500 thoughts on “Sorry, no Deerfeet game thread: July 21, Padres at Braves”

  1. I am really struggling with this…Kevin Millar or Eric Byrnes on MLB Tonight? The show itself far exceeds Baseball Tonight, and I like HR, Mitch Williams, Pleasac is okay, Sean Casey is cool, the hosts are ok, but I guess I am indifferent when it comes to Millar and Byrnes. Any thoughts?

  2. Did anyone notice Paul’s reference to the Band in that “Hey Jude” video? Around 5:26, he sings, “Take a load off, and put it back on me.”

    @Last thread’s 146, I’m glad there are huge Deerhoof fans in the world, but it’s the way the argument is structured that gets me. Given a hundred years, the Beatles probably never would’ve made Endtroducing, Kala, Unknown Pleasures or Loveless either, but I can’t see how that diminishes what the Beatles did one bit. I fail to see how other artists were *so* sonically innovative or were *such* masters at songcraft as to render the Beatles obsolete. Elliott Smith was a bonafide genius at composition. But what did he add to the pop song formula that makes him leaps and bounds better than John or Paul? Where exactly is this value-added, so to speak? Fingerpicking?! Wow, I’d better go throw out my copy of Rubber Soul.

    @Last thread’s 144, Jed Lowrie watch: He is expected to be activated and join the Sox very soon, purportedly to spell Scutaro and fill in at 2B until Pedroia’s return. The Sox seem more excited about Jose Iglesias down in AA. Get it done, Wren.

  3. Well, let’s win this one to claim the series, then let Thursday take care of itself.

  4. @4: I’m not saying- in whatever hamfisted way I’m saying it- that the Beatles are obsolete; merely that debating them in current terms as if their ditties are relevant anymore confuses the hell out of me. It’s not just that the Beatles wouldn’t come up with The Runners Four, it’s that The Runners Four is better than anything they ever put their names to.

    Which is fine. Vanderbilt football today would issue sturdy beatdowns of, say, those legendary undefeated Oklahoma teams from half a century ago. Doesn’t diminish the old accomplishment anymore than to say that we’ve moved on and gotten better.

    As for what Elliott Smith brought to the table, it’s this: He did it better, while about a thousand times more screwed up (so, you know, bonus points).

    And if you’re wondering, I’ve already composed a note to give to my future children instructing them to turn me into glue if I ever ramble on about Funeral, Sung Tongs, Sound of Silver, Drum’s Not Dead, and whatever else.

  5. Since when did music have to be serious and innovative to be worth anything?

    Besides, B. B. King is better than anybody mentioned over the past two days.

  6. @3

    Millar and Byrnes are pretty awful on MLB Network. They’re trying to be the “wacky guy” that John Kruk portrays on Baseball Tonight, another guy I can’t stand to watch.

    As for the MLB panelists, I think they’re mostly pretty good, especially Williams, Plesac, Magrane, Reynolds and Larkin.

  7. @12, Willingham has never played CF in the big leagues (but has logged 15 games at catcher. Weird).

  8. Nothing weird about it. The Marlins tried to convert him to catcher (from third base) in the minors. It didn’t take, but he played more minor league games behind the plate than anywhere else.

  9. This has nothing to do with anything, but I was going back over the Braves lineups during the 90s. Man, those teams in 1997 and 1998 were really good–not to mention the pitching, of course. Yet, they ran into hot pitchers in the playoffs and went nowhere. By contrast, the 1995 team was pretty pedestrian–three great starters, a couple of good position players, but lots of holes (at least in terms of OPS+)–but won it all.

  10. Spike, re: your point about Kemp’s defense on the last thread, I totally agree that one should never use half-season defensive stats — and definitely never ever use half-season UZR — to make or break a point about a player’s defense. But pretty much EVERYONE’s been saying that Kemp has been terrible defensively this year, and UZR agrees. It’s another data point.

  11. Is Willingham much of an upgrade over a healthy Diaz? He hits RH better than Diaz, but Diaz has him beat against LH and on defense.

    Its funny, Bobby takes Diaz out of LF for defensive purposes late in games.

    Diaz 2.4 UZR
    Melky -4.6 UZR

    edit: after seeing the last post, I better use career numbers :)

    Diaz 7.8 UZR
    Melky -0.4 UZR

  12. @13 I agree. I knew I would like Reynolds because he was good on BBTN, but Mitch Williams and Dan Pleasac(the closers) are becoming two of my favorites. Magrane is pretty solid too.

    @16 Please don’t remind me of 1997 and 1998. What year did Veres lead off? 1997 is the year of the Eric Gregg 40inch strike zone. I still think he should have been fired after that game.

  13. now reports are that the Phils are trying to trade Werth in order to get Dominic Brown seasoning for next year and that acquiring Oswalt is for the same plan, 2011….

  14. @21: The Q Man led off 2000 until he got hurt. Was having his best year ever. Came back in 2001, didn’t have much in the tank, and that was it.

  15. @24 You are right. He was with Padres in 1998. I just remember being so excited when the Braves acquired him.

  16. interesting tidbits from DOB…

    #Braves’ Troy Glaus has hit .176 with no homers and 4 RBIs in his past 20 games, and .172 w/ 1 homer and .264 slugging in his past 26 games. 2 hours ago

    #Braves LF Matt Diaz is 7-for-12 with 3 HRs and 8 RBIs in past 3 games, and 16-for-37 w/ 4 HRs and 11 RBIs in 10 starts since back from DL. 2 hours ago

    Tonight’s #Braves starter, Tommy Hanson, has been erratic lately. But against Padres, he’s 2-0 with a 2.25 ERA in 2 starts, one this season. 3 hours ago

  17. Anyone up for a waiver wire move for Manny Ramirez in August if he’s healthy and the Dodgers realise they aren’t making the playoffs?

  18. If you knew for a fact that you could resign him next year (say Chipper confirms his retirement, at least privately to you), what would you guys give up for Crawford? Is it even worth it at this point, or should you just hope for the best this year with what you have and go after him in the off-season?

  19. Manny Ramirez makes a bazillion dollars. We’d have to trade Javier Vazquez for Melky Cabrera twice before we could afford him.

    Okay, that’s not exactly true, because his salary’d be prorated, and the season’s more than half over. But he makes $20 mill this year, and we’d have to figure out how to clear that. The Dodgers might be willing to trade him for salary relief because the divorce has made them poor, but for that reason they wouldn’t be able to kick much money our way.

    He’d sure be a nice bat for our stretch run, but he would cost a lot.

  20. re: Manny — Money aside, let’s try to get Bobby through his last season without giving him a heart attack…

  21. Manny would vastly improve Atlanta’s chances of winning the WS. It’d be worth 7m or so to me, since you’d get almost all of it back in sales and tv money if you made it. Long way from there though.

  22. The following teams are dead, according to the BP Pecota playoff odds (less than one percent chance of making the postseason):

    Blue Jays

    So who do they have that we would want?

  23. Why, Andrew McCutchen, of course! j/k

    One name I never hear much in these discussions is Jim Edmonds. He’s having a pretty good offensive year, not due to Miller Park, either. He’s at the tail end of his career, so he wouldn’t cost much. And he’d surely accept a part-time role, if that’s what we had available.


  24. Considering that Edmonds was just sitting around there for free all last year when the outfield was even worse, I think we’re unlikely to be interested.

  25. So the Troy Glaus numbers above per DOB are striking.

    Is he still hurt?

    Is he a streaky player like KJ?

    Will he come back and get hot?

    We have a borderline need for a bat as-is…if Glaus falls off a cliff (or stays down in the valley much longer), that need becomes a much bigger priority. No?

  26. Maybe not, but we probably didn’t see .280/.345/.468 coming. I’d sure as hell give him Melky’s roster spot right now.

  27. Among CF-capable players on those teams, there’s only McCutchen and DeJesus who I’d want.

  28. @39

    Says a lot about the 2010 M’s that Langerhans has 9 hits in 29 games played, but is third on the team in OPS.

  29. Gutierrez signed a 4-year team-friendly contract before this season. I think they’re committed to him. And Ichiro is too important to the turnstiles in Seattle — he’s still a demigod there. Area 51 (the rightfield stands) would riot if he ever left.

  30. Of course it doesn’t work as well next year when you replace Glaus with Freeman and your only right-handed hitters are Prado, Gonzalez, and half a Chipper.

  31. I have Nats season tix so I see Willingham a lot. I think he’d be an upgrade offensively in LF. No offense to Matty (who’s probably my favorite Brave) but Willingham is a pretty consistent hitter with more pop. Defensively, they’re probably about the same — meaning just okay. Willingham absolutely could not play CF.

    The Nats need all kinds of pitching, so I’m sure the GMs would have plenty to talk about. But I’d prefer to upgrade CF, unless mClouTh surprises and starts raking.

  32. #53 And he has made over a million dollars playing baseball.

    #54 Assuming that Willingham is better than a Diaz/Hinske/someone platoon and we are ok carrying another mediocre bat in CF to go along with AAG. Question is: Is Willingham THAT much better to justify trading a Teheran, Delgado, Minor for him?

  33. Also keep in mind that Rizzo is trying to trade Dunn. If he’s getting close on a deal, I doubt he trades his only other OFer who can hit (Willingham) unless he gets a good #3-4 hitter somewhere in mix.

  34. Thanks to spike and csg for answering my question.

    I’m not going to be surprised if Wren comes out with a trade no one saw coming, but I’m starting to be doubtful about the available options… Ugh, it sucks that the players on the trading block don’t match our needs, especially when we have a lot of players we could trade.

  35. This is probably the dumb, traditional, anti-sabre guy in me, but I’d really like to see Dunn with a tomahawk across his chest. Even though he is LH, atrocious in LF, and pretty high on the Ks. Something about that kind of power in the Braves lineup just makes me a little giddy.

  36. Four teams already out of it in the NL Central. That’s a pretty pathetic division.

  37. I take Dunn in a heartbeat if he weren’t so expensive. But he is.

    He makes up for the Ks with lots of walks (and lots of HRs). He also generally plays RF or 1B, but I guess he could play LF.

  38. Dunn would play full time so he wouldn’t just be a substitute for Hinske. More like Hinske/Diaz/whomever else might have been put in LF.

    Melky/McLouth in CF and Dunn in LF would make for some interesting watching.

  39. $12M so the balance of 2010 would be about $5M or so. But he’s a FA after this year and Rizzo is asking for the moon. So whomever gets Dunn will will likely be giving up good ML-ready players and likely taking on all of Dunn’s contract.

  40. AAR, right, I don’t think I’ve seen him in the OF at all this year. But he played some RF last year and used to play LF full time. But I agree with your point, he’d be a fright in LF now, especially without a star defensive CF to bail him out on anything to his left.

  41. where do you put Willingham? Id be fine with Willingham, Heyward, Diaz around the horn, but would they move Heyward to CF?

  42. @32 – the nicest thing about a Manny acquisition (not that it will ever happen) is it would cost only money not current Braves players. You could wrap him in plastic with a sign that says “Do Not Open Until October” because you are probably going to the playoffs with what you have now, so no need run him out every day. Maybe if the race heats up he plays more, but there is no reason to push him at all.

  43. The wonderful thing about Wren’s Out of Leftfield trades is that you never see them coming, like McLouth last year.

    Of course, after they get here, sometimes they aren’t that good…

  44. ryanc

    You were asking about minor league gamelogs in the last thread, try firstinning.com.

  45. #58 I guess but Willingham’s slash stats:
    2010 .274 .402 .485 .887 9th in the league OPS
    career – .266 .368 .479 .847

    compared to Jason Bay’ career
    .278 .374 .510 .884

    Willingham is a pretty darn good player.

  46. Willingham isnt that much of an upgrade over Diaz, IMO. He hits RH’rs better, but Diaz destroys LH’rs. Willingham is Diaz/Hinske into one, but not worth the cost of prospects for a marginal upgrade. You add Luke Scott to platoon with Diaz and move Hinske to the backup PH role. Probably cost less and gives you just as much production

  47. #78 – to your point. I’d rather that Wren tinker at the edges than give up one of our prize pitching prospects for a small upgrade.

  48. As long as the Phillies don’t get Oswalt, I’m happy no matter what the Braves do. Oswalt could land them the WC, and a rotation of Doc/Oswalt/Hamels would be deadly in the playoffs.

  49. Dunn would be that absolute threat in the middle of the line-up that the Braves really haven’t had since….damn I cannot even remember. I don’t put Tex in the same category as people like Dunn, Howard and Pujols. Heyward will get there.

    The Jays are not going to give up on Lind this soon.

    Diaz is just ridiculous against lefthander pitching, which means the Braves will probably end up with a CF.

    I say play Chipper at max 4 games a week for the rest of the way.

  50. If you adjust for the park, Willingham’s numbers look a good deal better. The Neutralize Stats function on B-R has his slash at .292/.423/.515. That’s at just about this year’s NL level (4.41 runs a game: actual 2010 NL 4.42).

  51. Actually Willingham is 9th in MLB in OPS. He is outperforming Jason Bay this season by a substantial margin.

  52. #78 – Would Willingham be just a small upgrade over Diaz/Hinske? I dunno, you said it, I was just wondering if you had anything to back that statement up.

  53. Willingham is one of the few guys we could acquire that would be a real impact bat.

  54. I also like him because he fits right in to the Braves way of hitting this season — he sees lots of pitches and takes walks. I’d love to have him, but I’d fix CF first.

  55. @78 –
    Willingham is damn near even against lefties (ahead this year), and way better against righties. He doesn’t need a caddy at this point, which is worth a fair bit.

    JW Splits 2010
    RHP .267/.391/.453 Career .264/.360/.469
    LHP .297/.435/.581 Career 270/392/.508

    MD 2010
    RHP .232/.259/.304 Career .273/.329/.381
    LHP .281/.317/.614 Career .341/.378/.544

  56. JW (career)
    RHP – .264/.360/.469
    LHP – .270/.392/.508

    MD and EH platoon
    RHP – .263/.346/.458
    LHP – .341/.378/.544

    or add Luke Scott in with Diaz
    RHP – .271/.356/.511

  57. Tonight’s lineup: Prado 4 Heyward 9 Chipper 5 McCann 2 Glaus 3 Hinske 7 Gonzalez 6 McLouth 8 Hanson 1

  58. @93 – Yes, Rizzo needs an OFer back. He’d also need someone with Matty’s type of bat if he’s trying to trade Dunn too.

  59. Luke Scott is a career .271/.356/.511 hitter vs RHP. Just sayin’.

    NM, csg beat me to it.

  60. DOB Tweet: Braves lineup: 1. Prado 2B, 2. Heyward RF 3. Chipper 3B, 4. McCann C, 5. Glaus 1B, 6. Hinske LF, 7. Gonzalez SS, 8. McLouth CF, 9. Hanson RH

  61. dusty,
    thanks for the site.

    JW is a bama boy also. a year and a half of him would be great! i cant see the nats trading him though. however, i like the hinske/diaz platoon just fine. i mean, it’s not like one or the other is not available in a pinch hitting role any given night. we’re getting average defense with a little above average offense in left. center is a different story.

  62. @95
    you forgot to mention for the 4th time. that’s a pretty big difference than a player going into arb for the first time.

  63. Nate McLouth’s most similar player on B-R is Brad Wilkerson — who fell off a cliff and was out of the game at age 31.

  64. The wonderful thing about Wren’s Out of Leftfield trades is that you never see them coming, like McLouth last year.

    Of course, after they get here, sometimes they aren’t that good…

    Yeah and Out-Of-The-Blue trade that sucks – like we just had – is like what happened to Carl Crawford last night. I wouldn’t mind a little advance warning if we are targeting another guy with a .290 career OBP.

  65. I know I’m being the sunny, optimistic guy here, but it’s amazing what a relatively healthy Heyward does for the lineup.

    If he can stay in there & really get it going, Prado-Heyward could be as devastating a 1-2 as there is in the NL.

    And I’ll mention it again—gotta give Bobby some props for putting him at the 2 spot. Didn’t think he had it in him.

  66. Just heard during the Royals radio broadcast:

    “The Royals are going to be starting a series with the New York Yankees on Thursday. It’s going to be Bruce Chen versus CC Sabathia”

    There’s something sad about that to me.

  67. When was the last time the Braves had a consistent right-handed power hitting outfielder?

    EDIT: I’m getting old. Forgot all about AJ.

    I agree Ububba….devastating and fun to watch. I just wish the Braves would have saw the thumb as an issue before they did.

  68. I think Willingham would be a significant upgrade–Diaz, as good as he is against lefties, is basically a platoon player. Willingham is a solid everyday player. On the other hand, right now I think Willingham is struggling a bit and I would hate to lose Diaz’s bat against lefties.

    The thing is, there is a debate going on here in DC about whether to keep the Big 3 (Zimmerman, Dunn, and Willingham) together. Zimmerman, for one, is lobbying to do so and I’m not sure the Nats would want to alienate their best player even if he is tied up for several years. Plus, I think the Nats have to worry about the signal they are sending to fans, if they trade Dunn and/or Willingham just as the fans are starting to get invested in Strasburg. At the very least, they would, I think, expect a lot back for Willingham. I’m not sure it’s worth it, although I might change my mind if Diaz cools off.

    Re right-handed power hitting outfielder–you forgot about Jeff–oh yeah, never mind.

  69. How could I forget about Sheffield. What an offensive club that was….and still no WS ring. So frustrating.

  70. I really don’t get the Willingham love. I really don’t get why we’d go after anyone — apart from the Manny/Braun/Untouchable class — who’s not a center fielder. Well, I guess the Luke Scott thing would make sense, too.

  71. As far as Willingham goes, here in DC there is a lot of pressure from Nat fans and “the face of the franchise” Ryan Zimmerman to keep the team together. So if there is a trade, the Braves will be giving up a bundle.

  72. Sheffield & Albert Belle, for me.

    I saw Belle hit a ball off the facing of Yankee Stadium’s upper deck that bounced halfway back to the infield. Sounded like a blasting cap going off when he hit it.

    4 other memorable bombs:

    Andruw Jones hit one in the upper deck of the old Vet in Philly—loud like Belle’s. It was super-humid that night & the balls were really flying.

    In a late-game blowout vs. the Braves at Shea—Sheff had already hit a laser-beam GSHR—Mo Vaughn (OK, a lefty) hit one off the Budweiser sign, high above the regular scoreboard. I think that made it 8-2 ATL, so there were about 11 people left in the stadium.

    For Seattle, Jay Buhner hit one over the Yankee bullpen that almost hit an ambulance. And it was high as a helicopter the whole route.

    A-Rod hit a 2-run, walk-off, cannon shot against Jorge Sosa (had to be ’06) that landed very close to Buhner’s. When he hit it, he looked at the Yankee dugout & started preening. That one hurt.

    Wish I’d seen Dick Allen in his early Philly years.

  73. in his latest blog, dob hints at melky and dunn for cody ross. i’d be down with that.

  74. I remember Dick Allen. I think he used a heavy bat something like 38 oz. Maybe 40. Wielded it like a tootpick.

  75. I remember Allen with the White Sox, mostly. He was an MVP, but didn’t get to see him much because he was in the AL.

  76. I don’t know about pressure from DC fans. There are a few Nat diehards, sure, but not a whole lot of them. I understand why the team wouldn’t want to alienate any of the few they have built up over the last few years, but… it’s pretty much been a terrible team since they came to the city, and whatever fan support they have from Strasburg is pretty much built on sand until they actually start winning baseball games.

    Unless the front office objects — which would be a bad idea, in my opinion — I don’t think there’s a whole lot to prevent Mike Rizzo from making the best deal he can.

    This is just my perspective. You may have seen different in your slice of DC, Tony.

  77. Ububba and Johnny…thx for making me feel young again.

    Mac…you are correct, Gant would hit some rockets foul. Although it seems to me he killed a couple in the Astrodome.

    Poor Melky. If he wasn’t such an average CF, he probably would be useful. I sort of like the guy.

  78. Melky is a good 4th OF’r with a good throwing arm. He’s useful that he can spell all three OF position. However, he’s worth about $1.5-2 mil max, not the $3m that he’s getting

  79. I’m by no means a believer in Ross as “what this team needs”, but if that’s all it takes then I say go for it. At the worst he plays like Melk and we’re only down a LH reliever who likely would have been supplanted in the long run anyway by Collins.

    At best we have a Diaz who can play a decent CF, which isn’t a bad thing at that price.

  80. @120
    i was one of the other 10 people left at Shea to see that blast from Mo Vaughn. i’ll never forget that, i thought the ball was going to go right through the Bud sign and keep going

  81. ububba – That ARod homer off Kim Jong-Il hurt. No idea why we thought he could close after he failed as a starter. Better than Ken Ray, I guess.

    re: Ross – Why would the Marlins want Melky? Yankees won’t be paying any of his salary next year…he’s an obvious non-tender candidate.

  82. What I don’t want is for Wren to get carried away and give away the farm. At this point, the Braves are on roughly a 95-win pace; if they maintain that, the Phillies would have to go 47-22 to tie and the Mets 46-22. If the Braves go 35-34, they win 90 games; the Phillies would still have to go 42-27 to tie. As odd as it sounds, if I was going to go for it, I might prefer going after an Oswalt because I’m not sure the Braves have a true ace for October (assuming they get there, of course). But that’s not going to happen.

  83. Alex,

    The thing about the DC area is, there is a market here for baseball. Hell you know, you lived here before. With the Orioles return to prominence nowhere in sight, there is a hunger for baseball in the area. I think there is actually legitimate fan support for the team, of course winning will bring those fans out to the park, but there is legitimate fan support. So I believe there is pressure to keep that nucleus of Zimmerman, Dunn and Willingham together along with SS.

    I just checked out the MLB baseball attendance this year…and I am somewhat shocked. The Brewers have drawn more than the Braves. The Astros and D-backs have drawn more than the Reds, Padres and White Sox. The Cubs are 7th? Who wouldn’t want to own the Cubs? No matter how much they suck, they will draw. Does anyone really believe new stadiums will help in Florida?


  84. let me clarify what i said. this is the first line:

    “The Marlins have reportedly talked to the Braves about lefty reliever Mike Dunn in a Ross trade.”

    and here’s the second:

    “So how would they make room for Cody Ross? Well, there’s Melky Cabrera, who’s a lot more affordable ($3.1 mill this season, then arbitration) and has certainly been more productive than McLouth this season.”

    now that i re-read it, i’m not quite sure what the hell he’s trying to say…

  85. I can’t believe Yunel has hit two HR in four games after hitting 0 HR in 75 games with the Braves. I mean, we all know it was a bad trade. There’s no need to rub it in.

  86. Vs. LH Pitcher

    The Prado
    Commando Ross
    Z. Chipper/Infante
    Pimpbot(D. Ross to swap with Diaz if McCann gets day off)
    The Chosen One

  87. @137, check out the Phillies. I lived there when no one went to games (around ’97-’01). When I went to Braves series at the Vet, the stadium was almost completely empty.

    After I split town, they decided to get a fancy new ballpark, and their attendance skyrocketed. Now they’re one of the top draws in baseball, going on seven years.

    If the Phillies can turn it around, any team can. The whole city only talked about them as a punchline. They took the honeymoon period, upped their payroll, and kept the fan interest up. Maybe the Marlins can do the same.

  88. Adding Rollins, Howard, Hamels & Utley had a lot to do with that.

    I looked it up. That titanic Mo Vaughn blast was off Gryboski—guess that sinker didn’t sink.

    It was Vaughn’s second of the game, but I don’t rememeber that first one (off Glavine) at all. Wonder why…

  89. Tony, I still live in DC, but I have to confess I don’t go to a lot of the games. So you may know more a lot more about the fan community than I do.

    But I think most Nats fans would recognize that there’s Zimmerman and Strasburg (and Bryce Harper), and then there’s everyone else in the organization. I doubt many tears would be shed for Willingham, IF the perceived return were solid. After all, any diehard Nats fan knows that they aren’t going anywhere this year. I just haven’t seen what you’re seeing.

  90. That’s a horrible story about Cox hitting his wife and her “standing by her man.” Wow. That’s just awful. I was really enjoying everything right up until that.

  91. 147, completely agreed. There is absolutely no excuse for beating a woman. Ever. Do it once, and you’re no friend of mine.

    And I don’t care what the woman says about it at all.

  92. I do care what she says. It’s her life.

    Bobby Cox has been an amazing manager, and a significantly more flawed human being. Hitting his wife is something I can never forgive — but it’s absolutely something that his wife can forgive. And I take her forgiveness very seriously.

  93. Hitting his wife is something I can never forgive

    That’s exactly what I said.

    — but it’s absolutely something that his wife can forgive.

    Who said it ain’t so?

  94. I agree with Tony about baseball in DC. True, there is no great base of Nats fans yet-most of us are fans of other teams that go to the games for that team. But, many, like me, will root for the Nats when they play someone other than their team. The only way to build a fan base is to get people invested in the team; obviously that happens with winning and, perhaps more importantly, looking like you are trying to win. I think the Nats have alienated a lot of people over the years that are potential fans by seeming not to spend the money necessary to win. With Strasburg and, soon Harper, they are starting to create somewhat of a buzz–at least people talk about them now, for example, on the local sports talk radio, the Nats used to be an afterthought. Now, it may, and very likely does, make sense from a baseball standpoint for the Nats to trade guys like Willingham to create more depth in the organization. But I think they really believe (realistically or not)they can contend in a couple of years. More importantly, trading Willingham, especially since they really don’t have anyone close to being able to replace his offense, is going to be perceived badly by potential fans and by guys like Zimmerman. So, pace AAR, I don’t think this is a deal they can make lightly–they have to show they got a real return.

  95. Hate to see that story dredged up again — I’m not sure it has a place in what is something less than a “man in full” story. If you’re writing a biography, fine. But this is an angle piece, and the incident with his wife is outside the angle. It’s jarring to read not just because it’s unpleasant, but because it’s shoehorned. I think they just wanted it in there.

  96. Wow….I forgot Bobby beat up his lady. I knew there had to be another reason for me not being a bigger fan. Besides the one World SERIES ring.

  97. #152, that wasn’t how I read it. It seemed of a piece with the article’s exploration of the personality that has led Bobby to get ejected more than anyone else, ever. The article argues that his ejections aren’t cynical, they’re an honest expression of his erupting anger, anger that he has struggled to control in other walks of his life.

    Tom, you said, “I don’t care what the woman says about it at all.” All I was saying is that I disagreed.

  98. From the previous thread:

    Sansho1, Nate McOUT’s not important enough for me to care to spell his name correctly. If you don’t want to respond to my posts because of that, your call. All I care is that he’s off the team.

  99. SEC commissioner Mike Slive referred to Lane Kiffin as “He Who Shall Not Be Named” today during Media Days.

  100. Not sure how seriously I take it if she forgave him five to six times, as the article states. But since I’m not privy to the situation, I’ll withhold judgment and say that I hope Bobby got the help he needed too, whether it was for alcoholism or straight up anger management. He’s much, much better than that.

  101. Regarding attendance, the aggregate is down because we’ve only played 45 games. The per-game is up for the year, and will go higher I think, as the team struggled early and school wasn’t out yet. Attendance has really been going up – the MIL series was packed except for hot n rainy Sunday. People here will go if the team is winning.

  102. I see Alex Gordon is still destroying rotting in AAA. Any residual interest in him as a trade target anymore?

  103. @154

    I don’t know, maybe. I read it as exploring how the ejections might be of a piece with his success, as counter-intuitive as that seems.

  104. Re: Nats
    My take is from one Mets/Nats game I attended earlier this month, but Marc’s view seemed to be what I experienced.

    I like to talk to people at games & everyone I spoke with was either a Mets fan or a former Orioles fan.

    I’m not sure what the sports-team analogy would be—Baltimore Ravens? New Jersey Devils?—but I believe the Nats could win over a generation if they got good for awhile.

    #147-150 & 152
    Their business. Ultimately, none of my business. Still a regrettable chapter, to be sure.

    Sansho1, SI did put it on the cover when it happened.

    But I gotta disagree with Sam here somewhat. It is jarring, but it seems deliberately so, to me. Discussing that incident (or, it seems, incidents) speaks to the notion of Bobby’s inner-anger & motivations (perhaps in a way you find unconvincing.) All these years later, nobody talks on the record about it—and why would they?—that’s why it sits there.

    To me, you can’t write that kind of story, which essentially delves into what makes Bobby tick, and not touch on it.

    I’ve said it before, but the word “balance” has been perverted forever. Before it became an Orwellian marketing term, IMO, this is what it once meant.

  105. Shish kebabs, matambre, rice, broccoli and Braves baseball…does it get any better?

  106. @164

    well, that was 3 very poor at-bats against a very hittable pitcher. let’s hope it gets better in the 2nd inning.

  107. spike, I stuffed it with kielbasa, ham, red pepper, carrot, celery and romano cheese, wrapped in bacon.
    I grilled it for an hour and a half over mediumish heat, turning every 20 minutes until the internal temp was 180

  108. Throwing a slow breaking ball across the plate on a 1-2 count to Jon Garland probably isn’t the best idea. Just blow him away.

  109. Hanson is a moron. He needs to develop some brains to go along with his ability.

    Maybe chipper ate them.

  110. What are hitters’ batting average against Hanson with two strikes?

    EDIT: and Joe Simpson answers the question.

  111. @ 172 – Zombie Chipper! I get it. Brains. I appreciate zombie humor.

    It took me awhile though.

  112. Venable was out on the delayed steal (which was a stupid play). Truth in broadcasting.

    I doubt Hanson calls his own pitches every time he gets 2 strikes on a guy. I don’t know if it’s on McCann or Tommy or both, but someone needs to get it fixed.

  113. Hanging sliders and high, level fastballs like in many of his recent outings. Not really sure what’s wrong but he doesn’t seem to get his pitches down with any regularity.

  114. Let the record show that Hanson is nibbling, and just gave up singles to guys slugging .297, .219 (a pitcher), and .365. This keeps happening — he’s capable of blowing these guys away, guys who can’t possibly hurt him with power.

  115. Pirates by the way of Zach Duke hit Fielder again tonight, in the first inning to get it out of the way.

  116. It’s that, and he’s also getting bad luck. A lot of these hits aren’t hit particularly hard and are just finding holes.

    But Tommy should be finishing a lot of them off with Ks.

  117. Hanson just remind me of a tall K.Davies though I haven’t watched him quite open.

  118. Unrelated: How many innings has KK thrown this month? I almost forgot he was on the team.

  119. Big Red at 50 pitches through 2.2 innings. Any predictions on when we see the first Hanson CG? I say August 2012.

  120. braves14
    I prefer pitchers and I’m not an expert. But Hanson is absolutely has no conttol. He throws balls in the miidle. Even I’m scared of his location.

  121. He’s thrown 23 pitches this inning, right? And the first batter got out on the first pitch.

  122. I blame McLouth for Hanson’s bad start. McLouth is just so bad that he radiates waves of suck that are actually contagious. Go back to AAA where you belong Suck McDiseased.

    Also, Hanson: Stop being such a pussy. You’re not a finesse pitcher, so stop trying to be one. >:o

  123. McLouth, if your Awfulitis makes Hanson give up the lead again I’m going to ask Jason Heyward on Twitter to run over you again.

  124. There’s your tie, Tommy. Time to step it up.

    Oh, forgot about that guy. There’s your lead.

  125. KK has pitched 1 inning since June 21st. I’m guessing he was rusty, because his stat line from that game is horrid.

  126. @ 223 – Thanks. One inning in the last month? That’s even less than I thought.

  127. Just an impression based on old memories,

    Is it me or does this team hit a lot like Terry Pendleton did?

  128. By the way,

    I really love a guy cook even I do cook. .*
    It’s different a traditional culture with us. I remember 71 years old kiwi father did cook for me when I attended the summer school in Auckland and the husband of my english lady cooked for me too when I visited Birmingham in England. I think that’s lovely. Don’t blame me, it’ my style:)

  129. Checked, the count to Glaus was right. One of the pitches that bounced was a foul tip.

  130. Not really, Ringer; Pendleton never walked very much. He had 70 walks in 1987 with the Cardinals, but his next highest single-season total was 44. Or what Mac said.

  131. Ok, the team is going to start suffering from all of Tommy’s HBP if this keeps up.

  132. Over/under on how many times Tommy gets charged during his career? Maybe he’s working on the fear angle.

  133. Yeah, Glaus wasn’t on the bag there. I’ll accept that as a makeup call for Venable being called safe in the second, leading to both of the Padres’ runs.

    Unless I’m just taking crazy pills on that one. EJ seemed to think it wasn’t even close, but it looked like a tie live and an out on the replays.

  134. Juuust pulled him off the bag.

    Pirates up 10-3 on the Brewers. I’m usually pretty indifferent about both teams, but after Ken Macha’s whining I’m rooting against them every chance.

  135. That’s about the sort of hit you expect from Louth. (I am withholding the Mc until he re-proves himself, as he is shaming all of us of Gaelic heritage.)

  136. Was Nate checking his arm for slivers? That could be a DL stint and it worked wonders for Matt.

  137. Adrian Gonzalez made that more difficult than I thought possible. At least without Dan Kolb being involved.

  138. just read the SI piece. i thought it was fair. the part about spousal abuse was a little clunky but si tends to write pieces w/ negative spots. overall i enjoyed it.

  139. Also, per DOB’s twitter:

    “Tremendous play by #Braves’ Gonzalez going to outfield grass & making long throw to 1st. Pulled Glaus off a bit, but gave out for effort”

    Is that a sly Cuzzi reference? If so, I regained a little respect.

    Edit, probably not, since Cuzzi’s quote was “decent attempt”. So Glaus made a decent attempt to keep his foot on the bag there.

  140. In retrospect, given how little information they gave on the actual incident, I’m also a bit annoyed with SI about that bit. Either give it fair coverage or don’t bother bringing it up.

  141. Cox’s wife denies he ever hit her in the piece, doesn’t she? That part of the article seemed very rushed, as if the author felt he had to make mention of it somehow.

  142. Tommy at least starting to paint the outside of the plate with the fastball. I’d still like to see him get the ball down a little more though.

  143. He’s throwing the fastball a lot more the last couple of innings and the Padres can’t catch up.

  144. I’m amazed by the Padres’ record relative to their lineup….outside of Gonzalez, it’s one of the least intimidating orders in the NL.

  145. “one of the few players in baseball named after a truck..”

    somebody boo that man

  146. @262 As soon as he was announced I rushed here to say something, you’re too quick.

  147. Good work by Hanson after a shaky start. Sadly, I have the premonition that Cox will blow the quality start by having Hanson try and fail to pitch one more inning.

  148. I dont know, he’s pretty much shut them down the last three innings. Id let him get thru one more

  149. Well, at least Bobby needed just one baserunner to make the right decision. He still should have done so before the inning, though.

  150. apparently Bobby has lost all trust in his RH relief pitchers, outside of Saito because he can only pitch in the 8th inning of course

    Gonzalez has a .904OPS against LH, .949OPS against RH

  151. Why not err on the side of caution with a young pitcher’s arm? There’s not a good reason to push it.

  152. what has Venters IP looked like in the minors… I know he was a starter but Im wondering how much Bobby can ride him

  153. I don’t think 100 pitches is holy writ. But Tommy should have been pinch-hit for. If all goes well, an inning might take 14 pitches. But if he gives up a baserunner, it could take 20, 30, or more. If you’re not prepared to give a guy enough leash to face one baserunner, you shouldn’t send him back out there.

  154. SI piece was very good. The part about the incident with his wife was appropriate since the article is about Bobby’s passion, loyalty and his temper. I’m with ububba, its the Cox family’s business and while it is shameful it doesn’t change my opinion of Bobby Cox the baseball manager one bit.

  155. Oh, my boy Jonny. His sinker speeds were around 95-96. Super! Eeven fastballs are not bad. I thouhgt the ball made an arch in the air. Beautiful!

  156. Moylan is still fine….

    #288 – Larussa is a jackass, but anyone playing the Phils are the good guys the rest of the way (outside of the Mets)

  157. braves.com article about Blanco being sent down mentioned more playing time for him there. Schaefer to the bench?

  158. Well, I understand why why Venters is still in — 2 LHB were due up — and he got out of it fine.

    It just seems like Saito hasn’t even warmed up in the bullpen lately. That groin must still be bothering him.

    That leads me to believe that Bobby was saving Moylan in case Venters got in trouble, which would be why Hanson was left in the game into the 7th.

  159. Good thing it’s a while until the Braves go to Pittsburgh, there seems to be something in the water up there. Up 15-3 on the Whiners.

  160. Perhaps Bobby’s letting Saito nurse that hammy back to being 100% with a kickass Venters and Moylan pitching more appropriately.

  161. Ah crap. Wags, whatever you did on that pitch, don’t do it again.

    … see, you did it again.

  162. At 1-2, 1 out, my wife says, “Only four strikes away from winning.” Next pitch, over the fence. It’s her fault.

  163. Anyone else think of Headly Lamar, the bad guy from Blazing Saddles, when Chase Headly hits?

  164. He was out. Never touched the plate. What happened to umpires wanting to call it a night?

  165. billy texted me earlier and said he’s tired of saving games. it’s all about the wins now.

  166. Somewhere, Johnny Damon is going “Hell I could have thrown it in from there.”

    Still, I blame McLouth.

  167. 341 – McCann never actually tagged him, he did clip the plate. Either way, Wagner gave up 2, Prado made a bad throw, and Bmac didnt block the plate. Gotta find a way to win this one

  168. Bad throw by Prado…….McCann did what we have come to expect. He will never be Mike Sciosia

  169. @346, I’m replaying it right now, zoomed in 100X, and, in my opinion, he did not touch the plate.

  170. Those balls were hit HARD off of Wagner. He had a week-ish long episode like that earlier in the year in the Diamondbacks/Reds homestand. Dunno.

  171. I was thinking Hanson, Heyward, and Wagner to the Mets for Francoeur. That guys a ballplayer and he’s great in the clubhouse.

  172. Who is this Padres team? It seems like half are sons of former minor leaguers, and the others are some PCL team from Tacoma.

  173. Joe just said all 3 of our 3 OFs can throw. He obviously forgot McLouth can’t/doesn’t throw.

  174. What the fuck is McLouth’s problem with throwing in from the OF? All kidding aside, that shit pisses me off to no fucking end. He NEVER throws the ball from the OF. He could be fucking Pujols out there and that shit would make me want to trade him.


  175. So is this a thing now, McLouth not throwing the ball? Does he have Steve Blass Disease and we just don’t know it?

  176. Saito was warming up in the ‘pen so he is evidently available. Bobby apparently is just trying to avoid using him if he can to let him heal.

  177. the padres also lack any RH power whatsoever, combined with lefties and switch hitters. why not use venters?

  178. You would think that if O’Flaherty is ever let out of quarantine someone would be really interested in him, given the LOOGYphilia which afflicts MLB.

  179. The Pads’ pen arms all sport some seriously nasty BB/K numbers. I think the lst three guys have all walked less than 10 on the year.

  180. This thread just passed the day of the Escobar/Gonzalez trade for the longest of the season.

  181. What does that “clap-clap clap-clap clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap” rhythm come from? I’m pretty sure it’s the same beat as the beginning to “Do You Remember Rock ‘n Roll Radio?”

    Rock and, rock ‘n roll, radio — let’s go!

  182. Well no matter what happens, at least we have Charlie Manuel to laugh at.

    Send the pitcher to bat with the bases loaded, 2 outs in the top of the 7th in a 1-1 game, who proceeds to strike out swinging on three balls.

    He then goes out in the bottom of the 7th and promptly gives up a HR on the first pitch.

    Charlie Manuel – lol.

  183. If the Phillies trade Jayson Werth for Roy Oswalt, we’ll have Amaro to laugh at too.

  184. With Conrad pinch-running for Glaus, it looks like he would stay in the game and Prado would move to first if the Braves don’t win here.

  185. 1. the 1-1 wasn’t a strike
    2. Stauffer throws to 1st like a girl.
    3. Two of the worst pitch out attempts I’ve ever seen tonight

  186. Yup. We’ll probably get to see Slugging 1B Martin Prado again. ‘Course, he has been slugging lately. :-)

  187. Felipe Lopez doubles for the Cards, after a throwing error on a sacrifice bunt by Ryan. 4-1 Cards in the 8th.

  188. Who do we have left? KK and Chavez? Which one loses the game?

    I got a $50 on Chavez. Bobby gets tired and cranky, decides to forfeit, and throws Chavez in to let him give up 5 runs on 1 pitch, a feat only possible by the pitching god that is Chavez.

  189. Saito’s due in in the bottom of the inning, so we better win it here or it will be Chavez time.

  190. That’s Headley!

    Only PHs left for either team are the non-starting catchers, Hundley and Ross.

  191. I hope we win it here, because I’m tired of being cynical.


    Okay Derek Lowe pinch hitting so Saito can pitch a second inning a row is fuel for at least another hour and a half of cynicism.

  192. Joe said earlier that Medlen isn’t available, but I’d think he would be if it goes 18 or something. Or maybe he’s just a pinch-hitter tonight.

    UPDATE: Well if Lowe is hitting (Hudson must be at home) then I guess they’re holding Medlen back.

  193. you guys misunderstood, I meant thats why venters pitched the 8th, in response to inquiries why Saito wasn’t in.

    On that note though, only Bobby is dumb enough to only use Dunn for one batter in an extra inning game. I can’t wait for retirement during games like this.

  194. Switch hitting pinch hitter even, and he is supposed to start Saturday I think Joe said.

  195. No, but Bobby would rather have a pitcher bunt the runner over than burn the backup catcher.

  196. Maybe we should keep Melky so he can be McBad’s cutoff man for whenever a fly ball is hit just past 2B.

  197. I like the walk just because it eats up their bullpen a bit more than otherwise.

    ETA: also eats their bench. Now we just have to hurt someone….

  198. Well, let’s see… We’re going to lose this game, McCann, Wagner, and Venters won’t be available tomorrow, and Medlen may or may not be able to pitch on Saturday.

  199. Fucking fuck trike sack mutts.

    Trade the team and build for next year. Coincidence that the Braves choke the day McDumblooking comes back? I don’t think so.

  200. heath bell has only given up 2r in one appearance this yr…pretty much lights out on the road too

  201. Well, that could have been worse. Not easily, but it could. By lasting six more innings, for instance.

    Or by having Rod Barajas hit a homer for the Mets. They’re now 3-3 in the 6th.

  202. I’m pissed that Bobby intentionally walked a guy with a sub .600 OPS to get to one of the guys who Mac called one of the Padres’ 2 good hitters.

  203. @490 Yes, with the benefit of hindsight, that was stupid. Then again, at the time it was stupid too. But the real issue is the hitting. The Braves had one inning where they hit tonight.

  204. What a crappy, crappy, crappy loss. God, I hate losses like this. Why couldn’t the Padres have just beaten us soundly early on, like 9-1, we get Jesse “the human white flag” Chavez in there, we take Chipper out in the 6th, and we call it a day.

    Instead, Wagner blows a 4-2 lead in the 9th, we waste half our team and we lose. And their closer makes us look like little league hitters. Just a shitty loss.

  205. #491

    We have at least a respectable center field option…playing in Gwinnett. The 2 ass clowns in Atlanta shouldn’t be starting in center for the Orioles.

  206. Medlen threw 24 pitches tonight and would only have 2 days rest before Saturday.

    My guess is that KK starts.

  207. This reminds me of a loss the Braves had against the giants early this season. Tough to swallow. Especially when you are two outs away like that. And we would have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for those meddling Hairstons!

  208. Billyy has been good most of the time but he does have four blown saves in a little more than half a season. That seems a bit high to me. You give your closer a two run lead in the ninth against a less than imposing lineup you expect to win. I don’t expect perfection but maybe a little better than this.

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