200 thoughts on “The presence of Peter Tork is a coincidence game thread: Braves at Phillies, May 14”

  1. Continuing from the other thread, forget I said anything. Everyone go back to watching your fourth-place Braves.

  2. I have to agree with Brad here….can you remember the last time since 1999 that you really thought the Braves would get to the WS once they got to the playoffs? I sat through game 5 against the cubs in the NLDS. I watched every inning against the Astros in the marathon game.

    Every year since 1999 it has been the same thing. That will be 10 years next year! 10 years! At some point you have to do something different if you expect different results.

  3. ryan c @#62 last thread:

    Bobby said as much in an interview with the Pirates’ broadcasters last week. He said it’s much harder to win a division title–championship–than it is to win a World Series.

  4. I guess I don’t buy into the ‘blind luck wins WS’ theory. Last year the Red Sox were clearly better than the Rockies. I can see how luck could play into a team winning a game or two, but not a sweep. And I DO think you can build a team to win a WS, although in the Sox case, granted, a larger payroll would be nice. But it CAN be done, which is my point.

  5. It’s not blind luck. But the simple fact is that baseball is the sport where form does not hold, where good teams often lose to bad teams, and in a game between two good teams the difference is not that great. I’d guess that the best team wins a postseason series no more than 60 percent of the time. With three postseason series to win the World Championship… well, you do the math.

  6. And yes, Tork is a complete coincidence. I look up “For What It’s Worth” on YouTube, and this is the first one, and there he is.

  7. Brad,

    You are conflating two completely different issues. No one is happy with how the Braves are playing now or over the last three years. And the organization deserves criticism for that. But that’s different from saying that the Braves were failures from 1991 to 2005 because they didn’t win enough World Series. You are really comparing apples and oranges. The state of the team today really has nothing to do with what happened during the streak.

    I never said winning the WS was blind luck or that the best team never wins. But it’s obvious that the best teams don’t always win. Lots of people thought the Rockies had a chance against the Red Sox and it wouldn’t have been the biggest upset in the world if they had won. You can go back throughout baseball history and find myriad examples where the best team (at least on paper) lost the World Series.

    And if we are going to get into losing the World Series, let’s face the fact that the Braves played some pretty damn good teams. The Twins had the stupid Homerdome advantage, the Blue Jays were a great team, and the Yankees were awfully good, especially in 1999. The Indians were a hell of a team too. To some extent, the Braves came along at the wrong time. Look at some of the AL winners in the 80s, the Royals, the Orioles, the Brewers. I think the Braves would have easily beaten any of these.

    As for the Red Sox, they were a wild card in 2004 and had to come for 3-0 down; last year, they were down 3-1 in the ALCS. It’s just not that easy.

    I don’t think the Braves’ losses in the playoffs were pure luck. I think they had weaknesses that made them vulnerable and the organization is responsible for that. I don’t think JS was all that good in putting together well-rounded teams. But that’s different than saying they were failures. And how many WS should they have won before they would not be failures. They won 14 divisions; should they have won 10 WS, 7?

  8. Brad,

    How old are you? And that question is not a sarcastical one at all, I really honestly want to know how old you are.

  9. Mac,

    I think the problem is that people can’t do the math.

    I think (assuming the club that is 60% likely to win) it is .6 x .6 x .6 which = .22. That is 22% likely to win it all, ASSUMING you are among the best teams in baseball.

    During “the streak” we were only statitically off by 1 WS win. And we know that either 91 or 96 should have gone our way. During the later years of the streak, clearly the AL was superior to the NL.

    I partly agree with Brad, but I don’t see how we can beef up more without more dough. Either pay over slot in the draft, buy some Japanese or high end Latin American talent, or sign some free agents. Otherwise, the management in the front office has brought in pretty good talent for the money and has kept the cupboard from being bare.

    Where I may disagree with Brad is that I don’t think you can gain the advantage in the limited windows (Marlins style) by gutting your product for most years. The Marlins got extremely lucky in 03 (1997 they bought a team just like the Yankees or Diamondbacks and kind of like what the Braves did in the early 90’s). You are clearly working against the odds that way.

  10. I’m 28. I was 11 when the streak began, but that shouldn’t have anything to do with anything. I don’t care that the Braves were bad in the 70’s and 80’s so we should just enjoy any year they’re over .500. I’d feel the same way if I’d followed the Reds or Cubs all these years.
    I’m also not implying I’m for “buying” a WS or gutting the team for the next 10 years; I’m simply stating that, as fans, or at least with me PERSONALLY, I expect more than making the playoffs every year.
    The streak could be considered either a success or a failure, depending on how you judge things. If you base it on total championships won, it’d be a failure. if you base it on being better than every other team in the division (and doing something no other team had ever done), then it’s a success. However you define it is up to you.
    I don’t think it was a total failure, but it was also in the past. I’m only really talking about how we can get the CURRENT team on the right track, and how winning the East just doesn’t do it for me anymore.

  11. Well, prepare to remain disappointed.

    Some perspective…
    As much as I hate it—and I still do for several reasons—MLB’s modern post-season is the great equalizer. Get there & you have a chance.

    To show you how much the notion of luck works into the realm of modern post-season baseball, take a look at the Marlins, a team that’s never finished in first place.

    They had the “fortune” of twice having the best 2nd-place record in the NL. Before 1994, that was never anything worth writing home about.

    And, the 3-tier playoff system…it’s wacky & it’s always gonna be wacky. We have not seen the last of teams like the ’06 Cards or the ’03 Marlins. Look it up: Very, very rarely has the team with the best record won it all. (Eg.—Of the Yankees’ 4 recent titles, they had the best record exactly once.)

    I had a conversation with one of my Yankee pals who suffers from a case “acute short-memory syndrome” that pervades some Pinstripe types.

    In his mind, because the Yanks have no WS trophies since 2000, somehow Torre had lost his edge & he needed to go.

    My response: He’s the same manager he’s always been. He had the rare benefit of having Mariano Rivera, who didn’t give up anything between Game 4 of the ’97 ALDS & Game 7 of the ’01 WS. Zippo. Nothing. Arguably the greatest pitching run in post-season history.

    Rivera lost 2 historic games in ’01 & ’03 (one in somewhat flukey fashion), but Torre gave him the ball to close out those Series. I’m not sure what else Torre was supposed to do there.

    How was he so smart then & so dumb now?

  12. I’d argue the Yankee teams of the late 90’s had that ‘something’ that the later teams have not. Something about the core of Jeter-Brosius-etc just clicked and when they started going after the high-priced FA’s (Mussina, Giambi), they haven’t had the same chemistry. Much like the Braves…they just don’t seem to have the same…something…that even the teams from the early 2000’s had. I don’t know that Torre needed to go, but the fact that he did after all they accomplished sort of proves my point–it wasn’t enough, at least lately.
    I get how baseball has changed, etc. I’d be happy making the 2nd round or league championship more often than not, b/c eventually, maybe, one year things will click and you’ll win it all. My basic point is that we’re not even doing THAT anymore. I understand that you need things to fall in place to win a WS, but you ALSO have to GET THERE first, and you do that by beating bad teams (pirates, nationals), among other things. I suppose that’s moreso why I’m frustrated…I at least want the CHANCE for the “luck” y’all speak of to take over.

  13. If you compare baseball to basketball and football, baseball is much more random. A team in baseball that wins 100 games wins 61% of its games. That’s considered a great year. In the NBA, that would translate to about 51 wins and in the NFL to 10; nice seasons but no one would get excited about them because the best teams often win 70-75% of their games. The Braves won 90 games for 13 out of 14 non-strike seasons (and would have won 90 in the strike season); that is simply phenomenal. What is the probability of that?

  14. “I guess I don’t buy into the ‘blind luck wins WS’ theory. Last year the Red Sox were clearly better than the Rockies. I can see how luck could play into a team winning a game or two, but not a sweep. And I DO think you can build a team to win a WS, although in the Sox case, granted, a larger payroll would be nice. But it CAN be done, which is my point.”

    when did sweeping the ws come into the conversation? did you watch the 2006 world series? you really think the cardinals were even a top 10 team that year? luck and key players stepping up in a way that they probably never will again made for a VERY lucky WS winner.

    every year, a team can make their goal to win a world series, but winning the division is a nice consolation and should not be looked at as failure.
    and your argument about “building a team to win a ws” backfires on you when you look at last year’s team and some of the teams that the braves had “during the streak”. what do you think those teams were built to do? what do you think the braves are trying to do this year with the signing of glavine? their goal is to win, and win it all.

    i still dont understand your argument. are you now arguing that the braves put together teams to win the division and not the world series?

  15. Here’s one thing… Teams with great pitching staffs often underperform in postseason. If you have ten good pitchers, that means you have two or three pitchers who aren’t going to factor in, so your roster allocation is suboptimal. (Nobody has nothing but good players.) The Braves built around pitching in the nineties, and that helped them win consistently (because there were always some pitchers having good years). But a staff with four ace starters isn’t really what World Series champs are made of. The one year they won the Series, it was with the two best starters in the league, one other top starter, and a shutdown closer — but a total pitching staff that was in many ways less impressive than in other years.

  16. i still dont understand your argument. are you now arguing that the braves put together teams to win the division and not the world series?

    During the streak? Um…you could make that argument. I’ll concede that they were probably more likely to ‘catch fire’ and win it all with the starting pitching and veterans (see DOB’s blog today for this exact topic); lately, we’ve been led by young guys and haven’t had the big three to bail things out.
    I would say this team could ‘potentially’ win the WS, if every single thing fell into place, but that’s not realistic. I don’t think it’s a WS team, but that’s my personal opinion, and no one in the front office asked me. They don’t have a leadoff hitter, and knew that going in. Hoping KJ would do well isn’t a plan, it’s a wish. Hoping Chuck James would suddenly become reliable isn’t a plan, it’s a wish. Hoping Soriano was a closer wasn’t a plan, it was a wish. There were still too many questions coming out of spring training to feel secure that we’d even overtake the mets and phillies, let alone win the WS.
    You don’t have to understand my argument. It’s not that hard: I expect more than division titles. It’s since been amended: I DEFINITELY expect more than 3rd place finishes.

  17. I’m only really talking about how we can get the CURRENT team on the right track, and how winning the East just doesn’t do it for me anymore.

    This is a recipe for an unhappy life. The Yankees are going to spend $200 million dollars this season, have some smart guys in the front office and from the looks of things that won’t even guarantee that they can handle the Rays.

    Putting together a winning baseball team is really, really hard. If you make the post season, that’s a good year.

  18. This is a recipe for an unhappy life.

    Having to live in Tuscaloosa can’t help.


  19. Sure, it’s a good year. And if that’s all you want, go for it. We DID that, though. We know what it’s like to win the East. I don’t understand why you’re ok with it ending there.

  20. Well I live in Birmingham, which is much worse, but still. I guess I *have* been unhappy with the team the last few years. I’m never going to be ok with being a .500 team and crossing our fingers for luck.

  21. Mac, so you’re saying we need to call Steve “Poison” Avery back and Mark Wohlers? Just kidding.

    Oh, how I miss Steve Avery…

  22. Do you live in Birmingham now that you’re done with school or did you live there and commute to Tuscaloosa? Or have I misremembered and you’re actually in school at Samford?

  23. There’s actually a law school in Birmingham I went to, Birmingham School of Law, and I’ve lived here my whole life.

  24. I’m from Birmingham/live in Tuscaloosa/flunked out of UA Law/my father graduated from Cumberland.

    Anyway, this is a great time to be in Tuscaloosa. School’s out, the kiddies have gone home, there are no lines or traffic.

  25. Brad,
    I gotcha. I knew you were in law school, I just didn’t know where, apparently.

    I guess it’s all relative.

  26. Because there is nothing you can do to control things beyond that. Do you really think that the Cards and Rockies front offices did something better/different in their WS years than what the Braves were doing? No, they just caught lightening in a bottle. They just tried to collect as many good players as possible same as everybody else and the same as we are doing now.

  27. Something was different. I don’t know what it is, or I’d be in the front office right now. Maybe we don’t have the type players, other than Chipper, who ‘catch fire’ at the right time. This team isn’t good in close games, doesn’t have a great in-game manager to balance that out, has a decent-when-healthy bullpen (but not lights-out), doesn’t hit for much power, and somehow, incredibly, ALSO doesn’t manufacture runs. All of those things are what win playoff games.

  28. since we’re giving testimonies – 27 here Birmingham resid. also, all my life, went to the commuting college of the south – UAB

  29. csg is the Smitty of Alabama. Went to one school, cheers for a different (better) one’s athletics department.

  30. is it worse that I played golf at UAB, and still dont pull for their athletics. We’ll I guess I do keep up with basketball and golf a little. Football program should be shut down

  31. For 2 years now, the Braves have sucked at hitting in “late and close” situations. its past sample size fluke. I blamed it on our inept bench last year, but this year, argh!

    We get men on, but we just can’t get the big hit. Eventually one will sneak through, and get us out of our rut. But at this point, it just feels like if it tied after 7 innings, its a matter of how long our bullpen lasts.

  32. what a day, just found out that the wife and I are expecting. what a weird feeling, excited – yes, scared – oh yeah

  33. I was mostly going off of what DOB said about it:

    “The Braves have 37 homers, which ranks eighth in the 16-team NL. And when you consider that 17 of those homers have been hit by two players, Chipper Jones and Brian McCann … well, this isn’t a power-laden lineup. At least not right now.

    Not until Mark Teixeira starts hitting the way he’s capable of hitting, and unless and until Jeff Francoeur returns to the power-hitting mode he was in a couple years ago.

    Just a few years back, in 2005 (their last division title), the Braves finished fourth in the NL in homers. In 2003 they had a whopping 235 homers when no other NL team had 200.

    That 2003 team had six players with more than 20 homers apiece, led by Javy Lopez (43), Gary Sheffield (39), Andruw Jones (36), Chipper Jones (27), Vinny Castilla (22) and Marcus Giles (21).

    Not to mention leadoff man Rafael Furcal’s 60 extra-base hits (15 homers) and 25 stolen bases in 27 attempts.

    Those were the days, weren’t they?”

  34. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Petah Gammons and Tom Verducci both pick this club to win the World Series this year? Or do I have my prognosticators mixed up?

    It sounds to me, Brad, as if the club had every right to expect to be pretty good this year. Doesn’t sound like the “wing and a prayer” situation you make it out to be.

    Winning baseball games is hard. Yes, I’m disappointed that we are losing EVERY close game.

    I do, however, foresee this club straightening a few things out in the next 100 games. Maybe other things go wrong, though. Who knows? They play all 162 for a reason.

    In any case.. I don’t know what you intend to do when you say ‘It isn’t good enough anymore.’ Are you going to give your support to another team, as if that’s going to help them and hurt this one? Or do you just plan to make it a point NOT to enjoy it if this club wins the division?

    Call me nuts, but they’re my team. I’ll call ’em bums if I want to. But I’m going to enjoy every win they get, even if it’s win number 62 in game 162.

  35. just found out that the wife and I are expecting

    what a coincidence!!

    Congrats csg

  36. A side note,

    I think fandom is fascinating for one particular reason: we seem to forget the other team is getting paid, too.

    We all EXPECT our team to win games. Myself included.

    But when I think about it, I have to say I can only HOPE they win game. I have a right to EXPECT they play hard and smart.

    Even then… I’m not so sure I have that right, unless I’m paying for a ticket.

  37. Of course I’m not going to support another team. As I’ve repeatedly said, I don’t have all the answers for what’s wrong with this team. But something is clearly wrong, and has been since 2005. That’s not a fluke–it’s a pattern, and I don’t see it changing soon.
    I’m glad people picked us to win this year–I even said that on paper, they have the personnel if everything goes right. And it hasn’t, for whatever reason, which is why I’m frustrated.
    And if they do somehow catch fire and win the division, I’ll be as happy as anyone. I won’t be for long if they’re swept out in the first round, but I accept that I’m alone in that regard.
    Winning baseball games is hard? That’s the best you can do?

  38. Brad, I’m not doing anything.

    I just don’t understand the stomping and shouting that it’s May 14th and we don’t have the World Series sewn up yet.

  39. I didn’t mean to start a whole big debate about this. I’m tired of defending why I want to win games and am not ok with being mediocre (or finishing behind the $27 million-dollar Marlins). It’s cool that no one agrees with me. I have high standards.
    Let’s get back to talking about tonight’s game or something.

  40. thanks to all

    Godot did the same happen to you recently?? if so, my congrats to you as well

  41. He was saying it’s a coincidence that both you and your wife are expecting.

    I’ve avoided responding to you on this subject until now and am basically going to continue doing so, but I wanted to point out that you’re throwing a whole lotta straw men out there. Not once has anyone said or implied they’d be happy after a first-round sweep, for example. You keep acting like you’re all alone in your dreams of Braves greatness, but I’ll bet you can’t name a single Braves fan here or anywhere else that wants to finish behind the Marlins (note: we haven’t finished behind anyone yet) or wants to fail to win the WS.

  42. Brad,

    I know the age question seemed strange earlier so I will just try to explain the reason for asking it. It seems like you haven’t had many failures in life so maybe you expect 100% success from yourself and maybe even the Braves. That might be a little harsh and I would generally expect that out of someone who was more like 22 or younger. But if you have been in law school then I am sure that you have had some failures and humbling experiences.

    I have over the last several years had to face up to shortcomings that I never thought I would have and have failed in ways I never thought I would imagine, so now I measure success sometimes in different ways. Maybe everythings not always a 100% success, but I can accept the 85% successes now. Sorry, rant over.

  43. I’m on board with a change of subject…

    I’m sure it was talked about, I’m not as regular a lurker as I once was, but what does everyone think of the proposed Maddux-back-to-Atlanta idea that the writers are throwing around?

  44. csg,
    Congrats. You’re the second person I know in 2 days who has become an “expecting father.”

    Bama peeps,
    I wasn’t going to bring it up, but I can’t help myself. I notice you’re moving down the ACC ladder by adding Duke to the future football sked. Should be a good Ga. Dome payday, though.

    I’ll say this & I’m done: Speaking only for myself, I’d just say that a little perspective is in order.

    Living in the cauldron that is New York baseball can stretch the bounds of reality sometimes—hearing Yankee fans moan that they haven’t won a WS in 8 whole years can be a bit much— so I’m sorry if I’m being overly sensitive in that regard. But I am…

  45. Well, I tried to end things.
    People HAVE implied that they’re happy after a first-round sweep; see #16. Not happy about the sweep, but just making the playoffs. Like when the season ends, and they’re happy b/c hey, we made the playoffs! That’s more what I’m talking about. That’s a great mentality for teams like the Reds or Brewers…but not for us. Not for the Mets. Not for the Diamondbacks. Or Red Sox. Or Yankees. Or…you get my point. Some franchises are ok with making the playoffs, but that shouldn’t be OUR goal, at least not to me. I’m happy winning the division, but if nothing else comes from it, what’s the point?
    I’m glad we won so many in a row. It’s an awesome accomplishment. But that should prove my point even more–we DID it so many times that it’s not the goal anymore.
    Alabama’s goal isn’t to get to a bowl game every year. Same for any traditional “power”. Coaches have been fired for ONLY doing that. High standards, maybe even unrealistic ones. I don’t see what’s wrong with that. Y’all sound like a bunch of Auburn fans, just happy to be here.
    I guess my argument is based on the assumption that we should look at ourselves as a power, not like an up-and-coming traditional cellar-dweller. I’ve already said I have high standards and yes, it does lead to disappointment. That’s fine. I accept that as a sports fan. It’s not my whole life nor is my existence wrapped up in it. There are much more important things. This is where my frustration (and Braves pessimism) comes from. It annoys people, but that’s also fine.
    Take your shots, but I’m also a Cowboys fan, and of course, Alabama. So I’m used to winning teams. The Cowboys have been raked over the coals for losing their first playoff game last year–“making the playoffs” isn’t the goal. Alabama fired Mike Shula soon after going 10-2 and winning a decent bowl game. High standards. So yes, I’m probably spoiled as a sports fan, but a) I don’t see how that’s a bad thing and b) I don’t see why any of you care. You’re ok with just making the playoffs, I’m not. We’re all fans, just approach things differently. I know we all want to win, I guess I just “expect” to based on the last 17 years. Again, don’t know why that’s a bad thing, nor why any of you care.

  46. “My team has finished below .500 once in the past 17 years. Therefore, they’re obviously doing something wrong.”

    It’s arrogance worthy of a Yankee fan to expect nothing less the post-season every year and a WS championship at least once every few. Why is Atlanta’s 14 straight division championships so amazing? Because it’s just NOT something that’s done in any sport, ever! I can’t emphasize this enough. It’s just not done. To maintain that level of success for that long is completely absurd. Hell, the Yankees couldn’t even do it while spending gobs more than the competition.

    As a fan, you should expect a competitive team year in and year out. But there’s not really a whole lot more than that you can ask for. Just think about it. If every fan expected more than that then… by definition, around 50% of fans would think their front office/management was incompetent in any given year. And demand that they be fired and replaced by someone else. And that’s just stupid.

    You hope your team makes the playoffs/post-season. You hope they’ll get a shot at a championship (which they really do if they can get to the post-season). But expecting your team to make the postseason every year and screaming incompetence every time you don’t is absurd.

    More than any other sport, baseball is a game for the long-haul. Entire seasons can be lost because some player randomly has a down-year or a star pitcher gets hurt. Look at performance over a 5 or 10 year period to get a realistic idea of how good your management is.

  47. Look at performance over a 5 or 10 year period to get a realistic idea of how good your management is.

    Ok, going back 5 years, they’ve won 3 division titles and nothing else.

    Going back 10 years, they’ve won 8 division titles, gone to the WS once, and that’s it. I expect them to make the WS more than once a decade. I’m sorry.

  48. Yeah, yeah. I’m making all kinds of friends today.
    So about tonight’s game…

  49. Perhaps the perspective need shift to the problems of the last couple years. Obviously, this team – like the last few – is built differently than the teams of 1991-2003. The budgets have been going down, relatively and in a few instances absolutely, while the margin of error gets smaller. And as that has happened, some of the flaws of those earlier teams – mainly of management, both on and off the field – has come into sharper focus.

    This is not to say that Bobby and JS were getting by simply with a big budget; that’s ridiculous, as both were and remain Hall-of-Fame guys (in my mind, anyway). It is, however, to point out that the Braves, who now need to do more with less, haven’t, and show little or no sign of doing so soon. This is partly due to bad luck. But it’s also due to somewhat dated methods of talent evaluation both on and off the field. While I don’t expect a repeat of the 1990s, and while I can’t say I’m ‘sick’ of being mediocre – that feels too condescending to my friends in Cincinnati and Seattle, etc. – it does mean I have a lot of worry about what’s to come. All those great years may have hindered the Braves to do anything but ‘reload,’ and they aren’t really reloading like they need to anymore.

  50. I think its so funny how people complain that Bama fans live in the past, yet everyone on here acts so happy that we had the streak and just assumes that everything will work out.

    I said 3 years ago on here that Bobby needed to go, and I got ripped for it. How would things be different now if he had been replaced? They couldnt have gone much worse.


  51. “Fire the coach/manager” is such a radio-call-in jerk cop-out.

    Fire him and replace him with who? What manager in the last 3 years has had sustained success?

    Terry Francona? And?

  52. All i said is how could it have been different? I have tons of respect for Bobby, believe me…but check the game recaps for this year and tell me how many have CRUCIAL MANAGEMENT ERRORS and come back and defend him. Same thing with Bobby Bowden.

    BTW i have never called in a radio show. And this is the exact reaction I got last time.

    Oh well some things never change.

  53. I think Bobby still does a good job at the things he’s always been good at, and does a bad job at things he’s been bad at. But he’s gotten so bad at one of the things he was always bad at (in-game tactical decisions) that it’s driving me crazy. I really do think he misses Corrales.

  54. That’s a separate discussion. And any pro-Bobby argument is going to be increasingly difficult to defend based on his managerial identity the last few years. You’ll certainly be out on your own limb here, but as I’ve hopefully proven, that’s not a bad thing.
    But again, keeping him b/c there’s no one better isn’t much of a plan either.

  55. I should point out that a lot of people wanted to chase Bobby off a few years ago and replace him with the hot managerial candidate from AAA… Grady Little.

    I also think that, considering that Alabama has already been brought into the conversation, that a lot of people thought that it was time for Gene Stallings to go back when he retired, and it took them a decade to find a decent replacement.

  56. I’ll be the one to say it:

    If you are gonna give Bobby the credit for The Streak, you also have to blame him for not winning more than 1 WS in 14 years. He manages the playoffs the same way he manages a game on May 14th and that is why we struggled so much in the postseason. Yes, luck is part of it, but you have to create your own luck. All we have done lately is create our own bad luck.

  57. BTW- whats the record for most comments in a game thread before the first pitch is thrown?

  58. regarding the ridiculous falsity on post #55 brad,

    i didnt imply that. those were your words put into quotes. if you want to end something then dont drag someone in who was done with the argument hours ago. you tell me where i IMPLIED that i’m happy after a FIRST ROUND SWEEP?

    here’s my opinion on why you are making this argument: ’cause you like to argue.

    go back and look at the post and tell me where my implications lie.

  59. we need to try and play some smart ball here tonight, if we lose tonight, tomorrow vs Hamels will have everyone pressing

  60. Brad,

    What would make your happy about this team? Do they need to clinch the division tonight? Why do self described “baseball fans” constantly fail to account for the fact that there are going to be 162 games?! It’s May! Get a friggin grip. Have we seriously wasted all these posts debating a guy whose analysis is that the team is missing “something”. CHRIST!

  61. “Ok, going back 5 years, they’ve won 3 division titles and nothing else.

    Going back 10 years, they’ve won 8 division titles, gone to the WS once, and that’s it. I expect them to make the WS more than once a decade. I’m sorry.”

    Teams that haven’t made it to ANY world series in the past decade: 15
    Teams that have made it to more than 1: 3 (Red Sox, Yankees, Cardinals)

    So yeah, your expectations are basically insane.

  62. When was the last time the Braves had a hitter have an extended stretch like Chipper is having now?

  63. When was the last time the Braves had a hitter have an extended stretch like Chipper is having now?

    Chipper in 2006 when he had 14 xbh games in a row. Javy in 2003? Matty when he had 10 hits in 10 ABs in a row?

  64. Geez, some of you need to chill. I’m just trying to have a civil discussion about the team.
    Ryan, you said “winning the division is a nice consolation and should not be looked at as failure”, which is where we fundamentally disagree. And which I’ve been saying for the last 2 hours is fine with me.
    As for my expectations being “insane” because I think we should consider ourselves in the Sox-Yankees-Cardinals mode and not the Reds-Brewers-Rays mode, again, I said that I understand I have high expectations. I don’t expect to make the WS every year. But I expect it more than once a decade. I’m sorry. That obviously makes me a bad fan to you, and that’s fine.
    It’s ok to disagree here, but I could do without the accusations that I’m some crazed idiot who just doesn’t realize how good we had it as Braves fans. I want us to win…and I’m the one under attack.
    We’re a weird fan base, indeed.

  65. It’s so cool when you save yourself from making stupid comments by being too late to the thread. I would have totally bitched about KJ not leading off if I had gotten here in time. :)

  66. @81, what would make me happy about this team is for them to get healthy, play to their potential, and get to the World Series. With the personnel we have, I don’t see why that’s “insane”, and I won’t be happy unless we do that.

  67. I like how the Braves are doing the little things that win ballgames tonight.

  68. This scoring outburst puts me in mind of an old adage “EVERYBODY HITS!”

  69. We’re still killing ourselves with double plays though. We’ve basically grounded into 3 of them in 4 innings, only we got lucky once and Howard dropped it.

  70. I’m guessing of one of the answers for the Aflac trivia question is Livan Hernandez.

  71. Quick! Let’s all attack lunatic96 for being negative!
    Isn’t that what we do?

  72. @ 113.

    Was the question, “which pitcher in MLB today gets the least credit for his fairly stellar career?”

  73. @121

    Oh I’m aware of Livan’s IP totals. Most people just look at the pedestrian ERA+ totals but eating huge numbers of innings at league average has lots of value. He needs to get himself on one of the New York teams or the Red Sox to up his stock.

  74. Well, Mac, at least they’re not throwing batteries like they did after the Phillies won the 1993 NLCS.

  75. Man, Glavine’s having quite a good outing thus far. He’s even striking a few guys out! :-o

  76. Anybody have a guess as to why my in game video on Gameday doesn’t work.

    I have never viewed it in the past either.

  77. Chipper’s average is getting dangerously close to slipping below .420 again.

  78. I remember those days, Mac. She really was terrible. She couldn’t even handle a 20 second highlight. She’s come a long way. God bless her.

  79. Yikes it might be Boyer time if Glavine keeps this up. He’s doing a mighty fine Chucky imitation this inning.

  80. Note to Cox … the best way to get a W for Glavine is to get him out. He’s already gone 5.

  81. just reading over the dicussion with young Mr. Brad…………i know its hard to pull any historical perspective out of the air, but too much sucess can really spoil some people. i hear football fans every day that sound just like Brad since the Seminoles have fallen from grace( after 15 straight top 5 finishes…….kinda like the Braves winning the east)……………..sharp jabs of reality can be a bitch. i’m sure all you “bama fans can relate.

  82. I knew it would be Boyer if we got to Burrell. I’m glad it worked, despite the lefty homer off the LOOGY. Are both arms still intact?

  83. well it’s nice to allow the tying run to get in scoring position. polite even.

  84. in fairness, boyer was making some really good pitches there…he was ahead of every hitter and they all dinked base hits

  85. I doubt I’m the only “kid” in here. And again, as I said 3 hours ago, I’m not going to apologize for expecting success. Sorry you old guys can’t wrap your head around that…we’re not just happy to be here.

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