Haha – nice interview Mac! I like your self-effacing sense of humor. Personally, I’m more of a lurker than regular poster, but I appreciate the insights offered here. There are occasional dust-ups, but trolls don’t last long (and for that I’m grateful).
FWIW, “The Road from Bristol” was probably my favorite collaborative effort I’ve seen (even if some of the comments ended up being outrageously hilariously over-the-top!)
By the way, I don’t know how many of you caught this (other than diehard FJM readers), but apparently the Pirates’ new GM brings more to the table than not being named Littlefield or Bonifay:
We are going to utilize several objective measures of player performance to evaluate and develop players. We’ll rely on the more traditional objective evaluations: OPS (on base percentage plus slugging percentage) , WHIP (walks and hits per inning pitched), Runs Created, ERC (Component ERA), GB/FB (ground ball to fly ball ratio), K/9 (strikeouts per nine innings), K/BB (strikeouts to walks ratio), BB%, etc., but we’ll also look to rely on some of the more recent variations: VORP (value over replacement player), Relative Performance, EqAve (equivalent average), EqOBP (equivalent on base percentage), EqSLG (equivalent slugging percentage), BIP% (balls put into play percentage), wOBA (weighted on base average), Range Factor, PMR (probabilistic model of range) and Zone Rating.
bmac44
on November 8, 2007 at 2:32 pm
More well deserved recognition for you and the service you provide for your readers. While I post infrequently, I read Braves Journal daily, and can always find something interesting here. Thanks Mac.
Gregson
on November 8, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Nice to see. I’ve been a regular reader but sparse poster since about 2001. Love the music discussions and SEC football ones too. But the Braves talk is the best anywhere.
Joshua
on November 8, 2007 at 2:41 pm
So Mac, I have to ask, what did the GM say in his book to make fun of you, and what did you say about him?
csg
on November 8, 2007 at 2:55 pm
gregson, well then….welcome back
is it me or do almost all the GM’s becoming more vocal about available players this year? Seems like after Wren announced our interest in Glavine to the media, things have opened up a little.
csg
on November 8, 2007 at 2:56 pm
I’m just glad to see Terrance Moore running away with the poll!
Murphy3Ever
on November 8, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Mac, nice interview. Thanks for running Braves Journal. Just found it this past season and it’s great. Even though I think it angers my wife even more that I not only watch the games (don’t know what I’ll do now, thank you TBS) but “talk” to a bunch of people I don’t know the whole time too. Heh heh.
Marc Schneider
on November 8, 2007 at 2:57 pm
This blog is what I hoped to find about the Braves when I first heard things like this on the internet. But most such blogs aren’t nearly so good and that’s a credit to you, Mac. But this means I will always be stuck being a Braves fan even if Stan Kasten wants to convert people living in DC.
Coop
on November 8, 2007 at 3:03 pm
You are THE man, Mr. Thomason, and Braves Journal is THE blog.
Thank you for creating this great forum.
csg
on November 8, 2007 at 3:09 pm
mlb rumors
The Nationals could sign Andruw Jones long-term if they felt it was a bargain – say, $13MM a year. The Giants, White Sox, and Padres may be in the mix as well. And if Scott Boras changes his tune and hunts for a one-year “rebuild value” contract for Jones, the Red Sox could get involved.
JoshQ
on November 8, 2007 at 3:22 pm
I’ve been thinking about who Atlanta will put in center next year and I’m just not sold on giving it to Lillibridge. We need a veteran and not another ‘if’. What do you guys think of DeJesus?
I’m good on DeJesus if we don’t give up too much for him. He’d be a great one or two year filler to keep the position warm for Schafer or whoever else comes down the pike.
Alex R.
on November 8, 2007 at 3:28 pm
I haven’t been on in several days, but first and foremost, great job on the interview, Mac. I can’t believe we’ve been talking about this stuff online for 10 years; of course, you and I have been “complaining together” since, what, 1993?
Just a refresher – Mac and I officially met for the very first time when we I was a freshman at the University of Alabama (before I transferred to Georgia the following year) in 1993; the specific moment we met was at an NBA Fantasy Draft down in the basement of the old Friedman hall dorm.
Mac, shockingly, was wearing a dirty old Braves hat, sitting against a wall, and yelling out snarky comments during the draft. And here we are, 14 years later!
Just a bit of Mac history for everyone.
As for the Andruw move, so not surprised the Nats would go for him. They gotta try & fill that new park up. How ironic that I might be seeing ‘Druw again on a regular basis if he comes here to DC.
I am sure yesterday everning there was a Brad Lidge to Philly discussion, but my 2 cents is this:
If I guy can’t get over a Pujols home run with a mild fan base like Houston, how is Lidge gonna be able to mentally handle those nutsy, borderline psychotic Philly fans? That move doesn’t scare me.
As long as the Phillies don’t add another starter (same with the Mets), neither team scares me.
The biggest worry for me with the Lidge deal is that it moves Myers back to the rotation. He’s real good. My biggest hope for the deal is that Lidge goes Kolbb and stinks up the joint so tremendously that they’re forced to move Myers back to the bullpen. I don’t know what the chances of that are, though.
Alex R.
on November 8, 2007 at 3:39 pm
I think Boras should start his own expansion franchise in MLB for his own clients – then HE can go and give Andruw $20 mill. a year and A-Rod, $30 mill. a year.
Alex R.
on November 8, 2007 at 3:40 pm
AAR,
I think there’s a better than 50% chance that Lidge bombs in Philly. He’s shown a fragile mental psyche and he’s just been shipped to a team that has a fan base that doubles for the inmates of an insane asylum.
Cliff
on November 8, 2007 at 3:47 pm
@15,
Wow! I thought I saw an Utley like approach and capability, but to show ahead of pace on almost every positive offensive characteristic for each age level and a similarly slanted curve or plane, the says “no moron needs to trade KJ” about as clearly as it can be said.
JoshQ
on November 8, 2007 at 3:53 pm
I think the deal makes great sense for Philly. The upside to the deal was too much to pass up. I personally don’t think that Lidge is done. He was just too good to lose it because of one home run.
Hate King
on November 8, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Philly definitely got the better end of the deal, based on the fact they gave up garbage players, but I agree with those who believe he can’t handle the Philly pressure, plus the long fly balls he gave up in Houston will now be homeruns in Philly. Wade probably could have received more for Lidge, but he fell is still in love with the players that resulted in his firing from Philadelphia.
Stu
on November 8, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Sam,
I got so excited looking at those graphs just now that I may have just peed a little.
Hate King
on November 8, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Those graphs were sweet!
The Second Spitter
on November 8, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Lidge is going to get pounded in Philly, that place is like a bandbox. It seems to me that he has too fragile a psyche to pitch in that town, with those fans, in that park….
Lidge in Philly doesn’t scare me terribly, but I still think they’ll be alright next year.
Nice bit/interview on the site there. Bravesjournal rocks. Mac rocks. The contributors rock. As Robin Zander once sang, “We’re all alright.”
OK, end of lovefest. Back to the hot stove…
Cliff
on November 8, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Great blog on ESPN.com by Jayson Stark (unfortunately on Insider).
He brings up a new issue on A-Rod. Apparently, the Yankees didn’t have to pay luxury tax on the money that Texas was paying, so opt out cost 12 million plus 27 million even if he re-signed at even money.
However, I also believe he overstated the long term effect of the luxury tax. My understanding is that stadium improvements either cut 50 cents on the dollar of tax or more. The Yankees part of the payments on their new stadium is something like half paid by savings on luxury tax.
JoshQ
on November 8, 2007 at 4:18 pm
What do you guys think about Wren stating that if we sign Glavine, that will be the extent of improving our rotation? I personally think we are putting too much stock in Hampton providing anything of substance.
Smitty
on November 8, 2007 at 4:20 pm
The Second Spitter: I am giddy just thinking about it!
DeJesus sucks! Let’s avoid him if possible. I would rather let Schaffer have a shot, hell let Thorman have a shot before DeJesus.
Though it would be fun to hear rednecks yell, “Come on D-Jesus!”
bamadan
on November 8, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Nice interview Mac. Glad you are getting more and more publicity for your excellent work. Can’t believe I’ve been reading your stuff since baseballboards lerched into fanhome …
david15
on November 8, 2007 at 4:22 pm
“And to say Mack Brown is a better recruiter than Blake is assinine. Based on talent, who has recruited more? Mack? Both suck as far as coaching goes, but Blake’s players have 1 NC as do Mack’s players.”
As I have already shown, the idea that Blake’s recruits won a national title is laughably stupid. Yes, he once claimed 20 of the 22 starters on OU’s national title team were his recruits. Just because Blake lies about something doesn’t make it true, even if he did land one or two good recruits in Chapel Hill.
Mack Brown always has better classes than Blake, and he did at UNC too. And if you think Chapel Hill is an easier place to recruit football players than Norman, OK you’re crazy.
“Carrol? In the glorified NFL that is USC?
I could recruit better than 90% of the coaches to that school.”
No, you couldn’t, and neither could anyone else who has coached there in recent memory.
“Zook? Ok, that’s a great example, but the OSU has pointed some fingers as to his practices and it’s only a matter of time before someone says something.”
So? Do you think Blake is anything more than a lying snake?
“Norton and Kevin Steele? That’s laughable. Their SCHOOLS recruit. They do not.”
Really? Baylor is a destination for high school recruits?
Coop
on November 8, 2007 at 4:30 pm
JoshQ @30: Atlanta’s Geriatric Guns?
I certainly hope Glavine’s not the only rotation solution we seek.
Wren has to be blowing smoke. Unless there is some ulterior motive, there is no way in hell that Tom Glavine is the only move we make to try to improve our pitching staff.
I know that baseball people are dumb enough to sign and trade for guys like Neifi Perez and Chris Woodward, but this is just so beyond dumb on its face that I think Wren’s lying through his teeth in order to mislead someone.
JoshQ
on November 8, 2007 at 4:37 pm
I think we need to seek another arm that is younger and would be around a little longer. It’s entirely possible that we lose Glavine, Smoltz, and Hampton at the end of 08. We’d be left with Hudson, James, Jurrjens, Reyes, Carlyle. I’d like to see us be a little more proactive.
Ububba, caught you red-handed, you closet Cheap Trick fan!
Justin Parker
on November 8, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Thats great Mac, glad to see you getting the recognition you deserve, and I hope to continue to spread the word, of course we do have quite a good group of commenters on here, and it does get heated some. But you Mac, are the star of the show, and you should take the credit when its there.
Kenny
on November 8, 2007 at 4:51 pm
That was a great interview Mac. This is by far the best site I have found for feedback on anything.
I would like the Braves to put Lillibridge in a Figgins type role. If he could play adequate outfield he would have a tremendous opportunity to backup players in multiple roles. I think he is definitely someone who could give the team a spark.
Wren quote in today’s NY Times: ““We’re going to be able to sign some free agents. We hope to improve our starting pitching, so [Glavine’s] a guy we’ll consider.”
AAR,
Ain’t no closet about it. I think Cheap Trick’s first 4 albums are great. Saw ’em twice–1977 in Columbus, Ga., opening for Foreigner (blew that boring-ass band off the stage), and 1999 in NYC with opening act Guided By Voices (it was pretty close).
Regarding the Utley/Johnson comparisson, the curcial difference is in the power department. And while KJ is younger than Utley, I really don’t think Johnson has consistent 30 HR power. I think he’ll put up 20 consistently but not 30 (although he could certainly get there once or twice in his career if things go well). But yeah. KJ’s a great asset to the team, and I’m always surprised when I hear people talking about trading him.
As for Glavine, I’d be perfectly fine if we our rotation modifications end up being adding a young arm with upside and a consistent vet who’s put up around 200 IP the last 10 years. Adding Glavine pushes Chucky down to 4th and leaves the #5 slot for Jo Jo, Jurrjens, and Hampton to fight for.
Dunno why we’d want to go out of our way to trade for a 5th starter, especially given that, while we shouldn’t count on Hampton, it’s not a foregone conclusion that he’ll provide nothing for us. It would look pretty stupid to go trade a bunch of prospects only to have to move Blanton or whomever to the ‘pen to make room for a resurgent Hampton in the rotation.
csg
on November 8, 2007 at 5:26 pm
“DeJesus sucks! Let’s avoid him if possible. I would rather let Schaffer have a shot, hell let Thorman have a shot before DeJesus.”
The guy plays above average defense, has three years left on his CHEAP contract, hits for a career .288 avg, gets on base, and can fill the CF hole for a year or two without us giving up anything of value. It might cost Thorman and Ascanio, maybe not even that much
Justin Parker
on November 8, 2007 at 5:45 pm
csg,
Moore is not foolish, he will not give up DeJesus for nothing. Something of value will have to be going the other way to make this trade happen. KC does not need Thorman, they already have a glut of players in his position. Hopefully thats the last time I have to type those words.
csg
on November 8, 2007 at 5:46 pm
11 Free Agents Named In Mitchell Report
Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe informs us that the upcoming Mitchell Report has 11 current free agents in it. The report is due out sometime around January 1st.
One of the 11 is already known, Jose Guillen. I imagine Barry Bonds is another. You could speculate all day on the rest.
dont you think the teams would like to know who these guys are before signing anyone? does it
make a difference in negotiations at this point?
csg
on November 8, 2007 at 5:49 pm
“Hopefully thats the last time I have to type those words.”
thanks…if you dont want to type those words again dont. I dont know why they would want Thorman either, but its been reported that they contacted us with an offer built around Thorman.
td
on November 8, 2007 at 5:51 pm
@35 – We’ve already made 1 move to get Jurrjens. Glavine would be the second move. A healthy Hampton would be a third difference maker, but is not likely.
I would be happy to stick with Glavine and Jurrjens as the only SP moves right now. If Hampton is healthy for a short while, let’s do our best to get him off our payroll and get a good young prospect for him. If not, we can make deals later in the year or next year for some top pitching prospects. My point is that we’ve already traded enough of the farm away and trading for only average pitchers will come at a very high premium. Having 7 guys who at least have the potential to be decent starters soon is a lot better than last year.
csg
on November 8, 2007 at 5:53 pm
KC also has reported that they want to acquire a RP this offseason. Would you be willing to part with Ascanio for DeJesus. I wouldnt give up Acosta for him at this point. I actually see Acosta as a potential starter down the road
IthacaBraves
on November 8, 2007 at 6:30 pm
I think people are overlooking the fact that Acosta is a 26 year old journeyman reliever with anything but eyepopping career statistics. I like watching him pitch and he seems to have pretty good stuff but I think many bloggers are inflating his status based on a very small sample of major league appearances in which he was pitching to most guys for the first time. Ascanio on the other had has put up good stats in his minor league career, is three years younger than Acosta and has shown the ability to improve in the minors.
IthacaBraves
on November 8, 2007 at 6:45 pm
I guess Tampa Bay wants a young major league ready or nearly ready shortstop, they’re always looking for pitching. Do you think James and Lillibridge could land us a Carl Crawford? And can Crawford even play center?
IthacaBraves, I think there isn’t a chance that the Devil Rays make that trade, because they always ask the moon. That’s why they have a perpetually-clogged outfield, and way too many prospects who don’t turn into a productive 25-man roster. If they ever get serious about making reasonable trades, it would be worth considering. I don’t think Crawford could be had for James and Lillibridge, though. I think you’d need to send James and Schafer.
By the way, here’s something interesting, especially for those (like JC) who are annoyed that few people report accurate information about HGH. David Segui on ESPN talking about using HGH:
Segui first disclosed his use of human growth hormone to ESPN last year. He acknowledges that he has had a doctor’s prescription for HGH — one of sports’ most controversial and undetectable substances — since 2001, when he was diagnosed with low levels of the hormone. But he also admits now that he used it before then to speed up his recovery from a hand injury.
“The stuff is amazing for that purpose,” Segui says. “That is how it started in baseball. When I first came in the league is when Tommy John [elbow] surgery started to become more prevalent. I remember guys coming back from [the surgery] and throwing harder. I remember hearing [of] guys using growth hormone to speed up the healing process and regenerate the tendon growth and all that stuff. That is how it became known for its healing properties. And then guys would have [other] surgeries, and that is what they would take.
“So I laugh every time I read an article that says it is a performance-enhancer. It doesn’t enhance your performance. If you are horse crap, you are going to be horse crap when you come off the [disabled list]. You’re just going to come off the DL quicker.”
“even if he did land one or two good recruits in Chapel Hill.”
He actually put together a top-15 class in about two months time.
“Mack Brown always has better classes than Blake, and he did at UNC too.”
1) that is irrelevant to who is the better recruiter and,
2) Not so much.
Being a great recruiter has nothing to do with the ranking of a recruiting class.
Seat Painter
on November 8, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Top drawer, Mac!
As a Tar Heel, I sure like what Davis is doing with the team so far. Of course, that’s the Kiss Of Death for UNC football coaches. I expect he’ll be in Fayeeteville next year.
Robert
on November 8, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Pete Carroll seems to continue to bring in awesome talent, but here’s my question with him: is California as much of a hot-bed of talent as the Southeast, and he’s just getting most of it, or is he spending a huge amount of time in other parts of the country?
Answering a question from the last thread…it’s option A there. California produces a ridiculous amount of high school football talent. At this point Carroll gets first pick of everybody, but the state fills out the rosters of UCLA, Cal, Stanford, and most of the Washington and Oregon teams too.
Carroll does go outside the state for special players or special needs. Mike Williams and Keith Rivers were pulled out of Florida. JD Booty and Joe McKnight from Louisiana. Dwayne Jarrett, Brian Cushing, Vidal Hazelton from the Jersey/Northern Virginia area. All American TE Fred Davis is from Toledo. Arizona produced two five stars guys last season and Carroll went down and took them both.
The biggest obsticle to recruiting guys to USC is that it’s located in downtown LA and surrounded by some fairly sketchy neighborhoods.
td
on November 8, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Saying USC is near some fairly sketchy neighborhoods is very graceful. I visited the campus once and made a wrong turn when I left and was very thankful to make it out with no damage to my rental car. This was in 1992, just after the riots. It was not pleasant.
david15
on November 8, 2007 at 11:29 pm
“He actually put together a top-15 class in about two months time.”
No, he didn’t. Butch Davis did. John Blake helped.
“1) that is irrelevant to who is the better recruiter and,
2) Not so much.
Being a great recruiter has nothing to do with the ranking of a recruiting class.”
How is who has consistently recruited more successfully irrelevant? When Blake was at Oklahoma and Brown at UNC and UT, Brown outrecruited him and Brown’s teams outperformed his, so by whatever measure you want to use, Brown was better. When Blake was at Nebraska and Brown at UT, Brown was better.
In what other ways would you like to evaluate their classes? On field success? How are all those great recruits Blake got at Nebraska doing, anyway?
Dan
on November 8, 2007 at 11:49 pm
The bright sun logo for the Rays’ uniforms looks kind of stupid.
I guess the only thing I REALLY like about it is the hat. That looks nice.
urlhix
on November 9, 2007 at 12:24 am
For some reason, “The Tampa Bay Rays” reminds me of Chico’s Bail Bonds and East Bay Ray at the same time. Nice!
chris
on November 9, 2007 at 1:05 am
Actually, was Mack at Texas when Blake was at Oklahoma?
Blake was there from 1996-1998
Brown entered UT in 1997.
So, saying Brown “out recruited” Blake for one season is, like I said, assinine. Even IF you think this, which is easier to recruit to: Austin or Norman? (I guess you don’t like people using your own pretty horrid arguments)
And if you think Norman, OK is harder to recruit kids to for FOOTBALL than Chapel Hill, especially recently, you are smoking more than just crack.
Norman may suck as a place to live, but it is one of the few places football players are still considered Gods. in Chapel Hill, they don’t even KNOW who their football players are (awww, I love my Tarheels). Better still is the fact that Blake had 2 months to work, after Bunting and being a new guy.
Blake, and this is not just me saying this, this is ALOT of people, is the best recruiter consistently in the NCAA.
Now, if only baseball would start.
Rob Copenhaver
on November 9, 2007 at 1:11 am
I kinda like the new Rays stuff, but I don’t really see the point. Like, I’m going to driving through downtown St. Pete and I’m going to be seeing Rays of sunshine instead of Devil Rays, and it’s just gonna seem kinda fruity. But, it does have a “nicer” feel to it.
John
on November 9, 2007 at 1:33 am
I remember when I found this place after doing a google search that was eric gregg satan because I wanted to get pissed off about the 97 NLCS for the umpteenth time. I ended up getting some sort of march madness bracket of most hated sports personalities (for those who don’t remember it), the road from bristol for most hated espn vermin and various posters among them guys named eric and gregg had called skip bayless satan. I hate skip bayless but I knew I liked this site for putting the contest on and started reading then (circa early summer 2005).
Thanks Mac and congratulations
urlhix
on November 9, 2007 at 1:46 am
I think it’s really funny that they are using a sun in their new logo and they play indoors. Someone in marketing has a wicked sense of humor.
urlhix
on November 9, 2007 at 1:53 am
And Mac, didn’t you mention the “Eric Gregg Satan” search showing up in a Google referral log in one of your posts long ago (2005, I guess)? If so, what a very cool full circle.
I think I found this blog after I started my own for a college class. I was looking for other Braves blogs, and well, it was a given that I’d end up here. 🙂
Congrats, Mac. I’ve read here for a long time, though i don’t comment as much as I used to. But I’ve always appreciated your work here.
For some reason, I always assumed you were an engineer of some sort…
Murphy3Ever
on November 9, 2007 at 9:34 am
I second the notion of whomever it was that suggested we give up anything the padres would want for Peavy. Maybe we could swing a deal to give the entire Danville team for Peavy and the entire Rome team for Bedard. heh heh.
I too sure hope Wren is just blowing smoke about no more changes to the rotation. We just can’t count on anything from Hampton and it seems like the plan should be made accordingly. Anything at all that he contributes should be considered a bonus.
Marc Schneider
on November 9, 2007 at 9:52 am
Wren has already brought in a young prospect with the potential to help the staff. Glavine would obviously be a short-term measure. I’m not sure what else we can expect Wren to do this year. It’s not like teams are looking to trade starting pitching–even assuming Bedard and Peavy are available, I’m not sure the Braves have enough to get them. I assume the Padres would want MLB-ready players. If he can change over 2/5 of the staff in the offseason, that strikes me as pretty good. I don’t see anyone in free agency that really seems worth breaking the bank over.
The Chass article was idiotic. Tampa hasn’t really been given major league baseball and it has an awful stadium. The Marlins play in a football stadium and, from a friend in the area, there is still a lot of bitterness over Huizenga (who seems to be doing the same thing to the Dolphins). Obviously, Miami and Tampa aren’t likely to be New York and Boston in terms of baseball passion but saying lop them off the map is stupid.
Seat Painter
on November 9, 2007 at 9:52 am
Even if we could convince SD to give up Peavy (and that’s a big IF), what is his contract situation? I wouldn’t want him to walk out after a year or so with us getting nothing in return.
With Heyward, Jurrjens, Schaeffer, Hernandez, Lillibridge, and the rest of the minor league players, I think the Braves have a chance to be the Rockies/D’backs of 2010. Let’s not waste that chance lightly.
Stu
on November 9, 2007 at 10:14 am
I would be totally in favor of trading Danville and Rome for Peavy and Bedard.
chris
on November 9, 2007 at 10:20 am
Huh? We got some talent in both places. Let’s all put down the rubber cement and step away from our monitors.
chris
on November 9, 2007 at 10:37 am
oh, mlbtraderumors (ok, I know, but still) says that Sheets is available.
now…what on earth might the brewers need (i say him @ 11 mil a year for the next two years is more reasonable than one year of most anyone else)? b. jones and prado plus a high-ceiling A pitcher?
hankonly
on November 9, 2007 at 10:39 am
The Rays should go ahead and move to Orlando and play at Disney’s delightful facility. Piggybacking the Mouse has paid off for more than one struggling entity.
As to Peavy: If Wren wants to announce to the baseball world that there’s some new suspenders in town, he should find a way to get Peavy. Best stuff I’ve ever seen.
Remember the game two years ago where he lost on the fluke homer by Langerhans? I’ve never seen such movement.
I know it would take a lot, but it would be worth it.
Stu
on November 9, 2007 at 10:42 am
Sheets would cost way more than that. And he’s mighty injury prone. He and AJ Burnett are about the same value, IMO, only I suspect Burnett would be slightly cheaper.
Andy H.
on November 9, 2007 at 10:48 am
“The Rays should go ahead and move to Orlando and play at Disney’s delightful facility. Piggybacking the Mouse has paid off for more than one struggling entity.”
I went to a minor league game there a few years ago when they still had a team. There couldn’t have been more than 250 people in the stadium. With Disney etc. literally next door, I don’t think a team would ever draw well.
The problem with Florida baseball is terrible management for both teams. Well, ownership. Florida has actually had very good GMs, I think.
Murphy3Ever
on November 9, 2007 at 10:49 am
79 — trading an entire class of baseball for 1 player was just for giggles. Notice the “heh heh” at the end of the suggestion. my fault though — I should know by now that sarcasm just doesn’t work too well in this medium.
77 — I know Wren has said that they think Jar-Jar is near ready / ready. But is everyone really convinced of this? If he is, then that’s great. I think he was a good pickup whether he’s ready this season or next. They’re saying the same with Jo-Jo too. Is he really ready? I don’t think we’d complain if Jar-Jar and Jo-Jo had the chance to get a little more work in before we have to rely on them.
If these big arms really are available (my personal opinion is that it’s just all talk because there aren’t many FA’s available) then we should at least make some offers.
For what it’s worth (not much) I think Peavy has 2 years left. And the Padres would certainly be needing MLB ready players to give up their staff ace.
Sheets is intriguing. They love him up here (I’m in Madison, WI). But he’s just not dependable due to health.
Ron
on November 9, 2007 at 10:54 am
James, Jurjens, and Gorkys Hernandez for Peavy maybe?
Peavy is making $6 million next season and there’s an $8 million club option for 2009.
I don’t know who the Braves could possibly trade for Peavy without it crippling them a bit.
Jeremy
on November 9, 2007 at 11:26 am
Great interview, Mac! This is honestly one of the best blogs on the web, and checking it is a highlight of my day. I wish all sports journalists were as talented as you.
Ron
on November 9, 2007 at 11:32 am
Not sure I see how trading for Peavy would cripple the Braves. Adding him would be an enormous improvement. If Wren could swing that, then he could forgo signing Glavine so money wouldn’t be an issue.
Marc Schneider
on November 9, 2007 at 11:36 am
I don’t see why the Pads would trade Peavey, at least not for prospects. Why the hell would they trade him for James, Jurrjens and Hernandez? He is inexpensive for the next two years and I’m sure they Padres think they should be contenders. If they trade Peavey for prospects, they can forget about contending and I don’t see why they would build for the future when the play in a very winnable division in a very winnable league. If I’m the Padres, I’m doing the opposite–doing everything I can to win in the next two years.
Joshua
on November 9, 2007 at 11:38 am
Peavy = never going to happen…
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 11:43 am
its fund to speculate on getting these guys, but we have no chance at Peavy or Arod. Why we would even talk about Sheets is beyond me, the guy hasnt pitched more than 130 innings in the last three years. He’s dominant when healthy, but he’s turning into another Carl Pavano
td
on November 9, 2007 at 11:46 am
The question is should we try to keep a few prospects so we can have a decent team a few years from now, or should we trade away guys who may be future stars.
Let’s assume that the Glavine’s salary would be about the same as another pitcher who would be better (Peavy, Sheets, …). I just don’t think that given the injury risks, gutting our farm system even more is worth the risk. Glavine is a one to two year stopgap until our minor leaguers develop or we trade for another top pitching prospect.
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 11:46 am
“I don’t see why the Pads would trade Peavy”
they arent going to trade him, the Pads have to rely on their pitching because they have one of the worst offensive teams in the league. After losing Cameron, they have nothing. If Peavy goes it’ll be for some big bats and other teams paying most of the salaries. We could trade them Tex for Peavy and eat about half of Tex’s contract. Then they would probably require him to sign an extension before accepting the offer
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 11:49 am
I dont see why some people complain about not getting the money’s worth out of Glavine, who has never pitched less than 185IP in any season and has been in the top 5 NL for QS the last two years, but they want to take a chance on Sheets who cant walk on the field without getting hurt. I’ll take the one year of Glavine at 7-8 mil instead of Sheets and trading away more of our farm system.
Andy H.
on November 9, 2007 at 11:50 am
I doubt Peavy and Bedard et al are being shopped. My guess is that teams realize the demand for pitching and are simply willing to listen to offers, hoping that someone will overpay and/or offer a huge package like the Braves did for Teixeira. I think the Tex trade was a good one, but I’m wary of putting together another deal like that one. We need to keep the farm system stocked.
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 11:54 am
another reason to pass on Sheets
Sheets has only one year left on his contract at $11 million
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 11:56 am
Moore on DeJesus
KC’s DeJesus popular on trade market?
Royal David DeJesus is drawing considerable interest from several clubs that need a center fielder. Part of his attraction is cost certainty: DeJesus, 27, is signed for $13.3 million over the next four years — a relative bargain in today’s market. Many teams don’t want to enter the bidding for Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones or Aaron Rowand. That reluctance is spiking the value of Boston’s Coco Crisp, who appears expendable because of Jacoby Ellsbury’s emergence. So teams are calling about DeJesus, believing the Royals have an alternative in Joey Gathright, who batted .307 with a .371 on-base percentage in 74 games. “A lot of people are interested in David,” Royals general manager Dayton Moore confirmed, “but I just don’t see it. We’ve got to hold on to that guy.” — KC Star
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 11:57 am
we should get Javy Lopez back to backup McCann
Ron
on November 9, 2007 at 11:59 am
The way I look at is that next year (2008) is going to be the Braves’ best chance at winning a championship for quite a while considering free agents and retirements after that. Adding Peavy to go with Hudson and Smoltz would make the Braves the odds on favorite to win the NL. If we could trade some minor leaguers who may never pan out and maybe a non-crucial major leaguer or two to get him, then why not go for it? It’s the same logic for getting Teixeira this summer. By renting Tex for a year and a half, the Braves have already committed to trying to win a championship in ’07 and ’08. So if Peavy really was available for a large package of minor leaguers, it would only make sense to pursue it.
Ron
on November 9, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Lopez is a poor defender and a shell of the hitter he once was. It wouldn’t shock me at all if he is in the Mitchell report too. I’d rather let Sammons or Pena backup McCann.
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Ron, Peavy wont be available for a “bunch of minor leaguers who may or may not pan out.” Peavy is the best pitcher in MLB and the Pads are going to want the king’s ransom for that guy. Would you be willing to offer KJ, James, Heyward, Schafer and/or Hernandez? I wonder if thats enough
Ron
on November 9, 2007 at 12:14 pm
KJ, James, Heyward, and one of Schaefer/Hernandez for Peavy… yes I would do that.
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 12:17 pm
what about both
chris
on November 9, 2007 at 12:18 pm
#101–Peavy is the best pitcher in MLB
Ummmm…paging mr santana…mr santana…has anyone seen mr santana?
#102–KJ, James, Heyward, and one of Schaefer/Hernandez for Peavy… yes I would do that.
Ummmm…and that is why they don’t pay you the BIG BUCKS to be the Braves GM.
Heyward will be our next 1B when Tex walks…giving us the $ to go after Santana.
Joshua
on November 9, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Peavy is not the best pitcher in MLB. That honor is reserved for another guy who is said to be available – Santana.
Joshua
on November 9, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Is Heyward that far along in his development?
Stu
on November 9, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Well, Heyward won’t be ready in 2009, but yeah, he’s our long-term solution there (or in the OF, if we somehow extend Teix), and he’s probably the only player in our system whom I wouldn’t trade if I were GM.
Justin Parker
on November 9, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Chris, Heyward is at least three years away, and if Tex isn’t extended, then Atlanta would need a 1b in ’09. Not that I advocate trading Heyward, but I’m just saying that it’s more likely that someone esle will be our next firstbaseman. I would give up KJ/James/Hernandez for Peavey, but not Heyward.
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 12:35 pm
#105 – sorry I meant NL
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 12:37 pm
does anyone think that the Pads would take KJ, James, and Hernandez for Peavy? I think they would laugh in our face
Justin Parker
on November 9, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Two valuable major leaguers under control for a while, and an exciting prospect yeah why not.
Stu
on November 9, 2007 at 12:49 pm
I don’t think they’d laugh, because I think that’s a reasonable offer, but I suspect that a bidding war with other teams would lead to more having to be included.
Hate King
on November 9, 2007 at 12:49 pm
In any trade for Peavy, Santan, or Bedard, their current team is going to want at least one high-ceiling starting pitching prospect in return.
Stephen
on November 9, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Mac–Thanks for the link–I really enjoyed the interview–even if it made me want to go check JS’s book….More important, next year we will have to commemorate 10 years of Braves Journal. Well Done!
Marc Schneider
on November 9, 2007 at 12:59 pm
@95,
I don’t Peavey is being shopped but I wouldn’t be surprised if Bedard is. The O’s are in such a mess that they need a lot more than one pitcher. I heard on a radio talk show up here (DC area) from a guy that has been covering the O’s forever that basically everyone, including Bedard, is available for the right price. Of course, this assumes that Andy McPhail is actually running the show because Peter Angelos wouldn’t have pulled the trigger to get Babe Ruth. I think Bedard is available but it would take a lot to get him.
Murphy3Ever
on November 9, 2007 at 1:19 pm
95 — I really don’t think Peavy and Bedard are available. It’s a pipe dream to speculate about welcoming them aboard. Fun to dream.
I still think that the only reason these names are coming up in talks is due to the lack of free agents. I really don’t think a deal for Peavy or Bedard will happen.
Ron
on November 9, 2007 at 1:21 pm
#104, “Heyward will be our next 1B when Tex walks”
That’s showing a lot of confidence in a player who has no major league at bats. Scot Thorman was supposed to be our first baseman of the future and look how well that turned out. I’d worry about who plays first base after next season if it meant I could get Peavy and win a championship this season.
“…giving us the $ to go after Santana.”
Except Santana is likely to be traded this offseason and whoever trades for him will surely immediately sign him to an extension. He isn’t going to be available for the Braves next year. The Braves couldn’t outbid the 2 New York teams, the 2 LA teams, the Red Sox, and any other team that decided to throw a lot of money at him even if he were available.
Murphy3Ever
on November 9, 2007 at 1:41 pm
McPhail has said that no Oriole is off limits.
But I can’t help but think that it sounds like my approach with my fantasy teams — if you bowl me over with an offer, then I’ll take it. Otherwise, I’m keeping my best players, thanks.
csg
on November 9, 2007 at 2:12 pm
The Orioles have declared Tejada available for what it seems like the last 5 years. Every year teams make offers, but then the become reluctant to move him. If they wont move a player who has lost his range and possibly his power for a bunch of prospects/postion players to improve their team, I highly doubt they’ll move Bedard.
@84 – I’m actually in Madison too. Well, I’ll be back in January, I’m currently in Baltimore doing research. That’s sweet.
Anyway, the chances of the Braves attaining any primetime major league pitcher – Bedard, Santana, Peavy, Sheets, Burnett – are very very slim. Actually, I think they’re nonexistent, and probably not even on Wren’s radar. I think he’s telling the truth when he says that Glavine will be it. So, while I too cringe at the thought of our incredibly old staff, I can only hope that (1) James becomes more durable and figures out a way to go an inning more in his starts, and (2) either Reyes or Jurrjens is ready to contribute now. As for Hampton… well, color me less than optimistic.
Teixera seems like a bright guy, but what kind of interview was that? She asked more about his favorite football team than about the Braves. Wouldn’t you ask something about the free agency situation–not that he would answer.
I thought the same thing, but I would think that Teixeira was instructed not to talk about it by someone. Besides, if he was asked about it, Teixeira probbaly wouldn’t give a straight answer.
Stu
on November 9, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Guys, it’s a Chop Talk interview. Those are generally all about players’ off-field lives, not contract situations.
Anyone else think we might be giving up too soon on The Mighty Thor?
I think he’s a daily Xanax away from being at least as valuable as was LaRoche.
Would love to keep Teix, but the anti-Christ will probably demand the moon and stars …
Robert
on November 9, 2007 at 3:54 pm
SEC picks this week?
A nation awaits. Can’t skip this week, the SEC actually has a reasonable slate of games. Only one cupcake.
Stu
on November 9, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Unlike your average weekly in-conference Pac-10 schedule, in which at least half of the teams play a cupcake.
Robert
on November 9, 2007 at 4:08 pm
I think he’s a daily Xanax away from being at least as valuable as was LaRoche.
Just for fun:
Age 23:
Thorman
AA .305/.360/.506/.866 in 384 PAs
AAA .276/.313/.438/.751 in 219 PAs
LaRoche
AA .283/.381/.511/.892 in 253 PAs
AAA .295/.360/.466/.826 in 291 PAs
Age 24:
Thorman
AAA .298/.360/.508/.868 in 340 PAs
MLB .234/.263/.438/.701 in 133 PAs
LaRoche
MLB .278/.333/.488/.821 in 351 PAs
LaRoche’s age 25 season was so-so at the major league level, Thorman’s was of course a career-threatening disaster. LaRoche broke out a age 26, it’s questionable whether anyone would give Thorman enough PAs at this point to break out.
Thorman has been a little behind LaRoche the whole way but they are not that dissimilar. Look at LaRoche line for his last year at AAA vs Thorman’s line for his last year at AAA.
So yeah, I agree he could be valuable at some point, although I doubt it will be in a Braves uniform.
Robert
on November 9, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Unlike your average weekly in-conference Pac-10 schedule, in which at least half of the teams play a cupcake.
Clever. Never heard that one before. Sticking with the talking points.
Stu
on November 9, 2007 at 4:11 pm
We hear from you every week how bad the SEC’s non-conference schedule is, Robert. Didn’t seem like originality was something you find desirable in a post related to college football. My mistake.
Robert
on November 9, 2007 at 4:14 pm
That’s fine. At least you didn’t dig up the “It has to be this way. The SEC is soooooo tough” line. It’s a classic though.
Marc Schneider
on November 9, 2007 at 4:29 pm
Now, boys, let’s behave. The SEC and Pac-10 are both fine conferences. Can’t we all just learn to get along? (:
Somebody in the Braves organization thought Thorman could play. I suspect he can but, like Robert, I doubt it will be for the Braves.
urlhix
on November 9, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Brrrrr. Getting cold again tonight. Better throw another log on the fire…
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
Haha – nice interview Mac! I like your self-effacing sense of humor. Personally, I’m more of a lurker than regular poster, but I appreciate the insights offered here. There are occasional dust-ups, but trolls don’t last long (and for that I’m grateful).
FWIW, “The Road from Bristol” was probably my favorite collaborative effort I’ve seen (even if some of the comments ended up being outrageously hilariously over-the-top!)
Looks good to me, Mac!
By the way, I don’t know how many of you caught this (other than diehard FJM readers), but apparently the Pirates’ new GM brings more to the table than not being named Littlefield or Bonifay:
More well deserved recognition for you and the service you provide for your readers. While I post infrequently, I read Braves Journal daily, and can always find something interesting here. Thanks Mac.
Nice to see. I’ve been a regular reader but sparse poster since about 2001. Love the music discussions and SEC football ones too. But the Braves talk is the best anywhere.
So Mac, I have to ask, what did the GM say in his book to make fun of you, and what did you say about him?
gregson, well then….welcome back
is it me or do almost all the GM’s becoming more vocal about available players this year? Seems like after Wren announced our interest in Glavine to the media, things have opened up a little.
I’m just glad to see Terrance Moore running away with the poll!
Mac, nice interview. Thanks for running Braves Journal. Just found it this past season and it’s great. Even though I think it angers my wife even more that I not only watch the games (don’t know what I’ll do now, thank you TBS) but “talk” to a bunch of people I don’t know the whole time too. Heh heh.
This blog is what I hoped to find about the Braves when I first heard things like this on the internet. But most such blogs aren’t nearly so good and that’s a credit to you, Mac. But this means I will always be stuck being a Braves fan even if Stan Kasten wants to convert people living in DC.
You are THE man, Mr. Thomason, and Braves Journal is THE blog.
Thank you for creating this great forum.
mlb rumors
The Nationals could sign Andruw Jones long-term if they felt it was a bargain – say, $13MM a year. The Giants, White Sox, and Padres may be in the mix as well. And if Scott Boras changes his tune and hunts for a one-year “rebuild value” contract for Jones, the Red Sox could get involved.
I’ve been thinking about who Atlanta will put in center next year and I’m just not sold on giving it to Lillibridge. We need a veteran and not another ‘if’. What do you guys think of DeJesus?
I’m good on DeJesus if we don’t give up too much for him. He’d be a great one or two year filler to keep the position warm for Schafer or whoever else comes down the pike.
I haven’t been on in several days, but first and foremost, great job on the interview, Mac. I can’t believe we’ve been talking about this stuff online for 10 years; of course, you and I have been “complaining together” since, what, 1993?
Just a refresher – Mac and I officially met for the very first time when we I was a freshman at the University of Alabama (before I transferred to Georgia the following year) in 1993; the specific moment we met was at an NBA Fantasy Draft down in the basement of the old Friedman hall dorm.
Mac, shockingly, was wearing a dirty old Braves hat, sitting against a wall, and yelling out snarky comments during the draft. And here we are, 14 years later!
Just a bit of Mac history for everyone.
As for the Andruw move, so not surprised the Nats would go for him. They gotta try & fill that new park up. How ironic that I might be seeing ‘Druw again on a regular basis if he comes here to DC.
I am sure yesterday everning there was a Brad Lidge to Philly discussion, but my 2 cents is this:
If I guy can’t get over a Pujols home run with a mild fan base like Houston, how is Lidge gonna be able to mentally handle those nutsy, borderline psychotic Philly fans? That move doesn’t scare me.
As long as the Phillies don’t add another starter (same with the Mets), neither team scares me.
Kelly Johnson vs. Chase Utley on fangraphs.com
http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=2234&playerid2=1679&playerid3=&position=2B&page=0&type=full
Pointed out by McCarroll at Braves Nation. Enjoy. 🙂
By the way, I was scrolling through the other thread…
1. I would give up pretty much anything for the Braves to land lifelong Braves fan and ace, Jake Peavy.
2. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, AAR!!!!!
If it gets to the point that Andruw would consider a $13 million/year contract, then the Braves should jump back into the bidding for him.
Thanks, Alex!
The biggest worry for me with the Lidge deal is that it moves Myers back to the rotation. He’s real good. My biggest hope for the deal is that Lidge goes Kolbb and stinks up the joint so tremendously that they’re forced to move Myers back to the bullpen. I don’t know what the chances of that are, though.
I think Boras should start his own expansion franchise in MLB for his own clients – then HE can go and give Andruw $20 mill. a year and A-Rod, $30 mill. a year.
AAR,
I think there’s a better than 50% chance that Lidge bombs in Philly. He’s shown a fragile mental psyche and he’s just been shipped to a team that has a fan base that doubles for the inmates of an insane asylum.
@15,
Wow! I thought I saw an Utley like approach and capability, but to show ahead of pace on almost every positive offensive characteristic for each age level and a similarly slanted curve or plane, the says “no moron needs to trade KJ” about as clearly as it can be said.
I think the deal makes great sense for Philly. The upside to the deal was too much to pass up. I personally don’t think that Lidge is done. He was just too good to lose it because of one home run.
Philly definitely got the better end of the deal, based on the fact they gave up garbage players, but I agree with those who believe he can’t handle the Philly pressure, plus the long fly balls he gave up in Houston will now be homeruns in Philly. Wade probably could have received more for Lidge, but he fell is still in love with the players that resulted in his firing from Philadelphia.
Sam,
I got so excited looking at those graphs just now that I may have just peed a little.
Those graphs were sweet!
Lidge is going to get pounded in Philly, that place is like a bandbox. It seems to me that he has too fragile a psyche to pitch in that town, with those fans, in that park….
Hee hee, I’m glad they were pointed out to me so I could show you guys. 🙂
Lidge in Philly doesn’t scare me terribly, but I still think they’ll be alright next year.
Nice bit/interview on the site there. Bravesjournal rocks. Mac rocks. The contributors rock. As Robin Zander once sang, “We’re all alright.”
OK, end of lovefest. Back to the hot stove…
Great blog on ESPN.com by Jayson Stark (unfortunately on Insider).
He brings up a new issue on A-Rod. Apparently, the Yankees didn’t have to pay luxury tax on the money that Texas was paying, so opt out cost 12 million plus 27 million even if he re-signed at even money.
However, I also believe he overstated the long term effect of the luxury tax. My understanding is that stadium improvements either cut 50 cents on the dollar of tax or more. The Yankees part of the payments on their new stadium is something like half paid by savings on luxury tax.
What do you guys think about Wren stating that if we sign Glavine, that will be the extent of improving our rotation? I personally think we are putting too much stock in Hampton providing anything of substance.
The Second Spitter: I am giddy just thinking about it!
DeJesus sucks! Let’s avoid him if possible. I would rather let Schaffer have a shot, hell let Thorman have a shot before DeJesus.
Though it would be fun to hear rednecks yell, “Come on D-Jesus!”
Nice interview Mac. Glad you are getting more and more publicity for your excellent work. Can’t believe I’ve been reading your stuff since baseballboards lerched into fanhome …
“And to say Mack Brown is a better recruiter than Blake is assinine. Based on talent, who has recruited more? Mack? Both suck as far as coaching goes, but Blake’s players have 1 NC as do Mack’s players.”
As I have already shown, the idea that Blake’s recruits won a national title is laughably stupid. Yes, he once claimed 20 of the 22 starters on OU’s national title team were his recruits. Just because Blake lies about something doesn’t make it true, even if he did land one or two good recruits in Chapel Hill.
Mack Brown always has better classes than Blake, and he did at UNC too. And if you think Chapel Hill is an easier place to recruit football players than Norman, OK you’re crazy.
“Carrol? In the glorified NFL that is USC?
I could recruit better than 90% of the coaches to that school.”
No, you couldn’t, and neither could anyone else who has coached there in recent memory.
“Zook? Ok, that’s a great example, but the OSU has pointed some fingers as to his practices and it’s only a matter of time before someone says something.”
So? Do you think Blake is anything more than a lying snake?
“Norton and Kevin Steele? That’s laughable. Their SCHOOLS recruit. They do not.”
Really? Baylor is a destination for high school recruits?
JoshQ @30: Atlanta’s Geriatric Guns?
I certainly hope Glavine’s not the only rotation solution we seek.
Wren has to be blowing smoke. Unless there is some ulterior motive, there is no way in hell that Tom Glavine is the only move we make to try to improve our pitching staff.
I know that baseball people are dumb enough to sign and trade for guys like Neifi Perez and Chris Woodward, but this is just so beyond dumb on its face that I think Wren’s lying through his teeth in order to mislead someone.
I think we need to seek another arm that is younger and would be around a little longer. It’s entirely possible that we lose Glavine, Smoltz, and Hampton at the end of 08. We’d be left with Hudson, James, Jurrjens, Reyes, Carlyle. I’d like to see us be a little more proactive.
Ububba, caught you red-handed, you closet Cheap Trick fan!
Thats great Mac, glad to see you getting the recognition you deserve, and I hope to continue to spread the word, of course we do have quite a good group of commenters on here, and it does get heated some. But you Mac, are the star of the show, and you should take the credit when its there.
That was a great interview Mac. This is by far the best site I have found for feedback on anything.
I would like the Braves to put Lillibridge in a Figgins type role. If he could play adequate outfield he would have a tremendous opportunity to backup players in multiple roles. I think he is definitely someone who could give the team a spark.
Wren quote in today’s NY Times: ““We’re going to be able to sign some free agents. We hope to improve our starting pitching, so [Glavine’s] a guy we’ll consider.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/sports/baseball/08base.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin
AAR,
Ain’t no closet about it. I think Cheap Trick’s first 4 albums are great. Saw ’em twice–1977 in Columbus, Ga., opening for Foreigner (blew that boring-ass band off the stage), and 1999 in NYC with opening act Guided By Voices (it was pretty close).
Anyone has facebook and wants to support braves heres a link
http://apps.facebook.com/atlantabravesfan/invite.php?id=312081
Regarding the Utley/Johnson comparisson, the curcial difference is in the power department. And while KJ is younger than Utley, I really don’t think Johnson has consistent 30 HR power. I think he’ll put up 20 consistently but not 30 (although he could certainly get there once or twice in his career if things go well). But yeah. KJ’s a great asset to the team, and I’m always surprised when I hear people talking about trading him.
As for Glavine, I’d be perfectly fine if we our rotation modifications end up being adding a young arm with upside and a consistent vet who’s put up around 200 IP the last 10 years. Adding Glavine pushes Chucky down to 4th and leaves the #5 slot for Jo Jo, Jurrjens, and Hampton to fight for.
Dunno why we’d want to go out of our way to trade for a 5th starter, especially given that, while we shouldn’t count on Hampton, it’s not a foregone conclusion that he’ll provide nothing for us. It would look pretty stupid to go trade a bunch of prospects only to have to move Blanton or whomever to the ‘pen to make room for a resurgent Hampton in the rotation.
“DeJesus sucks! Let’s avoid him if possible. I would rather let Schaffer have a shot, hell let Thorman have a shot before DeJesus.”
The guy plays above average defense, has three years left on his CHEAP contract, hits for a career .288 avg, gets on base, and can fill the CF hole for a year or two without us giving up anything of value. It might cost Thorman and Ascanio, maybe not even that much
csg,
Moore is not foolish, he will not give up DeJesus for nothing. Something of value will have to be going the other way to make this trade happen. KC does not need Thorman, they already have a glut of players in his position. Hopefully thats the last time I have to type those words.
11 Free Agents Named In Mitchell Report
Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe informs us that the upcoming Mitchell Report has 11 current free agents in it. The report is due out sometime around January 1st.
One of the 11 is already known, Jose Guillen. I imagine Barry Bonds is another. You could speculate all day on the rest.
dont you think the teams would like to know who these guys are before signing anyone? does it
make a difference in negotiations at this point?
“Hopefully thats the last time I have to type those words.”
thanks…if you dont want to type those words again dont. I dont know why they would want Thorman either, but its been reported that they contacted us with an offer built around Thorman.
@35 – We’ve already made 1 move to get Jurrjens. Glavine would be the second move. A healthy Hampton would be a third difference maker, but is not likely.
I would be happy to stick with Glavine and Jurrjens as the only SP moves right now. If Hampton is healthy for a short while, let’s do our best to get him off our payroll and get a good young prospect for him. If not, we can make deals later in the year or next year for some top pitching prospects. My point is that we’ve already traded enough of the farm away and trading for only average pitchers will come at a very high premium. Having 7 guys who at least have the potential to be decent starters soon is a lot better than last year.
KC also has reported that they want to acquire a RP this offseason. Would you be willing to part with Ascanio for DeJesus. I wouldnt give up Acosta for him at this point. I actually see Acosta as a potential starter down the road
I think people are overlooking the fact that Acosta is a 26 year old journeyman reliever with anything but eyepopping career statistics. I like watching him pitch and he seems to have pretty good stuff but I think many bloggers are inflating his status based on a very small sample of major league appearances in which he was pitching to most guys for the first time. Ascanio on the other had has put up good stats in his minor league career, is three years younger than Acosta and has shown the ability to improve in the minors.
I guess Tampa Bay wants a young major league ready or nearly ready shortstop, they’re always looking for pitching. Do you think James and Lillibridge could land us a Carl Crawford? And can Crawford even play center?
IthacaBraves, I think there isn’t a chance that the Devil Rays make that trade, because they always ask the moon. That’s why they have a perpetually-clogged outfield, and way too many prospects who don’t turn into a productive 25-man roster. If they ever get serious about making reasonable trades, it would be worth considering. I don’t think Crawford could be had for James and Lillibridge, though. I think you’d need to send James and Schafer.
Do you think they’d look at James and Gorkys?
By the way, here’s something interesting, especially for those (like JC) who are annoyed that few people report accurate information about HGH. David Segui on ESPN talking about using HGH:
Murray Chass on the notion of lopping off the entire state of Florida from MLB.
BTW, the Devil Rays will be “born again” next year. They’re dropping the Devil & just going with Rays.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/sports/baseball/08chass.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
“even if he did land one or two good recruits in Chapel Hill.”
He actually put together a top-15 class in about two months time.
“Mack Brown always has better classes than Blake, and he did at UNC too.”
1) that is irrelevant to who is the better recruiter and,
2) Not so much.
Being a great recruiter has nothing to do with the ranking of a recruiting class.
Top drawer, Mac!
As a Tar Heel, I sure like what Davis is doing with the team so far. Of course, that’s the Kiss Of Death for UNC football coaches. I expect he’ll be in Fayeeteville next year.
Pete Carroll seems to continue to bring in awesome talent, but here’s my question with him: is California as much of a hot-bed of talent as the Southeast, and he’s just getting most of it, or is he spending a huge amount of time in other parts of the country?
Answering a question from the last thread…it’s option A there. California produces a ridiculous amount of high school football talent. At this point Carroll gets first pick of everybody, but the state fills out the rosters of UCLA, Cal, Stanford, and most of the Washington and Oregon teams too.
Carroll does go outside the state for special players or special needs. Mike Williams and Keith Rivers were pulled out of Florida. JD Booty and Joe McKnight from Louisiana. Dwayne Jarrett, Brian Cushing, Vidal Hazelton from the Jersey/Northern Virginia area. All American TE Fred Davis is from Toledo. Arizona produced two five stars guys last season and Carroll went down and took them both.
The biggest obsticle to recruiting guys to USC is that it’s located in downtown LA and surrounded by some fairly sketchy neighborhoods.
Saying USC is near some fairly sketchy neighborhoods is very graceful. I visited the campus once and made a wrong turn when I left and was very thankful to make it out with no damage to my rental car. This was in 1992, just after the riots. It was not pleasant.
“He actually put together a top-15 class in about two months time.”
No, he didn’t. Butch Davis did. John Blake helped.
“1) that is irrelevant to who is the better recruiter and,
2) Not so much.
Being a great recruiter has nothing to do with the ranking of a recruiting class.”
How is who has consistently recruited more successfully irrelevant? When Blake was at Oklahoma and Brown at UNC and UT, Brown outrecruited him and Brown’s teams outperformed his, so by whatever measure you want to use, Brown was better. When Blake was at Nebraska and Brown at UT, Brown was better.
In what other ways would you like to evaluate their classes? On field success? How are all those great recruits Blake got at Nebraska doing, anyway?
The bright sun logo for the Rays’ uniforms looks kind of stupid.
http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=tb
Mac, congratulation for the well deserved recognition. I sure do enjoy your writing, and let’s make sure we keep the “delenda est” tradition!
I guess the only thing I REALLY like about it is the hat. That looks nice.
For some reason, “The Tampa Bay Rays” reminds me of Chico’s Bail Bonds and East Bay Ray at the same time. Nice!
Actually, was Mack at Texas when Blake was at Oklahoma?
Blake was there from 1996-1998
Brown entered UT in 1997.
So, saying Brown “out recruited” Blake for one season is, like I said, assinine. Even IF you think this, which is easier to recruit to: Austin or Norman? (I guess you don’t like people using your own pretty horrid arguments)
And if you think Norman, OK is harder to recruit kids to for FOOTBALL than Chapel Hill, especially recently, you are smoking more than just crack.
Norman may suck as a place to live, but it is one of the few places football players are still considered Gods. in Chapel Hill, they don’t even KNOW who their football players are (awww, I love my Tarheels). Better still is the fact that Blake had 2 months to work, after Bunting and being a new guy.
Blake, and this is not just me saying this, this is ALOT of people, is the best recruiter consistently in the NCAA.
Now, if only baseball would start.
I kinda like the new Rays stuff, but I don’t really see the point. Like, I’m going to driving through downtown St. Pete and I’m going to be seeing Rays of sunshine instead of Devil Rays, and it’s just gonna seem kinda fruity. But, it does have a “nicer” feel to it.
I remember when I found this place after doing a google search that was eric gregg satan because I wanted to get pissed off about the 97 NLCS for the umpteenth time. I ended up getting some sort of march madness bracket of most hated sports personalities (for those who don’t remember it), the road from bristol for most hated espn vermin and various posters among them guys named eric and gregg had called skip bayless satan. I hate skip bayless but I knew I liked this site for putting the contest on and started reading then (circa early summer 2005).
Thanks Mac and congratulations
I think it’s really funny that they are using a sun in their new logo and they play indoors. Someone in marketing has a wicked sense of humor.
And Mac, didn’t you mention the “Eric Gregg Satan” search showing up in a Google referral log in one of your posts long ago (2005, I guess)? If so, what a very cool full circle.
I think I found this blog after I started my own for a college class. I was looking for other Braves blogs, and well, it was a given that I’d end up here. 🙂
For some reason, the new Tampa Bay Rays’ logo looks like a bottle of detergent to me.
url,
Yes, the Bad News Bears meet the Dead Kennedys.
Great interview, Mac. I am lurking several times a day. It’s by far the best blog I know.
Yes, the Bad News Bears meet the Dead Kennedys.
I would TOTALLY watch that movie.
Fresh fruit for rotting outfield prospects?
Congrats, Mac. I’ve read here for a long time, though i don’t comment as much as I used to. But I’ve always appreciated your work here.
For some reason, I always assumed you were an engineer of some sort…
I second the notion of whomever it was that suggested we give up anything the padres would want for Peavy. Maybe we could swing a deal to give the entire Danville team for Peavy and the entire Rome team for Bedard. heh heh.
I too sure hope Wren is just blowing smoke about no more changes to the rotation. We just can’t count on anything from Hampton and it seems like the plan should be made accordingly. Anything at all that he contributes should be considered a bonus.
Wren has already brought in a young prospect with the potential to help the staff. Glavine would obviously be a short-term measure. I’m not sure what else we can expect Wren to do this year. It’s not like teams are looking to trade starting pitching–even assuming Bedard and Peavy are available, I’m not sure the Braves have enough to get them. I assume the Padres would want MLB-ready players. If he can change over 2/5 of the staff in the offseason, that strikes me as pretty good. I don’t see anyone in free agency that really seems worth breaking the bank over.
The Chass article was idiotic. Tampa hasn’t really been given major league baseball and it has an awful stadium. The Marlins play in a football stadium and, from a friend in the area, there is still a lot of bitterness over Huizenga (who seems to be doing the same thing to the Dolphins). Obviously, Miami and Tampa aren’t likely to be New York and Boston in terms of baseball passion but saying lop them off the map is stupid.
Even if we could convince SD to give up Peavy (and that’s a big IF), what is his contract situation? I wouldn’t want him to walk out after a year or so with us getting nothing in return.
With Heyward, Jurrjens, Schaeffer, Hernandez, Lillibridge, and the rest of the minor league players, I think the Braves have a chance to be the Rockies/D’backs of 2010. Let’s not waste that chance lightly.
I would be totally in favor of trading Danville and Rome for Peavy and Bedard.
Huh? We got some talent in both places. Let’s all put down the rubber cement and step away from our monitors.
oh, mlbtraderumors (ok, I know, but still) says that Sheets is available.
now…what on earth might the brewers need (i say him @ 11 mil a year for the next two years is more reasonable than one year of most anyone else)? b. jones and prado plus a high-ceiling A pitcher?
The Rays should go ahead and move to Orlando and play at Disney’s delightful facility. Piggybacking the Mouse has paid off for more than one struggling entity.
As to Peavy: If Wren wants to announce to the baseball world that there’s some new suspenders in town, he should find a way to get Peavy. Best stuff I’ve ever seen.
Remember the game two years ago where he lost on the fluke homer by Langerhans? I’ve never seen such movement.
I know it would take a lot, but it would be worth it.
Sheets would cost way more than that. And he’s mighty injury prone. He and AJ Burnett are about the same value, IMO, only I suspect Burnett would be slightly cheaper.
“The Rays should go ahead and move to Orlando and play at Disney’s delightful facility. Piggybacking the Mouse has paid off for more than one struggling entity.”
I went to a minor league game there a few years ago when they still had a team. There couldn’t have been more than 250 people in the stadium. With Disney etc. literally next door, I don’t think a team would ever draw well.
The problem with Florida baseball is terrible management for both teams. Well, ownership. Florida has actually had very good GMs, I think.
79 — trading an entire class of baseball for 1 player was just for giggles. Notice the “heh heh” at the end of the suggestion. my fault though — I should know by now that sarcasm just doesn’t work too well in this medium.
77 — I know Wren has said that they think Jar-Jar is near ready / ready. But is everyone really convinced of this? If he is, then that’s great. I think he was a good pickup whether he’s ready this season or next. They’re saying the same with Jo-Jo too. Is he really ready? I don’t think we’d complain if Jar-Jar and Jo-Jo had the chance to get a little more work in before we have to rely on them.
If these big arms really are available (my personal opinion is that it’s just all talk because there aren’t many FA’s available) then we should at least make some offers.
For what it’s worth (not much) I think Peavy has 2 years left. And the Padres would certainly be needing MLB ready players to give up their staff ace.
Sheets is intriguing. They love him up here (I’m in Madison, WI). But he’s just not dependable due to health.
James, Jurjens, and Gorkys Hernandez for Peavy maybe?
Peavy is making $6 million next season and there’s an $8 million club option for 2009.
I don’t know who the Braves could possibly trade for Peavy without it crippling them a bit.
Great interview, Mac! This is honestly one of the best blogs on the web, and checking it is a highlight of my day. I wish all sports journalists were as talented as you.
Not sure I see how trading for Peavy would cripple the Braves. Adding him would be an enormous improvement. If Wren could swing that, then he could forgo signing Glavine so money wouldn’t be an issue.
I don’t see why the Pads would trade Peavey, at least not for prospects. Why the hell would they trade him for James, Jurrjens and Hernandez? He is inexpensive for the next two years and I’m sure they Padres think they should be contenders. If they trade Peavey for prospects, they can forget about contending and I don’t see why they would build for the future when the play in a very winnable division in a very winnable league. If I’m the Padres, I’m doing the opposite–doing everything I can to win in the next two years.
Peavy = never going to happen…
its fund to speculate on getting these guys, but we have no chance at Peavy or Arod. Why we would even talk about Sheets is beyond me, the guy hasnt pitched more than 130 innings in the last three years. He’s dominant when healthy, but he’s turning into another Carl Pavano
The question is should we try to keep a few prospects so we can have a decent team a few years from now, or should we trade away guys who may be future stars.
Let’s assume that the Glavine’s salary would be about the same as another pitcher who would be better (Peavy, Sheets, …). I just don’t think that given the injury risks, gutting our farm system even more is worth the risk. Glavine is a one to two year stopgap until our minor leaguers develop or we trade for another top pitching prospect.
“I don’t see why the Pads would trade Peavy”
they arent going to trade him, the Pads have to rely on their pitching because they have one of the worst offensive teams in the league. After losing Cameron, they have nothing. If Peavy goes it’ll be for some big bats and other teams paying most of the salaries. We could trade them Tex for Peavy and eat about half of Tex’s contract. Then they would probably require him to sign an extension before accepting the offer
I dont see why some people complain about not getting the money’s worth out of Glavine, who has never pitched less than 185IP in any season and has been in the top 5 NL for QS the last two years, but they want to take a chance on Sheets who cant walk on the field without getting hurt. I’ll take the one year of Glavine at 7-8 mil instead of Sheets and trading away more of our farm system.
I doubt Peavy and Bedard et al are being shopped. My guess is that teams realize the demand for pitching and are simply willing to listen to offers, hoping that someone will overpay and/or offer a huge package like the Braves did for Teixeira. I think the Tex trade was a good one, but I’m wary of putting together another deal like that one. We need to keep the farm system stocked.
another reason to pass on Sheets
Sheets has only one year left on his contract at $11 million
Moore on DeJesus
KC’s DeJesus popular on trade market?
Royal David DeJesus is drawing considerable interest from several clubs that need a center fielder. Part of his attraction is cost certainty: DeJesus, 27, is signed for $13.3 million over the next four years — a relative bargain in today’s market. Many teams don’t want to enter the bidding for Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones or Aaron Rowand. That reluctance is spiking the value of Boston’s Coco Crisp, who appears expendable because of Jacoby Ellsbury’s emergence. So teams are calling about DeJesus, believing the Royals have an alternative in Joey Gathright, who batted .307 with a .371 on-base percentage in 74 games. “A lot of people are interested in David,” Royals general manager Dayton Moore confirmed, “but I just don’t see it. We’ve got to hold on to that guy.” — KC Star
we should get Javy Lopez back to backup McCann
The way I look at is that next year (2008) is going to be the Braves’ best chance at winning a championship for quite a while considering free agents and retirements after that. Adding Peavy to go with Hudson and Smoltz would make the Braves the odds on favorite to win the NL. If we could trade some minor leaguers who may never pan out and maybe a non-crucial major leaguer or two to get him, then why not go for it? It’s the same logic for getting Teixeira this summer. By renting Tex for a year and a half, the Braves have already committed to trying to win a championship in ’07 and ’08. So if Peavy really was available for a large package of minor leaguers, it would only make sense to pursue it.
Lopez is a poor defender and a shell of the hitter he once was. It wouldn’t shock me at all if he is in the Mitchell report too. I’d rather let Sammons or Pena backup McCann.
Ron, Peavy wont be available for a “bunch of minor leaguers who may or may not pan out.” Peavy is the best pitcher in MLB and the Pads are going to want the king’s ransom for that guy. Would you be willing to offer KJ, James, Heyward, Schafer and/or Hernandez? I wonder if thats enough
KJ, James, Heyward, and one of Schaefer/Hernandez for Peavy… yes I would do that.
what about both
#101–Peavy is the best pitcher in MLB
Ummmm…paging mr santana…mr santana…has anyone seen mr santana?
#102–KJ, James, Heyward, and one of Schaefer/Hernandez for Peavy… yes I would do that.
Ummmm…and that is why they don’t pay you the BIG BUCKS to be the Braves GM.
Heyward will be our next 1B when Tex walks…giving us the $ to go after Santana.
Peavy is not the best pitcher in MLB. That honor is reserved for another guy who is said to be available – Santana.
Is Heyward that far along in his development?
Well, Heyward won’t be ready in 2009, but yeah, he’s our long-term solution there (or in the OF, if we somehow extend Teix), and he’s probably the only player in our system whom I wouldn’t trade if I were GM.
Chris, Heyward is at least three years away, and if Tex isn’t extended, then Atlanta would need a 1b in ’09. Not that I advocate trading Heyward, but I’m just saying that it’s more likely that someone esle will be our next firstbaseman. I would give up KJ/James/Hernandez for Peavey, but not Heyward.
#105 – sorry I meant NL
does anyone think that the Pads would take KJ, James, and Hernandez for Peavy? I think they would laugh in our face
Two valuable major leaguers under control for a while, and an exciting prospect yeah why not.
I don’t think they’d laugh, because I think that’s a reasonable offer, but I suspect that a bidding war with other teams would lead to more having to be included.
In any trade for Peavy, Santan, or Bedard, their current team is going to want at least one high-ceiling starting pitching prospect in return.
Mac–Thanks for the link–I really enjoyed the interview–even if it made me want to go check JS’s book….More important, next year we will have to commemorate 10 years of Braves Journal. Well Done!
@95,
I don’t Peavey is being shopped but I wouldn’t be surprised if Bedard is. The O’s are in such a mess that they need a lot more than one pitcher. I heard on a radio talk show up here (DC area) from a guy that has been covering the O’s forever that basically everyone, including Bedard, is available for the right price. Of course, this assumes that Andy McPhail is actually running the show because Peter Angelos wouldn’t have pulled the trigger to get Babe Ruth. I think Bedard is available but it would take a lot to get him.
95 — I really don’t think Peavy and Bedard are available. It’s a pipe dream to speculate about welcoming them aboard. Fun to dream.
I still think that the only reason these names are coming up in talks is due to the lack of free agents. I really don’t think a deal for Peavy or Bedard will happen.
#104, “Heyward will be our next 1B when Tex walks”
That’s showing a lot of confidence in a player who has no major league at bats. Scot Thorman was supposed to be our first baseman of the future and look how well that turned out. I’d worry about who plays first base after next season if it meant I could get Peavy and win a championship this season.
“…giving us the $ to go after Santana.”
Except Santana is likely to be traded this offseason and whoever trades for him will surely immediately sign him to an extension. He isn’t going to be available for the Braves next year. The Braves couldn’t outbid the 2 New York teams, the 2 LA teams, the Red Sox, and any other team that decided to throw a lot of money at him even if he were available.
McPhail has said that no Oriole is off limits.
But I can’t help but think that it sounds like my approach with my fantasy teams — if you bowl me over with an offer, then I’ll take it. Otherwise, I’m keeping my best players, thanks.
The Orioles have declared Tejada available for what it seems like the last 5 years. Every year teams make offers, but then the become reluctant to move him. If they wont move a player who has lost his range and possibly his power for a bunch of prospects/postion players to improve their team, I highly doubt they’ll move Bedard.
New poll.
@84 – I’m actually in Madison too. Well, I’ll be back in January, I’m currently in Baltimore doing research. That’s sweet.
Anyway, the chances of the Braves attaining any primetime major league pitcher – Bedard, Santana, Peavy, Sheets, Burnett – are very very slim. Actually, I think they’re nonexistent, and probably not even on Wren’s radar. I think he’s telling the truth when he says that Glavine will be it. So, while I too cringe at the thought of our incredibly old staff, I can only hope that (1) James becomes more durable and figures out a way to go an inning more in his starts, and (2) either Reyes or Jurrjens is ready to contribute now. As for Hampton… well, color me less than optimistic.
Mac, you forgot Arod on the poll
Q & A – with Teixiera
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071109&content_id=2296760&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
more on DeJesus
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/353313.html
Teixera seems like a bright guy, but what kind of interview was that? She asked more about his favorite football team than about the Braves. Wouldn’t you ask something about the free agency situation–not that he would answer.
Marc,
I thought the same thing, but I would think that Teixeira was instructed not to talk about it by someone. Besides, if he was asked about it, Teixeira probbaly wouldn’t give a straight answer.
Guys, it’s a Chop Talk interview. Those are generally all about players’ off-field lives, not contract situations.
And also, Moore has to say he’ll hang on to DeJesus — it drives up his price.
Mac,
SEC picks this week?
Anyone else think we might be giving up too soon on The Mighty Thor?
I think he’s a daily Xanax away from being at least as valuable as was LaRoche.
Would love to keep Teix, but the anti-Christ will probably demand the moon and stars …
SEC picks this week?
A nation awaits. Can’t skip this week, the SEC actually has a reasonable slate of games. Only one cupcake.
Unlike your average weekly in-conference Pac-10 schedule, in which at least half of the teams play a cupcake.
I think he’s a daily Xanax away from being at least as valuable as was LaRoche.
Just for fun:
Age 23:
Thorman
AA .305/.360/.506/.866 in 384 PAs
AAA .276/.313/.438/.751 in 219 PAs
LaRoche
AA .283/.381/.511/.892 in 253 PAs
AAA .295/.360/.466/.826 in 291 PAs
Age 24:
Thorman
AAA .298/.360/.508/.868 in 340 PAs
MLB .234/.263/.438/.701 in 133 PAs
LaRoche
MLB .278/.333/.488/.821 in 351 PAs
LaRoche’s age 25 season was so-so at the major league level, Thorman’s was of course a career-threatening disaster. LaRoche broke out a age 26, it’s questionable whether anyone would give Thorman enough PAs at this point to break out.
Thorman has been a little behind LaRoche the whole way but they are not that dissimilar. Look at LaRoche line for his last year at AAA vs Thorman’s line for his last year at AAA.
So yeah, I agree he could be valuable at some point, although I doubt it will be in a Braves uniform.
Unlike your average weekly in-conference Pac-10 schedule, in which at least half of the teams play a cupcake.
Clever. Never heard that one before. Sticking with the talking points.
We hear from you every week how bad the SEC’s non-conference schedule is, Robert. Didn’t seem like originality was something you find desirable in a post related to college football. My mistake.
That’s fine. At least you didn’t dig up the “It has to be this way. The SEC is soooooo tough” line. It’s a classic though.
Now, boys, let’s behave. The SEC and Pac-10 are both fine conferences. Can’t we all just learn to get along? (:
Somebody in the Braves organization thought Thorman could play. I suspect he can but, like Robert, I doubt it will be for the Braves.
Brrrrr. Getting cold again tonight. Better throw another log on the fire…
8 of 8 dentists pick the SEC as the best conference.
Just a little good natured ribbing, of course. The level of suck in that article is actually pretty high.
Speaking of suck, Thorman.
Um, don’t know what happened with the tags there. I do like that when I mouse over Thorman it shows “done” in my status bar.
Robert,
I’m curious. If you’re so unimpressed with the SEC, why do you think their players do so well in the NFL?
Why do you think NFL scouts (guys who evaluate football for a living) say things like, “There’s the SEC and then there’s everything else.”?
Why do you think SEC players keep getting drafted in droves and populating rosters all over the league?
If that doesn’t indicate the highest level of talent, I’m not sure what does. You can call all of the above “talking points”; I’ll call them facts.