ESPN – Marlins vs. Braves – Box Score – April 24, 2008
It’s a good old-fashioned “hang on for dear life” win. Not a one-run victory; the Braves will apparently never win a one-run game again. But uncomfortably tight for a game in which the Braves led 6-1 in the second.
Chuck James gave up a run in the first, though it wasn’t entirely his fault; he got a little popup that KJ and Francoeur couldn’t get to. Then the Braves put together six straight hits with one out in the bottom of the inning to make it 5-1, and Chipper hit a solo homer in the second to make it 6-1.
Chuck pretty much imploded after that. He was lucky to get out of the third with only one run scoring, thanks to Diaz throwing out a runner at the plate, a runner who probably should have stayed put down four runs at the time. It’s not as bad as the Nats’ baserunning earlier this week, but it was still an unreasonable gamble. Then he gave up a two-run homer in the fifth to cut the lead to 6-4.
The bullpen did its part this time; Resop was not in evidence. Campillo bounced back with two innings of one-hit baseball, and Acosta pitched two innings in which he gave up two out walks but nothing else. In the bottom of the eighth, McCann tripled; Snitker managed to not send him for the inside-the-park homer, and Francoeur brought him home with a sac fly to make it 7-4.
Chipper went 3-3 with a walk and scored a couple of times. Francoeur was 1-3 but the hit was a bases-loaded double to score two runs. Everybody had at least one hit.
Mac, I can tell you have high regard for Snitker!!!
Continuing the previous conversation…
This Whiskey Falls campaign is even worse than the Dane Cook “Acktober” campaign from last year….and a quarter as bad as last year’s “Mark Teixeira song” by those effeminate douchebags with moobs from Auburn last ….
😯
Also:
Mets, LOL
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn104/dtflowers/metslol.jpg
Nice move by Bobby using Acosta for the two inning save. Boyer is severely overworked having pitched in 6 of the last 8 games, and the only other right-handers available were Carlyle and Resop. I suppose he could’ve went with Ohman, but I’m glad he didn’t.
Nice win and a great moment seeing McCann’s first triple. Don’t know if they were hugging him in the dugout or holding him up.
Cox has embraced the full use of the bullpen in any given game as much as any NL manager except maybe LaRussa, averaging almost 4 relievers per game. And so, as amazing as it is to say that a 2-inning save is a throwback move, it is exactly that and nice to see.
I guess I’m alone on this, but it’s my opinion that sending Hermida in the third inning was not a mistake. Yunel put that ball right on Hermida’s hip when he was a foot away from the plate. He scores on that play 80% of the time at a minimum. If you’re up four runs, you don’t send him — otherwise, score schmore. The relay was above and beyond the expected outcome, so you tip your cap.
Why run the risk of being thrown out if there is only one out? I can understand sending the runner if there are two outs.
Did not know that…
“Atlanta pitchers have yet to get a hit this season, going 0-of-39. The Braves are the last NL team without a hit from a pitcher”
#6
I think there’s a risk either way — do you risk getting a guy thrown out, or do you risk the succeeding batters not getting the job done? And again, that was one hell of a play — if McCann had to reach and swipe at Hermida at all, he would have been safe. That throw straight up the third base line is a bear, but Yunel made it. Kudos!
I didn’t see the play, but Diaz has a stronger arm than most people think…and we all know about Yunel. I guess the Marlins third base coach never thought there would be a close play at the plate.
You gotta see it — it’s truly great.
I gotta agree with sansho. I don’t think it’s as simple as “don’t get thrown out at the plate down four runs or with one out.” Like he said, there’s risk on both sides. If the next hitters don’t get the run home, you’ll have wished you sent him. Now, if a great-armed right fielder was the outfielder you were running out, that’s a different story, but with Matt Diaz in left, and the situation needing a perfect throw from left, relay from short, and tag at the plate, I’ll take those chances.
As I said, third base coaches need to re-evaluate the arm strength and throwing accuracy of Diaz and Yunel. They are both better than the reputation they are receiving I am sure.
I love it when I see Heilman and Sosa keep getting destroyed by opposition.
Actually, I’d rather them not and we can continue to nail runners at the plate. Let people think they can’t throw. Diaz doesn’t have a great arm, but I’d definitely say it’s above average. Same with Escobar.
Nice to see Diaz get a start and a hit that produced runs against a RH pitcher. Lets go get’em at Larry’s feasting ground. No Johan, no Perez we should have a chance at a sweep.
Mac–it was Escobar not Diaz who threw out the runner at the plate. Diaz threw to Esco.
Happy Birthday to chipper 🙂 Thanks to him.. Constancy to somethinag. I like it soooo much.
Also Happy Birthday girl T, my lovely nice friend..
You cannot make the second out of the inning at home plate down by 4 runs with the middle of your order up. Cannot do it.
Getting that one run is not worth the risk. Any risk of screwing up your bigger inning is not worth it in that situation and that’s exactly what they did. The next guy flew out & that was that.
Heading into the enemy’s den tomorrow night with a mellow Met fan. Jurrjens/Pelfrey—I like our chances.
Rob, I would prefer not seeing so many close plays at the plate…for the sake of Brian’s health…I can still remember the Angels game…and the d-backs game…
19–I still think Erstad’s play was cheap
Cheap or not cheap, you can’t control how opponents will behave. That’s why I prefer not seeing close plays at the plate.
agreed
Chucky is sent to Richmond and a reliever will be up for the Mets series before Tommy returns next week…
…FREE STOCKMAN!!! We need another Aussie to replace Moylan!!!
Chucky sent back to Richmond; call up announced tomorrow; Stockman didn’t pitch today for Richmond
also on the farm–Hanson gave up 1 run in 7 innings
I fear Bobby calling up Stockman and never using him, then when Glavine returns Stockman gets sent back and Resop hangs on for another 2 months
update on Gonzo and Infante
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/04/24/gonzalez_0424.html
quote from Chipper…
Chipper Jones celebrated his 36th birthday Thursday by taking some grief from his younger teammates. He dished it back, too.
“All the young guys hit in the middle of the lineup,” Jones said. “I’ve been here 15 years, and I’m still right in amongst them and producing, leading by example. So they can all kiss my rear as far as I’m concerned because I cannot wait until 10 years from now, when I come back and I walk through the clubhouse door, have my street clothes on and they’re 35, 36, and they look at me and said ‘Now, I know what you’re talking about.'”
He said it laughing, just like he did when he explained what he’d be doing to celebrate his birthday as the team chartered north after the game.
“I get an all-expense paid trip to New York,” he said. “I’m sure they’ll have a nice warm welcome for me.”
I’m with sansho on this one. Sure, you’re down 4 runs, but you’re also in the 3rd inning. Cutting the lead by a run is important early.
And this whole “middle of the lineup” thing is silly. After Willingham you’ve got Jacobs and then dreck. Basically, you’re betting that Jacobs will at least get a fly ball, and even then, you still might have a play at the plate on a throw from, say, Frenchy.
Not saying I’d have sent the runner, but I definitely don’t think it’s cut-and-dry. This certainly wasn’t a Snitker.
And for those of you who haven’t seen it, it was really a money throw by Escobar. When the ball was caught, it was like a foot in front of Willingham’s leg. McCann just caught it and let him slide right into the glove. Crazy-good throw.
Also, the play is listed under “Willingham’s RBI double” on mlb.com rather than “Escobar makes TEH BEST THROW EVAR” or something appropriate like that.
Mac, I humbly submit for the next “X” another XTC, um, ballad:
Frank, that’s a breaking new…that was Hanson’s first ER this season.
Seems like JoJo has finally found his control as well.
mraver,
Again, maintaining the possibility of the big inning is worth more to the Marlins than any possibility of running yourself out of an inning.
There are plenty of ways to score a run (or 2 or 3) with one out & runners on 2nd & 3rd. Remember, our infield would’ve been playing deep, thrilled to exchange an out for a run.
And the way Chuckie was pitching, “dreck” was a relative notion. He was on the ropes & the Marlins gift-wrapped him a situation that put him one pitch from getting out of the inning.
The way the inning worked out for Florida is the very reason you don’t risk it—the worst-case scenario happened.
Just watched the late night replay of the play on TS. The runner should have been sent home. Escobar had no margin for error. The runner scores at least 95% of the time on that play.
The throws and the turn were perfect.
Not that I would’ve sent the runner, because I’m in the down by four it’s not worth the risk camp, but if you’re going to send him in that situation, one out is the time to do it as opposed to with nobody out or two outs.
Mac is right that this wasn’t nearly as bad as the Nats earlier this week, since it took a perfect play to get him, but with a four-run deficit, you really need to keep the big inning alive. Were it a two-run lead, I might agree that cutting the lead might be worth it, but cutting it from four to three just isn’t worth the risk when a potential big inning awaits IMO.
Wouldnt it make more sense to call up a starter from the minors (Reyes, Hanson) and move Carlyle and Bennet back to the pen?
The team does not need a fifth starter until May 10, so Bennett is heading back to the bullpen regardless.
Nick, I would send the runner with two outs for sure. I am interested to hear from you why wouldn’t you do that? The reason why I wouldn’t send the runner home with only one out is that the runner on third can still score with the second out through grounders to middle infielders or SF.
That guy should be sent every time. It took two absolutely perfect throws to get Hermida, including pretty much an all-timer by Escobar. Seriously, if that throw is a few inches in any direction from where it was, Hermida is safe. Yes, the Marlins were down four runs, and yes, they should have played for the big inning. They were.
They scored one run on the play, and, I don’t know, 97% of the time two would have scored, and on the next play the third run of the inning would have scored on a sacrifice fly.
Either way, I’m pretty sure the bulk of the work done analyzing this issue has shown third base coaches to be too conservative in sending runners. According to this study:
http://mvn.com/mlb-stats/2007/05/30/third-base-coaches-get-your-windmill-arm-ready/
the break-even mark for sending a guy in that situation is 79%, and there is no way the Braves get that out 4 out of every five times. Two consecutive perfect throws without crow hops from 175 feet away don’t happen very often.
Was anyone watching the Game on Sun Sports yesterday i actually couldn’t catch it on at real time because it was blacked out. but i just catched it and around the 8th inning announcer was saying how did Chipper not win the gold glove. He was like he asked i the Marlins coaches who they voted for and they said Chipper mostly because of the highest fielding % blah blah wont get into all that. but the funny thing he said was “It’s got me thinking how the heck did David Wright win the gold glove because you cant vote for your own guy”. So yeah just pointing out again Chipper was robbed
A good piece on the Joneses:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/john_donovan/04/24/donovan.jones/index.html
csg
That is a great Chipper quote!
When you call someone up, don’t they have to stay up for like at least a week, or is that they can’t be called back up for 15 days? I think this move means that Resop’s days may be numbered.
If Stockman is finally “freed” today and called up to Atlanta, and pitches like he’s been pitching in Richmond, I don’t see HOW in good conscience Frank Wren could keep Resop over Stockman at that point.
If he does that, that would officially make him the dumbest GM in Baseball, Jim Bowden included.
Lots of ifs, Alex.
I’m betting: (1) Stockman doesn’t pitch quite as well in Atlanta as he has in Richmond; (2) He still pitches better than Resop; and (3) Resop is not long for this team.
Just caught the video of Secular Ebony’s throw—sick.
A) great piece on the Jones boys
B) Anybody notice that Francour had a cortisone shot in his ankle and that it is bothering him? (apparently from an old HS football injury)
C) what odds do you guys give to Chipper keep hitting .400 if he stays healthy? I always think of that as a “never going to happen again” thing, but George Brett hit .390 in 1980, Carew hit.388 in 77, Tony Gwinn hit .394 in ’94, and a few guys have hit in that .360-.380 range in the last 15-20 years… so it could happen right? I guess the bigger question is: Is chipper more likely to play enough games to qualify for the title? or more likely to hit .400?
Even if Stockman pitches good, I would not be surprised if he is sent back down. He’s been passed up on so many other occasions. I sometimes wonder how the organization views him compared to how many of us see him.
more likely to play enough games–it only takes 502 plate appearances which would be about 120 games with a bit more than 4 PA per game
I can’t see chipper hitting below .350. I think the only thing keeping him from being a leader for the batting title will be injuries. I think he’d hit .400 before he played 150 games in a season.
There is absolutely no way that Hansen gets called up this year. Also I would rather Reyes stay in the minors this year and get a ton of confidence, he’ll be part of the rotation next year. I think Bennett needs to stay in the rotation, he’s been pretty effective for us there and I dont see Hampton giving us those types of innings/results
JoshQ–.350 probably is more likely than playing 150 games, but Charles asked about .400 vs playing enough games to qualify for the batting title. Hitting .400 is exceptionally difficult so even with a propensity for getting hurt I think playing enough games is more likely.
I think there’s a solid chance of both Hansen and Jo Jo Reyes getting a shot to be in the rotation next year, since I suspect Glavine is pitching his final season and Hampton will finally be off the books.
Because I think we have really good young starters within our organization, we can then hopefully spend that money on teixeira or a bat comparable to Tex.
david15,
For starters, that study has very little to do with what happened last night.
We’re talking about individual judgments (by runners & coaches) on individual plays in individual situations—like you are down by 4 runs, a teetering Chuck James is on the mound & 2 of your better hitters are coming up. I’m not sure there’s algebra for that.
IMO, anyone saying, “Well, they had to make a 2 perfect plays to ruin our inning—so it’s a good gamble,” truly misses the point. Florida made a dumb play to give Atlanta any opportunity to ruin their inning.
The reason you don’t send the guy is because, if you don’t, you have zero chance of making an out there.
1) I don’t expect Chipper to hit .400 this year, but I hope he does.
2) BTW: I just looked and noticed that Renteria is hitting .337 now. I still like the trade, but nice to see he’s bounced back.
3) Anybody know what Cliff Lee sacrificed to the pitching gods to get this start? He’s 4-0 with a 0.28 ERA in 31.2 innings (including a complete game), he’s only given up one earned run all year… wild.
According to Mac, Cliff Lee pitched a no hitter in his APBA league (which he and other play a simulated 162 game schedule based on previous year’s stats) so maybe Lee has gotten juiced by his imaginary APBA performance?
if the third base coach is standing there thinking of by-the-book baseball strategy, hes not doing his job. the play was right in front of him and he thought the runner would score. he was wrong this time, but if the coaches were never wrong, there would never be a runner thrown out. i like coaches that force the other team to throw the ball around and make perfect plays.
My bet is that Soriano comes back sooner than Glavine
Glavine is set to start on Tuesday? No?
if his session today or tomorrow goes well, then Glavine will pitch on Tuesday. Soriano is suppose to throw off the mound today and Sunday and they’ll re-evaluate him after that. My guess is we should have both of them back by next Tuesday or Wednesday.
If you did not get to see the McCann triple, it is on youtube. Try this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wio-n4ju1Fs
If that doesn’t work, go to youtube and search on mccann triple.
It is worth a look, and watch for Chipper’s reaction afterwards. Warning, don’t be holding your coffee.
Question (for Falcons fans):
Which of the following options are you hoping for?
(A) Take Dorsey
(B) Take Ryan
(C) Trade back to #5, pick up an extra pick from the Chiefs, and take Ellis
(D) Trade back to #8, pick up an extra pick (or two) from the Ravens, and take Clady or Williams
(E) Something else
*Note 1: I realize that C & D probably aren’t all that likely, since it’s tough to trade out of that 3rd spot.
*Note 2: I realize it’s possible that Ellis could still be around at #8, but I didn’t want to seem greedy.
*Note 3: I’d prefer C (or D, with Ellis dropping that far), but between A & B, I’d hope for A
*Note 4: I’m not even much of a Falcons fan. But this is interesting (to me), and I’m bored. Go, Titans!
I saw Chipper’s reaction to the triple last night on “Baseball Tonight”. It was great. I think the reaction was more to Mac’s slide/face plant rather than the triple itself, but the reaction was classic.
KC, I wouldn’t have sent the runner with one out either, all I was saying was that if there was an out situation where you were going to do it, one out was the time. The reason is that if you send him with nobody out, you really might cost yourself a big inning and having runners at second and third with nobody out is definitely worth more than the chance of getting that one run in now; if you send him with two outs, you might run yourself completely out of the inning; but if you send him with one out, at least they still have a chance to knock in the guy from third and since there was one out instead of none, the chances that they’re running themselves out of a big inning are slightly less. Regardless, though, I don’t think sending him was the right move, mainly for the reasons that ububba has stated. You’re down by four and you’ve got a junkballing pitcher on the ropes. The chance of cutting the lead by one really isn’t worth it when you need three more anyway. Instead, they gave James a way out of the inning.
As far as the Falcons go, I prefer option A out of all of those. If option A is unavailable, either of options C, D or E is fine with me, but under no circumstances should they even think about taking option B. Since Dimitroff is in control, I’m a little less worried that they would do that now than I would be if Blank/McKay were in control, but Dimitroff still has Blank talking in his ear and I just have this horrible feeling that they’re gonna take him. For the love of God, please don’t do it! Trade up to late in the first round so that you can take Brohm or Flocko if you have to, but I beg you, in the name of all that is holy, please don’t take Matt Ryan with the third pick in the draft! Please!
Hampton is supposed to make a rehab start in Richmond tonight. I’ll take left hamstring, 2nd inning (trying to be optimistic).
Anyone else read that article on JoJo and the heel adjustment he made? He has been lights out since the adjustment so maybe that explains the control problems when he gets called up, especially because he is likely trying too hard and overthrowing.
#61 – I read that article and they are thinking about bringing him up as a reliever at some point. Reyes can be a very solid starter if he can throw strikes. I dont like the idea of him coming up and going to the pen
I don’t like the idea of bringing Reyes up as a reliever either. He is a starter and should continue to fine tune his starting pitching.
I don’t think I like the pen idea either as ultimately he needs to make it as a starter. I shouldn’t say I hope he gets another shot at starting because that would mean someone else has gone down, but the next time it is necessary I would like to see him rather than Chuckie.
Stu,
I think I would take Doresy if I could. I don’t think Ryan is going to be much of a QB. I wasn’t oo impressed with him in college.
Go Titans
Rob Neyer has a piece on espn.com (restricted to insiders) about trying to quantify the impact of a manager. According to Bill James’ method regarding games won against number of games expected to win… Bobby’s on his way to being the best of all time.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=3366287
Stu, I am not a huge Matt Ryan fan either though Kiper loves him. To me, QB is all about opportunity. I won’t try and sound too much like a Georgia homer but I believe there are lots of guys like Shockley who are 2nd and 3rd string QB’s on teams that if given the chance in the right system, could blossom.
The Falcons have a ton of holes. If they really like Matt Ryan, my feeling is they could trade down to #5, get the extra pick, and still get Ryan at 5. Just my feeling. The one other team that desperately needs a QB in the top 5, has already inked Jake Long with the #1 pick.
I will also add that the fact that Ryan and Glenn Dorsey would be happy to go to Atlanta is actually a good reason to take one of them. The fact is, this is a franchise that’s an utter embarrassment right now and the fact that any top pick would want to go there, has got to offer this franchise some hope.
Dorsey to me is a guy (like Chris Long) who could lead your Defense for the next 15 years in the NFL. I am also a believer you build NFL teams the Parcells-Belichick way and build inside/out. Make sure the OL and DL is stacked and stable first.
I will be downright shocked if the falcons dont take Dorsey. I don’t think the rams take him since they seem content at DT and he doesnt really fit what they want to do. They are much more likely to take Long/Gholston…whereas Dorsey instantly becomes Coleman’s replacement in ATL and the D-line looks solid with Anderson, Abraham, as well. Trading Hall is a great move–front 7’s win championships, not back 4’s.
Brian Schneider is hospitalized for an infection in his thumb for 24 to 48 hours for intravenous antibiotics.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3366643
I hope the Braves packed the Lysol and whatever else. I have a sneaking suspicion this is the vancomycin resistant staph infection.
#58 – the correct answer is C. Here’s a secret: Sedrick Ellis is every bit as good if not better than Glen Dorsey and he has a much shorter injury history.
And put me down on the side of you cannot send the runner in that spot if there is greater than 0% chance of him being out. If you’ve got the 8-9 spots coming up, maybe. If John Smoltz is on the mound and he’ll probably just K the next two guys anyway, maybe. But with your best hitters coming up and Crappy Chucky James on the mound, you can not get that guy thrown out. Although I’m glad they did of course, Chuck may not have finished the inning if they hadn’t.
…and he has a much shorter injury history.
My thoughts exactly.
BTW, Alex, if the Falcons do trade back to #5, Ryan won’t be available. The only reason the Chiefs, who hold that pick, would trade up would be to get Ryan.
Nasty stuff Cliff, we transport Mersa patients 2 or 3 times a week….I take my uniform off in my garage so I dont bring it in the house!
Stu, I disagree. I think the Chiefs want to take a look for one mor eseason at Croyle. Even if Ryan is a better pro, it’s not like he’d come in right now and win right away.
My top choice would be Dorsey, and if the Rams take Long, I would stay up at three and take him. But if the Rams take Dorsey, I would certainly be OK with trading back and taking Ellis or trading back and taking somebody else. I would be OK with pretty much anything other than picking Matt Ryan. Hell, I would rather them take Chris Long (which would be pretty pointless since we already have two DEs) than Matt Ryan. We do need a QB in this draft, but trading up to late in the first round and taking either Brian Brohm or Joe Flacco is such a better choice than taking Matt Ryan with the third overall pick in the draft. Hell, take all of the draft slot values and so forth out of it. If you lined up those three QBs and asked me which one I wanted for my team irregardless of draft value, I would still pick both Brohm and Flacco over Ryan.
Falcons need a QB, the most important position in the NFL. But, of course, the Falcons need a lotta things.
So, I say, load up on good players. Just getting Matt Ryan won’t make this team a winner.
All right! Time for some Met bashing. Can’t wait.
Mets fans wear jean shorts.
lol @ 77.
Jean shorts with fanny packs.
No way Chipper hits .400. It’s been 67 years since anyone hit .400. Chipper’s a switch hitter, but much better from the left side and plays a difficult defensive position. He’s never hit above .330. Brett and Gwynn were basically line drive hitters and Brett played on turf.
But, actually, missing a lot of games could help. Brett missed, I think 20 or 30 games the year he hit .390. The fewer games you play (as long as you have enough at bats to qualify), the fewer chances to make outs.