ESPN – Nationals vs. Braves Box Score, September 9 2007 – MLB
And right back to the suckage. Well, what can you expect, the Nats didn’t make any errors.
Chipper gave the Braves a 2-0 lead in the first with a homer. The Nats cut it to 2-1 in the third, but Teixeira split the defense with a two-out double in the bottom of the inning, scoring Chipper from first.
Unfortunately, Cormier took the opportunity to go Chuck James in the sixth, allowing a three-run homer to turn the lead over to Washington. Moylan gave up a run in the seventh to make it 5-3.
The Braves had a good chance to get at least tied in the bottom of the seventh, as the first two runners reached. But Bobby pulled another one of his stupid-ass pinch-bunts, which Stinky Pete couldn’t quite botch. Then Harris struck out for the third time in a row, Renteria walked, and Chipper grounded out.
The Nats got a run in the eighth to make it 6-3, Teixeira led off with a homer to make it 6-4, and the Nats got that right back with another homer for the final score.
Go Braves, I guess…
LSU is scary. That is all.
it amazes me how either cox, orr, woodward, andruw, or a combo of the 4 suckages ruin every game.
I suppose it was too much to ask for this team to win 4 in a row. Now I bet we see a meaningless 2/3 wins at Shea.
Is there anyone who still thinks it wise to give Andruw Jones 15-18 million?
Hard as it is to believe, I think Norv Turner has actually gotten worse as a head coach.
#4, I’d give it to him if I had a $200 million payroll like New York. For the Braves, no.
Dan,
I never thought that was wise in the first place, but I know that someone out there will, and it won’t be the Braves. Good riddance.
Sam and Dan,
The ARBITRTOR will decide what it is wise to pay Andruw, unless JS has seen enough so bad he doesn’t even offer ARB.
Anybody,
Why is Carlyle still starting over Reyes? At this point, JoJo may be only marginally better, but every start he makes is helping Reyes get over the hump to be an effective MLB starter.
I am one who loved the Buddy Carlyle story. I still think it is possible that the lost control he has suffered over the last 5 weeks or so is related to his elbow injury; however, right now, pitching him isn’t helping and pitching Reyes might help now and certainly helps in the long run.
On Phil Stockman, there was something I saw at MiLB.com that indicated he was being allowed to pitch for the Australian national team for the Olympics next year. I am curious how that impacts his reserve status with the Braves. I hate it for us, but if the Braves knew about this, that may be why he wasn’t FREED.
By the way, Stockman got the win in game 5 Saturday for Richmond to advance to finals of International League Series. They beat the AAA Yankees, for what that is worth.
The ARBITRTOR will decide what it is wise to pay Andruw, unless JS has seen enough so bad he doesn’t even offer ARB.
Or Andruw Jones will just leave via free agency.
Surely Schuerholz learned in the past not to offer arbitration to a player you don’t want back or can’t afford to keep. Andruw Jones might “pull a Maddux” if you give him the chance.
Before the season I wrote about the disaster that would be upon us if Andruw walked as a free agent. Now I’m going to be just fine with Blanco, Lillibridge, and whoever else fights it out to start in CF.
do you guys think frenchie can handle center?
Put Diaz in LF full time time and search for a cheap RF retread or a Blanco type.
Francoeur in center? Not what I want to see. Put Blanco in center, platoon Brandon Jones and Matt Diaz in LF (assuming Jones does well in Spring) and send Willie to the bench or the moon. Then take whatever money Liberty is willing to spend and get some starting pitching. Oh, and don’t give Woodward $850,000 unless the Mets promise to take him back and give him 500 at bats next season.
We don’t want a rookie to be our only option at CF.
I say we offer Andruw arbitration. Worst-case scenario, he’s back for one year. I think it’s unlikely that his career completely falls off a cliff, and I think it’s not unreasonable to expect another .260/35 year out of him next year, in which case, 1 year at like 10M would be a great deal, especially once you factor in his (still outstanding) defense. Unlike the Maddux situation, we don’t currently have a glut of ML-quality CFs.
The rest of the roster fills out pretty easily. As for starters, well… next year isn’t the best time to be looking for one. I think Kyle Lohse heads the class. >_
Blanco sucks. I’d rather leave Francoeur in right, install Brandon Jones in left, sign a really cheap free agent like Mike Cameron and keep Matt Diaz as the fourth outfielder and as a good pinch hitter.
Or if even more money is needed to improve this rotation like it needs to be; Francoeur in center, Brandon Jones in left and Diaz in right.
It’s time to say Bye-Bye to Andruw. It was nice having him on the team.
Wickman complained about pitching in non-save situation, and now he is a mid-innings reliever for the D-backs…stupid…
It’s time to say Bye-Bye to Andruw. It was nice having him on the team.
Indeed. He’s going to have a nice bounce back season next year for someone that will drive us all crazy.
It’s been a great run. It’s a shame it had to end like this.
Obviously we need a real solution in center. The farm system isn’t going to solve this one. Directly, anyway.
Ya know, after looking at Escobar’s and Johnson’s splits, it is actually pretty smart to platoon them. While KJ isn’t terrible against lefties, Escobar flat out rakes against lefties, so that’s not a bad idea. I was surprised that KJ pretty much has a .900 OPS against righties. Impressive…
It was even worse to see in person. I’ve now seen Pete Orr take batting practice.
The horror…
Fortunately it was “Bark In The Park”. Watching the game in person with our good buddy, Mr. Cairo. Whoo-hoo!!! Wish I could do it every game. Highly recommended.
kc,
It’s funny how relievers who complain about not pitching in the closer’s role in Atlanta seem to settle for lesser jobs on other teams.
Bob Wickman has gone the way of Dannys Baez. Not the greatest route to take, I say…
#21…being in first place goes a LONG WAY to making people shut up
Yeah but Wickman is ineligible for the postseason with the Diamondbacks. So what’s being in first place matter to Wickman now?
Yep, so he ain’t getting no ring if the DBacks go all the way. 😛
They’ll find a way to sneak him in. Someone will get “injured” and he’ll slide in.
I doubt Wickman planned to be released, but it’s very obvious he can’t keep his mouth shut whether it’s at the after game buffet or to reporters.
Wickman is now free to blow 4 run leads for Webb in Arizona.
mraver,
You’re assuming that Andruw would only get $10 mm in arbitration. I don’t think that’s correct because the arbitrator would probably factor in his entire career, not just this year. I suspect any arbitration award would be much more in the $15-$16 million range, even after a bad year. And the way it works is each side submits an offer and the arbitrator chooses.
AFAIK, arbitration is supposed to be what the player would get on the open market. (Someone, please correct me if you have information on this!) As such, given Druw’s .220 BA, I’m not sure I see him getting very big money. The problem with Maddux wasn’t that he got over-paid; it’s that we were dealing with salary restrictions and had a glut of pitching at the time. The price was fine, IIRC.
Anyhow, if arbitration works, Druw should only accept if he’s not able to get a lot on the open market, in which case, the arbitration figure shouldn’t be that high.
And it’s just one year. Not like we’re giving him $75M/5 or something.
Arbitration is based upon what similar players (similar age and seniority, similar position, similar stats) make. It’s also, however, based upon what the player already makes. Andruw made, I think, $14 million this year, so that’s the starting point.
Agreed on Andruw’s arb – I would bet, if he accepts, we end up paying him $15M next year. I would offer it to him if I were JS, since we do need to replace him and our minor league options at center are another year away. It’s not the end of the world if we keep Andruw one more year. I suspect he will be a lot better next year. If he goes to another team, we get draft picks, which is what I really want.
Richmond beat the S/W-B Yankees in four. The Yanks were supposed to be the better team, but the Braves mounted comeback wins in games 3 & 4, in the 8th and 9th innings, respectively. Brandon Jones and Lillibridge were central to the team’s success. Each deserves a shot at the roster next year and both could figure into the outfield picture, though I think Lilli’s chances of playing center are exaggerated. The Braves have some of the top defensive centerfielders in the minors with Gregor Blanco, Matt Young, and Jordan Schafer. Schafer is probably the guy we want, but he won’t be ready at the beginning of next year, IMO.
And whoever said that Reyes should be starting over Carlyle, I could not agree more. Starting Reyes is obviously better for this team’s future, but I would argue, based on their recent outings, that it is better for this team in 2007, too.
why should we care anymore, the team doesnt
I agree with Parish. It’s nice to pretend we are still in the race but I don’t see any great likelihood of winning 12 in a row and, anyway, it’s not clear that Carlyle really gives the Braves any better chance of winning now. Pitch Reyes and see if he really has anything.
#28 – nope, no way any other manager but our own allows one reliever to blow a 4 run lead. Bobby is the only manager still alive who thinks a reliever/closer should always finish the inning he starts.
sign a really cheap free agent like Mike Cameron
I don’t expect Cameron to be “really cheap”—am I wrong about this? Yes, he’s old, but he’s very good. Maybe the fact that there are about 35 free-agent CFs on the market will drive his price down, but I still think you’re underestimating how much a guy like that would cost.
I am also on the side of offering Andruw arbitration. It’s worth having either Andruw’s bounce-back year or the quality draft picks. And I don’t see any SPs worth offering that money to, anyway. There are no good FAs (Silva’s OK, but he’s going to be making at least $10MM per season, and that’s way too much), and I don’t see us having much left to trade.
And I also agree about pitching Reyes over Carlyle.
On the Andruw arb offer, I suspect that if Andruw accepts arbitration, that Scott Boras will be on Andruw’s ass to get him in better shape so that he looks and moves better. I suspect that the odds are 80% that Andruw comes close to his 2004-2006 average performance and probably 40% that he exceeds.
Everybody is correct that next year replacing Andruw internally is dicey. By the next year, either Brandon Jones to right and Francoeur to center, or Jordan Schaeffer to center are realistic options.
But how do we know that 2004-2006 was the expected norm and not an aberration? Everyone acts as if that is his average performance. What if those were outliers? My point is, if you are going to pay Andruw $15 mm, you had better be pretty confident that he is at least going to give you something close to 2005-2006. I wouldn’t expect him to hit .220 again (which I suspect was largely due to injuries), but I don’t know if 2005-2006 is realistic either.
And I don’t see any SPs worth offering that money to, anyway. There are no good FAs (Silva’s OK, but he’s going to be making at least $10MM per season, and that’s way too much), and I don’t see us having much left to trade.
That where the ‘let Andruw go and fix the pitching’ argument runs into problems. There are no big time FA pitchers out there (and even if there were, as a group they are about the worst value you can imagine). You’ll have flexibility in case someone else has a salary crunch and needs to dump a contract, but that’s not really a plan.
We’ll see how it goes I guess.
Well, if Andruw walks, we use that salary to pay for Hudson’s and Smoltz’s increases and we get draft picks. So that’s okay, I guess. We’ll still have some millions left because of certain people who aren’t with the team anymore or won’t be next year.
We only get the picks if we offer arbitration, though.
New poll.
Sure he couldn’t fix Andruw, but we hit the hell out of the ball this year. I went easy on TP.
Having never played baseball at a professional level, i wonder how effectual batting and pitching coaches are. So i have a hard time asigning much blame to TP and Roger. That said, I think the Braves would have got as much help from that McGriff video as thay did from these two guys.
That Matt Schaub guy can play…maybe the Falcons should trade for him.
Who was “assign blame III?” I think I missed that one.
McDowell.
McDowell?
Sorry I missed that one. It is definitely a higher number than Pendleton.
I blamed ’em both. Kill the coaches!
It’s not worth taking a risk on Andruw Jones “bouncing back” next season for 15 million (and the people saying he’ll do good next season are probably the same ones swearing he’d go on a huge tear after the all-star break).
The Braves need starting pitching. That’s it. Pass on giving Andruw Jones 15 million that could go a long way to improving the starting rotation for 2008.
Dan,
Which starting pitching? How could that money “go a long way to improving the starting rotation for 2008”? You keep saying this, but I’m having trouble figuring out what you mean.
Tennessee 31 Florida 48. It is going to suck
That’s for Schuerholz to figure out. It doesn’t have to be a free agent, you know? Maybe Javier Vazquez and his expensive contract?
I give Terry a 1. He’s actually doing a very nice job with the young guys. Andruw is just pigheaded and injuries didn’t help him either. The offense has been great overall.
As for starting pitchers, take your pick. There’s a whole lot of them who are better than Buddy Carlyle, Lance Cormier, Jojo Reyes, and even Chuck James. Possible free agents include Shilling, Maddux, and Glavine for instance all of whom would fit in nicely into the #3 spot in our rotation with Hampton #4 and James #5 with Cormier around to take over the #5 spot when Hampton goes down to injury.
Dan,
If Renteria won’t net Garland, what do we possibly have that could get us Vazquez?
Dan,
Can he play centerfield, too?
I say offer arb to Andruw. I would not be heartbroken if we get the draft picks instead.
If Renteria won’t net Garland, what do we possibly have that could get us Vazquez?
The White Sox likely didn’t do that because they’ve set their sights on getting David Eckstein at all costs. But there has to be something they want. Salary relief maybe? I don’t know, maybe Garland for Renteria or Escobar is still possible if they fail in getting Eckstein?
Can he play centerfield, too?
No but he can pitch, which should be the obvious need to anyone who has watched and followed the 2007 Atlanta Braves.
Well, regardless of what we do for starting pitching, we need someone to play centerfield. Whom do you propose?