New York Yankees acquire Javier Vazquez from Atlanta Braves for Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn – ESPN
Lord, what a terrible deal. Cabrera is a very ordinary player. Dunn is a LOOGY in the making; the Braves also sent Boone Logan to the Yankees so that balances out. I’m disgusted.
UPDATE: Apparently the Braves also got an A-ball pitching prospect. Whoopie.
i hate it.
This can’t be happening!!
please fall apart, please.
This has to be the first domino. Wren now has some next step in his plan to land a masher. Third step: Profit!
I had some hope for the season – now it is fading.
Wow. Melky Cabrera sucks. WHY?!
What a horrible trade — in no way, shape, or form, does this trade make sense. Only if this Vizcaino kid turns out as good as Neftali Feliz would I even consider this trade ever being any good. What a load of crap. Thanks for the lump of coal, Wren.
The only consolation I have is that Vazquez pitched like crap in the Bronx the one year he was there, so hopefully he’ll implode again. Not that I want him to be unsuccessful, but it’s the effing Yankees.
The Post is confirming that we also get a Arodys Vizcaino in the deal. 18 years old and went 2.13, 1.157, with a 3.47 SO/BB in A ball last year.
We’ll also be getting about 8.5 million in salary relief for the year, which I assume is all going to go to signing another bat—a first baseman?
Based on all the available offensive options at that range though it looks like a marginal improvement in offensive production or we hold flat and our pitching got way worse.
FRANK!!!! WTF ARE YOU DOING!!!!! Melky Cabrerra is the best you can do for the best pitcher on the staff?????? Even if Vazquez returns to his old pre ace inconsistent form he is STILL worth more than that piece of shit.
Anyone, some of you smart guys, please tell me that there is some silver lining to this retarded idiocy.
I hope so. Wren isn’t this stupid, is he?
WTF????? This is one of the worst, if not THE worst trade in the history of the Atlanta Braves!! It is so bad that it can’t be true, really. If it is true, Wren must be insane! There is absolutely NO rush to trade Vasquez at this point unless we get an exceptional package in return. And now THAT!
the melky=crap top 10:
1. melky is a below average centerfielder.
2. his obp is francoeurian
3. he provides no power
4. his ops is atrocious
5. he costs money
6. we beter be flipping him
7. this better not be true
8. i hate christmas trades
9. we better be getting poolholes to play first
10. frank wren is on the naughty list.
I think the Braves just got fleeced.
Ugh. Better be in the service of a better deal down the line.
Because Melkypoo is nothing more than one dude in a long line of crummy, marginal Yankees players who get hoisted to the rafters because they wear the pinstripes.
so we traded our best reliever and best starter for jesse chavez and melky cabrera? comforting.
It’s the other M. Cabrera we want.
lets play a game
who’s the worst
thats right, Wren just traded the guy who finished 4th in the NL CY Young voting for Cabrera (who will now have to be on the 25 man roster basically) and we actually have 5 of’rs who are better than him.
Garret Anderson > Melky Cabrera
Merry Christmas guys, guess Wren can go skiing now
Dayton Moore and Ed Wade just read about this trade and laughed.
But, seriously, I’d rather have Tyler Flowers than this package.
I was starting to like Wren, but this along with the Soriano deal is horrible. We may still be able to pull off a good year if we sign a big bat with the extra money, but it won’t be because Wren has done even a halfway decent job.
Does this mean we’re stuck with Lowe? OMG, that would make it even worse.
what is JS doing?
No way Wren does this unless no one wanted Lowe without us having to pay most of his freight. I’m worried about his confidence.
Can the front office plant an article with Bowman along the lines of when they really thought about it they liked Lowe more than Vasquez? He’d buy that right?
At least we held on to disgruntled Derek Lowe.
I wonder what we could have got for Vazquez as a deadline trade after falling out of playoff contention.
Hey, it’s ok. Anytime you can get a guy to replace the great Garrett Anderson’s numbers for your best pitcher YOU JUST HAVE TO DO IT!
I’m not getting political here, but Dick Morris has two recent books that describe Wren last two deals perfectly: “Fleeced” and “Catastrophe”
Please make it all go away. There is no possible outcome that will make this deal acceptablle.
i’m predicting that the Melky Way will hit .390 with 54 hr’s for the bravos next year
Cabrera wasn’t even better, defensively, in CF than McLouth was in 2009.
I keep looking for justifications. I keep failing to find them.
Maybe I’m just hoping that this craptastic deal is just the tip of the iceberg, but this has to mean there’s a nearly a deal in place for a guy like Bay or the other Cabrera, right.
I mean, can any of you remember another trade like this, one of the best pitchers in the league for a guy who probably won’t even start in a weak outfield?
The upside of Melkey is that he’s really cheap. He’s making just over a million next year. The whole trade is really Melkey, the two pitchers, and whoever we sign with the rest of the Vasquez money we saved. I just can’t think of who that would be that would even it out.
Also, we’ve got a proud/pissed off Lowe who just realized he’s not even descent trade bait.
Hi, newly minted Washington Nationals fan here, but I have some questions..
First, I’m going to pray for Furcal Rule on this. Please, no, no, no.
We should’ve just re-signed LaRoche for 1B and gone into the season if this is the rabies ridden rabbit that Wren is pulling from his ass, to mix metaphors.
Why don’t GMs show some freakin’ sack and have faith in their teams? The Braves could’ve had a dominant pitching staff along with a good offense (after jettisoning Frenchy and acquiring McLouth and LaRoche the offense was, what, top 4 in the NL?). That wins a lot of games, builds enthusiasm and.. wait for it.. CREATES REVENUE!!! Po$t$ea$on!!
And if you still must trade someone, do it in-season so you only pay part of the contract. We really couldn’t have done that? Really?!!
Stu @29, do you have any defensive stats on Melky?
There’s not a single free-agent first baseman available who would make this deal worthwhile. We are either trading for Cabrera, or we have a completely incompetent front office.
Just looking at FanGraphs’ UZR/150. Someone with access to BJOL might tell us about their respective +/-.
And if this only results in our signing Laroche, then I’m cancelling Christmas.
Disappointing, for sure.
I watch Melky play a lot and he’s a useful guy on a team with a lotta other power, but hard to see him as a major contributor anywhere else.
I always got into arguments about him with Yankee fans: I thought he was a good 4th outfielder & not much more, although the new Yankee Stadium was the best thing that ever happened to him.
Melky’s upsides: Can play 3 OF positions pretty well, has a good arm (led the AL in OF assists a couple years ago), has some speed, doesn’t strike out much, can switch hit (he’s better as a lefty).
Melky’s major downside: Lack of power.
Otherwise, he’s really mediocre. Not Andruw Jones range-wise, but, y’know, alright.
He’s not an awful ballplayer, just nothing special, certainly not someone you’d want for your best starter. He’s a switch-hitting Nate McLouth with less power.
Hope we’re not done “bolstering our lineup.”
This is the real price of signing Lowe for an outrageous sum of money….We can’t get rid of him and we will still be with us!
And I thought that the Soriano deal was bad….
If this isn’t the first move in a series to bring in a masher than this is about as bad as it gets. Trade our ace for a fourth outfielder
Read that DOB says that the FO had exhausted all the possibilities of moving Lowe without having to eat all his salary. Knowing that, I understand moving Vazquez but there had to have been more interest in him than just as a straight dump.
I have been bullish on Wren for the past year, but I am now off that wagon. Screw this, and screw him. I agree with Stu: there is simply no 1B worth this. They would have to give up a Jurrjens+ to get a Fielder or Gonzalez or Cabrera, so there’s obviously no way one of those guys is coming. This is a staggeringly stupid deal, whether you’re stat-minded or not. I cannot come up with a single justification for this, unless management suddenly cut payroll without warning. We now have the second-best pitching staff in the division, and a middling offense. WTF?
Does anyone else have a sense of what are available to spend money looks like? We save about 8.5 on the Vasquez deal, but is there more floating around. If we can bring on one salary after this to bring us up to budget, how much money can we take on? I haven’t been following the money moving around well enough.
Finally, Post #14 gives us the first post-Vazquez use of everyone’s favorite hot stove cliche, “we got fleeced.”
I still cannot believe this is really happening! I had a lot of faith in Wren, really I think he did very well so far, but now…?? We’re doomed! What an idiot!!
Wow, when will Wren’s Sophomoric phase end?
I don’t care if we get Pujols with the extra money from this deal (well actually I do), there is no way anyone can say this is a good trade with a straight face. It looks like Wren panicked again.
I hope we spend the extra money wisely, but this is ridiculous. I could understand it a little more if Vazquez was being overpaid, but he’s a bargain based on the current market.
Could this be that they really just wanted that A-ball pitcher? Maybe add some depth for the future and save some money this year to add the bat we need? I’m not justifying it, just asking if that could be a possibility.
Here’s my take now that I’ve calmed down from the Hulk-rage that the trade hurled me into: The Lowe market just wasn’t there, at least not any team that was willing to take the Braves off the hook for his entire salary. Move on to Vazquez. At this point it appears that cash was most important to Wren (cash that will hopefully be used to aquire a big bat). If he traded Vazquez for a player of equal ‘value’ it would most likey be the case that said player would have a pretty good size salary, thus the net cash from the trade (Vazquez salary – Acquired player’s salary) would leave enough to pay the mythical ‘big bat’. So that leaves you with one option – trade Vazquez for a player (or players) that require very little salary commitment. You could just trade him for a bag of prospects, but that does nothing for your team in 2010. So you then go looking for a major league player (in the braves case the only vacant positions are 1st base and outfield) who commands a low salary.
Put that all together and Wren had to find a situation where all the following applied:
A trade partner seeking a starter, with the $11 mil to pay Vazquez, AND a cheap, major league outfielder or firstbaseman (this may have actually been narrowed down to OFs who can play a solid centerfield) who the team can part with.
When you add all that up, Wren might not have really had as many options as we would like to believe. Again, this trade makes no sense in a vacuum and still has me a bit angry, but if it is viewed as a calculated and necessary step toward getting the braves that elusive creatue known as the Middle-of-the-Lineup Hitter (LAtin: Sluggis Maximus) then chances are we will feel much better about this trade next summer.
And I’d still try to trade Lowe – let Medlen step in and be our #5.
this frees up about 9-10M
possibly for Nady or Laroche I assume..
Joshua at 44,
I’m sure that this is what they will tell us, but of course that’s bullshit. You don’t trade your ace for an A-baller, no matter how good he is. 9 out of 10 never make it anyway.
@33, Sorry, all of Melky’s stats are offensive.
If you can’t do better than this, then you go into the season with six starters. This sucks.
according to dob, we didnt even get the young, stud pitcher, but a shortstop prospect. joel sherman tweeted that the deal is done. melky better be getting flipped. what a horrible day to be a braves fan. our lineup and pitching staff just got a lot worse.
so, our starting rotation is now:
This trade makes me sick to my stomach. Any confidence I had in Frank Wren has eroded in one month.
What this means is that the Yankees get Vazquez for free. They don’t give a shit about the money, and for them Melky was a spare part at best. Congratulations!
@ajcbraves: This is obviously not the power hitter that Braves fans had envisioned. Melky Cabrera? Really? Yes, really
You guys got your panties all in a bunch, wait til Javy gets back to NY and we see his HR numbers go through the roof in that stadium. Come on, Javy has a career year in the NL and all of a sudden he’s this high demand on a contract year pitcher who will get us a power bat???? Gimme a break, no one is going to like this because Javy pitched well last year. The market for Lowe was nonexistent, so Wren had to move Javy and picked up a serviceable OF whose good in the clubhouse and minor league prospects. They weren’t going to be able to re-sign JAvy next year anyway since they can’t unload Lowe
I just woke up………
You don’t make that f__king trade without getting Nick Swisher.
There is no big bat coming from this, unless it’s Bay, and that will just make it worse. This franchise is f’ed for 2010. Thanks Frank. This was positively Daytonian in structure.
BP says Vizcaino is #2 prospect in Yankees system for what that’s worth.
I’d also like to point out that Wren wisely got an Arodys back for a Boone, keeping us holding steady in the fun first name stable. I think we all would have been even more disappointed if Boone left and all we got we’re some Dans and Rons. So there is an upside!
Also, I’m reading now that the salary relief from Vasquez shakes out to about 9.5 a year.
My biggest issue is that outside of the 2 MM saved, I don’t really see a difference between Melky and Ryan Church.
In reality, as Vazquez is only under contract one year, it isn’t a complete ballbreaker, but it definitely makes me wonder what the price would’ve been last year for the White Sox to trade both Vazquez and Swisher…
Jon, even you don’t buy that.
Nice post. Summed it up well. I love how everyone in here is some arm chair GM that thinks they have all the answers
so if we do go get Laroche and Nady, does that basically make us throw Heyward in the minors next season?
OF’rs – Diaz/Melky/Nate/Nady
It’s nice that Vizcaino is the #2 prospect in the Yankee’s system, but apparently he’s not in the deal. It’s being reported that we’re getting a minor league shortstop.
Talk about Crap-tastic…
There must be a pony in here somewhere…
The point is that there was NO way whatsover this team could go into the season with all 6 starters. Wren backed himself into a corner and had no leverage in any trade. Seeing the money they saved, the players they gained, clearly it may not have “improved” the team but with the situation they were in I doubt they had any other choice. You can bet that your going to see 1 or 2 signings within the next 2 weeks though
with the yankees sending money to us (500k), add in melky’s 3 mil and subtract vazquez’s 11.5, that gives us a grand total of 78 million, leaving about 18 million dollars to get something of value.
@ Mac’s 50
I agree whole heartedly. I think people are forgetting how much Hanson’s workload jumped from 08 to 09. There is honestly no way to know exactly what you are going to get out of him.
Note: I personally Hanson is a stud and will make us forget about Vasquez.
With the above said, Vasquez has had an incredibly inconsistent career. (the word ‘headcase’ has been thrown around) That rap has had to hurt his value a little.
This is not the first time Milky’s name has come up in relation to the braves wanting him. Wren has coveted this guy. Alot Yankees fans hate this trade to.
Milky will probably be in one of the corner spots in the OF, which probably suits him better. Maybe this is one that will work out for both sides.
would you rather see them try to sign Bay/Holliday and go inhouse for 1B? Or use the 18 to sign both another OF and 1B
So, maybe Wren thinks Vazquez’s 2009 is a fluke, Lowe will rebound, and he can now get Miguel/Bay…?
Bleh. Give us something to hope for, Wren.
“Alot Yankees fans hate this trade to.”
Only because they still have a bad taste in their mouths from Vazquez’s first go-round with the team. Once they appreciate what a steal it is, they’ll come around.
You could just trade him for a bag of prospects, but that does nothing for your team in 2010.
And what exactly does Melky “do” for the team in 2010? Besides make lots of outs, that is – .269/.331/.385/.716 88OPS+ with below average defense. Dave Cameron tries to talk Atlanta fans back from the edge, but I think this is still a trainwreck.
If Wren had not signed Lowe to all this money, would we be in this spot? (NO) I got killed on this position on here last year, but Lowe was a waste. 30 mil of the braves payroll is to two 38 year olds (Lowe and Chipper).
THAT IS WHAT IS KILLING THE BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!
Again, why was signing Lowe a good idea?
Also, when is the organization going to realize that there is a need for an elite run producing bat, and when are they going to sign one? Nady and/or LaRoche won’t do the trick.
Also, a lot of Yankees fans are morons.
i dont want bay. bay would cost 15 million and leave nothing left to sign an of, which is OBVIOUSLY going to have melky cabrera’s shitty ass in it. oh, and if you guys dont know, melky is a switch hitter so he’ll play all 162 games no matter what it might cost the team.
the only way wren can redeem himself is if he trade melky for prospects and gets his worthless ass out of a braves uniform.
I don’t understand this one.
Time to chime in after weeks of silence.
Frank Wren is incompetent and that’s all there is to it. Wren had to dump Vazquez because he couldn’t find any takers for the remaining 45 million left on Derek Lowe’s contract.
That said, when Wren called Derek Lowe an ACE type pitcher, he was wrong. When Wren called Nate Mclouth a LEAD OFF type hitter, he was wrong again, and this latest fart blossom of a trade is more fall out from Wren’s inability to correctly gauge the TYPE of players needed.
haha yeah yankee fans are out of their minds. His ERA will be well over 4.50 next year in that stadium.
Cameron is wrong, Melky is not pre-arb. The Braves won’t save 9.5 million because part of that will go towards Melky’s raise. Do we have estimates for what he’ll make?
Apparently the deal does include Vizcaino and not a SS – just a misprint by DOB. There’s still no way to spin this as a positive for the Braves. Oh and we get $500K in the deal – as someone said, this is enough to re-sign Norton.
I don’t get it. I know the front office went into the off season looking to improve the offense, which was terrible in the first half of the season but was actually pretty good at the end of the year. Now you’ve taken away your advantage in pitching, and are now going into the year with a guy still coming off major elbow surgery, a disgruntled veteran who sucked balls last year, and Kawakami who you just don’t quite know what you’ll get from. Granted Hanson and Jurrjens were great last year but they are still young pitchers and you never know what you’ll from young pitchers. Vazquez was the one rock in the rotation. Every time out you knew he was going at least 7 innings and would keep the team in the game. That’s gone now. So is the one advantage they had in the East. Pitching depth.
I thought that if they couldn’t find a taker for Lowe that they would say screw it, there’s nothing out there that will be better than having more pitching than anyone in the divison. Resign Laroche and plug in inexpensive free agent A in right field until the brought Heyward up. The team won 86 games basically on the strength of the rotation and an improved offense in the second half of the year. Why would you break that up? Every year since ’06 the Braves have gone into the off season with a “plan” to fix what was wrong with the ballclub, essentially done so, only to create new holes elsewhere. I’m sick of this.
Oh and how elated do Yankee fans feel right now??? They may not particularly like Vazquez from his ’04 performance there, but they were going into the season with Chad Goudain as their 5th starter and now they give up a spare part for the guy who was 4th in the Cy Young. Suddenly the Yanks rotation doesn’t look so bad comapred to Boston’s. Your welcome a-holes.
Javy’s no-trade to the west coast hurt his trade value. And, Dave Cameron thinks that the Braves got more for JV than the Phillies did for Cliff Lee.
Also, there’s this.
Mac, put Wren in the doghouse.
Oh no, Coach is back! Can things get worse?
What Melky ‘does’ for this team is relative to what the Braves other options are. Melky’s defense may be below average, but it is useful to the Braves. Diaz and McLouth aren’t exactly defensive studs. Melky is also a safer offensive option than anything else the Braves have. Sure, there is a chance that Schafer or Heyward wow everyone and win a job out of spring training and manage to stay a step ahead of major league pitchers and produce for a full season without any hiccups… but I wouldn’t bet all your 2010 chips on that happening.
Vazquez will not do well for the yankees. He is a national league pitcher. His era will shoot up to 4.50 minimum.
Having said that, it’s still a very disappointing deal. Vazquez was a valuable Brave. He was worth more to the Braves than they got for him.
Obviously this deal is about money and the fact that the Braves couldn’t deal Lowe and his horrible contract. I think the baseball economy is very soft, much like the national economy. The lack of movement and big money free agant signings this offseason suggest that there are a lot of teams that are financially fearful.
@82 – when an article concludes with “This is not the best deal they could have made. But it’s not the worst”, I generally don’t construe it as a ringing endorsement.
Time to break out the Troglodytes troglodytes delenda est banner?
on a brighter note, if we were to pursue bay, we could probably sign troy glaus as well to play 1b if there’s a way to trade cabrera.
bay: 4/60 million
glaus: 1/5 million
i need to wait a few more days before i really start laying in to wren. maybe this is a precursor!
then sign bay (which, could actually happen, i mean the payroll would only be at 95-96 million).
please redeem yourself wren…confidence slipping.
Even if Vazquez fails in New York, this is still a bad deal for the Braves.
What Melky â€˜doesâ€™ for this team is relative to what the Braves other options are. Melkyâ€™s defense may be below average, but it is useful to the Braves.
There are a LOT of major leaguers that this applies to, (and probably some freely available AAAA talent as well) most of whom would not require Vazquez in trade. That’s really not much of a defense of this trade. At least if it had been prospects only, one could use the cost savings towards acquiring FA’s who aren’t bums. Now the roster spot is filled by a lightweight hitter who is about average at best defensively by Cameron’s own measurements.
I agree with the premise. Can’t really judge the deal till we determine what Wren will do with the extra $
At least Cabrera is a switch hitter.
at least vienna sausages are pork.
It’s really neat that he can suck from both sides of the plate.
If we’ve really put $15 per year or so together to drop on a big bat and we get someone unarguably worth it and effective I’ll be reserved and hopeful. Our pitching just got very question marky in the off-season—could be really good or fall off a cliff—Lowe, Hudson, Kawakami/Rotating 5th Starter could all be terrible this year. Our new closer and set-up could blow out all four of their arms. Scary.
And thanks ryan for the math on what’s available.
The Yankees finally hyped Melky Cabrera to the point where he was traded for an ACE pitcher.
Can I just go back to sleep and this all goes away?
The one positive form this deal is there is some money freed up. With a likely OF of Diaz/Cabrera in LF, McLouth in CF and Heyward in RF, could a deal for Dunn or Cabrera be in the works for 1B?
@36, so we’re talking Willie Harris, eh.. excellent
..only Melky’s not from Georgia and has no love for the Braves.
I’m now mad that my Washington Nationals GM was not all over that. Willie Harris plus fancy-named A-ball pitcher and scrap prospect for Vazquez would’ve been sweeeeet! Throw in a 25-yr old lefty reliever and twist our arm–we’ll make the deal!
Poor Braves fans. I’m really glad I’m not one (as of 9:30 this morning). It must be depressing and infuriating. And confusing.
@102 – And that A-ball pitcher looks pretty good.
@98 – you left out that Hansen guy. I think he’s okay.
A-ball pitchers… there’s a reason I call them lottery tickets.
Hey, he just blew out his elbow/shoulder!
Hey, he can’t get anyone out at Mississippi!
Hey, he’s actually 26 years old!
Hey, he never added a third pitch and he’s a middle reliever!
Hey, he gives up two home runs a game in the majors!
I don’t like this at all–Melky is mediocre, the deal might have been ok if it had been Swisher instead of Melky, the prospect is nice but he’s in low A ball–but I’ll reserve judgment until I see how Wren spends the savings (presumably a bopper to play 1B). I also take this as confirmation that no one would take Lowe without the Braves picking up a large chunk of his salary (Marquis is roughly comparable and he signed for 7.5m).
I like this trade only if it’s followed with the announcement that the freed money got us Jason Bay.
WTF does Wren think Cabrera fixes? Certainly not the team’s power shortage.
God I hope we don’t find out that Wren actually had the choice of Cabrera and Swisher and took Cabrera.
Agreed, Melky Cabrera doesn’t equate to Vazquez in value but he certainly isn’t Willie Harris.
Here is the skinny on Melky:
25 year old versatile switch hitter, plays all three outfield spots, can lead off, good defensive player with a great arm and won’t be an unrestricted free agent until 2013. Projectable 15-20 HR power with 75-85 RBI provided he gets the requisite 550-600 at bats needed.
Cabrera will get better with age and experience while adding youth, defense and speed to the Braves outfield.
But again, he wasn’t worth Vazquez, not even close…..
Oh no, Coach is back! Can things get worse?
Yeah, Chip Caray re-upping is even worse.
Just read the breaking news report on ESPN. Still trying to confirm that Arodys Vizcaino is even in the deal.
The article suggests that the Braves could spend the money on Johnny Damon. That would be tragichilarious! I mean, has the author even looked at our.. I’m sorry, y’all’s roster? It also mentions Xavier Nady and potentially both of them to the Braves.
What is this? Major League Baseball’s version of The Producers!
The Braves didn’t trade for Melky, they traded for money. It stinks, but this was a way to clear payroll. They got back some value, but what will matter most is what they do with the financial flexibility.
1 year of Vazquez = Melky, LOOGY, Lotto Ticket + Player X (acquired with the extra $)
The equation isn’t balanced as is. The question is, who does Player X have to be to balance it?
plays all three outfield spots
in a below average fashion in CF, without enough pop for the corners.
can lead off
Badly. Career OBP .331
good defensive player with a great arm
Says who? See above.
and wonâ€™t be an unrestricted free agent until 2013.
He’s a super two who is arb eligible (cost you around 3M this year ), and will start to make real dough soon.
Projectable 15-20 HR power with 75-85 RBI provided he gets the requisite 550-600 at bats needed.
Projectable? Aren’t we all.
He’s a 4th OF, and really hurts the roster construction of the team.
Wow! I didn’t see this coming. I have to admit that this literally kicked me in the stomach. After some thought, there might be some bright side. I actually am in the camp that Vasquez’s trade value would never be higher.
However, MELKY CABRERA? Man, you would have thought that Javy would have brought a much better bat than this,and the thought that he’s like Nate Mclouth with less power, isn’t exactly comforting.
This also pretty much bars the door for Jason Heyward to start the season in Atlanta. Something which I’m particularly not happy about.
We still need a power-hitting first-baseman (preferably a right-handed hitter)
We still need to get rid of Lowe. I’d rather have KK and Medlin in the rotation, than this guy.
Gee Whiz, I was going to go finish my Christmas shopping today, now I’ll probably just stay on the internet all day.
Anyway, Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to all my friends on the Braves Journal. And thanks Mac, for having the best blog on the net.
@112 I think that sums it up perfectly. We’re focusing too much on Melky. We have to imagine the trade with a big player to be named later appended to it. We don’t get player X without freeing up the money and it will fall on how good player X is to determine whether the deal was worth it or not.
We have to take a collective breath and then very quickly begin anxiously speculating on who we can now afford to bring in until we lose our shit again.
@112, don’t we get to count 1st round & 1st round supplemental draft picks on the Vazquez side of the ledger??
After the Soriano thing I think it’s pretty clear that you can’t count your draft picks before they’re in hand.
There’s not much in the way of options for Player X right now that will significantly help the team and giving up Vazquez to sign Player X who may not be more than Xavier Nady (haha, Player X) was not a wise move.
Is there an OF/1B guy out there that would be A) close to what we want and B) able to be had by packaging Melky with Medlen?
Spike, Melky Cabrera was part of the 2009 World Champion New York Yankees everyday starting outfield who played in 154 games, mostly in center field.
So , what part of EVERYDAY STARTING OUTFIELDER DIDN’T YOU UNDERSTAND?
Good defender? anybody who can play all three outfield spots has the athleticism to be a good defender, and any scout will tell you that including myself.
But I digress, just watch and learn:
Sorry if this is been covered, but I’m having a busy day at work. My question: Do we know if Vizcaino was included in the deal or not at this point?
Is Bay a possibility? We’ve got between 15-18? Go 5 for 75.
Considering our need for a bat wouldn’t everyone do Vasquez and Boone for Bay, Melky, Dunn, Nady (assume we can sign him to play first) and Lotto Ticket.
Actually, what starting at all three outfield positions means is that they don’t think you’re very good in center.
If you go 5/75 for Bay, you better man up and just sign Holliday.
In Wren’s defense, we really do not know what the innards of the situation were like. I’m sure that he would have pulled the trigger on a D. Lowe trade even if it meant giving up 12 mill over the next three years. I think that this deal really does demonstrate that there was no market for Lowe, or that his suitors wanted the Braves to eat an absurd amount of money (15+). Although publicly it did not seem so, Vazquez may have never wanted to re-sign with the Braves (either way, we don’t know, only the Braves FO does!), and Frank was just trying to get value out of him while trading him to a team that was not in the NL. As it has already been mentioned, it might just be in preparation for an offer to an elite free-agent.
When a trade that looks as lopsided on the surface like this occurs, there has to be something below the surface. Honestly, I’m not happy at all at this deal- woke up, got a call from a friend in Minnesota alerting me to what happened, and just about puked when I saw it on MLBTR. But, Frank is the GM, and it doesn’t seem like he’s going to go anywhere soon- so let’s hope out for the best.
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!!!!!!
As if this deal weren’t bad enough, Coach is back. This is the freaking worst.
@124 I’m for manning up!!
On a side note, Lotto Ticket was born in 1990. When I was 15!!! I liked it better when I’d read about Braves prospects and they were all older than me. It’s comforting to be junior to prospects.
Fangraphs has a nice piece on the deal: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-vazquez-deal/
which is summarized by the MLBTR guys pretty well:
As Dave Cameron of FanGraphs says, the Braves obtain a decent outfielder who’s getting paid less than what he’s worth and a prospect with significant updside (Vizcaino), all while saving $8MM or more (I’m guessing Melky makes $2.5-3MM next season). The Braves dealt from strength and now have the money to lure a free agent bat to Atlanta.
Does this trade even free up enough money for Bay/Holliday?
Its not bad. They have 6 starters, one who has a one year contract and they may not even be able to offer to arbitration to get picks b/c they can’t afford him (and have no place for him) if he accepts. They had ZERO leverage. In return they get 2 years cost control on a league average corner OF bat/ plus corner defender that fills a spot while they wait on Heyward and Schafer, they get 6 years control on a hard throwing LH releiever (albeit one that has trouble finding the plate) and the gem iof the deal is a 19 year-old SP with plus pitches, signed for $800K, ranked #3 in the NYY farm system that costs virtually nothing over the next 5-6 years. They unload $11.5M off their books… oh and pick-up a check for $500K for their troubles.
Sure, they’d have preferred to get rid of Lowe or Kawakami, but they weren’t getting any return on those deals. For that situation, what can you say… you give up something you really didn’t need for exactly what you do right now and a player younger and cheaper than you get on the open market plus significant long-term upside.
And if you look at this in broader perspective we got 1 great year from Vasquez(but not good enough to get us into the play-offs, given how the rest of the roster did), for Tyler Flowers. If we don’t make the Vasquez trade in the 1st place, we have a very viable 1B prospect to step in and play 1B in 2010 (and relieve Brian McCann at catcher as a very good bat, to let McCann rest); we don’t have Melky Cabrera as our 4th OF (who cares?), and we have the payroll relief from not having Vasquez to get another position filled (a regular OF who can hit).
@106 – So you are saying you should not evaluate the talent you get in return to judge the trade – just on Major League talent alone? So based on that logic, we fleeced the Rangers in that deal for Tex. Yeah, it is always a possibility that the guy will not work out, but you can’t say that it was a bad idea to nab him simply b/c we don’t know what is going to happen.
Either way it doesn’t really matter. I hate the deal with this guy involved too. Just saying that it makes the deal a little better.
‘So , what part of EVERYDAY STARTING OUTFIELDER DIDNâ€™T YOU UNDERSTAND?’
Garret Anderson and Jeff Francouer were everyday starting outfielders too. Doesn’t mean shit except the Yankees didn’t have anyone else.
Ok now that I’m only enraged and not homicidal, this is just a straight salary dump. I have no hope that we are in the Bay or Holliday sweepstakes. Not even sure I want us to be. Not that they are bad players but they are going to get Texieria money and neither is nearly as good as the douche bag. If all we were doing was dumping it sure seems like we could have gotten more though.
Good write-up on Hanson just to lighten the mood:
Now offer 6/96 to Holliday or trade for Miggy and we’re set.
@130 I think we are going to have about $18 to spend. There’s obviously a lot of long term calculations to make, when does Chipper come off the books, when do we need to pay McCann, Hansen, etc. I’ve got to assume we can put down $15 for five years or so and use the balance to get another piece here or there. That’s Bay money, maybe. Probably a little under Holliday money, but the market’s terrible for players wanting big contracts so who knows.
Let’s trade McLouth, Freeman and Vizcaino for Miguel Cabrera.
I actually wonder if McLouth is on his way out in another deal and we just wanted to have something in CF (not that Melky is the answer) other than Schafer.
Wait, so everyone cried about losing a draft pick with Soriano, but we’re not thrilled to get a good prospect in this trade? And we dumped salary? And it’s quite possible last year was a fluke for Javy?
I’m not thrilled, but I’m going to wait and see what we do with the cash to pass judgement.
what makes you think melky can lead off? his .330 opb? his minute stolen bases? or is it just the fact that he doesnt have power so he can hit leadoff? and where is this “projectablity” you are talking about? he had 13 hrs this year in a freaking little league park. i “project” melky to have 8 home runs this year. you use your measurement of “projectability” and i’ll use mine and we’ll see who comes closer. btw, you’re “know it all” ridiculous attitude was much better served torturing other people aside from braves bloggers. go away.
trading lowe would have been trading for money. trading one of the top 3 pitchers in the national league last year is not trading money. we got hosed.
oh, and by the way, i’m not so sure we even have the best pitching rotation in our division anymore.
halladay, hamels, blanton, happ,?> huddy, jj, lowe, hanson, kk
oh man does this suck. the fangraphs guy has no point. yes, melky might be “worth” more than his 3 million, however vazquez was worth 30 MILLION DOLLARS LAST YEAR AND IS PROJECTED TO BE WORTH 25 THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!! we lost in every aspect of this deal.
Tell it, Bethany.
Good post. Some people on here just need to settle down. They have the money they needed freed up so lets see if they pull off a trade or make an offer to either Bay or Holliday
Lots of sky is falling sentiment on the blog today. I agree in a vacuum this is a crap deal, but some need to stop looking at this as Vazquez for Melky.
Wren needed to shed salary, so he needed a team with space to add $12 million this year. He couldn’t trade Lowe, and I don’t think you can go into the season with 6 starters and use your remaining $7 million to try and fill 1B and LF. That’s not an option.
I didn’t want to see Javy go but there was a pretty good chance he wasn’t going to have another year as good as this past one. I feel like we were watching him pitch the best he could pitch. Conversely I think we saw Lowe at his worst. Obviously we traded the better pitcher, but I don’t think the gap is as wide as it seemed last year. The money owed to Lowe is the real killer.
So we got the best prospect we could. If the money saved gets spread out over Damon and Nady, then yes, this is a shite deal in every single way. But if somehow this is a precursor to a real hitter, then I can’t kill Wren.
Last week I attended a season ticket holder luncheon attended by Frank Wren. After eating and a brief sales pitch, we were given the opportunity to ask Frank questions. It was a pretty cool deal. One of his answers may have given some insight (even if I didn’t realize it at the time) to a possible Javy deal. When discussing the necessity to deal one of the pitchers, he emphasized how much he liked the guarantee of Derek Lowe. He talked up his consistency. He then characterized Javy’s career as a bit of a roller coaster, riddled with peaks and valleys. With him, you roll the dice and hope you get the good Javy. I got the vibe that he wasn’t willing to wager his paycheck on Javy repeating his ’09 season. It wasn’t enough to make me believe that he was going to be the odd-man out but I do think that Frank was starting to realize that trading him was inevitable. He had moved on to justification.
Who knows. I just wish this didn’t look like a salary dump. The attendance is already low enough without the appearance that we’re a feeder system for big boy teams.
*The above are not direct quotes from Frank. Just want to make sure that was clear.
He also mentioned that they’ve always wanted to sign JJ to a long-term deal. Two words have stood in the way of that actually happening: Scott Boras.
Here’s a yankee fan’s perspective… mind you a lot of yank fans are furious at this deal. As much as we can get on Wren, I think Cashamn looks like a fool in this deal
“So basically, we traded a coming into his prime Melky Cabrera for a horrible Randy Johnson and gave up four years of Vasquez’s prime”
at least they’re rid of Boone Logan :/
Only some Yankee fans are upset with this deal. They like Melky, mainly because he was home-grown & got some big hits last year, but they know they got a better player in return. So does Cashman.
Also, the Yankees just opened up LF & they solved themselves some Hughes/Joba rotation drama.
How many outfielders can we have on the roster? Don’t see Holliday or Bay unless we make another trade, and I don’t want to see another trade for a while. Unless it’s Lowe, for anything.
Though I should note, Melky is not the kind of guy you can’t “sign over”, but he’s making too much to be a bench player IMO.
None of the FA 1B options are going to cut it now. Laroche is best of the bunch, but I could see him coming back to earth and throwing up some average years. I think we need impact to compete in 2010.
If Lowe shows any turnaround, we have to deal him. The next two offseasons of the painful and convoluted moves we’ll make so Wren doesn’t have to admit defeat on that deal could break the team again.
Folks… Javy is a flash in the pan. Who in their right minds even thought for a second he was going to pitch like he did? There’s no guarentee at all Javy comes back with ATL next year and puts up anywhere near those numbers. I guess with all of you it’s what have you done for me lately. Indications point to that next year Lowe’s numbers will improve while Javy’s will drop. There is no doubt in my mind Lowe’s era will be under 4 next year, mark my words.
Just got Braves e-mail:
In my view, Jon K, this trade was about four things: eating chicken wings, listening to metallica, drinking Keystone Light, and wanting to get into the stadium to scream as loud as you can.
Sooo….Vizcaino, is he in or is he out?
I only ask because the more I look around, the more confused I get. ESPN doesn’t have him listed in the deal, reuters does, DOB said no, DOB has since said yes? What’s going on here?
I’m not sure it’s a good idea to count on Heyward this year. And I mean count on as in pencil him into a spot and assume we have him all year being productive. He probably needs another year in the minors, so our outfield isn’t really stacked. A Bay/Holliday, McLouth, Diaz-Melky platoon with Heyward getting to tear it up in triple AAA would put me more at ease.
I’d take Nady for the right price at first and then in my fantasy world where all Braves prospects become all-stars in 2010 Heyward can ease out Diaz-Melky and Schaffer can replace McLouth and Freeman can take over at first and the Braves win the next five world series in a row and my hair grows back!
Braves and Yankees make five-player trade | braves.com: Official Info.
Yes, Vizcaino is in the deal. All players named Vizcaino are ultimately disappointing.
As a Rangers fan, it sure looks like Atlanta just got taken to the cleaners. Surely the Rangers would have given a better package than that! Plus, we love trading with you guys 🙂 Makes me sick to see the Yanks just trying to buy another pennant. Here’s hoping they fail big time next year!
it may take the pressure of off rushing Heyward to the majors, so that is a positive.
Oh you mean being a passionate fan? Ahh something most of you GA born ATL fans are not. I’m a braves fan from up north but I gotta say, its pretty disgusting how you all support that team down there with the pathetic attendance year in and year out. For the most part, ATL is seen as one of (if not) the worst sports cities (with 4 major sports teams). And it’s not because of the teams performances, it’s because the fans in and around ATL just flat out don’t support the teams. So Stu, save me the agony of telling you flat out that your probably not a model fan.
I was at lunch with my family and in-laws when my father-in-law reads of the tv behind me that the Braves made a deal with the Yankees. Makes sense to me — they could take on Lowe’s contract. Then he says something about Vazquez and I was surprised… I turned around and saw that it was for Melky Cabrera and was just stunned. There had to be something else to the deal, right?
I used to be very optimistic about next year. I hope Wren has a good plan, because it doesn’t quite make sense yet.
Why surrender in December?
Hurry, Mr. Blanc. Please buy this team!
I was furious like everyone else when I read about this. But reading through these comments was like therapy and I’m almost at the acceptance phase.
There’s still a gaping hole at 1B so I can’t help but think that we have a Miggy Cabrera/A Gonzalez type deal coming VERY soon.
Much calmer now. Ok Frank a salary dump. No one dumb enough to take Lowe’s contract. I get it. Hopefully though you can do better than Melky, starting outfielder, Cabrera.
Fearless prediction. We’ll get 2 count em two old, coming off injury or both players not just one. Yay!
So I wake up, open this website, see the tagline of Melkylicious, and am thinking ‘No way, we got rid of Lowe for something semi-useful?’ And then I see they traded Vazquez, and my heart sank. This is not a cool trade, man.
Everything I’m reading says even with the salary dump, we’re still out on Bay or Holliday. Apparently, dumping Vazquez is just enough to maybe bring back LaRoche and sign Nady and/or DeRosa.
Is that anywhere near enough offense to compete with Philly?
@153 I would like to see Heyward play for Bobby this year, maximum production or not.
Timing may be another issue that forced this deal. All along I’ve been thinking, “even if we do trade Lowe to free up money, it may take too long for the money to be useful.” If Wren does have a trade or signing on the horizon, he may have needed to free up the money sooner rather than later, and that’s easier with Vazquez.
Shawn with the 2009 version of Javy pitching yeah. With the 2009 version of Lowe pitching no.
Was I the only one who was amused by the email the Braves sent out entitled ‘Braves acquire Cabrera and Dunn.’ I wonder how many people clicked on that expecting Miguel and Adam. They should have just put ‘Braves acquire Arod(ys) from Yankees.’
The point nearly everybody seems to forget is Vazquez could (and by all accounts would have) veto a trade out west. So there goes the Angels (or even the Dodgers) who perhaps would have been able to put a better offer. Wren’s hands were tied.
Jay, good point. He had to blink first. Couldn’t make offers then hope that Lowe could be dumped.
All in all I am understanding this more and more. But there is still a bad taste when you say we just traded Javy Vazquez for Melky Cabrera.
@166… you’re on to something, Jay.
Or it is a case of classic Wren-panicking again.
John Smoltz never did this or this.
I just can’t stand all the bullshit coming from the official site! We “netted” prospects. GREAT. We got an outfielder with “a championship to his belt”. GREAT. We got a hard-throwing pitching prospect. GREAT.
But we LOST OUR ACE, IDIOTS!!!!! I don’t believe for one second that this is all we could have gotten for Vazquez. Also, I don’t believe for one second that there were no takers for Lowe. This deal doesn’t free more than, say, $8mil, and nobody is going to tell me that there are no takers out there for Lowe at $8mil!! F***k Cabrera, he’s an out machine and we don’t need him.
That’s funny. Well done. This: Braves acquire Arod(ys) from Yankees, especially.
Mac, join the dark side. It’s more fun.
You are correct, Melky Cabrera was a seventh and eighth hole hitter in the Yankees line up. But just you wait and see, Cox will try to bat the dude in the lead off hole, and then we can all share a good laugh at the ineptness of our soon to be retired Hall of Fame manager.
As it is, the Phillies trade Cliff Lee and three prospects for Roy Halliday an three prospects.
Our Braves dump Vazquez for Melky Cabrera and two prospects which pretty much sums it up, don’t you think?
The one good thing about the trade was that we got rid of Boone Logan–whom Wren insisted that we acquire with Javy last year…..
Let me say first that I hate this deal. Seems if Vazquez was the one to move someone would’ve given up better than what we got for him even with the West Veto he had.
But think about what a difference a year makes. I was higher on Vazquez to start 2009 than Lowe but not by a ton and many would’ve had Lowe higher. I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility for Lowe to be the better pitcher 2010 especially wity Javy in NY.
All that said, the important thing will be what the $ gets spent on, assuming our budget is what it was last year and Wren has said it is.
In defense of the crappy support that Atlanta sports teams often recieve, the city is built in a way that discourages high attendance.
Take for example the 12 game win streak (or whatever it was 15 of 17 I think) that got the Braves within 2 games of the Rockies in the last week of the year. Now most cities would be pretty pumped about their team making such a run. However, in Atlanta the attention of most sports fans in the city had already turned to college football as the Braves appeared to be out of it. What’s more, the majority of people who live here are transplants from other cities. Not many people are 3rd or 4th generation fans like you see in Chicago or Boston. The level of passion for the team just isn’t quite there because there’s no tradition in it.
Next take the geography of Atlanta itself. Most people who follow baseball do not live in the inner city and have to travel quite a ways to get to Turner Field. Turner Field itself is in a crappy part of town where there is no direct MARTA line, and the traffic getting there is generally terrible and often times unbearable. Say you work in Alpharetta and want to go to the game on a Tuesday. If you left work at 5, there’s a chance you make it to the game by 6:30. It’s quite the hassle to do and it makes the casual fan non commital about wanting to go to even important games like those down the stretch this year.
This isn’t saying that Atlanta is actually a good sports town (it’s not) it’s just not as bad as it gets a wrap for because the city is so big and spread out it just takes a lot of effort to make it to a single game.
Excellent post. I went to a game at Turner last July or August and noticed the same thing.
From Keith Law:
The key player in this trade for Atlanta is Arodys Vizcaino, who becomes one of the top five prospects in the Braves’ system and gives them a trio of potential No. 1 or No. 2 starters in the low minors with Julio Teheran and Randall Delgado. Vizcaino, who pitched at short-season Staten Island this past season, has a live fastball that sits 91-93 mph and touches a little higher. He throws a curveball that flashes plus and should miss bats at the big league level when he reaches it. He already has good feel for pitching and just needs experience and a little cleanup in his delivery, as he often finds his arm slot drifting down, at which point he starts to sling the ball instead of just throwing it.
The Braves also get a few years of control of Melky Cabrera, a capable fourth outfielder who can play an average center field and has a plus arm. I don’t think Cabrera has the offensive skills to play every day in a corner-outfield spot, particularly because of his willingness to expand the zone and chase pitches that most hitters wouldn’t consider. Atlanta could use him as a platoonmate for Matt Diaz, a right-handed hitter who has a 200-point career platoon split, or as a backup at all three outfield spots, playing him behind Diaz, Nate McLouth and — assuming he makes the club — Jason Heyward, the top prospect in baseball.
It’s a salary dump, and one in which Atlanta is lucky to get a young pitcher as good as Vizcaino, who is among the top 100 prospects in the game.
initial shock has worn off. I believe I was more pissed about having to keep Lowe than actually receiving Melky back for Vasquez. If this gives us enough money to go get a big bat, then ok. Im waiting to see how the funds are now used to improve the offense
I say flip these prospects for Uggla and move Prado to 1B
@169 – I thought the same thing. I saw the headline that said Braves acquire Cabrera & Dunn for Vazquez, and I immediately though Adam Dunn & Miguel Cabrera, and thought “Frank Wren must be a genius, how did he get both guys for Vazquez”. Should have known better…
@182 – as awesome as it is to think about another “Smoltz” type acquisition, losing Vazquez and not getting more 2010-ready value hurts what most people thought would be a season for contending next year.
I really wish they had money or ability to make a trade to acquire a big, difference-maker of a bat. Oh well
Fuck this. I’m so glad this is a World Cup year so I’ll have something to distract me from the debacle that Braves baseball is becoming. First Chip, now this? It’s wonderful to be just another farm club for the Yankees.
Uggla and Prado on the same IF could make for some ugly defense. Especially bad idea with groundballers Lowe and Hudson in the rotation.
We don’t want to go near Uggla. He was worse offensively and defensively than Prado and will cost $7 million. Giving away the one good thing from this deal would be criminal.
At least Rome’s rotation will be good, though, eh?
We can’t really get rid of Lowe now though, can we? His deal will look even more ridiculous next winter against Beckett, Webb and all the others.
DOB is trying to talk people off the cliff:
Why is a “salary dump” ok?
This isn’t Pittsburgh or Miami. If we’re going to compete with the Mets and Phillies, we can’t be forced into these Royalesque moves and I resent having sunshine pumped up my derrierre about it from the Braves FO.
Help us, Furcal Rule. You’re our only hope…
@182, gee, I guess we’re lucky to lick the boot then? Massa give us an A-ball pitcher! Lemme softshoe.
Don’t worry. Anybody of any real worth will be purchased by the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets and Angels. The Yankees aren’t stopping at ripping us off-hahaha.
Then the secondary worthwhile guys will go to Detroit, Seattle and the Dodgers. Perhaps Texas too. Oh, and Philly!
That will leave us with a Raul Mondesi/Garrett Anderson/Xavier Nady/Johnny Damon/Mark DeRosa-type to spend our shiny $15 mil upon. Yay!
Or we could just stack 15,000 $1000 bills on 1B and play Rockwell’s “Somebody’s Watching Me” over n’ over n’ over n’ over n’ over again on the ballpark speakers.. it would do just about as much for us. (ummm, y’all)
Furcal Rule doesn’t apply anymore after the press release. The only thing that could block the trade now would be a failed physical.
*and congrats on win #2,000
I just don’t get the “thing” about Melky Cabrera. How is he any more special offensively than Matt Diaz?
If Coach is back, I’m outta here. I would rather be locked in a room and forced to listen to Chip Caray than read his crap.
Let’s not assume that Wren is a total moron. There has to be more to this than trading for a fourth outfielder. Keith Law actually seems relatively positive on this because of the prospect the Braves got back.
Cooler head now. Have to think about it.
Initial reaction: WTF! YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!!! A top flight pitcher for what????
Next Reaction: OK I get it! Salary dump! But YOU mean to tell me that Melky effing Cabrera is ALL that you could get!!!!!! Wren you ARE A DUMBASS!
Upon Further reflection: Ok salary dump. Get a 4th outfielder, a cheaper LOOGY, and a top prospect AND you get out of the salary logjam that was preventing you from signing a hitter. OHHHHH Now I get it.
Total Calm reaction: Ok Frank, good job with a weak hand. You converted 3/6 off suite into the potential for a bigger pot later. Now go out and get us a hitter or two.
Lets face it folks as long as our payroll is south of 125 million salary exchanges like these will be the norm for the Braves.
I don’t care a damn about Melky. DOB doesn’t need to quote statistical minutia about what amounts to a throw in for a salary dump. I am now anxious to see what we are REALLY getting with the flexibility afforded by the Vazquez trade.
I wouldn’t care as much about Melky if I didn’t believe Cox will run him out there for 162.
@ 190 – This may be mincing words, but I think you may view “salary dump” differently than it’s being used. Maybe we should be saying “clearing payroll.” The Braves aren’t just pocketing the money they saved by dealing Javy, they are (we hope, at least) saving money to use in other ways.
@ 196 – “Page down” is your friend.
At least Romeâ€™s rotation will be good, though, eh?
Hope so. Speaking of the Rome Braves, their 2009 offensive powerhouse Chais Fuller (and his mid .100s BA most of the season) has been released.
Got a text from a Yankees fan this morning that read “treat him well in the atl.” I assumed we had signed Johnny Damon. I was displeased. I had no idea.
But like RB4 said, reading the comments here was like therapy. It’s been a very calming half hour, especially the return of chicken wings and Keystone Light.
I still don’t like this deal, though. I’d have rather gone into the season with KK in the bullpen and Vazquez starting on Opening Day than Melky leading off in the bottom of the first. We were very lucky to have such a healthy rotation last year. Now we’re one tweaked elbow from the return of Joseph Reyes.
We’re going to have to get some pretty good offense to justify this…
Melky Cabrera is a very Terry Pendleton-type hitter. Maybe TP can help him out (….don’t laugh….).
That’s not beyond the realm of possibility — TP does seem to do best with guys who are similar to him. But my guess is that Melky is a one-and-out, that he’ll put up his usual .330 OBP with medium power and get nontendered after the season.
@182, re: 192, not intended to be a slap at Hiawatha Terrell Wade at all, by the way. In fact, I appreciate the posting–it’s interesting to see Law’s viewpoint.
I respect Keith Law as a prospect guy. However, if Arodys makes the Majors in 3-4 years along with Teheran and Delgado and even if they all navigate the minors well and even if they are good in Atlanta (finally), that’s all well and good, but Chipper and BMac will be long gone, likely Escobar too. We’ll just have other holes then unless we’re extremely fortunate. And how long until they’re as good as Vazquez-Jurrjens-Hanson (nevermind Hudson-Lowe-Kawakami too)?
There was an opportunity in place to compete NOW in 2010, but it was just given away for Willie Harris* and a shot at a good pitcher in the next decade.
*Not to disparage Willie Harris. I love the guy, but he won’t be confused with a hot MLB property. I’d still take him on my team (in fact, as of this morning, I do. Go Nats!).
Joe Posnanski Â» Blog Archive Â» Depressing Yankee Story of the Day.
Our luck would probably be that Vazquez fails the physical, and then can’t pitch this season.
brave fans: relax,
First off we don’t know if vazquez was a fluke this past season. Nobody was going to take Derek Lowe and his 45 million dollar contract/3years. Even if some1 did take him we would have to pay a lot of it and probably get mid-level prospects.
Yes we did lose our best sp; a durable, strikeout king who was marvalous for us this past year.
What we got: A great defensive outfielder who can play all 3 positions(Do you remember having our backup shortstop in the outfield this year?) A guy who hustles and plays very hard. He’s also a baby(25 yrs old) and has time to grow. Very clutch hitter(won mlb top clutch player of the month in may) a guy who is very cheap and will be with us for at least 3 more years. He also has very good speed and runs the base’s very well. We also got two VERY good prospects in return.
In the end it does suck in a way. Giving up Vazquez who was great for us at the top of our rotation. But given that nobody was going to take Lowe, this trade had to be done.
Joe Pos took the trade harder than we did. Things tend to sting a little bit harder when you’ve just signed Jason Kendall, I guess.
Well, Merry Christmas everybody. I’ve got to head down to the Kwik Pak store for a can of bean dip and some Diet Rite. There’s a kid who works down there who used to routinely hit 35 homers a year for the Sumter High School Gamecocks. He could compete with Mitch Jones for the first base job this year…
One more thing: Vazquez was not likely to turn into a pumpkin this year. He might not pitch well for the Yankees, he might have choked for us in the playoffs, and his ERA might have ballooned up to 3.5. But he was pretty close to a sure bet (barring injury).
Posnansky’s story is funny—the “gaping hole in LF” part, I mean.
When you’re living in YankeeLand, it’s all relative, as in, “Hey, the Yanks haven’t won a World Series in a long time!”
The language does get fairly perverted around here.
I second, well, everyone in here that this is an atrocious deal and I had also come around on Wren until the Soriano and now the Vazquez trades. Soriano was barely defensible, this is not.
And to Mac’s point, doesn’t matter if Javy sucks in Yankee-land again. He was an ace in the NL, and an ace for us. He was our best chance to compete with Philly.
So unless mediocre Melky is packaged for a stud, Frank Wren is a moron.
As for Lowe, giving him away and eating 75% of contract would have been better.
I’m effing disgusted.
What was so bad about the Soriano deal? It wasn’t Wren’s fault that Soriano accepted arb.
So unless mediocre Melky is packaged for a stud, Frank Wren is a moron.
He was packaged with a cost-controlled left-handed reliever and a 19-year-old right-handed pitcher that immediately becomes one of our system’s top-5 prospects. I think that qualifies as stud.
Mike @207. I’m relaxed. The more I think about it this was the first step in what is going to be a long process of improving the team. I didn’t think anyone was going to take Lowe. I wanted to keep JV but you have to give something to get something. I’m not as sanguine about Cabrera as you are so I’m just hoping the something we get is good.
@ajcbraves: Scratch that Bay possibility for Braves. I was just assured that Braves are out of that pursuit.
“By dealing Vazquez, and the $11.5 million he was set to earn in 2010, the Braves probably are in better position to retain Derek Lowe, who has been mentioned repeatedly in possible trade scenarios.”
That sentence made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
Johnny, nice use of the word “sanguine.” Haven’t heard that one in ages.
The Poz thing was funny.
bfedrec beat me to it
My dad sent me a text message about this deal this morning.
I actually liked Frank Wren and most of the moves he’d made so far. I’ve been pretty positive about everything.
But this deal literally made me feel sick. I just don’t understand it at all. I try to talk myself in to being so-so on it… But there is so much to hate.
Melky is a worse baseball player than Jeff Francoeur. Vazquez was our best pitcher, and the only piece we had to trade for a real baseball player. Now he won’t pitch for us, and he won’t bring us a bat.
I just feel sick.
Quote from columnist Mark Bradley:
“Frank Wren = Epic Fail.”
Melky Cabrera most similar batters through Age 24 season:
1. Curt Flood (964)
2. Lee Mazzilli (963)
3. Johnny Damon (961)
4. Les Mann (955)
5. Jose Guillen (954)
6. Junior Felix (954)
7. Roy Howell (953)
8. Jose Cardenal (952)
9. Paul Blair (951)
10. Max West (951)
For the record I don’t think we want Bay butchering LF and eating payroll. He’s good but not long-term, big-money good. Holliday would be nice but also not for that money. One of two things is going to happen.
1.) Wren trades for a real bat (acceptable but unlikely)
2.) Wren spreads his newfound wealth on three “maybe” guys hoping at least two of them are hits (unacceptable and unf likely)
Also please stop with this Vazquez fluke business. It may have been on the high side of what he is capable of, but the guy has been a quality pitcher for a long time. He will regress but the term fluke does not apply.
Lastly Lowe is not a bad pitcher; he’s just not worth the money he’s making. There’s a difference. I still think he starts opening day.
Apologies for the double post but…
Melky is not worse than Francouer for the simple fact that Melky will not play 162. He’s a 4th OF/platoon mate. Also a better fielder than the artist formerly known as Jeffy.
I bet Cox is all hot and bothered at the notion of sending Melky up there to bunt endlessly.
Huddy will start opening day.
This would have been a great trade if it was for Lowe.
I guess best case now is that we trade Melky to the silent third party for a real middle infield prospect and get Bay as a FA.
Come on, Miggy is not realistic.
This is our Christmas gift? WTF?
I think Jurrjens gets the Opening Day nod.
Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Lowe & Kawakami–still better than most in NL.
Now let’s get a couple real bats.
I think it’s
Melky and Mike Dunn for Adam Dunn, cmon Wren
based off numbers its
I agree numbers-wise that’s accurate. And it’s not like it matters who is the “number 1”. I just think Hanson at 5 makes it easier to keep an eye on innings. I think Lowe will start opening day because he’s a vet and because it would be a make-nice move by the organization.
Best chuckle so far:
Braves acquire Cabrera, Dunn and Arod(ys).
At least the Phillies haven’t improved their starting rotation.
Who cares about the order on December 22? It’s still a rotation that’s better than most in our league.
230 might also make me okay with this deal.
For the record, I expect what we do with our cleared payroll to be underwhelming.
Seriously, we traded our ace for Matt Diaz.
Sorry, but the small-mindedness that leads a man to say, “Frank Wren = Epic Fail,” disgusts the hell out of me.
I’m glad idiots like Mark Bradley aren’t in front offices of baseball. In his time as GM, Wren has been one of the most solid managers of personnel in all of baseball.
Only time can judge this trade. Right now, it’s incredibly irresponsible for people to assassinate the man and trash his performance on the job for a single trade.
For one year of Vazquez, whose history on the mound is nothing short of a roller coaster, this deal is FAIR. If it weren’t, do you really think Wren really turned down “better” offers? No, because there were none.
The Braves had to free up salary and trading Derek Lowe was not going to get that done. For a year of a Vazquez, I feel like this trade is a fair swap of talent.
237 — Matt Diaz > Melky Cabrera
Frank Wren = Epic Fail
i know i coming in on this WAY late, but why were the the Braves so desperate to move one of our starters? Yes Lowe was border line awful last season and yes Javi only had 1 year left on his deal but if you don’t get a offer you like it seems that you just hold on to your guys til you get one you do like. Teams are always scrambling to replace pitchers that get hurt at the beginning of the season. Why not wait for when the Yanks or the Sox ( or anybody for that matter) really need someone instead of just dumping your talent for cheep bench players?
WHY CRUEL WORLD? WHY?
Melky and Franny both had .313 wOBA in 2009.
Melky also played in the Yanks little league park.
Gloom and doom.
Mark Bradley is a moron and should not be the basis for anyone’s argument.
Not to say that I like the trade, though if Bradley thinks it’s a bad deal then it’s probably a great deal.
sdp – I do not see how you can judge this a FAIR deal. It is poor at best.
I think third parties like Posnanski can best define trades from an objective perspective. The unbiased view overwhelmingly believes the Braves got fleeced.
yankee fans dont like it and the braves fans dont like it, mark bradley hates it…..it must have been a pretty fair offer
fangraphs and Law both think it was a good deal for Atl
According to DOB we are not after Bay or Holliday.
Was this done to get LaRoche or Nady?
I think Melky will get a lot better once he steals the Silmarils and changes his name to Morgoth.
I’m watching the MLB network hot stove show right now, and lets just say it’s not going well for our Braves.
The Yankees are getting congratulated left and right while the Braves are getting questioned and second guessed.
Brian Cashman was on the phone talking the the guys and so far, Frank Wren is nowhere to be found.
please let’s leave Yankees fans out of this. You can cherry pick a few who hate it, fine, but most are probably fine with it. Meanwhile, every friend of mine who roots for an AL team sent me a Wren-directed-hate-filled text today. Can’t say I blame them, nor can I say I feel any differently. Wren’s explanation that Melky Cabrera is a “perfect fit” is the real-world equivalent of having someone speak to you in baby talk.
Also, if the Braves have dumped one of their six starters, how are they going to land a Miguel Cabrera or Adrian Gonzalez-type 1B? Seriously. The Tigers and Padres, or the Brewers for that matter, would be insane not to demand Jurrjens as the starting point in negotiation, and now that Wren has panicked–again–that can’t happen.