212 thoughts on “Game Thread: June 16, Braves at Indians”

  1. Carlyle has earned a spot in this rotation, if you ask me. If we could somehow find a #3, and if Smoltz gets/stays healthy, a rotation of Smoltz/Hudson/#3/James/Carlyle would be just fine with me.

    I love Escobar, by the way. He’s better—at least offensively—than I’d realized.

  2. Stu, I just said the same thing about Carlyle on the other thread. I hoep he stays around over Davies if we get another starter. Hopefully, Smoltz wont have any lingering issues out there today and we cant get another good outing out of our starters. Hudson and Carlyle did their job. Even though Wick blew the save Thursday, I think everyone here wouldve been satisfied splitting the games between Santana and Sabathia. Good job last night

  3. I cannot imagine that whenever Renteria’s contract is up, Escobar will be the shortstop. Not with Lillibridge and Andrus.

  4. Escobar isn’t that great defensively. He has a cannon for an arm but he has made his fair share of errors. If we have to trade Salty for SP maybe he could play 1st???

  5. I knew Woodward was going to have a huge game! 1RBI is huge for him,right?

    I predict a pitching duel today…

  6. Excobar doesn’t have a bad defensive rep that I know of, so I’m willing to chalk up the recent spate of errors as a fluke thing for now. Batting-wise, all I can say is it’s nice to have Betemit back.

  7. I dont’ really think pitching dual. I think we can handle Paul Byrd today. I’d suspect that Thorman will be in due to the facts he’s a righty…

  8. I don’t think Escobar’s defense will be a problem. As sansho said, he didn’t have a bad defensive rep, so I chalk it up to being called-up to a new level and playing mostly out of position. It’s probably tough for him to get going. Plus, as far as that throw in the ninth inning two nights ago goes, that should have been caught by McCann. It wasn’t a perfect throw, but that wasn’t Escobar’s error; McCann’s gotta make that catch.

  9. I also don’t fault Escobar playing off the line in the ninth that game too. He’s not a third baseman, and it’s the dugout’s job to take care of defensive positioning.

  10. Going back a few threads, I think that last night’s game furnished us with grounds for optimism. Buddy Carlyle has demonstrated that at least for the short term he can be a credible number 5. Not to take away from anybody else (Salty, Diaz, Wickman, etc.), but Carlyle made that win possible by keeping the Braves in the game. A small thing seemingly–but well beyond Redman, Cormier, Lerew (for the most part) and often Davies.

    We have only just solidified our starting pitchers (obviously it would be nice to get another starter), missed Chipper, lost Hampton and Gonzo and we are still in the thick of it. Things could be so much worse….

  11. One of my biggest concerns is McCann’s defense. Its almost becoming a liability. He’s trying to backhand to many balls in the dirt and he has dropped a few throws that he should have caught. He needs to get better back there, it may be because he’s not healthy. I have doubts however

  12. Bobby Cox said he wasn’t going to do a first base platoon. If Thorman is in there, I guess that means he lied?

    When is Chipper going to play third again? That DH rule is nothing but a crutch. It needs to go.

  13. I agree about Carlyle. And I like Stu’s projected post-trade rotation.

    Is Davies’ lack of development an indictment of McDowell? Or is he just a late bloomer? Or a rockhead? How do you evaluate the merits of a pitching coach?

  14. My tv listing on digital cable says the SF vs. Boston game will be on at 3:55 pm. Everywhere else I’ve looked has both games listed at the same time and both on FOX. How is this possible?

  15. Dan, Cox never said that he wasn’t going to do a platoon but he never said he was going to do one either. I’d be very suprised if Thorman wasn’t in there today. Keep in mind tomorrow is a 1 o’clock game and Salty will catch tomorrow…

  16. csg, McCann’s ankle is an annoyance behind the plate. It is not affecting his swing anymore but it does bother him defensively.

  17. K. Johnson 2B
    W. Harris LF
    E. Renteria SS
    C. Jones DH
    A. Jones CF
    B. McCann C
    J. Francoeur RF
    S. Thorman 1B
    Y. Escobar 3B

  18. Fisticuffs between the Cubs and the Padres. Shockingly, David Wells was upset when Soriano showed him up on a home run yesterday. Today, Chris Young hit Derek Lee. They started swinging at each other. Good times.

  19. Another reason for encouragement: with yesterday’s win, we’ve matched our win total from all of last June with 6.

    Go Braves.

  20. Perhaps Soriano will learn to stop showing pitchers up. This seems to be becoming a trend. I like it.

  21. I’m normally against the unwritten rule of beaning hitters, but I would put a baseball into Soriano’s ear-hole ever chance I had if I was a pitcher.

  22. Im also not an advocate of throwing at hitters, unless they are just asking for it, as Soriano appears to do. If a guy beats you, then so be it, you need to do better. However, if someone beats you, and then shows you up, they deserve to get drilled.

  23. I’m not watching, but listening to teh game. Did Byrd K Andruw and Francouer with junk breaking stuff of the plate?

    They are both really easy to pitch to of late, especially AJ. I notice dthe other day he ws missing/popping up hittable fastballs in teh MN series. I still think his mechanics are a mess.

  24. What does that make McCann, Jeremy? He’s hitting .230 since coming off the disabled list.

  25. then he should be on the disabled list. He’s not helping the team with his average defense and his .230 hitting.

  26. Anybody having trouble accessing MLBTV? These damn Fox games black out people even outside of the area.

  27. Rob, yup. It’s pissing me off. Why am I paying for games that I can’t watch?

  28. I upgraded to MLB Premium and the connection flickers more. Anyone have THAT problem too?

  29. He’s staying in though, fouled the first pitch off his right knee. It looks to be still bothering him.

  30. Both MLBTV and Extra Innings black out the Saturday Fox games. Doesn’t matter where you live.

    MLB really cares about their fans, don’t they?

  31. Oh well, I like hearing it on the radio sometimes. It’s sorta old fashioned…even if its on my iMac.

  32. The rare terrible AB from Chipper.

    We’ve got the professional terrible AB’er coming up now.

  33. Damn it Andruw!!! At least we’re running Byrd’s pitch count up, and with the way Smoltz is throwing today, we might have enough.

  34. Do you guys remember when Andruw Jones was good at baseball? It seems so long ago. I say we offer 5 years/$10 million.

  35. Boy Andruw sucks so bad I say bench him! At least for a day so he has time to think about his approach.

  36. wow Andruw… way to earn yourself that 6 year $100M contract that Boras is trying to get you

  37. I jsut saw the Cubs – Pads fight. It was funny seeing 5’8″ Giles running between Young who is 6′ 10″ and Lee who’s like 6’7″.

    The Cubs should jsut take the filed with boxing gloves instead of baseball gloves.

    Oh yeah, Alfonso Soriano is a jerk.

  38. I love John Smoltz, but he always throws one too many sidearm pitches.

    Shoulda went over the top.

  39. He used to do it every once in a while in the late 90’s, seemed he’d throw a couple, then the next one was always hit.

    Nice start McCann!

  40. Byrd is definitely hittable, time for another rally. Young should have hit Soriano, not lee. I like it though

  41. see Andruw thats what you do, its called make contact. Thanks for the error by the way

  42. Hey guys, we should be careful. Scott Boras might come onto Braves Journal and LIE to us to death.

  43. should be below the Mendoza by the break. I wouldnt give this man $10mil per year right now

  44. csg…if he keeps this up, not even the Yankees or Red Sox would even be dumb enough to give this hack $10 mill.

  45. There is one reason to dive into first (to avoid a tag) but I doubt that’s what Willie was doing?

  46. Assuming Andruw continues to falter throughout the year, EVEN if we can get him cheap, do we sign him?

  47. I’m starting to think he’s past his prime (as opposed to just a bad season). He used to look so graceful offensively and defensively. Now everything looks abrupt and painful.

  48. I blame Pendleton. The inconsistency of almost our entire lineup has got to be blamed on someone.

  49. Mac…start a separate Golf thread if you feel the need to talk about it. But if a Golf discussion breaks out in here, I won’t stick around for that. I am here, happily to talk Braves/Indians.

    As for Druw, not worth the $ and Pendleton should not be hitting coach in 2008.

  50. We keep hearing about Pendleton working with Andruw, but fair enough, Stu.

    No, we keep hearing how frustrated Pendleton is that Andruw won’t listen to anything he tells him. Pendleton may not be a very good hitting coach (I tend to think of him as mediocre—nothing special, but nothing detrimental), but the Andruw debacle is on Andruw.

    And I love Tiger Woods. One of my all-time favorite sports figures. Kinda for the same reason I loved A-Rod before discovering that he’s a bit of a butt-munch—I just enjoy watching people utterly dominate their competition. I admire the transcendental athlete.

  51. Mac,

    This is your fault. I now see more threads about Golf and it’s my least favorite thing–ever. I hate Golf. I am on BravesJournal to talk Braves. I don’t care about Tiger Woods or anyone who plays Golf. I respect that other people may like it, but to me, it’s like watching paint dry. It’s awful.

    Mac, start a separate thread…PLEASE.

  52. Also, Smoltz is quite obviously hurt. Lots of grimacing, lots of dropping the arm slot. Consider me very concerned about the rest of his season.

  53. csg- I had a feeling that had to do with Golf. (I was hoping I was wrong).Please focus on the Braves game.

    I am asking nicely.

  54. Besides focusing on Braves discussion, we should focus on the fact that we are hopefully getting into position to actually win a road series from a good team for the first time since the last Mets series.

  55. Alex,

    Relax. Just scroll down, right on past, like I do when people talk about Virginia Tech or Auburn or Alabama.

  56. I’ll repeat my previous question: On the basis of what information can I judge the performance of a position coach? Is Davies’ career stall on McDowell, or Davies? If Andruw Jones’ hackathon is on Pendleton, isn’t Kelly Johnson’s plate discipline then to TP’s credit?

  57. Smoltz you’re the man, 3 straight good starts. I think the last two against this offense are incredible, Davies better keep it going tomorrow

  58. Golf is off limits? That’s ridiculous. This isn’t like politics or religion, subjects people frequently don’t talk about in polite company.

    How is golf any different than Alex bringing up HIS SPURS or HIS DAWGS when those topics are relevant?

    They’re your rules, Mac, and I’ll abide by them, but I want to point out how absurd it is.

  59. Stu,

    Mac has offered up the previous thread. That’s where to discuss your little white ball sport.

    Also, Smoltz has been this team’s real MVP for how many years now?

  60. I blame Andruw for Andruw, I blame Davies for Davies. This is their profession and they suck at it right now, only themselves to blame. I think Smoltz is done for the day and hopefully that shoulder will feel good tomorrow

  61. guys relax, the Mets lost and we have a real good chance to hold on and win this one. All is good, except for Andruw

  62. Stu-

    I make one comment about my Spurs or Dawgs when I talk about them and that’s it. I am talking about a continuing thread of back n forth on Golf.

    Fine Stu, I thought we were getting along, Mac has offered a separate thread, but go ahead and talk about Golf. I won’t be back until the damn US Open is over then.

  63. Chuck G,

    I wish I could answer. My vote went to Snitker because I can point to instances where he didn’t do his job well. I’m not saying our coaches aren’t bad, but I honestly don’t kow how to attribute anything, good or bad, to them.

  64. I don’t get the point of having a hitting coach. It seems like a waste of resources in this medium-sized white ball sport.

  65. david15,

    We could have another Woodward or Sturtze if we didn’t have to pay Pendleton.

  66. I know this may sound bad, but I’m almost pulling for Andruw to strike out again. He needs to move from this 4 hole again

  67. unbelievable, value and avg keep falling and falling. Can Andruw’s salary actually go down from year to year. I thought the players union wouldnt allow it

  68. I don’t know how much affect a hitting coach can have on a professional athlete. I think a good hitting coach should know the mechanics of the swing. I don’t think they can entirely change a hitters’ approach at the plate. Look at Andruw — he has gone through a plethora of highly regarded hitting coaches over his career, and he still will not lay off/not try to pull low and away pitches.

  69. You’re right, Stu. Or the megascreen could have had a few extra square feet added. Either way the Braves would be getting more bang for the buck.

  70. he should be hitting after McCann or Salty. McCann’s ugliest swing is better than Andruw’s moronic hacking.

  71. how is Beltran leading the OF All star votes

    Nl – Soriano, Beltran, Griffey, Jones
    AL – Ramirez, Ordonez, Suzuki, Guerrero

    which team would you rather have?

    Nice job Yates

  72. Andruw making the all-star team will just fuel Jayson Stark to reiterate his comments.

  73. I’m not watching the game, so what’s the plan for the last two innings? Surely Wickman’s arm will fall off if we run him out there again. We miss Gonzalez on a day like today…

  74. Funny, how quickly fortunes can turn in this goofy NL East.

    I can’t watch the game (I’m listening to WGST on MLB.com—I’m getting Bonds vs Bosox, of course), so I can’t see Smoltz, but I hope he’s OK. If he came out after 6 IP & 86 pitches, he’s probably not very close to 100%. Fingers crossed there.

    And all I can say about Andruw anymore is: let him catch the ball in CF, drop him to 6th in the lineup & hope he approaches his lifetime numbers the rest of the season. He’s in the twilight zone.

    FWIW, Bonds just got chopped up by Okajima.

  75. What’s the official stance on Bonds here? I’ve never heard him discussed with this crowd.

  76. Rob,

    I can’t imagine anyone here in BravesJournal is rooting for Bonds to break Aaron’s record. I hope Bonds goes on the DL the rest of the year.

  77. And forget about Aaron being a Brave, he’s a guy who did things the right way and wasn’t a loathsome human like Bonds.

  78. I lived in CA until recently so the stance on Bonds was always a point of contention.

  79. I try to do to Bonds and all the surrounding hype the same thing I’ll be doing to whatever career numbers he ends up with—ignore.

  80. Maybe in Northern California, but in Southerna Calif., he’s about as popular as he is anywhere else.

    There’s also of course the racial division on Bonds, but that shouldn’t be an issue…I would hate Bonds and like Aaron no matter what their backgrounds were.

  81. It’s really interesting to see how amped everyone was with Maguire and Sosa going for 61 and how uninterested everyone (except ESPN and apparently FOX) is about Bonds.

  82. Agreed Alex. The race argument for Bonds is really absurd when you look at who he’s about to pass. It demeans the struggles Aaron went through when he was close to passing Ruth.

  83. I’d rather have Edgar rest. The All-Star game becomes less and less appealing to me every year.

  84. sorry…

    I meant to say cuz he’s not “THE MOST EXCITING PLAYER IN THE MLB OMG!!!”

  85. Reyes is as exciting to me as watching paperwork get filed.

    I’d rather be in the tax office than watch any Met play.

  86. I disagree, David. Reyes is a lot of fun to watch on the bases (against other teams of course). I don’t think we have anyone capable of stealing third like he can.

  87. Last time I checked, the fans voted for the all-star team & the vast majority of them don’t live in New York.

    And, as much as I detest the Mets, I gotta say that Reyes is having a terrific season.

  88. Yeah, Reyes is just as deserving as Edgar. It’s a wash offensively. It’s not a wash defensively.

  89. Ballgame! That whole Andruw situation still ruined my day, however. If we could only get him back on track.

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