Our new first baseman, it appears, keeping the Braves at their two-Canadian quota with the departure of Reitsma. That’s the new Braves for you, they only draft southerners and Canadians. Thorman was the Braves’ first-rounder in 2000, out of an Ontario high school. After missing the 2001 season, he rose slowly but steadily through the ranks.
Like his predecessor Adam LaRoche, Thorman had problems adjusting to new levels but hit well in his second go-around. He was terrible in Myrtle Beach in 2003, but hit well there in 2004, earning a promotion to Greenville. He struggled there, but was great when the franchise moved to Mississippi the next year, earning a promotion to Richmond. He didn’t do too well there, but came around in 2006, and earned a promotion to Atlanta, where he hit .234/.263/.438. Hopefully, the pattern will hold. His overall minor league numbers (.276/.342/.452) are just a shade below LaRoche’s, a little less batting average, a little more power. His average and walks are pretty steady against lefthanders, but he’s hit for a lot less power against them. Still, there is no apparent platoon partner. [The former was written before the Wilson signing. — MT]
Thorman started out a third baseman, but that didn’t last long. Since he was a third baseman, he is of course a righthanded thrower. That isn’t ideal at first base, but he probably has a pretty good arm and okay range. He’s a lot faster than LaRoche, and his one major league stolen base is one more than LaRoche has. I am cautiously optimistic.
I’m not sure what you mean by, “there is no apparent platoon partner.” As in, not Craig Wilson?
Also, Jamie Romak is Canadian.
Maybe we can get Larry Walker to come coach first base
He had already written this up before the Wilson signing yesterday, I imagine.
I will say I enjoyed seeing LaRoche’s smooth swing. When I see a guy swing as hard as Thorman, I think Ryan Klesko and that does not please me. But I guess, in retrospect, ifhe puts up Klesko numbers, that would be fine (and I guess we don’t have to worry about him against lefties for this year at least).
According to Stu’s calculations (our resident economist 🙂 ) we have a little breathing room in our 80 mil budget. I get the feeling like JS has the train rolling now on some plans he’s been working on all winter. I just hope that the last move on his list has been making that Baldelli or Rios trade. I’d love to see another yound SP to compete but I think one of those may be harder to come by than Baldelli or Rios. Even if nothing else happens, I feel a ton better about our prospects for the upcoming season. There is a great chance that we will be in the mix this season for the playoffs and everybody knows that once you are there it is just a crap shoot anyway.
RE: Lillibridge
I think the best thing for us to do with him is to send him to AA. We have enought players to fill 2B and SS in 07. I would rather see him work hard at AA and compete for a spot in 08.
In my opinion, we’re a Baldelli or Rios away (combined with a relatively healthy season for the team) from being the favorites in the NL. I’m biased, of course.
New Article on Andruw
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070118&content_id=1781887&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
I love Andruw and appreciate his apparently sincere desire to stay with the Braves…but, barring a substantial budget increase, I would be very uncomfortable with giving him an 8-year contract.
I would be uncomfortable with a 6yr deal, maybe 4. Lets face it we dont need to be paying someone $15 mil to play LF and hit .265-.275. I love his desire and his abilities, but its prob. best that he moves on and we get something in return for him
Agreed Stu. That article keeps mentioning eight years, that is a gigantic risk. I want to believe Andruw Jones, but everyone says that. When the Dodgers do to him what they did to Furcal, meaning give much more money over a shorter period of time, it’s hard to think he’ll say no. Maybe I’m wrong. I don’t want the Braves to give him so much they can’t afford to bring back Smoltz for his final two or three years too.
Will Bobby Cox really manage another eight years like Jones said? If Jones signs with the Braves again mostly because of Bobby Cox and Georgia in general, he might be in for a disappointment.
I also dont see Andruw staying for a 8yr/112 when he could get a 8yr/160 deal elsewhere
The article mentions 8/126…there are teams out there who I suspect would be willing to offer 6/126.
I agree Thorman appears to be quite a bit on the same track as LaRoche was. He’s not far enough along to hope for the 2006 Adam; it’s just a question to me will we get the 2004 Adam or the 2005 Adam?
I’ve always like Craig Wilson for some reason. I had in my mind he was in his mid 30’s, now I see he’s younger than that. This could make an OK combination. We have a lot of comparative offensive advantages at C, SS, 3B and CF that most teams don’t.
I would think there is some bargaining room as far as year go. I’d be comfortable with a 5-6 yr deal and options for the remaining years. The biggest (and most discouraging) problem is the money per year. How much does Andruw really want to remain a Brave?
*8/128, rather.
Andruw wants come back as much as Glavine did. He will be gone next year to the highest bidder just like Tommy. Replacing high priced, aging stars with prospects has worked very well for the Braves (for that matter Andruw basically did the same for Justice back in 1997) in the past decade and a half. With the team’s payroll limitations, it would be insane to lock up any one player for 8 years and over $100 million dollars anyway.
Someone will offer him 20mil a season and it won’t be ATL. Our only hope is an increased budget and that’s extremely unlikely. Even if we dumped Hudson’s salary, I don’t see us being able to offer more than 15-16 mil per season and I doubt JS would offer 8 years to anyone. Although, does anyone remember how many years JS offered ARod?
A-Rod might have been offered 8 years…but he was several years younger than Andruw is now (27 at the oldest), and he was fairly obviously the best player in baseball. Of course, this is a more expensive market now (thanks in part to A-Rod’s eventual Rangers contract), and the Braves have even less money to spend. I just really can’t see bringing Andruw back.
Give Andruw 8 years/$120 million if he’ll take it. I think he might. He’ll still be a better left fielder in 2015 than Lee and Soriano will be next year, and he’ll play more games in 2015 than Chipper is likely to in 2007. Heck, he might even be willing to restructure his remaining years later on after Liberty sells the team to Blank.
If the Liberty Media deal falls through (certainly a possibility), and Arthur Blank buys the Braves, maybe he can spend Vick’s salary on Andruw.
Yeah I agree Stu…The prospect of resigning him is slim to none as circumstances stand now. I also think we won’t have much luck trading him. The fact that he is 10 and 5 is a serious obstacle. I really hope he has a career year this year and leads us into the postseason. All that being said, I can hold out hope that things would change and we could offer something reasonable to him. A lot of things can happen between now and next offseason. Look at the LaRoche situation. Last year at this time we were all down on him and at one point in the season he was getting cursed at everyday. Then he becomes a BravesJournal favorite and we spin him for great young players. At this time last year we wouldn’t have been able to get Kolb back in exchange for him. All I’m saying is that a lot can happen with the ownership between now and next winter.
Speaking of Vick…ship him to the Raiders. Immediately. For whatever they’ll give you not named Joey Porter.
Jerry Porter, rather. Both crazy, only one plays for the Raiders.
With Wilson on board the Braves have four players, two LH, two RH, to fill two positions adequately — LF and 1B. Some combination of Thorman, Wilson, Diaz and Langerhans should produce similarly to anything Rocco Baldelli would produce.
Chuck James should be untouchable.
I’d try to include Diaz in a Baldelli deal, and I’d make Langerhans the permanent 4th OF. Remember that Baldelli would also be Andruw insurance for the coming years.
I wouldn’t trade James to get Baldelli, either, as I’ve made abundantly clear.
James wont be dealt, I dont see any of our starters leaving because we have no depth there.
I would not trade James or Davies at this point. I am not as down on Davies as some. He is just too young to consider a bust at this point. The last thing I want to see is him pitching lights out for another team in a couple of years (aka Wainright last year).
I’m very happy with this development. Craig Wilson is a fantastic signing–one of the best veteran rentals that JS has made in years, going back to the Luis Polonia days. I like the LaRoche trade even more now. Scott Thorman plus Craig Wilson costs a little less than Adam, and probably won’t be much of a drop-off in production, but we get a lights-out lefty power reliever and a blue-chip slick-fielding high-OBP shortstop prospect. 2007 is already looking better than 2006.
Who should we trade for the recently injured Baldelli? If it involves James, Gonzalez or Soriano or maybe even Davies (unless the Braves are sure of Matt Harrison, no spot for Lance Cormier, please) then John Schuerholz should say no. If it’s the first three mentioned I imagine he’d just laugh. Also this is the Devil Rays, and they get a say in any trade obviously, and they say they want two young starters and a shortstop prospect for Baldelli and the Braves don’t have two young starters to give away. Also trade talks have been dead for a month, and that is usually enough to stop the talk, but not this time I guess.
I wish some team that really wants Baldelli (like the White Sox or Marlins) would just hurry up and get him so maybe, just maybe, the Baldelli-obsessed among the Brave fans out there would finally put his name to rest.
Stu, the Devil Rays only have considered trading Baldelli because they have a huge surplus of young and talented outfields. Why would they take Diaz in a deal?
I’m totally cool with paying 8/126 for Andruw (6/126 not so much). The way I figure it Chipper, Andruw, Smoltz, and Cox ARE the Braves (in a few years we can add McCann and maybe Francoeur) and I’m ok with living or dying by them. I hated letting Glavine and Maddux go even though both were declining and still expensive. I don’t mind a losing season or two if it’s with the same player’s we’ve had so many great seasons with (at least in theory, we’ll see what happens if we keep losing).
Dan,
Calm down! I didn’t say it’s likely to happen — I’m saying I think we should attempt to rekindle the talks. Baldelli’s very good and very cheap.
I’d give up Davies and Lillibridge and something else — no other starting pitching, though. I think Davies could develop into a good pitcher, but I guess I kind of view Baldelli as uniquely valuable to the Braves at this moment in time. With Andruw almost certainly gone next season, there just aren’t many — or any? — other opportunities to secure a productive CF for not a lot of money. I wouldn’t give up every commodity we have to get him, but I’d at least try to resume talks with the Devil Rays, just to see.
As for the Diaz thing, well, if they don’t want him, I see no downside to having an overabundance of cheap, good-hitting outfielders.
Why in the world are you so upset about my desire to have Baldelli? How is this negatively affecting you? Feel free to skip my posts, if they get you this worked up.
We have a much better shot at securing Baldelli or Rios than keeping Andruw at this point. Also, it would be better to make a trade for one of them now than to wait until we are in desperation mode next offseason. I’d hate to see us overpay (in terms of traded talent) for a replacement.
Completely agree with that sentiment, JoshQ.
“Why in the world are you so upset about my desire to have Baldelli?”
Because Baldelli, in my opinion, is overrated and I don’t believe any of the players I mentioned should be traded at all, especially the trio of James, Gonzalez and Soriano. I’ll try from now on just to avoid any Baldelli-related discussion.
Also do we have no centerfielder in the minors that won’t cost the Braves a bunch of talent to use?
Baldelli, Baldelli, Baldelli, I LOVE Baldelli. I’d trade Andruw straight-up for Baldelli. I’d trade Andruw and Davies and Salty for him. I LOVE BALDELLI !!
“I’d hate to see us overpay (in terms of traded talent) for a replacement.”
Last post on this: do you not think the Braves would overpay in any Baldelli trade now? Even knowing the Devil Rays have already turned down Davies, Saltalamacchia and Escobar for just Baldelli?
I don’t have a lot of confidence that we could get Baldelli at the price the (insane) Devil Ray front office is asking. I’d like to have him, but I actually am unsure how serious they are about trading him. I’d suspect their asking price is the reason why they haven’t moved him as it stands now. We obviously turned down the DRays when they asked for Davies, Salty, and Escobar. I’d guess that JS thought that would be overpaying for Baldelli. The only way we get Baldelli is if the DRays back down from their previous stance.
We don’t know that, do we? I thought the Braves had been willing to offer only 2 of those three.
And, no, we have no minor league CFs to take over. Langerhans would be our CF next year.
I don’t think anyone outside of Frenchy, McCann, Chipper, and Smoltz are untouchabel, nor should they be.
My current fantasy:
Badass bullpen. A bunch of guys looking to fit into roles. A couple of vets to keep them up when the grind comes.
2007 Braves=1990 Wire=to-wire Reds!
I would say that James and probably Davies are untouchable this offseason, due to the fact that we have no other options after them
I thought that the reason Lillibridge was such a good pickup is that he could potentially switch to CF?
I hadn’t heard the Lillibridge to CF talk…Where did you here that?
Spike I havent heard that also, I thought it was just a switch between SS and 2B
heard that either
Why is Rios available?
Is it because Vernon Wells resigned and Adam Lind is going to be a stud?
I think it’s because there’s a glut of outfielders in Toronto’s system.
I wrote this yesterday afternoon, before the Wilson signing, and forgot to update it.
Pretty nice writeup:
LaRoche for Gonzalez — The Hardball Times
Just say no to Melky!
I would like to see what we can do with what we have. I like this team, the biggest hole seems to be who can play second and lead off. If someone can fill that role and the rest of the players can be their normal selfs, we should be a tough team to beat.
@#34 Dan, give it up. Stu and others of his ilk are so Baldelli obsessed its laughable. Just ignore the pie in the sky trade scenarios, the guys that have their PHD in statistics wives try to convince you that Baldelli is actually good etc etc. Trust me on this one. Its a lot easier.
Johnny,
2 points for unprovoked rudeness!
I am curious, though…what attributes do others of my “ilk” display?
Mac,
Is Salty really supposed to be a better defensive catcher than McCann? I thought it was the other way around.
Sickels is doing a community projection for Scott Thorman’s 2007 statistics here. Go ahead and make a prediction, and don’t forget to factor in the Craig Wilson platoon.
Oops: forgot to close the link, I guess.
hadn’t heard the Lillibridge to CF talk…Where did you here that?
Lillibridge played CF his freshman and sophomore seasons at UW.
My general rule of thumb is that a player should be developed at the most difficult defensive position he shows he can handle. If Lillibridge is as good a SS as has been reported, it would be ridiculous to put him at CF.
Furcal’s a good example. .280/.350/.420 with speed, range, and a cannon arm will land you on the occasional All-Star team as a shortstop, but as a center fielder you’d probably be looking to replace him.
AAR,
Yeah…doesn’t that pic of him look a little like Chipper?
Maybe it’s just me. 😉
Stu,
You are right unprovoked. If you are insulted, I apologize. Meant as sarcastic humor. If you took it that way I’ll take the 2 points.
Your ilk seems to be enamored with batting average heavy, speed guys with moderate power. ie. Rocco Baldelli. Dan is right. In every other one of your posts you, and this is another attribute, seem to propose a pie in the sky trade where the notoriously stupid Devil Rays take something less than what the was actually rumored to have been offered for ……. drum roll please …….Rocco Baldelli. As you know the Rays highly over value their tradeable players always have and seemingly always will. Well any way, man, you asked.
My ilk is in no way enamored with batting average-heavy speed guys with moderate power. If you’ll actually look back at some of the guys I’ve said that I’ve wanted in the past (Adam Dunn is the first that comes to mind), you’ll notice how wrong you are. That said, no, Baldelli doesn’t look great in the stats department. HOWEVER — and like I’ve said, Baldelli is just kind of a gut feeling, I guess — I strongly suspect that he’s going to turn into quite a player, and very soon. I don’t have a VORP or a PECOTA projection that backs that up, unfortunately, but I sense that injuries — none of which seem to be of the long-term concern variet — have kept Baldelli from realizing his potential and have kept observers from being able to quantify it.
Also, yes, I love to bring up trade ideas. (Some like talking Alabama coaching, some like talking about all the high school football games they broadcast, some like talking music…I like making up trades.) Still, I don’t think Davies + Lillibridge + “something else” constitutes “something less that was actually rumored to have been offered for…Baldelli.” The rumors indicated that we offered 2 out of 3 among Davies, Escobar, and Salty.
And I’m well aware that the D-Rays are stupid, and we’re unlikely to find a match with them, but, as I’ve said, I don’t know, a half-dozen times, I’m simply saying that Baldelli would be a good acquisition and that I hope JS hasn’t given up pursuing him on the off chance that the D-Rays, realizing that they have about 15 outfielders for 3 spots, will back down from their demands a bit.
Sheesh.
Back down all you Baldelli haters! I LOVE Baldelli. After all, a .289/.329/.451 career line is not unattractive, especially given the time he played injured. And since we could use a leadoff type, .339/.368/.650 with 11 HR in 183 leadoff ABs last year is not punch-and-judy stuff. I’ve seen him play. He runs the bases well, has good defensive speed, and seems like a nice guy. He’s also painfully cheap.
Give the D-Rays Davies and Salty and Andruw. Geez, we can’t use them. (That’s a little facetious on Andruw.)
That line is extremely unattractive, at least the middle part of it is. A .329 OBP is positively homely. It’s the equivalent of eight missing teeth, acne, and a hairlip. It’s lower than seven members of last year’s most-regular lineup (guess who!) or the two most-used bench players. It’s lower than Langerhans, whom many people want strung up from a lamppost for his ineffective offense.