Sigh.
I don’t know when the recap for this game will be posted. Maybe right after, more likely at some unpredictable point in the early morning. Don’t ask.
PS: I don’t know why this was posted, I meant to delay it until the morning. I guess I screwed up. Whatever.
PPS: There’s a new poll.
Can we “sweeten” the package by including Thorman, Woodward, and Ledezma?
I am a Canadian but jeez we give up on a 25 year old kid hitting 220 for a 48 year old hitting 200. Go figure????
So the question is, how will we lose this one? How about this time we get the lead and then blow it? You know, just to change it up a little.
Ironically, I don’t think anyone is rallying for Thorman to get more playing time.
I guess that’s not ironic at all. Just sad I guess.
What are the odds of us pulling off two major trades (the Tex trade and PLEASE GOD a starting pitcher) in the next three days?
50-1, I’d guess.
Schuerholz was trying with the Renteria-for-Garland trade and the Teixeira trade. Who knows what he’s doing? He could surprise us all…be it in a good way or a bad one.
Sell. Sell. Sell.
See if Devine and the chafe in Richmond/team formerly in Greenville can outpitch our current scrubs.
No point in trading Salty for Texy. Not like we can afford to keep him or he’s good enough to make us better than the other NL teams competing for playoff spots.
Sell. Sell. Sell.
This nightmare trade scenario from Jayson Stark, I couldn’t imagine a dumber trade from the Braves stand point:
This isn’t a negotiation anymore. It’s a chess match. No, hold on. It’s two chess matches. On one side of the board is Texas GM Jon Daniels. He has an offer from the Braves that clubs we’ve talked to think the Rangers should jump at. He has two-thirds of an offer from the Angels that forms the foundation for the boldest deadline deal Angels GM Bill Stoneman has ever made. But Daniels hasn’t said yes to either of them. Instead, he seems to be waiting for those clubs to fatten those offers even further, while hoping some other team on the periphery (Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees) comes roaring back into the picture. But on the other side of this chess board are two veteran GMs — John Schuerholz and Bill Stoneman — who are tougher to push than a stalled-out Hummer. One of Schuerholz’s and Stoneman’s peers said Saturday: “My question is, at what point are they pushing the wrong two guys? I’m sure John Schuerholz isn’t going to dance like this until the 31st. He’s not the kind of guy who’s going to sit there and wait till the deadline and wind up not improving his team.” Meanwhile, one AL executive had similar sentiments about Stoneman, saying: “Bill is not somebody who will overreact just because somebody is trying to make him think his back is against the wall.” So if the Rangers wait much longer, they’re on dangerous ground. The Angels, contrary to some of the rumblings out there, apparently have not backed out of the Teixeira derby. What they have done, as we reported in Friday’s Stark Market, was tell Texas they were willing to include Casey Kotchman and Joe Saunders, but they’ve said no way, no chance, no shot on adding either their most advanced pitching prospect, Nick Adenhart, or their most advanced minor-league hitter, third baseman Brandon Wood. And that, we’re hearing, is a line they’ve drawn in permanent ink. The Braves also appear to be digging in on their own offer — of Jarrod Saltalamacchia, shortstop prospect Elvis Andrus and arguably the Braves’ best left-handed pitching prospect, Matt Harrison. The Braves still would like to get another player back — presumably left-hander C.J. Wilson. But there were indications Saturday the Braves might be willing to make a 3-for-1 trade, although that would open the possibility that the names could change slightly. At this point, the Braves and Angels appear to be treading water, awaiting an answer. But we’d bet they’ll tread for only so long.
JB…isn’t that the same trade that’s been talked about for awhile?
You have lost your mind. Even if there was no chance that we make the playoffs this year, we still wouldn’t sell, because we would be trying to do the same next year. And we’re still close in the wild card. Jesus! Get a grip!
And yes, Teixeira is good enough to make us better than the other NL teams going for playoff spots.
If it’s waiting for Bud’s approval, going back to the previous thread, I’m guessing that would happen after the Hall of Fame ceremony tomorrow if it hasn’t happened already. But honestly, when he’s out “on business” as it were, can’t he have his second-in-command (or in this case third-in-commmand since DuPuy is also out in San Francisco this weekend) look at the deal and approve it or if there’s something that he should be concerned about, then call him? What do you think the chances are that any of the inns in Cooperstown have fax machines? Having been there, I’m guessing the answer is zero.
I’m just trying to be realistic.
As much as I wish he would, Tex won’t make us better than the Mets.
Post trade I’d give them: SS, SP, RP, CF
More or less even: 1B, 2B, 3B, LF
Us: C, RF
And that pitching advantage once Pedro comes back will be insurmountable.
We need to think post Andruw and that mean selling Wickman/Renteria and some of our other assets now. It won’t severly diminish our chances this year, which regardless are going to be based a lot on luck. And it will improve our long term prospects by building on our solid young core, Chipper and Smoltz.
JB, get some air.
Jon Daniels thinks he can out-maneuver JS and Stoneman? I guess the guy is simply not afraid of keeping Tex. Daniels is not the smartest GM I have seen, so he may surprise everyone by keeping Tex. He has been badly burned by the trade of Chris Young and Soriano. Perhaps now he is just as gun-shy as Stoneman is.
Don’t just call me an ass. Please convince me otherwise. I want us to win it all badly. Please tell me how trading Salty, Harrison, and Elvus Andrus for a Tex rental make us superior to the Mets this year and in the next 5 years.
Make me a believer. I’m a cool aid drinker if ever there was one.
Delgado is the same as Tex? Whatever crap the Mets has is the same as Escobar/KJ? Everybody, the guy is a Mets fan.
Apparently Billy Knight has entered the thread, ladies and gentlemen.
These insurmountable Mets are playing almost as badly as we are, and why in the hell does everybody keep forgetting the wild card? We’re only 3.5 games back in that, and absolutely none of the teams involved are the least bit frightening. And this division is still winnable if we get Teixeira and a reliever.
I must say though, it would almost serve Daniels right if he wound up having to keep Teixeira and not have any young talent to build on if he’s being a complete moron like Stark is suggesting.
Well, Nick, considering the trade of Chris Young and Soriano, the guy may deserve such reputation after all…
JB, for one, Teixeira wouldn’t be a “rental”. If you’re going to use that term, know what it means. A rental player is a player you trade for at the deadline who becomes a free agent at that season’s end. Bob Wickman was a rental last season, Kyle Farnsworth the year before. Teixeira is not a free agent at the end of the 2007 season, meaning he is NOT a rental.
Second, it makes us better because the alternatives are Julio Franco and Scott Thorman. The Braves are worst in all the majors at first base. Seems rather obvious for an upgrade at that spot.
I don’t think I’d give him shortstop, either. Maybe that’s even, but having Reyes is not markedly better than having Renteria. At least not in a short-term standpoint.
Chris Young is bad, but I don’t see the problem with trading Soriano. A player like that isn’t really useful to a team who’s gonna finish in last place.
KC,
I’ve been posting on this board since 2002. Go back and look if you don’t believe me.
Same here JB, I think we started posting here at around the same time, but your analysis is flawed. That’s all I want to say.
As to Tex being a rental.
We get him for the rest of this year. Then we get the joy of going to arbitration with him next year. Where, if he is good enough to get us over the top, we’ll get the honor of paying him 12-14 million dollars in 2008.
I definitely consider that to be a rental situation, maybe not a room at Days Inn for the night, but a condo at the beach for the summer.
My preference would be to see us trade Renteria and Wickman for some players that could help us in 2008 or 2009 and see if Escobar can cut it at SS, Devine as a setup man, Soriano as a closer, and Salty as 1B.
I’m not convinced that we’d be in any worse position to win this year than we are right now. We improve for the future and we clear salary space moving forward.
Right now I just don’t see how Tex gets us over the top. I believe that our pitching just isn’t quite going to be strong enough to enable us to win it all this year.
JB,
If Saltalamacchia was going to be the Braves’ first baseman, they would have done it now and never signed Franco in the first place.
If he does get us over the top, does it matter all that much if he is a rental or not? Flags fly forever.
What teams are going to give us players who can contribute in the next year or two for Renteria or Wickman? We gave up an A-ball catcher for Wickman and a triple-A 3b who, while our top prospect at the time, has stalled and is nowhere near as appealing as he once was for Renteria.
Titles aren’t won with a collection of merely “good” players; they are won with a combination of stars and “good” players. Teixeira gives us another star for three players who could be stars…or may not be stars. It’s a gamble, but given our track record in dealing away prospects it’s one that is likely to at least end in a draw. The NL is wide-open and we are very much in it. Teixeira gives us a chance that our current roster probably doesn’t.
The Braves still control Soriano’s rights for the next several years. If they’re going to sell, it will be players who either won’t figure in next year’s plans (Wickman, Andruw if he waves his 10-5 rights) or players whose value is higher now in trade than it will likely be for next year’s team, and who can be replaced in-house (Renteria, possibly a reliever such as Paronto or Villarreal).
over their careers, chipper and andruw have both beat up on livan hernandez. i’m thinking the bravos end the slide…
I don’t think we can count on Andruw to do anything offensively…
i’ll go ahead and give the unwanted pun…
of course we can, his whole game has been offensive lately (rim shot)
Word is that the Royals are looking for a 2B prospect for Octavio Dotel?
I’d trade Brent Lillibridge for Dotel. Lillibridge is well regarded as prospects go, but he’s not going to play over Kelly and it looks like we’re keeping Escobar around for the post-Renteria era.
Get Dotel. (And Teixeira with Texas relief pitcher, but that seems obvious.)
Oh and Bill Stoneman pulling the Angels out of the running for Teixeira was the most predictable event of the trading season. Stoneman constantly overvalues his prospects and rides their value down to nothing–Kendry Morales, Dallas McPherson, Jeff Mathis, etc. (with Ervin Santana and Brandon Wood dropping).
JB, that’s why we’re better off picking up Teixeira for the next year and a half. Salty’s not a plus at 1B anyway. Andrus and Harrison are not helping this year and may not in the future even if they stay.
[The Braves] rank last in the majors with a collective average and 37 RBIs from [first base], while no other NL team was below .244. Braves first basemen were last in on-base percentage (.269) and slugging percentage (.358).
——————–
Got the above info from an AJC article. That is beyond awful and from the #1 offensive position in baseball. Teixeira will make a HUGE difference for this team!
Let’s talk about what will happen instead of what we think. JS hasn’t sold since 1990. He didn’t sell last year when the Braves were in worse position with a worse team. There’s 2 full months of baseball to be played and the Braves even if they lose today and the Mets win will be 5.5 games out in the East and 4.5 games out in the Wild Card — still very much within striking distance. Selling now doesn’t fix the first base problem and bullpen for next year. There is no doubt JS is going to buy if he can. He may not be able to if his trading partners are dumb, but he wants to.
I’m surprised by the strong showing for “nothing”.
Even with these losses, I still say we need Tex. One other point mentioned several times over the past week, JB, is that having Tex next year (even at arb. prices) will help make up for Andruw’s supposed offensive production when he walks (and if somehow we can sign him with Liberty taking on a higher payroll, then we have pretty nice 3,4,5 hitters for 2008.)
I know as soon as I mention his name some folks on here will automatically discount this but I have to agree with Joe Simpson. In Jo Jo’s last outing he said he can’t wait to see him pitch with some run support. Then he went on to expound on the advantages to a pitching staff when they are given a lead to pitch with. This is why we need Tex. Tex batting 4th will make Chipper better. Andruw batting 5th or 6th will minimize his “black-holiness”. We will start putting runs on the board. The starting pitchers will relax and pitch better. We won’t need as much work out of the bullpen so they will get some rest and perform better when needed. One big dominoe effect…. if we solve the hitting and I don’t see any better way to do it than by getting Tex.
I feel like the team is underperforming waiting to get Tex, just like they underperform waiting to get Chipper back from the bench/DL.
Anyway, isn’t it at least a little more likely that we can resign Tex with contracts leaving the books around the time he should walk? And we keep talking about how we’re into our last couple chances with the core we’ve got. I say we take advantage.
great point, Adam…
Tex may want to stay in Atlanta (GTech product, btw) and may take 16 mil over 5 to stay here
and that would allow us to trade away chipper (for pitching…phillip huges anyone???) and go hard after cabraea (spelling?) the 3B from Fla
that with Mcann, Frenchy, Brandon Jones, and Kelly…
not to mention the trade bait that is Kala at DoubleA
Well, if they’re underperforming because they’re waiting, that’s not a good sign. I expect guys making millions of dollaws to be able to play a kid’s game even when they have to wait an extra week for the upgrade at 1st base.
Brandon Wood’s value is going down to nothing? Uh, no.
Chris,
Yeah, the Braves will downgrade their offense for a pitching prospect, and to the damn Yankees, no less.
You need some air too.
Let’s throw Andruw and Thorman in the deal too! Shit, just get it done!
I think if we sell the farm to get Teixiera and we go to the WS it is worth it. I don’t think it is worth it to win the WC and then lose in the first or second round of the playoffs.
I still think that the tremendous upgrade Tex would provide at 1B is enough to make us the best NL team. Our pitching is still too shaky.
The other thing to remember is that we aren’t operating in a vacuum here. Any of the other NL contenders can go out and get players as well.
I think the Rangers are stupid and this should be the last time we ever deal with them. If the reports are true they are stupid not to jump on the reported deal.
There is something to be said about waiting, but I am sure JS is looking else where too. I hope we cut a deal with an AL West team and Salty becomes a Ranger killer.
“I’m surprised by the strong showing for “nothing”.”
Well, I wanted to vote for ‘buy’ but I clicked ‘nothing’ by mistake. I’m pro-Tex.
Dear Texas Rangers,
If you don’t want to make the deal for Teixiera, I just want you to know that I would be happy with Erik Bedard, Jamie Walker and Kevin Millar.
Best Regard,
Smitty & His Barber
P.S. I think we should have a poll to name my barber.
Here are some ideas:
Sal Smitty
Jim Smitty
Smitty Smiterson
Smitty McSmit
Ringo Starr
I like Smitty McSmit. 🙂
JB,
But how likely are these players to put them over the top? The only big moves I know of are Linebrink to Brewers, Cantu to Reds and Wigginton to Astros.
Teixeira is clearly the biggest fish out there and he’d have the biggest chance of putting the Braves over the hump.
Tex and CJ Wilson is nice. Tex alone is not nice at all.
Adam M, I didn’t say that Brandon Wood’s value was nothing, but that it had dropped measurably from its height after his California-league aided season. His has good, but not great power for a 3B and strikes out a ton. He’s still good, and the Angels would have been giving to much to send he and Kotchman.
However, you can probably pick up former “Wood” quality prized prospects Kendry Morales, Jeff Mathis and Dallas McPherson for the proverbial ham sandwich.
How about Brutus The Beefcake, Smitty?
Cary’s absolutely right about Wood. It wasn’t long ago that he was THE hot prospect in baseball, and now he’s not even in that discussion.
Great! First, some of you wanted to trade Renty, now Chipper? Chris, what’s happening, man?
BTW, Rosenthal’s latest is that we offered Renteria AND “a top pitching prospect” for Garland and were turned down. If that’s true, God bless Kenny Williams. And I’m terrified.
Seriously, Stu. That would be an awful deal for Garland. I didn’t like Renteria for Garland, but I understood the idea. Throwing in a top pitching prospect to sweeten the deal puts it past acceptability for me, even within the context of that idea.
Thanks, Kenny.
55 — stu, that’s a great name suggestion… i vote for that one
the braves are off monday. i think the deal for tex happens then… or that it probably won’t happen.
Have we ever been involved in one of the first mid-season trades? It sucks to see other teams making moves and helping themselves and us just sitting and waiting.
explain this to me…this was a play in the Yankees game. This is from Gameday
Rodriguez grounds into double play, second to first to second to catcher to second to first to second to catcher, J Damon scored, D Jeter out at home, D Jeter out at 3rd…
anybody follow that one?
Mets and Phils are both winning
If yiu look up Elvis Andrus on Wikipedia it says he was traded to the Texas Rangers in a deal for Mark Teixeira on July 29th. What’s the deal ?
Wikipedia sucks, anyone can go in there and edit the page. It means absolutely nothing
Thanks.
I dont know how credible this is, or if you guys care to hear it, but my friend works for a major league baseball front office, the Washington nationals, and he told me that he understands that Eric Gange will be a part of the Texiera deal with salty andrus and harrison going to texas, that would put us in a good spot down the stretch i would think, with gange i would trade right now
whoever wanted Jason Jennings from Houston
check out his line from today
0.2IP 8H 11ER 3BB 0SO
I’ll take either Gagne or Wilson and be happy with the deal. I would rather get Wilson because he’s cheaper and he’s a lefty
I dont like it 3-1 unless there are major cash considerations
Well, Like I mentioned, I dont know how true it is, what my friend is feeding me, he might just be trying to play big shot, but he said its def not a 3-1 and that he heard Gange has been included and that JS refuses to do a 3-1 and will take his business elsewhere if they dont make it a 3-2
DOB reporting that Ledezma has been DFA’d.
Ascanio has been called up.
Can we have McBride back.
Fredo was TERRIBLE. That might have been the worst small trade in teh history of my life watching baseball. he was atrocious since he got here. Fredo, I know it was you, you broke my heart!
I can’t wait to see what moves we make. We have to do something soon or I will die.
The Astros DFA’d Morgan Ensberg. He had a .396 OBP just last year and was their 2nd best offensive player in the WS run 2 years ago. Weird.
What a trade. I miss Macay.
You think Ledezma was DFA’s because the Teixeira/pleaseWilsonnotMahay deal is done?
The “delenda est” bit has been working pretty well thus far this season, minus Woodward.
Maybe we could send Ledezma to Houston for Ensberg, who could be Chipper’s caddy.
Okay, probably not.
Maybe we can pick up Ensberg and drop Woodward
“DOB reporting that Ledezma has been DFA’d.”
You gotta be kidding. Worst trade ever.
Despite the offensive BS we’ve seen lately, Bobby trots out the same lineup
LF Harris
SS Renteria
3B Chipper
CF Andruw
C McCann
RF Francoeur
2B Johnson
1B Franco
P Hudson
I sure wish Bobby were as patient with young pitchers as he is with young hitters. If he had been, Schuerholz’s hand wouldn’t have been forced on that sell-low McBride trade. Just completely inexcusable. I’m officially disgusted.
Franco again at first base with a right-hander? Seriously what the hell?!
Are we sure Bobby is still alive? This is awful.
Glove man, I guess.
Damn Dats a lot of red on the mound
Time for a CS.
In any case, I’m really tired of our 3rd best hitter being platooned and batting 7th. It’s not like he’s a defensive liability.
If Escobar doesn’t get traded and it continues it will be completely inexplicable.
Holy crap, a homerun!
Wow miracles on Sunday
did you see how EFFORTLESS that hr by andruw was??
that’s all you gotta do andruw!!! fuck!!
I can’t understand DFA’ing Ledezma today. Even if he’s not in their plans, why wouldn’t they wait until Tuesday or Wednesday? If a trade goes down and they get another reliever, won’t they have to make another move now?
it looked like he was playing pepper with that pitch
pepper… anybody?
Chip Caray always looks for an excuse to talk about the other team. Fire him already tBS.
“If a trade goes down and they get another reliever, won’t they have to make another move now?”
I forgot about that. Maybe Ledezma was sent packing today to free a spot for a new relief pitcher (hopefully coming from the Rangers with Teixeira) coming via trade soon?
@94
Starting soon, Chip can talk about “other teams” all he wants. I assume he stays with TBS after they resign as a Braves flagship station.
Chip just sucks at his job, whatever it is. I’d be willing to bet he starts talking about nothing but the Braves once he has a neutral job.
Well KJ is 2 for his last 15 with 5 strikeouts…The last thing we need is for him to go into one of his slumps…
Led for McBride is one of the worst trades I can remember.
Yates looks gased…
Bobby’s bullpen management early on in the season has to be part of the blame for Yates and Soriano recent struggles.
Franco in the line-up everyday to me just can’t be received all that positive in the clubhouse….I know I personally this it’s ridiculous for him to be there everyday.
I’m personally shocked that Tony Escobar chose to lead his complaint list with something about KJ.
Oh my God, they’re going to show us live Alex Rodriguez at-bats.
Stu…
Give it a rest…I’m being serious, we cannot afford one of KJ’s slumps at this time. How is that a complaint when I’m stating a fact? Not on a Sunday Stu…please.
I remember when Carlos Zambrano threw his temper tandrum and I stated I love his fire and would have him on my team in a minute….Of course I was criticize, well he just won his 14th game today.
I’m being serious, too, Tony—you have no credibility.
And you don’t understand how stating a fact can be a complaint? Really?
Well at least Julio is appreciative of the fact that Bobby is making a retarded decision.
Tony,
Give it up we all know your opinion on KJ or Escobar cannot be taken seriously. You have no substance behind your opinion on those two players as you are clearly obsessed with Escobar!
Stu, this guy is a joke perhaps we should ignore?
Hey its a Sunday just chillax
14 wins or 24 wins, Big Z is a jerk. He would lose his mind in a big playoff moment.
Wow! That was cool.
Jake, I know you’re right. I need to just show some restraint. For some reason, I find it especially difficult with this one.
To let you guys know…at this point I am willing to trade Escobar to make this team better. I’m not obsessed with Escobar, never haven’t been…just never understood some of you hatred for Escobar.
I am a Braves fan first, and if trading Escobar means making this team better…then so be it.
Ok, Tony we believe you, you are not obsessed with Escobar! **Wink**
It’s Escobar’s teeth…he need an orthodontist like we need a first baseman.
Livan doesn’t know how to pitch to the Braves without Eric Gregg.
Okay lay off Tony. I believe Kelly Johnson is the superior player between the two, but nothing about Escobar’s play thus far is worthy of complaint.
I can confirm this is a Questec park – its the one where Curt Schilling busted a camera.
Moogination…
Why you cross the line talking about his teeth like that? That’s uncall for on this website.
Moogination that was below the belt, Tony it’s okay we all still like your idol!
If I ever meet Yunel, I’ll apologize in person.
Nobody complains about Yunel, Dan.
Eric Gregg…probably the worse called major league baseball ever. I will never forget the look on McGriff’s face when a pitch 10in off the place was called a strike…he had to be on the take.
We are talking about Escobar’s teeth… What’s wrong with Escobar’s teeth? Nice game so far btw
huddy’s unstoppable with this kind of a lead. but he has to be efficient enough with his pitches for bobby to let him go 9
Its only the 2nd inning
Moogination,
Seriously, I don’t mind the cracks from Stu and the gang…but to attack someone’s looks is below the belt and immature. The man was obviously poor as dirt in Cuba…
Through 2 innings, Hudson’s thrown 19 strikes and 4 balls.
Tony give it up he said he was sorry.
wait… so he was in cuba AND poor as dirt? … whoda thunkit
Man I like Eric Byrnes….wish we had someone like that…
it is only the 2nd inning… but isn’t hudson 38-1 (or something absurd like that) when he has a 3 run lead?
of course… he had a 3 run lead his last outing. but i don’t think we want to talk about that.
Sorry Tony, it really wasn’t meant to be anything personal – back to the game.
tony… i like byrnes as well. he always seems like he’s having fun. he’s never put full seasons together though (usually drops off big time in the 2nd half) — but i’m hoping he will this year for my fantasy team’s sake.
everybody’s hitting today.
i figured livan would be a good remedy (see post 31 — heh heh)
Murphy,
The way he plays, his body is probably shot by the time August comes along…but he is fun to watch.
Isnt Byrnes going to be a free agent after this season?? yeah he’s also cool on my fantasy Murphy nice show of power and speed.
tony, i could see that.
he’s probably going to walk this year (he’s asking more than arizona wants to pay him, and they have pretty good young outfielders)… but he’s not really a CF so i don’t figure he’d be a potential signee
i’m guessing we’ll have to get CF on the cheap for next year
YEah i wonder who were going to get when Andruw Leaves hmmm
julio!
just to clarify — “julio!” was my excitement over his hit, not a suggestion for filling in at CF 🙂
lol
Brandon Jones is a name some throw around but I don’t know much about him. For somebody who does: what’s the scoop? Is he getting close to ready for prime time?
I thought I read that Byrnes was willing to give a discount to stay in AZ.
If Jones isn’t traded he’ll probably be given every opportunity to win left field next year.
according to the player notes on espn.com:
Byrnes has said he will give the Diamondbacks a contract discount on what he could get on the open market, though it appears the team is not willing to approach even the low end of comparable contracts mentioned by Byrnes in recent days, reports the Arizona Republic.
Contract extension talks between Byrnes and the Diamondbacks have broken off, the Arizona Republic reports.
Spin: The Diamondbacks, with a payroll in the $65 million range, are wary of committing big dollars to any player, let alone someone (Byrnes) who plays a position (outfield) at which the Diamondbacks are stacked with internal options. “I don’t think a lot of teams on our payroll level have spent a lot on free-agent dollars and been successful,” Arizona general manager Josh Byrnes said. “So I think we’re careful about that. There are a lot of ways to build a team.” Sounds like Byrnes will be playing elsewhere in 2008.
so let’s speculate… who are the available CF free agents (even though that’s not the only route), regardless of price tag?
andruw
torii hunter
aaron rowand
coco crisp (i think… not sure though)
others?
Mike Cameron, who lives in Atl.
Byrnes and Cameron. Don’t think Crisp will be a FA.
More runs, please.
I’m sure that Hudson doesn’t yet believe this game is Wickman-proof.
Neither do I, ububba.
niether do i… so let him go all 9
cameron had slipped my mind. i had heard him suggested a couple of months ago.
great defense. terrible BA though (i don’t want to get used to that…)
apparently we’ve decided we can hit today.
actually, Edgar does that every day…
what an awful stat…
today is the first day since the 17th that chipper and andruw have RBI in the same game?!?!?! that’s ridiculous. way to rectify it today though
I’d think Cameron is the most likely candidate through free agency because he’s 35.
did andruw just walk to first base during the dp? the dbacks announcer said something like that.
Andruw should be f*cking benched for that horse sh!t.
It was a ground ball down the 3rd base line, with a solid (but not great) feed and turn and Andruw was barely halfway up the line. Very, very pathetic.
that’s why i’ve never been a big fan of his…
love him for his defense, can’t stand his lack of hustle
the announcers are going on and on about it.
the vets should ream him for it… oh wait, he’s one of the vets
The score is 8-0 right now. I’m not going to force Hudson to go 9, unless his pitch count is reasonable.
Here’s a fairly cogent call from the AJC’s Mark Bradley to get Teixiera.
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2007/07/29/saltyfortex_sim.html
Andruw does that all the time, hits .200, and gets to bat 4th every game.
McBride has control troubles and is shipped off for a scrub who has no options left.
I don’t like announcers that go on and on about hustle… but Mark Grace can in my book.
I’m pretty sure McBride must have punched someone’s baby or boinked someone’s wife or something.
way to not let that hanger get by frenchy
Frenchie is locked on today.
to go back to a previous topic…
i hope a reliever gets included in the deal as well. but can the braves afford gagne?
first off, i can’t believe he’s still healthy… no way he continues to be.
2nd — way to go KJ!
3rd — i think gagne’s contract is set up so that he basically has to close (all of his performance bonuses are tied to him closing games) … would bobby bump wickman? dunno would gagne set up? doubt it…
You know guys…you could space these runs out a bit better and then we wouldn’t need Tex…
just an interesting note that probably doesn’t pertain to us, but…
konerko sat out today
ububba, a couple things:
(1) Thanks for the link. Very well reasoned, that article.
(2) Re: Hudson’s innings today—the big lead, to me, means it’s an opportunity to REALLY rest the ‘pen. Barring some crazy-high pitch count, I’d make every effort to have Hudson go all 9.
Dodgers trail late. If these results remain the same, we should be 2.5 out of the Wild Card at the end of the day.
Huddy with 52 pitches through 4.
Anybody notice Huddy dropping down more than usual today?
Hopefully he’s just really confident and trying to give the hitters more angles…
Yunel destroyed that ball.
Way to hit that ball Tony, opps I mean Yunel
Just dropping in because they just played the commercial…
Dane Cook delenda est.
even thorman?!?!?!?
That’s at least a run in all seven innings thus far. How often do teams score in all nine?
Yep. The Braves are going to win today. When Scott Thorman homers these days, it’s an auto win.
Well, there you have it for the Braves. Never in their history.
Feast or famine offense, that’s what we are.
Tony, you must recognize that KJ is hitting in front of freakin’ Julio Franco(!) and the pitcher. Do you expect he’s getting many pitches to hit??!
KJ should go back to leadoff because he’s got a terrific on-base percentage (.386). His power is not wasted in the lead-off spot. If he doubles or triples, then we only need a single from Edgar, Chipper or Teixeira (ha!) to get a run.
On the other hand, Kelly needs McCann or Francouer to be on base to drive in a run with an extra-base hit. And to be driven in, he’d still have to rely upon Julio Franco or the pitcher.
I much prefer the odds of Kelly being driven in by the middle of the order over Kelly’s odds of driving someone in with questionable on-base percentage guys ahead of him and no protection behind him.
Move KJ back to lead-off!!! Now!
Okay, now it’s just getting silly.
What’s Hudson’s career record when given a 14 run lead?
1-0? 😉
Just imagine if this lineup were made possible by Schuerholz and then executed by Bobby:
KJ 2B
Edgar SS
Chipper 3B
Teix 1B
McCann C
Diaz LF
Francoeur RF
Andruw CF
Clearly, it would never happen, but it’s a fun dream.
Here’s my optimal Braves lineup.
The Ultimate Warrior CF
Macho Man 2B
Hulk Hogan 3B
Andre the Giant 1B
Road Warrior Animal LF
Road Warrior Hawk RF
Ricky Steamboat SS
Earthquake C
Mr Perfect P
Looks good.
As for Willie Harris, I am among his biggest fans on this site, but his best work for us this year came in the 2nd and 8th spot:
Batting 1st: .232 avg/.315 obp/.293 slg (82 ab)
Batting 2nd: .397 avg/.440 obp/.577 slg (78 ab)
Batting 8th: .375 avg/.400 obp/.417 slg (24 ab)
ab = number of at-bats
Basically, he has a good idea of what he is doing at the plate, but has not stood up well in the lead-off spot, whereas KJ thrived there.
Willie has shown that he can handle hitting low in the order and give us a potential spark to get back to the top of the order (and let KJ drive him in).
Simple as it can be put, you want your best hitters getting more at-bats. To do this, they need to be high in the order. KJ is 3rd on the team in OPS (behind Chipper and Edgar), so he is one of our very best hitters.
Move KJ back to lead-off and put Willie back in the 8th spot! Now!
Saltalamacchia watch:
Still not playing.
Where’s Jericho? Or are you snubbing him because you know he’s better than you?
He’s the Man of 1006 Moves (or whatever it was called [ARM BAR]) and this is my early-90’s/late-80’s Braves team. I think the late-90’s/early-00’s team featuring the Rock, Stone Cold, and Y2J would give them a run for their money.
I thought Kelly was too streaky for the leadoff spot?
Just came in. Didn’t realize it was football season already.
This Ledezma thing is really stupid. Even with a 14 run lead, I’m pretty peeved about it.
Rob,
Braves defense is keeping the Diamondbacks out of the endzone. 😛
And, of course, the inning I start watching is the one where we’re shut out.
No CG for Hudson. But that’s okay, he did a great job.
Same here, Rob. I’ll just stop watching.
I think the fact that this game is already in the bottom of the 8th and has been going on for around two hours and fifteen minutes shows just how good Hudson was today. Especially when you factor into it that we scored 14 runs.
Hope Willie’s OK.
I always get visions of Brian Asselstine when an OF tries to make a big play against the wall in a blowout game.
I refuse to believe we’re bad luck, Sam. 🙂
Yahoo is showing Ascanio pitched the 8th for the Braves. Did I miss when he called up or was he never sent down?
Replaced Ledezma today, Rob.
Sweet! Ledezma has been destroyed.
Who thinks the DFA-ing of Ledezma means we are close to pulling off the deal with Texas? Rumors said we’d possibly get a lefty reliever from them too, so maybe thats why they left Ledezma go today…
Whoops. Ron.
I have checked all of the baseball rules I can find, and apparantley, when you lose 1 run games in extra innings, and then win by 14 runs, your record is 1-2.
our second best starter just beat their worst starter; big whoop.
I had hoped to see Salty one last time in an Atlanta uniform, but I guess that’s not happening…
Sorry boys and girls, it is too late for us and Texy. We now have to climb past 4 teams, just to get to the wild-card. Not going to happen. This stretch of playing .500 against the dregs of the league just put a stake in us; we are done for post-season.
I still have hope. It’s slight…but hope all the same.
All but one position player has played…the one being Saltalmacchia. And Cox just used Peter Moylan as a pinch hitter with Saltalamacchia available. Hmm….
I was just disappointed that the Ledezma trade went for naught.
I have a fish named Julio Franco and I think he’s dying. I’m not sure what to make of it…
I have hope, too, Coz. I say Teix really gives us a spark. I just hope we’re able to add a couple pitchers, too.
Wickman?
I know it may sadden you bfan, but I don’t think the Braves are going to roll over and concede the season because of your Chicken Little attitude.
This season isn’t over because there are no genuinely good teams in the NL.
Thank goodness that road trip is over. They never seem to play well at either place. Doesn’t matter how good the respective teams are.
not chicken little; the sky is not falling, but we do have the 8th best record in the league today, and 4 make the play-offs. I do not want to sell off our future chasing a dream that looks too tough for this team to pull off.
But okay, if Andruw gets hot; and Wickman returns to form; and we find a 5th starter; and Smoltz continues to defy his age; and…
This team by itself cannot make the playoffs. With some changes, they could make it easily. We can make those changes.
Quick takes…
KJ is a 3, 5, or 6 hole hitter. He is not, IMO, a leadoff hitter. He is too streaky, but I believe he will be a good RBI man.
Hudson looks like his Oakland-self with that sinker.
Tex has to become a Brave now…or I fear a serious letdown in the clubhouse.
My apologies to Julio Franco…the man is tearing the cover off the ball.
Good hustle by Thorman…AJ sucks.
The Cubs made up 7 games on the Brewers in the last month. Are the Cubs great? Are the Mets/Dodgers/Diamondbacks/Padres any better than the Brewers?
There are two months left. There’s plenty of time to make up ground and get into the playoffs–with a cushion even. Jeez.
Julio can easily be a good pinch hitter, I believe.
Yea whomever said the season was over…is obviously not a baseball fan. Or have not watch the A’s and Astros perform their magic over the past few years.
Braves Journal Strikes Again!
Ledezma has been destroyed.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070729&content_id=2117121&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
I’d say Kelly would be good at 1, 2, 3, or 6.
And I agree that it would be a huge letdown for the team if they don’t actually add Teix. I think the chances of that happening are slim, though.
I think we get Tex also. And if we don’t, let down will ensue.
By the by – Huddy has his ERA down to 3.09 🙂
Funny about the Cubs…yes, they are pretty close to great. Their poor record the 1st third of the season was well below what their stats were showing at the time, and it was pretty clear that in looking closely, that is they just kept doing exactley what they were doing, they would get a lot better results, because bad luck on run distribution always evens out over 162 games (or gets close to evening out). Going into today, our runs scored-runs against were 492-478, about what you would expect for a team 3 over .500. We have not been unlucky or under-performing, we have earned a 3 over .500 record.
Our hopes TO GET BETTER (because that is what has to happen; we have to be better) rest on AJ getting hot; Chipper not getting hurt; Teix. coming on board; and Smoltz holding up. I would say we need 3 out of or maybe 4 out of 4, to improve enough. Okay, it can happen. It is a slim shot,though, and trading our 3 best prospects for a slim shot just doesn’t seem like a good bet to me.
Tony, seriously, back up the statement that Kelly Johnson is any more streaky than any other player in MLB. I double-dare you to try.
He goes from being outstanding to merely good though. I’ll give you that. Some of that has to do with the P-L-A-T-O-O-N though, I’d guess.
Just show me an abnormally long stretch of KJ failing. He’s not in one currently. He’s hitting .328 avg/.411 obp/.563 slg in July.
Double-dog dare you. 🙂
Failure can make anyone down in the dumps and pessimistic. God knows that it happened to me. But I refuse to believe that the season is over if changes are made.
KJ is 3rd in the NL in OPS among second basemen; same place that renteria is, among SS. Only Chipper (MVP of the league is 1st) and McCann (2nd among catchers-can you believe it?) are higher at their positions than KJ. Why would anyone knock KJ?
While I do not disagree with you on those 4 points, bfan, my hope rests comfortably with all four individuals being able to perform as their careers have suggested. If they do that, we can win and win easily. With Chipper being hurt this year and Andruw playing under expectations, we have room to improve in the second half. Tex can only make that run better. It will be close, but it is entirely possible and the chase should be fun if the team plays like they are certainly able to play.
bfan, I see your reasoning, but I do feel that those four things will happen, so I’m optimistic about our chances. We’ll even add a good relief pitcher.
I would share your pessimism for the team as currently constructed, though I wouldn’t totally give up just yet.
Last year was another story. That team stunk.
Cary,
Since KJ does not have speed…HE IS TOO STREAKY to bat leadoff. It’s not a secret why he is not batting leadoff anymore. Plus in this line-up his potential power output is better served in the RBI spots in the line-up. He is not a David Eckstein and he doesn’t have the speed of Harris. KJ will make his big league money driving in runs, not leading off games.
I was listening to 680 The Fan before the game, and they said something that I hadn’t heard before.
They were saying JS was working on getting both Tex and Kevin Millwood from the Rangers. I only had it on briefly and have no clue who it was spreading such rumors, but it seems unlikely to me seeing as they’re reluctant to give us just a reliever and Tex.
The person who leads off is the one who gets the most plate appearances. Therefore, you want someone there who doesn’t make a lot of outs.
Harris has been an out machine in July and in the leadoff spot.
Johnson has gotten on base nearly 40 percent of the time.
Speed was more important in an era when home runs weren’t as frequent.
But Willie Harris does have speed, and he is too streaky too. Plus he hasn’t been doing too hot in that stolen base department.
And by the way, the A’s yes, but the Astros?
Check out this line:
211.1 151 51 44 62 185 13 8 0 0 1.87
Those are the stats of a guy on the Astros who doesn’t show up for the first part of the season, and then provides a mid-season pick-me-up. I would say their situation of enhancing their second 2/3rds of the season are pretyy unique. Tell me we have an uninjured Jake Peavy for the rest of the season, and lose nothing in return, and yes, I like our chances a lot.
bfan,
The fact remains….they came from behind to do it. And I believed he pitched every 4 or 5 days.
But the fact remains, Roger Clemens (or his 2000-2006 equivalent) isn’t coming down our chimney.
And on that subject, how about keeping Smoltzy after this year on a Clemens schedule-let him start pitching in June, so he gets 150-160 innings and can stay fresh, that way?
New thread, fellas. If you care.