MLB – Atlanta Braves/Washington Nationals Box Score Wednesday May 16, 2007 – Yahoo! Sports
This is a game you have to win. Holding a 4-1 lead, 4-2 entering the fifth, against the freaking Nationals. Kyle Davies had mostly been victimized by Ryan Zimmerman, who had both the Nots’ RBIs. But with one out in the fifth, he allows a cheap little hit to Langerhans (who now has, I think, as many hits against the Braves this year as for them) and walks the punch-and-judy Rule 5 guy they have pinch-hit.
Now he gets an apparent double play, one you have to get one on, but KJ drops the ball and the bases are loaded. At this point, you have to make sure your bullpen gets ready fast because Zimmerman is lurking. Davies gets another ground ball, but they can’t turn the DP, a run scores. And Bobby lets him face Zimmerman, the guy who is 2-2 with a homer against him. Predictably, Zimmerman walks, then Ryan Church, the Nationals’ only other good hitter, cleans up with a three-run double, and then Bobby makes the move. KJ got a lot of blame, but Davies and Bobby were the real culprits. It’s ridiculous that none of the four runs he allowed in the fifth inning — an inning in which he allowed two hits, including a double, and two walks — were “earned” and his ERA actually goes down.
The Braves had taken a 2-0 lead with a single by Andruw scoring Renteria and Chipper (back in the lineup, doubling his first try) in the first. They got two in the fourth, but didn’t get the third because Davies couldn’t get a bunt down and Harris couldn’t score from first on an iffy error by our old pal Robert Fick. And after the Nots took the lead, the Braves sat on their hands the rest of the night, getting only two hits and seeing the last nine men in a row make outs. They’ll try to salvage the split tomorrow, but this game hurts.
CORRECTED because I had a brain meltdown there. Also, the Braves got 3 1/3 of good relief from Paronto, Villarreal, and the returning Wickman, which makes the decision to stick with Davies look even worse.
Mac, it was Church who cleared the bases…which is even worse…
You’re right, of course. I’ll fix it, but this game made me angry, because I saw it coming and can’t believe Bobby didn’t.
As usual, Bobby kept the starter in for one or two batters too long.
Anybody else getting the feeling that Davies isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed. He’s like the Francoeur of the pitching staff.
I didn’t catch the middle innings, but I can tell there is enough blame to go around. Hate to see us lose another one to the Nats.
Also, I know Davies is still considered a young pitcher, but he lacks the poise he needs to succeed at this level. I don’t know how many more turns he should get.
I think he is a fine fifth starter for this season, but the team happens to have two of them right now with Lerew also in the rotation.
I am not blaming Kyle as much as KJ’s error and Bobby’s failure of pulling Kyle sooner.
Back to Andruw in response to Mac’s surliness and comment:
(from the last thread)
Well, the difference is, Davies isn’t that good and we don’t expect much.
But we do expect Andruw and his pig agent Boras to come sniffing our the Braves for $20 mill. a year while he scuffles with his smirk and pot belly and fleet of 8o sports cars whiole hitting .230?
No thanks.
Mac, why is it “ridiculous” that baseball has unearned runs? Kyle pitched well enough to be out of the inning. He wouldn’t have allowed the bases-clearing double if he defense could have made an easy play. It’s not “ridiculous” that he’s not punished for his defense’s mistakes.
Well, Alex, that’s for next year. Andruw will not get $20M if he keeps hitting at below .250.
It’s ridiculous because you’re putting all the blame on one event and ignoring the four events (the single, double, and two walks) without which the error is meaningless. (I’ll ignore that you can’t assume a double play.)
Oh, and apparently I’m “surly” for pointing out that Andruw had the best game of any of the Braves hitters tonight, or at worst second-best to Thorman.
Andruw can take his $ from the Red Sox or Yankees next year for all I care. I am done with him. We can get Coco Crisp for less then half the $ and the same production and defense at this point.
And I just bet Coco or whomever wouldn’t flaunt his fleet of 80 sports cars to the AJC during spring training, while also asking the Braves for max money…and then the cherry on the Sunday is his continued half ass play, pot belly, and .230 average.
Give me ballplayers like Chipper, KJ and McCann any day. Andruw can take his pot belly somewhere else.
Errors happen. Good pitchers pick up their guys. Instead Davies walks Zimmerman and inexplicably puts a 1-2 curveball on a tee for Church. Just awful.
Mac,
ONE GOOD GAME, does not forgive the pile of crap I just pointed out.
You will not get me to lay off pot belly Jones untiol I see his average above .300 and in the top ten in homers & Ribbies.
Bad loss tonight. Bad, bad loss.
Well, there are different ways of looking at the same thing. The word “error” means the event should not have happened, which means the inning should have been over after Belliard’s ground out. All the events after that ground out should not have happened.
Personally, I don’t have an issue toward unearned runs. The single, double, and two walks do count against Kyle, just not the runs.
Geez guys, a normal second baseman should have made that play too.
Worst loss of the season, even worse than the Hudson game against the Marlins. You HAVE to win a game the Nationals are practically conceding.
The Phillies, 8.0 games back just four days ago, are going to be only 5.0 back after tonight. The Marlins won too. The Mets are in a rain delay in the first, don’t know if they’re ever playing. Every NL East team but the Braves doesn’t lose tonight it appears.
Some sportswriter on the Braves pregame show says he expects Liberty Media to raise the payroll to 95 million. If true, and with Andruw gome, I really think the Braves could get in on Carlos Zambrano if the Cubs don’t extend him. I’d rather him be signed than Andruw Jones.
Alex, I don’t think we will see Andruw hitting above .300 ever again. I think your last two goals are still achievable though.
kc,
For the ridiculous money his jerk agent Boras wants, he should be in the top 4, not even just the top ten.
He won’t be in either.
“Oh, and apparently I’m “surly” for pointing out that Andruw had the best game of any of the Braves hitters tonight, or at worst second-best to Thorman.”
Everything is Andruw’s fault. You even had a song about it, if I remember correctly.
Well, looking at the other side, one can only blame the owners for being so stupid for falling into Boras’s trap. It takes two sides to agree on an agreement!
Baseball would be a much better sport overall had there never been a Scott Boras or a Bud Selig.
If you are holding your breath for Andruw to hit .300 you will die. Just so you know ahead of time.
He is a life time, what, .265, hitter?
A team will pay him. They always do. If not for the “contract season” then for the “comeback season.” Everyone should accept that Andruw being a Brave next year is probably 20/80.
It’s not just Boras, either. Any agent with common sense will break it down to say: Here is how much you are worth on the open market, and here is how much you are worth with the Braves.
If he has the Furcal mentality, he’s bouncing. I think a lot of it will be based on what kind of season the Braves have and what teams want him since he can dictate the trade as a 10/5 player.
Oh, and the Nationals are the worse “professional” baseball team I’ve ever seen and I’m humiliated to be a Braves fan right now. They’ve lost three of the last four to the Nationals and Pirates, with Boston and the Mets around the corner.
At least Wicky threw well.
If I were GM, I’d make the Braves a Boras free team. I would sign no Boras clients, draft no Boras clients (like the Mets did for a while), trade for no Boras clients and maybe even trade a Boras client on the team away. If possible (and I doubt it), I’d put a clause in all the contracts of the free agents signed dictating that they can not become Boras clients while the contract is in effect.
Down with Scott Boras.
You are declaring a Boras-free zone.
I may declare a Boras-free zone. And since it was brought up:
(Pace the Stonecutter’s Song)
Who controls Bobby Cox’s brain?
Who makes Alex go insane?
Andruw! Andruw!
Who makes Furcal play like crap?
Who gives him beer straight from the tap?
Andruw! Andruw!
Who makes Kolb throw bases on balls?
Who makes umpires miss all these calls?
Andruw! Andruw!
Who makes Schuerholz make bad deals?
Who causes pain to Chipper’s wheels?
Andruw! Andruw!
Dan…amen. Preach on, my brother!
And don’t forget…immediately after error, Edgar got the fielders choice for the SECOND OUT, which would have been the THIRD had KJ gotten at least one. There would have been no bases loaded double had KJ taken care of business.
errors will happen. But the important factor is WHEN they happen.
I do agree though, that errors do take away from boneheaded mistakes that pitchers make
Damn, this game was a bad loss.
Mac, just close the comments off, delete your write-up, and let’s all take an oath to never mention this game ever again.
As far as I’m concerned it never happened.
Ah yes…our first incredibly pissed board of the year. Everyone lashing out at one another and making illogical statements.
First, will somebody please explain to me what everyone finds so damn great about Carlos Zambrano? Apparently I am the only person on this Earth who doesn’t think he’s the greatest pitcher who ever lived. We are talking about the same guy, right? The batshit insane guy who goes completely out of his mind and starts throwing laser-straight fastballs right down the middle as hard as he can if one bad thing happens to him? The guy who throws at people’s heads if he gets homered off of? One of the most unstable people in baseball?
Now look, I’m not naive enough to think we couldn’t use him. He has incredible stuff, and in the games where absolutely nothing pisses him off, he can be incredible. My point is, though, that a)while he’s better than our current third starter, he’s by no means a savior; and b)he won’t be close to worth what he gets paid. If the question is would I rather sign him or Andruw, the answer is Andruw because he plays everyday (unless we also get a decent major-league CF, then maybe we can talk).
I’m not exactly sure in what way this loss is worse than the Hudson Marlins loss. There we have a game in which our ace is mowing people down left and right and all of a sudden, in the ninth inning, everything falls apart.
Here we have a game where our fourth starter is up two runs in the fifth. Should we have won the game? Yes, but it’s not like the Nationals coming back was an incredibly miraculous turn of events. We were generally playing pretty crappily and kind of deserved it anyway. Sure it was annoying, but in my opinion, not nearly as devastating.
If I may present an analogy, losing the Florida game was like having your $100,000 sports car destroyed by a falling tree in the middle of the night. Losing this game was like wrecking said car because you were driving like a moron. You were driving it like a moron, so what the hell did you expect?
Finally, I’m not sure one way or the other on the earned run rule. I can see both sides. But the fact remains that the inning should have been over. Kelly’s a professional baseball player, too.
And if your aunt had a package she’d be your uncle.
This (big money baseball) is the world we live in. It’s kind of tilting at windmills to rail against it at this point.
Tomorrow is another day. The sun will shine and we will win again.
Earned runs are meant to protect pitchers from getting fleeced by his own team. When a Braves pitcher wins the ERA title because they didn’t count his unearned runs, your attitude towards unearned runs will change.
Boras is just good at what he does. And because of that, I hope he chokes on a ham sandwich.
Rob, I’ve been complaining about this for years, I didn’t just start now.
Like Mama Cass?
Oh, I know Mac. That’s why I tried my best to refrain from commenting because you’ve been about this for years and there’s probably no changing your mind. I failed.
“And if your aunt had a package she’d be your uncle.”
There is something immaturely hilarious about that line. Maybe it’s the thought of my aunt with a package…
Anyway, go Braves.
Does anyone here really believe that baseball’s salary structure would be different in any meaningful way if Scott Boras had never existed? The sport generates millions of dollars that are (in my view) due in large part to the players efforts. Why shouldn’t they be paid accordingly? Ticket prices are NOT function of salaries, they are a function of what you are willing to pay for one.
Haha, yeah, Kyle. I was channeling Austin Powers when I said that.
“Jimi Hendrix deceased, drugs. Janis Joplin deceased, alcohol. Mama Cass deceased, ham sandwich.” –Courtesy of IMDB.com
Sorry, probably last post of the night, but I just realized I think I’ve been reading this website for 5 years. Could that be right Mac? When did you get to where it was bravesjournal.us and not a division of another site or something?
I don’t know when I bought the bravesjournal.us domain. I started in April of 1998, but it was at least a couple of years after that. It was on Compuserve’s ourworld site, when I was using Compuserve, until April 2002. I was on Blogger for awhile, moved it to Movable Type and its own server October of that year. I moved to Bravesbeat/Braves.net for a long time, of course.
Wow, 9 years plus!?!? That’s pretty gosh dang impressive. I mean, that’s Methuselah in blog years. Is there another blogger (not just sports bloggers) that has been around longer? And silly me still feels like it is only just getting cranked up around here. :o)
And yah Rob, there’s something really immaturely hilarious about folks who wish for things that are long gone, “the good old days” syndrome, if you will.
If, if, if…
Bah.
I don’t know that the words “blog” and “blogging” existed yet, though that’s what I was doing. There are some recognizable blogs that were around earlier, I think.
I guessed Glenn Reynolds was around then, and I was wrong. Drudge, maybe? A cursory glance suggests most “blog” stuff didn’t get going until mid-’99.
Anyway, what an awesome acheivement.
Go Braves!
I’m glad I slept through the last half of this game.
We can’t afford to lose many games like this against teams like the Pirates and the Nots. You can’t win them ALL but man, sometimes there’s just no excuse. I mean if we can keep winning against the Mets, Phailies, and Marlins, you can get away with dripping a few but come on, don’t make a habit out of it. The Mets are too good a team to be giving them a lead by losing games to teams going nowhere.
I remember somewhat fondly about 4 or 5 years in a row (actually more than that) when I just sucked up losses like this because in my mind, it was inevitable that we’d win the division anyway. But those days are over, I’m afraid. We’ll play better, oh yeah, but how much worse can it get before we turn it around?
Don’t mean to be a downer, but this just sucks.
Dustin,
It’s a couple of games. It’s a 162 game season. Chill out. First, the Nats are NOT the worst team ever–they certainly are not the 2003 Tigers. Second, almost every good team has a bad team they have trouble with–and right now, for the Braves, it’s the Nats. It used to be the Marlins. I remember in the late 70s when the Dodgers were dominant, there were a couple of years when the Braves kicked their asses (and those Braves were worse than the Nats). It’s just part of baseball. It’ s not like football where you can go into a game and dominate; in a game or given series of baseball games, too many random things can happen. That’s why it is always scary for a good team to play a bad team. You just can’t fixate over each game in a 162 game season–there will be games you win that you should have lost and games you lose that you should have won. Have you ever seen a team go 19-0 against another team?
And, to me, the problem with the game last night was really the bats. This team seems completely freaked out by RFK Stadium. Davies was pitching very well until suddenly he lost his control. But you can’t start taking starters out in the middle innings of games in May when their pitch count is low–you will ruin the bullpen. Davies made one bad pitch, really, and had bad luck with the error. But the Braves had five inning to get the runs back and got nothing. I find that much more disturbing than anything Davies or Johnson did. And you can’t tell me that swinging so hard that you go down to one knee as Andruw does is good batting technique. No, I’m not “blaming” him for the loss, but as Dave O’Brian pointed out, since last August, Andruw has hit below .230.