Mets 3, Braves 2

New York Mets vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – May 17, 2010 – ESPN.

Derek Lowe actually pitched okay for once, but it didn’t matter because the Braves went into baserunner death mode. They outhit the Mets 8-5, drew one more walk, and hit the game’s only homer, but managed to lose anyway through clutch outmaking, including two double plays, including one by Heyward with a runner on third and one out.

The Mets got two in the second on a double. Hinske cut it to 2-1 in the fifth with a homer, but the Mets got the run back in the top of the sixth. Chipper drove in Prado with a sac fly in the bottom of the inning, but that was it for the scoring. The Braves left the bases loaded in the eighth and the tying run on second in the ninth.

I wouldn’t get too excited about Lowe’s outing. First, it’s just the Mets, and second, he had just three strikeouts and the same number of walks. Mostly, he was lucky.

75 thoughts on “Mets 3, Braves 2”

  1. The Mets want to fire their manager. Plus, they’re the Mets.

    And they played a drastically more sound fundamental baseball game than we did.

    And they’re the Mets.

  2. This team is hard to watch right now. I cringe when Mac and Escobar are at the plate.

  3. I think we all know what we can take from this game:

    1)BMac either needs to sit and figure this vision thing out, or move down in the lineup. Christ have Hinkes bat cleanup, why not put the hottest bat in the middle of your lineup? BMac gives us NOTHING right now and to have him batting cleanup is outrageous

    2) Chipper is just not a viable open in the 3 hole anymore. I know it PAINS me to say that, I think its just about time we come to realize that he isn’t a 3 hole hitter anymore. Viable as a good and veteran bat? Absolutely, but not so much in the middle of a lineup. His power is gone, and he’s not hitting for the average he once was. I think he needs to move down in the lineup. We can’t afford to have our 3 hitter go up there and take walk after walk. We need hits from that position.

    4) What in god’s name is wrong with Yunel Escobar?

    That is all

  4. Braves:

    4 singles
    3 doubles
    1 homer
    4 walks
    5 strikeouts

    Mets:

    3 singles
    2 doubles
    0 homers
    3 walks
    7 strikeouts

    I hate losing games like that.

  5. What about a lineup like this: I think Prado is too vaulable of a hitter to be hitting leadoff in this lineup.

    Mclouth
    Heyward
    Prado
    Hinske
    Glaus
    Chipper
    Bmac
    Escobar
    pitcher

  6. If I were an opposing team I think I would steal every time a baserunner got to 1st. How long has it been since McCann has thrown someone out? The last throw he made with Moylan pitching was atrocious.

  7. bmac hurt us tonight, but glaus went 0 for 4 as well. so, either option would not have given good results. batting hinske at the cleanup spot would be an incredibly rash decision. there is no real cleanup hitter in this lineup and there hasnt been for quite some time.

    oh well, let’s get’em tomorrow.

    and jon, i hardly ever agree with your posts and i’m not starting today. that lineup makes no sense. i’d like to hear your reasoning.

    imo, the lineup we say tonight makes the most sense with the exception of heyward and chipper flipflopping. bmac might have to consider a move if he doesnt start producing.

  8. He threw Jody Gerut out at third the other day, but yeah I see your point. He needs to be hitting about .330 to compensate for his defense right now.

  9. How is batting hinske at cleanup a rash decision? I mean it’s clearly either Glaus or Hinske at the moment? Something is wrong with Bmac and to keep running him out there at cleanup is too much to ask. If he is going to play with “an issue” then move him down. Is that too much to ask?

  10. Couldn’t get the big hit in a very winnable game. The DPs certainly stung. Happens. Let’s hope we’re not revisiting that early-season pattern. Gotta get ’em tomorrow.

    And 3 ER (w/ 4 H & 3 BB/1 HBP) in 7 IP from Lowe. I’ll certainly take that from him.

  11. because he’s a career .778 ops ballplayer who has played part time for a major part of his career. shuffling the lineup doesnt change the fact that you’re moving a better player into a worse spot.

    if any move is done, glaus makes much more sense.

  12. I hate Jose Reyes. And I hate the Mets.

    And I hate being in last place again in the NL East.

    And I hate how many balls the Braves hit hard tonight that found gloves.

    And I hate how Jose Reyes prances around.

    And David Wright got lucky as hell on the backhand short hop.

  13. Mac,

    I know its probably been discussed here before, but does Melky have options left?

  14. Well if anything keeping Chipper at 3 is worse than moving BMac. I have faith BMac will rebound, I have zero faith Chipper is going to rebound into anything more than a high obp, high injury risk, low power, mid-low average player. That to me doesnt scream number 3 hitter

  15. nope…melky needs trading. the braves should make him go to the dl, do p90x hardcore for a month, lose 20 pounds, and put him on the trading block as a center fielder.

  16. this team continues to have problems scoring runners at third with one out, but yeah they shouldve won this game. Two decent outings in a row for Lowe now. Hope Medlen is good tomorrow cause we are 0-4 vs the Mets and 3-10 vs the division

  17. Hey isn’t Atlanta more centralish than easternish? Just asking.

    Good teams need to feast on the weak. Hopefully we are the feaster and not the feastee.

  18. Kagan…I call you on to pull us through against the evil Santana on Tuesday.

    Praise be to Kagan!1

  19. @3 re: Yunel Escobar

    I’m more than willing to believe the Melky Cabrera party punk theory.

  20. 26,
    If the situation doesn’t improve, I’ll buy that, too. Right now I’m still hoping we’re just dealing with a seemingly unexpected outcome in a small sample that means nothing.

  21. Round night all around. The double plays, particularly Heyward’s, hurt. I thought Lowe pitched pretty well today. It was the walks that did him in. He was getting some swings-and-misses, and there wasn’t a lot that got hit hard outside of the second. He wasn’t great by any stretch, but I think I’ll be happy if he pitches like he did today on most nights out.

    Edited to add: far more than anything Melky’s done, what’s killing the run production right now is Escobar, McCann, and Chipper not being the heart of the lineup. Essentially, we’re relying on a rookie, a couple stop-gaps, and our nominal #2 hitter to do all the damage.

    At least McLouth seems to have come around.

  22. Do I have any more followers in my “Replace Escobar with Infante” movement?

    Trade him. Let him Claudell some other team. We might even get something of value in return.

  23. He’s only been off the DL for two games — at least give him a chance to get going. He did get himself into scoring position in the ninth inning of a one-run game last night.

  24. I’d love to have been in the room when the Mariners decided to construct a team of position players for whom defense was the overriding concern. I have a suspicion that they (along with the Red Sox, who talked about defense in the same way all of a sudden) became entranced by rapidly improving defensive metrics. In my mind’s eye, the in-house analysts, suffused with the mantra “exploit market inefficiencies”, became so elated at their newfound ability to measure something that they inflated its importance just to show off their shiny new toy.

  25. Ububba @11 summarizes this game nicely. Can’t win them all.

    Too bad the Muts didn’t jump on Francoeur’s hot start to give him, say, a 3 yr $30m deal. He could then join the overpaid pantheon of Ollie Perez and the gang.

  26. Frenchy was never going to get 3/30. But there was pretty serious talk of a 3/15 extension last year, which would have suited me fine. I don’t see that happening now, unfortunately.

  27. The important part isn’t the exact number–it’s that the Mets make an expensive multi-year commitment to the Gwinnett County Out Machine.

  28. I can’t believe “pointedly ignore” is winning the poll considering how much cyber ink is devoted to him on the Journal, even in the post-Francoeur era. I think “demoralize” and “rip apart through analysis” should be options.

  29. @40, I want to see him strike out swinging or hit into a double play. I watch his at bats with relish.

  30. I don’t think he’s got the fire to go to Japan to play, and I think even crappy franchises won’t pay for his limited marquee value after this year. If he doesn’t turn it around to at least “pedestrian” I’d say there is a pretty real chance he is done after the season. Unfortunately, he didn’t even have the good sense to be a lefthanded hitter – he actually has a not horrible platoon split (.300/.341/.483 career vs LHP). Well maybe if he plays for the minimum or close to it.

  31. He’ll get more chances. The Orioles starting LF at the moment is Corey Patterson, a worse player than Frenchy and four years older. A formerly hot prospect can trade on those faded promises for a good while.

  32. I think Escobar’s value is at an all time low. We are better off sticking with him. He will be fine.

    Unless, somehow we can get Hanley Ramirez

  33. Everybody’s getting on Chipper but he was the only one to get a runner home last night with a man on third and one out. The rest either hit fielder’s choices that got the man on third out (Prado) or hit into double plays (Heyward). Not to mention the strike outs with men on and other double plays.

    I’m starting to think that making fun of Francouer so much is causing the losing streak to the Mets. Not that I don’t laugh at it. I’m just superstitious. But there is no way, even considering the Braves are not a great team, that they should be 0-4 to this bad of a Mets team. And if we can’t beat Santana tonight it will be 0-5.

    Ugh.

  34. He’ll get more chances.

    At a reduced salary, I agree. I wonder how he’ll deal with that, because there is no way, barring some kind of turnaround this season, anyone agrees to go to arb with him, or offer a contract anywhere near what he’s getting now. Perhaps I am overrating the state of the GM’s these days, but given that Damon (among others) had to struggle to get his deal, and is a far superior hitter, it seems unlikely that an overpay is in the offing for Frenchy.

  35. I don’t like Heyward batting 2nd. He needs to be in the middle of the order 3,4, or 5.

  36. Prado is not a leadoff hitter. Of course neither is mclouth. I think the bain of this lineup is the lack of a true leadoff and cleanup hitter.

  37. The bane of this lineup is several performers being well below their career norms simultaneously, and only two being above projection.

  38. Wow. Hanley doesn’t come off very well there. A HOF track shortstop signed to a very good contract would have massive value should things get out of hand though. You could get a boatload of good players/prospects.

    09:$5.5M, 10:$7M, 11:$11M, 12:$15M, 13:$15.5M, 14:$16M

  39. Bobby has to start Hinske with the way he’s swinging tonight doeesnt he? I know he struggles vs LH, but would he start Clevlen or Melky over him right now?

    Careers vs Johan

    Clevlen – 3 for 10, 1 2B, 1 3B, 1BB, 7K
    Melky – 2 for 10, 1 2B, 1BB, 1K
    Hinske – 0 for 5, 2K

  40. No, you’ll see Melky or Clevlen out there just because Bobby loves his righty/lefty match ups.

  41. I actually like how Fredi is handling this situation. Bodes well for the Braves…as he currently has to be the odds on favorite for Bobby’s job next year.

  42. 32,
    WRT the Red Sox, I think it had little to do with exploiting a market inefficiency and everything to do with improving the weakest part of their team. They ranked 29th in defensive efficiency last year. Plus, they’re so rich they don’t need to go around trying to exploit market inefficiencies.

  43. 59—Yup, and he may only be the third-best of the big three. (Have you seen what the often-overlooked Randall Delgado has been doing this year?)

    56—I’m hoping (against hope) to see Infante out there.

  44. Apparently, Hanley Ramirez is a dirtbag. F… him! I don’t want him or ANY player with his attitude on our team, no matter how good he is on the field.

  45. I just watched the Ramirez “effort”, and let me just say wow.

    Good for you Fredi. You handled that well.

  46. Tonight’s lineup: Prado, 4; Heyward, 9; Chipper, 5; Glaus, 3; McCann, 2; Escobar, 6; Cabrera, 7; McLouth, 8; Medlen, 1

    Figured Hinske wouldn’t play with Johan going, which is OK, but couldn’t we go with Infante or Clevlen?

  47. Stu, the future looks very bright doesnt it? 2012

    Jurrjens, Hanson, Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, Medlen…..Masters, Rasmus, and Oberholtzer have been pretty impressive also

  48. One question we talked about last night: if the Mets would Trade Jeffy back for Melky, would you do it? I personally would not, because on top of being useless, Frenchy appears to be dumb. I could never HATE Melky, I just feel sorry for him.

  49. Tom – I wouldnt make that trade. Jeff sucks and makes $5mil, Melky sucks and makes $3 mil. Id rather just release melky

  50. @52

    And which players are you refering to? I’m guessing you mean Escobar, Mclouth and BMac? At this point I wouldn’t put chipper in the “underperforming” category. The guy simply isn’t an above .300 25-30 hr guy anymore. The most we can expect from chipper is in the range of .250-.275, 15hr, 50rbi range. The writing is on the wall. This team isn’t going to the playoffs with those kinds of numbers from your number 3 hitter, it’s just the reality of it. The jury is still out on Glaus. He isn’t a cleanup hitter in my mind, but he may be setting up as a productive player in the 5 or 6 range. I think Hinske is our best bet in the 3 hole at the moment. This team hasn’t had a true cleanup in a long time, even Bmac at his best isnt a true cleanup hitter.

  51. I have seen nothing that’s demonstrated that Melky is any smarter than Jeffy. However, I would be scared to death if we got Jeffy back that Cox would try to start him for a few months. All it would take would be 10 or 15 good at bats. Melky can also bunt and he’s valuable in that role (if nothing else, it keeps Cox from using a “real hitter” to bunt). As said above, releasing Melky for nothing would be a 10X better deal than trading him for Francoeur.

  52. Case in point, I don’t think this team is a legit playoff contender with an aging Jones in the field and in the 3 hole everyday. In order for this team to be a consistently productive enough team offensively to make the playoffs you’d need guys like Hinske, Glaus, and Prado to all continue their hot hitting. Obviously all three will cool; the next question is when will Heyward level off and become more consistent instead of having slumps and flashes like he has had so far? Mclouth I believe will get it turned around. I’m not convinced Yunel is close because I think he’s the biggest head case on the team and doesn’t seem to have mental acuity it takes to snap out of slumps and poor performances. Bmac will get his issues figured out… its just a matter of when and how long. The latter of which is the most concerning.

  53. @70 Chipper, Escobar, McClouth, Mac, Glaus, and Diaz/Cabrera are all significantly below their career averages. Whether they “ought” to be or not is a different story, but I am sure the roster was constructed with the idea that over the course of the year all would be pretty close to that, some over, some under.

    Side point – I don’t know what you mean by a “true” cleanup hitter, but Chipper has been one of the best hitters in the league throughout his career. I realize he can’t overcome the fetishist who say “but he wasn’t hitting CLEANUP!” but the perpetual problem since Surhoff/Brogna has been getting offensive production from LF and 1B for this team

  54. @73

    No, I’m saying Chipper is “no longer” that caliber of player. I just wish we as braves fans can get over the nostalgia of how great Chipper “WAS”. That’s right, Chipper is a legit HOF player but he no longer has the skills to be in the upper echelon of players. He is simply an average player whose skills are declining wether you or anyone else wants to admit it. My point was that with the best we can expect from Chipper, it’s just not enough production from that spot to be considered a playoff contender.

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