Welcome to Cincinnati game thread: July 30, Braves at Reds

Cincinnati, a southern city accidentally placed on the northern banks of the Ohio River, is named after the Society of the Cincinnati, an organization of the early years of the Republic. The society, in turn, was named after the Roman general Cincinnatus, who was given dictatorial powers during a war and who as soon as the crisis was over gave up those powers and retired to his farm. He probably never existed. The people of Cincinnati all aspire to give up the city life and move to farms, but they have allergies. The primary claims to fame for Cincinnati are the TV show WKRP in Cincinnati and not being Cleveland.

Although Cincinnati is a major airline hub, the airport is actually located in Kentucky. This is common in Cincinnati, where the civic center is located in Pennsylvania, city hall is located in Indiana, and the basketball team is located in Sacramento. Cincinnati’s principal sports teams are the football Bengals and the baseball Reds. The Bengals were once known for losing Super Bowls to the San Francisco 49ers, then for being comically inept, but in recent years have turned their attention to crime. The Reds sometimes claim to be the oldest team in the majors, but they’re not, it’s the Braves, and there’s nothing they can do about it. The Reds did steal the Braves’ original nickname of Red Stockings, but shortened it because they couldn’t remember anything that long. During the 1950s the Reds changed their nickname to “Redlegs” because they didn’t want people to think that they were Communists. They were in fact Communists, and the Cincinnati ballclub was a center of American Communism until Pete Rose was suspended permanently from baseball for being a member of the Politburo.

The most notable thing about Cincinnati cuisine is that they put chili on top of spaghetti. This came after several experiments, including putting marmalade on top of steak, putting tartar sauce on top of macaroni and cheese, and putting lemonade on top of chicken and dumplings.

339 thoughts on “Welcome to Cincinnati game thread: July 30, Braves at Reds”

  1. As an alumnus of Miami U (the one in Ohio, just north of Cincy), I concur on everything Cincinnati-sucking related. Except for Skyline Chili…which is awesome…and how dare you.

    By the way I got a tauning email from a Reds fan today that asked if I was “afraid of Volquez”. You know the Reds are going good when their fans are fervently supporting their pitchers who sport an 8+ ERA

  2. From previous thread:

    Who is advocating trading one top-25-in-the-game pitching prospects, let alone two? If Minor has become one of the top-25-in-the-game pitching prospects, then I wasn’t aware of it.

  3. Lately the principal football team has been the Bearcats.

    Excellent putative humor. Mark not to disagree with you but IMHO Skyline is best on a Coney.

  4. I’ve accidentally gotten tartar sauce on macaroni and cheese before. To be honest I can’t say its a bad taste.

  5. I’ve said it before, but unless we can somehow dump Lowe’s salary in the offseason, there isn’t a spot for Mike Minor in the rotation. That, coupled with his overperforming, means that not only does it make sense to trade him, but that keeping him would make no sense, really, unless we trade Medlen.

  6. 2—He, along with Teheran, Delgado, and Vizcaino (and Freeman), was on Baseball America’s mid-season top 50 prospects list. Assuming that roughly half of those are pitchers, that’s 25. I think most evaluators would agree that all of those guys belong in that group. All of them are pretty dang valuable right now.

    6—How do you know that he’s overperforming? And, anyway, my point isn’t that he shouldn’t be traded, only that if he’s traded, it should be for something more valuable than half of a two-month rental.

  7. @5

    Lowe is a sunk cost at this point, so even if we can’t dump him on the Met…err..anybody we shouldn’t let 15 million keep him in the rotation if Minor is better. In fact, Minor or some other minimum salary player is the perfect replacement for Lowe, as we’re spending 15.4 million for a starting slot that might be above average versus 15 million for a below average slot.

  8. “…but in recent years have turned their attention to crime.”

    My favorite line.

  9. But Wagner is retiring after this season, and Lowe used to be a closer…

    I literally see nothing that could go wrong with this plan.

    Sort of tangentially related: has everyone already seen the Hastily Made Cleveland Tourism videos? (two links)

    Second one always gets me.

  10. Actually Rose was Stalin’s illegitemate son. He may have been legitimate but Stalin’s wives had a habit of killing themselves, so who knows. Or maybe Stalin threatened to exile them to Cincinnati. Anyway, Rose would have succeeded Stalin in the USSR but he discovered there were no bookies there so he left. Marge Schott owned the team, but was dismayed to discover that red was the color of communism; she was really hoping to change the team’s colors to black in honor of Hitler, who was really misunderstood.

  11. You’re right, I don’t know that he’s overperforming. To be honest, my opinion stands even if you take out the overperforming thing. The fact that he might be is just a nice little benefit to convince ourselves that trading him is the right thing to do, I guess, but I would think we should trade him regardless.

    And you may be right, Seat Painter, but I’m pretty sure the Braves aren’t gonna see it that way, and regardless of whether or not he should replace Lowe, if we’re not gonna use Minor next year, we should trade him.

  12. I like Cincinatti. Skyline Chilli is great.I went to a Reds game one year and stayed in Covington. There was an Octoberfest going on that rocked.

    Their ballpark is one of the most underrated stadiums. Great layout. easy to get around in. I liked it much better than the new Busch in St Louis.

  13. Couldn’t we trade Lowe to Japan? Furman Bisher thinks they haven’t suffered enough for Pearl Harbor.

  14. Well I don’t think anybody has said anything about trading Teheran or Delgado, and I certainly don’t think anybody has said anything about trading more than one of those guys in the same deal.

    I honestly didn’t realize that Minor was ranked that highly though (just checked the list – 26 pitching prospects), so I guess I can see the hesitancy in moving him now.

    Edit: Nats just traded Guzman. Dunno if that’s relevant to any body we might be hoping to get from them.

  15. 14—Smitty said, in the last thread:

    If we can get Dunn, we would be stupid not to. I’ll go get Minor and Delgatto and take them to the airport.

    That’s what got me started.

  16. Never stepped foot in Cincinnati, but I have visited that state’s other 2 big towns—the genuinely dire Cleveland & the better-than-you’d-think Columbus.

    Still, I’m reminded of my publisher’s metro-centric view of America: “There’s New York and there’s LA—everything in between is Ohio.”

    Let’s back to winning.

  17. 15 Oh you were arguing with Smitty?

    No on Dunn. Yes on Willingham. Teheran is untouchable. Delgado, Minor, Vizcaino, Freeman should not be untouchable.

    However, if Wren decides he can’t part with any of the above then I still like our chances.

  18. Still, I’m reminded of my publisher’s metro-centric view of America: “There’s New York and there’s LA—everything in between in Ohio.”

    I was once in PA on business and had a resident tell me (describing the state): “There’s Pittsburgh on one end, Philadelphia on the other and Kentucky in the middle.”

  19. Id probably move Freeman into the untouchable list. We’ve had what 12 1B in the past 5 years? well maybe not that many

  20. not by too much

    Glaus, Laroche, Kotchman, Prado, Tex, Thorman, Wilson, Franco…who else

  21. Would Boston really move Ellsbury or is DOB just talking out of his butt?

    He also brought up Berkman and Jose Guillen. I’m not getting my hopes up of any big deals for a bat between now and tomorrow afternoon. Oy.

  22. Oh, lots more than that. We’ve had eight “regular” first basemen (from Baseball-Reference, meaning the most games played at the position in a season) in the ten years since Galarraga left: Smelms, Julio Franco, Fick, LaRoche (three years), Thorman, Teixeira, Kotchman, and Glaus. That doesn’t include Matt Franco, Brogna, Caminiti, Craig Wilson, Saltalamacchia, or Surhoff, who all held the position semi-regularly at one point, or the several other players who played there at least some.

  23. Although Cincinnati is a major airline hub, the airport is actually located in Kentucky.

    Is this right? I’ve been through the airport many times so I assumed that I have been to Cincinnati. Now I’m not so sure. So confusing. Anyway, WKRP was awesome.

  24. Fick is a name I would like to forget, I still can’t believe that stunt he pulled trying to break somebody’s arm (can’t remember who).

  25. Our old friend Jayson Stark is reporting that the Braves are making a late push to convince the Fish to deal Ross.

  26. some crap from dob:
    “The most recent name connected to the Braves is an interesting one: Boston center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Red Sox have made it known he’s available, and if the Braves can swing that without giving up much, I’d do it. He’s certainly not a power guy at all, but he’s got huge speed (led the AL with 120 steals the past two seasons) and would be the first big-time base-stealer the Braves have had since a young Rafael Furcal.

    Ellsbury would be an upgrade in CF, for sure, provided he’s healthy (he’s been on the DL and was to be examined today). I’m not sure yet how serious those talks have been.

    A new name emerged as more-serious candidate Thursday when the Astros for the first time said they’d listen to offers for veteran switch-hitter Lance Berkman.”

  27. Everything I hear says that the Red Sox have soured on Ellsbury. With most organizations, I would think that was simply bitching about a player who’s good but not as good as they thought he’d be; with the Red Sox, I’m not so sure.

  28. cristian guzman traded to the rangers for two pitching prospects.

    i just realized i was repeating info. sorry.

  29. According to Jayson Stark, the Braves are making a big move for Cody Ross; the Marlins are playing hard to get. Dunn is apparently going to the AL.

  30. Nats are really stocking up this year. I’d prefer a Willingham + Diaz/Blanco experiment in CF to a Ross + Hinske/Diaz experiment in LF.

    Berkman? Really?

    Do we have a shot at Crawford in the offseason, and could he play CF? If so, I’d pass on Ellsbury. Crawford will steal plenty of bases while being an overall better hitter. But Ellsbury is still tempting though.. I guess that would mean we’re pretty much giving up on Schafer?

  31. The Sox pretty clearly mishandled Ellsbury’s rib injury, pushing him out to play before he was healed. But he doesn’t have a great defensive reputation, he hasn’t been healthy all year, and his walk rate is only okay. He’s better than Scott Podsednik… but is he much better than Podsednik?

  32. From Rosenthal’s Twitter:

    Source: #Braves still on Ross, two other teams “coming hard.” #Marlins’ willingness to move him still in question. Would need big offer #MLB

    Big offer? For Cody Ross?

  33. @40, I think Ellsbury has a much better resume for a hitter than Pods. Whether or not you think his potential is forever gone now, is one thing, but I think when healthy, you get a damn good defender who hits like a CF with some speed at a minimum, and the upside is Crawfordesqe. It would be a great buy-low move, and since we are resigned to pedestrian hitting in CF, we might as well have a flycatcher out there. I like it, depending on price of course.

    /edit – the defensive numbers are sort of all over the place – fangraphs loves him in LF and RF, not so much in CF. To me this is more a function of where he played when he was most healthy, rather than a positional indicator. YMMV, but to me he looks good out there.

  34. Frankly, it looks bleak. I’m not sure anything Wren could do at this point would make much difference. The big difference makers for the Braves would have been Dunn or Willingham. Anything else is just marginal improvement, if that. At least if they got Ross, he wouldn’t be hitting against the Braves.

    Liberty is probably pretty happy with the way the season has gone. The team is in contention, attendence is steady or slightly better, and the payroll is manageable. They probably figure they wouldn’t get a big bump in attendence from spending more and as long as the team is reasonably good, I suspect they see no reason to change course. Sad. While I was defending Liberty earlier, I have to acknowledge that it’s hard to square your passion for the team with an ownership that really doesn’t care about winning.

  35. Id take Ellsbury in a heartbeat. This team is desperately lacking speed. Add Ellsbury now and Crawford to LF in the offseason.

    This is what I dont like about DOB. I highly doubt that Ellsbury would get traded to Atl and I can only imagine the type of comments he gets stirred up over there.

  36. LOL, the Marlins have apparently taken Ross “off the table” — at least there’s one team who overvalues him by even more than the Braves do!

  37. To me, Ross is clearly the guy to get, and I’m ready to overpay for him.

    Career SLG vs. LHP — .590

    And he’s a CF. How is this not exactly what we need?

  38. Of course, like every player ever in the history of the game as far as the Braves are concerned it appears, Ellsbury bats lefty. Are lefty bats the new righty bats or something?

  39. If you want Diaz in CF, just put Diaz in CF. Don’t trade for him under an assumed name.

    Unless you can/could get him cheaply, of course.

  40. Or unless, you know, you wanted more than one guy in the lineup who can crush lefties.

  41. I guess I’m dumb and just don’t understand baseball.

    Cody Ross – Hell yeah overpay git’r done.

    Adam Dunn – WORTHLESS.

  42. No one is saying Dunn is worthless. He just can’t play the OF.

    We need a hitter… come on, Wren!

  43. berkman’s not in houston’s lineup tonight and the latest tweet has the astros “close to a deal with the yankees”.


  44. In the MLBTR comments about the Berkman to Yankees rumor:

    “I imagine they will get both. Dunn is an ideal bat off the bench.”

    … Is this guy joking, or do Yankees fans REALLY have a sense of entitlement this big?

  45. Oh, I’ve had cases of gastritis that were unfortunately viral. I wish they were bacterial, then antibiotics would kill it.

  46. Cody Ross isn’t putting the ball in the air as much this year, which is why his ISO is down. He’d be having a very bad season if not for the .332 BABIP.

  47. Well, the most common reason for gastritis is heavy use of NSAIDs, including aspirin and ibuprofen. I expect that a lot of players swallow Advil like it’s candy.

  48. I don’t know why everybody is thinking we need Dunn. Hell yeah he is a good hitter, and I’d take him if we were struggling against righties. But come on, we really need someone who can mash some lefties. We definately could do worse, but if we can only fill one hole, fill the biggest one.

  49. It depends if you think that the Braves’ biggest hole is a lack of righthanded hitting, or an overall lack of home run power. The Braves are 11th in the league in homers, and the team’s top HR man (Glaus, a righthanded hitter) is tied for 31st in the league, with McCann and Prado tied for 42nd.

  50. Some homers would be nice, but I could live with doubles. I just want to believe that we could have ONE player who could slug .500 this year, or a center fielder who could slug .450. (Right now, we have two players who are slugging exactly .500, and they’re tied for the team lead in SLG: bench players Brooks Conrad and Eric Hinske.)

    The regular with the highest slugging percentage is Martin Prado, the leadoff hitter. After leadoff, the highest slugging percentages are Brian McCann and Matt Diaz, both .456. We need someone, anyone, who can hit more than a single.

  51. c, 2B, LF, RF….only positions pulling their weight offensively….Glaus before he got hurt

  52. It’s not like Dunn is a platoon candidate. He has a career .495 SLG/.820 OPS against LHP to go along with his .546 SLG/.941 OPS against RHP, which significantly outclasses anything Ross can do against RHP, while posting a higher OBP against both RHP and LHP.

  53. Id like to get Dunn, but I don’t think we will. I could also seeing us wait until the waiver deadline to make a move.

    We will do something by 4:00. So says my barber.

  54. Yes, Dunn significantly outclasses Cody Ross offensively.

    Now try to imagine Adam Dunn playing CF.

  55. It’d be the same thing, in terms of value, as him playing LF. But it’d be 20x as hilarious. I’d pay $5 to see it. $10 if Hanson were pitching.

  56. #79
    This group reminds me a little bit of the (pre-Reggie) 1976 Yankees, but with no 30-HR guy & a little less speed.

    That team had some power, but they always seemed to single you to death.

    Fingers crossed for another HR guy.

  57. I can damn sure imagine Dunn staggering around in left field while blanco (Blanco!) patrols center w/ Hinske spotting at OF and 1B and Diaz all over the OF.

    You put Dunn in at 4, move Mac to 5 and that lineup is, dare I say it, pretty good?

    Say, against righties:
    zombie chip
    poor man’s escobar

  58. Roy Oswalt slept with Charlie Manuel. Charlie doesn’t hold onto the diminutive form of Charles for just any ole reason.

  59. berkman off the table and cody back on it. cody’s got to be confused while berkman now is a douchebag yank.

  60. @84

    Or Blanco, though I’m glad to see you’ve stopped being so obstinate for obstinacy’s sake. =)

    Edit: NVM. The Savior™, Cody Ross, is available again. Soon our dynasty will begin.

  61. LOL @ Gastritis…

    I once told my boss I had gastritis to get out of work for a few days.

    Not exactly sure why I picked gastritis. I guess it just sounded good when I was trying to find an illness to fake off of WebMD.

  62. did we really sell mitch jones to pittsburgh? his 1.072 ops against lhp could have been useful if he were given a chance. he had 7 homeruns in 80 at-bats against lhp.

  63. @95
    1.072 ops against lhp. i dont care what his obp is, if he’s crushing lefties to that tune, he’s useful.

  64. Chipper would be a great 6 hole hitter.

    Come to think of it, our whole club is made up of 6 hole hitters.

  65. This is apropos of nothing, but I was just looking at Freeman’s stats, and he’s hitting well in AAA. What’s to be expected from a guy who hits that well at that level at his age?

  66. i think the Hinske/ Diaz platoon makes for an above average left fielder. Yall can look up stats and proove me wrong.

  67. I just can’t wrap my head around the Yankees deal – they give up nothing, AND get salary relief from Houston. If there was a real arm’s length Commissioner, this would get Finlayed.

  68. Im trying to figure out all of these deals. Good players are moving and no top prospects have been given up. But apparently everyone we look at the price is extremely high

    however, I dont think Berkman shoud have much value either. His contract is bad, he’s not staying healthy, and is falling off.

  69. At least the Oswalt deal had a fig leaf of nominal prospects. They aren’t even bothering to discuss what the Yanks are giving. But yes, it’s definitely a bs sale of a player as well.

  70. Med’s change is nasty, he’ll be even better when he can command his breaking pitch just a little better

  71. Ithink they might ought to shelf the change up for a few more starts until Medlen gets a better feel for it.

  72. @116, over the last 28 days he’s .262/.435/.585/1.020, and the Yankees are only on the hook for his 2M buyout next year. Just sayin’.

  73. I feel bad for the Astros fans. Ed Wade is completely incompetent. He doesn’t seem to understand that you are supposed to get good prospects back for marquee players.

  74. I mean, Ed Wade has been a terrible GM for a long time. But seriously… he’s giving away players and money. I’d love it if Frank Wren would just spend a couple hours every day trying to fleece a couple of the worst GMs in baseball.

  75. We should call Louth back up for the series in Houston. That way he’ll still feel like he’s in AAA.

  76. Just dumb….so worried about the runner on 1st with an 0-2 count and two outs. The Braves need to start drafting college players….

  77. Just dumb….so worried about the runner on 1st with an 0-2 count and two outs. The Braves need to start drafting college players….

    Yeah, Medlen really hasn’t panned out…

  78. Bad defense really hurts. A decent CF might make that play, though it’s hard to tell.

  79. God I hate melky and his stupid face. I don’t ever want to see Heyward in CF, but there is no way he could be any worse than that pudgy piece of crap.

  80. @142 Never said Medlen hasn’t panned out, but that episode was dumb. It wouldn’t hurt to draft a couple of college players. It didn’t hurt Tim Hudson.

  81. trivia question on fox ohio was about the Len Barker trade. Brooke Jacoby is a Reds coach. for an old guy that trade is the worst trade in Braves history.

  82. So the Astros are paying 4 million of the 7.5 Berkman will be owed, and didn’t get any prospects even worth mentioning. Usually people that get violated like that go to the police station afterward.

  83. I guess both Oswalt and Berkman are providing a very limited number of teams for Wade to negotiate with.

  84. Medlen batted righty to keep his hand out of the way…and got hit on the right hand anyway.

  85. #180, plus it’s only the non-waiver deadline. I’m pretty sure Manny will pass through waivers.

  86. I would be very surprise if we do nothing. I expect Wren to overpay to get the bat we need.

  87. Ross is better than anybody we’ve got, but that’s not saying much. If Wren overpays for a CF, i’d rather it be a guy like Chris Young or even make a run at Upton

  88. Based loaded no one out with Prado, Heyward, Jones and McCann and the Braves score one run?….Sigh

  89. @187 I am actually not hoping for anything. It wouldn’t be a bad thing for the future if we stand pat, but it’s bad for this year.

  90. Skyline Chili is awesome! The secret ingredient is cinnamon.

    oh, and Cincinnati has a thing for flying pigs. It’s like their unofficial mascot. seriously.

  91. @ 196 wow, I wonder where the pig thing originated from?

    @197 it’s the least I could do for the good of the team, haha.

  92. “Due to the pig industry in the city’s history, the flying pig has a large presence in the City of Cincinnati, including things like the Big Pig Gig and the Flying Pig Marathon”


  93. The future is NOW. You SABR guys that want to horde those (sus)prospects for a rainy day make me laugh.

  94. 202 — Remember the Teixiera trade? That worked out well.

    I’m not saying I’m against a trade, but I’d rather not have Wren overpay for a marginal upgrade (i.e. one of our star prospects for Commando Cody).

  95. Yeah Cody Ross sucks. But if one or two of those guys would get Adam Dunn do it NOW.

  96. @209 Actually I do. Probably 60% of these ‘prospects’ will never pan out. We KNOW what Adam Dunn or Prince Fielder WILL do. Not can, not might, WILL.

  97. @212, I was referring to your reductionist argument that “SABR types want to horde(sic) prospects.”

  98. The future is NOW. You SABR guys that want to horde those (sus)prospects for a rainy day make me laugh.

    Wow dude, troll harder. So mature.

  99. Figures….the Braves have blown way to many scoring chances tonight to win this game

  100. The bullpen has picked a freaking fabulous time to suck. Why is it that all facets of this team fall apart at once?

  101. I love when Chief shows up!

    The color RED is an illusion! No one but the GERMANS wears underpants! APPLE SAUCE SHAMPOO, SUCKERS!!!


  102. Good to see Venters recover there. After the first two batters it looked like it would be a lonnnnng inning. Also, is it just me or does Melky look about 10 steps slower than when the season started? I think Hinske could have prevented that double in center.

  103. We play awful in Miami, DC, San Francisco, San Diego, Cincy, etc……I guess we don’t do too well on the road.

  104. Any know the tail of the tape on that Votto HR? Looked like a flyball at Turner Field.

  105. Guys, outfield defense doesn’t matter. Heyward to center, Dunn to left, remember?

  106. i saw chavez, and i logged right off, and came right onto braves journal, i figured, everyone was as fired up as me

  107. Brilliant, Bobby. Leave Wagner on the bench and let Chavez lose it. How many times this season has that strategy screwed us?

  108. How many games is this team going to lose this year with Jesse Chavez on the mound? I’m tired of this movie. I can’t understand what the hell Cox and Wren are thinking.

  109. Maybe it’s ok to wish ill on Cox considering the years he’s taken off my life with his moronic moves.

  110. Melky was able to waddle over and cut that one off. Chavez looks as expected. Our only hope is a line drive double play. They are hitting everything on the nose.

  111. so the Yanks acquire Berkman and Kearns….thats nice. They may have the deepest team in the history of baseball

  112. i am gettin my torch and pitchfork ready in case this guy gets on and we DON’T bring in a lefty to face Votto.

  113. Wow – 2 gift strike calls in a row – and a strikeout! If he trots Chavez out there next inning we deserve to lose.


  115. I don’t understand. Is it the Thunderdome? Should I start foraging and eating people?


  117. All of Chavez’s fastballs are straight, that’s why he can’t get hitters out consistently.

    Strike calls looked OK to me, but I was only paying half-attention.

  118. I don’t know how to make fire! I’ve got some chicken noodle and two cans of peaches! I’m not ready!

  119. @278, I’ll wait until after the deadline, but watching these latter day Frazees give away players to line their pockets…some days I am almost tempted to rethink my position on the salary cap.

  120. If it were broke I think he would have gone straight to the club house…I’m hoping, at least.

  121. @308 It is a magical and wondrous thing and I believe in and respect its power over us.

  122. I sure hope it’s a wrist sprain, but it very much looked like he may have broken something.

    Ok c’mon Billy…

  123. 318 — Seems like it would have been a good idea, but I guess you don’t want to risk making the 3rd out like that.

  124. If Prado is out we really need to add a bat. I would guess Infante would be the regular 2nd baseman, so Wren needs to get another outfield bat for sure now. Maybe a partly gimpy Prado can be semi good news if it puts a fire under Wrens butt

  125. If Prado is out, Infante can slide right in……hopefully he is not out too long. MEDLEN is the bigger worry.

  126. @334 Who can blame them? When the world is your oyster, why not reach for some cocktail sauce?

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