New York Mets vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – August 04, 2010 – ESPN.
The Braves won the game, and the series, but it looks like they lost Kris Medlen. With one out in the fifth inning, leading 4-2, Medlen threw a pitch then hopped off the mound. He started holding and flexing his forearm, and as usual with a forearm injury it was diagnosed as a problem with his ulnar collateral ligament. He is getting an MRI today, and optimism is probably not warranted. A sudden injury like that sounds very much like a bad tear that will require Tommy John surgery.
As for the game, the Braves had five hits, including a double, their first time through the order, but got only one run thanks to a GIDP and a pickoff, and cries of “here we go again” were heard throughout the south. The one run came on a two-out double by McCann in the first, scoring Jones from first. The Mets tied it up in the second, as seems to happen an awful lot to Medlen (the broadcast noted that his ERA was over five in innings after the Braves scored) with a two-out rally in the middle of which was another walk to Jeffy. In the second, Reyes led off with a double, was sacrificed to third, and came home on a groundout in just the way that the Braves have been unable to do.
The home run ball showed up in the bottom of the third, though, as with two out Chipper and McCann hit back-to-back homers to give the Braves a 3-2 lead. It stayed that way until the sixth, when Mike Dunn, who came in to relieve Medlen, reached on a two-base error by Reyes (I thought it should have been a hit and an error, Dunn really made it fast up the line). Omar Infante, of course, couldn’t get him to third, and Heyward‘s groundout therefore didn’t score a run. But Chipper walked and McCann hit his second double of the game, scoring Dunn, though Chipper didn’t make it home this time. Hinske was intentionally walked (?!?) and Diaz was hit by a pitch, making it 5-2.
Moylan relieved Dunn with two out in the sixth after back-to-back walks and got Jeffy to fly out on the first pitch, as God intended. The Met defense completely imploded in the bottom of the inning, committing three errors — one each by Reyes, Ike Davis, and Wright — and the third of these, with the bases loaded, scored two runs, Melky and Omar. Omar in turn made a mindblowingly stupid error in the seventh (throwing a ball away trying to make an almost impossible force play at second with one out and a five run lead, and one runner on) leading to a run to cut it to 7-3.
Saito pitched the eighth, allowing a single but getting a double play to erase the runner, then striking out Jeffy. Melky homered in the bottom of the inning to get the lead back to five. Bobby brought in Farnsworth, who would never blow a five-run lead; after a single and a walk got Wagner up and throwing, Farnsworth finally finished the inning.
They’d been talking about that ERA in innings after the Braves thing the previous game as well… I think Lowe’s ERA in innings after the Braves score was over 9 if memory serves (and it rarely does).
So we’re planning on going to the game on Sunday. Me, the wife, 3 kids, and my parents. Planning on cheap seats and their Ultimate Kid’s Day thing… tickets for the 7 of us will be $39, + $10 for parking… PLUS $24.75 in Ticketmaster fees? That’s just nuts. I’m going to call the box office today and see about buying over the phone (do they have insane fees over the phone when you call the stadium?), OR just going to the game on Friday by myself (leave from work), buy a cheap seat for that game (and the Glavine number retiring thing), and the tickets for Sunday, and still save almost $20.
(if I’m spending that much extra I’d rather spend the money on better seats!)
They don’t charge you any fees when you buy over the phone or in person, it’s like the best kept secret in Braves tickets. I haven’t used ticketmaster to but tickets in years on account of it.
I can visualize a picture of Farnsworth in clown makeup with the following caption:
“F*cking closers — how do they work?”
Somebody make it happen.
Jeffy flying out on the first pitch against Moylan should be in all English grammar books as an example of a redundant sentence.
“Kids, a simple *Jeffy faced Moylan* would suffice here. You wouldn’t say *the wet water* would you?”
P.W. I guess I hadn’t noticed it before when I’ve bought through braves.com because I only make it to one or two games a year and the last couple years have been gifts (vendor tickets, going with friends who have season tickets, etc)… or nicer seats w/ sub $3 fees so it didn’t matter.
“Melky homered in the bottom of the inning to get the lead back to five.”
This needs waaaay more emphasis. El Hombre de Leche friggin *spanked* the ball.
Every once in a while, when he can get his top hand over his beer gut, he’ll do that. Usually not, obviously.
stubhub is a good place to get tickets though they charge a 10% fee
still sounds like it’d be cheaper to buy over the phone
I’ve heard some rumblings about cutting Glaus, how do we feel about this?
Would (gulp) signing Carlos Delgado be an answer?
I’m not sure inserting Freeman into a pennant race is the best idea.
@1
go to stubhub. for sunday, i’ve found 7 tickets for 12.00/each field level 124 (down the left field line). if you’d like an upgrade, there are 7 in section 121 for 28.50/each. if you’d really like to get your money’s worth, there are 7 tickets in section 117 row 21 for $37/ticket. stubhub is where all the season ticket holders sell their tickets and for most part, they sell them for much cheaper than you can buy them individually at the box office.
if you need help, let me know.
Free Freeman
@8, Those rumblings came from a bump in the road the van hit while you were sleeping. Only in dreams within dreams would we get rid of Glaus this year.
Thanks for the idea ryan. There are some tempting seats there.
Why don’t they get some of Smoltz’s jokes on the Braves highlights?
@13- The setup’s are typically too long.
Manuel’s decision to walk the ice cold Eric Hinske solely for preserving the righty-righty matchup against Matt Diaz, who has been one of a few Braves swinging a hot bat, was Bobbyesque. The only decision by an opposing manager that was more puzzling was last season when Manny Acta elected to bring in a lefty to “turn around” Greg Norton, which resulted in Martin Prado getting sent to the plate.
@15,
You’re comparing Jerry Manuel to Bobby Cox? That’s probably the first and last time that will ever be done.
Can Melky teach Heyward how to hit HRs?
On Kawakami,
Bobby has REALLY soured on him. Based on the stats I don’t see it. The comment after the game last night to the effect that he didn’t know if Kawakami would be ready to start because he hadn’t been pitching speaks VOLUMES.
Pure conjecture, but trying to make sense of this (maybe it is just a “cold and unfeeling universe” [tm], but I try to make things make sense).
When Bobby told Kawakami about the move to the bullpen, KK acted offended (think Brad Clontz, but maybe not in direct confrontation). Bobby and McDowell were having trouble getting KK to do the work he needed between appearances to be ready. In Bobby’s mind, that showed in the one bad appearance in relief (an attitude problem someway or somehow). So, Bobby was through with him then. (KK has not, has not, has NOT pitched badly enough to get this treatment).
Further conjecture:
Wren was probably trying to stay off of Bobby on KK, but is probably about to get VERY irritated over the “player has a bad attitude, I’ll trash his value” approach.
@18
this is bobby’s last year. frank will grin and bear it.
Braves moved up Minor’s minor league start to today. Hmm.
@18
Honestly, I’m looking forward to seeing what kind of moves Wren makes when he’s not being forced to cater to Old Man Cox. I’m just hoping Bobby’s “special assistant” role doesn’t lead to more moves like the stupid Yunel one.
As much as I would like to see Minor, I think the Braves have got to give KK another shot – because there’s a significant chance he’ll do pretty well and can re-establish himself as a decent, middle of the rotation starter. Assuming he can keep his head above water, KK would be a potential trade candidate in the offseason. However, if the Braves persist in sitting KK, they’ll destroy any minimal trade value KK has and we’ll have no option to offload him.
New poll.
looking at the free agent OFs that will be available.. I’m getting the feeling that JJ will be traded
Purely anecdotal here, but I watched Kawakami’s last few starts and I have to say it looked like the league had “figured him out”. Every ball was hit solid, and most were hits. Watching him pitch against the Rays was painful. I have not seen that from any other Braves starter this season….not even Lowe.
I say bring up Minor.
My two cents.
JJ wont get traded in Medlen need TJ surgery.
So Mark Cuban got screwed by the MLB old boy’s club (I picture a group akin to Mr. Burns’ League of Evil) in his bid for the Rangers, should we start hoping he turns his sights to Atlanta? How much longer does Liberty Media need to hold on to them for tax shelter purposes? Two years?
I think cliff may have hit the nail squarely on the head with that post. While I feel that KK has been better, and statistical analysis shows it, than most of the fans think, I can’t honestly say that it’s really hurting the team for him not to pitch.
I disagree about Wren and Cox though as I’ve yet to see any evidence that Wren is his own man. I’ve felt for quite some time that Cox is now the true power behind the GM throne. This was not at all how things were under Schuerholz.
Well, if true, you could do a lot worse than the guy who drafted Tom Glavine and Chipper Jones and traded for John Smoltz.
@24,
If Medlin has a visit with Dr James Andrews, there is no way we trade JJ next year.
Didn’t Wren axe Glavine against Bobby’s wishes? Before Bobby announced his retirement in advance, wasn’t all the talk about tension between Bobby and Wren forcing Bobby out of the picture?
j-man,
No doubt tht Cox’ influence over decision making is much more than almost any other manager. I think he deserves that TO A POINT.
I do believe he is specifically the one that brought us Loaf, put Yunel on the road to Toronto (and I might have done the same thing, but it really seemed to be a waste), got them to commit the 4th year and the full 15 to Lowe (Wren and Schuerholz would have probably held it at 3 years 14.5 to 15 if they weren’t trying to give Bobby one last shot at postseason glory).
No matter how respected the field manager is, the Front Office needs to be communicating organizational objectives. there is no way I don’t believe that Wren should have accepted the “throw KK to the curve” mentality that has seemed to prevail.
Adam,
Not sure why anyone would want Bobby to go. He isn’t the best manager in the game, but he has to be in the top 5. We aren’t going to replace him with anyone currently in the top five.
Question,
How does DL affect “service time” for arb and FA purposes?
As in Medlen. If he is out does he still draw Major League minimum? (I think he does unless they non tender him this fall and they won’t do that).
Is his arb clock still running even if he is not available to play until this time next year (or later)?
In our situation, Bobby laid the foundation to the direction the orgainization has taken. While you are dead on in most casese, Cliff, in our situation Bobby should have a strong say of whom we bring in and let go.
This path we have taken did win a World Championship and 14 division titles in a row.
I honor Bobby Cox for his service and believe he did the right thing by announcing that this is his last year.
Mac,
Ed Wade drafted Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, Cole Hamels, Brett Myers and Pat Burrell. Just saying…sometimes you get lucky.
Smitty,
Is Bobby Cox a top five manager right now? Let’s see: Mike Sciosia, Bud Black, Ozzie Guillen, Tony LaRussa(ugh),Joe Giraldi, Terry Francona, Joe Torre, I may even put Gardenhire and Leyland ahead of Bobby at the moment….damn didn’t even realize how many good managers are out there.
@34, Medlen, being on the Major League Disabled List, accrues service time through the rest of this year. However, since he has less than three years service time, he’s not going to be a Super Two, and his contract doesn’t cover next year, he can be sent to the minors as a disabled player between the end of the season and the filing of the Reserve List, and he will not accrue service next year until he is called up.
At least, I think that’s how it works. Anyone can feel free to correct me.
Ozzie a better manager than Bobby? Not sure about that.
@33, My impression was that Bobby’s retirement announcement was the result of an agreement between him and Wren.
I can’t say if his in-game management was particularly bad last year vs other years, but more people on this blog complained about it than I can recall in the last several years. I don’t think that escaped Wren’s notice in a year marked by precious little sentimentality in Wren’s decision-making.
I really don’t think Wren is powerless before Bobby. Even if that were truer that I think it is, Bobby’s leverage has to be greatly reduced by the fact that he’s leaving.
I don’t subscribe to the Great Man theory of management. Cox and Scheurholz have two lifetimes of experience in the game, and Wren would be a fool not to listen to them and integrate their viewpoints into his decision-making. Yes, that makes it more difficult to apportion blame when something goes wrong, and we all want to be able to do that. But this organization has a brain trust, which beats a one-man, top-down style any day of the week.
Been away from the site for a few days — was at the Hudson-Santana match-up, and you can all thank me — but a few comments:
1. I would love to have Ozzie Guillen as our next manager.
2. The Kawakami situation is really weird and, I agree, embarrassing.
3. Are the rumors about releasing Glaus serious? That would be very weird. Why not just DL him?
4. There’s an awful lot of whining around here — granted, mostly from the usual suspects — about a first-place team with a very strong run differential and a favorable down-the-stretch schedule.
I can’t believe the trashing of Bobby Cox. Granted, his tactical moves are sometimes questionable (as they are for almost any manager that has ever lived)but this guy has had an inestimable effect on building the Braves from a joke of an organization to the point where, the last few years notwithstanding, they considered a model organization. (Admittedly that may not be as deserved as it used to be.) People are acting as if Bobby is going to be Lady Macbeth and be some sinister presence forcing Frank Wren to make dumb moves. I think that’s really unfair. If Frank Wren doesn’t have the balls to make his own decisions, he shouldn’t be a major league general manager.
As for him being a “top five” manager, what does that even mean? Basically, fans always think someone else is better than the guy they have. Do you think Dodger fans are enamored with Joe Torre now? Jim Leyland–give me a break. You are just putting these guys ahead of Bobby because you don’t see them manage every day. I’m not saying Bobby doesn’t do some questionable things, but, really, how many fans think their manager is any good unless they win the World Series. Lots of Twins fans think Gardenhire is an idiot.
I guess it really is “what have you done for me lately” now. Chipper Jones–f** him, he’s a bum. Bobby Cox–senile bastard. Were people saying dump Hank Aaron in 1974? Of course, the Braves, with a, to be kind, mediocre lineup, are in first place, but so what? When the Braves win, Bobby is lucky, when they lose, it’s his fault. That’s not to say that there aren’t things he does that drives me crazy, e.g. running relief pitchers into the ground), but I think he deserves some credit for having a moderately talented team ahed of a much more talented team.
What people here really don’t like, I think, is that Bobby, like virtually all managers today in MLB, doesn’t subscribe to sabermetric theory. He bunts too much and things like that. I think that’s regrettable, but it’s the norm, not the exception and probably will be for a long time.
Adam, do you really think Wren is listening to people on this blog in evaluating Bobby Cox’s managing?
I think the 3-day trip to the minors tells us all we need to know about the Cox / Wren dynamic. I’ll bet my house that it wasn’t Wren that wanted to call Frenchy back up so quickly.
Shame, too. If Francouer had found enough humility to change his approach at the plate, it might not have been necessary to get rid of him.
As my old management professor used to say, “Nothing changes until the conviction of sin is reached.” Francouer’s natural talent and box office appeal was enough to get him to the majors – but not enough to stay, I predict.
—————
How’s Basil doing in the polls?
I just can’t get over somebody on this blog liking Tony LaRussa more than Bobby Cox. Personally or professionally.
@22- I’m torn, too. I’m excited about Minor, but I don’t think we should just give up on KK.
I like Bobby Cox as a manager because he has a great history with pitching staffs, managing workload and eliciting unusual performance. It seems like that matters more than the odd tactical decision that goes the wrong way, but I don’t have numbers to back it up or anything.
My dream guy is Maddon. I know he’s happy in Tampa, but what if the Braves tripled his salary? It would still be less than what Cox makes. No matter how happy you are in a situation, it would be hard to turn down three times the money.
After the season, I plan to write a Who’s Next post, if the successor hasn’t been named yet. I guess that the internal candidates are TP, Chino, and the Snit, the principal external candidates Fredi and Ozzie G.
@47, and even harder to walk away from a loaded ballclub like TB. No chance.
I would think that Eddie Perez is a much more likely internal candidate than either Cadahia or Snitker. After Ozzie, Eddie would probably be my preference.
Forgot Eddie, he’s a candidate certainly.
@43, No, of course not. What I meant to say was: I don’t think that Bobby’s in-game tactical failures escaped Wren’s notice in a year marked by precious little sentimentality in Wren’s decision-making. Again, I can’t say if they really were more noticeable last year, but I do remember more discussion of his failures last year, compared to other years, and not just on here. It definitely slipped through from the beat reporters before Bobby’s retirement announcement, and you know what that means.
Tony,
Granted, but none of those guys are going to manage the Braves next season. And I would even dispute some of those names. I think Chip could manage the Yankees to the playoffs.
Stu,
I agree with what you said @42 100%
I still can’t believe we didn’t try to buy low on Ellsbury
@44,
I live in Tennessee and sadly, Basil might be one of the better canidates.
(NOT A POLITCAL DISSCUSSION, JUST A LOT OF GOV. CANIDATES.)
I don’t think Cadahia or Snitker have a chance. Unless TP, Freddie, Eddie and several other turn it down.
I would also add Yost to the external list and McDowell to the internal list (though I don’t think either will get it)
I don’t think Yost is a candidate. KC signed him to an extension last week.
Yes, the Yost extension takes him off the table. I think Ozzie’s a candidate because his relationship with the Chisox front office is a bit fraught.
his relationship with the Chisox front office is a bit fraught.
Absolutely true, but if he hangs on to another division title, it will be very hard to pry him away. KW hates him, but understands that his leaving would be politically bad after any kind of postseason berth.
@43 I appreciate your appreciation of Bobby Cox. What does a top five manager mean? Well I guess it probably means, if you had to pick the best five managers in MLB right now…who would they be? Obviously Bobby is in your top five, and that’s cool, but he is not on my list. I like Bobby, I just think he has hung around a little too long. Sort of like one of my all-time favorites, Tom Landry.
@45 I don’t know either man personally, so I cannot comment, professionally I would say they are about equal.
In my head it’s going to be either Fredi, Eddie, or TP… and I think Fredi seems most likely. Not that my dream isn’t still to get Maddux back in a Braves uniform.
@61,
For somereason, pitchers usually don’t make good managers. But I would never doubt Maddux
It might be worth promoting Snitker to the big chair just to get him away from third base.
62—That doesn’t appear to be factually accurate.
Money paragraph:
Rule #1) Never doubt Greg Maddux.
Not sure we need a rule #2.
I have a feeling that they have already put the feelers out to Fredi.
I don’t know why you wouldn’t doubt Greg Maddux just because he was a great pitcher. I have no reason to think he would be a particularly good manager. He could be but I never got the feeling that this was something he would want to do. More importantly, I wouldn’t bring in someone with no managing experience at any level. I don’t think you do that with a contending team.
@63, you know, I hadn’t thought about it, but THAT might actually be worse than having the zombie we have impersonating a major league 3rd base coach. I’m serious. Did you see the look he had when they showed him in the dugout last night? I’m telling you. Is “Snitker” Lithuanian for “zombie”?
@ 47 I agree. Cox is better than just about everybody at placing his players in positions where they can succeed. When they do succeed, the player gets all the credit. When they fail, Cox gets all the blame. Two years from now, a lot of Cox haters will be losing their religion.
I’m not sure he would WANT to (he probably wouldn’t want to right now actually), but after that time in LA where he called a game from the dugout for another pitcher I’m not one to doubt him.
Granted, you probably wouldn’t start him as the manager without any experience at it. I think ideally I’d want them to sign Fredi on for 2-3 years (his time in FL seems to indicate he knows what to do at the job, even with idiot owners), with Greg taking over as pitching coach (nothing against McDowell per se… he’s just not god, and Greg is) and then after Fredi’s time is up moving Greg into the manager role.
@62 Budd Black seems to be doing pretty well.
If Frank Wren doesn’t have the balls to make his own decisions, he shouldn’t be a major league general manager.
Winner!
When they do succeed, the player gets all the credit. When they fail, Cox gets all the blame.
The ‘I trust Frank’ folks have turned this into when there is a good personal move, that’s all Frank, when there is a dumb one, Bobby made him do it. No one knows how much input Bobby has but the final call is always with Wren – even when it doesn’t work out in the end.
38,
Players on the disabled list can’t be optioned to the minors.
72—Well, I trust Frank, and I’ve never said Bobby makes him do anything. I think there’s a middle ground.
Would the buttoned-down Braves’ organization really consider a loose gun like Ozzie Guillen as the next manager? I live in Chicago and think he’s a terific manager and a great showman. He loves the spotlight and makes sure that maximum attention is focused on him. He does not seem afraid to say what he thinks and to be outrageous when it suits his purposes. What a change it would be from the players-first, no controversy approach of Bobby Cox.
#75 – It’s hard to say, but I sure hope so. It will be pretty disappointing if they just default to Fredi or TP just for the sake of stability. I don’t think either of those guys brings much to the table.
Jose Guillen DFAd. We’re not that desperate.
Back from a long vacation without any form of long distance communication other than smoke signals.
What makes Guillen a realistic manager candidate for us other than the fact that he might be available because he’s not liked by the Sox FO? He might be trendy, but he’s way too incendiary for a place like the Braves.
TP, Fredi, Yost, Cadahia, or Snitker would be depressing. I probably wouldn’t mind Glenn Hubbard, Roger McDowell, Eddie, Ozzie Guillen, or Torre too much.
New thread. I went ahead and wrote the manager post.