Atlanta Braves vs. Cincinnati Reds – Box Score – April 26, 2009 – ESPN
Kawakami just gets worse. Should I put up a Hansonometer or something? It’s not like a win was likely today anyway, but the Braves starter, after getting through three innings with no trouble at all, completely collapsed and couldn’t get out of the fifth, giving up eight runs, with the big blows two homers from Jay Bruce and a bases-clearing double from Joey Votto. Maybe he could have done better with better defense… but not a whole lot better. Those balls were hit.
So it was 8-0 after five, and the Braves hadn’t done much at all on offense. Ross got them on the board with a solo homer, and Brandon Jones, in his first appearance of the year, scored Chipper from third on an infield single. The Joneses were a collective 5-7 with a walk, but the rest of the team was 5-29. Actually, the Braves had only one fewer hit than the Reds, and three walks to the Reds’ one, but the Reds had the extra-base hits, and bunched their production.
That was no fun. Hopefully, the Bravos will get it up for our bi-annual Cox-LaRussa scrap.
New poll.
I did say that “Kenshin kinda sucks”, in the previous thread but I voted Maybe.
meh
I think Maybe. One stat that Sutton said on the radio is that KK gave up 25 BB’s last season in Japan and he’s given up half that amount so far in this season.
Another “stat” Sutton gave was that players like Ron Santo “became twice as dangerous at the plate after a brushback pitch”.
I do think it would be premature to give up on him now after just one bad start. While not great, he was at least servicable in his other starts. His ERA sucks but that’s small sample size. I do think he has to cut down on his homers to be successful, especially since his walk rate is up.
Also, Hanson has only pitched 6 full innings once so far. Let’s wait until June if we’re going to use him this year.
I mean, he was brilliant the first time through the lineup, giving up absolutely no hard contact. And in fairness, the first HR by Bruce was pretty weak. But in that 5th inning… he just got hit really hard.
One thing worth noting is that his command seemed very good early, locating his pitches and getting first-pitch strikes, but in the 4th and moreso in the 5th, he was falling behind players and although he wasn’t really walking people, he was having trouble finding the strike zone in general.
If he can find his command, I think he’ll be fine. But I don’t think he’s had it for a full start yet this season.
Re a Hansonometer: No guarantee Hanson would get the call. Might be Morton.
Recap should have given Escobar credit for a baserunning Prado. Braves might not have come back but 2 on with Chipper at the plate might make things interesting.
There is no way a winner of the Sawamura award and an ace of Japan’s baseball league can be a bust!
Is that even a real question? You’re actually even considering “label[ing] Kawakami a bust” after 4 Major League starts?
Daisuke’s ERA after 4 starts was 4.00, and his first three starts each came on his usual 5 days rest. His fourth start, his first on ML-usual 4 days rest: he gave up 6 earned runs in 7 innings, and even his first season’s ERA was 4.40. KK went on 4 days rest each of the last two starts and, predictably, he’s struggled with the transition.
Here’s Daisuke’s 3rd-6th starts, which include a start on 5 days rest followed by his first two starts on 4 days rest and another on 5 days rest (the same schedule KK’s pitched on this year):
24 IP, 21 H, 13 BB, 3 HBP, 21 K, 19 ER, and a 7.12 ERA
No two transitions are the same, and there are obvious differences between Daisuke and KK, but this clearly shows the how hard any transition of this magnitude can be. If KK is anywhere near the pitcher Daisuke has become, he’s a major steal… considering we paid $51 million less to talk to him. He may never pan out, and there are obvious areas he needs to work on, but calling him a bust 4 starts in is absolutely ludicrous.
RIDE THE DRAGON!
In case anyone missed it from the last thread, Ububba gave an interview on Chop-n-Change.
Certainly very premature to call Kawakami a bust. I’m starting to think he may be better suited for bullpen work because he’s used to a smaller baseball and a 6 man rotation (that he pitched in for 11 years) and I don’t know if he’ll ever be able to build up the arm, shoulder, and lower body strength necessary to be a MLB starter, but to label him a bust overall, way premature.
AAR,
Check’s in the mail.
This looks like fun:
http://www.nme.com/news/bob-dylan/44257
Dylan, Wille and John Cougar are doing a tour of minor league stadiums this summer.
Got a kick out of that “greatest drummers of all-time” convo on the NME site.
Don’t get me wrong—I’m a big White Stripes fan—but Meg White & no Lars Ulrich?
I’m not sure that what Meg does can even be considered “drumming”.
Today’s Mark Trail guest writer: Joe Simpson!
Where’s this “greatest drummers” conversation… I can’t even begin to imagine how Meg White could make that list… oh wait, I can… *cough cough* affirmative action *cough cough*
I’m not even sure Lars would make it (I’ve lost just about every thread of respect for Metallica in the post-Black Album days,) but you’d have to go pretty deep to get to Meg White. I’m not too well acquainted with The White Stripes, but from what I’ve heard it doesn’t even sound like she’s going for that sort of thing. She does her job reasonably well, don’t get me wrong, but she never really goes out of her way to show off her drumming chops.
@10: So when’s my interview coming up? Haha… but seriously, I’ve got a great plan that addresses Mr. Tremayne’s dislike of the current playoff format… maybe some boring off-day I’ll try it out around here.
Lars is a terrible drummer. I would probably put meg white above him, but neither deserve to be mentioned in a best drummers list
And a man with leprosy nubs is a better guitarist than Eric Clapton.
Meg is perfect for the White Stripes & Lars is perfect for Metallica, but I’m actually a bigger fan of Charlie Watts.
In the Yanks/Sox game on ESPN, Ellsbury has just stolen home. He could then have lapped the bases another two-three times before the maroons at ESPN bothered to show a replay.
Although the Red Sox annoy me more than the Yanks, there’s something sort of fun about seeing the $200m team losing and on the verge of being swept.
Oliver Perez lit up AGAIN as Mets lose to Nationals.
Perez ERA: 9.31
Think the Mets wish now they sprung the extra cash on Lowe?
@19 – ouch. That hurts. I guess I’m biased, but I always thought he was at least second tier behind Hendrix and Duane.
Meg White is not a very good drummer. I wouldn’t call her bad, but she doesn’t deserve mention in a best-of discussion.
If you want to talk about female musicians, how about that fiddle player that played with Ryan Adams in Whiskeytown?
Unless you were being sarcastic. So it goes.
21–hate to hear that happen
/sarcasm
#22
No, I’m more making the point that Lars Ulrich is anything but a “terrible” drummer. The list mentions the Slayer guy and I guess he’s supposed to cover double-foot speed-metal category. But Mo Tucker and Meg White?
I’m not an enormous Clapton fan, either, although the Layla album (with Duane, of course) is one of my faves. Hendrix was a much more innovative artist, for sure.
The point of those types of lists is to get people talking. Guess it succeeded.
Keith Moon anyone?
11 –
Peter, I don’t think strength is really playing a part in his struggles. That’ll probably turn into a problem in July/August as he pitches more innings than he probably ever has, but for now I don’t see why that would really be affecting him.
It just seems to me that he doesn’t have the stuff to consistently miss bats and get outs against MLB hitters yet. I’m not at all ready to give up on him, but he’s just got to keep improving his stuff and getting used to pitching to MLB hitters. He’s shown flashes of stuff that’s impressed me, it’s just a matter of doing that consistently.
Mets/Nats seems to be mimicking Braves/Reds. Here are the scores for the series:
Braves-Reds
4-3
10-2
2-8
Mets-Nats
4-3
8-2
1-8
I hate to admit it, but I agree with Gadfly on KK. 4 games is waaay too early to say whether he’s a bust or not.
Also it’s nice to see the Marlins coming down to earth, but too bad the Phillies are taking advantage of it. That’s now 6 losses in a row for the Fish.
Gadfly,
You’re right, it is only four starts…you have your eyes on any more 23 million dollar trade chips we should be collecting?
Francouer has finally parted ways with a .300 AVG and .330 OBP, not to meet again until the first two weeks of 2010 (if as a fourth OF for the Royals he gets enough ABs to qualify).
Let’s keep our fingers crossed that BJones spends the next 10 days raking like a mofo and GAnderson can go straight from the DL to his condo in FL.
Speaking of music, did anyone else pick up the new Booker T. (of the MG’s fame) album? He’s backed by Drive-By Truckers and Neil Young, and it’s just as good as you would think with that kind of pedigree.
Booker T and Neil Young? This I gotta hear.
Ya know, if Joe Morgan had just a little more humility (or less defensiveness) his experience and insights would be valuable.
As it is …
Yeah, I dig the Booker T record. The version of Outkast’s “Hey Ya” is pretty great.
Also, always loved Keith Moon, especially when he gets going on “Behind Blue Eyes.”
“Where’s this “greatest drummers” conversation… I can’t even begin to imagine how Meg White could make that list… oh wait, I can… *cough cough* affirmative action *cough cough*”
You continue to awe me with your unique blend of bad humor and ideological simplicity.
Add me to the Keith Moon list.
First off, where is this greatest drummer’s conversation? Though honestly, from what I’ve heard already the discussion here is probably closer to the mark.
I love Keith Moon, and Watts does his thing (not sure I’d call it “best ever” material, but again he fits the band.)
For me the list isn’t anywhere close to the mark if it doesn’t start with Vinnie Colaiuta.
Favorite drummers? Elvin Jones, Kenny Aronoff, Dale Crover from the Melvins. Captain Beefheart’s best drummer, John French, gets an honorable mention. As does Roger Hawkins, of course.
About 28: I know I’ve done a lot of things that have perhaps unintentionally irritated people at this site. I haven’t yet done anything I’m sorry about, until now. I apologize whole-heartedly for inspiring JoeCraigMcMurtry to open his yap. I’d bet Francoeur gets back to the .300/.330 mark before this guy says anything worth the time it takes to read it.
@32: You’ve lost me completely. I’ll admit the attempt at humor was pretty heavy-handed, and probably fell short of the mark, but I’m not sure where you get ideological simplicity out of it. I wasn’t making a case for or against affirmative action, though I have plenty of opinions I’d be happy to share in another forum. I was simply saying that the only reason she was included was purely political… you can make a case either way on the merits of affirmative action, but you’ve got to be pretty dense to not see that it exists.
Uh, erm… Neil Peart? Anyone? Anyone?
No.
My personal favorite drummers are Steve Gadd and Bernard Purdie. But if you want to talk about technical skill I’d have to go with Peart.
Meg White is Moe Tucker. Tucker should get Coke lawyers to sue Meg for taste infringement.
Great drummer I just saw live: Dan Elektro of The Woggles.
I’ll give you Gadd, and especially Purdie. And don’t get me wrong, I like Rush, the band, for the most part, but if you are going solely on technical skill I would go with Buddy Rich over Peart.
@35, “I was simply saying that the only reason she was included was purely political”.
Not even close. Don’t you work in marketing?
The Woggles are a true treasure.
@40: I figured we were talking about rock drummers, or I would’ve brought up Buddy Rich a long time ago.
I don’t work in marketing… and I’m not exactly sure what you meant with your response. “Political” probably isn’t the right word, I sort of second guessed it when I wrote it, but it gets the idea across. Again, not taking anything away from Ms. White, she suits the band, but she’s nowhere near a discussion of greatest drummers, and the only reason I could think of to justify including her is that she’d be one of the better/few female drummers to come to mind (Sheila E being the other.)
I agree with those who think that it is too early to give up on Kawakami–it did not help to pitch at the Great American Ballpark….Still, yesterday’s game was not encouraging….
Stephen, do you know where on earth is DeVall? I am surprised seeing Spruill doing well at Rome while we have heard nothing on DeVall.
I am surprised in a discussion of best all time drummers it took so long to see Neil Peart mentioned.
It’s not like there has been some official statement about DeVall. He signed late and will probably be in short season ball again this year. Spruill pitched more than DeVall last year and was better in that admittedly short time. Of the Sruill-DeVall-Stovall triad, Zeke looked the most ready for full season ball.
He’s looking good so far. Just had a 6-inning, 7-K, 1-run outing.
Meg White being on the “best drummers” list isn’t political, it’s just idiotic.
IMHO the White Stripes have a cohesive persona of which Meg is an integral part — two musically precocious eight-year-olds playing make believe and prone to tantrums. Neal Peart backing Jack White wouldn’t make any sense.
I kinda think Dice-K is a bust.
Peart hits a lot of drums, but I don’t really like his style all that much.
My favorite drummer is Stewart Copeland. Just putting his name out there.
Peart can’t not hit a lotta drums. Technically, he’s very wowie, but oh those lyrics…
Love Copeland. To me, he was always the most interesting part of The Police. That said, I went to a reunion show last year (with Elvis Costello opening) and they kinda turned into The Jazz Police, as if they were bored with their own great pop songs.
IMO, the White Stripes are Jimmy Page playing, Robert Plant singing & Mo Tucker clip-clopping away. That’s why I like ’em.
And for the Buddy Rich fans: http://tinyurl.com/2ruwul
Since nobody’s mentioned them, how about Ginger Baker? Or Jaki Leibezeit, from Can?
At least Kawakami is doing better than Oliver Perez.
My favorite drummer: Karen Carpenter
Sang okay, too!
…which leads us to Phil Collins.
@ 51
Adam,
I’m with you on Jaki Leibezeit.
And as much as I idolized Lars as a kid…he is awful.
I love this blog for a lot of reasons, but foremost among them is the breadth of topics discussed. It’s great to come here after a Braves loss and read a debate about who belongs on the “greatest drummers” list. For my money, by the way, it doesn’t get any better than Stewart Copeland. He’s sort of like Neil Peart without the unnecessary flash . . . and bad songs.
Thanks for the link on Oliver Perez Mac. As much as we complain about the Braves, there are very few things more satisfying than reading a Mets blog and seeing how bad it could be if I was a Mets fan.
Oh, a Can fan—well done…
As for singing drummers, I’ll take Levon Helm.
@56 – You should check out a live concert they did somewhere in South America for PBS. Or at least it was aired on PBS. They really stretch the limits of credibility – Stewart runs around a little bit to mess around with some chimes, Sting speaks way too much Spanish, Andy is boring as ever, but the songs still sound amazingly fresh.
ububba, is there any other choice? I guess Don Henley and Phil Collins…but I can’t imagine going with either of them after hearing the Last Waltz.
before we axe Kawakami and his 1-3 record and 7.06 ERA, check out these guys
Burnett 5.47ERA 2-0 (we wanted to give him $80 mil)
Peavy 5.74ERA 2-3 (we wantd to trade the farm for the guy)
Sabathia 4.81ERA 1-1
Hamels 9.69ERA 0-2
Perez 9.31ERA 1-2
Beckett 6.0 ERA 2-1
Liriano 0-4 7.06ERA
there is a lot of bad pitching around the league right now
Any hockey people care to explain this?
As for singing drummers, I’ll take Levon Helm.
Amen.
I’m a little surprised nobody’s mentioned Dave Grohl, especially his work with Queens of the Stone Age. And no Chad Sexton?
ububba, is there any other choice? I guess Don Henley and Phil Collins…
Well, there’s always Fred LeBlanc, a family friend!
Levon is straight dirty. See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIpfhEwlw5c
KK is also < 2/3 the price of Perez.
I’ll happily second Dave Grohl.
Hey, here’s your fun Albert Pujols Fact of the Day:
In his career, he’s batting .372/.466/.744 in 208 PA against the Braves, with 15 HR and 32 walks, 11 of them unintentional.
Last year, he was .565/.667/1.261 with 3 homers in 7 games against us — yes, that’s a 1.928 OPS, which looks like a human typo. It means that we only succeeded in getting him out one third of the time. Two thirds of his times at the plate, he either got on or homered.
We’ve obviously had very little need for a 5th starter for the entire month of April, however that will change a lot in May. We have 5 off days and play a total of 21 games in 26 days in April. In May, we play 30 games in 31 days, including 13 in a row and 17 in a row.
It’s a strange schedule, but other teams are similarly affected – although the Phillies have 3 open dates in May. Starting pitching depth and pitching depth in general will be strongly tested.
Dave Grohl’s great. Didn’t mention him because he was included in the original NME link. Hits it hard.
Saw Nirvana many years ago at the Roseland & watched him all night. Same thing with a Queens of the Stone Age show at Bowery Ballroom. He just bludgeoned.
Stu,
Fred LeBlanc. Sure, quite a showman.
Adam,
Thanks for the Levon link.
Weld0n,
You better ask the North Carolina people on the board. I think that one transcends hockey.
Yeah, but we have David Ross!
Yes, this is what the Braves need without McCann:
“We just all have to go out and do what we’re supposed to do,” hitting coach Terry Pendleton said. “Whether it’s bunting, getting a guy over, getting that two-out knock. We have to do those things, with or without Mac.”
Clearly, the Braves don’t bunt enough.
Well, our pitchers certainly don’t bunt successfully very often.
John Bonham
KC–I agree with Parish; I would have been surprised to see DeVall start at Rome….
Peart, Copeland and Grohl are all great–but there ought to also be a place at the table for John Bonham…
Although she leaves much to be desired technically, Mo Tucker has a unique style that is unmistakably hers. Considering her contributions to the Velvets’ first three albums, she belongs on any list of great drummers.
(I usually just read others’ posts and don’t leave comments, but since one of my favorite drummers came up I just had to throw in my two cents.)
Max Weinberg.
Going to see the Mighty Max next week at Nassau Coliseum.
He actually wrote a pretty good book about drummers, called “The Big Beat.”
http://www.amazon.com/Big-Beat-Max-Weinberg/dp/1424316677
Anyone seen anything on Glavine? He was shut down for two weeks a little over two weeks ago, but I haven’t read anything about whether he’s starting a throwing regimen.
Jeff K, he was supposed to rest until tomorrow and then be re-evaluated or/and test his shoulder as far as I remember? Haven’t heard anything since.
so Piniero is 3-0 with a 4.10 ERA. How is that possible with only 5k’s in 19IP. KJ has had a lot of success vs the guy
Well, before he turned into Phil Collins and the Phylistics, I liked his work. (How is it humanly possible to go from “The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway” to a sappy – could there be any other kind – remake of “Groovy Kind of Love”.
Van Halen’s drumming is at least distinctive.
Keith Moon, like the rest of the band, peaked on “Who’s Next” – just amazing.
———–
Oh, yeah – baseball. My favorite current player is coming to town tonight. I honestly believe Pujols is Top 25 all time.
Quick: guess which 1B is hitting .288 with 5 homeruns and 14 rbi.
Nope – not Kotchman – our old buddy Adam LaRoche. So why did we do all that, anyway?
In the last 4-5 years, Joel Pineiro has been one of the very worst full-time starting pitchers in baseball. Let’s hope he returns to form.
BTW, I like tonight’s mound matchup.
just walk Pujols
Game thread is up. If I knew all this drummer discussion was coming I would have had something relevant as the video. Oh, well.
Pujols is already Top 25, pretty easily, counting both pitchers and hitters. The question is just how high he can go before he retires (or before his body retires on him).