Rockies 3, Braves 2

Atlanta Braves vs. Colorado Rockies – Box Score – July 20, 2011 – ESPN.

This was almost one for the Miserable Braves Loss Type-Index. Tim Hudson gave up a two-run homer in the first inning, then pitched valiantly all night, keeping the Braves in it while they blew several chances. Eventually they tied it up — only to lose with two out in the ninth when Martin Prado committed a two-base error and Eric O’Flaherty gave up a single to a lefthanded hitter.

After Todd Helton, again, homered in the first, the Braves cut the lead in half in the second when Jason Heyward singled and scored on a two-out David Ross double. And then it sat there. Jordan Schafer led off the third with a single, then stole second, and was stranded. Hudson singled in the fifth, then Schafer grounded into a double play. Prado reached on an error eading off the sixth, then Freddie Freeman doubled, and somehow they didn’t score in the inning. Finally in the eighth, Dan Uggla singled home Schafer with two out to tie it. But all in vain.

199 thoughts on “Rockies 3, Braves 2”

  1. That ninth inning did drop O’Flaherty’s ERA under 1, so it wasn’t ALL bad.

  2. My quote on the previous thread was an attempt at satire. I guess that it isn’t immediately obvious says it all, huh?

  3. So, all the rumor-mongers are saying we’re out on Pence and Beltran.

    For our own mental-health, maybe we should get an early start at rationalizing the inevitable deal for Jonny Gomes:

    Vs. Righties: .174/.303/.360/.663 in 195 PA’s.
    Vs. Lefties: .340/.446/.547/.993 in 65 PA’s.

    From this, we can draw one main conclusion, among other minors: Dusty Baker is dumber than Fredi Gonzalez. Why has Gomes been given THREE-TIMES the PA’s against RH as against LH?

    Also: Demolishing LH’s. Can’t hit RH’s, but still manages to draw plenty of walks against them.

    Giving him starts in the OF against LH starters would obviously help our cause. But I don’t think we’d get much value out of him as a pinch hitter, though. He’d be hitting for the pitcher often, so opposing managers aren’t likely to waste their best LH reliever to face Gonzalez, McLouth and the pitcher’s spot, so he won’t be coming in to spoil a LOOGy unless you pinch hit him in Heyward’s spot. Perhaps you can get a few mismatches by sending Hinske up to force the opposing manager to go to a leftie to face McLouth, Hinske, Schafer… but if I’m managing, I don’t waste my best LOOGy there.

    I digress.

  4. Also, FWIW:

    Career Vs. Lefties: .281/.377/.510/.887
    Career Vs. Righties: .226/.308/.429/.737

  5. Gomes is a streaky, streaky hitter. If we caught him on a good streak, he would be great, but he is notorious for being streaky.

  6. According to MLBTR, the Braves could be pondering sending Heyward back to AAA. I highly doubt that would happen.

  7. Video of Stephen Drew’s ankle injury. Pretty gruesome.

    I did something like that to me knee once. Ankle seems like it would hurt worse though.

  8. Someone’s extra prickly today at CAC…I had a little fun @27&32, but he’d rather swat at flies than address direct refutation….

  9. Based on what FO has actually SAID, then Gomes isn’t primary move or only move. Marlon Byrd or Reed Johnson (hereinafter the “Cubs pair”) SHOULD by their talk and in “reality” be the targets. They are neither as good against lefties, but both better against righties than Gomes and, unlike Gomes, they can at least play passable center and possibly good left field (where Gomes is probably worse than Hinske. I also don’t know if Gomes has the arm for right (probably not because he has almost never played right), thus making him have less value that the Cubs pair again.

  10. Someone compared Peter’s attitude problem to that of Keith Law… and yes, I guess they’re both pricks. But Keith Law is nowhere near as insecure as Peter. Keith can be snarky, but its funny sometimes. Peter just can’t talk to people.

    Peter’s site provides some great analysis, but the guy is just insufferable.

  11. I love CAC for the analysis. I try to ignore the tone and focus on the points being made there, which admittedly is sometimes difficult- but after all, it is Peter’s site, he gets to speak as he wishes.

    Generally I struggle with those who see things in absolute black/white terms. Which I guess makes me an equivocator which probably isn’t any better.

  12. 14—Spilborghs fits the stated bill, too.


    I love CAC for the analysis. I try to ignore the tone and focus on the points being made there, which admittedly is sometimes difficult- but after all, it is Peter’s site, he gets to speak as he wishes.

    Ditto. Peter’s not a bad guy at all, but his tone is often alienating. But, he’s a Braves fan, so I can tolerate the tone a lot better than I can that of fellow alienators Rob Neyer and Kevin Goldstein.

    EDIT: I actually find Ben a lot more offputting than Peter.

  13. Heyward doesn’t have the arm for right either. Or rather, he has an arm but has yet to actually make a good throw to home.

  14. With Heyward’s size, (and his.. ahem, health) I kind of anticipate him losing a good bit of speed and falling to a lumbering LF type eventually. And I agree about his throwing, I think it was overstated in his prospect years. I’ve yet to be impressed.

    When Chipper retires, and Prado moves to third, I’d consider moving him to LF. I don’t think they will, however.

  15. New lineup, Schafer cant swing…

    Prado 5
    Heyward 9
    McCann 2
    Freeman 3
    Hinske 7
    Conrad 4
    Gonzalez 6
    McLouth 8
    Hanson 1

  16. Schaefer can’t swing because of his finger? Or he can’t swing because he’s a terrible player? Or both?

  17. From Jim Powell:

    “Schafer scratched with very sore second knuckle on middle finger of throwing hand. He’s day to day. Uggla may miss a couple more games too.”

  18. By Michael Lipinski on Twitter @mike247sports

    According to a source, the Phillies and Houston Astros have discussed a trade involving OF Hunter Pence. The Phillies, who are looking for a right handed bat to balance their lineup, have contacted the Astros and the teams have exchanged names. The Astros would be willing to make a trade but the Phillies would have to part ways with Jonathan Singleton (Single-A Clearwater), John Mayberry (MLB), Jarred Cosart (Single-A Clearwater), and/or Justin De Fratus (Triple-A Lehigh Valley). The Astros have also asked for Michael Stutes but it is highly unlikely that the Phillies would part ways with the right hander. The Phillies would like to make the deal but they are leaning towards not trading away Jonathan Singleton.

  19. I didn’t know Uggla was hurt. It stinks that he’s forced out just as he’s beginning to hit the ball well.

  20. Pence isn’t a winner. Maybe we can get Oppie Taylor. He is wholesome and awinner.

    Stupid Braves

  21. MLBTR

    •The Phillies have been scouting Beltran and the Mets have been scouting the Braves’ system in anticipation of possible trades, according to Adam Rubin of The Mets may try to obtain Randall Delgado or Arodys Vizcaino from the Braves, Rubin reports.

  22. Well, Singleton/Mayberry/Cosart is a pretty darn steep price — I can understand the Braves being reluctant to part with comparable talent for 2.5 years of a not-being-paid-way-below-market-salary player.

    Would you give up Delgado/Salcedo/Pastornicky for him?

  23. If the Astros give Pence away like they did Oswalt, well, I don’t know what I’d do. I guess nothing. But it will piss me off royally.

  24. 35 – It was an and/or. Mayberry and De Fratus aren’t a steep price to pay at all, and it makes sense for the Astros to get back a legitimate prospect for their best player. If I was the Phillies, and I knew I could keep paying over slot (like the Yankees and Red Sox) to replenish the farm system, I’d give up a top prospect for Hunter Pence.

  25. I’m no doctor but Uggla did not appear to be in too bad a shape last night when he was pulled. Surely this will not be a major setback.

  26. @35

    No. But I’d be okay with a package centered around EITHER Delgado OR Vizcaino for Pence or Beltran.

    If we can get either Pence or Beltran for a prospect package that doesn’t include Teheran or Salcedo, then I’d do it. Pastornicky I’m a little iffy about, but I think I could talk myself into it if that’s what it took.

    Also, it may or may not be worth noting that at the start of trade season, Tim Dierkes predicted that Delgado would be the best prospect moved before the deadline.

  27. I wouldn’t be okay with giving up any of the team’s top 3 prospects for less than half a season of Carlos Beltran–especially if he isn’t going to play center field.

    As for Pence, the bigger issue is his contract. He’s going to be making an eight-figure salary for each of the next two seasons, so while he is under team control he’ll also be expensive. I don’t think the Braves can afford him without Houston picking up significant salary. Next offseason, the Braves will need to find a CF, several relievers, a couple more bench spots and, if you send Pastornicky to Houston, a SS. Even if they dump Lowe’s 2012 salary, they won’t have much money to work with if they also add Pence.

  28. What about a Willingham/Balfour package? Obviously Willingham isn’t going to play CF but as has been noted, with rest/injury days he could get plenty of ABs (though he hasn’t been great so far this year), and Balfour would help…

  29. Salcedo has reached the level of untouchability that Teheran is at, at least in my own personal trading doctrine. He’s got a much larger chance of busting since he’s so far away, but there’s a huge black hole at third base looming in the near future, and he’s got a chance of being a star there.

    I’d give up one of Delgado (my preference) or Vizcaino for Pence, and then some lesser pitchers/position prospects. Maybe Delgado, Andrelton Simmons, and JJ Hoover. That’s a pretty sweet haul for Houston and it doesn’t really set us back at all, unless you think Simmons is the next Elvis Andrus, which he very well could be.

  30. 37—If the deal includes both Singleton and Cosart, that’s two elite prospects. I saw the “and/or,” but I can’t imagine that it’s Cosart and DeFratus being treated as equivalents.

    I’d give up one of the elite guys, too, but the point is that this Phillies package includes two, plus something else useful. Extremely steep.

  31. FWIW, I’d rather do business with Ed Wade, who is an idiot, and leave Philly to do business with Sandy Alderson, who is not.

    And Pence may get paid the next few years, but at least he’s yours to pay or trade. There may be very little surplus value, but there’s value there nonetheless.

  32. I think he might actually be worse. At least Rivera has proven that he can play first, too.

  33. I live in Reds Country. They are so down on Gomes right now that he could be had for a song (not Phil Collins, though).

  34. 46 – True, I wouldn’t trade Singleton and Cosart for just Pence. But I have a feeling they won’t have to do that. Wade is not only a moron; he’s seemingly Philadelphia’s moron. If Amaro could wrangle Oswalt for so little AND not have to pay him in 2010, he can get Wade to lower his asking price.

    That said, the one thing working against both the Braves and Phillies right now is that Wade is fighting for his job. He knows that his prior work isn’t up to snuff and wants to save face, possibly retain his position, through the winning of a trade. His asking price might be prohibitively high. If it’s not, I think Philadelphia is the more likely team to land Pence–he fits a need more clearly, and they have less to lose by sacrificing a cost-controlled young talent.

  35. My barber hears that a deal for Beltran is on the table and just needs sometime for DOB to write a spin story on how grea Wren is.

    NY gets: Vizcaino, PTBNL and Paul Clemens
    ATL gets: Beltran and Isringhausen

  36. How did McCann not make it to second on that? Had to be lack of hustle out of the box, right?

  37. Spike, I strongly dislike Guillen as a person, but he’s had a lot of success with his teams in Chicago. Fredi should wish that he has at much success with a baseball team — and with creative uses of the f-word — as Ozzie.

  38. i’m listening to the game at, click on “listen live”. I don’t know if you have to be in Atlanta or what, but it’s working for me

  39. 41 – Agreed. I am hesitant to trade any top prospect for a slightly above average rental.

  40. Give this club 127M payroll, and let’s see how it falls out. Guillen is a player baiting, backstabbing so and so who can’t seem to control mouth or much of anything else. That WS title is going to cost Chicago for a long time. If his managerial qualities had something to do with their success that year, then he is accountable for the notable failures thereafter, and if they did not, then I don’t see what the attraction is.

  41. I know he’s had a great season and is a terrific pitcher but for the life of me, I just cannot watch Tommy Hanson pitch. He is slow and just reminds me of Russ Ortiz. Not fair and accurate, I know, but that’s how I feel on days like today.

  42. This annual Coors horror show is just the worst part of every season. The only thing good to come out of this place in the last couple of years was news of the Francouer trade.

  43. @76 Yes, and @75 Heyward badly misplayed a ball off the wall, allowing Fowler to get to third and steal home standing.

  44. if we would be patient, I think we can get this Chacin guy. He’s throwing 50/50 balls/strikes right now.

  45. #76
    Squeeze play, Chacin jabbed at & missed the pitch, it bounced off McCann’s mitt a few feet away & Fowler waltzed to the plate.

  46. I honestly don’t think there’s a lot Jason could’ve done about Fowler’s triple, given where he was positioned.

    What are the odds that AGony doesn’t swing at the first pitch?

  47. He’s definitely getting squeezed a bit, but you’re not going to get those calls when you’re so inconsistent I guess.

  48. @84 I agree. And in case no one noticed, the wall out there isn’t exactly flat. You can’t perfectly predict how a ball is going to bounce in that situation, especially at a park you’ve hardly played at. But if you’ve never been in the situation, I guess it’s easy for some to lob grenades, especially at the new whipping boy.

  49. The more I think about it, the more amazing it seems that the Braves have been scoring as much as they have with Nate McLouth, Alex Gonzalez, and Jordan Schafer all in the lineup.

    Also, it pains me to watch our pitchers in Denver. Their pitches just don’t break, and all of a sudden guys who don’t leave the ball up ever are leaving the ball up all the time.

  50. @102 More like Tommy Samson. His pitching powers are clearly tied to beard length. I just don’t think he could slay the Phillies with the jaw of a jackass right now.

  51. Some of us are supposed to be working, so please tell us what magnificent thing Mr. Freeman did.

  52. Braves are 0-6 in games where they don’t score. (Rather surprised we’ve only been shut out 6 times)

  53. he HR’d to tie the game

    and how about that 12-pitch atbat by Hinske, drawing a walk? nice

  54. My brother says that Gammons spoke to someone who says that Wren is looking to trade Minor and a prospect for Beltran.

  55. Is it just me, or was the first strike Gonzalez took a straight fastball down the middle of the plate?

  56. I hate that there’s now “Nasty Factor”. I went to gameday to see the pitch f/x numbers on that first called strike to Gonzalez, and I miss the old ones.

    The best I can do is this, and I don’t know what most of it means:

    des=”Called Strike” id=”357″ type=”S” tfs=”164836″ tfs_zulu=”2011-07-21T20:48:36Z” x=”89.27″ y=”146.79″ on_2b=”462405″ sv_id=”110721_144834″ start_speed=”91.3″ end_speed=”85.8″ sz_top=”3.220″ sz_bot=”1.490″ pfx_x=”-0.973″ pfx_z=”7.194″ px=”0.301″ pz=”2.233″ x0=”-0.870″ y0=”50.000″ z0=”5.963″ vx0=”3.458″ vy0=”-133.739″ vz0=”-6.407″ ax=”-1.800″ ay=”23.034″ az=”-18.790″ break_y=”23.9″ break_angle=”3.6″ break_length=”4.3″ pitch_type=”FF” type_confidence=”.890″ zone=”6″ nasty=”38″ spin_dir=”187.658″ spin_rate=”1464.949″ cc=”” mt=””

  57. I wonder how the Angels feel about calling up Trout now? Kid is really struggling out of the gate.

  58. Terry Harper was the guy who dislocated his shoulder waving a guy home. Ron Gant had a motorcycle accident and broke his leg – I think. Those were the good old days of Braves baseball.

  59. Who was that NFL kicker who almost chopped his leg off with an axe his coach had placed in the locker room?

  60. How bout the gramatica brother who tore up his knee celebrating a fg?

  61. Looks like another loss. Whatever Tommy Hanson has done during the break, it was not good.

  62. Hold on, there has to be an error for AAG to be at 2nd. He hasnt touched 2B in a month.

  63. Why haven’t we used Conrad from the right side more? He was just fine from the right side last year. It seems that we already have the right handed bench bat.

  64. @158, Same. Not gladly, but more willing for sure. And not even by much. Sigh, why can’t we just get good players for free?

    Nice day for Heyward.

  65. 158—I’d much rather trade Vizcaino than either of the other two. Between Minor and Delgado, I’d prefer to keep Minor if Lowe is dealt and Delgado if Lowe is kept.

  66. @158, to say the least. Objectively, Beltran is as good a hitter as is available, and a creditable defender. Resting Chipper two days a week, and Prado/Heyward one day a week each plus PH duty will give him plenty of work.

  67. I think the Braves agree with you, Stu. I’d Lowe only gets moved (in season) if one of the farther-away pitchers is dealt for a bat.

    If its Minor or Beachy, no way they move Lowe.

    If you trade Minor, our 6th starter now, then Teheran becomes 6th and Delgado 7th. In the offseason you might still move Lowe, moving Teheran into the rotation, and Delgado to 6th, and we’re still as deep as most clubs. Just need next years Roderigo Lopez for emergencies.

  68. I think the Braves agree with you, Stu. I’d Lowe only gets moved (in season) if one of the farther-away pitchers is dealt for a bat.

    If its Minor or Beachy, no way they move Lowe.

    If you trade Minor, our 6th starter now, then Teheran becomes 6th and Delgado 7th. In the offseason you might still move Lowe, moving Teheran into the rotation, and Delgado to 6th, and we’re still as deep as most clubs. Just need next years Roderigo Lopez for emergencies.

  69. Any improvements would be nice, but if we don’t get a CF that can hit, we are not serious actors. That’s the glaring hole.

  70. @154

    Where are you reading this? The only place I’ve seen this on in @pgammons on twitter, which i think is fake. @pgammo is the real peter gammons on twitter. Could be wrong though.

  71. Gammons is an analyst on MLB Network.

    Minor for two months of Beltran would be a pretty bad trade.

  72. Nice to come home from work and see this. I was listening to the radio broadcast off and on, and I swear those guys never give the freaking score.

    Don’t get me wrong I like the radio broadcast for the most part, but you’d think they’d sprinkle in an update on the score a couple of times a half inning. Is that too much to ask?

  73. With Prado back and CJ soon and maybe Uggla back we should not mortgage future for someone who does not play CF. Medlin and Moylan will help too.

  74. Freddie has an OPS over 1 in July. Though I thought he’d do better than what many were predicting I can’t say I expected this from him yet.

  75. Didn’t care for that Brothers fellow. Nope, not one bit. Let’s O’Ventbrel this thing and get the hell out of this horror show with a split.

  76. Schafer, welcome to your future as a late inning defensive replacement.

    I guess I don’t care about score on the radio anymore because I rarely travel where I can’t get the score with an app.

  77. I just think Bourn is the best fit for this team. He won’t cost a ton, gets on base, and he plays good defense. He’s pretty much what we hope Schafer can be now that his power’s gone.

    No way should we give up a legit prospect for Beltran for 2 months when he can’t play center. Pence would be better but I’d rather not have to outbid the Phillies, cause he’s just not worth half the farm system.

  78. I don’t know how I’d feel about Minor for Beltran… seems steep, but Minor’s about to be lapped by the younger pitchers behind him. Especially with Gilmartin now in the system.

    Minor’s the guy I’d be most okay with moving. Beltran is the best bat available. But contract/position make him a bit of a square peg.

    He’d sure make us better, though. Identical slash line to McCann this year..

  79. The fact that it’s within the division is another reason not to give up a top-flight prospect for a two-month rental who we’re sitting here trying to come up with a way to start four games a week. Are we going to start from scratch on the CF issue AGAIN next spring?

  80. The thought of a Braves prospect possibly being successful for the Mets makes me sick to my stomach.

  81. @183,

    I think the reason that Minor is associated with it is that the Mets are paying salary (or a lot of it). So “contract” is not an issue. “Position” is, unless Fregosi thinks Beltran can play center as well as McLouth the rest of the way.

  82. Rival execs called the asking price for Pence “prohibitive.” I wonder if they were asking for Teheran.

  83. The Angels watched Beltran in the spring & decided he wasn’t capable of playing CF, so they traded for Vernon Wells instead.

    The Mets basically told local media the same thing about Beltran & then didn’t play him one inning in CF all year (Pagan, Hairston & Pridie doing the honors).

    Now, according to Jon Heyman, the team claims that Beltran can play center, “if pressed.”


  84. I don’t think anyone expects him to play CF. Simply put, if there is no CF available for a price the Braves would be willing to pay, should they do nothing or acquire a corner OF? If your answer is the latter, Beltran is as good a choice as any, presuming he would come significantly cheaper than Pence, and still bring quality defense, and he’s a switch hitter with very good splits both ways.

    Whether Minor is too much to give is another question.

  85. It has not been a good day to be a Tommy Hanson, Jhoulys Chacin, and Carlos Gonzalez fantasy owner.

  86. Anyone tried out Spotify yet? I’m pleasantly surprised by it so far. It’s filling the Lala void nicely. Just wish they had Zeppelin.

  87. I really hope the puffing up of Schafer in the media is posturing for a trade. I think convincing Houston to take him (& hopefully someone besides one of the big 4 arms) for Bourne is the best bet, short term and long term. If the team us going to trade one from Minor, Teheran, Arodys or Delgado they will get much better return in the offseason. Pence is not worth one of those guys imho. Of course like everyone here seems to be resigned to already, Philly will get him for nothing.

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