The Hardball Times Annual 2007, complete with my deathless opus “GM In A Box: John Schuerholz,” is now shipping. Amazon is showing 4-6 weeks but it won’t take that long, or you can order directly from the publisher using the link on THT’s site. On the other hand, if you order from Amazon using the link below I get a cut, and isn’t supporting my $50 a week book habit more important?
Open thread.
Will I not be able to find this book on shelves?
Let’s laugh at the Mets!
Mets get –
P Ambiorix Burgos
Royals get –
P Brain Bannister
AHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Depends. Your local B&N will probably eventually get it in, but might only order one copy.
Ah… I ask because I have money left on a Borders gift card that I’d like to use up.
Sam, that’s not a bad trade for the Mets, I like it from their perspective. Less so for the Royals, but it’s not terrible for them either.
Bannister showed signs of being very good, the Mets need a rotation, not another below average arm in Burgos. But hey, it sucks for them, and its good for us!
If Borders doesn’t have it they will order it for you. The ISBN is 0879463120.
Don’t get too excited about the Mets deal. Burgos has very good stuff, he was just never able to put things together. A change of scenery and a better pitching coach could turn him into someone to be feared coming out of the bullpen.
I guess I don’t trust “bad” relievers to turn “good” anymore. :p
Hey Mac…
I got an Amazon Associates thing a while back for some of my other sites. I can put a link for you of the book on my blog….
But then you’d get the cut, Davey! Sure, go ahead.
I know I’d get the cut… that’s why I signed on last year 🙂
ok then, I’ll put it up.
Dodgers sign Jason Schmidt….
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6242312
Per DOB at AJC:
ANYWAY…folks, the LaRoche/Gonzalez thing is very much alive, believe me. There’s a holdup, but it’s nothing to do with it needed to be expanded to include Davies or Castillo or anything else. That’s all I can say right now. The deal itself, LaRoche for Gonzalez, satisfies both teams, in principle
what about Laroche for Figgins/Donnely.
Where do the Angels plan on putting Brandon Wood in a year?
If I were the Mets I wouldn’t be trading away young starters, but I don’t think losing Bannister is giving Met fans angina.
Although he had some promising starts last season, Bannister did get hurt and he walks the ballpark. He was always in trouble.
From talk around here (in my office & on the radio), the Met spin is that Omar is in the business of “collecting power arms.” As bad as Burgos was last year (and we’re talking 16-HR-in-73-IP bad), he’ll only be 23 when the season starts & “just wait ’til Rick Peterson gets ahold of him, i.e.—he’s a reclamation project with a relatively high upside.”
My take: In return for a starter with a cloudy future, the Mets got a guy, who on his very best day will be a Jr. Armando Benitez.
I truly don’t understand this trade AFTER signing Wickman to a huge [read: overpaid] deal.
LaRoche straightup for Gonzalez qualifies as a disaster in my books
I don’t think it is a bad move, if we can find someone to play first and hit 25 dingers.
6.5mil for a closer no longer qualifies as overpaid…
If Wickman had waited a few months he would have got 10mil from someone. Also, Wickman may only be around 1 more year and then who is the closer. Don’t even tell me Divine will be the guy. He may well end up being great, but at this point you can’t put all your eggs in that basket.
Wickman is not overpaid. Baez is overpaid. Wickman’s deal was great comparing it to some of the free agent deals relievers are signing this offseason. I’m a fan of the LaRoche for Gonzalez trade. I think Thorman will be a reliable replacement and could enventually match LaRoche’s offensive production. LaRoche never seemed to walk a lot and his high OPS this season was due to a monster second half that he may never be able to duplicate again. Classic sell high move. Plus, Gonzalez can take over as a closer when Wickmania ends.
I don’t think it is a bad move, if we can find someone to play first and hit 25 dingers.
it took us 7 yrs last time around
I’m with Godot.
What could the snag be? They want us to send money, in addition to 27-year-old first baseman with a .900+ OPS? This is disgusting.
I’m sure this has been mentioned elsewhere, but again from DOB’s AJC blog:
“Gonzalez missed the last month of the season after having a contrast MRI on his elbow, where dye is injected to determine if there’s any damage. The test requires a few weeks of recovery, and Gonzalez ended up sitting out the last month, but reportedly the test showed no problems with the elbow and he has a clean bill of health.”
I’m not going to go crazy about this deal yet, although I must admit that I love the late-inning idea of Gonzo/Wickmania, but I wonder if JS is trying to pry a little more out of the Bucs.
It also begs many more questions that’ll be batted around: Is Thorman really ready? Chipper to first? If so, who plays 3B? Is the bullpen done?
But patience is a virtue, so I’ll wait…
Salty to first!!
That’s what I was thinking.
Barry Bonds to first!
Just Kidding…
Ububba…
I have been saying for awhile that I want Gonzo, i’m sure JS is seeing how high LaRoche’s value is right now and he is trying to get another pitching prospect, which I think we should get at least one more. But with the Gonzo/Wickman combo in the 8th and 9th inning…its a lock if we have the lead. I think Thorman is capable of hitting at least 25 HRs so i’m really not worried about that, plus Salty may be switching to first. If Thorman is horrible than I guess we could see where Chipper stands on switching to 1st base and Aybar could play 3rd..if he’s not playing second.
Everyone on here says we want pitching…we need to improve our bullpen…well there’s not many closers/setup guys that are a better option than Gonzo, he’s going to be an All-Star…35+ saves…he’s going to be great.
Do you guys recal a time when a laRoche for a bag of baseballs would have been an upgrade?
Ward/Diaz/Thorman…
If all this comes to pass lets hope that Thorman is up to it…
Gonzalez for LaRoche: The ‘lets use a combination of young and old cheap arms in the bullpen’ kinda didn’t work out last season. I hate to put our eggs into the Scott Thorman basket too but we need a relialble lefty out of the bullpen. At least Schuerholz is doing some real research here and is not just relying on a snazzy save total like he did with Dan Kolb. It really sucks that a young lefty reliever costs an everyday first baseman but thanks to good old Keynsian economics…. there it is.
Okay. My thoughts, expanded a bit:
If this goes down, the way I see it, we should try to trade Giles/Horam/something else for a starter.
Trading LaRoche mean Andruw’s with us at least until the all-star break. Getting a solid reliever, I think, means our focus has to shift to the rotation.
Whoever plays first for us this year, I’d think the plan has to be moving Salty to first in the near future, so I doubt he’s going to be traded now.
We have a couple potential line-ups right now, as I see it:
This one, I’d prefer:
Aybar (3B)
Renteria (SS)
Chipper (1B)
Andruw (CF)
McCann (C)
Johnson (2B)
Francoeur (RF)
Langerhans/Diaz (LF)
This one’s more likely:
Johnson (2B)
Renteria (SS)
Chipper (3B)
Andruw (CF)
McCann (C)
Francoeur (RF)
Thorman (1B)
Langerhans/Diaz (LF)
If we go with that first line-up, you can add Thorman to the Giles/Ramirez group, and you might really be able to land a middle-of-the rotation guy.
If we go with the second, I don’t know who you’d be able to add to the trade block. I think we’re going to be keeping Aybar, even if he is only used as a super-sub. Guys like Prado and Escobar wouldn’t be worth a whole lot on the block, I don’t think.
Any thoughts?
Assuming this trade happens, Thorman is simply a question mark. There really wasn’t much to go on for him in 2006, so it’s just a wait and see in March. Not much else we can do until then.
It doesn’t thrill me to have a potential right side of Thorman and Aybar/Prado, but rebuilding this ‘pen has got to be the first priority.
Didnt Gonzo have arm problems last year, maybe the snag is medical reasons
I wasn’t a fan of this LaRoche/Gonzalez thing until I looked up Gonzo’s stats. Those are fantastic! a 1.500 OPS? Damn!
And Gonzo strikes out more than a man an inning. Thats reassuring considering Wickman’s strikeout to weight ratio is negative infinity.
I’ll miss LaRoche though. Too bad he’ll rot in relative obscurity in Pittsburgh.
I think we are going to try and get a regular left fielder too. I heard on the AJC we might be looking at Baldeli, but we wont’ do it for Chuck James.
I agree in that we might need to go after another starter, but we might gamble on Hampton
Smitty you read my mind…I have been thinking that a lot lately. I’m sorry but I’m not sold on LaRoche. He had an out of body experience in the second half this season. This is classic selling high trading. We need pitching, period. In order to get pitching we will have to sacrifice some offense. LaRoche is a highly coveted 1B right now and we should try to get all we can for him.
everyone wants Baldeli so I doubt we get him
I guess I think we’re either going to have to trade Salty or Thorman to get the type of starter we want. Thus, assuming Chipper isn’t moved to first — and I have no reason, other than false hope, to think he would be — you’ll have to put all your eggs in either the Salty or Thorman basket.
That’s why, if Chipper were flexible between third and first, it would be GREAT, because you’d have Aybar + whoever of Salty and Thorman you don’t trade, and could hope one of two pans out.
I’d much rather do this than work on my Business Crimes final exam.
I’d prefer Crawford over Baldeli(I think everyone know’s that by now) but Baldeli is probably easier to get than Carl…. *sigh*
Schmidt $3yr/47 mil Dodgers
From the Jim Callis chat on ESPN:
Paul, Mass: Is Saltamacchia expendable? I’m thinking to the Yankees for Pavano
Jim Callis: (2:34 PM ET ) I don’t think he’s that expendable despite his off year, and that trade offer is a joke. Pavano is overpriced and can’t even get to the mound? Why trade one of the best catching prospects in the minors for that?
I hate Yankees fans…
Everyone,
Don’t forget about Eric Campbell….I think he is going to be very good…still a year or two away though.
(look at the Rome numbers…)
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Eric%20Campbell&pos=3B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=448274
Wow, I figured ESPN would tell us how good it is!
Thorman has the potential, but lets not forget that it took LaRoche several seasons to develop. Thorman will also need time–I would rather not see Ward or Diaz (whose suspect defense makes him a good AL player) at first.
Still, the Braves would have quite a bullpen–especially if Boyer can return and Devine develop….
Callis is a Baseball America guy, so he’s better than ESPN.
It’s not really that easy to just move a guy to first base. You can’t really just hand Chipper the mitt and tell him to start taking grounders. Aside from that, I can’t imagine it’s something he’d be all that receptive to.
At least Thorman can play some first base, and I’d rather have his bat in there than Aybar’s. Someone mentioned it a couple threads back, but I’m afraid Aybar was little more than a throw-in for a Baez-led attempt to win the wild card. If you can’t find room for Betemit, not sure Aybar is a guy you can rely on everyday either.
Chipper Jones to first base, and get Morgan Ensberg to play third base? What would it take to pry him from the Astros? Will Startup and Yunel Escobar? Get that done.
“You can’t really just hand Chipper the mitt and tell him to start taking grounders.”
That’s exactly what Cox did to Brian Jordan last year.
Well, it depends whether you want more power or more OBP with respect to Thorman vs. Aybar, I suppose. I’d lean Aybar.
Also, we couldn’t find room for Betemit, sure. But that’s when LaRoche was on the roster, and it didn’t make as much sense to take him out of the line-up as it does to get Thorman out, in my opinion.
What about someone like Joe Blanton? If Beane’s still into Giles, it seems like that might be worth exploring? Does anyone think he’s not a middle-of-the-rotation type?
I say we package Salty, HoRam, Devine, and Diaz to the Cubs for Lee. Hey, they are the Cubs.
Jay,
It’s ok to forget about Eric Campbell for the time being. He’s someone you want to think about in the 2008 off-season.
None of those players are expensive enough for the Cubs to be interested.
There is also Van Pope who had a very solid year at the beach. He is ahead of Campbell and has a great glove–probably a year or more away.
Stu,
Yes, I would love to get Blanton….
Callis is also a UGA grad. I worked with him on the school newspaper. He’s a Red Sox fan. Although I don’t doubt his professionalism for an instant, I’d say that he’s the wrong guy to be tossing mindless Yankee trade questions.
Stu,
Yes, I agree that losing LaRoche would tighten our grip on our existing offensive firepower.
And, so is this class “Enron 101”?
Hudson and Frenchy for Lee and Prior!
Heh, Enron’s not really discussed. Enron was more about securities fraud — which is an entirely different course (I’ve taken it) here at UGA Law. Business Crimes is more about racketeering, male fraud, wire fraud, obstruction of justice, etc.
It’s all very interesting. Well, I’m sure it would be if I knew anything about it. It’s a take-home exam, so I’ve paid no attention all semester to any of the subject matter until this morning…
Couple more deals about to happen….
Piazza is close to signing with the A’s…2-year deal…he’d be the DH
And the A’s also added Alan Embree…also a 2-year deal
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2688662
oops, my bad…it said nothing about Piazza’s deal being for 2 years.
Indians and Joe Borowski agree to a 1-year deal and David Dellucci…
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2688446
This very interesting…..
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2684334
“That’s exactly what Cox did to Brian Jordan last year.”
You’re not serious.
Mac,
Should you start a new forum in which Jay can just put up a bunch of news links? 🙂
Note that none of those ESPN guys were right about where Schmidt would sign. That should tell you — if you didn’t know already — all you need to know about the insight they’ve given.
Hahaha…
yeah I saw that too….all had him going to the M’s.
Here’s something too…
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/index
The thing with LaRoche is we don’t *need* 25 dingers from 1B. We had tons of offense last year. We didn’t have a bullpen. This strengthens our weakness significantly from last year. Now you’re looking at a bullpen that will use an arrangement similar to this:
Closer: Wickman
Setup: Gonzalez
7th inning: McBride/Yates
6th inning and before: Paronto/Boyer
Designated Vulture: the Vulture and unnamed 2nd lefty (if necessary)
Perhaps it won’t the greatest bullpen ever, but on paper it seems a good bit more solid than what we had last year (no Reitsma or K*lb). At the same time, it will allow youngsters like Devine to get more needed time in the minors.
From MLB4U,
“Adam LaRoche, 1B–Atlanta Braves: Braves offered him to the Pirates as they sought Mike Gonzalez or Chris Duffy in exchange. The Pirates were only willing to offer John Grabow and Nate McLouth. Talks seem to be ongoing, though, with teams talking about adding Kyle Davies and Jose Castillo. The Mariners, Angels and Orioles are also among a handful of teams with interest in LaRoche. With the Orioles, a Brian Roberts and Hayden Penn for LaRoche and Marcus Giles deal had been discussed, but the Braves were having seconds thoughts about the deal and Peter Angelos stepped in nixed the deal. Baltimore GM Mike Flanagan had wasted three weeks putting together the deal. Talks with the Angels are not progressing with the Angels willing to offer only Chone Figgins/Casey Kotchman and not Scot Shields. A source told MLB.com, the M’s have discussed a 3-wat deal to net them Tim Hudson and Adam LaRoche from the Braves and send Richie Sexson to San Francisco. The Braves would get Rafael Soriano from Seattle and Armando Benitez from the Giants.”
If Armando Benitez becomes a Brave, it is going to be a long season.
I would love to have Jose Castillo. He’s a baller.
There’s no way we’d give up Hudson and LaRoche for Soriano and Benitez. That makes even less snese than Hudson and Giles for Roberts and Penn, which made no sense.
In case anyone whats a list of all the signings so far…here ya go…
http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/free_agent_mlb06.php
I like Castillo, but I don’t understand why we’d be asking for him. We already have SO many second basemen.
@32
pretty weak package for a mid rotation starter. remember a 41 year old one of those just signed with the Mets for 10.5 mil and easy options for another year.
Umm…
To reiterate what I said in that post, last season, these big complicated deals don’t work because someone always winds up taking it in the shorts, and usually they are wishful thinking on the part of one of the teams. In this case, the Mariners think that they can essentially trade Richie Sexson and his gigantic contract for LaRoche — an equivalent player who makes far less money, is controlled for one more year, and is lefthanded besides — and trade a sorearmed reliever, Soriano, for a starter, Hudson. The Giants get Sexson for Benitez, an incredible exchange, and the Braves take it in the shorts. It makes no sense, and is the sort of trade that the computer would reject if you tried it on your Playstation.
ESPN reports Jason Schmidt to the Dodgers for 3 years @ $47 million. Not a bad top four: Schmidt, Lowe, Penny, Wolf.
Giles + HoRam + Thorman/Salty is weak? Seems about right to me, though, of course, a bunch of teams have already filled their second base needs.
Good point Mac, but what if someone turns off the “Fair Trade” mode?
Pretty weak for (I assume you mean) quality starting pitching.
Especially in this market where a level headed team like us is actually considering trading an 800+ OPS 1b for 54 innings of relief pitching and calling ourselves lucky.
Well, I disagree with you. Take the Rockies, for example. You don’t think they’d at least listen to Giles/HoRam/Salty for Jason Jennings? I think they would.
Johnny,
I hate to say it but if we learned anything from last year…800+ OPS doesn’t mean shit if we can’t shut other teams down in the late innings, so if we can get Gonzo…we are lucky.
Stu,
I agree that Colorado could consider something like that. But don’t you think that would be overpaying for Jennings? That strikes me as high.
As an unrelated aside, I always like pitchers who can hit & Jennings can hit, too.
I dunno, ububba. It might be. Still, we need to unload Giles and HoRam (salary and the fact that HoRam’s spot in the rotation would be gone), and it’s still not clear that Salty has a position on this team. I mean, I’m sure he’d be a fine first baseman, but his value really stems from the notion of getting his offensive production from the catcher’s position; he ain’t our catcher of the future.
I think it is a little steep in a normal market, but like Johnny says, this is a crazy market and we have to do more than we normally would to get pitching.
It’s a tough call. I think I’d rather do something like that than just trade Giles for a Solomon Torres-type and go into the season with the rotation as-is.
Some Buzz from various sources:
While John Schuerholz was somewhat pessimistic Tuesday about making a trade, the word around the lobby of the Winter Meetings hotel Wednesday was much more positive.
Sources say the deal with Pittsburgh involving Braves first baseman Adam LaRoche and Pirates’ closer Mike Gonzalez could be completed tonight. The two teams are talking about additional players that could be included in the deal.
The Braves are content with the option of using Scott Thorman to replace LaRoche at first base if a trade occurs.
Also, the Braves and Devil Rays “have made progress” on talks involving Tampa Bay outfielder Rocco Baldelli. The Devil Rays want Braves’ catching prospect Jarrod Saltalamacchia and some pitching. The Braves do not appear willing to part with lefty Chuck James, but Kyle Davies may be a possibility.
Baldelli played in center for Tampa Bay but would play left in Atlanta. If Andruw Jones leaves as a free agent next winter or is traded beforehand, Baldelli would be his replacement in center. Baldelli hit .302 for the Devil Rays last year with 16 home runs and 57 runs batted in. He’s an above average defensive player who is still young (only 25) and inexpensi
Wow,
Great stuff Lance….I’d prefer to keep James..
Ooo, Rocco Baldelli. I’d not heard that rumor before. Depends, of course, on what pitching we’d include with Salty, but interesting.
could Hudson to Seattle for litle or nothing have anything to do with freeing up $$$ to try and keep Andruw?
Well, if we’re trying to get Baldelli for left field, we should try to tempt Beane with Diaz and Giles in a Blanton deal.
Don’t we have a crap pile of outfielders? and by crap pile I mean quantity not quality.
@85
Scott Thorman at first still makes feelings of “EW” spring up.
Yes, dans, we do. But every team has something like that. We also have a crap pile of second basemen.
Baldelli doesn’t make my heart go pitter-pat. Power, yes, strikes out a lot, doesn’t walk much & makes $2M.
Time for my daily mention of Crawford…
If were going to offer Salty/Davies…etc, why not try and go for Crawford, TB said earlier that they want two good pitching prospects for Carl and he is better than Baldelli. He has some power, .300 hitter, speed, great defense and can hit leadoff….JS…do it.
The Pirates are plenty eager to trade for Atlanta first baseman Adam LaRoche, and they have offered closer Mike Gonzalez to get him.
But the Braves are waiting to make sure Gonzalez is healthy, and that has left a potentially done deal in total limbo.
Gonzalez did not pitch after Aug. 24 because of tendinitis in his left elbow. The elbow was examined Aug. 28 with an arthrogram, a procedure in which dye is injected into the affected area to enhance the test’s images, and no damage was detected. Gonzalez was back to pitching in side sessions by the final week of September.
Because he did not pitch again in a game, though, Atlanta officials have raised a red flag about a trade that otherwise already would have been executed, according to multiple sources.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06340/744098-100.stm
I am dying here. I have been checking the wire every 10 minutes to see if Schuerholz has ruined my April-October plans yet.
If you’re dying, shouldn’t you be worried about something besides Adam LaRoche?
well then I guess I was right…
Hampton news…
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2688529
i know he’s to be taken with a grain of salt, but Shanks is reporting that HoRam to Seattle for Rafael Soriano is a done deal. Good move, if it’s true.
Ok I checked his stats, and Baldelli looks like Jeff Francouer light with more speed. Not sure this what we want as a leadoff hitter in return for Salty, and Davies. Just throwing that out there.
Note that Shanks also reported that Glavine coming back to the Braves was a “done deal”.
I hope Gonzales is healthy…..so I guess we are waiting for some mediacal exams?
i retain a healthy skepticism towards anything he says … but i’m keeping my fingers crossed that he’s right this time.
Well if the rumors are true, here’s what we got.
Atl gives : LaRoche, Salty, Davies, Horam
Atl gets : Gonzalez, Baldelli, and R Soriano
still free’s up enough salary to keep Giles. We are giving up some offense and average arms for decent relievers and a good/cheap LF. I like it
Speaking of health & Rafael Soriano…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ouelcsnx3t0
Just a general question, do they serve a lot of liquor at these Winter Meetings, or is it all business.
Jason Jennings is not the answer.
Touche.
I kind of hope that Gonzalez is not healthy, so they call this whole business off.
So yeah, nothing but trade talk is up on this page, and yet, we have made no trades. It is nice to hear that we arent going after the cormier’s or villareal’s of the world( Oh wait…I forgot Hayden Penn), but at some point I want something to happen
Baldelli was being asked to do a bit more in that TB lineup, than he would be asked to do with the Braves. I’ve seen him play a few times, and remember really liking him. The primary stats are pretty good. Mac or someone like him could tell us a bit more about the advanced stats.
And what does Soriano add? what kind of stuff does he have?
I guess Soriano has some pretty good stuff…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/soriara01.shtml
Yes Mac, throw around some of that Eqa, OPS+, VORP and Warp….
Jeff,
Don’t you think Baldelli will be asked to do a lot more next year when Andruw gone?
Beldelli was third in the ROY voting in 2003 — he was widely expected to win, but then everyone figured out that he wasn’t that great — and showed no improvement in 2004, then missed all of 2005 with an injury. He came back with a 3/5 season last year, hit .300 with power but very few walks. He’s better than Francoeur, but then he’s older. Most-similar players are interesting, the first is Big Sarge not Overpaid Sarge:
1. Gary Matthews (969)
2. Ellis Burks (968)
3. Carlos Beltran (965)
4. Garry Maddox (962)
5. Vernon Wells (954)
6. Augie Galan (953)
7. Bruce Campbell (953)
8. Juan Encarnacion (950)
9. Vic Wertz (949)
10. Steve Kemp (948)
http://braves.scout.com/2/598302.html
Mike Lieberthal agrees with a 1-year deal with the Dodgers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2688790
Thank you Jay10
Thank you Jay10
Thank you Jay10
If you believe this stuff, Baldelli is also being sought by the White Sox.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-0612060196dec06,1,862316.story?coll=cs-baseball-print
um….woops
Do we need Soriano AND Gonzalez? Maybe JS then trades Giles for a mid-rotation starter, but that leaves noone left to trade for a LF. I’m not crazy about Baldelli . . .
I’ve seen Baldelli in person for the past 2 years living here in Tampa, and the guy is sick. He can run, he can throw, he can hit for power, but he can’t walk. He’s not a lead-off hitter, but I would stick him in the two-hole. Shoot, hold on to Andruw and he’d be the best left fielder we could get. There’s a reason Carl Crawford was made a LF.
Anyone notice that Burgos was Dominican? I guess thats we he was acquired by Minaya to be a part of Los Mets
I’d trade him Aybar for Wright.
1. Stu ~ I’m trying to figure out why in Business Crimes at UGA they teach Male Fraud. Does that involve Mike Piazza in a dress?
2. I hate the concept of trading young position players for relievers. Its a treadmil strategy: you’ve got to keep doing it over and over and over because no reliever short of Trevor Hoffman or Mariano Rivera will be consistent and durable for the long run. Conversly, young position players are *relatively* easily projectable and have a much longer shelf life. I’m not a LaRoche fan, but don’t want to see him go for a reliever. Don’t let the horrors of ’06 make you forget the wonders of the Braves scrap heap bullpens from ’91 to ’05.
3. I got my copy of Harball Times Annual yesterday. Its great! Mac’s piece won’t shock anyone who has been reading here for a while. I’d like more thought about the change in process from the AOL/TW merger that seems to be accelerating with the Liberty purchase discussions. The other one that I really liked on first reading was the Team Defense that John Dewan wrote. His numbers continue to show ATL having great outfield defense but (nearly?) the worst in the majors on the infield.
I don’t know how much I like the Baldelli rumors – he seems to be Frenchy minus 25 lbs. Great athlete, winsome smile, ethnic surname, high K/BB ratio, capable of highlight reel plays but prone to long slumps, etc.
from MLB rumors..
Mariners Trade Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez
Bill Shanks of Scout.com is reporting that the Mariners have traded reliever Rafael Soriano to the Braves for Horacio Ramirez. He also mentions that Atlanta is close to an Adam LaRoche for Mike Gonzalez swap.
The first rumor, if true, seems a steal for the Braves. Soriano would automatically become Atlanta’s best reliever, Wickman included.
The second trade has been tossed around for some time but it was said that Dave Littlefield wouldn’t surrender Gonzalez.
http://www.spitter.com/spitter_piazza_wed.htm
If Gonzales proves healthy and both of those deals go down, those are two great moves. Look at the potential pen :
Wickman(c)
Gonzales + Soriano (set-up)
Then: Boyer, McBride,Yates, Paronto, Sturtze
and Devine waiting in the wings (Don’t really know yet if that is a good thing)
@130
I like it. Can we kidnap JS away from the winter meetings now?
@132
What would be so bad about that bullpen without Gonzalez? Looks like a decent pen to me — especially if you add Startup to Devine in the “waiting in the wings” category.
And I know I’ll be ducking rotten tomatoes for saying this, but a non-roster invitation to Chris Reitsma wouldn’t be a bad idea either.
Reitsma as a starter!
I am praying for the physical to fail..Mike Gonzalez’s that is
I agree, if we kept Laroche I would be fine. and the Reitsma thing isn’t that bad, but I don’t know if it will happen. Also, Phil Stockman? What about him?
Well, since Reitsma’s a Christian, he’s probably praying that he passes his physical. We’ll see what happens.
Maybe we could get Benitez and then package him and Aybar for Wright and Glavine? wih the Mets eating some salary too?
An NRI to Chris Reitsma would be nice, after he gets non-tendered. I always thought he got a bum deal here, it’d be nice to see him have another chance.
I don’t think it will happen though, I’m sure he’s more than ready to move on somewhere else, and who can blame him?
anyone besides me think that Shanks doesnt know what he’s talking about and this isnt true?
The onlly reason I bring it up is that I seem to remember hearing that Reitsma feels like he owes Cox for not fessing up to his injury last year, and would welcome another chance.
I like these unconfirmed moves quite a bit. Getting rid of Ho-Ram for an arm like Soriano’s–great move. Moving LaRoche for Gonzales–not bad at all. Along with Wickman, this is a bullpen that could make it easier not to have Smoltz pitch into the 8th every time. And by moving the others, McBride, Paronto, Yates, Villareal, et. al down, it lowers the pressure on them making them more likely to find a niche and be successful at it.
Overpaid Sarge… good one Mac.
Baldelli is an ok player. His offense looks better in center field but if they want Chuck James then the Rays are on meth. I’m not sure about trading Salty either. Especially if we are trading LaRoche.
Now why in the heck would the Mariners trade a plus reliever for an oft injured often ineffective left handed starter? If Shanks is the source then he must be talking to himself again.
Assuming it’s true, and we’ve just traded one injury-plagued pitcher for another, I just hope that we can get Soriano healthy.
Johnny,
The Mariners are desperate for rotation help, and they aren’t willing to pay the market prices, they have a strong bullpen so they can strengthen their rotation using the bullpen.
AAR,
You don’t get the beauty of the unconfirmed trade. Yes, it’s an exchange of injury-plagued arms. But here’s the best part: no more fretting over which Ho-Ram we are going to get, the one who allows mind-boggling homeruns, the one who walks 15 (okay, I’m making this a tall-tale), allows 10 hits, but manages to allow only 2 runs, or the one who starts a game in fine fashion and then injures an index finger cuticle and is out for six weeks, leaving us with Cormier, Shiel, and some guy’s whose expiration date has long since passed pitching for us. This trade if it’s true is pure genius. I’m thinking it could prolong my life at least another six months since I wouldn’t suffer from Ho-Ram induced stress any longer.
yeah, no one else has even mentioned the Soriano deal as a rumor, much less a done deal. Oh yeah, Stockman?
@128 Dan I agree with you 100% and I’ve been saying as much but baseball teams, the Braves included seem to follow trends. The trendy thing to do now is to build your bullpen with ‘established’ relievers. Last years disaster has made Schuerholz thinking that they can’t repeat the 91 to 05 success.
Rob Cope. Baldelli doesn’t suck but he just aint that good.
.289 .329 .451 780 career OPS doesn’t a good left fielder make. We get that out of a Langy/Diaz platoon.
Jeff, I’m totally with you: Soriano aside, losing HomeRun HoRam is absolutely addition by subtraction, even if losing Good HoRam is an unfortunate side effect. And, hell, if we can get that particular enigmatic Dominican live arm to pitch at a high level, then our team is instantly a couple wins better than last year. But good Lord, that’s a big if.
I take the HoRam/Soriano gamble. We can win without HoRam; we can’t win without a kick-ass bullpen.
Wow, what an awful trade by Seattle. Has Bill Bavasi gone mad? Soriano is a great arm. HoRam is not, and he’ll just get worse in the AL, though Safeco might help a bit. They’ve both got arm problems, so that part’s a wash. I just don’t know what Bavasi was thinking when he pulled the trigger on this one. Starters are more valuable than relievers in general, but not in this case, IMO.
Score one for JS.
Giants finalize their 3-year deal with C Benji Molina…
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2688994
Bengie*
Ken Rosenthal reporting the Soriano deal..
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6245076
Jay, do you have a job??? 🙂
BTW, hey Mac, what is the record for most posts in a day by a single IP address or user?
nope…but I turn 18 in a couple of weeks… 🙂
Ken Rosenthal says the Braves and Mariners are talking still. Bill Shanks is becoming worse than Ben Maller.
If given the choice, I would do the Soriano-HoRam deal and not the LaRoche-Gonzales deal.
Breaking news:
Mike Piazza has agreed with the A’s
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6245152
What’s more scary is the amount of time put into the site by those of us who actually are gainfully employed.
Johnny, with all due respect, Baldelli is that good. The rate stats you’re giving aren’t good, but you have to remember that Baldelli is 25. He missed all of 2005 and half of ’06, so 76% of the at-bats that lead to that OPS were in his age 22 and 23 seasons. Last year, his rate stats were .302 .339 .533 for a .872 OPS, which is far better than Langy/Diaz, and he’s entering his peak, so I’m sure his offense will get even better. He plays great defense, and has a good arm. Add to that the fact that he’s signed for the next 5 years at a maximum of $26M over that length, and you’ve got a great player to take on. Of course, I’d take Delmon Young, but that’s a different story.
I’m all for Baldelli if we can avoid giving up Chuck James. He’s pretty cheap.
I’m getting a different rumor here in seattle.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2003463741_mari06.html
Basically, the braves give up hudson and laroche, and get back two relievers.
Not sure I like any trade where the braves give up the two best players and get back the two worst.
Can we agree that Chuck James is fairly untouchable? I think we can.
I’m thinking that instead of going to college next year I should play baseball. Heck, maybe I’ll get a huge contract as Soriano or Lee. I suck at playing baseball, but they suck at it too.
From DOB,
“FOLKS, I can stay online every minute when I’ve got to actuall walk all over this hotel and make phone calls, etc.
ANYWAY, yes, this HORACIO for SORIANO thing is very close to happening, and it would be a HUGE deal for the Braves. Unless and until Horacio develops into a stady starter, the Braves would have won that deal by getting a nasty, nasty setup guy with closer potential.
They’re still waiting word on Gonzalez’s elbow, and this Ramirez/Soriano trade would NOT preclude the other from happening. If they get both, the Braves could go from on of the worst to perhaps the BEST NL bullpen, and that’s no exaggeration. And be set at setup and closer even after 2007 when Wickman’s gone. Wow. What a day.”
Red Sox give Julio Lugo 4 years and $36M…
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2689058
That’s a bit of old news. :p
My boss would have a stroke if he knew how much time I spent on this site, especially the last few days. However, it does help that I’m the IT director 🙂
Then you should tell him, that way he has the stroke ando you will likely be named the interim boss. ;-D
hmmm…thats not a bad idea, he is 73……
Wow, JS really needs to make a deal, we have Lance and Pedro contemplating murder…but then again..Lance you could just revive him again right?
So it’s all good 😉
Just curious, what does anyone see in Jose Castillo? Offensively, looking at his stats, he looks like he could probably compete with Prado and Pete Orr. Defensively, he was the second worst fielder in all of baseball according to some metric from Chris Dial (Manny was first).
Does he have a lot of untapped potential? He’d need to improve quite a bit at all facets to be anything but roster filler, IMO.
I could….but would I????? Probably…hard to watch Braves games from death row.
BTW, DOB says in his blog that the HoRam-Soriano deal is done. Also being reported that Gonzo’s medical reports came back clean, and that JS maybe turning that into a big deal to involve more players on both sides. Also, an Andruw to the Dodgers for Broxton/Billinglsy and Kemp or Looney is picking up serious steam….wow….
“Lee
#126. December 6th, 2006, at 5:07 PM.
Anyone notice that Burgos was Dominican? I guess thats we he was acquired by Minaya to be a part of Los Mets ”
Lee, you absolutely read my mind lol.
If the Soriano deal pans out, then I think JS should back off the LaRoche trade, which makes Salty more expendable to get Baldelli in a package with Davies or someone else.
If all those deal do/don’t happen, then JS will have successfully helped out the bullpen, gotten a more stable option in LF (not to mention a potentially CF replacement for 08 and later) and retained a good first baseman.
All we’d have to do is trade Hudson/Giles for a more quality starting pitcher, non-roster invite Reitsma to spring training, and then we can call it an offseason, boys!
I still doubt the Andruw stuff, but you never know.
Not that this is earth-shattering, but this is from Bill Madden, the NY Daily News baseball writer at the Winter Meetings, on WFAN radio today:
“I was sitting with Bobby Cox at the manager’s luncheon today, and they’re not getting into the free agent market for anybody. They’re totally focused on trades, and he told me that before we leave here the Braves should have a couple of things done.”
Where are all the complaints about JS being too boring? This stuff sounds anything but boring!
From DOB,
“Soriano for Horacio is a DONE DEAL. Hasn’t been announced yet, but done. Gonna write story and wait for announcement.
Don’t know if the other deal for Gonzalez will get done. Conflicting stuff I’m hearing, some saying that Littlefield’s dragging feet, others saying it’s Braves. I think the former….”
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2006/12/06/braves_topheavy.html
Ramirez-Soriano deal is done, hasn’t been announced, but it’s done. Bill Shanks was right.
Imagine the bullpen is Gonzalez’s elbow checks out. John Schuerholz is keeping his promise to improve this team’s pitching.
I am thrilled, I really like Soriano, in fact I am a little surprised that the M’s are trading him, but they are desperate to add starters, so i guess both teams get what they want…good job JS!
Soriano for HoRam straight up?! Bavasi is smoking crack.
Yessir,
ESPN is reporting the trade aswell!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2689119
Alright then, let’s play two…
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061205&content_id=1751323&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
Did anybody catch this gem of a quote:
“I’ve never made a trade for financial reasons,” Schuerholz said. “I’ve made trades to make our club better.”
What exactly was Millwood for Estrada ??
So this trade might actually be real? I’ll believe it when I see it.
@ 116 – Thanks, I’ll take Baldelli for Salty and Davies.
@ 115 – Maybe, but that’s a year, 162 regular season games, hopefully 11 post season games (all sweeps), and maybe even an ownership change (unless taxes are the real motivation) away. I’ll take the risk.
Great trade for us, we dont have to worry about the good or bad Horam anymore. How many people here want to see us get Baldelli for Salty and ??? and also trade Andruw to the Dodgers for Kemp and Billingsley? I’m thinking I do, outfield of Kemp, Baldelli, and Frenchy is pretty solid defensively, good power, better speed, probably the same avg, less $$$$…
Smoltz, Huddy, Hampton, Billingsly, and James pretty solid also.
CSG,
Do you think the Dodgers would even give up Billingsley? If they would be willing to part with him then yes, Kemp, Billingsley would be a very good deal. Baldelli…if I had to chose earlier today I would say no, because of Salty….but the more I read what some of you say about him, the more I look at his stats, I would take it. So I guess my answer to your question is …yes and yes. 🙂
Flip to ESPN2 and wait for “MLB” to pop up. They have the trade.
Schuerholz fleeced them, I think. The wording on ESPN and the sites make it sound like it was the Mariners who really wanted this trade. “Braves agree to send P Horacio….” The Braves agreed?
I don’t think JS trades Andruw before mid-season; and, even if so, I wonder whether Andruw would approve a trade to the Dodgers. Andruw is a good bat for a team in the chase if the Braves are not. I suspect Andruw would say yes in that case. His value is also greater then, given the current market focus on pitching.
The Devil Rays are almost impossible to trade with. They ask for entirely too much. After they made the Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir trade they started thinking they could fleece everyone, when in fact they could only make Steve Phillips look worse.
Assuming the rumors are correct, you think Salty and Davies are too much?
No, deal from an area of strength to an area of weakness. We have McCann and Pena, and a good starting rotation. We don’t have a good LF and replacement for Andruw. Baldelli is a good fit.
Dan,
Yep, just saw it…
Wow, Cubbies are drunken sailors. Just signed Lilly to 4 year deal.
Just got in from a meeting, is anything fact yet? I can not find anything.
I thought Jim Duquette made the Kazmir deal….wasn’t Phillips gone by then?
Oldtimer,
This is the only link I can find, but it is a fact, espn had it on their ticker thing on ESPN 2 like Dan said, I have seen it twice now…
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=bravesmarinersdeal&prov=st&type=lgns
Thanks Jay10
I would like the Braves to Keep LaRoche now and Dump Giles and say Davies on SD for Linebrink, think it would work gang?
Orioles- Freddie Bynum
Cubs- PTBNL
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/wires/12/06/2010.ap.bbo.orioles.cubs.trade.0123/index.html
I read the thing stopping the trade of LaRoche to the Pirates is Gonzalez not being healthy.
Linky: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06340/744098-100.stm
I like Gonzalez a bit more than Linebrink, but it’s all about getting the most from what you’re willing to give.
LaRoche for Gonzalez deal not happening:
The deal, expected to be announced late Wednesday or Thursday, was confirmed by an official with one of the teams. It doesn’t guarantee that the Braves will keep first baseman Adam LaRoche, but the Braves withdrew their offer of LaRoche for Pirates closer Mike Gonzalez.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2006/12/06/1207ramirez.html
Are we really sure this trade is going down? I expect any minute to see that the deal is off because Bobby Cox thinks HoRam will win the Cy Young next year or something. And, what the hell, why not Hudson for Felix Rodriguez? If we are going to fantasize, let’s go all the way!
HK, the D-Rays were already impossible to deal with, which (for example) is why Fred McGriff didn’t come back to Atlanta a few years ago.
Wow! A bullpen that includes Soriano and Tanyon Sturtze is ideal! Seriously, I like at least 1/2 of that combo. I want the Braves to focus on SP now and I’m glad the LaRoche/ Gonzalez deal fell through. I want us to either trade Davies or give him another year in the minors. I just don’t have much confidence in him yet as a 5th starter.
That’s too bad about the Pirates trade. Keeping LaRoche (for now) is great, but nothing wrong with having both Soriano and Gonzalez in the ‘pen.
I actually like that deal better than Figgins and Kotchman. Assuming that happens, what’s going to happen with Giles? Linebrink? I don’t like him much.
I would have loved to see the Crime Dog’s farewell tour in a Braves uniform. I hate the O-Rays or D-Rays, whichever they are calling themselves these days. How do Ramirez’s and Soriano’s contracts match up? How much money Is this deal saving the Braves?
I think the salaries are a wash…..they were both due around 2 million in arbitration.
After such a lull ya gotta love all the action going on today. Here’s hoping for more tomorrow.