489 thoughts on “July ends game thread: July 31, Braves at Reds”

  1. Wren appears to have learned one thing — don’t tip your hand. It’s hard to find any Braves-related rumors at all today.

  2. It seems to me that if you were willing to part with a top 25 in all of baseball kind of prospect, the offseason is the time to do it.

    I’d still love to see something happen today, though.

  3. Probably not. The Cards being the Cards, they probably are pretty particular about what veteran pitchers they import. Duncan says that he can give that one a boost, and they get that one.

  4. looking at kenshin’s overall numbers

    239IP 245H 85BB 162K 4.17ERA 1.38WHIP

    I dont see how Bobby lost so much faith in him and how some team wouldnt take a shot on trading for him

  5. Now come on. Why would Ludwick, a righty, be this bad against lefties:


    Even the guys I can’t have it turns out I don’t actually want..

    EDIT: bad being a relative term

  6. Schafer is off to a slow start in Double A. Hopefully he’s not beyond repair at this point.

  7. The Funk = Adam Dunn

    We want the Funk. Gotta have the Funk. NOW. We want the Funk. Gotta have that Funk.

  8. @1 You are absolutely correct. The less we are hearing, the more I think the Braves will do something today.

  9. What if a deal with Minor were to also include Lowe or KK? Maybe Wren could somehow work that out. Give up a top 25 prospect, but also free up a lot of salary for next year. Might soften the blow.

  10. If we make a trade that really improves the club today, we will be trading at least one minor league pitcher that none of us wants to trade. Mark it down. Price of doing business.

  11. @9

    Well, they did make him stop taking HGH, so that might have something to do with it.

  12. If they are able to deal Lowe, fine. But I’d almost rather not trade Minor even if we unload KK too. I mean, of course the return matters. But I have yet to hear of a realistic trade target that warrants selling off a young, cost-controlled starting pitcher with a high ceiling.

    I understand what the cost of “doing business is,” and it’s far more likely that that cost will outweigh the benefit in the long run.

  13. Just a reminder to everyone: we are still in first place, 3 1/2 games up…since I know at some point today the discussion will turn to a point where it seems like we’re in third place, 5 1/2 games back.

  14. How could Brent Clevlen have been out of options? Did he not begin the season on the 40 man roster? If he began the year on the 40, but not on the 25, wouldn’t he have been OPTIONED to triple-A? That option lasts all season.

    Unless he was out of options when we signed him, and we didn’t put him on the 40 until we brought him up earlier this year, then he was DL’ed, then activated, and in order to send him down, then we had to designate him.

  15. I watched Schafer play twice this season. He had a real horrible attitude on top of the bad play. Went O-fer in both games, lots of flinging the bat away in disgust, clearly pouting in the field, sulking on the bench. Noticed no one was coming over to him and patting him on the back or trying to buck him up. It really looked like his teammates didn’t think much of him.

    Obvious caveat that I may have been reading too much into it. Maybe the other guys had learned he liked to be left alone and he was clearly acting out of frustrated at not playing well.

    Still, I came away having soured on him. He gives off a pricky vibe.

  16. I think that’s probably very good news. Anyone expecting him to be back tomorrow wasn’t being very realistic.

  17. If it’s ten days I would DL him and expect him back in two weeks. Then again, since his roster spot will be used by a horrible position player or a reliever Bobby won’t ever use, we might as well hope he heals in a week.

  18. More wild speculation. Schafer still looks like he could bench something that gets good mileage, so I wouldn’t rule out his having found something that they haven’t figured out how to detect yet.

  19. With a pinky injury (like Andre Ethier had earlier this year) the principal problem is pain. You don’t really use your pinky to grip a bat or a ball, but it hurts when you swing the bat.

  20. DL him, we should be fine with Infante and Diory is hitting .300 again in Gwinnett. The extra bit of rest can’t hurt. He’s played a lot this year.

  21. If Infante gets hurt, I think we’d have to go with a five-man infield. Right to left: Diaz, Conrad, Chipper, Hinske, Glaus. Outfield of Heyward and Blanco.

    Kidding, sort of.

  22. No one could possibly get this joke but me… But when I try to think of what kind of person Chief is, I see this homeless guy Ray Ray who walks around downtown Fort Myers. Chief just swings in to say really doomy things that are completely irrelevant to any conversation going on… That’s what Ray Ray does.


  23. Standing Pat: The Story of the 2010 Atlanta Braves.

    Don’t mind that at all. Frank’s trades tend to be God awful.

  24. @28 They haven’t figured out how to test for HGH yet, that test they just put into the minor leagues is a joke. At best it can only detect it for a few hours after taking it and it’s only caught 1 person in it’s entire existence. I don’t remember the particulars of how Schafer got busted but it wasn’t for failing a test, more like being a complete fool. Anyway if he wanted to he could have just keep taking it and probably did.

  25. “Frank’s trades tend to be God awful.”

    Not sure I agree with that.

    Wasn’t Schafer caught in possession or on a receipt list? I think he claimed to be holding it for someone else.

  26. “They aren’t my cigarettes, dad, I was holding them for my friend!”

    “The Giants are still checking in on Dunn but the Nationals still want Jonathan Sanchez or Madison Bumgarner…”

    We could beat that, couldn’t we?

  27. Robert’s comment is mostly about the Yunel trade, I think.

    Bethany – Minor probably isn’t as valuable as Bumgarner. I don’t think 2 months of Dunn is worth 6 years of Minor, either.

    Schafer continues to disappoint. That fancy pitching machine he bought didn’t help him too much against the Tony Armas Jr’s of the world.

  28. ““The Giants are still checking in on Dunn but the Nationals still want Jonathan Sanchez or Madison Bumgarner…”

    We could beat that, couldn’t we?”

    Not really–unless we deal Teheran. I mean, we could deal Delgado and Minor, but that would be insane. Also keep in mind that if the Giants make a deal like that, most of the worthwhile baseball commentators will turn their bemused eyes from Phoenix to San Francisco in order to heap scorn upon Brian Sabean.

  29. @55 Well rats.

    Ideally, I think they should get someone from the Ross, Willingham group AND rent Dunn, but apparently we aren’t going to get in on any of these awesome deals where you get great players at little player and financial cost.

    It’s a shame Schafer crashed so hard. If he had turned out decently, our outfield looks a lot better right now.

  30. we could beat what? Bumgarner or Sanchez? we could, but I wouldnt trade either one of those for 1/2 season of Dunn. Id say Medlen is our equivalent to Bumgarner right now. No way Id move Medlen for Dunn

  31. @58 is why this team will never win anything anymore. Just gross. A #4/#5 potential starter(Medlen will never be an ace or even #2 starter) for a guy that can hit potentially 50 HR in a season, are you out of your mind?

  32. “Id say Medlen is our equivalent to Bumgarner right now.”

    I’d disagree with that. You’re dramatically under-selling Bumgarner there.

  33. According to DOB, the Braves are working on several trade possibilities for hitters and relivers. Exciting…..

  34. From DOB:

    “Braves are still working on several trade possibilities, hitters and relievers. Reasonable chance that something will get done by 4 p.m.”

    I’m nervous.

  35. The collective opinion of our bloggers just keeps holding our real life team back!

  36. @60
    while i agree with you that he’s undervaluing bumgarner, medlen’s 3.84 era as a starter is already a good #3. i think medlen could easily be a #2 starter.

  37. No way, Mac, no way. A #2 starter maybe on the Pirates/Royals/bottom feeder.

  38. Even I wouldn’t do Melden for Dunn… Wouldn’t do Medlen for anything except someone like Braun.

    Great idea, putter!

  39. There’s no sense arguing with Chief, but #60 was particularly bad. 4 seasons of Medlen is worth so, so much more than 10-15 home runs from Dunn.

    @53 – “Which one of these buttons calls your parents to come pick you up?”

  40. @62 Yeah, it is exciting. I’d love to go full metal squeeee here in a bit. We’ll see soon…

  41. Braves fans ALWAYS ALWAYS overvalue our own players. That is the number one rule of Braves Club. We have three untradable players IMO, Hudson, McCann and Heyward, maybe Prado and Jurrjens. EVERYONE else is tradable.

  42. “while i agree with you that he’s undervaluing bumgarner, medlen’s 3.84 era as a starter is already a good #3. i think medlen could easily be a #2 starter.”

    I had a feeling someone would take issue with my comment. I should be clear: I love Medlen. While I’m not willing to say he’s a #2 starter, he can be an above-average starter, especially in the National League. My point, however, is about Bumgarner. He’s a controversial prospect, in part because his velocity fell off last year, but everything I’ve read suggests that he has gained a lot of it back and, with it, his strikeout potential. Until the end of 2009 he had a top-of-the-rotation ceiling. My guess is that clubs will deal for him with that possibility in mind. They wouldn’t deal for Medlen with that assumption. Thus Bumgarner probably has more value.

    Of course, Medlen may well end up being the better pitcher. I hope he does, and I hope he does it in Atlanta. Like I said, I’m a big fan.

  43. How many guys are in the MLB pitching with a 3.50 ERA or are capable of it? Now, how many guys in MLB or MiLB ‘could’ hit 55 HR in a season?

    Drop dead stupid.

  44. Like Hyman Roth, I’m going to go and take a nap. When I wake up, hopefully we have a deal.

  45. Get Dunn. Who cares about corner outfield defense? That’s the place you’re supposed to hide the bad-fielding sluggers in the NL.

  46. 76 wins the thread.

    Better leave the suitcase of Pirate cash on the table, Wren, or you’ve got to choke Johnny O on the balcony.

  47. I’d imagine Tommy Hanson cares about corner outfield defense.

    I’d imagine Tommy Hanson cares more about the team scoring runs when he pitches.

  48. I’m guessing that we will pick up Ellsbury for KK plus a minor leaguer and cash. We need a CF, the Sox need someone in the pen to keep Okajima company.

  49. Bullshit.

    You’ve got a way with words Pete. I’m convinced. Thanks for your input.

    Robert’s comment is mostly about the Yunel trade, I think.

    That’s the most recent atrocity but I’ve been vocal about some of the others as well. Don’t want to go through thee preseason stuff agian but people are seriously happy with the return for Teixiera? Kotchman (useless) and Marek (ditto)? If the Nats GM turns Dunn into a league average firstbaseman and a AAA reliever do you think he did a good job? Some how it all gets glossed over. Tex was about the biggest trade chip we’ve ever had and he crapped all over it. We gave at least two all-stars to get him and got nothing back.

    I call Wren the magician. He makes All-Stars (Tex, Soriano, etc) disappear *poof* without a trace. He’s unveiled a new trick this year, the old misdirection. First place team, in all out win-now mode, and *poof* traded for a aging .290 OBP player and weakened the team for the second half. Didn’t see that coming. *Ta-Da!* A big hand for The Amazing Frank!

  50. @81

    Yeah, I like that. Peanut can be Fredo. Wren can be Michael

    “Frank, you don’t come to Atlanta and talk to John Schuerholz like that!”

  51. since the game today seems like an afterthought…

    Infante 4
    Heyward 9
    Jones 5
    McCann 2
    Glaus 3
    Hinske 7
    Gonzalez 6
    Cabrera 8
    Jurrjens 1

    Phillips 4
    Cabrera 6
    Votto 3
    Rolen 5
    Gomes 7
    Bruce 9
    Stubbs 8
    Hanigan 2
    Arroyo 1

  52. Id say at this point, there’s about a 10% chance the Braves make a move. We havent been linked to anything, something wouldve come out by now

  53. 10% chance, huh? how’d you come up with the calculations? yankees about to add kerry wood as well.

    wood, berkman, kearns…that’s one hell of a trade deadline.

  54. Worst tweet yet:

    “#Royals #Yankees #trades rumors gaining steam. Greinke, Soria, Bloomquist mentioned. Royals covet Park, Russo and Vechionacci.”

    If the Royals trade Greinke to the freaking Yankees….

    grain of salt….grain of salt……..

  55. Agreed. #76 gets the game thread gold medal.

    Just to be on the same page. We are all comfortable with Bethany suffering some kind of catastrophic knee injury if it means the world series, right?

    I didn’t realize that Schafer hadn’t failed a drug test. In that case he’s CLEARLY still taking something. If he washes out of baseball he’ll kill it at the Mr. Redondo Beach Bodybuilding Pageant. So, no tears for him. It’s win/win either way.

  56. cant Soria block a deal to the Yanks? seems like their on his list that he doesnt want to play for

  57. If Wren was Michael Chavez and McLouth would have been found in a car with the cannolis missing long ago.

  58. Also about a 10% chance of winning this division, I’d bet too. Porn won’t Pay!!!

  59. @99
    on the other hand, there’s about a 100% chance that you’d find something to bitch about even if wren traded melky for pujols.

  60. BTW, Adam Dunn’s high in HRs: 46, followed by 40.

    Adam Dunn’s current age: 30.

    Adam Dunn this season: On pace for 37 HRs, according to ZIPS.

    Adam Dunn’s WAR, last three seasons: 1.0, 1.2, 3.0.

    Kris Medlen’s WAR, last two seasons: .9, 1.3

    Adam Dunn’s contract status: FA after 2010 season.

    Adam Dunn’s contract status: FA after 2014 season.

    Adam Dunn’s ability to hit 55 HRs: Non-existent, even after years in The Great American Ballpark, where even Melky Cabrera can hit a HR!

    Chief’s point: Moot.

  61. Chief got up this morning and thought…


  62. Yeah, even with the M’s picking up a lot of his salary, that doesn’t make sense. I mean, Prado’s knuckle is hurt. It’s not like he had it chopped off.

  63. Jerry Crasnick ESPN reports.

    Seattle has approached Atlanta about a Chone Figgins deal. The M’s would have to eat a lot of the $$$

  64. Marek would be an excellent name to throw around in trade talks. He’d probably be Major League ready, too, although he hasn’t pitched at that level yet.

  65. And yet the Braves are making a “late push” for a reliever, supposedly. This seems almost as inexplicable as the general overvaluation of middle relievers league-wide this summer.

  66. I agree with you Robert about the Yunel trade but I think your doing some revisionist history on the Tex trade. The fact is nobody was willing to give up much of anything for him. The demand for hitters was down that year at the deadline anyway and everybody knew there was very little chance of resigning him and figured he would end up with the Yankees, which he did.

  67. Yeah, if we’re seriously looking for a reliever, we should call up either Marek or Kimbrel. I don’t think that we are, though.

  68. Why would you go after Figgins when you could target his clone, who just rots in AAA for the Pads?

    I could get behind a Figgins deal, BTW.

  69. Figgins is useful. I’d rather have him on the roster than Melky, but I’m guessing he’d replace Blanco.

  70. Chief, Dunn isn’t going to hit 50 homers in 2 months. We wouldn’t be able to sign him after the season.

  71. Figgins has a modest four-game hit streak going that has included three multi-hit games. He’s hit .393 (11-for-28) since having a spat with his manager last Friday, and the altercation may have been just what Figgins needed to set his bat on fire.

    Clearly with a regular “spat” infusion he’ll be fine.

  72. Of course, Marek has an 0.57 ERA and 56/12 K/BB.

    That’s something I guess. He was so terrible last year I stopped following that thread. He’ll be 27 soon (Sep) and is still in AAA, somehow I doubt he’s going to do much to balance out that deal.

  73. Obviously, as the tweets have noted, the Ms would have to kick in some serious cash. Minor+ or Delgado+ for Figgins, League/Aardsma, and cash — get it done, Wren.

  74. I do think we shouldn’t discount the cool name spelling and the lack of a clear Bravesjournal whipping boy. So, to recap. Awesome first name. Fits a need.

  75. Figgins is signed for three more years — until he’s 35 — at $9 million per.

    35 is nothing for this team. That’s usually the age when the multiyear deal starts here.

  76. I’m sure it got lost in the noise, but I appreciate your eyes-on-the-ground reporting about Schafer @23, jdpeace. What’s up with that guy?!?

  77. A lot of love for Minor now. Seems I recall when the Braves drafted him; many here disliked Minor and called him things like a future fourth starter and stated the Braves wasted their top draft pick.

  78. My barber says:

    Chip Caray and the giant cow at the Ted for John Miller.

    Get it done Frank!

  79. 134—If we deal him, I want it to be to a team we don’t have to see much of. I will die if he’s a Marlin or a National.

  80. Figgins.. so we trade Yunel for Jeff Francoeur, and then we’re even entertaining the idea of trading prospects for Yunel because he can play CF now?

    Wren, I know you’re better than this. Please don’t talk to the Ms for the rest of the day.

  81. Re Figgins–no thanks. Might be worth a look if the M’s ate some $$ and he still played some CF but he doesn’t seem to have played CF for several years.

    The M’s might be one of the best possible fits for KK so he might head to Seattle if a deal does happen.

  82. 143—Stick him in center. Have really good Prado/Chipper insurance. If he’s cheap enough, a super-utility guy like that seems like a valuable piece.

  83. If our big move turns out to a middle relief RH pitcher, it will be the knife in my heart that confirms LM doesn’t give a shit about this team.

    Not that I needed one.

    Will Ohman was just traded to a mystery team.. FML.

  84. Figgins could play CF this year, move to third next year. But the M’s would have to eat a LOT of contract. Like give us $10 million AND take KK, or better yet, Lowe.

  85. #147 – I’m skeptical. We already have a superutility guy and plenty of centerfielders who don’t hit.

  86. To be fair, Figgins was unbelievable last season and very good for a few years before that. He also is very good at 3B, where he’d play after this season (presumably). If the M’s ate a lot of money I’d be behind that too.

  87. I’m okay with figgins for kk straight up. If we add prospects, they eat dollars. But I was hoping for a little more substance.

  88. “Tigers trade Wilkin Ramirez to #Braves for PTBNL or cash” — according to Jason Beck (?).

  89. DOB is hinting to Figgins and Brandon League.

    If they eat $$$, might not be bad. Figgins > McMelco

  90. @135 Thanks. It wasn’t much of a report. Just that when you see him in person he comes off as immature and unlikeable. Considering the number of immature, unlikeable baseball stars it’s probably not what’s holding him back.

    Just in those two games he wasn’t very patient at the plate and was trying to jack everything which tended to lead to a lot of high fly balls and pop-outs. Really distracted in the outfield. Terrible jumps on everything so some doubles that should have been singles and singles that should have been caught. But no errors!

    The jersey can’t contain the Schulk though. With his shirt off I bet he looks majestic.

    Freeman is amazing. Really smooth easy swing and he murders the ball. He also looks seven feet tall in person.

  91. he’s position listed on baseball-reference is “pinch-runner and outfielder”. hilarious.

  92. DOB: “Stay tuned, #Braves fans. Might be a relatively big trade announcement soon. Bigger than Wilkin Ramirez, for sure.”


  93. Ick. Yet another AAA outfielder. Honestly, do we have a bounty on these guys?

    Jason Heyward reaches on a swinging bunt + error, Infante comes around to score.

  94. He did enter the season as the Tiger’s 8th best prospect apparently so maybe there is something there it just isn’t going to help us this season.

  95. Ankiel and Farnsworth. YUCK.

    Lol. Round two with Farnsworth. Awesome. Everybody, it’s Frank The Great! Ta-Da! Didn’t see that coming!

  96. Hahaha… Farnsworth? FARNSWORTH? God dammit, I hate Kyle Farnsworth.

    Wilkin at least has more of a future in professional baseball than Mitch Jones.

  97. I actually think Farnsworth is the bigger piece there.

    Royals get P Jesse Chavez, OF Gregor Blanco and P Tim Collins

  98. Oh, good God almighty. This isn’t as pathetic as that Royals-Mets deal bandied about earlier this week, but it’s close. Anything more than a used lottery ticket and we got hosed.

  99. Well, Dayton Moore likes our rejects, so hopefully it’s some of them.

    I’m not looking forward to the Rick Ankiel experience.

  100. Here’s the chat excerpt from the fangraphs guys on the trade:

    [Comment From AntsinIN]
    Royals get P Jesse Chavez, OF Gregor Blanco and P Tim Collins from #Braves for Farnsworth and Ankiel as CBSSports.com reported.

    Dave Cameron: So, basically, nothing.

    Zach Sanders: Wow, that is awful return.

    Dave Cameron: I know a few people like Collins, but my feeling is they like the story more than the talent.

    Zach Sanders: Good work by the Braves.

  101. @187
    thats not a bad trade. 2 of those 3 would have never seen significant time in a braves uniform and trading collins from a position of strength.

  102. Wilkin seems to have some power and speed but strikes out way too much to be taken seriously. Schafer-esque really.

  103. So we took the one good piece from the Yunel trade and flipped it for this??! Along with Blanco? I would rather have Blanco than Ankiel, this sucks.

  104. Yeah, adding bad players you will use for bad players you are not using is not a good deal.

  105. We somehow managed to downgrade the CF position. I’d much rather have Blanco than Ankiel.

  106. are people really complaining about losing Blanco? wow, is Ankiel THAT bad off of steroids?

  107. Ankiel can hit righties well and Farnsworth is solid. That’s a good trade. The infatuation with Blanco is ridiculous.

  108. Maybe we’ll get to see Ankiel pitch in the 15th inning before the end of the season. Think of the suspense!

  109. They were so great at walking earlier in the year, why the sudden infuse of guys like Ankiel and Gonzalez who swing at everything?

  110. My goodness, if only the reaction were this intense when the Braves stupidly traded for Alex Gonzalez!

    Blanco is a 5th outfielder. Nobody outside the Braves fanbase–and evidently Dayton Moore–thinks of him as more than that. Ankiel can hit for power and platoon in CF against righties. Farnsworth is a solid reliever.

  111. #211 – It seems there is a better than average chance that the front office doesn’t realize patience is the key to our offense.

  112. Farnsworth and Ankiel are failures and miserable human beings that suck. That is all.

  113. Ankiel is owed 1.7 million

    Professor Farnsworth 2.5 million.


    So… the braves are adding like 4 million for 2010.

    What a waste!

  114. Oh no, we got TWO MLB baseball players for a guy with a 5.00 ERA that throws batting practice straight fastballs, a guy that can’t hit MLB pitching but tries hard, and a suspect that is probably a 10% shot to make it. Just terrible!!! /sarcasm/

  115. Farnsworth will always be the guy that imploded in Game 4 of the NLDS and ended the dynasty. Do not want.

  116. 212 — Ankiel is making 6 million (though that’s prorated for the rest of this season) with a 6 million option or 500K buyout for next season.

    Also, he had a .265 OBP…in Triple A.

  117. I had the distinct impression that Ankiel was just about done as a major league ballplayer. And Farnsworth…ugh. Not a big fan today.

  118. Ankiel does have a .973 OPS in 8 games since coming off the DL.

    Chavez and Blanco stink. The big loss is Collins.

  119. The piece here is Farnsworth. Having another power arm in the late innings is important down the stretch given age and durability concerns with what we have. If everyone stays healthy and effective then the bullpen is really loaded. Getting rid of Chavez is a plus also. He caused me to break out in hives even when he warmed up.

    Still a bit disappointed we didn’t land a stick in the outfield. Seems the price was high on anyone who was a difference maker though, and i’d rather deal for that in the offseason. I liked Gregor Blanco, but he’s a back of the roster guy.

  120. Supposedly theres some cash involved too, though how much and whether it really matters, I don’t know.

  121. I don’t expect much of Ankiel, but Farnsworth should be a great improvement over Chavez. I am also relieved that we did not give up any of our elite prospects.

    Collins ia good prospect–but we with Dunn and O’Flaherty ahead of him, it is unclear what he would do in Atlanta.

    It could have been much worse…..

  122. Ankiel does have a .973 OPS in 8 games since coming off the DL.

    Well I guess that swamps the .280 OBP he put up last season in 400+ PAs

  123. From Twitter


    True story: Braves were obligated to take Ankiel on a “you broke it, you bought it” theory.

  124. There probably was. Moore like his Braves rejects.

    Now, if we were Dodgers fans, on the other hand, things would be looking much worse. Coletti just gutted his system again.

  125. Has anybody looked at Farnsworth’s numbers? He’s having a very good year.

    Complaining about losing Gregor fucking Blanco is a low point in this blogs history. Get a grip, people.

  126. If all we had sent the Royals was a 6 pack of Busch I would be saying we overpaid. It’s not about who gave up as much as who we got back. And because we traded for these clowns I have a bad feeling Bobby will use them more then he should.

  127. Hanan, the problem is that said power arm is good mostly for souvenirs. Why did we trade Chavez for someone with ERAs of 4.38, 4.80, 4.48 and 4.58 from 06-09? His 2.42 for this year screams “fluke!” I guess we saved Dayton Moore’s job, though.

  128. The Farnz is having a good year. Wonder why there wasn’t more interest in him.

    Could be because he’s Kyle Farnsworth. And the 4+ ERA he’s put up each of the previous four seasons probably didn’t help either.

  129. Too bad we’re done with Milwaukee this year. A Farnsworth/Fielder matchup would have been fun.

  130. “Well I guess that swamps the .280 OBP he put up last season in 400+ PAs”


  131. I was incredibly down on the Gonzalez trade. But Ankiel, if healthy, can help the Braves. They gave up no one of value to get him. Collins was no better than the 15th, or probably 20th-best prospect in the system.

  132. 233 — It appears legit this season though — he has a 3 to 1 K/BB ratio and has allowed only 2 homers.

  133. I was looking forward to seeing Tim Collins pitch for us. Not looking forward to Farnsworth. I truly despise Farnsworth, and I can’t imagine any Braves fan likes him.

    Meanwhile, Jason Heyward is still awesome. Ankiel has a really good arm, too. At least there’s that.

  134. Farnsworth put up good numbers for the Royals with no pressure, he’ll come here and suck I’m sure. I don’t know, maybe I’m letting my hated for him cloud my vision.

  135. This trade is not that bad. Farnsworth is having a pretty good year. Royals threw in cash too. I’m not going to miss Greg White

  136. Well, as long as Heyward the Great is in RF, I’m still pretty excited. What a hell of an arm.

  137. it’ll be interesting to see who goes since we did a 2 for 1.

    edit: nvm…i forgot we just activated blanco.

  138. We basically gave up nothing. Collins is a pretty good prospect but really he’s no sure thing and not a significant loss.

    I don’t have high hopes for Ankiel. The mental part and the roids don’t concern me as much as his ability…he hasn’t been a very good position player.

    Farnsworth is a good pickup though. I guess they were concerned with the back end of the bullpen and didn’t want to have to rely on Marek/Kimbrel/Minor in the playoffs. This solves that problem, and if any of those guys come up late in the year and are lights out, it’s gravy.

    I know we hate him because he left a closers job in Atlanta for a setup job elsewhere, but he’s having a good year and I think he’ll help.

  139. Didn’t Farnsworth do really well the last time he was here? Here’s hoping he can repeat that.

    Not too upset about this. I mean, IF Ankiel can put up the numbers he did a couple of years ago he is a lot better than what we’ve been running out there. Chavez gone, Blanco gone isn’t devastating, but I was kind of interested in Collins. Oh well.

  140. ryan c – Blanco was brought up and Clevlen was DFA’d. This is a 2-2 on the ML rosters.

  141. Ankiel sucks a lot, but he has power, which is more than you can say for anyone else who’s played CF for us this year. Farnsworth is better than Chavez. Collins is Eddie Gaedel with a fastball. We gave up almost nothing and got almost nothing, but again, Farnsworth is better than Chavez. I don’t mind this deal.

    I just hope that, at some point, we actually get someone good.

  142. 247—2 for 2. Righty reliever and center fielder for righty reliever and center fielder.

  143. If we needed Farns for high-pressure situations, then I’d be worried. But he’s fine in the sixth when you’re down by a run, which is how he’ll be used, barring injuries.

    And blanco is Charles Thomas.

  144. “Well I guess that swamps the .280 OBP he put up last season in 400+ PAs”

    And the year before he posted a .360 wOBA in 463 PAs. So what? To say Ankiel is Francoeur or even AAG is to mis-read the stats. He walks around a 7.5% clip. The bigger issue is strikeouts, but you can swallow those if he can slug. And he might be able to slug against righties. If not, so what? He’s the throw in. The Braves, again, gave up very very little.

    Minor for Dunn or Hart, on the other hand, would have been awful.

  145. 251- It’s not Farns’ mean man’s mien that worries me; it’s regression to the mean. Or more appropriately, regression towards mediocrity.

  146. I’m not upset with this deal, just disappointed we didn’t do something better. Very underwhelming. Lefties will still dominate us.

  147. 265- At least he can say he went out a winner. He can’t say much else about his time here that’s both accurate and positive.

  148. You people can’t possibly be whining about this trade, can you? You simply can’t, can you? Give up: our worst ML reliever, a 4th/5th OF and a 5’6″ relief project from the minors. Get a reasonable ML CF option and a quality RH power arm for the stretch.

    Jesus. Braves improve down the stretch. They give up next to nothing. And this crowd cries about it.

    Gregor Blanco isn’t that damned valuable, kids.

  149. Not a bad deal, Im with Stu, I was hoping for a Dunn/Willingham/Ross guy to play center.

    Don’t care about anyone we gave up. They are perfect Royals

  150. @263

    That pretty much sums up my feelings on this one. The fact that we will be seeing much less Melky and no White Flag can’t hurt either.

  151. Yeah, I’m not upset at the deal either. We gave up practically nothing and got practically nothing. It’s just continues to be kind of a sad, scary experience to realize who our front office thinks can “help” this team.

  152. Well, Ankiel was hurt last year, wasn’t he? Trying to look on the bright side, I am still not sure how Ifeel about the move. I don’t feel bad about losing any of those pieces, except maybe Collins, but he would have been a long shot, I suppose.

  153. @259 – I would have taken him up on that offer in ’05 when I was a drunk and devastated 19-year old coping with the fact of his utter implosion.

  154. Millar and this Fox picture shows you that you can, in fact, be worse than Chip.

  155. “t’s just continues to be kind of a sad, scary experience to realize who our front office thinks can “help” this team.”

    What did folks want Wren to do? Had he traded Minor for two months of Dunn this board would have exploded. Had he traded Delgado for Willingham would that have been ok? I wouldn’t have liked it, and I imagine at least half the people here would have disliked it too.

    You can’t claim that Wren is unable to judge talent and deem who can help the team without also taking the talent available into consideration. Farnsworth is unquestionably a useful guy, and Ankiel has some potential to be useful. Neither may pan out, but Wren didn’t give anything away and still managed to bring back potential. That’s good, smart. It doesn’t mean he thinks Ankiel and Farnsworth will definitely put the team over the top, but it does suggest that among the available options this one was the best–and the one most likely to help now without hurting later.

  156. Robert – how much do you put on the ownership group and their unwillingness to add payroll? I hated the Escobar trade too, but that was more Bobby’s deal. I don’t think Frank Wren is the greatest GM in the world, but he’s not Colletti or Wade either.

    We acquired crap that will replace crap. BFD.

  157. Whoa there, Adam. You’re supposed to just blindly hate Wren and any of the moves that he makes.

  158. Ok, we gave up stuff we’ve not really used all year for potentially useful stuff.

  159. Willingham’s arbitration-eligible for one more year, while Dunn is a free agent this offseason, so they’re in slightly different situations. But it sounds like the Nats were looking for more than one good prospect, so just offering Minor or Delgado wouldn’t have been enough. I don’t know exactly how much they wanted, but pretty soon that starts to get ludicrous.

  160. … I don’t think Frank Wren is the greatest GM in the world, but he’s not Colletti or Wade either.

    We acquired crap that will replace crap. BFD.

    I agree with all of this. Ownewship is a factor but the team has a healthy payroll, it’s just misallocated on old, non-elite players. You can’t just expect a blank check, most teams have a budget or ours is not spent all that wisely.

    You’re supposed to just blindly hate Wren and any of the moves that he makes.

    For the record, this trade doesn’t make me hate Wren any more or less. I don’t expect this deal to have any effect on anything really.

  161. I guess the Farns is in ATL so that Venters doesn’t have to risk another potential suspension.

    If a brawl breaks out, our pen can be helpful. The Farns…
    KK, the silent ninja…
    and I have to believe that Moylan isn’t to be messed with.

  162. I don’t see a reason why the Nats wouldn’t exercise Willingham’s option for next year. They’re moving in the right direction and he’ll still be worth his contract. As for Dunn, yes, I would have tried to move him, but it’s possible that–like always–the market for Dunn was far smaller than many of us think it should be.

  163. Farnsworth might have a fastball that’s straighter than Chavez’s. If that’s possible.

  164. After a quick ride to the carnival with my daughter I had time to digest the trade more.

    I know that we upgraded our team slightly at 2 positions, but I just hate Farnsworth.

    Ankiel has some power potenetial that Blanco does not have so it gives us a possible boost.
    Farnsworth is better then Chavez.
    In the end it is an upgrade, and it may be enough to help us hold our division lead of 3.5 games.

  165. I’m just upset that Collins is gone. Would have liked to see him racking up K’s for the Braves (assuming that he can).

  166. good grief folks…we gave up one decent piece in Collins, a AAAA OF’r, and a terrible reliever

  167. The problem with this deal is that Wren may pressure Cox to give these guys more playing time than they deserve- which is not much in August and almost none in September, when minor-league callups are available.

  168. If Ankiel plays badly can we call him Chone Ankiel? I just really feel like we missed out not having someone named Chone on the team.

  169. I’ve always been a Rick Ankiel fan. I hope he does some good for us.

    The talking heads seem to agree that we have a devastating bullpen now.

  170. so are we upset that Farnsworth may get Chavez’s IP? or is the fact that Ankiel may steal some games away from Melky?

  171. 298 — That is also my concern with Ankiel. Presumably he’ll platoon with Melky (though he’s slightly weaker from the right side).

    For someone who has access to BJOL, how is Ankiel on defense with plus/minus numbers?

  172. @298
    there’s no way in hell wren pressures cox to do anything. a new gm would be ballsy indeed to tell his future hall of fame manager how to manage his team.

  173. You also have a potential upside with Ankiel in that he’s capable of having a complete nervous breakdown and go Royal Tenenbaum in the outfield, walking back and forth with one shoe on and a glove over his face.

  174. @302
    he’s a below average centerfielder, but not any worse than anything we have currently.

    melky sucks and glaus was about 1/2 a second late on that pitch he struck out on. it might be time for freddie up and glaus dl’d.

  175. best part of the trade: in 2011, matt young might actually have a shot at making the club.

  176. I would cite as evidence the continued presence of Chavez (until now) and Kawakami on the major-league roster. Chavez earned a trip to Gwinnett months ago, and KK’s only current role is to be dusted each week.

    But we paid good money for KK and traded for Chavez, and they’ve stayed. I think those two things are connected.

  177. Blanco was the only person on the 40-man who could actually play center. An Ankiel/Melky platoon in center would be… problematic defensively.

  178. Evidently they kept Chavez up to fool Dayton Moore into thinking he was a major leaguer. Moore isn’t just over-valuing his former guys; he’s taken to over-valuing guys that Frank Wren has acquired in the past two years. I’m really excited Moore just got extended, I really am.

  179. Brian J. – Don’t see the argument you’re trying to make there. If Wren was pressuring Cox to give KK and Chavez playing time, it obviously wasn’t working.

  180. How can anyone hate this deal. I can understand being indifferent, but not upset with it. The only piece we gave up that had any shot in atlanta was Collins – and ev en that is a bit of a long shot. We got farnsworth who is A LOT better than Chavez and a potential power upgrade in center, though unlikely. You guys are smarter fans than this.

  181. Kyle Farnsworth
    ERA 2.42 WHIP 1.16 K 36 IP 44.2

    Matt Capps
    ERA 2.68 WHIP 1.30 K 39 IP 47

  182. 2 incredibly obvious statements concerning this trade:

    1. a bullpen with 6 legit arms is better than 5.
    2. ankiel>melky

    and infante is proving that he deserved that all-star selection.

  183. So if I get this right, the big issue is a paranoid conspiracy theory where Frank Wren dictates player usage to his HOF manager in order to justify trading away a worthless reliever, 4th OF/defensive replacement, and a midget with good K numbers in the minors.

    That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read in years.

  184. Jesus Christ. I go to f***in work on my f***in motorcycle and find out our GM not only hasn’t added a decent RH OF bat, but in fact has actually managed to add ANOTHER shitty LH bat, and run off the one guy you could was a CF without laughing out loud. F*** these guys. They just can’t stand success, obviously so there is some subconscious need to sabotage the goddam season.

  185. How can anyone hate this deal. I can understand being indifferent, but not upset with it.

    Folks were hoping for an actual upgrade so they are disappointed with this crap-for-crap deal. It’s really not hard to understand. Some teams actually improve at the deadline, not just shuffle the deck chairs.

    I was just hoping to avoid another disaster trade, this sort of fits, so I’m cool with it.

  186. Good trade. Depth for the bullpen as IMHO Saito has been showing his age and lets face it Wagner has looked mortal lately too. Ankiel is a throw in. But I do see him getting playing time as the Turtle simply isn’t a CF

  187. I don’t understand the initial hostility on here. We upgrade both the OF (power) and bullpen. Easy win for us.

  188. The Braves aren’t going to win anyway unless they get more production out of their infield corners. Let’s just hope Glaus and Chipper turn it around.

  189. Anyone expecting a really big deal hasn’t been watching frank wren over the last few years. I am a huge Wren supporter because I think he has done a tremendous job with limited resources, but there is one thing the guy won’t do – he will not deal our top prospects. Period.

  190. Something to remember is that Blanco barely played on the team this year, so losing him doesn’t mean much at all, in my eyes. It’s basically losing our light hitting AAA CFer.

  191. we havent discussed this but the outfielder that the braves traded for earlier today is a right handed outfielder who’s played a good bit of center. he looks awful this year but maybe the fo knows more than i do.

  192. 329 – he cant either. We are cutting payroll every year. Im sure itll be more next year when Chipper and Bobby are done. Until we get a real owner, our GM has to build from the farm

  193. Indifferent is the right word. Short term win, long term loss. That’s the price to pay for trying to hold the lead and make the playoffs.

    I was hoping for someone to replace or platoon with Glaus. He’s been awful lately and seems to be hurt.

  194. Good lord, doesn’t anyone understand the concept of opportunity cost? You can’t count on being in a position to make postseason every year. Sure, we may well hang on to make the playoffs, but every LH starter in the world is in a position to shut this team down. If it’s not going to help today or tomorrow for that matter, what’s the point? Even the radio guys were baffled by this.

  195. 320—At the risk of being compared to additional toiletries…how can a player prove anything about an All-Star selection with post-All-Star-break performance?

  196. 334- Then why did we add about $3.5 million in payroll to get replacements that are likely to be no better than the benchies we had?

  197. I think has more been available there would have been a bigger trade. This was a very modest market as far as available talent. And our needs were so specific for a very rare commodity. A CF that hits is a tough thing to come by. Plus although we want to win now this team has a bright future. Our organizational strength is minor league pitching. It will be more valuable to the Braves in the off season when there is more talent available to trade for.

  198. Kevin Millar only seems aware of the AL East and not the NL East…even though he played for the Marlins awhile.

  199. how many hitters got moved that wouldve helped us, really? The Braves couldnt move Heyward to CF’r. Who could we have added that was traded that would do better than Diaz vs LHP?

  200. I’ve had enough of Troy. Give him a rest and bring up Freeman, please.

    Wren is going to have to get rid of Lowe or KK, so hopefully he can get it done sooner rather than later. Dumping McClouth would be nice too.

  201. Chief @ 216,

    Finally something we can agree on. People around (not just here) are acting as if we gave up Delgado and Teheran.

    Farnsworth > Chavez
    Ankiel > Blanco

    People can cherrypick all they want, so here: Ankiel has a .784 OPS this year. Unless Collins becomes Wagner and Blanco becomes Willie Mays, we don’t regret this trade.

  202. 331—Yeah, my fingers remain crossed for something involving KK and Figgins. Unlikely, I know.

  203. Don’t hate the trade at all. But I’m thinking there is more that could be done to upgrade the team.

  204. I like Figgins too, but the Mariners won’t sell that low. You’re talking about a guy who just last year was one of the more valuable players in the AL. It’s not even a “contract from hell” if he turns it around, though at the level he’s played this year it most certainly is.

  205. That was close.

    I bet Bobby lets Jurrjens go as long as possible today with a short bullpen (and with Saito probably unavailable).

  206. I gotta say, spike has thrown a wrench into my attempt to come around on this trade. Adam M and spike are probably the two guys on here (other than Mac) whose opinions I tend to agree with and respect the most. I was initially bummed by the deal, but then Adam had me feeling better, but then spike starts highlighting my fears about the deal, only in hella melodramatic fashion. I don’t know what to think!

    Go Braves.

  207. Good thing Orlando Cabrera has no power – he squared up that pitch really well, I thought it was a HR from the swing.

  208. Medlen and Jair. Two days in a row.

    I like the trade just so Farnsworth can drill Arroyo hard.

  209. I was holding out hope for a McGriff type deal for the homestretch. For Bobby’s last year. To honor the memory of Chipper Jones, God Rest His Soul.

    We upgraded slightly and as long as Tim Collins doesn’t become a freak star I’m ok with it. If we were going to do a monster deal though this would have been the year.

    Lots of people watch porn now for free though. Our parent company doesn’t have that high end spank money it use to.

  210. if there was a monopoly baseball game, melky would have the “free pass to suck” card.

  211. Well now that we have Farnsworth….teams better thin twice about hitting Braves players. Wat is wrong with Fox’s screen? How many at-bats since Heyward’s last homerun?

  212. Don’t mind me. I dropped a bottle of caxaca (brazilian rum) on the way in from the brutal rainstorm we were having here. Let’s just say it didn’t improve my mood any.

  213. Jay Bruce did exactly what Jair wanted – he rolled over on an outside pitch – the Reds just got lucky b/c the ball was well-placed. This is why it would’ve been nice to score more than 2 runs against Arroyo, who is a thoroughly mediocre pitcher.

  214. Can we call Dayton back and force him to take Melky? God I hate his useless, fat face.

  215. Bobby, like the team itself, took a two-hour nap after the top of the first.

  216. Let’s keep an open mind. The Braves probably lose 4-2 anyway. Melky’s awful-ness is just icing.

    Also, can we second-guess letting Jurrjens face Hanigan there? He just looked like he was losing it that inning, and the Stubbs at bat may have been the mirage the Reds needed to keep him in the game.

  217. I blame Bethany. I have a feeling she is laying on a couch right now. She is the Melky of superstitious Braves supporters.

  218. Perhaps Bobby felt with the new Royals we acquired, we can close up shop and claim the division today. Sigh.

  219. And why can’t we score of a mediocre, cheesy douche with bad hair like Bronson Arroyo?

  220. The worst thing about you, Melky? You’ve made me agree with something Millar said. Eff you.

    Well, we’ve completely fallen apart. Where’s the White Flag when you need him?

  221. Now Ludwick has a weird reverse platoon split, and I could see why he wouldn’t be your first pick. But he is a for real hitter who is under contract for 1.5 years and the Pads got him for junk. What the hell?

  222. The old Bobby would have seent hat Andruw Jones-style smirking of Melky and pulled his ass out, immediately. Get his fat ass off the team. HATE HIM.

  223. Adam,

    I agree. JJ was losing it, should have brought Moylan in sooner.

    Can we get Ankiel here before the end of the game?

  224. Maybe the ‘Half Nats’ (that’s what I am calling them now) can beat the Phillies again tonight? SIGH.

  225. The laughter is more embarrassing than the play. I’d rather put up with a useless McLouth than a chuckling Melky.

  226. Agreed, Alex R. “Losing is a disease… as contagious as bubonic plague. Attacking one, but infecting all.”

  227. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Braves end up finishing 3rd when all is said and done.

  228. good to know, Melky and Hinske are out there laughing after that throw….Im sure Bobby and the rest of the team arent laughing

  229. But again, the real question is why our lineup hasn’t been able to score anything off freaking Bronson douchey Arroyo since inning 1. I’m so sick of our lineup.

    And good point about Ludwick. Much better than Ankiel. And the Padres got him for peanuts.

    It might lead ONE to believe that rather than burning up the phone lines, Wren kept his personal secretary, Dayton Moore, on the phone until he came up with a deal with just the Royals.

  230. I’m blacked-out by the BOS/DET game … I cannot wait to watch the highlights (lowlights) later to see this Melky screw-up. The suspense of just how awful this play was is killing me.

  231. Can the team start wearing chipper’s number in black on their arms? Maybe it would inspire everyone.

  232. That was the worst play I’ve ever seen, and then that asshole laughs about it.

  233. Tony, I second Mac…JJ did tire out but some bad defense cost him. I still trust JJ as the 2nd best starter after Hudson.

  234. @424

    Well, it was a ball in the gap left-center and Melkdud went to throw it in. Instead of to second base it went to right field.

  235. Fox just showed the Braves’ May comeback against the Reds (ending with the Conrad GS). Even that can’t cheer me up.

  236. May was the last time Glaus was useful. Oh how I dreamed of us making a deal for Adam Dunn, just wasting away with that awesome power in DC. :(

  237. I’ve never seen a play that bad in tee-ball, and then he yucks it up out there. Disgusting. And I’m not giving Hinske a pass either, screw you buddy.

  238. How much longer is Bobby going to keep Glaus in the middle of the lineup. “Hitless in this series” as they just said on Fox Sports.

    And Kevin Millar is a gigantic douche. Listening to him is close to as bad as listening to Chip. Good lord.

  239. Nope. It’s dunn-dunn-Dunn! He’s the only guy we didn’t use yesterday, except for KK the Invisible Rabbit.

  240. why isnt Bobby letting KK face the RH’rs? Apparently KK is so bored he’s just out there playing catch by himself.

    seriously, do the Braves DL Glaus?

  241. Jdpeace, I’ve given up for today. Bad managing, bad defense, terrible at bats. We are down 3 and Chipper effing pops up on a 3-1 pitch.

  242. The team is so mad at Melky he’s got to find his own way back to the hotel after the game.

  243. If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, you’re Jason Heyward.

  244. Hidden benefit to the deal, Chavez still has a cheap arbitration year left. Now there’s pretty much no shot he pitches for us next year; before…

  245. @460 So we are making the players on the field responsible for their performance now?!?! When we have access to a magical treadmill?

    I nominate Bethany for BJWB. Bad attitude. No hustle.

  246. Dunn will be out of baseball soon…..a reliever who cannot throw strikes is useless.

  247. nah, he’s solid against lefties and plenty of teams will give a lefty throwing 97 a chance

  248. Yes, lefties that touch the mid ’90’s usually wash out of baseball pretty quickly.

  249. we have aag, melky, and a pinch hitter up in the 9th. for time’s sake, can we just call it 2 outs and let brooks conrad hit?

  250. Ankiel since returning

    11 for 30 .367/.406/.567/.973

    put Hinske at 1B and Diaz in LF for about a week. Glaus needs rest

  251. AAG also deserves to be yelled at for the GIDP in the first with the bases loaded.

    I hate this team.

  252. AAG got out of the hospital two days ago and shouldnt be playing right now. He’s only out there cause Martin is hurt

  253. “IF” McLouth can get it together, you could do

    Hinske 1B
    Heyward RF
    McLouth CF
    Ankiel LF

    That’s liveable, I guess, if Nate can get it going. If not, Melky is now your everyday CF, or you move Heyward over, and take your chances with Glaus at 1st. Neither is a particularly good contingency plan.

    Glaus 1B
    Diaz LF
    Heyward RF
    Melky CF

    That’s….not so good.

    I am still completely mystified by this. Even if you decide to run Heyward out at CF, sending Ankiel or Hinske out against LHP is suicidal, so you’re stuck with Melky in any event.

  254. I know, csg, but if that’s the case then just take pitches and pray for a walk.

  255. i’m going to start taking personal offense if anyone else tries to convince me melky cabrera is useful.

  256. ankiel career OPS vs LHP – .681
    melky career OPS vs LHP – .686

    there is never an excuse to have Melky playing

  257. @476 He expels carbon dioxide which plants then absorb and convert into nutrients.

  258. “All those going back to Atlanta tomorrow, have your bags outside your hotel room doors in the morning. Not so fast, Melky.”

  259. This is a bad stretch, and it basically started with the trade for Gonzalez. If the Braves fall apart this year I’m gonna blame that, though of course their obvious deficiencies and the Phillies’ regression will probably be the real story.

  260. Maybe, he’s posted a 935 OPS over the past two months and is absolutely killing the ball right now. It’s hard to imagine him being worse than Glaus.

    But also remember that Glaus has always been streaky. I bet September is another May-like month for him. Don’t rule that out.

  261. So who called for another low fastball to Rolen to start everything rolling downhill?

    Jair was lucky he didn’t hit that one out, too.

    Chipper needs to move down in the order, but he’ll trip over Glaus moving there, as well.

    If Melky ever plays another minute in CF, Bobby should be fired.

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