We forfeited the game or something, I dunno. But I just don’t want to talk about it at all.
339 Comments
Advertisement
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
We forfeited the game or something, I dunno. But I just don’t want to talk about it at all.
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
What happened yesterday?
That’s the spirit!
There was a game? I thought it was televised batting practice to tune up for the Home Run Derby tonight…..
Hey, we’re 5 games ahead.
Yeah…forfeit. That’s the ticket.
What’s the latest word on Moylan and Medlen? I heard Medlen had a setback. A move for RH bullpen help has to be coming right?
I think it rained really hard yesterday in Philly. The team bus ran out of gas. They had a flat. The tux didn’t come back from the cleaners. Bethany took a day off from her running. Earthquakes, volcanoes, dogs and cats living together! Mass Hysteria!
#1 – Lowe, Gearrin, and Proctor happened. Our 3 worst pitchers against Cole Hamels is a bad matchup. Cut Proctor and bring LISP back until a trade can be made.
1 Ian Desmond WSH .572
2 Casey McGehee MIL .594
3 Yuniesky Betancourt MIL .598
4 Miguel Tejada SF .601
5 Jason Bartlett SD .601
6 Omar Infante FLA .601
7 Alex Gonzalez ATL .607
8 Dan Uggla ATL .621
I don’t know if we should be happy that Uggla has started to distance himself from the absolute worst in the league or sad that Gonzalez is rapidly approaching them.
I don’t know about you guys but I watched the most thrilling game I have ever seen. Of course it was the U.S. WNT scoring a tying goal in the 122nd minute of a hard fought, filled with drama and controversy, display of fantastic athleticism. Then winning the damn thing in a shoot out. Did the Braves play yesterday?
Bethany, if you did run your streak hasn’t ended. All the Karma went to the U.S. women in Germany.
8—Mostly happy. Uggla’s paid for his bat; AGony is not.
Of course, it would be nice if AGony would be forbidden from batting higher than 7th.
“Earthquakes, volcanoes, dogs and cats living together! Mass Hysteria!”
Nobody steps on a church in my town!
Wait. Fredi totally went with Cory Gearrin yesterday. I’ve been told by experts that nothing bad could have happened if he’d just go with Cory Gearrin…
Well, nothing worse than what Proctor provides at least.
I think the Braves crossed the streams yesterday.
I’ve been told by experts that nothing bad could have happened if he’d just go with Cory Gearrin…
That is definitely an honest representation of the arguments made by those proclaiming MRSA’s idiocy.
I’m not in favor of trading for bullpen help. Drop Proctor, bring Lisp back, give Gearrin a few more shots, and make do until Moylan and/or Medlen come back. Then bolster the pen with Teheran and Delgado in September. Only trade for a RH reliever if it becomes clear that neither Moylan nor Medlen can make it back in time to help.
If Proctor struck out four yesterday, he’d be on this team until 2014. It’s a blessing in disguise that he got lit up too.
16—Assuming our elite guys stay healthy, you’re right that that will be enough. Not sure that’s an assumption I’d make, though. I’d love to add another big-time arm to the ‘pen for insurance.
Proctor in July –
4.1IP 9H 7ER 3HR 2BB 4K 14.54ERA 2.54WHIP .429BAA
They’ll just write it off as a bad stretch. He has given up 10ER in his last 10 appearances.
#16, #18 – If EOF wasnt having back troubles Id agree. There’s no guarantees with him or Ventbrel with the amount of their workloads either.
I like how MLB is emailing me a reminder to watch the HR derby tonight.
Don’t forget we get Moylan back, that might be the big arm we add.
Halladay starting for the NL. Lame.
21—He’s coming off of major back surgery. That’s another assumption I wouldn’t make.
Sure, if someone else gets hurt a trade might be necessary. But I don’t think you make a trade in anticipation of injury. Trade a prospect to solve a short-term problem, not a short-term hypothetical. The marginal cost is too great.
Dunno where I heard this, but aren’t the ASG starting pitchers required to pitch 2 innings?
If that’s the case, I’m fine with JJ only pitching one.
BTW, Stu, forgot to ask: How was U2?
23—Guess it depends on the cost. I don’t think it would cost that much to add some insurance to the relief corps.
@16: Don’t see any particular reason to believe that Teheran or Delgado will pitch out of the big league pen, ever. Did Hanson? Did Minor? Did Beachy? Either JT will be called on to replace an injured starter down the stretch, or he’ll be left in AAA to polish his skills for a full-time starting role next season.
Just saying what I would do, not what I’m predicting will happen.
Oh, but it would be quite exciting to have Teheran or (my preference) Vizcaino coming out of the pen in the playoffs, David Price-in-’08 style. If the front office wanted to, we could go into September without a single below average pitcher on the staff. Screw delayed gratification from pitching prospects.
Does anyone know anything about Brandon Drury? He’s acting like a legitimate prospect as a really young person in Danville.
@24 I think only the starters are required to go 2 innings.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Vizcaino or Delgado out of the pen. Hell, there’s no way Vizcaino’s ever going to be a major league starter anyway. Might as well convert him now.
Since the ASG now counts for home field, and Halladay is not part of the Giants, why would Halladay not pitch six or seven innings? It costs Bochy nothing to wear out a Phillies starter, he’s the best pitcher in the league, and it might be important to him come October.
I would love to see Halladay pitch 7 innings.
It costs Bochy nothing to wear out a Phillies starter
It would cost him dearly in the reputation department.
Would be awesome, though…
#28 Service clock considerations? Yeah, team should put its best 25 on the team but ……. just asking.
“Rapture” sighting yesterday afternoon: Dozens of neatly stacked Braves uniforms with Nike tennis shoes in Turner Field’s outfield.
#8- it makes me happy that the guy we traded for Uggla is below him on the list. i know we’re paying Danny more than we would a utility man, but he’s got plenty of time to make good on that 60 mil. Still love that trade, as Uggla on the open market (prior to this year) would have been a much harder guy to get.
Jurrjens got screwed; but i’ll be cheering for halladay and co. we gotta get that home field advantage. we might get to use it this year! maybe bri can get the winning hit again.
Regarding Gearrin, I think the consensus around here is that he’s better than Proctor.
Obviously going out and getting shelled doesn’t help those who supported him. But in his defense, if he was permitted to touch a baseball from time to time, he might have done better when he was finally called upon. Also, going to him when 5 of the next 6 batters are lefthanded is not doing him any favors.
I believe that in our current position, he belongs on the club. Proctor should be cut and Gearrin should get his innings, and Martinez should be recalled for multi-inning situations. That really is not a role that should be occupied by a sidearmer. Most sidearmers become sidearmers as a kind of last-resort; they aren’t effective enough, so they try a hand at deception so they can become same-handed specialists. I don’t know anything about Gearrin’s history, what caused him to be a sidearmer, but you can still assume that throwing sidearm, his strong suit is going to be facing righthanded batters and getting groundballs.
But back to Sam’s point; I didn’t read a lot of people here talking up Gearrin as anything more than ‘better than Proctor.’ Over at Capitol Avenue Club, however, you actually read things like “Moylan and Gearrin are essentially interchangeable,” and other ridiculousness. But I guess that’s the kind of analysis you’ll get from ‘a baseball blog for intellectuals.’ Sam should probably go over there and argue with people, he might have more fun… Actually, Peter would probably call him names and ban him the first time he disagreed with him.
@31- I’m confused. Why won’t Vizcaino ever be a ML starter? He’s having a good year in AA (more Ks than IP as a 20-yo), and apparently scouting reports are positive. Do you just doubt that he’ll develop a 3rd pitch? Do you just think the Braves have too much good pitching?
I don’t know if it would hurt Bochy’s rep. If MLB doesn’t want Halladay used for seven innings, they shouldn’t make home field in the World Series dependent on the game. Clearly, they want managers to try to win the game. In the case of the NL this year, that probably means having Halladay pitch seven to nine innings. He’s been consistently incredible this year.
Yes, I think the Gearrin advocacy has been along the lines of “We’re not positive he will fail”.
Regarding Gearrin, I think the consensus around here is that he’s better than Proctor.
Regarding Sam Hutcheson, I think he would rather eat Meow Mix than join a Braves Journal consensus on the bullpen.
@35 It’s a valid consideration, but if the Rays, masters of gaming the service time system, would do it with Price, I can’t imagine the Braves refusing to do it on service time grounds themselves. The benefits of increasing your chances of winning a title have to outweigh the potential benefits in the 6th or 7th year of team control over a pitcher or two. Increased attendance during a playoff run and the year after would more than make up the difference in Arb3 and Arb4 costs for one or two guys, I would think, plus you could still just keep them down an extra month next year.
@40- This is just an exercise right? Just feigning to dumb to make a point about how ridiculous the all-star game/world series home field advantage thing is?
Because if you don’t think that using some other manager’s pitcher for 7 innings in the All-Star game wouldn’t lead an outcry from every columnist at every paper the country, then you’re being intentionally obtuse.
The commentators would be all over it. Following every single pitch, beginning in the top of the 4th, they’d say “I can’t believe he’s still out there. Where is Bruce Bochy? Boy, Bochy’s going to have a lot of questions to answer following the game.”
The AP headlines wouldn’t even reference the winner or loser of the game. The front of every sports page would read some variation of “Halladay Left In To Throw 7.”
Yes, baseball has made this a joke. They expect all of the players and the managers to play this in the middle; to sort of, play hard one-handed, if you will. Yes it’s transparent, yes we all see through it. But no, no one would consider it reasonable for a manager to actually pull out all the stops to try to win it.
@42- Hahaha, yes. But I wasn’t suggesting he was part of the consensus, or inviting him to join it. I was just pointing out the intellectual dishonesty of his comment @12. No one said anything like that. The majority here think something along the lines of “I don’t know how good Gearrin is, but I’m sure he’s better than Proctor.”
@35, @43 – I’m not positive, but I thought a player didn’t get service time for a major league assignment that begins AFTER Sept. 1. Meaning, since Freddie’s been here all year, he’ll get credit for September. But if Vizcaino comes up on Sept. 1, he won’t get any service time. (I don’t know if he’s on the 40 man, though.)
I could be completely wrong on that though. I also am unclear about Teheran or Delgado. My impression is that even though they reached the big leagues before Sept 1, since they were sent back down, they can be recalled on or after Sept 1 and receive no additional service time. Someone who knows, where am I wrong here?
I think there’s actually a three-inning cap on how long a pitcher can be used in the ASG.
have you guys seen this video of the soccer game yesterday, with Gus Johnson dubbed over the call? I’m still laughing and I hate soccer.
In case it’s keeping you up nights, here are the ASG lineups. BTW, The Best Catcher in Baseball is hitting 5th for the NL:
AL
CF Curtis Granderson
SS Asdrubal Cabrera
1B Adrian Gonzalez
RF Jose Bautista
LF Josh Hamilton
3B Adrian Beltre
DH David Ortiz
2B Robinson Cano
C Alex Avila
P Jered Weaver
NL
2B Rickie Weeks
DH Carlos Beltran
CF Matt Kemp
1B Prince Fielder
C Brian McCann, “BCIB”
RF Lance Berkman
LF Matt Holliday
SS Troy Tulowitzki
3B Scott Rolen
P Roy Halladay
I’m a little surprised to see ol’ Ass-Dribble batting second with Cano batting 7th, but what the hey.
@49 – I presume Cano was bumped to the 7th spot to avoid having a run of left-handed batters at the top of the AL lineup. Then again, moving Cano to 7 means the last 3 AL starters are all lefties, so it doesn’t really do much (except perhaps giving Cabrera an extra AB at the expense of Cano).
Hanson fWAR: 2.2 (103.1 IP)
Lowe fWar: 1.9 (113 IP)
Jurrjens fWar: 2.3 (110.2 IP)
Hudson fWar: 1.9 (113.1 IP)
Beachy fWar: 1.3 (67.1 IP)
So Fangraphs would have me believe that Hanson and Jurrjens have been a little bit better than Lowe this year, but only by a few decimal points, and that Lowe and Hudson have been almost exactly of equal value. Fangraphs’ spell over me (at least regarding the value of pitching) has just been broken. I feel a profound sense of freedom and the ability to once again know joy.
Things I have Learned From the WWC So Far: Hope Solo is hot. And apparently quite good at soccer.
The B-R version thinks much more highly of Jurrjens and Hanson.
Hey look – you don’t have to be a stats geek to hate on JJ – http://www.freep.com/article/20110708/COL08/107080433/Drew-Sharp-Jair-Jurrjens-wouldn-t-an-All-Star-Tigers
Maddux rarely broke 90 – he must have sucked…
54 — That guy just writes things as facts without bothering to check if they are actually true. I wish I were good/felt like writing an FJM style critique of that article.
For example, “Jurrjens is no Smoltz”
Through age 25, Jurrjens has a 127 ERA+ and Smoltz had a 109 ERA+. He’s right, Jurrjens was much better than Smoltz at this point in their careers. Though granted Smoltz threw a lot more innings but that was due to the time period/lack of bullpen specialists.
(Obviously Smoltz became a truly outstanding pitcher in 1995 and beyond, while we don’t know how Jurrjens will do at age 28 and beyond.)
51 – I’m not thrilled with fangraphs’ valuation of pitchers either–it’s entirely dependent upon FIP. But there really is no consensus on how to value pitching (or defense), so it’s best to look at WAR as an approximation.
Also, Lowe is still benefiting from an excellent April. His performance since then, which is coloring most of our views right now, has been mediocre at best.
83 All Stars and yet Tommy Hanson isn’t one.
Venters and Kimbrel AS interviews. Kimbrel looks like my little brother.
@58 – Oh I completely agree with the usefulness of WAR, but FIP-based WAR is crap as far as I’m concerned. Give me baseball reference’s version, as Mac suggests. Fangraphs uses wOBA for hitter WAR, correct? So why give guys credit for hitting triples but not for declining to give them up?
Can ESPN not find anyone better than CHRIS BERMAN for this gig EVERY SINGLE YEAR?
Jesus.
Ugh.. Another year, and another HR Derby I have to watch on mute.
You have a problem with Chris “I swear to god I wish he would get eaten by a” Berman?
@62, It sounds like they’re just putting a mic in the crowd and hoping for the best. Terrible announcing.
I always thought the Home Run Derby was tailor-made for Chris Berman. Every carnival needs a barker.
Douchebag alert.
Did any of you guys see those videos that were leaked of Berman acting like a maniac during the commercial breaks of various shows he was hosting? Somebody at ESPN leaked them to youtube and then ESPN had a fit and had them pulled. They tell you all you need to know about Berman.
http://www.jokeroo.com/videos/funny/pissed-off-chris-berman.html
wasn’t too hard to find…
@66, we’re actually just past the 10th anniversary of his entrance on the national douchebag stage
Actually just rereading that made me sore at Bochy all over again. Jerk.
A bunch of my Cards friends are getting sick of Colby Rasmus + his dad. Said they’d trade him for JJ in a second…
This is probably a stupid question…
But does anyone know if liquid dish detergent works on laundry in a washing machine? I’m out of laundry detergent and I really don’t feel like going to the store right now.
Chris Berman is a reminder why ESPN is not the Worldwide Leader. But just once after a home run he should yell, “You’re with me, leather!”
71: I really doubt it. More likely, it will fill your laundry machine with bubbles and fail to clean your clothes.
Re: Tommy Hanson
I remain pissed and I’ve thrown the thought out on Twitter/Facebook that the Jurrjens/Hanson snubs, might be some kind of petty vengence by Bochy at the Braves over the McDowell incident.
I mean, it’s utterly INSANE that Kevin Correia made the team over Hanson.
@71
Yeah, I tried that once when I first moved out… big mess.
I’m talking about the other way around. Dishwasher detergent in the washing machine for my laundry.
@74- That was a player vote weird-ass rule. What pisses me off/the reason Hanson is at home is because Bochy decided to put 4 of his pitchers on the roster regardless of their relative merit.
At this point though, I just think he’s so anxious to fellate Halladay over the next few days that everything else is an ancillary concern.
@75
Yeah it works fine. I do it all the time when I’m out of laundry detergent.
@75 – I’d try it. Dish detergent is pretty tame with the suds, and there are dishwasher attachments for hats (despite the thought of eating off a plate washed in diluted head oil being disgusting), so the precedent has been set for washing fabrics in dish detergent. At the very least, it shouldn’t hurt anything.
#71 – If you want a laundry room full of suds, feel free
It may cause more bubbles than laundry detergent but not by much. Like I said I do it all the time and I’ve never had any problems and my clothes always get clean.
@74, to be fair, weren’t Lincecum and Wilson voted in by the players and managers?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100704&content_id=11909018&vkey=news_sf&fext=.jsp&c_id=sf
Thanks guys. Good to know, I guess.
Though I pussed out and suffered through wal-mart trip instead.
I guess I’m committing heresy here, but I don’t really have a problem with Halladay starting the game. I do think Hanson should be there, but I’m glad for him to rest. I only wish Kimbrel and Venters could get some rest too…
@81- Split the difference; Wilson was players while Vogelsong, Cain, and Lincecum were Bochy
To quote the immortal Tim Hudson: “still a douche”
Might have already been posted, but Bradley’s latest article is actually a pretty cathartic read (http://bit.ly/pEpOoO). I’ll always be on board with AL-is-the-superior-league backlash, and I’m feeling especially defensive of Jurrjens these days after spending too much time at Capitol Avenue Club.
Adam Milligan needs a mulligan–he was 0 for 5 with 5 Ks tonight for Lynchburg.
spending too much time at Capitol Avenue Club
I just skimmed through the thread about the sustainability of JJ’s current performance. Peter makes some excellent points, similar to those which have been made here. I do wonder whether he’s painting himself into a rhetorical corner, requiring him to claim vindication if JJ should pitch poorly in the second half. It’s a small and unenviable victory, having such a prophecy come true. I’d rather cheer a good result, this being sports and all.
Liquid dish detergent is similiar to woolite. I use it for my wool socks. Don’t use too much or for tire tracks.
I’d pick Lincecum for the ASG over Hanson. Cain’s selection ended up not mattering, as his slot was eventually filled by Kimbrel anyway.
Really, the criticism is Vogelsong over Hanson. While that objectively seems inexcusable, this is far from the first time a manager’s loaded the team with his guys. Sure, it’s kind of weird to have someone with Hanson’s numbers off the team, but since when has any baseball honor been completely appropriately given?
On the other hand, 109 strikeouts in 103 innings WTF?
Then again, Anibal Sanchez has very similar numbers to Hanson, he was also not selected, and no one is claiming Bochy has some kind of Marlins vendetta.
The Bochy vengeance argument is pretty silly. First of all, we haven’t yet locked down whether it’s retribution for the McDowell incident or for us winning the playoff game Hanson started. And if it’s the latter, shouldn’t it be Brian Wilson being left off? He had much more to do with the Giants losing that game than Hanson. (And yes, I’m aware Wilson was voted in by the players.)
And anyway, Bochy is an even-tempered, well-respected manager whose reputation suggests he wouldn’t come anywhere close to doing something like that. Why is it necessary to make him into a ridiculous pantomime villain?
Hanson deserved a spot, but didn’t get one because Bochy wanted to take his own guys instead. It’s not the first time it’s happened, and it certainly won’t be the last. Hell, it probably happened to someone else when Bobby Cox was managing the team.
Hanson got lit up in Game 2 of the NLDS.
If the All Star Game featured a bunt derby, we’d win for sure.
People like to spin conspiracy theories, and they need villains to explain things. It’s not that complicated: Bochy feels a little more accountable to his guys, and anyway, he sees them a lot more. The Braves aren’t at the center of the universe. Nobody is out to get them. Making assumptions about Bochy’s character based on the AS selection process, which didn’t even go that badly for the Braves, is hysterical.
He did put Kimbrel on the roster. The Braves are well represented at the All Star game. I think Hanson will get his all star shot. It’s not the end of the world.
Cards’ reporter says that Rasmus “might” be on the chopping block for one, maybe 2, starting pitchers. Will they take a CF back?
McLouth, Lowe, and Delgado for Rasmus? We would obviously have to chip in quite a bit of money, but it’s worth a shot, right?
http://tinyurl.com/5vecd2s
Can you imagine if we had picked Rasmus instead of Devine (who was a perfectly cromulent choice as it turns out, but still) in a draft that also yielded Escobar, Hanson and Schafer.
For that offer, yes. But, its not going to be close to getting it done.
I still don’t see how the team moves Lowe until about a year from now.
I’ve started to flinch a little every time I see Escobar’s name. It was clearly a bad decision at the time, but it’s turned into something awful. The problem is that I still just don’t understand it. Are we supposed to believe that he was such an issue that no amount of counseling or management could help him, but John Farrell is doing just fine with him? There’s just such a huge difference between .800 and .600.
A firing reflects just as poorly on management as it does on the employee. I never understood why many folks don’t get this.
Two words: frosted tips.
Yunel wasnt playing here and there is no guarantees that the situation wouldnt have become worse. Yunel is by far a better offensive player over AAG, but he checked out. When you are making gestures towards the official scorer in front of 30,000 people you arent in your right mind.
This is a pretty good reminder…
http://www.foxsportssouth.com/07/15/10/In-the-End-Escobar-Needed-to-Be-Traded/landing.html?blockID=271638&feedID=4318
Not to rehash, but the decision to trade him was fine – it was when and for whom that was egregious.
Apparently, he still is a bit of an issue for the Jays — though not as much as he was, thanks in part to the influence of Jose Bautista. If you can trust the Jays’ beat writers, it seems like Mac was on to something when he wrote about Yunel and culture shock. It doesn’t exonerate the Braves from doing a poor job, but there it is.
I dislike the rationality about Bochy. The Giants blow. They don’t even know who the Best Catcher in Baseball is. How can anyone respect a group that dumb?
Bochy is their manager. He thinks Ryan Vogelsong is more deserving to be an AS than Tommy Hanson. When you read it, it looks even more absurd. Obviously, he’s an idiot.
He’s west coast version, if you will, of the type of idiot who says Yadier Molina is as good of a catcher as McCann because of his defense. That type of lunacy.
@98- There’d be no Louth.
I wonder if Schafer/Minor would be a fair beginning to a Rasmus trade?
@107 In my uneducated opinion, it would take a lot more.
Getting Rasmus only makes sense for the Braves. He’s from “Braves Country” and the Braves badly need a CF. If he was available and I was looking to use my starting pitching surplus to bring in a bat, I would be on the phone with the Cards until they got a restraining order against me.
Not saying we should give up the world for him, but if you are going to make a trade and he was available, you have got to investigate that.
Yeah. Probably. But the Cards might think “That Schafer kid might succeed here. We hire coaches instead of kumquats.”
I know the Braves won’t, but I’d give up Teheran and Minor for Rasmus.
It was clearly a bad decision at the time, but it’s turned into something awful.
I’ve actually become a little more OK with it, over time. 1) Yunel remains a douche. 2) Pastornicky appears to be quite useful.
I don’t think it was unreasonable for the Braves to believe that Escobar would grow up and act like a pro at some point. Most players, no matter their skill level, tend to do it.
This isn’t an APBA draft league. Human interactions matter.
IMO, the troubles with Escobar were almost entirely on Escobar.
REWIND: Can you tell that it’s the all-star break? We’ve defaulted to Yunel talk! Yikes.
Yunel is a douche, but he’s much better at baseball than AAG, and his contract is a feather in the cap of Alex Anthopoulos.
I like Rasmus, but lord, this lineup is already full of guys who can’t hit lefties. Uggla’s continuing reverse split hasn’t been helping either.
Rasmus – .838OPS vs LH compared to .708OPS vs RH. Out of all the rumored available CF’rs (Bourn, Upton, Rasmus, Byrd, Crisp, DeJesus) he has the highest OPS vs LH’rs. He hit lefties at an .270/.349/.461 clip in 2010 and a .265/.375/.463 clip this year. He’s so much better than McLouth/Schafer that you cant really even compare them. Id overpay.
Oh come on. For all of Alex’s flaws, he’s cheap.
So is meth.
Pastornicky really does look like he’s got the potential to pretty much fix the Yunel situation, and AAG has indeed been cheap and kind of ok. I remain sad that we gave away Tim Collins for a bag of balls.
I dont get too upset about trading relievers. He’s got big command issues right now also. Ankiel gave us a nice memory in the playoffs and played good defense. Farns sucked at all times.
Meth is only cheap because of all those negative externalities.
AAG has been fantastic in the field. I can live with his bat, but it would be a lot easier to deal with in the 8 hole.
Speaking of meth, I wrapped up season 3 of Breaking Bad last night instead of watching the Derby. What a great show that is, if you like to get your bleak on.
I may give Terriers a shot next. Has anyone seen it? It’s supposed to be good
That story on Rasmus names Tampa. Boo!
I will say, though, that now seems like the perfect time to trade for Rasmus. He’s slumping and his value is a bit lower than it would otherwise be–and he could be had for a lot less now than he would have been last season at this time. But he is left handed.
Whatever happens, I would like to see the Braves add a right-handed reliever, utility infielder, and outfielder before the deadline.
Sansho – Terriers is a great show. I was heartbroken when it wasn’t renewed for a 2nd season… such a shame.
And regarding AAG – in all fairness, he’s been pretty much exactly as advertised (unlike, say, McLouth). The only problem is that 1) he’s in the midst of a long cold streak right now, and 2) Yunel is a far superior player. We’ll never know if Yunel would have gotten back on track had he stayed in Atlanta, but the way the trade was handled by the Braves (limiting ourselves to teams who could send back a MLB-ready SS) virtually guaranteed we’d be getting a relatively poor return for Yunel. If Pastornicky can develop enough power to survive as a MLB regular, the Braves will have come out pretty well in the deal considering the circumstances.
And on Rasmus – he has a significant reverse split this season, but in 2010 he was better versus righties (OPS of .875 vs. .810 against lefties) and in 2009, his rookie year, Rasmus was hopeless in limited ABs versus lefties (.474). Overall his career OPS is about .700 vs. lefties, .800 vs. righties.
Adam, he’s hitting lefties better than righties. Check this out.
VS LH
Rasmus .838OPS
Nate .486OPS
Schafer .423OPS
Also: “It was clearly a bad decision at the time, but it’s turned into something awful.”
I tend to agree with this. He’s back to being a 4-win player, and now has a wonderfully-team friendly contract for the next few seasons. As for AAG being what we expected, I think he has been worse. Yes, we knew that he would be an all-glove/no-hit shortstop, but I don’t think anyone predicted a .269 wOBA. I mean, that’s insane. Hopefully this is just a cold streak, but if he keeps it up he’ll end up being closer to replacement level than league average.
If we get Rasmus I’ll be freaking ecstatic, but I get the feeling that it’s going to be Quentin instead.
124 – Those numbers are horrifying. Clearly, Nate either needs a platoon partner or just a replacement.
123,124 – I didn’t know about his reverse platoon split-Rasmus would be an amazing get. He seems to be showing improvement, which makes sense, and whatever the case he’s much, much better than the options we now have.
Expanding the scope of ‘regrettable decisions’ further, it’s quite likely that the Braves would be better off today if they had kept both Yunel and Kelly Johnson. That said, I have the feeling that Cox (and many of the players) were completely fed up with Yunel so keeping him was not a real option at the time. Now, if Yunel has been putting up his usual .800 OPS last year, none of this would’ve happened. Yunel’s poor performance for the Braves last season both increased his childish behavior (seemed like more than previous years) and decreased the Braves’ tolerance for that behavior.
I can’t be too upset at no longer having to root for Yunel. AAG has been better than advertised with the glove, and while he kept his OBP near .300 he was a winning ballplayer in this low-scoring environment. But has he ever fallen right off the table offensively. Hopefully a few days off from the grind will help him relax a little bit.
good grief, check out this from DOB…
Some here would give up both Minor, a 23-yr-old lefty who’s a recent high-first-round pick and could be a long-term rotation member, and Schafer, who’s 24 and has just 380 major league PAs, in exchange for Rasmus, an OF with a .259 career avg and .333 OBP in 1,400 PAs?
The Minor and Schafer part of that is ridiculous, but I certainly wouldn’t give up any of our higher-level prospects for Rasmus. He simply has not done anything to justify the ridiculously high opinion of him on this site. I agree with DOB in general principle, though his threshold is a bit too low in this case. There are a bunch of things I would give up Minor and/or Schafer for.
#121
Terriers one (and done) season was excellent – I strongly recommend it. I tend to be a fan of the Cable Drama – Breaking Bad, Justified, Mad Men, Sons of Anarchy, The Walking Dead – all great shows. (and if you haven’t seen “The Shield”, one of the best, ever).
AAG/Esco debate – why are we still having it? I will second ububba – this isn’t APBA and the clubhouse does matter. And AAG has played great D and provided occassional hitting. The bottomline is he’s a stopgap until Pastornicky.
Rasmus – Stu, you’d really trade Tehran? Man, we need a center fielder who can really hit in the worst way, but not Tehran. Minor, sure, plus other pieces. I would love LOVE for the Cardinals to take a “package” that included D. Lowe and Mclouth. If only they were that dumb. sigh.
@130
Like the Cards would ask for more than those two. If that was all it took I would drive them to the airport.
My barber says we are in the Michael Bourne market.
#130
We can debate Rasmus, but he’s A) a major upgrade and B) we are so loaded with pitching, that we can part with a pitcher like Minor who’s “ceiling” is as a #3 starter (at best).
I’d rather have Rasmus than Bourn. Bourn’s got a career OPS+ of 87(!) and last year and the year before were 97 and 90. This year he’s at 111 and it makes him look like a star.
Rasmus’ worst season, his rookie season, was 89. Last year was 134(!!) This year he’s at 109 and it makes him look like a disappointment.
I’ll take Bourn, because he’s better than Schafer, but we’d still need a right-handed, lefty-mashing corner OF (Juan Rivera? Ryan Ludwick?) to stick on the bench.
If we picked up Colby Rasmus, especially in light of that reverse platoon split displayed above, I’d actually be okay with it being the only “big” move. (Still want a better-than-Lugo IF, and a better-than-Linebrink RHP.)
130 – He remains both a douche and an ignoramus.
@135…Juan Rivera dealt to Dodgers today for Playertobe NamedLater.
@137- The Dodgers. Huh.
Something to keep in mind re Rasmus–he’s now getting more expensive (arb eligible after this season iirc) which reduces the attractiveness of acquiring him.
*sigh* The universe needs to stop teasing me with hopes of obtaining Matt Kemp.
And DOB needs to stop being such a freaking moron.
@130, got a link to that bon mot?
Interesting piece by Poz:
http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/07/ducks-on-pond.html#more
Chipper leads all of baseball with runners on base. If only the Bravos had a decent leadoff hitter…
Hmm, Rivera would have fit that RH OF hole nicely. Career vs LHP: 291/337/501.
spike, here you go.
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/07/10/its-lowe-vs-hamels-in-the-series-and-first-half-finale/?cp=23#comment-1215175
145 – And still, there are no words.
Some here would want to trade a pitching prospect and a failed outfielder for a center fielder with power under team control for three more years. Who are those morons?
@145, then follows it up with “Braves can do better than [Rasmus] in a trade for [Minor], or a package with him included. If he goes somewhere and develops into a solid lefty starter for the next 7-10 years, you’d like to have received a strong return for him”
What a f’ing chowderhead.
And then follows that up with this pearl….
“Just for the record, AtlYnkHrt: I had no problem whatsoever with trading Morton (and Gorkys Hernandez) for McLouth. To the contrary, I thought it was a very good trade for the Braves, as did just about everybody who wrote or commented about it in both cities and around baseball at that time.
McLouth’s stats at the time dwarf Rasmus’ current stats. McLouth had 76 freakin’ extra-base hits in 2008, including 46 doubles, 26 homers, 23 stolen bases, 94 RBIs, .853 OPS.”
At that point, I had to stop. Ububba, I know you think he is a reasonable guy that has to do things because of his employers, but that is one of the most ignant things I’ve ever read.
See spike, I was trynig to do everyone a favor and then you just had to ask for that link.
He doesn’t agree. Big deal.
Of course, FWIW, I’d kidnap Schafer and Minor, put them in the trunk of my Honda, drive ’em to St. Louis & hand Rasmus a first-class Delta ticket back to the ATL.
But that’s just me.
@149, what are you seeing ridiculous in that statement? Maybe I’m not seeing the same thing. McLouth had better offensive numbers than Rasmus does now, although he was a couple of years older than Rasmus is. The McLouth trade seemed like a good trade at the time, just as a trade for Rasmus seems like a good trade for the now. It’s not exactly apples-to-apples, and I would argue that Minor is way riskier than Rasmus, but I get the point.
His prior statements way overvaluing Minor and undervaluing Rasmus are kind of silly, but, by itself, I see no problem with what you quoted.
Mclouth was a 27 yo with a 15M guaranteed contract . Rasmus is a 24yo not to arb yet. Ignoring age and pay to claim that well that’s all we gave for McClouth, so NO WAI is Rasmus worth Minor is either just plain stupid, or intellectually dishonest.
@152
agreed. The McLouth trade didn’t look bad on paper and probably won’t matter one way or another when Morton’s and Gorkys’ careers are over.
But the Rasmus, Minor, and Schafer statement…not smart.
@153, Oh, I see. I read it more as a “look what happened with the McLouth deal, and even I liked that one” paranoia. I can see your reading, and, yeah, it’s ridiculous if he meant it that way.
Wait, DOB sees MLB potential in Schafer?
And on the lighter side – ha!
Baseball Fans Excited For All-Star Matchup Between Best Available Non-Injured Players Willing To Play In Game
McLouth Age/fWAR:
23/.5
24/.1
25/1.6
26/3.9
27 pre-trade he had a really hot April and then got averager and averager until we got him.
Rasmus Age/fWAR:
22/2.8
23/4.3
24/1.6 so far
Rasmus was better in the year preceding the (hypothetical) trade despite being 3 years younger, and he’s never had a below average season while McLouth had one season out of 4 that was above average. The contract situations obviously favor Rasmus by quite a lot too.
I was pretty happy with the McLouth trade, but Rasmus would be worth quite a bit more, and Minor/Schafer would only be a little more valuable than the package we sent to Pittsburgh.
More! More! I heartily endorse the copying and pasting of more DOB chatter until real games start again this weekend.
We can only hope the Cardinals are as stupid as DOB.
We already know they’re just as Douchey…
Rasmus had a .354 BABIP last year, and has been resolutely average otherwise. Also, he’s a left-handed medium-power fly ball hitter, the exact type of hitter to whom Turner Field is so unforgiving. I don’t think he’d get swallowed up to the extent McLouth has, but he projects similarly enough to give me a slight chill. I wouldn’t make that trade.
Meanwhile, Bill James yesterday predicted an MVP Award in Carlos Quentin’s future….
Well, all we gave up was Charlie Morton and Gorkys Hernandez. Anybody who acts like they wouldn’t have done that deal at the time isn’t being honest with themselves. At worst, it’s gonna turn out as a wash for us, and that’s with McLouth performing at a worse level than even seemed possible at the time of the trade.
The good thing is there are a lot of possible CF upgrade (over what we have) out there.
@161 – A .354 BAbip isn’t that outlandish for a good hitter, and he’s 24. 24! He OPSed .860 as a 23 year old. He’s Heyward minus some plate discipline and age but plus a premium defensive position and lefty-mashing ability. If you could get in on the ground floor with a guy like that, I’d view it as worth the risk of him busting thanks to park effects.
The other premium about Rasmus is cost – somebody has to play CF for us, and for cheap, given the salary constraints of this team. Potentially overpaying in terms of prospects to get back a piece that fits into the clubs salary structure is huge in terms of flexibility to get other things that can be met only through the FA market as well as dealing with the current set of obligations.
A .354 BAbip isn’t that outlandish for a good hitter
Maybe not, but he’s only done it once, so the degree of his “goodness” remains an open question to me. The salary does matter, obviously.
I read somewhere that Bochy picked Vogelsong because he wanted someone who was just happy to be there to be the emergency extra inning guy. I don’t have a problem with that if true.
Kevin Correia? Come on.
@167 I imagine Hanson would have been pretty happy to be there.
Who is this tool bag on FOX blowing his load about the AL Team?
I don’t like Brian Wilson but I love what he just said about McCann. He’s completely right.
@168 – Yeah, I remember thinking it was ok, because Hanson would surely replace one of the inevitable dropouts.
Bruce Bochy has made a powerless enemy.
Man, f### tim mccarver and joe buck. God, I hope the NL can somehow avoid embarrassing itself with this inferior lineup and bullpen. Ugh. And poor jose bautista, not even on their radar for first half AL mvp. Guess he must suck.
Glad to see the gentlemen’s agreement on the play at home there.
#173 – no kidding, Pete Rose flashbacks we dont need.
Wow, I hate Prince but that was awesome
Prince’s ball hit the top of the wall going out, and coming back.
How does someone not like Brian Wilson? That dude’s weird and hilarious.
Totally incapable of getting outs against the AL, clearly.
@178, He’s an enormous douche.
Why do you say that, Rob?
Where are the SF pitchers? You stack the roster with them and don’t throw them? I did not want to see Kimbrel or Venters. Where the fuck is Vogelsong, asshole? Don’t trust him, perhaps? Than don’t put him on the fucking team.
The beard. And personality. And the way he talks. Pretty much everything I’ve seen.
Keith Law:
“Kimbrel and Venters to pitch tonight, so apparently this is just like the other 162 Atlanta games”
http://twitter.com/#!/keithlaw/status/90973820231499776
I just looked up “mephitic.” I thought it was some word Mac made up, meant to conjure the image of an unholy beast that was part Met and part Phillie.
It is not. Not exactly.
Yeah, I was really hoping Venters wouldn’t get used. But there he is, warming up.
@183
Well, okay, that’s pretty funny.
Did Mccarver really just imply that the AL is only losing because they’re missing their top pitchers? Not sure why I’m surprised. Geez what a scourge he is.
Bell should have slid across the basepath, no one would get past that to score.
Can’t believe Bochy went to Venters w a 4 run lead. That’s what Linebrink is for. Wait, what?
Wow…Venters couldn’t have done any better with his appearance. First-pitch groundout then 3-pitch strikeout. 8 straight outs recorded by Braves.
Evidently, Ellsbury had not faced Venters before that at-bat. The look he shot Venters after striking out in the most foolish-looking manner possible was almost worth the extra stress on Venters’ arm.
“Did Mccarver really just imply that the AL is only losing because they’re missing their top pitchers?”
Better than saying the AL is not winning because Jeter chose not to participate.
How the flaming hell is a guy who just spent an entire offseason demanding trades a great team playe, much less the greatest one tim mccarver knows?! Can’t believe I’m saying it, but Chip would be a massive upgrade over this drivel.
For some reason I would get great joy out of Wilson blowing the save here. I know it could cost home field advantage, but I am not sure I care.
Edit…..so much for that….good that we now get home field advantage I guess
Who was he talking about? I muted those two morons early on.
@195 Michael Young.
So yeah, Bochy is a toolbox.
A round of applause for Lincecum, Cain and Vogelsong, job well done.
Notice how he waited until it was a save situation and only then put Wilson in.
Yet another reason I don’t like the home field advantage thing. I can’t imagine not seeing Lincecum pitch in an All-Star game, but, since it “counts,” it makes more sense to use a bunch of relievers.
And then there’s this from yesterday:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/detail?entry_id=92903
Krod traded to the Brewers
@201, I guess it’s just because it’s late, but I stared at “Krod” for a good two minutes wondering what the hell you were talking about.
I wonder what they’re going to do with K hyphen Rod.
I imagine they will use him as a setup man to avoid his vesting option.
Well, I guess that was worth DVRing. How ’bout WS Games 1 & 2 at The Ted?
K-Rod: A couple weeks ago, he supposedly said that he’d accept a deal to a team that could use him as a set-up guy. Apparently, he then took on Scott Boras as his agent & changed his tune, saying he’d only close.
Wonder who the Mets got back…
Two minor leaguers yet to be chosen from list the Brewers will provide. (JSOnline.com)
Not that I ever, ever feel sorry for Mets fans, but most of them (the ones in my office anyway) have really enjoyed this team. They really wanted to see how things would turn out.
But I guess the dismantling has begun.
Even Beltran the other day was talking about how possibly going to Boston or San Francisco would be great because they’re in the playoff hunt. Gotta sting a little bit if you’re a Met fan.
The Brewers have minor leaguers?
So, not that it actually means anything, but over at mlbtraderumors, they did a position-by-position survey of the trade market.
They rated as weak: DH, C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, Corner OF, Starting Pitching, LH Relief.
The only positions they rated as strong: CF, Bench, and RH Relief.
So, I guess we’ll have options, huh?.. But they really only seem to count the available players at each position, and don’t account for the number of clubs competing to buy them.
How ’bout that NL pitching? The Braves sat down eight batters in a roW!
On another note, something I was wondering about Chipper’s surgery. When I had my meniscus scoped in May, I was told to avoid aspirin-based products, etc. for seven days before the surgery. As I understand, this was because of the anesthesia. Now, given the pain that Chipper apparently was in, I’m sure he must have been taking anti-inflammatories and pain medication during the period. So, unless the procedure is different for a baseball star, he would have had to stop taking the stuff–I assume–for a week before the surgery. This suggests that this wasn’t a snap decision but that they had decided in advance to have the surgery at this time. No big deal but if Chipper was playing those games without any medicine–unless there is stuff that you can take up to surgery–he was probably playing in some real pain.
You can say whatever you want about Chipper being injury prone, but this guy gives his heart and soul (and body) to this team and always has.
As for the ASG, the manager should have no say whatsoever in selecting the team. These guys don’t want to piss off their own players so they inevitably screw over someone else. And people act as if this is simply a benefit for having won the pennant the previous year. It’s probably not fair to say the NL won only because the AL was missing guys but facing the Rangers guy was a lot easier than facing Justin Verlander.
To clarify the Braves performance in the ASG, our guys did record eight outs, but in between Jair gave up a single to Kevin Youkilis and Kimbrel walked Paul Konerko. Pretty great overall, but Kimbrel did have a bit of a jam to work out of there in the 7th.
I thought Kimbrel was getting squeezed by the ump some, but it worked out.
Smitty, yeah it seemed the ump had a very small zone last night. Im just glad the NL handed it to the AL powerhouse team that would have dominated if all their stars had been there.
@170: I missed it. What did Wilson say about McCann?
Something about him being a beast and us needing to lock him up long-term.
Salcedo is now hitting .276/.348/.458 at Rome w/ 24 doubles, 4 triples, and 9 HR as a 19 year old.
If he keeps it up, you have to move him to High A some point in the second half, right?
Ethan, maybe. Seems like he really struggled with adjusting to pro ball last year. They may move him along slowly. He’s one of the few bats the Braves actually have in the system. I hope he progresses.
Looking over Freeman’s monthly splits makes me heave a great sigh of contentment and validation.
Freeman has done a good bit to fill the superstar-Jason-Heyward-shaped hole in my heart. If Heyward returns to beastly form at some point and Freddie continues to improve, I would be overflowing with love for youth.
He’s actually acquitted himself quite well against lefties so far too – something like a 105 wRC+.
i agree csg. Been a tough year for hitters all around. Lipka has been a huge disappointment so far, Myke Jones hasn’t really distinguished himself, and the holes Christian Martinez’s game are as evident as ever.
I keep hoping one of the college guys in A+ ball catches fire, but outside of maybe Simmons, that group is smelling mostly like utility type guys.
EDIT: I guess Pastornicky has been solid too.
Marc Schneider at 210,
Did they specifically tell you off all anti inflammatories? Are you sure they said because of anesthesia?
My thinking is it was to raise your clotting factor. Aspirin is a surprisingly strong blood thinner and should be avoided in pre surgery circumstances almost always. That is my guess on what was up.
From a Jayson Stark article on espn.com:
“The National League was about to do something that hadn’t occurred since the first term of the William Jefferson Clinton administration. It was about to win two — count ’em, two — All-Star Games in a row.”
Do you suppose he intentionally made that “funny”?
He’s a sportswriter. Nuanced humor is not in the job description.
Ohhh….I get it! It’s funny because that was a long time ago!
You slay me, Mr. Stark. Now quick, tell me more about how Andruw Jones has been overrated defensively during his career.
Rumble, rumble, grumble
Think cliff meant Andruw’s line at the Gold Club trial
Look at the 3rd picture down and what this guy was standing on.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Not-again-Fan-almost-falls-from-stands-at-Home-?urn=mlb-wp12376
@221,
Maybe you are right. I know they said no aspirin-based products (which included ibuprofen, which is something I was taking). I assumed it was because of the anesthesia. I stand corrected.
Salcedo seems to have lifted himself above the rest of the pack this year. He’s now the best non-pitching prospect in the system.
Pastornicky is probably next in line, in large part because of the increase in power he has shown this year. He still might need more seasoning in the minors, but don’t be shocked of the Braves look to him to be their SS in 2012.
After those two, well, let’s hope Nick Ahmed works out.
Disclaimer: I know nobody cares.
I made a series of trades in my NL-only roto/keeper league yesterday (a league with 23 roster spots, the stats of all of which count, and a $26 auction budget), resulting in the following aggregate:
Outgoing:
Brian McCann (cannot be kept past this season)
Jose Reyes (can be kept next season for 2.80)
Alfonso Soriano (cannot be kept past this season)
John Axford (cannot be kept past this season)
Rafael Furcal (cannot be kept past this season)
Xavier Paul (can be kept next season for 1.10)
MiLB pitcher Jenrry Mejia
MiLB pitcher Brody Colvin
MiLB pitcher Chad James
MiLB pitcher Jay Jackson
My third-round MiLB draft choice in 2012
My first-round MiLB draft choice in 2013
Incoming:
Mike Stanton (must be kept for 1.10 next season and can be kept again for 1.20 in 2013)
Albert Pujols (can be kept for 5.00 next season)
Hanley Ramirez (can be kept for 5.00 next season)
Mat Latos (can be kept for 2.10)
Joel Hanrahan (cannot be kept past this season)
Wilson Ramos (can be kept for 0.50 next season)
Two second-round MiLB draft choices in 2013
A third-round MiLB draft choice in 2013
I will likely be trading Pujols and Ramirez for draft picks sometime in the next month.
I made my team a little better for the rest of this year, significantly improved my team’s outlook for the next couple of seasons, and remedied a MiLB roster crunch (I had one open spot and 5 picks in next year’s draft, prior to these moves), while maintaining an elite stockpile (Derek Norris, Jonathan Singleton, Wilmer Flores, Carlos Martinez, Zach Wheeler, Tyler Skaggs, Jarred Cosart, and Tyler Matzek).
I love this league.
226, a clear favourite to win the 2011 Darwin award had he fallen.
What should the Braves offer for Beltran?
The elephant in the room is how poorly Heyward is performing. And he’s not exactly great in the outfield, either.
I think Beltran solidifies this lineup, but I’d sure hate to give up too much. Guess I’m still shell-shocked by the Texeira trade.
Medlen shut down for 6 weeks. Now can we get a frickin’ reliever?
Medlen wont pitch in the majors this year.
Beltran would drastically help this lineup, but can he play CF anymore?
At least Dr Andrews said the elbow is fine and structurally sound. I’d much rather hear that from him instead of a team doctor.
Noooo! I love Medlen and was hoping to see him out of the pen.
I love Medlen, too.
Time to trade Delgado for Bell and Ludwick, IMO.
#226/230
Yup, sorry to say, but that guy is Schmuckzilla With a Death Wish.
Stu, where does everyone play if we get a corner OF’r? Are you platooning Heyward in that situation or moving him to CF?
Prado to 3rd.
Yep, Prado to the infield, and I also think Ludwick can fake CF sometimes.
Im asking more about when Chipper returns in 2-3 weeks? I guess Id rather address the longer term issue in CF.
I’m afraid I would’ve found it quite difficult to feel badly for that dumbass had he indeed managed to fall and crack his skull open on the pool deck. That would not have been comparable to the situation from last week. Also, there were over 90 home runs the other night, and he and his friends had already caught three up until that point. I mean…I don’t really know what else to say. The All-Star Game key chain he bought at the souvenir stand while walking to his seat is probably more valuable than that ball would’ve been.
I think we would be better off getting a real CF than Ludwick. I think we need a guy who can get on base play a decent center and bat leadoff.
If there is no CF available in our price range, Ludwick/Beltran would be fine. Between 3rd, LF RF and 2nd, there’s 4-5 starts a week.
Braves can’t take on significant salary, so to get Beltran they’d have to give up a top pitching prospect. No thanks–I’d rather not watch Delgado be a very good starter on the Mets for the next 6 seasons.
I think we should just trade Brandon Hicks for 1997 Ken Griffey Jr. and be done with it.
244—Exactly. If we can get a real CF, great. If not, a left-fielder is extremely manageable, given the present injury/suck issues between LF, 3B, and 2B.
USA vs. Japan in the women’s world cup. A final made for Furman Bisher.
Maye they can move the match to Midway Island.
Besides, I think we all knew it was going to take more than one of those effete Euro countries to stop the yellow peril.
I wonder if Adam Jones is on our radar. Baltimore is, yet again, out of contention, and I’d think they would listen to offers for him. Only $3.25M (prorated) this year, then 2 more years of arb. before FA.
He’s definitely a true CF, and right-handed. Not a world-beater at the plate yet, but he’s been pretty consistent the past 3 yrs (OPS+ has actually gone up this year, what with the lower offensive context). And he’s only 25, so there’s still time for improvement. (Interestingly, I noticed that his current season is on pace to be very similar to Hunter Pence’s 25-yo season).
Just a thought.
The Orioles have no reason to trade Jones.
I want Pence. I think this team is one RH power bat away from being the best team in the NL. I realize that leaves us with no CF. I guess we could use Schafer or McLouth in CF on days when Prado is at third and use Heyward in CF on days when Chipper is playing. We’d still have Pence around next year, so if Chipper retired we’d be able to move Prado to 3B full time and then figure our our CF situation. This is a move that would put us over the top. The Teixera trade at best would have gotten us into the playoffs. This is a year where I think the right move makes us pretty special.
Tim Dierkes over at MLBTR threw out Randall Delgado as a candidate for best prospect to be traded this summer.
What kind of players would Delgado net? Wren does seem to have a knack for making those trades that nobody really sees beforehand.
I’ve never followed soccer in my life so I need to ask a question. Has the US Women’s team always had this many attractive players? Ali Krieger, Alex Morgan, Amy Rodriguez, Kelley O’Hara (my newest obsession). The list just keeps going!
@254 You and Bethany are yin and yang
251 – Maybe not, but they’d probably at least listen if you threw around some of the names we have available. Or maybe that Andruw-esque catch he made earlier this year is still sticking in my mind…
Really, I’m not picky over who we get — Ludwick, Pence, somebody we haven’t mentioned — as long as they swing righty and can actually hit. Another RH reliever would be nice, but as IthacaBraves said above, another bat could put us over the top.
Braves should release Kenshin Kawakami on the day of the match as a sign of support, IMO.
254 – Heather Mitts and Hope Solo too.
I am probably alone but I would rather the team stand pat than get a corner OFer and try to play him in CF. Its unfortunate but as far I can see all of the desirable CFs are not obtainable.
This seems completely irrelevant to me, but….why?
“The Dodgers, Rockies and Braves have replaced the Tigers, Cubs and Cardinals on Joakim Soria’s no-trade list, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports.com”
Brandi Chastain had it going on, of course. And I always kinda had a thing for Mia Hamm.
#259 – guess he doesnt want to be a 7th inning guy. Dont think he was in the plans anyways.
No, I don’t think he’s in our plans at all. I just don’t see the common thread between the Braves, Rockies and Dodgers. Usually a guy wants to avoid a region of the country or the major media markets or teams that have no playoff aspirations. I guess I’m just not sure why we’re on his list.
Because Fredi abuses good relievers.
Just when you thought the mashup was dead, along comes this gem. Thin Lizzy/The Pixies, “The Boys Are Back In Heaven.”
263
Well, I certainly feel like an idiot.
It’s not you; it’s Fredi.
I just offered Heyward, Nolasco, Ogando, and Jeter for Roy Halladay. Probably still wont work.
csg,
Keeper league?
7 player keeper league….Its basically swapping Heyward for Halladay because the other 3 would be dropped. Current keepers
Votto, Tulo, Heyward, McCutchen, Holliday, Hanson, Cliff Lee
I’d love that deal for today, but I might regret that as soon as next year. Halladay is one of the best pitchers in baseball (if not the best), but he’s getting up there in years (he’s already 34). The core of that Phillies offense is starting to crumble, and is definitely going to start going downhill at a steeper pace soon. That team’s got a below-average defense, and is straddled economically to the point that I don’t like their outlook or believe in their ability to fix their problems for the next couple of years. That, and the fact that I still believe that Heyward is going to be a monster might make that a no-deal right now.
Or I could just be a homer.
UPDATE:
I traded
Hanley Ramirez (can be kept for 5.00 next season)
Joel Hanrahan (cannot be kept past this season)
for
Mark Melancon (can be kept for 1.10 next season)
Rafael Furcal (cannot be kept past this season)
Juan Francisco (can be kept for 0.50 next season)
MiLB pitcher Jameson Taillon
I love this league.
@248: Playing Japan in Germany. Furman’s head will explode.
Yet another fantasy question for the board:
In a league that counts AVG, HR, and RBI, would you rather have Juan Uribe or Pat Burrell for the rest of the season?
Stu, are there not any other options? I guess Uribe if I had to choose, but only because Burrell isnt playing everyday and apparently the Giants want to add another OF’r. Dont like either though.
I’d go with Burrell, though in real life I would avoid both. Uribe’s numbers are a lot worse than Burrell’s and you would have to think the Dodgers are going to start playing younger guys soon.
274—I’m leaning strongly toward Uribe, too. (It’s actually that both are on my roster and one will have to be dropped.)
No, there are no better options. It’s a 12-team, NL-only league with 23-man rosters. After all my wheeling and dealing of the past two days, my squad (which is in the middle of the pack, talent-wise), looks like
C Ramos
C Thole
1B Pujols
2B Uggla
3B McGehee
SS Barney
MI Furcal
CI Uribe
OF Stanton
OF Ludwick
OF Ibanez
OF Parra
OF G. Jones
U Burrell
P Jimenez
P Niese
P Latos
P Leake
P Marquis
P Hammel
P Nicasio
P Melancon
P B. Wilson
(DL’d/demoted reserves: Emaus, Greene, Chipper, J. Francisco, Volquez)
(MiLB roster: Norris, Singleton, Flores, Z. Wheeler, C. Martinez, Skaggs, Cosart, Taillon, Matzek)
I love this league.
Good thing is you only have to ride Uribe until Chipper comes back. Can you use your MILB roster now? You may want to watch Cozart and replace he and Burrell in the UTIL spot.
That’s Jarred Cosart, Phillies pitching prospect, not Zack Cozart. Zack is actually the reason I’ll be dropping Burrell, since I’m pretty confident that I won the bidding on him.
Yeah, you can bring up the minor-league guys whenever they’re called up, though. Of course, all of my guys are pretty far away.
Gotcha, well that doesnt work. Id still keep Uribe over Burrell and hope that he gets things going. Burrell will only start against lefties going forward and he isnt hitting them at all. Uribe is usually better in the 2nd half. If you get Cozart and Chipper comes back, then Id bench Uribe.
Yeah, that’s the plan, assuming no injuries.
I dont know if anyone discussed this, but here you go.
http://www.talkingchop.com/2011/7/3/2257339/atlanta-braves-2011-international-signings
@ 281 thanks
is it me or is this all star break longer than usual? we haven’t played a game since christmas, feels like
Gartrell won the minor league HR Derby…some high school jr hit one 545 feet
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110712&content_id=21750188&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb
New Keith Law top 50 prospects puts Vizcaino at 11, Teheran at 12, and no other Braves in top 50. Surprised to see no Delgado, and that he dings Teheran for lack of development on his curve, but moves Vizcaino up to # 11 despite wide reports that he only has 2 good pitches. Go figure.
http://tinyurl.com/6y5bwyh
Law is a tool. Ill say that I wasnt overly impressed with Teheran’s two starts because he didnt seem to have a strikeout pitch. Then again, he pitched in Ariz and in Philly against two solid offenses. He’s got incredible numbers in AAA and I dont really see how Vizcaino can be ranked ahead of him. Doesnt really matter though.
The Braves have also “graduated” Freeman, Minor, and Kimbrel, all of whom would be in the top 50. Plus they have Heyward and Beachy on the 25-man roster. Surprised to see no Delgado, though.
Couple of things on Delgado –
1 – new and shiny prospects have come into the game since last year
2 – His peripherals are a little down, so despite moving to a tougher league at a young age , he may “appear” stalled a little.
I think you’re nuts if you don’t think Teheran’s changeup is a strikeout pitch.
Mistrial for Clemens. I don’t like Clemens (duh), and we can’t have people thinking they can lie to Congress — that said, I do hope he avoids prison for this particular (alleged) infraction. Baseball was unfairly singled out for public humiliation during the dog-and-pony show hearings, and Bonds and Clemens have been further spotlighted not because their infraction was any worse, but because their results were better.
I draw very little moral distinction between those who denied steroid usage when asked and those who have escaped the question altogether, and many, many players were equally culpable, including many I rooted and still root for. So I’d have been left with hoping Clemens would go to prison just because I don’t like him as a baseball player (or, likely, personally, had we ever met). A line I’ve forced myself to be unwilling to cross.
Greetings from Denver…
#290
Another big difference is that a delusional Clemens brought this on himself. (He wanted to have his syringe & shoot it, too) I’m guessing he thought he could just lie & never see trial.
And I’m fine with baseball’s public humiliation.
He lied about cheating while playing a sport. I prefer that prison be reserved for crimes that have victims, either actual or potential, and I just don’t see that here.
This day and age lying about something draws more severe consequences than what you are lying about in the first place. ref: Bruce Pearl, Jim Tressel
Those guys aren’t being threatened with prison, last I checked.
Q&A with DOB and Wren…
Q: With your pitching in majors and minors, are people calling you?
A: No, because I think they’re smart enough to know that we’re not going to be trading our young pitching unless there’s something extraordinary out there to us. We’re going to hold on and that’s been a key strategy for us over last few years, is to stockpile and hold on to our prospects the best we can. We’re going to continue to do that. Depending on who we go after, what we go after, you have to make value judgments at the time, both for the present and the future, as to how big the piece you’re acquiring is to your team and to the ability to play late in October.
Frank will be on this show sooner rather than later…
http://tinyurl.com/mosnrh
Can you see it? Frank filling out a whole 40-man roster with potential starting pitchers and a 25-man rotation. Lineup:
1. Hudson 2. Jurrjens 3. Lowe 4. Minor 5. Beachy 6. Teheran 7. Delgado 8. Hoover 9. Vizcaino
Only in the kangaroo court that is is the NCAA and / or Congressional preening.
Gotta say I’m with sansho on this. Feds have no business intervening in whether certain baseball players may have used PEDs. Baseball (and its fans) will eventually police itself.
Speaking of the NCAA, looks like we may have a real dogfight between NCAA and Georgia Tech.
I’d love to see somebody finally stand up to those officious, self-important jerks.
(No, Dawg fans – I’m talking about the NCAA.)
Lied to congress in a forum he essentially asked for.
No sympathy for Clemens or his sullied legacy. If he’d gone to jail, that was on him & his lawyer.
I would give up Minor, Delgado, and Bullock for Adam Jones. csg is right @251, but man, would he round out this lineup.
Nobody said anything about sympathy. A sullied legacy is not an insignificant punishment (tho it lacks the vindictive appeal of a perp walk), and feel free to tack on a ban from further employment in baseball and ineligibility for the Hall of Fame while you’re at it. Heck, let’s find a batter who was so ineffective against Clemens and Pettitte that he could claim real harm to his career and let him sue for damages. I’d enjoy that.
Keith can nitpick about lack of development of Teheran’s curve all he wants, I’ll take the guy dominating AAA hitters over the guy struggling to adjust to AA after a half season of A+, especially when the guy dominating AAA hitters is two months YOUNGER.
295 – No Hanson?
@302
Hoover was supposed to be Hanson but my brain had other ideas.
#300
My only point is that Roger Clemens made his own bed. If he went to jail, it wouldn’t keep me up nights. It would be a testament to his arrogance & legal stupidity.
I am pumped to have 14 starting pitchers!
US Attorney made a rookie mistake. He should go after lying congressmen.
Thanks to 8 first-inning runs, Jo Jo Reyes might just beat the Yankees. He did, however, give up a bomb to Andruw.
Clemons mistake was not getting elected to Congress before lying on Capital Hill. Lying in Congress is only illegal when the amateurs do it.
307- And now the Blue Jays’ lead is down to 9-7, on Andruw’s second HR of the night.
It’s 80s night at Rogers Centre, and the Jays broadcast is using an retro 80s era TV display. I kind of like it. They also put up WHIP and BB/9 on one of the pitcher stat lines.
O Canada.
Although I have to say that I think the grass basepaths at Rogers are hideous and I don’t understand why you would want grass basepaths.
We signed Gilmartin.
I just traded Adam Dunn for Freddie Freeman. It’s a keeper league, so I can keep Freddie for $5 next season.
Boy the Phillies schedule in July is really a joke. Nothing but Mets, Cubs, Padres and Pirates, with only three games vs. SF mixed in (albeit in Philly). We are not going to gain any ground anytime soon I suppose.
In McCutchen we trust.
@295,
Is this what passes for journalism at the AJC? A bunch of softball questions that Wren could have written himself? And Carroll Rogers supplied the answers too. These writers must be afraid of losing their food privileges in the press box.
Let’s just say Rogers/DOB desn’t have what it takes to get kicked off the charter.
http://savannahnow.com/stories/062800/SPTbraveplane.shtml
Any idea why Vizcaino was pulled after 51 pitches last night? 3IP 2H 1BB 7K
He pitched in the Futures Game on Sunday, maybe that’s the reason.
#319 – I had the same thought, just making sure it wasnt an injury. Seems like they couldve just skipped this start for him though.
Maybe we pulled him because we are about to trade him for Matt Kemp.
per ESPN, Chipper is targeting July 25th as his return date.
Geez. That’s awfully quick. Only missing 12 games.
Wonder if Dayton would give up on Lorenzo Cain? He’d do as a righty CF.
The most important thing we need to take away from the AS break is that Proctor is still on the team. Is Wren just waiting until they can make a move for a RP before they clear his roster spot?
@323,
I think it’s just a matter of how much discomfort he can take and still be effective. Structurally, the knee will probably be as sound as it ever will be especially given the treatment and rehab he is probably doing.
Cain is destroying AAA ball. Id offer something for him….
DOB tweet:
So I know it’s only a few dollars over, but why did they go over slot on Gilmartin? Wasn’t that type of pick made on the principle of staying under slot?
I assume that they think they got something better than advertised.
I mean, I guess it’s so close that it is paying slot.
@325: Yeah, this is kind of a ridiculous outrage. Scott Proctor is a 100% useless dude. In any situation in which you would send him out to pitch, you should instead send Eric Hinske out to pitch. Thus, even if you somehow believe that you don’t have a better pitching option available at AAA (which is demonstrably not true), clear the roster spot and call up a back-up catcher or a utility infielder or something. We’ll never know for sure, but if it turns out that this was just motivated by Frank Wren’s hurt pride over an acquisition being utter and complete garbage, then Frank needs to get kicked in the balls.
Stupid question: What rule prevents a rich Braves fan from donating money to the Braves to add to their payroll?
Because there’s little to no guarantee they’d spend it on that, like all the other money they get.
Baseball returns today and still no news of Scott Proctor’s release. What the hell?
Maybe he’ll go when Prado is officially activated?
328—I’m still extremely bitter that Mikie Mahtook is not a Braves farmhand.
I’m pretty sure they’ll send down Hicks when Prado’s activated. Possibly Ramirez. They’d switch a pitcher in if Proctor was being DFAd.
We can hope that he’ll no longer be seen as any kind of a high-leverage guy, but I think people are probably gonna have to face the fact that Proctor pitched OK for a period right after getting called up, and they’re not gonna release him after three bad outings, no matter how disastrous. I doubt he’ll be on the team at the end of the season, especially if he continues pitching like he has recently, but I don’t think Wren got up this morning and said to himself, “OK, the first thing I need to do today, even before eating breakfast, is release Scott Proctor.”
@331 – the only institution you can donate to with 100% assurance that the $s go directly to the athlete is the Univ of Tennessee. Sorry, I couldn’t help myself on that one.
I don’t think Wren got up this morning and said to himself, “OK, the first thing I need to do today, even before eating breakfast, is release Scott Proctor.”
I agree. But he should have.
I don’t think Wren got up this morning and said to himself, “OK, the first thing I need to do today, even before eating breakfast, is release Scott Proctor.”
Sadly, Wren did get up one morning and say to himself: “hmm, think I’ll give Scott Proctor a major league contract.”
At long last, there is a game thread.