Someone brought up the value of “team chemistry” in the last thread. I’m always reminded of the team’s unifying hatred of the owner in “Major League.”
But that pales in comparison to the real-life hatred the ’72-’74 WC Oakland Athletics had for Charles O. Finley.
I always wanted to thank Charley personally for what he did for us, like advocating the DH and introducing M.C. Hammer.
In some ways, he’s the patron saint of old guys that can’t play the field anymore.
Ah, the late, great Billy Preston. That was one of my favorite radio songs when I was a kid, but I always got the lyrics confused. (I half-thought it was a Midas commercial.)
I know that challenging times often make for great art, but you just don’t get radio-pop songs anymore with lyrics like, “I’m a soldier in the war on poverty.”
Of course, that tune came out the same year as another one that asked, “Does your conscience bother you? Tell the truth…”
From the previous thread…
Anyone who’s ever read “The Bronx Zoo” knows that talent & drive will trump team chemistry every time.
That team had the biggest asshole in the universe playing RF for a manager who was positively flammable. Neither guy was particularly liked by the rest of the team.
But when you have players like of Munson, Nettles, Randolph, Lyle, etc., it’s no surprise how it ended up.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 2:39 pm
By all accounts White/Minor are a step below the first names mentioned
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 2:44 pm
If the Pirates take Sanchez, and Matzek/Wheeler/Tate are gone, I don’t see why we wouldn’t take Crow though.
Hate King
on June 9, 2009 at 2:49 pm
I think Crow wants over slot too, but he has already sat out a year in an Independent league. I doubt he would sign for anything less than what Washington offered last year, and I am sure he wants more than that.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 3:31 pm
But a price tag is a price tag; Crow won’t be cheap.
I think a fair amount of that is posturing. He can ask for whatever he wants – another year in indy ball hurts Crow far worse than the team that picks him, and I don’t think that fact is lost on whoever chooses him.
“Steve (Ohio):
Keith, do you think Miller’s bonus demands are that firm? Do you think he would settle for less if Atlanta took him? Big gamble, I know, but don’t you have to think about taking that risk if the other options are Minor or White?
Keith Law:
He’s pretty firm at $4 million. Personally, I would just take him, offer him a half-million over slot, and tell him to take it or go to school and roll the dice with some idiot college coach throwing him 169 pitches the day after he threw an inning of relief.”
“According to ESPN.com’s Keith Law, the Pirates have come to an agreement with Boston College catcher Tony Sanchez and will draft him when they select fourth tonight.” From MLBTR.
Stu
on June 9, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Well, I’d love to have Crow. He’s clearly above White, Minor, and even Purke, IMO.
Hate King
on June 9, 2009 at 3:39 pm
I hope we get Wheeler but it is looking like Roy Clark will be forced to take White. Miller is my second choice behind Wheeler, but they won’t pay him.
Tiger224
on June 9, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Braves 1-run record is now 11-8…3rd best mark in the NL.
Yeah, it dont matter…but at least it isn’t 0-19.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Latest
1. Nationals: San Diego State righthander Stephen Strasburg.
2. Mariners: North Carolina first baseman Dustin Ackley.
3. Padres: Georgia HS outfielder Donavan Tate.
4. Pirates: Boston College catcher Tony Sanchez.
5. Orioles: California HS righthander Matt Hobgood.
6. Giants: Georgia HS righthander Zack Wheeler.
7. Braves: Vanderbilt lefthander Mike Minor.
8. Reds: North Carolina righhander Alex White.
If we pick Minor over Matzek or Crow, someone will pay.
Saw that Porcello pitch in Detroit a few weeks ago. The kid’s a moose. He looked pretty good, too. Got ahead of people, nice poise. Just one run in 6 IP. (Zumaya tried to blow the win for him, but held on barely.)
Not bad for a 20-year-old…
Parish
on June 9, 2009 at 4:52 pm
I must admit my own conflict of interest regarding Minor, but I would take Matzek, Crow, or even Grant Green ahead of him.
hankonly
on June 9, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Re: chemistry
• A talented team can transcend bad chemistry, but an average team cannot. One of Cox’s strengths over the years was mother-henning a team that was greater than the sum of the parts.
In other words, of course Reggie’s A’s and Yanks didn’t need group hugs, they were twice as good as anybody in the American League.
• Fin de cycle issues are unavoidable. Cox, Glavine, Smoltz, Leo and even Schuerholz are understandably holding on to yesterday. Wren (who better have one hand on his nuts right about now) is asserting his control and the old guys ain’t happy. (Although Chipper seems downright serene right now.)
• “We’re on a roll!” – Baghdad Bobby.
Question: whom do you wish to see manage the Braves next year?
Preston supposedly made a pass at a bass player I know. Not sure that’s the way God planned it …
Also, Finley’s various activities tended to bring the A’s together, just as Steinbrenner’s various activities tended to bring the Yankees together. The Yankees, in particular, weren’t actually that antagonistic towards each other, except where Reggie was concerned. And every time Billy Martin got too Billyish, Steinbrenner would fire him and bring in someone low-pressure. It worked very well for about five years.
Tony
on June 9, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Memo to Wren:
Make your mark. If they get upset so be it.
Ethan
on June 9, 2009 at 5:13 pm
RE: Crow
Saw him live multiple times and partied with him a few. Decent guy. Laid back and pretty chill, but knew he was BMOC.
Kind of reminded of me of AJ Burnett, though I only ever saw the fastball top out at 96. Wicked slider. Other pitches were fringe average. Heard a lot about possible injuries though, even whispers at school. FWIW, he was definitely thought of as being a level below Scherzer at Mizzou. Still, ridiciulously good pitcher though
Parish
on June 9, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Green would fit a need and he was expected to be the 2nd or 3rd player taken at one point.
I have trouble believing he has dropped that far.
NickC
on June 9, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Why are the Nats bothering to take 4 minutes?
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Supposedly our pick will determine what everyone else is going to do (duh)
Parish
on June 9, 2009 at 5:18 pm
If it has to be White or Minor, then draft Crow or Purke and go just a little over slot. If they don’t sign we get a compensation pick in a stronger draft.
Stu
on June 9, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Parish,
His powerless bat won’t play anywhere but SS, and there are serious questions about his glove there.
NickC
on June 9, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Everything I’ve read from Roy Clark says that he’ll take the best player and that he thinks the players ranked 11-30 are pretty interchangeable.
I like the idea to take Crow and use the fact that he’s missed one season already as leverage.
What doesn’t get discussed much is that the Yankee players thought that Billy was a booze-sozzled clown, even in the “Bronx Zoo” era.
As much as most of his teammates despised Reggie—and, save Fran Healy, they really did—they also thought that Billy’s treatment of Reggie pointlessly hurt the team.
Batting him 6th, asking him to bunt, pulling him from a game in the middle of an inning—they were all stupid power moves that put Billy’s ego above the club.
drew
on June 9, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Padres took Tate, as predicted. Not really sure he’s suited to Petco, but they’ve got a few years to worry about that yet.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 5:29 pm
PIT’s pick is the one that can do it for us…please take Sanchez!
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Awesome.. Don’t F this up for us Liberty – one of Crow/Wheeler/Matzek is guaranteed now.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Orioles take Hobgood….almost there!
NickC
on June 9, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Jim Callis’ Mike Minor draft is worryingly 5 for 5.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 5:36 pm
eh. The first 4 were no secret.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 5:39 pm
well shit.
NickC
on June 9, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Wheeler so shocked to be drafted by the Giants that he had the cap ready in front of him.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Matzek/Crow/Miller/Purke/Turner/Leake are all better picks than Minor or White IMHO.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 5:43 pm
Aw total crap.
drew
on June 9, 2009 at 5:44 pm
So much for hard-nosing Crow, guess we really are that strapped for cash.
Seat Painter
on June 9, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Welcome Mike Minor!
bleh
Brian J.
on June 9, 2009 at 5:45 pm
“Minor isn’t going to wow you” isn’t something I like to see about a #7 pick.
Stu
on June 9, 2009 at 5:46 pm
This has ownership’s fingerprints all over it.
That said, to quote the fellas of The Lonely Island, “I jizzed right in my pants!”
Dusty
on June 9, 2009 at 5:47 pm
Now I regret pulling against ATL late last season to get a better Draft position. Though, too be fair if we had been a little worse we could’ve had Wheeler. I blame Fr4nc000r for not sucking enough.
NickC
on June 9, 2009 at 5:48 pm
This is where Glavine uses the pick as part of his grievance.
“Listen, they picked Mike Minor over the other guys. They’re obviously strapped for cash! That’s why they had to cut me!”
Dusty
on June 9, 2009 at 5:48 pm
And the $$ situation really is much worse than we thought I suspect.
Ethan
on June 9, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Well, if he’s good enough for Roy Clark, I’m on board.
Besides, whose opinion do you value more: Clark’s or Callis/Law?
Also, I’ve never really seen the team skimp on the draft before. I don’t know why we think they’d start doing it now.
Jorgbacca
on June 9, 2009 at 5:49 pm
So what’s the story on Minor? The only game I followed him in he gave up 6 runs in 4.1 innings and took the loss to a team that’s couldn’t hit much over the season. At the time I had no idea he was even considered for a first round pick. Has he always been that highly thought of or did he turn it on at the end of the season?
NickC
on June 9, 2009 at 5:50 pm
From BP’s live chat
“Kevin Goldstein (3:48:21 PM PT): The Braves take Minor. It’s indefensible. You don’t want to take a high school kid, that’s cool. You think he’s better than Alex White, who I’m not even that high on, and you’re nuts.
Number 7 picks who profile as No. 4 starters make no sense. “
Mike N.
on June 9, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Well thats a boring pick. I was looking at all this stuff at work today and was actually kinda excited watching Wheeler’s scouting video. Oh well, only time will tell.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Cheap motherfuckers. end of story.
Weldon
on June 9, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I don’t know if the pick was indefensible, but I do know that he watches poker on television. That is truly indefensible.
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 6:00 pm
I can’t get too upset about a draft pick. You never know.
drew
on June 9, 2009 at 6:04 pm
I’m sure Matzek will be thrilled to be pitching in Coors.
He reminds me of Mark Redman. I guess that sounds like an insult, but I don’t mean it to be. He just looks like a tall lefty who throws a lot of junk. Maybe his fastball is better than it looks on that video, but he doesn’t seem to be blowing too many people away in that video.
Jorgbacca
on June 9, 2009 at 6:05 pm
I did find where he was SEC freshman of the year after going 9-1 with a 3.09 ERA and 88 strike outs.
What’s interesting is his sophomore year he went 7-3 with a 4.28 ERA struck out 101.
His junior year he went 6-6 with a 3.90 ERA struck out 114.
So his strikeouts went up along with his ERA after his freshman year.
drew
on June 9, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Aaaand the Royals get Crow. *sigh*
Hate King
on June 9, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Mike Minor seems like a bum compared to the other options available.
Meanwhile, there is a baseball game going on, and we’re already losing.
Cary
on June 9, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Mike Minor – definitely has a good chance to be a #4 starter in the Majors. Solid chance.
Go Braves! Way to use that high pick to gather an impact talent. Weak.
Hope this means money will be spent in the international market or at the trade deadline (especially).
(Then the Nats take a college reliever with pick #10. Garbage. Just garbage. Could’ve had the best righty and lefty pitchers in the draft! At least I’ll get to see Strasburg..)
Disappointing draft.
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Escobar is being a douche again.
oldtimer?
on June 9, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Yup, he sure was.
I would hate him if he wasn’t a Brave, I just dislike him since he is one.
Our New Insect Overlords
on June 9, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Feels like a panic pick after the guy they targeted was taken. Speaking euphemistically, the selection is “curious.” I hope he proves me wrong.
Adam R
on June 9, 2009 at 6:35 pm
@78. Seemed to me like Doug Eddings was being a douche again.
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Don’t know how you could panic when this draft order has been pretty well established for 24 hours or so.
sansho1
on June 9, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Hey Stu, Chip just said he didn’t know Vanderbilt had a quality baseball program. And he said it “VAN-derbilt”, all incredulously, as if to say how do they play baseball with those slide rules hanging off their belts. Thought you should know that.
csg
on June 9, 2009 at 6:55 pm
so is it okay to pull for the Mets for the next few games?
“Underinformed” implies that Chip Caray is an occasional source of information.
In other news, Nate McLouth kinda really is a butcher out there.
Ethan
on June 9, 2009 at 7:14 pm
He’s so bad.
Zach
on June 9, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I’m not unhappy with the Minor pick. He knows how to pitch and he’s got a couple of different breaking pitches so he’s not just fastball/changeup. I wouldn’t worry about him turning into a Chuck James.
Chuck James is actually a successful draft pick. We got him in the 20th round, and he won 11 games two years in a row. That’s quite good for a lower-round guy. The problem with Minor is that we picked him with our first pick, 7th overall, with Matzek and Crow still on the board.
Ethan
on June 9, 2009 at 7:25 pm
And Adam Dunn was too bad defensively to pick up
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 7:25 pm
And James would have been higher had he not jumped off a roof and broke his left wrist.
Zach
on June 9, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Oh I know, I’m not comparing them as draft picks. I’m just saying he’s got more potential than your average soft-tossing lefty. Of course that’s still not exactly what you’d like at no. 7 overall.
Dan
on June 9, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Where is Chuck James? The Braves non-tendered him and he just disappeared.
Stu
on June 9, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Thanks for the tip, sansho. Strangely, it doesn’t even make me mad. Just further evidence why that guy shouldn’t have his job.
Goldstein is exaggerating to make a point. Minor, IMO, profiles as a 3 with some 2 upside; still not what you want with the #7 pick, but he does have some promise. And I disagree that White would have been a better pick; they’re similar bets to be successful, IMO, and Mikie is left-handed.
Minor will be a solid pitcher. He’s got a little more velocity than Chuck James or Jeremy Sowers, to whom he’s frequently compared. His best pitch is that changeup, which is truly excellent. His breaking pitch is only OK, but he just recently started throwing it.
He’s a warrior, too. Quiet kid from a tiny town (Chapel Hill, TN) who’s not a vocal leader but will work hard.
In short, from this VU fan’s perspective, he’s closer to Sowers than to Price on the spectrum, but he’s got clearly-better stuff than Sowers and should be a legit middle-of-the-rotation guy.
I’m giddy to have a VU player to cheer for in a Braves uni; just wish Liberty would’ve allowed us to go after someone with ace upside, which Mikie simply doesn’t have at the MLB level.
I’d like to share a story. I got home at about 6:45 EST this evening. I opened up my browser and immediately went to mlb.com. I had heard on the radio that the first 3 were Strasburg, Ackley, and Tate. I was happy to hear that Tate went to the Padres because that moves one of the pitchers down that they could’ve taken. I had previously read that the Pirates will draft Sanchez. So I figured we had a pretty good chance of grabbing a super-high upside arm. Back to 6:45 and mlb.com. I open the draft tracker. I saw that 5 and 6 were Hobgood and Wheeler. I almost peed my pants with excitement when I put 2 and 2 together and realized that Matzek was still available. I thought to myself, “No way we pass on an opportunity THIS great.”. The thought of Matzek in our farm was thrilling to me. Absolutely thrilling. Then all the hype I had built up came crashing down into reality when I hit “f5” (refresh). Mike Minor. So completely unexciting. Just, eh. I don’t care. We had the opportunity to have arguably the best HS arm in the draft. And we settle for Mike Minor because we’re cheap. Sad. Very sad.
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 7:42 pm
101 — Shoulder surgery, out for the season
JoeCraigMcMurtry
on June 9, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Not an exciting pick, and there are obviously better HS arms I wish we’d gambled on but I’m happy we didn’t pick either Crow or Matzek. They interviewed Matzek on MLBTV right after the Rockies picked him. Complete douchebag. Baines asked him if he was bummed about having to give up hitting to pitch for the Rockies and he says, “Well, Oregon has guaranteed me time at 1B too and I’m excited about that.”
Tomas
on June 9, 2009 at 7:44 pm
“Hit to left center” is quickly becoming fearful words.
csg
on June 9, 2009 at 7:49 pm
mets gave Santana a 3run lead and he’s now down 4-3
Ethan
on June 9, 2009 at 7:51 pm
How the hell are we losing to this clown?
SkipLives
on June 9, 2009 at 7:52 pm
@ 107: How?
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 7:53 pm
He meant 4-3.
Anderson sucks.
csg
on June 9, 2009 at 7:55 pm
fixed, sorry bout that
oldtimer?
on June 9, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Thanks for the gift Adam.
Randy
on June 9, 2009 at 7:56 pm
I’d actually rather see Francouer in the line-up than ACHE. As he was strolling down the line on the dp, he must have been thinking, “I think I’ll drive my Bentley tomorrow.”
oldtimer?
on June 9, 2009 at 7:56 pm
I HATE ACHE.
Ethan
on June 9, 2009 at 7:57 pm
ACHE is pathetic
SkipLives
on June 9, 2009 at 7:57 pm
I like Greg (and his permanent ‘stache) but I believe he’s officially lost it.
Adam M
on June 9, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Until the Braves can get two league-average corner outfielders, they ain’t gonna be better than .500, even with solid starting pitching and infield hitting.
Dan
on June 9, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Norton and Anderson aren’t very good.
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 7:59 pm
ACHE is close to single-handedly winning this game for Pittsburgh.
Tomas
on June 9, 2009 at 8:00 pm
Can we have a mulligan on that ACHE signing…
please?
Stu
on June 9, 2009 at 8:04 pm
If somebody can get me an address for Garret Anderson’s home, I will drive to Atlanta and take a dump on his lawn tonight.
I think I hate him worse than I hate Francoeur. At least Stenchy wants to be here.
Mike N.
on June 9, 2009 at 8:06 pm
I just realized the Braves don’t pick again until the third. This draft has been kinda boring…
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 8:10 pm
KJ with the bunt single!
Jeremy
on June 9, 2009 at 8:11 pm
PWHjort,
Funny story. I found out via iPhone as I was waiting in line at Best Buy. I shook my head and let out a very audile “pfft”, which drew a very strange look from the emo douche working the register.
Even if they were sticking to slot, there were better options than Minor. It’s a terrible pick.
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Even Chip doesn’t get why Bobby doesn’t just use Lowe to bunt instead of pinch-bunting.
joelk
on June 9, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Why use a position player to bunt here? Couldn’t Lowe do this?
spike (back in the ATL)
on June 9, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Between the pennywise personnel moves in the offseason and the draft, it’s getting very hard to root for this team. That this organization seriously thought Anderson/Francouer would get it done and proceeded to stick with that this far into the season speaks either to willfulness or cynicism in the FO. Coupled with this draft choice, I just don’t believe they are committed to winning in any meaningful way. That or are they crippled by a lack of vision/creativity/skill. It’s just depressing.
Randy
on June 9, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Nice bunt, great hustle, Blanco. Now go play LF!!
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Yunel!
Gonzalez in to pitch.
SkipLives
on June 9, 2009 at 8:22 pm
That was back-asswards.
Ethan
on June 9, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Annnnd that’s why we put up the bitching and frosted tips
csg
on June 9, 2009 at 8:24 pm
so did Blanco not replace Anderson in LF?
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 8:26 pm
That deflection and call were fortunate.
csg
on June 9, 2009 at 8:28 pm
well Brandon Jones Dh’d today and went 2-4 and is hitting .306, Barbaro who could play 1st or take Norton’s role went 2-4 and is hitting .344
SkipLives
on June 9, 2009 at 8:31 pm
@ 134: Wow.
How can we not use Prado’s groin thing as an excuse to at least give Barbaro a shot?
Weldon
on June 9, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Gonzalez has to love striking out the guy he was traded for.
None of us are privy to the scouting reports that the Braves have so the best thing on draft day (which is usually the case) is to reserve judgement.
That said, I don’t see the reason why you would use the #7 pick on a guy who is probably a #3 starter….
At least I can be happy for Minor and Vandy….
SkipLives
on June 9, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Knee/groin/whatever. I think Joe might’ve mentioned the groin after Prado’s late hit last night.
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 8:35 pm
Prado was going to pinch-hit earlier but was pulled back, so I think he’s available.
Though, Norton does appear pretty useless (small sample size and no playing time notwithstanding).
Tony
on June 9, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Anderson….my gawd.
Randy
on June 9, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Nice at bat ACHE!
Weldon
on June 9, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Prado was apparently complaining of a knee problem before last night’s game. I assumed that his knee, combined with the length of the previous game, forced Bobby to give Norton a glove tonight.
I wouldn’t mind Barbaro. He was sports-human of the year not too long ago, so he can’t be that bad.
If we do call up Barbaro, what would his rooting section be? Barbaro’s Jockeys?
Tony
on June 9, 2009 at 8:39 pm
I know Barbaro is fast, but how can he hit and catch with no hands? Also, I thought they had to put him down?
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Wake up, Andy.
SkipLives
on June 9, 2009 at 8:40 pm
OK, forget the Prado comment I guess.
@144: Barbaro’s Broncos.
Mike N.
on June 9, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Barbaro’s Barbers…
csg
on June 9, 2009 at 8:41 pm
so what is Norton’s use on the team at this point also. They let him hit, but then was replaced defensively by an injured Prado. That cant be good, right?
Tony
on June 9, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Hinske has been on everything….
Mike N.
on June 9, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Is that Chipper’s 40th error this year?
Our New Insect Overlords
on June 9, 2009 at 8:44 pm
I do wish we’d give Norton more time in the OF. It’s understandable that he can’t possibly get any rhythm hitting when he rarely plays. I do think he could be a valuable bat off the bench.
Tony
on June 9, 2009 at 8:45 pm
What was that Team Captain? He didn’t go down at all on that ball…
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Soriano is throwing gas tonight.
Our New Insect Overlords
on June 9, 2009 at 8:46 pm
A little Roger Dorn action there at third.
Randy
on June 9, 2009 at 8:47 pm
BMF!!!!!
Dan
on June 9, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Can we please keep Gonzalez and/or Soriano for 2010?
SkipLives
on June 9, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Soriano’s a stud. Can’t be hit.
Tony
on June 9, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Why isn’t this guy the closer? Didn’t Norton say last year, that he wasn’t interesting in playing the outfield or the field on an everyday basis?
Stephen in the UAE
on June 9, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Soriano!! Nice to win a series and three in a row….
braves14
on June 9, 2009 at 8:52 pm
I don’t think he should play everyday. Just a couple of times a week to take PAs away from ACHE and Stenchy. He’s got a lot more discipline than both of them.
Norton is the PH. Prado is the backup 1B/3B. Checking the splits, Prado/Kotchman make a pretty decent 1B option. The question is what happens in the OF when Infante comes off the DL. You assume that Blanco will be sent down when Kotchman is activated. You also assume Infante will play ahead of Francoeur.
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
On a roll…lets get 3 in a row.
Cox is calling us butter…
Posted on previous thread:
Didn’t see this posted anywhere on here but Norton will start at 1B tonight per DOB.
Also, Karstens still slated to start Wednesday.
@2- cause we’re on a roll
ESPN.com is reporting that the Phillies have put Brad Lidge on the DL with a knee sprain.
Edit: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4245956
No wonder Lidge has been sucking it up recently.
Speaking of talent from the last thread, the Braves need to let Roy Clark do his thing, and then work out a deal whether it is over slot or not.
Rumor is Clark wants to spend the money on Purke and was told no. I have to agree that if Wheeler and Matzek are gone, 7 becomes a pretty tough pick
Is the talent drop-off that massive with White?
Someone brought up the value of “team chemistry” in the last thread. I’m always reminded of the team’s unifying hatred of the owner in “Major League.”
But that pales in comparison to the real-life hatred the ’72-’74 WC Oakland Athletics had for Charles O. Finley.
I always wanted to thank Charley personally for what he did for us, like advocating the DH and introducing M.C. Hammer.
In some ways, he’s the patron saint of old guys that can’t play the field anymore.
Ah, the late, great Billy Preston. That was one of my favorite radio songs when I was a kid, but I always got the lyrics confused. (I half-thought it was a Midas commercial.)
I know that challenging times often make for great art, but you just don’t get radio-pop songs anymore with lyrics like, “I’m a soldier in the war on poverty.”
Of course, that tune came out the same year as another one that asked, “Does your conscience bother you? Tell the truth…”
From the previous thread…
Anyone who’s ever read “The Bronx Zoo” knows that talent & drive will trump team chemistry every time.
That team had the biggest asshole in the universe playing RF for a manager who was positively flammable. Neither guy was particularly liked by the rest of the team.
But when you have players like of Munson, Nettles, Randolph, Lyle, etc., it’s no surprise how it ended up.
By all accounts White/Minor are a step below the first names mentioned
If the Pirates take Sanchez, and Matzek/Wheeler/Tate are gone, I don’t see why we wouldn’t take Crow though.
I think Crow wants over slot too, but he has already sat out a year in an Independent league. I doubt he would sign for anything less than what Washington offered last year, and I am sure he wants more than that.
Mac, any chance of a Javy Lopez Keltner list?
12—Same reason we apparently can’t take Purke?
I really don’t think Crow wants to spend another year on the bus. He’ll sign.
edit – and if not, we get the pick back next year. Suits me.
Stu – Purke is a HS. He may well go to college. Crow doesn’t have that option.
AAR,
I once had a great Posada-vs-Javy debate. Over time, it seems I’ve lost that one.
I’m well aware of their respective leverage situations. But a price tag is a price tag; Crow won’t be cheap.
As I’ve said before, though, I like the idea of hardballing an expensive guy and settling for next year’s No. 8.
I would feel so conflicted if we took Mikie. I love him, but he’s not one of the 7 best pro prospects in this draft.
Frenchy out per DOB
Francoeur’s OUT of the lineup
1. McLouth
2. Escobar
3. Chipper
4. McCann
5. Anderson
6. Norton, 1B
7. Diaz, RF
8. Johnson
9. Lowe
Frenchy SUCKS!
Great move! Now who took his place?
It’s an idea, AAR. Maybe this offseason.
But a price tag is a price tag; Crow won’t be cheap.
I think a fair amount of that is posturing. He can ask for whatever he wants – another year in indy ball hurts Crow far worse than the team that picks him, and I don’t think that fact is lost on whoever chooses him.
“Steve (Ohio):
Keith, do you think Miller’s bonus demands are that firm? Do you think he would settle for less if Atlanta took him? Big gamble, I know, but don’t you have to think about taking that risk if the other options are Minor or White?
Keith Law:
He’s pretty firm at $4 million. Personally, I would just take him, offer him a half-million over slot, and tell him to take it or go to school and roll the dice with some idiot college coach throwing him 169 pitches the day after he threw an inning of relief.”
“According to ESPN.com’s Keith Law, the Pirates have come to an agreement with Boston College catcher Tony Sanchez and will draft him when they select fourth tonight.” From MLBTR.
Well, I’d love to have Crow. He’s clearly above White, Minor, and even Purke, IMO.
I hope we get Wheeler but it is looking like Roy Clark will be forced to take White. Miller is my second choice behind Wheeler, but they won’t pay him.
Braves 1-run record is now 11-8…3rd best mark in the NL.
Yeah, it dont matter…but at least it isn’t 0-19.
Latest
1. Nationals: San Diego State righthander Stephen Strasburg.
2. Mariners: North Carolina first baseman Dustin Ackley.
3. Padres: Georgia HS outfielder Donavan Tate.
4. Pirates: Boston College catcher Tony Sanchez.
5. Orioles: California HS righthander Matt Hobgood.
6. Giants: Georgia HS righthander Zack Wheeler.
7. Braves: Vanderbilt lefthander Mike Minor.
8. Reds: North Carolina righhander Alex White.
If we pick Minor over Matzek or Crow, someone will pay.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=974
Why do they have Matzek falling? (On my phone and can’t access BA.)
No idea. Money I suppose – Matzek wanted Porcello money like everybody else.
Saw that Porcello pitch in Detroit a few weeks ago. The kid’s a moose. He looked pretty good, too. Got ahead of people, nice poise. Just one run in 6 IP. (Zumaya tried to blow the win for him, but held on barely.)
Not bad for a 20-year-old…
I must admit my own conflict of interest regarding Minor, but I would take Matzek, Crow, or even Grant Green ahead of him.
Re: chemistry
• A talented team can transcend bad chemistry, but an average team cannot. One of Cox’s strengths over the years was mother-henning a team that was greater than the sum of the parts.
In other words, of course Reggie’s A’s and Yanks didn’t need group hugs, they were twice as good as anybody in the American League.
• Fin de cycle issues are unavoidable. Cox, Glavine, Smoltz, Leo and even Schuerholz are understandably holding on to yesterday. Wren (who better have one hand on his nuts right about now) is asserting his control and the old guys ain’t happy. (Although Chipper seems downright serene right now.)
• “We’re on a roll!” – Baghdad Bobby.
Question: whom do you wish to see manage the Braves next year?
Preston supposedly made a pass at a bass player I know. Not sure that’s the way God planned it …
Parish—Green? Really? I’m not impressed.
Also, Finley’s various activities tended to bring the A’s together, just as Steinbrenner’s various activities tended to bring the Yankees together. The Yankees, in particular, weren’t actually that antagonistic towards each other, except where Reggie was concerned. And every time Billy Martin got too Billyish, Steinbrenner would fire him and bring in someone low-pressure. It worked very well for about five years.
Memo to Wren:
Make your mark. If they get upset so be it.
RE: Crow
Saw him live multiple times and partied with him a few. Decent guy. Laid back and pretty chill, but knew he was BMOC.
Kind of reminded of me of AJ Burnett, though I only ever saw the fastball top out at 96. Wicked slider. Other pitches were fringe average. Heard a lot about possible injuries though, even whispers at school. FWIW, he was definitely thought of as being a level below Scherzer at Mizzou. Still, ridiciulously good pitcher though
Green would fit a need and he was expected to be the 2nd or 3rd player taken at one point.
I have trouble believing he has dropped that far.
Why are the Nats bothering to take 4 minutes?
Anybody an insider?
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4245770&name=mlb_draft&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4245770%26name%3dmlb_draft
Supposedly our pick will determine what everyone else is going to do (duh)
If it has to be White or Minor, then draft Crow or Purke and go just a little over slot. If they don’t sign we get a compensation pick in a stronger draft.
Parish,
His powerless bat won’t play anywhere but SS, and there are serious questions about his glove there.
Everything I’ve read from Roy Clark says that he’ll take the best player and that he thinks the players ranked 11-30 are pretty interchangeable.
I like the idea to take Crow and use the fact that he’s missed one season already as leverage.
What doesn’t get discussed much is that the Yankee players thought that Billy was a booze-sozzled clown, even in the “Bronx Zoo” era.
As much as most of his teammates despised Reggie—and, save Fran Healy, they really did—they also thought that Billy’s treatment of Reggie pointlessly hurt the team.
Batting him 6th, asking him to bunt, pulling him from a game in the middle of an inning—they were all stupid power moves that put Billy’s ego above the club.
Padres took Tate, as predicted. Not really sure he’s suited to Petco, but they’ve got a few years to worry about that yet.
PIT’s pick is the one that can do it for us…please take Sanchez!
Awesome.. Don’t F this up for us Liberty – one of Crow/Wheeler/Matzek is guaranteed now.
Orioles take Hobgood….almost there!
Jim Callis’ Mike Minor draft is worryingly 5 for 5.
eh. The first 4 were no secret.
well shit.
Wheeler so shocked to be drafted by the Giants that he had the cap ready in front of him.
Matzek/Crow/Miller/Purke/Turner/Leake are all better picks than Minor or White IMHO.
Aw total crap.
So much for hard-nosing Crow, guess we really are that strapped for cash.
Welcome Mike Minor!
bleh
“Minor isn’t going to wow you” isn’t something I like to see about a #7 pick.
This has ownership’s fingerprints all over it.
That said, to quote the fellas of The Lonely Island, “I jizzed right in my pants!”
Now I regret pulling against ATL late last season to get a better Draft position. Though, too be fair if we had been a little worse we could’ve had Wheeler. I blame Fr4nc000r for not sucking enough.
This is where Glavine uses the pick as part of his grievance.
“Listen, they picked Mike Minor over the other guys. They’re obviously strapped for cash! That’s why they had to cut me!”
And the $$ situation really is much worse than we thought I suspect.
Well, if he’s good enough for Roy Clark, I’m on board.
Besides, whose opinion do you value more: Clark’s or Callis/Law?
Also, I’ve never really seen the team skimp on the draft before. I don’t know why we think they’d start doing it now.
So what’s the story on Minor? The only game I followed him in he gave up 6 runs in 4.1 innings and took the loss to a team that’s couldn’t hit much over the season. At the time I had no idea he was even considered for a first round pick. Has he always been that highly thought of or did he turn it on at the end of the season?
From BP’s live chat
“Kevin Goldstein (3:48:21 PM PT): The Braves take Minor. It’s indefensible. You don’t want to take a high school kid, that’s cool. You think he’s better than Alex White, who I’m not even that high on, and you’re nuts.
Number 7 picks who profile as No. 4 starters make no sense. “
Well thats a boring pick. I was looking at all this stuff at work today and was actually kinda excited watching Wheeler’s scouting video. Oh well, only time will tell.
Cheap motherfuckers. end of story.
I don’t know if the pick was indefensible, but I do know that he watches poker on television. That is truly indefensible.
I can’t get too upset about a draft pick. You never know.
I’m sure Matzek will be thrilled to be pitching in Coors.
These guys have a highlight reel for him:
http://vucommodores.blogspot.com/2009/06/video-mike-minor-highlights.html
He reminds me of Mark Redman. I guess that sounds like an insult, but I don’t mean it to be. He just looks like a tall lefty who throws a lot of junk. Maybe his fastball is better than it looks on that video, but he doesn’t seem to be blowing too many people away in that video.
I did find where he was SEC freshman of the year after going 9-1 with a 3.09 ERA and 88 strike outs.
What’s interesting is his sophomore year he went 7-3 with a 4.28 ERA struck out 101.
His junior year he went 6-6 with a 3.90 ERA struck out 114.
So his strikeouts went up along with his ERA after his freshman year.
Aaaand the Royals get Crow. *sigh*
Mike Minor seems like a bum compared to the other options available.
Meanwhile, there is a baseball game going on, and we’re already losing.
Mike Minor – definitely has a good chance to be a #4 starter in the Majors. Solid chance.
Go Braves! Way to use that high pick to gather an impact talent. Weak.
Hope this means money will be spent in the international market or at the trade deadline (especially).
(Then the Nats take a college reliever with pick #10. Garbage. Just garbage. Could’ve had the best righty and lefty pitchers in the draft! At least I’ll get to see Strasburg..)
Disappointing draft.
Escobar is being a douche again.
Yup, he sure was.
I would hate him if he wasn’t a Brave, I just dislike him since he is one.
Feels like a panic pick after the guy they targeted was taken. Speaking euphemistically, the selection is “curious.” I hope he proves me wrong.
@78. Seemed to me like Doug Eddings was being a douche again.
Don’t know how you could panic when this draft order has been pretty well established for 24 hours or so.
Hey Stu, Chip just said he didn’t know Vanderbilt had a quality baseball program. And he said it “VAN-derbilt”, all incredulously, as if to say how do they play baseball with those slide rules hanging off their belts. Thought you should know that.
so is it okay to pull for the Mets for the next few games?
That was weird, but I’ll take it.
In other words, Chip is a comically underinformed moron.
ACHE has no interest in being a Brave, at all.
Anderson taking a leisurely stroll towards the fly ball.
Man he is horrible to watch out there.
Nice defense, ACHE, NOT!!!
🙄
Cut him some slack…it’s not like Vanderbilt has produced any notable prospects lately…
😉
The runs will be charged to Lowe, but they belong to ACHE.
If ACHE had even bothered to run and catch the fly ball this wouldn’t have happened.
“Underinformed” implies that Chip Caray is an occasional source of information.
In other news, Nate McLouth kinda really is a butcher out there.
He’s so bad.
I’m not unhappy with the Minor pick. He knows how to pitch and he’s got a couple of different breaking pitches so he’s not just fastball/changeup. I wouldn’t worry about him turning into a Chuck James.
Chuck James is actually a successful draft pick. We got him in the 20th round, and he won 11 games two years in a row. That’s quite good for a lower-round guy. The problem with Minor is that we picked him with our first pick, 7th overall, with Matzek and Crow still on the board.
And Adam Dunn was too bad defensively to pick up
And James would have been higher had he not jumped off a roof and broke his left wrist.
Oh I know, I’m not comparing them as draft picks. I’m just saying he’s got more potential than your average soft-tossing lefty. Of course that’s still not exactly what you’d like at no. 7 overall.
Where is Chuck James? The Braves non-tendered him and he just disappeared.
Thanks for the tip, sansho. Strangely, it doesn’t even make me mad. Just further evidence why that guy shouldn’t have his job.
Goldstein is exaggerating to make a point. Minor, IMO, profiles as a 3 with some 2 upside; still not what you want with the #7 pick, but he does have some promise. And I disagree that White would have been a better pick; they’re similar bets to be successful, IMO, and Mikie is left-handed.
Minor will be a solid pitcher. He’s got a little more velocity than Chuck James or Jeremy Sowers, to whom he’s frequently compared. His best pitch is that changeup, which is truly excellent. His breaking pitch is only OK, but he just recently started throwing it.
He’s a warrior, too. Quiet kid from a tiny town (Chapel Hill, TN) who’s not a vocal leader but will work hard.
In short, from this VU fan’s perspective, he’s closer to Sowers than to Price on the spectrum, but he’s got clearly-better stuff than Sowers and should be a legit middle-of-the-rotation guy.
I’m giddy to have a VU player to cheer for in a Braves uni; just wish Liberty would’ve allowed us to go after someone with ace upside, which Mikie simply doesn’t have at the MLB level.
I’d like to share a story. I got home at about 6:45 EST this evening. I opened up my browser and immediately went to mlb.com. I had heard on the radio that the first 3 were Strasburg, Ackley, and Tate. I was happy to hear that Tate went to the Padres because that moves one of the pitchers down that they could’ve taken. I had previously read that the Pirates will draft Sanchez. So I figured we had a pretty good chance of grabbing a super-high upside arm. Back to 6:45 and mlb.com. I open the draft tracker. I saw that 5 and 6 were Hobgood and Wheeler. I almost peed my pants with excitement when I put 2 and 2 together and realized that Matzek was still available. I thought to myself, “No way we pass on an opportunity THIS great.”. The thought of Matzek in our farm was thrilling to me. Absolutely thrilling. Then all the hype I had built up came crashing down into reality when I hit “f5” (refresh). Mike Minor. So completely unexciting. Just, eh. I don’t care. We had the opportunity to have arguably the best HS arm in the draft. And we settle for Mike Minor because we’re cheap. Sad. Very sad.
101 — Shoulder surgery, out for the season
Not an exciting pick, and there are obviously better HS arms I wish we’d gambled on but I’m happy we didn’t pick either Crow or Matzek. They interviewed Matzek on MLBTV right after the Rockies picked him. Complete douchebag. Baines asked him if he was bummed about having to give up hitting to pitch for the Rockies and he says, “Well, Oregon has guaranteed me time at 1B too and I’m excited about that.”
“Hit to left center” is quickly becoming fearful words.
mets gave Santana a 3run lead and he’s now down 4-3
How the hell are we losing to this clown?
@ 107: How?
He meant 4-3.
Anderson sucks.
fixed, sorry bout that
Thanks for the gift Adam.
I’d actually rather see Francouer in the line-up than ACHE. As he was strolling down the line on the dp, he must have been thinking, “I think I’ll drive my Bentley tomorrow.”
I HATE ACHE.
ACHE is pathetic
I like Greg (and his permanent ‘stache) but I believe he’s officially lost it.
Until the Braves can get two league-average corner outfielders, they ain’t gonna be better than .500, even with solid starting pitching and infield hitting.
Norton and Anderson aren’t very good.
ACHE is close to single-handedly winning this game for Pittsburgh.
Can we have a mulligan on that ACHE signing…
please?
If somebody can get me an address for Garret Anderson’s home, I will drive to Atlanta and take a dump on his lawn tonight.
I think I hate him worse than I hate Francoeur. At least Stenchy wants to be here.
I just realized the Braves don’t pick again until the third. This draft has been kinda boring…
KJ with the bunt single!
PWHjort,
Funny story. I found out via iPhone as I was waiting in line at Best Buy. I shook my head and let out a very audile “pfft”, which drew a very strange look from the emo douche working the register.
Even if they were sticking to slot, there were better options than Minor. It’s a terrible pick.
Even Chip doesn’t get why Bobby doesn’t just use Lowe to bunt instead of pinch-bunting.
Why use a position player to bunt here? Couldn’t Lowe do this?
Between the pennywise personnel moves in the offseason and the draft, it’s getting very hard to root for this team. That this organization seriously thought Anderson/Francouer would get it done and proceeded to stick with that this far into the season speaks either to willfulness or cynicism in the FO. Coupled with this draft choice, I just don’t believe they are committed to winning in any meaningful way. That or are they crippled by a lack of vision/creativity/skill. It’s just depressing.
Nice bunt, great hustle, Blanco. Now go play LF!!
Yunel!
Gonzalez in to pitch.
That was back-asswards.
Annnnd that’s why we put up the bitching and frosted tips
so did Blanco not replace Anderson in LF?
That deflection and call were fortunate.
well Brandon Jones Dh’d today and went 2-4 and is hitting .306, Barbaro who could play 1st or take Norton’s role went 2-4 and is hitting .344
@ 134: Wow.
How can we not use Prado’s groin thing as an excuse to at least give Barbaro a shot?
Gonzalez has to love striking out the guy he was traded for.
“Groin thing”?
I just woke up and found out tht we picked Minor.
None of us are privy to the scouting reports that the Braves have so the best thing on draft day (which is usually the case) is to reserve judgement.
That said, I don’t see the reason why you would use the #7 pick on a guy who is probably a #3 starter….
At least I can be happy for Minor and Vandy….
Knee/groin/whatever. I think Joe might’ve mentioned the groin after Prado’s late hit last night.
Prado was going to pinch-hit earlier but was pulled back, so I think he’s available.
Though, Norton does appear pretty useless (small sample size and no playing time notwithstanding).
Anderson….my gawd.
Nice at bat ACHE!
Prado was apparently complaining of a knee problem before last night’s game. I assumed that his knee, combined with the length of the previous game, forced Bobby to give Norton a glove tonight.
I wouldn’t mind Barbaro. He was sports-human of the year not too long ago, so he can’t be that bad.
If we do call up Barbaro, what would his rooting section be? Barbaro’s Jockeys?
I know Barbaro is fast, but how can he hit and catch with no hands? Also, I thought they had to put him down?
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Wake up, Andy.
OK, forget the Prado comment I guess.
@144: Barbaro’s Broncos.
Barbaro’s Barbers…
so what is Norton’s use on the team at this point also. They let him hit, but then was replaced defensively by an injured Prado. That cant be good, right?
Hinske has been on everything….
Is that Chipper’s 40th error this year?
Oh dear, Chipper.
What is Chipper’s problem?
Chipper’s been doing to much of that lately.
I do wish we’d give Norton more time in the OF. It’s understandable that he can’t possibly get any rhythm hitting when he rarely plays. I do think he could be a valuable bat off the bench.
What was that Team Captain? He didn’t go down at all on that ball…
Soriano is throwing gas tonight.
A little Roger Dorn action there at third.
BMF!!!!!
Can we please keep Gonzalez and/or Soriano for 2010?
Soriano’s a stud. Can’t be hit.
Why isn’t this guy the closer? Didn’t Norton say last year, that he wasn’t interesting in playing the outfield or the field on an everyday basis?
Soriano!! Nice to win a series and three in a row….
I don’t think he should play everyday. Just a couple of times a week to take PAs away from ACHE and Stenchy. He’s got a lot more discipline than both of them.
Yippee.
Mets win.
Mets just beat the Phillies.
You won’t find a bigger Chipper Jones fan anywhere, but he’s been absolutely foul with the glove this year.
Wat a slide by Rollins…
Recap is up.
Norton is the PH. Prado is the backup 1B/3B. Checking the splits, Prado/Kotchman make a pretty decent 1B option. The question is what happens in the OF when Infante comes off the DL. You assume that Blanco will be sent down when Kotchman is activated. You also assume Infante will play ahead of Francoeur.