I didn’t see Lowe’s last start, but caught the highlights on mlb.com. Did he do well because he got a generous outside corner and lived there or was he genuinely good?
Rob Cope
on September 19, 2010 at 8:20 am
Dotel posted a solid 3.38 ERA in 19 appearances for the Dodgers. But he also suffered a costly blown save Aug. 16 at Atlanta, when he was called upon to close a game with a two-run lead. That took place three days after Broxton had been taken out of the closer’s role because he was struggling badly, and Kuo had gotten into a one-out, bases-loaded jam in the ninth.
Dotel faced two batters that night, walking David Ross to force in a run and giving up a game-winning, two-run single to Orlando Cabrera.
Did we make a deal I don’t know about?
mravery
on September 19, 2010 at 9:42 am
Far more believable than Melky Carbrera delivering a game-winning hit, no?
@6 FINALLY! I’ve been waiting for this lineup, I mean Ankiel isn’t much of a hitter, but I like having a speedy guy in the 8 spot and I like his defense best, this is clearly our best defensive outfield alignment.
Trace
on September 19, 2010 at 10:46 am
I know we all hate the Rockies here but I’m pretty much enjoying Tulowitzki’s assault on the NL. He’s been unreal for my fantasy team.
Parish
on September 19, 2010 at 10:58 am
Missed that the new thread had started:
On this hypothetical Braves-Rockies trade, the Braves would not do it because they value pitching above all else.
You are suggesting we trade the youngest, least expensive half of our existing rotation (Minor is still a question mark.), plus the second best starting pitching prospect in our system for two position players who are playing half of their games at Coors Field. I agree the Rockies would not make that trade, but the Braves wouldn’t either.
DowneasterJC
on September 19, 2010 at 11:12 am
Well Jurrjens is about to hit arb and will likely get a big raise and with Boras as his agent there’s virtually no chance of signing him through those years. His highest value to the Braves is as a trade chip for what they really need – offense. Playing at Coors or not, Tulo and CarGo are way better than what we’re trotting out at SS and CF.
Adam M
on September 19, 2010 at 11:27 am
“On this hypothetical Braves-Rockies trade, the Braves would not do it because they value pitching above all else.”
No. The Braves, like everyone, value pitching, but considering his age, contract, and position, Troy Tulowitzki is one of the five most valuable players in all of baseball. Young position players have more monetary/trade value than pitchers because they project better and because they don’t have the injury risk. Also, both Tulo AND Cargo have better track records in the majors than any of the three Braves players mentioned here. They’re young, affordable, and already great.
As for the Braves, Jurrjens is a #3 starter (#2 at his best, backend of the rotation guy at his worst) about to hit arbitration, Hanson is a top young arm who projects to be a top-of-the-rotation guy, and Delgado is a high-ceiling prospect–though not on the level of Hellickson or Teheran. As good as the group is, the Rockies wouldn’t trade Tulowitzki alone for those three because they’d be gutting both their lineup and defense without getting a top-15 player back in the deal.
To be sure, this is all silly because they wouldn’t entertain trade offers for Tulowitzki anyway, let alone for Tulowitzki and Cargo, and because no one would bother asking.
Ultimately, in order to field a competitive lineup over the next couple seasons, the Braves will have to deal a couple young arms; there’s no way Minor, Delgado, Vizcaino, and Teheran all will play for the same team, especially one that also already includes Hanson, Medlen, and Jurrjens. Of those seven, expect three–and maybe four–to be gone in the next two years.
Rusty S.
on September 19, 2010 at 11:42 am
@9 – Yes, we have 3 center fielders if you count Melky, so why not start the best defense? You can pinch hit for Ankiel the first time up, if you’re behind, and with the expanded roster still have lots of bench left.
At least you’ve bought yourself 2 or 3 innings of defense.
Parish
on September 19, 2010 at 12:10 pm
13 – I certainly agree that the Braves will have to trade arms for bats soon, but they would not make the trade you suggest, not now. Certainly, they would not do it with Medlen on the shelf for the next season.
I am not saying they should not do it; I am saying that they wouldn’t.
spike
on September 19, 2010 at 12:36 pm
As long as we never trade arms for hostages. I was promised.
Grst
on September 19, 2010 at 12:48 pm
That sucks.
Tomas
on September 19, 2010 at 12:49 pm
That could have gone better.
DowneasterJC
on September 19, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Trade Heyward for Francoeur. Francoeur has a great smile.
braves14
on September 19, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Chip is extra annoying today.
Tomas
on September 19, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Enough with the double plays, guys.
joelk
on September 19, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Nice pick by Alex there!
Parish
on September 19, 2010 at 1:11 pm
So far, bad timing of the gopher balls today.
Brian J.
on September 19, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Did Rick never hear the phrase “Never make the first out at third base”?
braves14
on September 19, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Ankiel sucks.
ryan c
on September 19, 2010 at 1:13 pm
geez rick. at least snitker gave some comedy relief.
Tomas
on September 19, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Should probably just have stayed at second with the pitcher coming up, would have been a bunt anyway.
RobBroad4th
on September 19, 2010 at 1:15 pm
That was the worst slide in history.
Weldon
on September 19, 2010 at 1:15 pm
I don’t think Jörmungandr wants us to win this one.
RobBroad4th
on September 19, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Snitkered.
Grst
on September 19, 2010 at 1:19 pm
This is more frustrating than when we aren’t hitting at all, imo.
Our New Insect Overlords
on September 19, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Willie Mays Hayes slid better in spring training.
Bethany
on September 19, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Ankiel: worst baserunner ever?
csg
on September 19, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Early in the season Lowe was throwing nothing but sinkers and every pitch was around 87-89. He’s really mixing his speeds up now and working both sides of the plate. Its about time
csg
on September 19, 2010 at 1:32 pm
#33 – Yunel
Weldon
on September 19, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Chip was born to read promos for REO Speedwagon concerts.
braves14
on September 19, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Dickey’s allowed 7 hits, 2 walks, no Ks, and one measly run.
Bethany
on September 19, 2010 at 1:38 pm
I love Alex today.
braves14
on September 19, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Finally.
spike
on September 19, 2010 at 1:38 pm
I’ll take it.
Brian J.
on September 19, 2010 at 1:38 pm
AAG got all of the team’s clutchness allotment today.
joelk
on September 19, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Is anybody else whose listening to Ron Darling talk about Lee Mazilli’s big thighs and tight uniform think that’s a little weird?
Grst
on September 19, 2010 at 1:50 pm
It’s nice when our defense isn’t looking like a circus act.
Hmmm…did Acosta serve that one up on purpose? After all, he is still sporting a Braves cap in his Yahoo pic, ha ha.
Ringer
on September 19, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Manny Acosta for MVP
pcbeachbum
on September 19, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Wow! I lost my laptop wifi for less than a minute and the comments jumped from “I’ll take a walk here.” (which was my thought as well) to “Holy Shit!”. Way to go, Derrek!
JonathanF
on September 19, 2010 at 2:23 pm
@42. I agree, except that it’s Hernandez talking, not Darling.
joelk
on September 19, 2010 at 2:29 pm
@79 Yeh, just realized that, thanks!
Dan
on September 19, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Michael Morse hit a 3-run home run. Washington now leading 4-3 over the Phillies.
csg
on September 19, 2010 at 2:37 pm
STL taking care of SD right now, 3-0
DG
on September 19, 2010 at 2:39 pm
If the scores hold up as they are now, a Braves sweep against Philly means we’re back in first place. A guy can dream, can’t he?
Dan
on September 19, 2010 at 2:42 pm
“A guy can dream, can’t he?”
Not with the pitching match-ups.
justhank
on September 19, 2010 at 2:43 pm
So what happens if:
Bama
Ohio State
Oregon (or Stanford)
Oklahoma (or Texas or Nebraska)
Boise
TCU
all go undefeated?
DG
on September 19, 2010 at 2:47 pm
#85…the BCS would declare a playoff, ha ha.
NickC
on September 19, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Putting Venters back in again is moronic.
Anyone see what happened to Tyler Colvin? Apparently he was speared by a broken bat scoring from 3rd.
In response to all the Tulo/Gonzo love on BravesJournal today: guys, remember, they play half their games in Coors Field. Gonzalez has struggled to put up a .700 OPS on road games this year, and Tulowitzki is little more than a league-average hitter in the first half. They are amazing amazing amazing this year, but a lot of that has to do with where they play.
Cargo has been ordinary on the road, true, but he has really picked it up of late.
As for Tulowitzki, he has posted a 932 OPS on the road. Meanwhile, during the first half he produced a .307/.375/.502 triple slash–a line that includes a bad April. Tulowitzki is also one of the best shortstops in baseball, and might even be the best. All told he will end up being a seven-win player before the season ends. Before the All Star break Tulo was an all-star caliber player; now’s he an MVP-caliber player.
Tulo’s month may end up being the greatest single month in the history of baseball, and so I’d say–park effects or not–it’s fair to talk about it.
Tomas
on September 19, 2010 at 3:09 pm
The no-walk version of Kimbrel looking good.
Brian J.
on September 19, 2010 at 3:09 pm
I love New York… well, the part about having the Braves visit and humiliate the Mets.
Adam, no question, Tulowitzki has few peers at his position. He may well be the best shortstop in baseball, and he may be having the greatest September in the history of the game. But his offense is inflated by the park he plays in, so you have to take some air out of his stats before you propose trading 3 or 4 of our best 7 players.
[Guiness Cartoon Admen]
Joe West being devoured by the World Serpent?
Brilliant!
[/GCA]
I didn’t see Lowe’s last start, but caught the highlights on mlb.com. Did he do well because he got a generous outside corner and lived there or was he genuinely good?
Dotel posted a solid 3.38 ERA in 19 appearances for the Dodgers. But he also suffered a costly blown save Aug. 16 at Atlanta, when he was called upon to close a game with a two-run lead. That took place three days after Broxton had been taken out of the closer’s role because he was struggling badly, and Kuo had gotten into a one-out, bases-loaded jam in the ninth.
Dotel faced two batters that night, walking David Ross to force in a run and giving up a game-winning, two-run single to Orlando Cabrera.
Did we make a deal I don’t know about?
Far more believable than Melky Carbrera delivering a game-winning hit, no?
@2 He was really good.
bobby slowly realizing that melky really sucks…
1. Infante 2B, 2. Heyward RF, 3. Prado 3B, 4. McCann C, 5. Lee, 1B, 6. McLouth LF, 7. Gonzalez SS, 8. Ankiel CF, 9. Lowe P
Melky sucks worse than Ankiel?
Ankiel can play center field well.
@6 FINALLY! I’ve been waiting for this lineup, I mean Ankiel isn’t much of a hitter, but I like having a speedy guy in the 8 spot and I like his defense best, this is clearly our best defensive outfield alignment.
I know we all hate the Rockies here but I’m pretty much enjoying Tulowitzki’s assault on the NL. He’s been unreal for my fantasy team.
Missed that the new thread had started:
On this hypothetical Braves-Rockies trade, the Braves would not do it because they value pitching above all else.
You are suggesting we trade the youngest, least expensive half of our existing rotation (Minor is still a question mark.), plus the second best starting pitching prospect in our system for two position players who are playing half of their games at Coors Field. I agree the Rockies would not make that trade, but the Braves wouldn’t either.
Well Jurrjens is about to hit arb and will likely get a big raise and with Boras as his agent there’s virtually no chance of signing him through those years. His highest value to the Braves is as a trade chip for what they really need – offense. Playing at Coors or not, Tulo and CarGo are way better than what we’re trotting out at SS and CF.
“On this hypothetical Braves-Rockies trade, the Braves would not do it because they value pitching above all else.”
No. The Braves, like everyone, value pitching, but considering his age, contract, and position, Troy Tulowitzki is one of the five most valuable players in all of baseball. Young position players have more monetary/trade value than pitchers because they project better and because they don’t have the injury risk. Also, both Tulo AND Cargo have better track records in the majors than any of the three Braves players mentioned here. They’re young, affordable, and already great.
As for the Braves, Jurrjens is a #3 starter (#2 at his best, backend of the rotation guy at his worst) about to hit arbitration, Hanson is a top young arm who projects to be a top-of-the-rotation guy, and Delgado is a high-ceiling prospect–though not on the level of Hellickson or Teheran. As good as the group is, the Rockies wouldn’t trade Tulowitzki alone for those three because they’d be gutting both their lineup and defense without getting a top-15 player back in the deal.
To be sure, this is all silly because they wouldn’t entertain trade offers for Tulowitzki anyway, let alone for Tulowitzki and Cargo, and because no one would bother asking.
Ultimately, in order to field a competitive lineup over the next couple seasons, the Braves will have to deal a couple young arms; there’s no way Minor, Delgado, Vizcaino, and Teheran all will play for the same team, especially one that also already includes Hanson, Medlen, and Jurrjens. Of those seven, expect three–and maybe four–to be gone in the next two years.
@9 – Yes, we have 3 center fielders if you count Melky, so why not start the best defense? You can pinch hit for Ankiel the first time up, if you’re behind, and with the expanded roster still have lots of bench left.
At least you’ve bought yourself 2 or 3 innings of defense.
13 – I certainly agree that the Braves will have to trade arms for bats soon, but they would not make the trade you suggest, not now. Certainly, they would not do it with Medlen on the shelf for the next season.
I am not saying they should not do it; I am saying that they wouldn’t.
As long as we never trade arms for hostages. I was promised.
That sucks.
That could have gone better.
Trade Heyward for Francoeur. Francoeur has a great smile.
Chip is extra annoying today.
Enough with the double plays, guys.
Nice pick by Alex there!
So far, bad timing of the gopher balls today.
Did Rick never hear the phrase “Never make the first out at third base”?
Ankiel sucks.
geez rick. at least snitker gave some comedy relief.
Should probably just have stayed at second with the pitcher coming up, would have been a bunt anyway.
That was the worst slide in history.
I don’t think Jörmungandr wants us to win this one.
Snitkered.
This is more frustrating than when we aren’t hitting at all, imo.
Willie Mays Hayes slid better in spring training.
Ankiel: worst baserunner ever?
Early in the season Lowe was throwing nothing but sinkers and every pitch was around 87-89. He’s really mixing his speeds up now and working both sides of the plate. Its about time
#33 – Yunel
Chip was born to read promos for REO Speedwagon concerts.
Dickey’s allowed 7 hits, 2 walks, no Ks, and one measly run.
I love Alex today.
Finally.
I’ll take it.
AAG got all of the team’s clutchness allotment today.
Is anybody else whose listening to Ron Darling talk about Lee Mazilli’s big thighs and tight uniform think that’s a little weird?
It’s nice when our defense isn’t looking like a circus act.
Nice hustle, fatboy.
Melky is a bloop machine.
swing away Omar
edit: thats why you dont ask the guy in line for a batting title to sacrifice
oh no, two men on, the heart of the order coming up, no outs… the Mets have us exactly where they want us.
Melky can haz cheeseburger?
Really!!!!
Bacon double cheeseburger with extra mayonnaise.
swinging bunt. Chip’s ecstatic that it’s just as good as a sacrifice.
I’m ecstatic that it wasn’t a DP.
He’s ecstatic that our best power hitter de facto sacrificed? It’s been said a lot, but it needs to be repeated: Chip is not right in the head.
sure would be nice for Bmac to have an AB like he did in the ALL Star game right here
52 — true
Fudge. Come on Lee.
@47, You may be right.
Chip: he’s like a signifier without a referent.
Would be nice if McCann snapped out of this funk soon.
Ill take a walk here
Holy hell.
Lee???!!!
LEE!!!
holy crap, that went a looonnggg way
Thanks, Atrosta!
Beautiful
That’s our Manny!
LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Holy shit.
booooom! well played, new guy.
DERREK!!!!
that’ll do pig.
Well! All right!
If Lee and McLouth are remembering how to hit…
Welcome, Derrek.
nice AB Nate
Hmmm…did Acosta serve that one up on purpose? After all, he is still sporting a Braves cap in his Yahoo pic, ha ha.
Manny Acosta for MVP
Wow! I lost my laptop wifi for less than a minute and the comments jumped from “I’ll take a walk here.” (which was my thought as well) to “Holy Shit!”. Way to go, Derrek!
@42. I agree, except that it’s Hernandez talking, not Darling.
@79 Yeh, just realized that, thanks!
Michael Morse hit a 3-run home run. Washington now leading 4-3 over the Phillies.
STL taking care of SD right now, 3-0
If the scores hold up as they are now, a Braves sweep against Philly means we’re back in first place. A guy can dream, can’t he?
“A guy can dream, can’t he?”
Not with the pitching match-ups.
So what happens if:
Bama
Ohio State
Oregon (or Stanford)
Oklahoma (or Texas or Nebraska)
Boise
TCU
all go undefeated?
#85…the BCS would declare a playoff, ha ha.
Putting Venters back in again is moronic.
Anyone see what happened to Tyler Colvin? Apparently he was speared by a broken bat scoring from 3rd.
In response to all the Tulo/Gonzo love on BravesJournal today: guys, remember, they play half their games in Coors Field. Gonzalez has struggled to put up a .700 OPS on road games this year, and Tulowitzki is little more than a league-average hitter in the first half. They are amazing amazing amazing this year, but a lot of that has to do with where they play.
Kimbrel warming up for the 9th.
Thanks, ump! That was ball four.
@88
Cargo has been ordinary on the road, true, but he has really picked it up of late.
As for Tulowitzki, he has posted a 932 OPS on the road. Meanwhile, during the first half he produced a .307/.375/.502 triple slash–a line that includes a bad April. Tulowitzki is also one of the best shortstops in baseball, and might even be the best. All told he will end up being a seven-win player before the season ends. Before the All Star break Tulo was an all-star caliber player; now’s he an MVP-caliber player.
Tulo’s month may end up being the greatest single month in the history of baseball, and so I’d say–park effects or not–it’s fair to talk about it.
The no-walk version of Kimbrel looking good.
I love New York… well, the part about having the Braves visit and humiliate the Mets.
Adam, no question, Tulowitzki has few peers at his position. He may well be the best shortstop in baseball, and he may be having the greatest September in the history of the game. But his offense is inflated by the park he plays in, so you have to take some air out of his stats before you propose trading 3 or 4 of our best 7 players.
What a difference a weekend makes.
Also, here are Carlos Gonzalez’s career home/road splits:
Home: .331/.376/.623
Road: .269/.316/.418
And Tulowitzki’s career 1st half/2nd half splits:
1st half: .263/.339/.445
2nd half: .319/.387/.550
Recapped.