211 thoughts on “You’re all alone, Chipper game thread: May 5, Mets at Braves”

  1. From last thread…

    Wow. Just incredible. (referring to Jeffy’s comment)

    But this raises a larger question for me. A number of analysts claim that HOF voters should hold low OBPs against fringe stars even if OBP wasn’t a mainstream stat in their era. The argument appears to be that every ballplayer in every era should understand that making outs is a bad thing. Well, is Frenchy just a lonely bag of hammers or could such a view really have been part a widespread part of the baseball culture in the past?

    Just curious.

  2. I guess Crasnick brought it up in the 2nd paragraph of the article. Should have read it first. How unoriginal of me.

  3. On the last thread AAR @97 says: “The guy DOES NOT THINK that getting on base is a good thing. What more can you say?”

    Where do you get that? The quote, and from what I read of the article, doesn’t make anything close to that point.

    He does seem to make the statement that scoring runs is more important than getting on base. As I said in the previous thread, this is a gross oversimplification, but at base is pretty much indisputable. OBP generally correlates to scoring runs… scoring runs, however, correlates even more closely.

  4. To be fair to Wancoeur, he has hit .393 with runners in scoring position. And to be honest, the Braves need him. He’s a guy who hits for a fairly high average and has some power in an offense that gets on base well but has no other strengths. I don’t like the type of player he represents, but the Braves would be worse off with a guy with a similar level of production but more tilted towards on-base. At least for now.

  5. Other stats not shown on the scoreboard, so how we should act:

    They have stolen bases, but NOT caught stealing, so I would rather steal 10 bases and be caught 20 times, than steal 5 bases and not get caught.

    They show errors but NOT put-outs, so I’m not going to try and catch anything on the fly, and risk an error.

  6. Leo Mazzone said this morning on 680 the Fan that we just need to get healthy first. Okay, I can agree with that. We’re missing McCann’s bat something fierce.

    I wonder if GA can significantly outproduce what we’ve seen from our other LF’s to this point. I don’t buy it.

    Bobby, please keep Omar at 2B. Or play him in CF just to keep him in the lineup (if he can play CF…I’m not so sure).

    Rarely does your 8 hole hitter kill your lineup…but lately, Schafer has been KILLING our production. Put the damn ball in play, kid!

  7. There is a blatant, unabashed, Francoeur fanboi in the house.

    Francoeur is obviously not the Braves’ problem currently. I just want him to be awesome, and the more he opens his mouth, the less confident I am that he’s on track to becoming awesome.

    I’d be more pleased if he said “I have no idea why I’m doing what I’m doing, and I think it’s stupid, but it works for Chipper so I’m giving it a shot.”

  8. The fact is that almost all of Francouer’s “value” so far this season is luck with BBIP with RISP. And most of that luck happened during the first ten games.

  9. Hey, as long as Francoeur provides value above what we pay him, we’re lucky to have him.

  10. “Hey, as long as Francoeur provides value above what we pay him, we’re lucky to have him.”

    True, but he has been below replacement level 2 of the last 3 years, including last year’s epic failure, so i guess if he would stroke us a big check for the last 3 years, we can call it even. I think he is maybe slightly below replacement level so far this year, too, but let’s hold off asking him for the money until we see how the season turns out.

  11. Most of Francouer’s value is in marketing, subtract that out and only count his value as a player above replacement and he is unlikely to be worth a penny this year. And the worst part about all of his blind followers bedazzled by RBIs is that they never consider the opportunity cost of continuing to give at-bats to a player too stupid, and with too little talent, to really improve. The Rockies got four years out of Matt Holliday because they had the balls to give a roster spot and ABs to a rule 5 pickup. I’m not saying we could have Matt Holliday in RF. But by running this moron out there for 162 games a year (maximum) the franchise costs itself opportunity.

  12. @9 – No that would not have helped – he was planning on going to Clemson. It probably would have made things worse.

  13. Francoeur isn’t the problem, but he isn’t the solution, and right now he’s a punch-and-judy batting average guy with holes in his swing. Cutting down on strikeouts is wonderful, but he still has no power and — clearly, as per the quote — no desire to take a walk.

    Call me when he finishes with a better season than Kelly Johnson.

  14. @17 Punch and Judy doesn’t need to be hyphenated I don’t think. It should be capitalized though, I do believe.

  15. Jeff is Punch and the Braves are Judy? Not sure that’s quite fair to Jeff, but appreciate the allusion.

  16. Schafer moves up to 7…and Ross down to 8, per DOB:

    1. Infante, 2B
    2. Escobar, SS
    3. Chipper, 3B
    4. G. Anderson, LF
    5. Kotchman, 1B
    6. Francoeur, RF
    7. Schafer, CF
    8. Ross, C
    9. Kawakami, RH

  17. @20 no, he didn’t miss twelfth at all. He beat bfan to the punch by a whole minute.

  18. This is like some mythological punishment. We play just well enough to lose disappointingly. With a 3-run lead going into the sixth, I allowed myself to hope.

    I remain Charlie Brown to the Braves’ Lucy. Bullwinkle J. Moose to the rabbit in the hat – “this time for sure!”


  19. On McCann and the eyes.

    IF DOB’s source is legit, then McCann is having some degree of kerataconus, and that is not what we want to hear. The ordinary “tighten up” would not take 6 weeks before he could play.

    Glasses are not as good at correcting vision for somebody whose eyes have to move back and forth and up and down (meaning, sitting and looking at a computer or something, the refraction is more exact). The refraction is different at different places in the eye, so you can’t get the correction as “tight” with glasses.

  20. That would be bad. However, it would be (a) a very unusual diagnosis for a person McCann’s age, and (b) an indictment of several eye doctors, particularly the one who performed the Lasix surgery, which is contraindicated.

    I’m starting to get an Esasky vibe at this point.

  21. Check how similar Jo-Jo’s stats are to Francisco Liriano’s so far this season:

    ERA – 5.00 / 5.00
    WHIP – 1.28 / 1.29 (BB/9 – 3.50 / 3.53; H/9 – 8.00 / 8.07)
    K/9 – 7.00 / 7.32

    I noticed this because both are on my fantasy team. Liriano is my most expensive pitcher, and Jo-Jo is my most recent addition.

  22. It’s not a drinking game. It’s just the only way to get through the night watching this team.

    And Brandon Jones got sent down the day after he was the Braves’ best player. Somebody track down Marcus Giles, Brandon may need counseling.

  23. What the hell is going on with this organization?

    Are they all on drugs?
    G.Anderson at cleanup, screw it, I am watching the hockey playoffs.

  24. did you guys actually think Bobby would have someone else at cleanup

    he’s batting .600 in that spot

    Kawakami WILL pitch 6 scoreless innings tonight

  25. csg: not to be the downer, but it’s the seventh inning I’m worried about.

  26. It is baffling to me that Kawakami has had such awful command this year. Good control was like the only surefire plus on his scouting report when we signed him!

  27. Why is he throwing so many fastballs? 50 pitches through two innings, throw that curve

  28. Fifty pitches through two innings with no runs- now that’s something special. Not something I want on my team, but something special.

  29. Popout and groundout- close enough. Did anyone miss Useless Frenchy? He says hi.

  30. @16 – Beat me to it. Although I can certainly see why someone like Frenchy would love Clemson…

    AAR – I think you’re blowing that quote out of proportion. It’s an incredibly stupid thing to say, but he later said his goals this year were to strike out fewer than 80 times and walk more than 50. Give him a break, it sounds like he was half joking.

  31. Has Chip ever not liked a bunt? I’ve lost track of the number of times he’s said that a bunt was “perfect” or “beautiful” only to see the lead runner thrown out. That one wasn’t even a force.

  32. Oh come on, guys! There’s still six innings left… and Kawakami’s usually at least kept them off the board… and Livan’s worn out… and… and…

    Alright, I thought someone here had to be hopeful, but I can’t make myself believe we have any hope of winning this one. Not that I’ll stop following the game, of course.

  33. Mets announcer Wayne Hagin called Chipper Jones “the bully who’s been picking on Livan Hernandez for years.”

  34. Did Infante break from second too early there, or was it just hit too hard at Castillo? All I have to go on is the internet, and all it’s telling me is that Chipper lined into a DP.

  35. Beltran murders us.

    EDIT: The the tune of .314/.401/.605 coming into the night. And that doesn’t count the divisional series when he was with Houston.

  36. And Kawakami somehow gets out of it with a pitch count right at 100. Farewell, Kenshin; we hardly knew ye, but even that was too much for our nerves.

  37. Kawakami is average, but he is fine for a 4th starter.
    I actually think he may get better as the season passes by and he gets used to the MLB game.

  38. Except that the illogical move actually worked.

    Since he bats third in the bottom half, we can be sure that Kawakami won’t see the sixth.

  39. Have to say, 2 runs through 5 is not a terrible outing, though Kawakami was dancing through the whole time. That’s what, an ERA of 3.8? Sounds good to me.

  40. Well, he had a good 5th inning, sure, but my point was that he threw an awful lot of pitches—and an awful lot of pitches per inning—for a guy who’s in his first year of a 5-man rotation and battling a sore shoulder.

  41. Alright, I had never seen video of the Eric Gregg game until they showed it just now, so I was just taking everybody’s word for it. But those pitches were ridiculously outside. How is that possible?

  42. Stu, I’ve become convinced the past few years that the excellent way the pitchers were handled during the division streak was completely because of Leo Mazzone.

    I wish the Braves would hire him back as a consultant or something.

  43. Some teams build their offensive strategy around the three run homer.

    Others play more for one run at a time, utilizing the hit and run, the stolen base, and the sacrifice.

    Our offense seems to be predicated upon grounding to second.

  44. Never think we were only losing by 2 the way this game has gone so far.

  45. Stu, give KK a little bit more time. I actually think he will be fine. It’s a huge adjustment for him coming to the US…especially the fact that he is not a power pitcher.

  46. As I’ve said more than once, kc, I still expect Kawakami to have a good year for us; I actually like his stuff. I’m just confused by all the command issues he’s had, since command was the one thing everyone said he was so good at in Japan.

  47. I have the fullest confidence in our coaching staff to fix whatever is wrong with Jordan Schafer’s swing.

  48. The Mets guys mentioned that he’s been working with Chipper to fix his swing. That gives me some hope.

  49. @97

    Pinch hit with Greg Norton?

    Actually, that may just render it as not an actual opportunity.

  50. Is the American ball smaller than the Japanese one?

    No. The American baseball is larger than the one used in Japan.

  51. Well, according to Chip, K-fer has “tremendous power,” so our coaches should have plenty to work with.

  52. Garret Anderson is worse than Stalin.

    I’m glad I had just swallowed my drink before I read that.

  53. Stu, I honestly think it’s more mental which is leading to his command problem. I guess he is adjusting to the fact that the hitters are not missing as many mistakes as the hitters in Japan, and he is trying to become more precise on his pitches. I am not watching today’s game, but seems to me in the prior games which I have watch that he is trying to pitch away from contact.

    All he needs to do is able to have courage to pitch to contact instead. WIth the movement of his pitches, I think he can be successful pitching that way.

  54. AAR, our offense stinks. It’s simple as that. Keep Prado and Infante in the lineup…

  55. kc: If I had a choice, I’d rather have Chipper coaching me through my problems than TP.

  56. The Braves were tied for second in GIDP coming into the game, six behind the Dodgers, who have had, by far, the most opportunities in the league.

  57. We’re doing a good job of getting runners on base. That means Terry’s doing an okay job. What we aren’t doing is scoring them or hitting with any power. Unfortunately, there’s not a lot Terry can do to make our guys hit with more power — that stuff’s illegal now, remember?

  58. Sori looks like a great trade bait for the coming trading deadline. My agenda to Wren: Trade Sori when his value is high and sign Gonzo to a two-three year deal.

  59. The fact that this team’s runners come in slow, slower, and McCann doesn’t help.

  60. Did we ever figure out why Sheff keeps getting booed? Is it the BALCO connection? Or is it the FA situation where the Yankees tampered with him and we didn’t offer arbitration?

  61. Glad we were able to get Anderson a rehab assignment against a division rival. I’m sure we’ll be reaping huge dividends in no time.

  62. I guess because Sheff took more money from the Yanks. Maybe it was his comments about the Braves playoff woes after he left? Good question.

  63. Maybe Snitker held him? I know that seems like the complete opposite thing he would do, but maybe hes trying to turn things around!

  64. The Braves are third in the league in walks. I don’t know why people keep saying this team doesn’t walk.

    That’s pretty surprising.

  65. Mac,
    I’d have sent him, but Murphy cut the ball off well and it would have been mighty close. Anyway, it wasn’t Jordan’s fault; it was Murphy’s and possibly Snitker’s.

  66. @127

    Garret is playing a simulated game in his mind, though, and he’s 3-4 with a SB.

  67. There are a lotta reasons not to like Gary Sheffield. But yeah, 3 for 30 in the post-season has something to do with it for me.

    Thank you, Mr. Castillo…

  68. Why is it surprising? They were third in the league in walks last year.

    Outside of Chipper, KJ and Schafer, it doesn’t feel like a particularly patient team.

  69. If Boyer knocked out the homeplate umpire, then at least GA wouldn’t be able to strike out.

  70. I call Kotchman’s shots with alarming regularity.

    Actually, it’s probably at about the same rate as a piece of paper that says “ground ball to second”. I guess I’m not really all that amazing.

  71. He is totally shot, no glove, no power=no purpose.
    I am starting to hate everybody on this team except the pitchers and Ross.

  72. Does Chipper’s contract include any clause on salary deduction on each error made?

  73. I wonder what the record is for the longest time between warming up first in a game and then finally being used. Buddy just pulled a 4th inning warmup and a 9th inning appearance.

  74. Well… the good news is that it won’t be another one-run loss.

    This team looks SO weak.

  75. How do you know we don’t have a two-run comeback prepared for just such an occasion?

  76. FWIW, nice cleanup job by Carlyle.

    Watch the Braves’ offense fail to score on Livan Hernandez?

    Watch the Hawks’ defense fail to stop Lebron James?

    Guess I’ll take Cannibal Corpse.

  77. AAR is killing me. I think of two things when I think cannibal corpse: ace ventura and the song “I c** blood”. I can’t type that out on the fears I’ll vomit.

  78. I won’t say I told you so, but this team is just purely bad and every part should be moved I don’t care what anyone says. Hopefully we can beg Chipper into leaving and get a couple pieces.

    Just horrendous.

  79. Brian, I don’t see these clowns getting two runs off the mighty K-Rod… I doubt we get two baserunners. Great work by Carlyle to limit the damage though.

    This team down by three runs feels like a ten-run deficit to me.

  80. Well, there’s one baserunner. Now we just need one more to have the potential tying run ground out to second.

  81. On a positive note, Schafer made Rodriguez throw six pitches. That’s three more than I expected.

  82. lol at Delgado. The Braves will lose in the most painstaking fashion anyway.

  83. please please please tell me k-rod didn’t do any antics … can I get a confirmation?

  84. If I weren’t a Braves fan, I would be rolling on the floor laughing at this.

  85. Ordinarily, I’d ask what the Hell Chipper was thinking of swinging at a 3-0 pitch. But “Bases loaded for Garret Stalin” about covers it.

  86. Well, shucks. This one’s all on Chipper, too. Costly error, final out. DP with the bases loaded earlier. Not his best game.

    I hate the Mets.

  87. Why did Chipper swing at a 3-0 curveball? He had to know they were pitching around him, why did he try to do too much and make a predictable out? To avoid getting Garrett Anderson up there?

  88. Is it bad that I wish GA had been the one to somehow end the game instead of Chipper so I can fuel my hatred for him?

    this lineup is fail

  89. @200 – You aren’t kidding man. I’m surprised Chipper even got a pitch to hit.

    Gameday showed it was a 3-0 pitch.

  90. I was taking ‘a night off’ from the Braves for the sake of my sanity. Well I get back from the gym and of course I turn it on and watch the bottom of the ninth. (of course)

    I know we were lucky to be there, and I just lost all benefit that my sanity may have gained tonight.

    That said, a big deal was made last year was made about Chipper only having something like 2 curtain calls in his career. There is a reason for that. HE ALMOST NEVER COMES THROUGH IN THOSE SITUATIONS. When was the last time he had a ‘walkoff hit’. (the saturday game vs. Seattle last year is the only one I can think of).

    Chipper is the best hitter in MLB in innings 1-6 or when we are ahead by more than one, or behind by 3 or more, but behind less than 3 in the 7th or later, he SUCKS.

    Is it too much to ask for a hit in those situations 1 in 10 times?

  91. The umpire called the second pitch a VERY high strike, so maybe the game cast was confused.

    (Much like myself)

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