Braves 9, Cardinals 4

ESPN – Cardinals vs. Braves – Box Score – July 31, 2008

So, Mike Hampton still hasn’t won or pitched well in three years, but he has doubled and driven in two runs. And Clint Sammons has, in two games, only one fewer hit than Corky Miller has had all year. Go figure.

The Braves fell behind 2-0 in the first on a double by, of course, Pujols. But Infante hit a solo homer in the second, and Hampton doubled in Jeffy with two out to tie it. Hampton gave up a run in the fourth, but Sammons singled in a run in the bottom of the inning, and Hampton drove in a run with a groundout to take the lead. He couldn’t hold it, and the Cards tied it in the bottom of the inning, his last.

In the sixth, Sammons officially became more productive than Miller has been all year, hitting a two-run homer to take the lead. They got two more runs in the seventh on doubles by Kotsay and Infante, and Escobar singled in Sammons in the eighth for the final score.

Bennett pitched two innings for the win. Soriano and Gonzalez finished up because, hey, why not? It’s not like this team hasn’t already blown one game pitched by Hampton with a 9-4 lead… Kotchman is still hitless as a Brave. After his early hit, Francoeur, who sucks, wound up 1-4 with two strikeouts.

67 thoughts on “Braves 9, Cardinals 4”

  1. No worries, Corky will be back in the lineup tonight!

    Seriously, I’m too lazy to look it up, but I wonder how many games we’ve actually won this year that Corky has been in. Especially games that Corky has been in that McCann wasn’t involved in somehow (I know, there aren’t too many of those…)

  2. So I wake up this morning, checked to see what deals went down yesterday, and…what?

    OK, so there was the Manny trade, and the Griffey trade, and, well Arthur Rhoades was traded. That’s it? I just don’t get it. Are GM’s that afraid to pull the trigger? I mean we couldn’t get a A-ball pitcher for Ohman? Are GM’s afraid of being on the wrong end of a Bagwell/Andersen trade to make a move to win?

    Sure the playoffs are a crapshoot, but geez, if you think you have a chance to win it all, make your best effort to win it all. I mean, nobody needed a good LH reliever (Ohman)? Nobody needed a good bat off the bench (Kotsay)?

  3. I estimate that having Corky as opposed to Sammons (and I know Sammons is not a good ML hitter) has cost us 3 games. If those had occurred before the “dark weekend in Philly”, the mental boost would have saved the two big lead games. Then, on Monday, we would have awaken as buyers. But, would we have messed up once we found out about Hudson?

    One goal for next year. Avoid all black holes. No Woodwards. No Corky’s. Second goal. Limt the “substantially useless” like Gotay, Norton.

  4. I don’t blame Gotay and Norton. Poor Norton is a DH, at best, and we have been forced to play him in left field.

  5. I can understand the Braves wanting to have Sammons play in Richmond and get 4 ABs every day. What I don’t get is how they can’t find a backup catcher who can spell McCann once a week and hit something like .225/.275/.400. We have multiple starting pitchers who are better hitters than Corky and they’d probably field catcher better than him too. If they’re going to insist on having a no hit, good defense catcher as backup, at least get one who actually has good defense.

  6. Norton is a pretty good PH, thus a fine bench player. But if we carry 13(!) pitchers, he is forced into the field waaay too often and his limitations are exposed.

    That’s been problem #1 throughout the whole season and Mac has mentioned it countless times: poor roster construction. Norton, Infante, Blanco, Diaz. That’s the makings of a kick-ass bench. But they are not good regulars.

  7. Wow…just looked at the box and Francouer left 4 on base again with 2 k’s..but if you look inside the numbers, he has a four game hitting streak!!…He is smoking….

  8. So here’s a question: if Frenchy goes 1-4 with 3 K’s and 5 LOB every day for 57 games, is it a great accomplishment?

  9. While Gotay is just awful, I really don’t have a problem with Norton as a PH. A switch hitter with really solid plate discipline and decent pop at times is a nice thing to have.

  10. Frank Wren was just interviewed on 680 in Atlanta, followed by one on 790. Some of the things I got out of the interviews.

    Tex – Wren said they knew after he refused the contract in Spring training that he would only be a Brave this year. Tex’s and Boras’ view are that Tex is one of the best players in baseball (elite $), but the Braves see him as a very good player. Contract offer would have made him one of the richest players in baseball, more than Pujols gets paid. Wren did not say it would make him the highest paid player on the Braves, though that is possible.

    On the trade, he said that the D-Backs would never give up Conor Jackson or any other significant players. They don’t have enough depth after other trades. Kotchman was the best guy available. Dodgers would not give up any of their young players of value and would require the Braves to pay most or all of Tex’s salary. Wren also looked for a good young starter who could replace Hudson next year. There were none.

    Gotta go. I’ll post more of what I remember shortly.

  11. When ever I hear Norton, I imagine Bobby Cox sounding like Jackie Gleason when he pops up, yelling Noorrton!

    I don’t know what blowing up the team means. You make trades to improve the team, not just to make trades, unless you are the Marlins and have to dump salary. I can’t see the Braves contending in 2009 and maybe not even 2010 but any trades have to be done with a plan in mind, not just getting rid of everyone. Except Corky. And he can’t be Crash Davis because Crash Davis could at least hit in the minors.

  12. OK, I’ll agree. We’ve beaten Frenchy into the ground. He sucks. We all know it. But we all hope he gets better.

    So here’s a new line of thought. I was reading the deadline deal thread over at Primer and there was obviously a lot of Dodger talk and it got me to thinking. Apparently the Dodgers are strapped for cash and I bet they’d really like to extend Manny.

    If you’re willing to concede ’09, would you take on the remainder of Andruw’s contract if it netted something valuable. Say Matt Kemp? The Braves have money to spend next year, but I don’t see alot to spend it on that we won’t get outbid on. So why not take a bad contract to get a good, cheap player?

    Pure speculation, I know, but it takes my mind off this lost season.

  13. Mac,
    In a previous thread you said that you didn’t think that keeping Corky on the roster was necessarily Bobby Cox’s decision. Can you explain?

  14. The general manager decides who’s on the roster, not the manager. Now, Bobby might say to Wren that he really wants Corky, but there is no way to know that.

  15. It is just hard for me to believe that if Cox says he doesn’t want Corky that Wren says, “So what, you’re stuck with him.”

  16. @11–me neither–Jeffy sucks–I was being sarcastic

    Re Corky on the roster–Wren and/or Cox might have thought that Sammons needed to play everyday. I have no beef with that decision–they’re probably correct. However, I am bugged by keeping Corky over Pena who would have produced more than twice as much offense as Miller. At this point the difference probably doesn’t matter that much but with all the one run losses another few runs here and there might have mattered.

    Who gets bumped from the roster to make room for Chucky? McC to DL? Sammons back to Richmond? Corky to oblivion? (Hey one can hope.) A pitcher?

    BTW, I’m headed to the Ted Sunday. Anyone have any good suggestions for parking etc.?

  17. To be fair, Corky posted almost exactly the offensive stats I listed as desirable last year (.259/.310/.444), so it wasn’t completely ridiculous to bring him back. I guess what is really hard to understand is what the Braves had against Brayan Pena and why they threw him away after his injury. If Pena was still around, they could have sent Miller down to Richmond when it became clear his offense had disappeared. They also way overrate Corky’s defense. He does have a good % at throwing out baserunners, but otherwise he seems below average.

  18. It’s good to see that the “Tex thinks he’s elite, but he’s just very good” line that we’ve been hearing is straight from the Braves talking points. What a bunch of PR bullshit. Yeah, and the scouts wanted JS, jr, and the GM had nothing to do with it.

    I expect we’ll hear more “we offered him more than Pujols” too. That’s a canard. Pujols signed after only three years of service. The Cardinals could have paid him a lot less, but instead chose to trade some cheap early years for some cheap free agent years. This way Pujols is insured against the risk of long-term injury occurring before free agency. Tex has chosen a different strategy. Their contracts are not directly comparable.

    Pujols is a better player than Tex. Tex would agree with that. Tex is very close to free agency and isn’t willing to trade off his free agent worth to insure against risk. If Pujols became a free agent tomorrow, he’s get a contract approaching, if not exceeding, $30 million/year.

  19. More from Wren:

    Tex – There was more discussion as to why Tex was not viewed as an elite, “cornerstone” player. Wren said he did dominate night in and night out for a season like Pujols. He mentioned Kotchman converting on more of his RISP opportunities.

    On Francoeur – he said Frenchy privately regrets the comments he made after being demoted. Stated softly. The comments are quite common to young players sent down and “not all that bad” relatively. Just the press does not broadcast what most demotees have to say. Said he believes Francoeur is getting his swing back and the Braves did not discuss trading him. They think he will be more like the player of the last two years than 2008.

    On a potential Chipper trade if the rebuild is going to take longer – he said no way. Chipper wants to retire as a Brave and the org wants to keep him all the way. Like his defense. Should have won a Gold Glove last year. Best hitter in the League this year.

    On Hudson – shocked by the news after Huddy dominated in his last start. Shame that he will be out until late in ’09. Wren does not think we are in a full rebuild. He intends to add a top flight starter naxt year, but sounds very doubtful it will be through free agency. Sounds like they already have several trade targets in mind. Mentioned Jurrjens performing as an ace and Campillo returning.

    Kotsay – the Braves have talked with him a lot about a trade. Think he would be someone moved through waiver wire. The Braves may even want to keep him next year. Veteran leadership.

  20. “It is just hard for me to believe that if Cox says he doesn’t want Corky that Wren says, “So what, you’re stuck with him.”

    I agree. In fairness to Corky, he did look better last year. But so did Frenchy, awww man I did it again.

    If CC and Sheets don’t lead the Brewers to the playoffs…how much does their value decrease? I imagine with CC it doesn’t b/c he is an innings eater and is a former CY Young award winner, but Sheets….

  21. To be fair, in the 3 years prior to last year’s break-out 7-27 year for Corky, he was 1-55! He had a 1-39 year for the Reds, one year (really, you can look him up). He was a proven inept hitter, and there is no excuse to have put him on the roster; none.

    Now that as a franchise we don’t have the luxary of rolling out 3 HOF pitchers every series (which fueled the 14 year streak), we have to do the “little things” right if we are going to win.

    The Corky Miller decision was crap, plain and simple- he was a lifetime sub .200 hitter with no power. It was either vanity or laziness on our part to not fill the spot with someone competant (again, the kind of decsion that just didn’t matter when you could roll out Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz every series), especially at catcher, where your back-up gets a lot of AB’s.

    This is exactly the kind of stuff that worries me about Bobbie Cox, going forward (assuming it was his decision). He could get away with stupid roster decisions when he had a HOF rotation, and we still won (but it wasn’t Bobby throwing those innings). Bobby doesn’t have the luxury of putting his own butt-boys on the roster and winning any more; can he adjust?

    Who were bigger fools, the Reds for letting Corky bat 39 times, in a 1-39 year, or us, for letting him bat 54 times, in a 5-54 year?

  22. Ugh. Enough “veteran leadership”. Get good younger players who stay healthy all season not declining, aging veterans.

    I’m not sure what the Braves are thinking with not trading Ohman. Maybe they plan to offer him arbitration and hope he accepts? He should be affordable with all the money coming off the books from Hampton, Tex, Glavine, Kotsay, etc.

  23. He won’t accept arbitration. He stands to earn a three-year, $12 million deal from someone.

  24. On Francoeur – he said Frenchy privately regrets the comments he made after being demoted.

    Yet, publicly he does not back down and reiterates his stance when asked.

    They think he will be more like the player of the last two years than 2008.

    So do I. But he wasn’t very good the past two years.

    From his actions this year, I don’t get the impression that Frank Wren is really running the show. He’s Philip Tattaglia. The question I have is who is Barzini in this organization.

  25. Are you saying Frank Wren is a pimp? Who will it be that comes to Frenchy to try and facilitate the peace between he and Wren? To tell you the truth, If they did to our roster what happened at the end of that movie, it may not be such a bad way to start over and rebuild.

  26. JC, do you really even need to ask? It’s gotta be JS……I would assume that he saw the writing on the wall last year and decided to get out of the direct line of fire by bringing in Wren. That way he can save face when things keep going downhill.

    If everyone here was being objective about the state of the Braves right now and heading into ’09 and ’10, you can project that the best the Braves are going to be able to do is stay at .500

    Look at it this way….even if:

    1) we sign a bonafide ace (like Sabathia or Sheets), there will be enough times that Bobby’s bullpen mismanagement will blow games for them (how many f*@#ing times did we see that happen with Smoltz the last 2-1/2 years?)

    2) we sign a big outfield bat (like Dunn or Burrell), will that make up for positions (CF, RF, and league-avg. 1B) which we know will be sub-par, at least until Schaefer/Heyward/Freeman potentially make it to the bigs?

    With all of this, you’re still looking at all the games that Chipper will be hurt, McCann will need a blow, and Cox’s small-ball approach will kneecap our chances at getting close wins. Our 1-run record this year is really bad, but I don’t think it’s that fluky. We’re in need of an organizational overhaul.

    And I’m not talking about blowing up the team….I’m talking about a change in philosophy on how we approach the game. Look at how the Cubs have changed since Piniella got there. While Dusty Baker was there (he’s the anti-Bobby when it comes to pitching management), the Cubs would find ways to lose, because they couldn’t take care of business when fundamentals needed to be executed. That was the first thing Piniella addressed when he arrived, and besides having some phenomenal starting pitching this year, is a big reason the Cubs are in 1st place.

    OK, that was my two cents’ worth for awhile, so I guess I felt it should be more like five cents.

  27. “From his actions this year, I don’t get the impression that Frank Wren is really running the show. He’s Philip Tattaglia. The question I have is who is Barzini in this organization.”

    It’s hard to tell…I don’t think it’s JS. I think he has pretty much checked out. A lot of this has BCox written all over it.

  28. “And I’m not talking about blowing up the team….I’m talking about a change in philosophy on how we approach the game.”


  29. I’m not sure if it’s JS or not. I heard a radio interview where he implied that Frank always consulted him for his “advice.” But, I’m not sure how much power JS really had.

    Something went wrong with the Jeffy demotion/promotion. I believe that someone higher up stepped in, who was not involved in the initial decision. There are a few guys above Wren in the organization, and who knows how Liberty governs the team, so there are several potential culprits.

  30. I have trouble believing Wren wasn’t consulting all of the higher-ups before deciding to demote Francoeur. Now, maybe one of those higher-ups didn’t like how it happened or got cold feet and then insisted he be brought back up, but I seriously doubt Wren did that—sending The Face Of The Franchise to the minor leagues—without having it approved by everyone it needed to be approved by initially.

  31. Terry McGuirk, potentially. I can absolutely see him undermining Wren on Francoeur because of his fan-favorite status. And I can absolutely see him refusing to sign free agents over the offseason. And I think that a bunch of the crap that happened with JS over the final three years or so is actually McGuirk’s fault and that we blamed too much of it on JS. In fact, there’s a very good chance that JS retired because of it.

  32. Well, there may have been some consultation. But, I don’t think Delta called Frank Wren about its demoted spokesman. (Of course, this is all just a guess. And we are left to guess after receiving from such an unbelievable explanation from the organization.)

  33. Although admittedly, drafting JS Jr. is 100% JS’ fault. So he’s obviously not blameless.

  34. Francoeur should still be in the minors. And I agree that the team needs a new philosphy. I don’t feel there has been much shift from the days where we could just afford whatever we wanted. We obviously are more fiscally responsible, but I havent seen a shift in the sense of realizing you can’t win every year with half the budget of your competitors, so you have to bide your time and pounce on the opportunities when the situation is favorable to put together a winner.

    Say what you want about this team, no one in the front office should have thought that this was one of those favorable years, when all our starting pitchers were over 30 and 2 over 40.

    We’re in the unfortunate position now that so many football teams find themselves in. In football, you rarely see a team with an awesome defense and offense at the same time, its usually one or the other, but when they put both together, they have a great run. We’ve got a good core of young hitters that can be built upon and supplemented through free agency, but we’re not going to put together a championship caliber rotation for probably 5-10 years. Its not going to match up with the prime years of this team’s batting order.

  35. Well, if Wren is Tattaglia, we need Michael Corleone to take him out because I don’t like what I’m hearing. First, the Braves are being completely disingenous with respect to Teixera because they knew damn well that he wasn’t going to sign in spring training. In fairness, I doubt there was anyway he would sign anyway, but it’s dishonest to say we tried and they didn’t take. If you really wanted to try, you would have gone to Tex later in teh season and try again. They clearly didn’t want to sign him and I suspect the offer in spring training was simply so they could say they tried. It’s obvious to anyone with a lick of sense (meaning not Steve Phillips) that Tex is much better and always will be than Casey Kotchman even if he didn’t produce like some (probably unrealistically) expected. My guess is this might have come down from McGuirk because, as much as the Braves deny it, Liberty doesn’t want to spend big bucks.

    As for Frenchy, I hope Wren is just saying this for public consumption. If this is how he and the organization really think, we might be seeing the 80s again.

    But, as for Corky, maybe in general teh GM decides who is on teh roster but here, you have a star manager who has been around 20 years vs. a rookie GM. I would bet this is Bobby’s call.

  36. If no one was willing to offer at least a C+ prospect for Ohman, I don’t really see any reason not to hold on to him. The Braves will surely offer him arbitration, which he surely won’t accept, since the result would be a salary about half the size he could get on the FA market and a contract about 2 years shorter. And with the year he’s turned in in 2008, I’d be shocked if he didn’t achieve at B-level prospect status. Just comparing him with Mahay, Ohman’s last three years look a helluva lot like Mahay’s.

  37. Also, why is it dishonest to offer Tex a $15-17M annual deal and conclude, after he declines, that he didn’t want to play for the Braves more than anyone else?

    And I don’t buy the “ask him again later” argument. Why would Tex take a deal 3 months into the season that he didn’t want before it started? That’s dumb.

    And for whatever it’s worth, depending on what you think a “super-star” is, I would probably not put Tex in that category. He’s a top-30 position player in MLB, but he’s not a top-10 guy. Maybe he would be if he was a 3B or a CF or SS or something. He’s in the Carlos Lee class for me; probably a step above or so, but not a super-star; the 2nd best player in your lineup (position-adjusted, of course) on a mediocre team or the 3rd-best on a really good one.

  38. Ironically, he was only the third-best hitter in our lineup, and we were nowhere near “really good.”

  39. Remember when Damon Hollins was dubbed the ‘Mayor of Richmond’ after spending years roaming the outfield for the R-Braves? I have a great marketing idea. Jeff Francouer as ‘Commissioner of Gwinnett.’ Send him down next spring and leave him there for nine years.

  40. Casey Kotchman sported a .774 OPS this year for the Angels. He has added an 0-9 to his numbers. The lowest OPS for a national league 1B with a qualifying # of AB’s this year is Todd Helton, at .783, making Casey comfortably last in the NL. His cumulative OPS+ number for this year sits today at 100 (and his lifetime OPS+ sits at 99), meaning he is a league average hitter. However, he takes up the best-hitting position on the field (1B). He is NOT a league average hitter, at 1B.

    He is in the traditional “all his value tied up in BA” player, (low walks and low power), which players were kind of attractive in the 1960’s. Casey Kotchman will not be a part of the next good Braves team.

  41. He’s never been a low-walks player until this year. And the NL has been more of a hitter’s league this year than the AL, so it’s hard to say whether he’d really be at the bottom of the league had he been over hear all year long.

    In short: you might be jumping the gun a bit with that opinion.

  42. The only thing I think I am jumping the gun on is whether he can fix the walk problem and develop some more power as he ages, to become a league average hitter. Look at the list of 1B in the NL; I cannot think of one person that Kotchman hits better than, right now, and the stats back that up.

    He did walk more last year, but his power is up this year, so last year he would be described as “an average OBP terrible power hitter”; this year, “a bad OBP and weak power hitter”, and he is a first baseman, which is the hitter’s position.

    Kelly Johnson and Yunel Escobar are both hitting better than Kotchman this year, by comfortable margins, and they are middle infielders.

    I HOPE Kotchman develops into a league average IB. Right now, it is only hope, and requires improvement in 2 areas that are certainly possible, but difficult to call “likely”.

  43. Frank Wren was on local ATL sports radio this morning (680AM – Rude in the Morning). He spent 25 minutes answering every question under the sun.

    He made a few of the following remarks:

    1. Scott Boras thinks Tex deserves “superstar” money and the Braves contend that he wasn’t a “superstar” like Arod, but rather just a “great player”. I kinda agree with Wren here…nevertheless, that obviously played into why Tex never considered the Braves spring training offer. Wren also stated that he thought Tex’s “personal relationships with the Braves and the city of ATL” would’ve played into the contractual talks and considerations. Frank said THAT never happened.

    2. Wren stated that the rotation will build on young star pitchers like Jurrjens and Campillo. I called in to remind the show that Campillo ain’t young at 30/31.

    3. Wren said that he’s spoken with Frenchy several times since the demotion and that he thinks Jeff regrets a few of his comments he made at the time.

    4. About the offseason and possible free agent acquisitions: Wren stated that the Braves “would be aggressive; that one thing is certain”. (Is anyone else “certain” that the Braves will be “aggressive” in spending the money this club needs to become a dominant team again? I’m not.)

    So, I called in following the interview. After I made a few remarks on the above, I said:

    “Finally…you guys (the radio folks) have let me down. You spent the whole interview asking Frank Wren everything short of what color boxers he had on. Yet you didn’t even begin to ask why Corky Miller is STILL suiting up at the Major League level.”

    And it’s a damn shame…because it was one of the worst moves Wren has made thus far.

  44. Tiger,

    ONE of? No, it is the worst. I give his first year effort with the Braves as Gm a C maybe C+

  45. Parish–Thanks for relaying the Wren interview: it was both informative and interesting.

    I have no doubt that the Braves tried to sign Tex–why else would they have paid so much to get him? They may have first convinced themselves that with his Ga.Tech past and Atlanta wife that Boras might be prevailed upon to give a hometown discount; they may have susequently come to believe (or realize) that Boras was not about to let Tex sign without going on the open market.

    I recognize that there were some here who wanted to give Tex virtually unlimited money to stay in Atlanta; I think the Braves got it right: make him a good offer and let him walk if he refuses. Tex is “very good” , but not elite–just remember how unproductive he was during the first half. Sure, I wish he were our 1B, but no way was he anywhere near 20-23 million for 7 years or whatever Boras thinks he should command.

    Last, lets keep Corky through 2008: the season is essentially over and he makes wonderful comic relief. He really fits the late 1970s Braves–I could see him alongside Pepe Frias or Brian Asselstine–though both players are much better.

    The damage is already done….we might as well have some laughs and hope for a higher draft pick….

  46. The only interesting thing about Corky Miller is seeing if he can finish with the worst offensive season in Atlanta Braves history—that’s it.

    Otherwise, Sammons should be back there while McCann needs the time to clean out his headgear.

    FWIW, Dawgs get the coaches’ nod

    I’m not a fan of these polls or any championship that’s essentially determined by voters—figure skating, diving & synchronized swimming come to mind—but it’ll be fun season for UGA. The schedule may be the most difficult one they’ve ever faced, and I’m looking forward to it.

    If you look at the coaches pre-season Top 25 only as an indication that these should be top squads, it’s interesting to see that Georgia plays 5 of these teams (Florida, LSU, Auburn, Arizona St., & Tennessee), but only 1 (Tenn) in Athens.

    Not easy. They better figure out a way to be road warriors. Then, of course, we have Alabama, Georgia Tech & the Carolina Spurriers (away). They also play Central Michigan at home—a bowl team, whatever that means.

    Tee it up & let’s get it on. As long as I’m having conversations about the likes of Corky Miller, August 30 can’t come soon enough.

  47. It’s good to see that the “Tex thinks he’s elite, but he’s just very good” line that we’ve been hearing is straight from the Braves talking points. What a bunch of PR bullshit.

    I’m not sure who you’re referring to, but I’ve made that point, and I sure as hell didn’t get it from the Braves.

    Obviously, you can criticize the arguments that DOB has been making, that Wren just repeated nearly verbatim — which may indicate that DOB has been parroting the party line — and you can say that they’re pretty shallow arguments tied up in touchy-feely concepts like “carrying the team on his back” and “being clutch.

    On the other hand, you can point out — as I’ve tried to do — that he’s not one of the best 15 or 20 players in baseball, as Boras undoubtedly will try to argue (and as we were reading when we traded for the guy), that he’s actually a very similar offensive player to Jason Bay (a player who doesn’t get nearly as much press and who probably won’t get nearly the salary, despite being slightly higher on the defensive spectrum). Tex is a very good player who is going to get overpaid because he’s coming out in a weak free agent class and because he has an agent who is very good at getting his clients overpaid.

    I wish the Braves’ relations with their ex-players and ex-coaches didn’t have to involve so much surreptitious guttersniping, if that’s what it is, but there is a lot of room to make the exact argument you’re calling “PR bullshit.”

  48. Alex, my argument is with respect to what he should be paid. I have argued that based on Tex’s recent play and recent salary growth are consistent with a salary that pays him more than $20 million/year. What we define as elite versus very good is arbitrary. Is he as good a player as Chipper Jones? No. Is he the most valuable free agent hitter entering the market this year? Probably. What should we expect a player of his age and ability to be paid on the free agent market? $20+ million.

    And the Pujols line he threw out there was intentionally deceptive. He knows that. If he wants to play that card, fine; but that is the art of bullshitting.

    Bullshit is commonly used to describe what often occurs in situations where truth and accuracy are far less important than the ability to achieve a suitable response in the audience, often needed in politics, religion or advertising. In many cases, such a response helps to gain popularity or favor.

    All skewed, spinned, knowingly dubious, carefully framed, pretentious, misleading or vacuous statements are referred to as “bullshit”. Examples of “bullshit” can include sales/marketing pitches, public relations releases, and demagogic or disingenuous pronouncements made by politicians.

  49. good poll, no way in hell a lefty reliever gets through waivers, I doubt Kotsay would either.

  50. At least with Kotsay, since he’s not likely to be a compensatory-pick free agent, even if he doesn’t get through waivers, we can always just work out a deal with or dump him on whichever team claims him since we’re not getting anything anyway. And the likelihood that we might do that is the reason why he has a very good shot at getting through waivers, given his high salary. In fact, I would say that’s exactly what we should do with him.

    With Ohman, on the other hand, we can’t do that if we value the draft pick as much as it looks like we do.

  51. I agree with JC. The Braves are being disingenous. They offered him a deal that they knew he would not take. It’s perfectly reasonable for the Braves to decide that they don’t want to meet the market price for Teixera but it’s disingenous for them to imply that they made a serious effort. Saying they would have made him one of the highest priced players is irrelevant because it was still less (presumably) than he would make in free agency. And the bullshit about his connections to Atlanta is specious–they knew damn well that with Scott Boras as his agent, that wasn’t going to be a factor, at least not in spring training. If they were seriously going to entertain trying to retain Tex, they knew or should have known that they would have to pay the market price in free agency. If they don’t want to pay that, fine, but they certainly know that someone will and they knew that when they acquired him. And, let’s be real, even if Tex had won the triple crown or something, the Braves were not going to pay that much to resign him.

    The dishonesty of the Braves front office is not new. When Furcal signed with the Dodgers for much more than the Braves offered, JS complained that he didn’t give the Braves a chance to come back. But that was bullshit because Furcal and everyone knew that the Braves were not going to match what the Dodgers offered. It was pure PR on JS’s part to make the player look bad.

  52. Why can’t it be that they offered them a deal they thought was fair. He wouldn’t take it, which they knew, which proved he’s just trying to get the best offer possible? I think the disingenous party is the Teixera/Boras team.

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