; Ryan Lavarnaway has been recalled.

  21. Doesn’t somebody get a prize for being the worst reliever in the worst bullpen in baseball? Like Mr. Irrelevant or the Copper Kerosene Can?

  22. Well the best reliever gets the Rolaids award…so it could be the Reflux Reliever of the Year.

  23. Good, Betty needs to play every day. I still don’t think he was worse than AJP, but he has the talent to be a lot better. Also, Adderall. Just sayin.

    Re: Folty, I echo the comparisons to our other young starters. Greg Maddux and Steve Avery also got slapped silly for at least part of a season before they were any good. They and Smoltz were younger than Folty, but young pitchers need to take lumps.

  24. Really, the only reason I want to the NL to adopt the DH is to make life easier for Fredi’s remaining gray cells.

    You know what would make life even easier for Fredi’s remaining gray cells? Making sure he never has to make another tough managerial decision for the 2015 Braves.

  25. This far into the season I can’t believe that we’ve got an above-average offense. I’m not sure how much credit goes to Seitzer and how much can be chalked up to the fact that we’ve replaced the two worst offensive players in modern baseball history with above-average players…but still…I’m surprised, and impressed.

  26. @41-Mets broadcasters had a nice discussion yesterday about how Maybin claims that his turnaround is entirely due to Seitzer…apparently in Spring Training he listened in on an interview Seitzer was doing and everything he said clicked. Then entirely by coincidence he ended up traded to the Braves.

  27. In 2011, Ryan Lavarnway hit 32 HR in 116 games split between AA and AAA. His successful minor league career has not carried over to the MLB as of yet, as he’s OPS’d .546 in 307 AB in the bigs.

  28. Since AJ is already a bit of a drama queen, new catching duo should be called Lavarne and Shirley.

  29. @42

    Very interesting. I’d love to know more about how all that came about, but we probably never will.

    Good to see Bethancourt optioned. He needs consistency and coaching, but the talent is there.

    3B, 2B, and CF have been huge upgrades. Simmons is also about 100 OPS points higher than last year (more in line with 2013 which makes him an All-Star in my opinion). RF has been a slight upgrade from OPS but a downgrade in defense. C and LF have been a downgrade.

    And the bullpen is the worst thing ever.

  30. Lavarnway has only one possible nickname: Bulldog.

    At last! My two sports passions collide as a Yale player makes it to an Atlanta team.

  31. Why would we want Bud Black? If Fredi Gonzalez was handed the roster that the Padres have, and we were 32-33, everyone would be screaming for Fredi’s head. And I know that because the Braves have a significantly worse roster than San Diego, they have very similar records, and many people want Fredi gone. I’d imagine the answer to what manager most fans would want their team to have would be “not theirs”.

    Shoot, I had to listen to Tampa Bay residents for years complain about Joe Maddon. Uhhhh, excuse me? “Durr, durr, he uses too many line ups. Durr, durr, that shift thing is stuhpid.”

  32. The Mets just DFA’ed Dillon Gee, and I actually think we should put him in our bullpen.

    The reason that I want Bud Black is that from afar, Bud Black has looked like a pretty good manager. The reason that I want Fredi gone is that he presided over two of the worst collapses in baseball history in 2011 and 2014, and in 2015, he has repeatedly blamed his players for losing. If he hasn’t lost the clubhouse yet, it’ll happen.

  33. 2011 was certainly a historic collapse, but I’m not sure if I’m following on 2014. But I do hear your point that 2014 was a disappointment. He also presided over some teams constructed by a fired GM and took to the playoffs, so a manager must get credit for his successes too. I also feel like the Braves have far exceeded expectations in 2015, and if one penalizes Fredi for 2014, then one must give credit for 2015.

  34. Well, Dillon Gee only gave up one run in the first inning yesterday, so if you limit him to one inning, a 9.00 ERA beats what we’ve seen lately.

  35. @53 It’s pretty clear that he’s lost Teheran. He can’t be the only one.

  36. I give him credit for the fact that the team’s overachieved this year, but I simply don’t believe he deserves a job after the horrendous collapses in 2011 and 2014 — remember, this is a team that was in first place last July 19. Then they went 26-39, transparently gave up during a 7-18 September, and they got their GM fired and virtually the entire offense replaced.

    But again, what annoys me most about his performance in 2015 is not his bullpen handling. It’s his habit of blaming his players for losing. Bobby would have yelled at them behind a closed door and defended them in public. That’s not what Fredi’s been doing.

  37. I don’t see any reason why anyone should give Fredi any credit for the team overperforming. 100% of that is due to unexpected offense, primarily Maybin, Peterson and Simmons. There are stories attributing improvement in each case to Kevin Seitzer. Other than giving too many at-bats to EYJ, Cunningham and Gomes, and repeatedly messing up lineup construction, what exactly has Fredi done for the offense?

  38. Fredi Gonzalez is a bad players’ manager, but he makes up for it with shrewd in-game strategy. Oh wait…

    @62, and if you’re going to give Fredi credit for the overachievement of a few offensive players, then you have to blame him for the underachievement of the relievers. I think either one is silly.

  39. Gee was pissed off when the Mets took him out of the rotation. I think he wants to start somewhere and probably will.

  40. @61 Teheran clearly hates him. He didn’t even want to hand him the ball when he got pulled, trying to get Simmons to do it instead. I’ve seen guys get upset with getting pulled — Pedro Borbon yelling at Cox comes to mind — but it didn’t happen often during the Cox years. But they would hand him the ball. Not wanting to give the ball to the manager says a great deal.

    I also thought what he did with Wood was over the top. I can’t imagine that enhanced that relationship.

  41. One thing I’ll say is that I really like McDowell and Seitzer. My concern is that we will lose both of them if Fredi makes it to the end of the year. It just seems like we’ll have a better chance of retaining them if Fredi gets the ax some time before the season is over.

    Again, Fredi’s in-game management is questionable but not bad enough imo to fire him (see Bobby Cox). His control of the team is another story (see also Bobby Cox for a good example this time). I think Hart and Schuerholz have a very good read on this and will have a low tolerance if they think things are spinning out of control.

  42. Alex, I’d love to see a poll gauging people’s confidence in the Braves organization braintrust and strategy through the rebuild. Something along a scale from “2015 Cubs = 2017 Braves” to “I’d rather hand the franchise over to Reuben Amaro”.

    I’m intersted to see where others stand. I’m a bit in the middle in that I’d rather see the house cleaned of the old guard, more of a commitment to analytics and more suck with higher draft picks.

  43. 68, if Fredi had anywhere near Cox’s leadership qualities, I don’t think most would be calling for him to be fired. Some still would just as some wanted Cox fired, but most here recognize the value in a players’ manager

  44. I don’t care who the manager is but I’m tired of Fredi. His tactical errors make me hate watching this team, and I don’t want to hate.

    I think TP deserves a shot. He deserves more of a fair shot than a 1.5 year audition with this “transition” roster, but that’s still better than no shot at all.

  45. That was a quick top of the first. Hope the Bills fare as well.

    Please, csg, from your keyboard stroke to God’s electronic device. Fredi has worn me out.

  46. Love TP. Don’t know if he’s a good manager but he was my favorite Brave from that 1991 team. I used to try to switch hit (unsuccessfully) bc he did. There was a big spread in the AJC where they showed his differing stances back then and he explained his methods. He was such a thinking player, and he really made himself into an MVP with smarts rather than unusual talents. I’d love to see him get a shot.

  47. I want Fredi fired just to laugh my ass of at DOB’s rage-crying tweets that would inevitably follow.

  48. Is KJ hobbled or does Fredi really think Gomes is a better left fielder? Makes no sense.

  49. Big papi is seeing double

    @78, Gomes has played in Boston so he knows how to negotiate the green monster. It’s no small thing.

  50. And it says something about how crappy our bench is that either Gomes or CJ have to hit against a righthander with KJ at DH. Why in the world did we send down Terdo?

  51. Terdoslavich and Eury Perez deserve a shot to show they can be major leaguers. If they don’t get one with this team, I just don’t see how they’re gonna get one

  52. I’m in no hurry to watch Eury Perez, but Terdo has some pop and could actually help this team. You take all of what to this point have been Gomes(vs.RHP)/EYJ/Cunningham ABs and give them to Terdo and that might be a couple extra wins.

  53. Y’all are nuts. Alex just as you and others are quick to blame Fredi for 2011 and 2014 rhe best he gets is tepid respect for 2012 and 2013. This year the team is playing way above expectations.

    Of course I don’t put any stock in the notion that a manager has any significant effect on a teams won loss record. If your going to blame him for the teams failings you have to give him credit for the teams successes.

    I think its clear that Fredi isnt Bobby. So what? He calls out his players. So what? There are different ways to manage. i’ve read comments from the sainted Joe Madden where he openly critisized his players.

    Fredi will never be as successful as Bobby, but Bobby had way better players.

  54. @83, it’s possible they have intelligent reasons for their positions, you know. It’s not “nuts” to criticize a manager that even the torporous Keith Law woke up to criticize as one of the worst managers in baseball. (That is, it takes a lot for him to pay attention to the Braves)

  55. I think its nuts to attribute the mass fail of 2011 and 2014 but not the success of 2 straight 90+ win seasons on the manager.

    I’ve posted this once already, but the irony of 2015 is that it may go down as Fredi’s best managing job.

  56. @90, I think it’s fair, when a manager has 50% of his highly talented teams melt down to criticize the manager. He hasn’t shown himself to be any sort of a steadying influence

    As you say, managers have little enough influence for a talented team to win in spite of him. See Don mattingly too.

  57. When we take a substantial lead, I start to fear and tremble. Nothing good can come of this.

    The legend of J. Gomes vs. RHPs continues to grow.

  58. well, no DP in the 4th, but six double plays in the first four innings is still pretty impressive.

  59. It’s tough to hit against a tandem. You don’t know which one is coming with the pitch.

  60. In 1960, Ted Williams’ final season, at age 41, he hit 29 homers and posted a 1.096 OPS

  61. Andrelton’s getting a lot of good loving from ESPN tonight. Maybe it won’t be all Bosox and D. Yankees from now on. Nah, I’m hallucinating.

  62. @95 I am amazed something like this is actually happening (and that it’s actually not Cardinals fans accomplishing this). Omar Infante may lose his starting job then turn around and start in the All-Star Game. Gotta love the fan vote. I may have to fill out an all-Royals ballot and do my part. If this hold up, maybe MLB will do the right thing and turn the game back into an exhibition game only.

    If each Williams will take four innings and then turn the ball over to Grilli, we might actually win a game.

  63. I’d fire Fredi right now to bring in Bud Black. Literally. Leave the dugout, Bud is here

  64. I really like Williams Perez, he’s done some really good things for a team that needs them. Count me among the camp that is continually amazed how every game thread is about getting rid of Fredi. It’s statistically impossible that Fredi is responsible for every Braves loss, but contributes nothing to a Braves win, and yet that is what many who post here would have you believe. I really miss Mac’s influence right about now.

  65. @113, many give fredi credit for things on here. Just above I defended the decision to start gomes. How much his good decisions outweigh his putrid decisions is in the eye of the beholder. Most agree that he’s more bad than good.

  66. @123: Watching the Red Sox broadcast… They were unanimous that it has to be a hit batsman. Simba was pulling the bat back.

  67. 129- The wonderful thing about Simmonses is that he’s the only one!

    And Jace Peterson continues to succeed despite the handicap of that name.

  68. Dear announcers: the Braves are never threatening to break anything wide open with this bullpen.

  69. Well, there’s a chance the Sox won’t pull this one out. Do they have any former Braves who can hit a walk-off or score the winning run?

  70. Here we go again.

    The end is near!

    Here’s Fredi. How many retreads can we cycle through this inning?

  71. Eveland has a nasty slider. Not sure he we have to put in that justifies taking this guy out with 1 out in the 7th with a 4-1 lead.

    Hell, at least he’s throwing strikes.

  72. Masset has done ok for us. Aardsma has had success before. Eveland has proven time and again to be a batting practice pitcher and he shouldn’t be on a roster.

  73. 156- I admit i have missed many of the games since his call up. He looked pretty impressive striking out Papi and then served up a gopher to Bogarts.

  74. Talking to my buddy, a sox fan. I said “I think we split these 4 games”. He says he thinks braves take 3 of 4. I say “if the game were 7 innings long we’d sweep, but we’ll blow 2/4”

  75. Ryan Lavarnway’s dad was my childhood and high school friend. So good to see his son in a Braves uniform.

    And while his dad was much thinner in build, he had Andruw Jones level ability to cover the outfield. Also,one pass play on our football team was to just sling it out there and let Lavarnway run under it. Decided early to pursue architecture at San Luis Obispo, ending his playing time there.

    New favorite Braves!

  76. Grilli tries very, very hard to give up a dinger, but barely fails.

    Edit: And there’s another near-HR for a double.

  77. Urgh. Simmons handcuffed, throws a short-hop and Freeman can’t make the scoop. Tying run at the plate.

  78. And it’s Grilli going for the Reitsma room save… although this year, we should call it a Reitsmiracle.

    Whew. Reitsmiracle.

  79. .210 batting average for De Aza. Yep, we’re doomed.

    Edit: 0-2 count. Grilli’s had the last three guys with two strikes. Now we’re super-doomed.

  80. Listen, my children, and be frightened silly
    By that ten o’clock ride of Jason Grilli.
    On the 15th of June, twenty-fifteen
    Hardly a fan is now living
    Who won’t remember that game and inning.

  81. If Andrelton’s hand is somehow miraculously not broken, I bet he will still miss the next few games with swelling. That was a nasty hit he took.

  82. I know we all focus on our own inadequacies, but at least we don’t have to bring in a .210 69 OPS+ pinch hitter representing the go-ahead run with two outs in the ninth. Even Jonny is a little better than that.

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