If I had known it would take this long, I would have gone ahead and done Part III already. Now, it seems like I wasted a week if I don’t continue to wait.
How about those Falcons?
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…from the last thread…
Agreed, A-Rod over Manny.
I think the only that could be argument made for Manny over A-Rod is the “clutchedness.” However, some article last week (Hard Ball Times, maybe) showed how A-Rod has actually been better than his average in “high-leverage” situations.
M<aybe try III (a): Pitchers and III (b) others.
Francoeur traded yet? Are the twins really looking to trade Delmon Young already? I’d take him or Span
To be honest, don’t expect much from me for the next two weeks. I have a presentation and a paper and another presentation to do on succeeding Mondays.
Would anybody take Homer Bailey for Francoeur?
drewdat,
Yeah, both of those guys are level-headed. Jake was like a junior in college when he wrote that, so I wouldn’t hold it against him forever. He’s a bright guy.
Yes, I would take Homer bailey for Frenchie. Given that Frenchie was 7 games below replacement level in 2008, I would take “player to be named later” for Frenchie, and then never ask the other team to name the player. Seriously, he has been below replacement level in 2 of his 3 full years in the bigs. If he starts 2009 slowly, I hope we have the sense to DFA him.
I would take Homer, the blind 9th century BC poet, over Francoeur.
And I’d take Beetle Bailey, who couldn’t be any slower.
Tommy Bowden fired. Cullen Harper communicated with a reporter through a text message and said that Bowden deserved it.
I would take a bottle of Bailey’s Irish Cream, and I don’t even drink!
foxsports has it, Bowden fired
If you dont move Frenchy for something right now (if you can) after next season you’ll have to DFA him
Acting head coach at Clemson is Dabo Swinney, a former Alabama player who is looking pretty smart for turning down a job offer from Saban.
I would take Homer Simpson over Francouer….anyone see that softball episode? Homer can rake….
I would take Homer the Homeless Goose, a goose who has represented the homeless in Austin, Texas since 1988.
Maybe, I should have asked if anybody thought we could get Homer Bailey for Francoeur.
I think (hope) we could, but I am not sure Wren would do it.
Interesting. I’m working (in this moment) on Giambattista Vico’s claim that Homer wasn’t a single person nor from a singular time, but rather the accumulation of the peoples’ treatment of corrupted true narrative — representing the manner of thinking of entire peoples over time. Vico’s view of cyclical history is kinda giving me a headache. But I’ll take that over Frenchy.
apparently the Padres are already having trade talks for Peavy. I thought you couldnt have talks during this time, or can you just not make any deals until after the WS? Whats the time table there.
They are reporting that he’d only waive his no trade clause for NL teams
#18 – That would be good news. Now, if only he would say “I will only waive my no trade clause for NL teams in Georgia.”
Mac — as a kid when I was watching the Braves in the mid to late 80’s I was either too oblivious or the Braves were too bad for me to get a full grasp on the rivalry with the Dodgers. Where could I read up on it? Thanks.
I don’t think you could call it a rivalry, except in ’82-’83. Most of the time they just kicked our asses.
I’d say it qualified as a rivalry in ’91.
Darn! Time and change take away things you always thought you’d cherish.
Such as the enjoyment of the high notes from Tull’s “Aqualung” turned up to eleven.
And, more tragically:
I can’t hate the Red Sox anymore.
I mean, how can you hate Francona and Lester and Lowell and Youk and Ells. Good grief, they’ve even got Kotsay and Jason Bay.
Now that Manny’s gone, about all that’s left to dislike is Sawx fan. The absolute rudest, foulest, most arrogant bunch I’ve ever been around. (Full disclosure: I haven’t been to Philadelphia.)
I hate it when I lose a good hate.
…about all that’s left to dislike is Sawx fan.
That’s plenty enough for me.
21 — My advisor’s husband is also a professor on campus and he spits venom about the Braves and their apparent affiliation with the devil. I know there’s no love lost between the teams, just wondered why he’d be so worked up over a team that was on par with LA only on occasions.
Lol at Clemson and Francoeur.
Now that Manny’s gone, about all that’s left to dislike is Sawx fan.
? Manny was the only likeable thing they had going. Now they’re just a bunch of overpaid whiners who practically come unglued if the ump has the audacity to call a strike on them. It’s like a team full of Bobby Coxes. Combine that with their positively toxic fans, and they are the easiest hate out there.
I can hate Youkilis all day. He looks like a jackass.
Maddon dodged a bullet just then. No reason to put Garza back out there in the seventh.
BALDELLI SIGHTING!
Ballgame. Well done Paul, old buddy.
A-Rod career: 306/389/578
(2,042 G, 553 HR, 1,606 RBI)
Manny career: 314/411/593
(2,103 G, 527 HR, 1,725 RBI)
A-Rod all-time post-season: 279/361/483
(39 G, 7 HR, 17 RBI)
Manny all-time post-season: 279/389/536
(101 G, 27 HR, 72 RBI)
Both future Hall of Famers, both among the greatest hitters in their generation, both annoying for their own unique reasons.
Let’s not leave defense out of the equation.
Anyone here think Manny for a few seasons would be a good idea? Perhaps a 2 year deal with an option? He would look good in LF…..
33 — pass. Great hitter, but too much money. You can deal with the headaches, but I don’t think we need to seek them out.
Juan Pierre: managed to suck at the only thing he’s good at.
Hard to think of too many ways you could spend the money any better, but you’re still probably right… I’m sure Boras will try to get him get paid as much as A-Rod, and settle for something around $25/year. Depending on how much Dunn or Burrell would cost, that might either make them look like bargains or make him look affordable.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, despite my hatred for the Yankees, I want to see A-rod and Manny play in the same lineup.
You almost did in 2004, but the Players Association wouldn’t agree to A-Rod’s trade from Texas to Boston.
ububba,
RE: Manny & A-Rod
So what conclusion do you come to? With defense taken into consideration (GGs at SS, good defense at 3B), I’m with A-Rod. Oh, and A-Rod plays when he’s supposed to. I like that.
Matt Stairs, quickly supplanting Scott Thorman as our favourite Canadian?
Having lived in Philly, I’ll always root against their teams. And from a more practical standpoint, too many people will be calling me with the expectation for some sort of congratulations (not much modesty in the greater Philadelphia area). I already have my response ready: oh, is it still baseball season? Did the Phillies do well?
Rob,
Depends on what kind of team I have.
Manny’s a dunderhead & A-Rod’s a choker. I have a hard time rooting for either.
If my team is middling to good, I’ll take A-Rod; if it’s elite, I’ll take Manny.
Report on Braves minor league system on Minor League Baseball.com
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/season_in_review.jsp?c_id=atl
Baseball America released its Top 25 college recruiting classes last Friday. Check out that top 5. I guess you could say that the SEC is the SEC of baseball conferences.
Sorry, but Manny and Boras are to me the baseball equivalent of Chavez and Ahmadinejad.
Don’t want them anywhere near the Braves.
#44…that’s only b/c UNC lost all those players to the draft.
in august people were wondering if their class might be one of the BEST OF ALL TIME…
and no, we’re not talking about basketball, either.
#43 – in your link, did anyone see who won offensive player of the week for Aug. 18th?? the one and only, .083 hitting, Corky Miller
Right, but that’s part of the game, dude. You target kids who will actually play for you. UNC with a big-time fail this recruiting season.
PS: ASU and VU lost several big-timers to the draft, too, but still finished at the top of the rankings. I’d love to see what Corbin and Bakich could do if they were able to have rosters as big as some of these state schools.
#43
Anyone who’s been to UGA’s Foley Field knows what a blast it can be—terrific atmosphere. As Coach Perno mentions, I can imagine a baseball recruit being impressed as well.
Wow, Chavez AND Ahmadenijahd? Thats pretty harsh….I just think Manny would provide some great protection for Chipper and McCann, and would allow us to groom players in the minors, instead of rushing them. If we do sign a FA outfielder, we are going to pay. Would you rather give that money to Burrell or Manny, knowing that neither of them were long term options?
#38 ~ No; Manny was going to be part of the package sent to Texas in the Arod deal five years ago. If I recall correctly, it was ARod plus dollars from Texas, Manny from Boston, and ARod rewriting his contract to spread out the money more favorably for the Sox.
Stu–If the Braves had not drafted and signed Adam Milligan, then Vandy might have had the top class. It still nice to see Vanderbilt well positioned for the future….
If the ‘Dores had to lose Milligan, at least he went to the Braves. Maybe, that’s why I feel the loss of Ryan Westmoreland was worse.
@51- Wasn’t Nomar then going to be traded to the White Sox for Magglio Ordonez?
@54 – wasnt Andruw going to be traded for Maggs at one point
Milligan would not have been enough to put us over Arizona State. He was only the third-most highly rated guy (out of three) we lost to the draft, anyway (behind Westmoreland and Hewitt).
Besides, if you start adding guys to VU’s class, you have to add Hosmer and Skipworth to ASU’s class…
I admit that the more he rakes, the less righteous my indignation.
But, like sin, Manny is fun for a season. But quitting on your teammates like that is on par with betting on your team to lose, imo.
I’d rather have Bonds than Manny. At least Bonds was cheating to win (or, at least, perform).
#51
Correct. I had Nomar on the brain.
Remember when he was a butcher of a SS?
Well, whatever Manny did or didn’t do, it didn’t really seem to hurt the Sox since they won the World Series twice. I think the issue with Manny, besides money, is that he never really liked playing in Boston and wanted to get out. The way he did it was bad, to be sure, but it’s not as if he has consistently been a cancer. But I think it only works if he is on a very good team that has a real shot at winning. I’m not sure the Braves would be a good fit as they might have been in the days of yore.
An exciting and well thought out piece of journalism from one of baseball’s leading thinkers
Can we please not get into this stuff?
Sorry. I just saw an absurd statement and was having some fun with it but I can see how pouring gas on the fire is not always the best solution. Feel free to delete that stuff; I’ve passed my window of being able to edit.
Of course, there is a baseball game tonight.
What’s the over/under on the number of bases the Rays steal on Wakefield?
I’ll say Tampa swipes 4 and loses 7-6.
Were I to identify BHO or McCain as an obvious negative, you (Mr. SwingsandMisses) might have a point.
I hardly think denigrating two individuals who have openly championed our demise can be deemed political (at least in the intramural sense of the guidelines of this estimable blog).
Bite me.
I was mocking you for making a statement that makes no sense not because it was political.
Thanks for the offer but I’ll pass.
To lighten up the mood around here.
http://tinyurl.com/4ybza9
Aybar batting sixth for the Rays tonight, Kotsay sixth for the Red Sox.
Glad we could help out. Can’t believe we didn’t have to throw another player into the Kotsay deal to get it done.
#66
That’s insane.
The ole’ knuckleball ain’t knucklin’ tonight.
The shift against Ortiz is the most extreme I’ve ever seen. Longoria is two paces from being directly behind second base. Pat Corrales is surely pleased….
Aybar!
I guess Shula could do one thing right…
Hell, it took me almost seven years (interrupted by a pizza delivery career).
VU had a few guys go back for their degrees, too. Plus, some of the transfers graduated from their next school. I’m sure that happens around the conference, too.
I’m on pace for a not four year graduation date at Georgia Tech. Interrupted by my inability to make good grades.
It’s always amused me how having players be too successful at athletics hurts a school’s graduation numbers.
Also, that article by Rosenthal was stupid.
I wonder if the Rays would be willing to trade Aybar to us, we could give them Ridgeway.
“I wonder if the Rays would be willing to trade Aybar to us, we could give them Ridgeway.”
And Francoeur.
The first line of the caption below espn.com’s picture of the Rays: “The Cinderella Rays are one win from the Fall Classic.”
They had the third-best record in baseball, and if you count playoff games, the best. They are not a Cinderella team. Knowledgeable baseball people predicted they’d be very good coming into the season, and these not-so-fantastic predictions have been born out. Of course, ESPN doesn’t employ knowledgeable baseball people–ok, two–or much cover teams not in Boston or New York, so I guess it’s somewhat understandable they see the Rays as a Cinderella story. Perhaps the news is just now filtering in that the Yankees didn’t make the playoffs.
Ok, superfluous rant over.
It has more to do, I think, with the basic fact that Tampa won 66 games last year & they won 97 this year.
It’s no great conspiracy. I’d guess that plenty of the people who picked Tampa to improve dramatically also picked Detroit to make the post-season.
Stu, UNC lost 9 players to the draft.
9 of them
i’ll say it again: 9!
we still have something like 6 players coming…but sheesh…9?
yeah, we’re having a HUGE HUGE fall…
#1 right now, methinks, for the 2009 year.
If you listen to Willie Giest(sp?), Vanderbilt is the finest educational and athletic institution on the face of this planet….
I have no idea who that is, but he sounds like a bright guy.
@81 He said huge fail, not huge fall.
and @82 wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that this planet rests on the heels of the finest educational and athletic institution in this universe?
would you trade Heyward or Hanson in a package for Peavy? MLB trade rumors and DOB have stated that we let Towers know that we are interested. I dont see how a deal could get done without one of those guys being the centerpiece also.
Mac’s SEC Power Rankings, Woo!
1. Alabama
2. Florida
3. Georgia
4. LSU
5. South Carolina
6. Ole Miss
7. Vandy
8. Kentucky
9. MSU
10. Arkansas
11. Auburn
12. Tennessee
csg,
Hanson, yes. Heyward, no.
Mac,
We beat South Carolina and Ole Miss!
Actually, I thought about making 5-9 a five-way tie. I’m pretty sure about the first four and the last two. (And those aren’t jokes — Auburn and Tennessee are, by far, the two worst teams in the SEC right now.)
I honestly don’t see how anyone could have Vanderbilt any higher or lower than 5th. Other than Alabama, its resume is the easiest to place of any team in the conference.
#83, I was going to make an Auburn joke, but then I realized something: where’s Wryn? (Or Fulton County Bombers, or whatever he calls himself now?)
Practice. He’s playing quarterback in Morgantown in ten days.
so now Burns gets named the starter. Hey at least they’re still running the spread without any knowledge of how to run it. Their top playmaker, Fannin, touched the ball once last week. Auburn has no real playmakers in this style of offense and after they lose to WV, UGA, Bama and a possible Ole Miss loss Tubby could find himself out the door. Things are looking bad, down on the plains
Gump For Heisman: The Alabama Football Fan’s Guide to following the 2008 Auburn Tigers
if we trade Heyward for the future tommy john surgery that is Peavy, I will officially be a Royals fan…
sheesh…
now, if we traded a package of Schafer, Flowers, Medlin, Locke and Lilli, I will think that Wren is as close to Schuerholtz as possible.
otherwise, spend the $ on Lowe, Burrell and kick the tires of Grienke.
#83, I was going to make an Auburn joke, but then I realized something: where’s Wryn?
The question that answers itself….
The problem with Peavey is that EVEN IF we get him, that won’t make us competitive next year. It will take two more moves. Each of those moves will cost money or players.
I think you can give Hanson because it is pitcher for pitcher. But, I wouldn’t prefer to.
The package the DBacks gave for Haren had no one spectacular player of Hanson or Heyward’s level. AND, San Diego is so bad they need quantity anyway.
Maybe expand the deal to take Brian Giles (to be our extra outfield hitter)? They don’t have any other players they might trade that we woould want or coudl use.
I don’t see that as a problem, Cliff. We’d have him under control and in the prime of his career for the next several years, so we could still acquire Peavy in 2009 while ultimately building for 2010.
In the rich tradition of Dooley-esque poormouthing—the line’s UGA -15 this week—here’s a quasi-preview of the Georgia-Vanderbilt game.
http://tinyurl.com/49lrss
Another interesting line: Mississippi State +8 @ Tennessee.
#96 – I see it differently. We have about $40mil to spend. If you get Peavy ($11 mil next), add another FA pitcher Lowe ($13-15), get Burrell or Dunn ($14-15) you can become competitive in 09. Wren has a chance to prove himself this offseason, its a tough task though…
State has a good D, I think they could win @ UT right now. I would take the points
Of all the lines this week, that’s the spread that jumped out at me. Seems like that game has 13-10 written all over it.
I’ll be a little bit surprised if we don’t cover that spread. I think it’s reasonable considering last week’s performance, but I like our chances of staying with Georgia.
I don’t think Vandy should be ranked 5th anymore. Sorry, Stu, but they’re near the bottom of the SEC in both total offense and defense.
It’s smoke and mirrors, essentially.
You never have to apologize for winning, and Vandy’s the last bunch that ever should.
LOL at braves14. Still smarting from getting beaten 2 years in a row, huh?
How about conference records or head-to-head matchups? No way either South Carolina or Ole Miss should be ranked ahead of us.
Anyway, you can take as many statistical victories as you’d like. I’ll take the ones on the scoreboard and in the standings.
PS: Turnovers, penalties, and special teams yardage are all valid statistics, too.
Wryn’s been gone since before the football season. Let’s leave it at that.
Didn’t mean to step on any toes, Rob. I should have put a 🙂 at the end of #95.
FYI Bill Bowers passed away today. You might not know the name, but you know the voice:
http://tinyurl.com/3tl3zb
The SEC Power Poll rankings are pretty close to mine.
How about conference records or head-to-head matchups? No way either South Carolina or Ole Miss should be ranked ahead of us.
I guess it depends on what criteria you are using for your rankings. If you are making a list of who has the best resume thus far, then sure Vandy should be higher. If you are ranking teams by who you actually think is – you know – a better team, then Vandy is about right.
I mean if you were making out a Pac-10 power rankings would you put Oregon State ahead of USC? They have the same conference record and OSU won the head to head…
So, the argument is that USCe : VU : : USCw : OSUw ?
I’d say that’s deserving of another LOL.
Why exactly would one assume that South Carolina is “better”? Is it that convincing display against Wofford or the tough road win in Lexington?
PS: our conference record is *better* than South Carolina’s.
Sad to hear about Bill Bowers. I am from the Americus area.
His dad, Dick, opened a good fairly upscale restaurant (The Rib & Loin) west of Americus on U. S. 280 (toward Plains) about when Jimmy Carter started running for president. Bill used to play and sing in a band in the lounge there.
Rib & Loin and another one further toward Plains (Le Normandie, a country French place that is one of the best places I ever ate) used to pull in the national press corps in big numbers.
I know guys that tried to pick up Jane Pauley, people that ate with Tom Brokaw. it was a wierd time in that small of a town.
So, the argument is that USCe : VU : : USCw : OSUw ?
I’d say that’s deserving of another LOL.
Why exactly would one assume that South Carolina is “better”? Is it that convincing display against Wofford or the tough road win in Lexington?
Ah, whatever. You won some close games, good for you. I would “assume” that South Carolina is better because I’ve seen both teams play and they have better players. And yes I’m aware Vandy won the head to head, that can happen, that’s why they play the games.
You guys won some close games but these things even out.
“Excuse me, Coach Coughlin, I hate to break the news to you, but you have to give your Super Bowl trophy back.
“Why? Well, because most of the writers still don’t believe you’re better than New England. We know the Giants won the game ‘on the field,’ but it still doesn’t square with our idea of who’s best. C’mon, they almost went undefeated…”
Cliff,
I’m from Columbus & old enough to recall that time very well.
The other night, I saw a PBS special on Jimmy Carter & it took me right back to that era—Billy Beer, Miss Lillian watching wrestling, presidential aides wearing Levis, the Allman Brothers playing fund-raisers.
“Excuse me, Coach Coughlin, I hate to break the news to you, but you have to give your Super Bowl trophy back.
“Why? Well, because most of the writers still don’t believe you’re better than New England. We know the Giants won the game ‘on the field,’ but it still doesn’t square with our idea of who’s best. C’mon, they almost went undefeated…”
Well this is just dumb. We are talking about a ranking here. Again, am I to rank Ole Miss ahead of Florida because they beat them in the swamp? No, because Florida is much better.
C’mon Ubub, you are better than that.
Five of the eight position players starting for the Phils tonight are hitting under .200 in the series. And yet they lead 3-1.
…Willie Nelson toking up at the White House…
Robert,
My point is: Rankings are just dumb.
Ububba nailed it. They’re dumb.
You know how long I took on those rankings? Seconds. Certainly not a minute.
Stu, if Vanderbilt finishes with a better record than South Carolina, I’ll eat my hat.
South Carolina beat Georgia last year. Were we a better team? No.
Mississippi State beat Vanderbilt last week. Is MSU a better team? No. It’s the SEC, after all.
The last 3 teams that Pat Gillick has worked for haven’t been back to the postseason since he left.
McCarver’s surprised how awesome that is; Gillick really makes a difference.
Umm… or he’s leaving teams in bad positions, Tim.
Fact check? I have no idea if he left them in bad spots or not. Any jab I can take on McCarver, I’ll take it. Even unfounded.
I’ll amend that: IMO, rankings are fine & fun as long as they don’t actually determine which team is deemed ultimate champion.
The Philadelphia Phillies are gonna be NL champs. Met fans are groaning & my Pa. cousins are surely cracking open their Yueng-Lings about now.
Rankings suck, there should be a playoff system.
Has anyone seen the frenzy on that other MLB board concerning a possible Peavy/Braves trade? Most of the chatter seems to center around Hanson, Heyward and KJ. There has been some talk of including Gonzalez from SD and Kotchman from us…I kinda see that as a wash. Also being mentioned in Escobar for Greene to add some salary relief for the Pads…that thought made me vomit in my mouth a little bit….
“Martin grounds out to end 8th, Ramirez strained on first.” – ESPN score alert
There goes the shot at getting Manny in ’09.
I think ESPN is working on a 15 update error streak.
Wow, Rafael Furcal made 3 errors in the 5th inning. I think that officially counts as crapping the bed.
i will state gain…
if we give away Heyward for Peavy…or worse still, Heyward and Hanson for Peavy, I will think that this front office has taken the team back 5 years.
Get Dunn/Burrell, Lowe and Greinke (for Frenchy?).
if that doesn’t happen, just get a great Draft Pick and understand that this rebuilding is going to be longer than the 2 years they thought.
if we’re ultra-competitive in 2011 with all our OWN kids (Freeman, Heyward, Flowers, Tehan, Hanson, Medlin, Locke, Robrough, Schafer, Hernandez, etc.) then we will have $ remaining to find another big bat (Hanley will be a free agent in 2 years, fwiw). we’ll look alot like the Rays, who look alot like we looked back in the ’90s.
i would prefer a few down years of stocking the farm rather than betting the farm of a contentious elbow.
“There has been some talk of including Gonzalez from SD and Kotchman from us…I kinda see that as a wash.”
there is no wash between those two. Have you see Adrians numbers on that team and in that park?
I’m not too worried about giving up Hanson for Peavy, but wouldnt want to give up Heyward. Peavy is a top 3-5 pitcher in all of baseball at a discounted price. Elbow or not, we’d have him until the ’13 season. If there is a player to empty a farm for, its him. I dont see the Pads trading him though
From “Ask Bill” (I’m “Anonymous”)
Ever since 1996, I really enjoy watching Joe Torre lose. And since 2002, that happens a lot in the postseason.
Think that sentiment will be reflected on his Hall of Fame plaque?
I was listening to internet radio and suddenly recognized one of Parr’s 1986 songs: ‘Naughty, Naughty”. If we get another chance to vote on Parr’s nickname, I might nominate ‘Naughty Naughty’–which also reflects his last two appearences.
Otherwise, I can’t see the Padres trading Peavy and, yes, I would certainly part with Hanson should the opportunity present itself….
Since no one asked, here’s what I’d do if I were the Braves decision maker,:
1. Get Peavy, even if it took Hanson, Heywood and Schafer.
2. Sign Manny for up to five years at $25M per.
3. Use what’s left to get Lowe.
Nobody asked me, so you’re safe from my foolishness.
#2 – absolutely not
#3 – if you get Peavy and Manny thats $36 mil for next season and that takes up all the salary room that we’ve got, esp. after arb is given to all the current roster. No money now left for other pitchers or bench players
Manny’s an awesome hitter, but terrible on defense. When he gets bored, he doesnt hustle and becomes a problem. The guy needs to be a DH somewhere.
Could you imagine paying him $25 per for 6 years and then him demanding a trade after the 1st or 2nd year of the contract? or him just getting tired of baseball
We won’t give up Heyward to get Peavy. I would bet next month’s salary on that.
FWIW, the Escobar/Greene idea was being given serious play by DOB on the blog yesterday. I don’t love it, but if something like that would allow us to keep both Heyward and Hanson, I could probably get on board.
Coop @ #132, Seeing that you don’t know how to spell Jason Heyward’s name, your post loses all credibility.
#1. Hanson, Heyward and Schafer is MUCH >>>>>>>>>> than Peavy. I’m sorry, but Jurrjens is a Peavy waiting to happen.
Why trade all your players for a #1 when you can throw 5 years/130 Million at CC? Matter of fact, CC has shown that he can carry a team, whereas Peavy has been awesome on a pretty crappy team. If we’re gonna throw money around, sign CC for 5 years/130 million and trade some youngsters (Schafer, Medlin and Lilli) for Magglio or, dare i say it, Jermaine Dye? Then, with the remaining 10-13 million we got, go after Garland.
that’s an offseason where we get CC, Garland AND Magglio/Dye WITHOUT giving up our best prospects.
that’s what needs to be done. a #1 starter. a #4 starter and a LF that can hit and field (a least a bit).
balances the now without sacrificing the future.
I’ll defend Mac. I’ve been in person for a Vanderbilt win and a South Carolina win and South Carolina is a much better team. Vandy is not good but they do a great job of minimizing turnovers which lead to their early wins. Once they have some turnovers you see what happens and they lose to teams like Mississippi State. So for fun rankings South Carolina’s better but in the win column and what gets you to bowl games Vandy’s doing well and has earned a bowl game. But I wouldn’t be overly shocked if they didn’t win another game especially if they keep starting Nickson. Adams is by far the better qb and the reason they beat Auburn and Ole Miss. I take that back I’d be shocked if they didn’t win two more but there’s not a team that I’d be shocked that they lost to.
My team on the other hand is nothing but turnovers and is worse than both and doesn’t deserve to go to a bowl game.
All credibility? Damn. I think I’ll go eat worms.
Remember Chuck James’ first year? Some thought he’d at least be an effective middle of the rotation guy. He may well be someday, but I haven’t seen him pitch to his first year’s level in a while. Peavy’s a stud. Jurrjens may be, or he could be Chuck James from the right side. Time will tell.
However, I won’t bitch if we get CC, Garland and Maggs.
Now, can I have a smidgen of my credibility back?
chris // Oct 16, 2008 at 9:55 am:
Coop @ #132, Seeing that you don’t know how to spell Jason Heyward’s name, your post loses all credibility.
* * *
chris // Oct 15, 2008 at 12:28 pm
now, if we traded a package of Schafer, Flowers, Medlin, Locke and Lilli, I will think that Wren is as close to Schuerholtz as possible.
Come on, man. If a single spelling error disqualified one from being credible, nobody here would be worth reading.
Coop’s great. I love his contributions. (Although I disagree strongly with this one.) No need to flame.
I called Kerry Ligtenberg “Lightenberg” for a year and a half, and I don’t know how many times I misspelled “Schuerholz”.
jorgebacca,
I don’t think they are, but South Carolina may be “better,” whatever that means. They can have their spot in the power rankings, and I’ll take our spot in the SEC East standings.
Vandy is not good…
False. We’re not elite, but we’re clearly good. Again, offense is not the only measure of a good team. Turnovers, sacks, *special teams* (which everyone seems to ignore), penalties, scoring defense, etc. We’re quite obviously a “good” team.
But I wouldn’t be overly shocked if they didn’t win another game especially if they keep starting Nickson. Adams is by far the better qb and the reason they beat Auburn and Ole Miss.
Adams has been named the starter this week. You’re right about Auburn, but what exactly did Adams do to beat Ole Miss? We win that game with either QB, seeing as how that position had almost nothing to do with the victory.
I take that back I’d be shocked if they didn’t win two more but there’s not a team that I’d be shocked that they lost to.
I’ll be pretty shocked if we lose to Duke, but you’re generally right about there being no sure things on the schedule.
I sort of pity the fans of the other lesser SEC teams. If they’re not better than Vanderbilt at sports anymore (see also: basketball and baseball), they don’t have much to hang their respective hats on. Gotta be rough.
Rany Jazayerli is my arch nemesis, spelling-wise.
“Francoeur” is frequently butchered. (Insert joke here.)
Maybe I should put a list of “commonly used and misspelled names” on the sidebar.
Chris, there is a slight problem with your scenario in 136. We have around $40 mil this offseason. If we trade for Magglio, he’s @ $18 mil next season and they wont eat any of that contract. Signing CC for $26 per is a bad idea in my opinion. With those two additions @$44 mil we dont have any money for arb eligible players and we’ll still be lacking 2 starters.
Be sure to include “Mac Thomason” for everyone who reads that ‘a’ as a ‘p’.
Good thing Andres Galarraga’s no longer on the team. He was always my spelling disaster.
FYI from TSN:
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Washington Nationals sent outfielder Ryan Langerhans and right-hander Levale Speigner outright to Triple-A Syracuse on Wednesday after they cleared waivers.
Credibility’s no great loss for a career civil servant. After I retired in 2004, I spent two years licking out stables before I got my self-respect back. Chris didn’t rile me up. I might not be able to spell shit, but i recognize it when I step in it.
@146- Same here.
Stu I think you are confusing good coaching with being a great team. I don’t think anyone could argue that Johnson’s coaching a great game right now and that’s what penalties and such are.
I wouldn’t be overly confident on Duke either. Cutcliffe’s got them playing a lot better. They beat Virginia 35-3 a couple weeks ago. Virginia followed that up by beating early season darling East Carolina bad. You can’t play too much of the who beat who game but it does make you realize that Duke’s better than they argued in their lawsuit with Louisville.
I understand you want to defend your team but you really don’t have to. I already admitted y’all were better than my guys. They are having a great season where everything is just kind of falling into place for them. Catching people at the right time, maximizing turnovers, etc. like State did last year. Have fun and enjoy it like I did in 2003.
Wholers.
Stu I think you are confusing good coaching with being a great team.
Again, I never said we were great. I’m just saying we’re every bit as good as the South Carolinas (and Ole Misses) of the world, and we beat those teams.
Our talent is undervalued. And people continue to ignore the statistical areas in which we excel. Why is it a good team if you have a strong offense, but it’s only good “coaching” if you have a strong defense and special teams?
PS: I know Duke’s improved, and like I said, it’s no sure thing. Believe me, I keep tabs on every team on our schedule. We’re still more talented and playing them in Nashville, though. We really should beat them.
I already said twice you were better than Ole Miss.
I’m aware. The original power poll (Mac’s) which started this debate, however, listed us behind both you and South Carolina. That’s why I listed it parenthetically.
Interesting piece on the physics of why a head-first slide is faster than a feet first one:
http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/12487.html?emailID=21203
If we ever have to fight advanced aliens, I nominate Bobby Johnson for general because nobody does more with less. But I think South Carolina’s better than Vandy right now.
I’d put Ole Miss in the bottom four. If you can’t protect the football your not a good team despite whatever else you do. Beating Florida was a fluke.
And its not a matter of offense either. I wasn’t as impressed with Vandy’s defense as South Carolina’s. I thought they had more athletes. Plus Vandy gives up a ton of yards and they’re ranked tenth in total defense right now. They just manage to get a lot of turnovers and a lot of them aren’t forced turnovers. But it doesn’t matter how you win as long as you win. It just keeps me from saying I’d bet a lot of money on them in any game. Wouldn’t surprise me to see them lose every game or win every game. Well except Florida and Georgia. That’d surprise me.
Lets get back to baseball because I imagine everyone else is bored with the conversation.
I’d trade Hanson for Peavy. I’d hate doing it because I’ve seen him here in Mississippi a bunch of times and he looks great. But I’ve learned with Chuck James and JoJo, looking great in Mississippi as a pitcher doesn’t mean much. Maybe because of the park I don’t know.
Everyone has weaknesses. Alabama lacks depth and can be had in the second half, particularly the third quarter. Florida’s offense has periodic red zone issues and last week was basically the first time they’ve gotten a traditional running game going in three years. Georgia commits obscene numbers of penalties. LSU’s defense is less than the sum of its parts.
I would like to say otherwise, but I’m still afraid that JPW at Alabama is still not a top-tier qb. He didn’t exactly set the world on fire against UK and Tulane. He’s still prone to off-days. As for LSU, I don’t think their QB situation is championship caliber at this point either.
On to Braves baseball – IMO, the only untouchable in our farm system is Heyward – especially if we could get Peavy.
JPW is a better quarterback than Jay Barker was until his senior year.
If we ever have to fight advanced aliens, I nominate Bobby Johnson for general because nobody does more with less.
LOL
Plus Vandy gives up a ton of yards and they’re ranked tenth in total defense right now.
(1) Points allowed are more important than yardage allowed;
(2) Again, turnovers are relevant to the discussion of defenses;
(3) Part (not all) of the yardage issue has to do with the schedule we’ve played. Not too many teams in the conference have gone up against a non-conference offense like Rice’s.
They just manage to get a lot of turnovers and a lot of them aren’t forced turnovers.
Actually, a lot of them are. The punt-off-the-guy’s-leg in the South Carolina game and possibly the end-of-the-game-heave-interception in the Ole Miss game are the only ones that come to mind that weren’t forced.
It just keeps me from saying I’d bet a lot of money on them in any game.
Well, we’re (I believe) the only team in the country that’s 5-1 against the spread this season, so you’ve missed out on some income so far.
I guess there’s really no point in arguing against people who aren’t willing to see a difference in this year’s Vanderbilt team compared with those of others. The talent and depth are legitimately SEC-caliber, which means we’re right up there, athlete-wise, with the other lesser schools. Which, when combined with good coaching, results in victories over those similarly-talented programs.
Anyway, I won’t say anything else about it. I’m looking forward to the game against UGA, though.
*those of other years
Total offense and defense is like walks and strikeouts for pitchers. Bad peripherals.
And I suppose turnovers are like home runs allowed. Vanderbilt is good in that area, but so was Kevin Gryboski.
I guess the main difference is that Grybo isn’t 2-0 against a “better” South Carolina squad over the past two seasons. 😉
Heh. If South Carolina was good at limiting turnovers, we’d be 7-0.
155 — hilarious.
BYU finally plays a decent team tonight (on the road, and on a short week no less). Even though most won’t be able to see the game (stupid mountain west commissioner)… cheer them along. BCS busters are good.
Not disagreeing, but why do you think walks and strikeouts are poor indicators of performance?
I meant that they are good indicators of performance. If a team ranks low in defense and offense, it’s bad peripherals. Like lots of walks and few strikeouts.
He means that low Ks and high BBs (like low yardage gained and high yardage allowed) are predictors of bad future performance.
I don’t disagree with that, but you have to consider special teams, too.
Getting back to baseball, I just read this again…
Matter of fact, CC has shown that he can carry a team, whereas Peavy has been awesome on a pretty crappy team.
I don’t get it. Peavy’s teams have made the playoffs twice (not counting the 1-game playoff with Colorado last season), compared with CC’s three appearances. The Pads haven’t won a postseason series with Peavy, and the Indians won 1 with CC. Neither has been good in the postseason (12.10 ERA in 9 2/3 innings for Peavy, 7.92 ERA in 25 innings for CC).
Sabathia’s record is slightly more impressive (or slightly less unimpressive, if you want to look at it that way), but we’re hardly comparing John Smoltz to Rick Mahler here.
I don’t know. The Pads definitely weren’t great, but those less-than-great San Diego teams wouldn’t have been anywhere near the post-season without Peavy.
What does that have to do with CC? This being the political season, I’ll call that a “false equivalency.”
True, Peavy wasn’t good in his 2 post-season starts and he wasn’t good in the playoff game vs. the Rockies. But I wouldn’t go crazy about that. (Turns out, he pitched his first playoff game vs. StL with a broken rib.)
He can pitch for me & I’ll take my chances with a talent like that in the post-season.
There seems to be some chatter about his elbow. Rumor or real problem?
Thanks.
I’d trade Heyward for Peavy. Absolutely.
Peavy is a Cy Young award winner and a proven ace. He also has four full years left on his below-market contract. A trade with the centerpiece being a minor league outfielder, who may or may not be good someday years from now, for Jake Peavy seems a steal to me.
I’m sorry, but Jurrjens is a Peavy waiting to happen.
Yeah, uh…no. Something tells me Jair Jurrjens will never win the Cy Young award unanimously.
Let’s get to the playoffs first and then worry about whether Peavey is any good there. Peavey is probably a lot more realistic for the Braves than CC.
Also, Mark Bradley brought up the idea of Manny to the Braves. I wouldn’t object to it, but I don’t see why Manny would have any interest in the Braves unless they paid him a premium. Let’s face it, Atlanta isn’t exactly a center of Latino culture and the team isn’t that good anymore. I wouldn’t want to go the A-Rod/Rangers route where you have to overpay to get the player.
Anyone else see this?
http://tinyurl.com/4f7avz
Specifically, #1 under “worst”.
Thank goodness no Braves official knows what RCAA are, or they might look at that list and see
Martin Prado 9
Kelly Johnson 8
and then draw conclusions I wouldn’t want them to draw.
#175, yeah, but you just know Manny would love One-Tweezy. Can’t we get our Atlanta celebs to make a pitch?
If the Braves were an APBA team that only existed in Windows or on playing cards, I’d definitely try to draft Manny as my ’09 LF.
But reality doesn’t give us a sniff.
@178,
AAR,
Pardon me but I have not been to Atlanta in years. What is that reference?
One-Tweezy, better known as 112, is — or at least was — the hottest African-American club in Atlanta. It’s namedropped in a bunch of songs and music videos.
Something that surprised me.
Anderson 2
Blanco – 10.
I see that Corey Patterson finished 2nd worst. Several posters here wanted him last year. I believe he’s available again — any takers???
Absolutely.
Think the D-Rays would still be interested in an Escobar-centered package for Baldelli? Our CF concerns would be over!
update on farm guys…Flowers is impressing
http://tinyurl.com/4mqb8e
Peanut states that Schafer has legitimized himself as a top pitching prospect. Yeah, Im guessing he screwed that one up
Uh-oh, a Bowman article hyping Braves’ prospects. The Peavy rumor has gotta be true now.
Funny how when the Braves are rumored to be “in” or somebody (most recently with Teixeira in July 2007 and Baldelli in December 2006), there always appears a Bowman article talking about how great certain Braves’ prospects are. The “Elvis Andrus: the next Derek Jeter?” one around the Teixeira trade is the most memorable.
Hype it up, baby.
During the Merrill/Showalter Era in New York, I recall the bombardment of glowing reports on Sam Militello, Scott Kamieniecki & Sterling Hitchcock.
For the Yanks’ sake, at least Hitchcock fetched Tino Martinez & Jeff Nelson.
Also for the Yanks’ sake, he dominated us (for the Pads) in ’98.
Mac
On your point about JPW. I don’t disagree, but I don’t know if JPW would have been much better than Barker if he had to run Mal Moore’s offense. Of course, Bama’s defense is good, but it’s definitely not the same style of play both offensively and defensively that we had under Stallings.
I still say that JPW has the potential to be a weakness – I hope it’s not the case or we can overcome it with other things.
I’m sure many of you here would not object if Peanut starting writing glowing articles hyping Francoeur – if only an owner would believe them.
we are averaging 220+ yards rushing right now. If that can continue then JPW doesnt have to win games for us, he just needs to make sure not to lose them. With that type of rushing it really opens up the passing lanes and you dont have to force anything. I think JPW has done a very solid job for Bama while he’s been there and the stats prove it. He’s had some bad moments at some bad times, but he’s a leader out there
Im glad to seeing Bama get back to the old “power” running football. Coffee has emerged and Ingram is going to be a beast and their potential recruit Trent Richardson might be better than both of these guys
I remember that Hitchcock game. Hard to believe that’s 10 years ago already.
The problem is, Bowman’s glowing Francoeur stories would likely be to sway over Braves’ fans into accepting him as the team’s starting right fielder next season rather than to try and make other teams want him more.
Hopefully this will work. A behind the scenes look at an Auburn Bd of Trustees mtg.
194 –
That is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen.
Thank you, kind sir.
I must be getting old.
Go Rays!
ugh. BYU is getting worked. Can’t decide which is worse… the play calling (trying to run outside or from the shotgun when the o-line is way bigger and we’re way slower than them — just run it up the gut from under center!) or Hall just staring at his receivers. Nevermind about cheering for BCS busters.
Article on ESPN about Peavy speculation.
http://tinyurl.com/6zwuwv
Tampa’s making quite a statement. After getting shutout in Game 1, they’ve scored 38 runs in 4 games.
DOB on the Peavy chatter:
A person familiar with the talks said the Braves and Padres have discussed a potential blockbuster trade that would bring the Alabama native to Atlanta for a package that would include at least three Braves prospects.
…
Five-tool outfielder Jason Heyward and 17-year-old pitcher Julio Teheran are considered close to untouchable prospects, and pitcher Tommy Hanson and slugging first baseman Freddie Freeman might not be far behind in terms of being off limits.
The Braves also would like to keep elite center-field prospects Jordan Schafer and Gorkys Hernandez, possibly envisioning a future outfield of Heyward and Schafer flanking speedy Hernandez.
It remains to be seen whether the Padres would deal Peavy without getting at least one of those prospects.
The Braves could offer a package built around a middle infielder — Yunel Escobar or Kelly Johnson? — and prospects from among catcher Tyler Flowers, pitchers Charlie Morton and Kris Medlen, or others.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/10/16/braves_peavy_trade.html
There’s just no way we get Peavy without giving up any of those guys. The Dodgers are throwing around names like Kemp and Kershaw, and we’re not willing to include Gorkys Hernandez? At least one of these reports is way, way off.
Would love to swing that deal without giving up Yunel or, of course, taking back Greene.
C’mon Rays, break their hearts…
No Khalil, unless it’s for Francoeur.
At this point, reading the rumors about Yunel and Schafer, I’d gladly give up Hanson if it meant keeping those two.
Flowers, Medlen, Morton, Reyes, Gorkys?
csg, I’ve got a plate full of poo you can have for the low low price of $1,000.00. Why not throw in Zombie Caminiti while we’re at it? Or Ron Gant’s knee and Otis Nixon’s nostrils, Hudson’s elbow, Smoltz’s shoulder, Chipper’s foot, other foot, quad, other quad, knee, thumb, other thumb, Terry Pendleton, Hank Aaron’s respect for Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens’ desire to play baseball, Bobby Cox’s bullpen managing ability and Frank Wren’s general managing ability.
That ought to be enough to get Jake F-ing Peavy.
Stu…dude, you’ve GOT to be kidding…
Yunel over Hanson???????
Flowers, Medlen, Yunel and Reyes SHOULD get it done.
We could then kick the tires of our old friend Furcal
The Padres are not going to trade Jake Peavy for Yunel Escobar and a gaggle of mediocre prospects.
Get real people.
I’d give up Hanson before I gave up Yunel AND Schafer.
Wow, TB really screwed the pooch today.
Yeah, who wants a guy who, when healthy, can easily clear .300 with decent gap power, and who is also the best defensive player in the National League, and who will be making, what, $1 million this year?
Yunel will almost surely be a championship-level ballplayer for the next five years or so. As much as I want to get Peavy, I really hope Yunel isn’t involved.
There’s just no way we get Peavy without giving up any of those guys. The Dodgers are throwing around names like Kemp and Kershaw, and we’re not willing to include Gorkys Hernandez? At least one of these reports is way, way off.
Seriously.
If O’Brein is right, and the Dodgers rumors are correct, than we might as well just all forget about Peavy. The Braves are not going to pry him away in this market without giving up anyone who is, you know, good. I don’t care that Peavy is an Alabama native or that the Dodgers are in the same division as the Padres.
To get something (Peavy), you have to give up something. Apparently the Braves think their scrap will suffice.
I’m sorry but a package of Brent Lillibridge, Martin Prado and Jo-Jo Reyes ain’t getting the Braves Peavy…it wouldn’t even get them Gil Meche.
Blasted Rays… I wanted them to finish the deal last night, but didn’t stay up to see them lose (when I conked out they had just given up the tying run).
I’m interested in the Peavy talks, but until we know more…
strangest line in the DOB piece:
“His contract is considered to be less than free-agent market value for a pitcher of his ilk. ”
his ilk? While strictly defined it works, isn’t that more commonly used in a pejorative way?
New thread.
Dan @ 174…
i’m assuming that you know Jair more than others, seeing that he’s a young twenty something…
when i watched peavy early in his career, i never once thought he would win the cy young. i thought he was good, mind you, but the fact that he has exploded like he has is a testament to hard work and good coaching.
i could argue that jair has better STUFF than peavy and his motion seems more natural. he can, and probably will, pitch for another 15 years.
with Cy Young Possible peripherals.
i am assuming you think that trading Heyward for Peavy is worth it. and, ummmm….something tells me that the something that tells you Jair wont ever win the Cy Young unanimously is pretty full of #@$%.
@211…
nobody EVER would say that package would get Peavy. the one that would appease most braves and padres fans would have to be:
G. Hernandez/Schafer (i would prefer Schafer) and C. Medlin to start with.
gotta throw in two Major League ready players:
KJ and Morton/Reyes (who, fwiw, could turn into a nice #3 in that huge place they call a ball park)
a package of:
Schafer
C. Medlin
KJ
Morton
would probably be a good starting place. if they wanted to give us Greene and his nasty contract (we could move him to 2B) then we could also throw in a player with some Upside like Locke.
I agree with Dan: why should the Padres trade for anything less than an elite prospect. It would be great if the Braves could part with Schafer and lesser prospects to get Peavy, but without Heyward or Freeman or Hanson, it wouldn’t make any sense….