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The Cubs are stupid. Stooooopid.
I’d love to flip Huddy for prospects (although it probably means we’re not going to contend next year, unfortunately) but Hayden Penn isn’t enough. Loewen I’d love to get (in addition to his stats, he’s a very tall, extreme GBer with great sinking stuff) but I can see why the O’s don’t want to deal him. Penn has been young for every level he’s played at, but really seemed to hit a wall this year. I’d want some other O’s talent in addition and there ain’t much there.
Santana and Adenhart would be a WONDERFUL draw for Andruw. Santana is a young, above average starter right now — he’s probably more valuable than Andruw is today. Adenhart is one of the top 10 pitching prospects in the game. he could easily turn into a pumpkin, but we need that kind of talent in the pipeline after having it turn completely dry.
Dream situation:
1) Andruw [my all time favorite brave, fwiw] traded for Santana and Adenhart.
2) Langerhans moves to CF.
3) Braves sign JD Drew – 5 years, 65 million – to play LF.
4) Hudson traded for Loewen.
5) Sign Glavine for 1 year.
6) Giles traded for Linebrink.
That would give us
Lineup
1. Aybar 2B [i know the braves won’t do this, but damn it, they should]
2. Renteria SS
3. Jones 3B
4. McCann C
5. Drew LF
6. Francoeur RF [would be lower, but don’t want 3 LHB in a row]
7. LaRoche 1B
8. Langerhans CF
9. P
Rotation
1. Smoltz RHP
2. Hampton LHP
3. Santana RHP
4. Glavine LHP
5. Loewen LHP
Bullpen
CL Wickman RHP
SU Linebrink RHP
LOOGY James LHP
ROOGY Devine RHP
P McBride LHP
P Villareal RHP
P Davies RHP
Bench
1B/OF Thorman LHB
OF Diaz RHB
MI Escobar RHB
MI Prado RHB
C Pratt RHB
12 pitchers is probably too many, but I imagine the Braves will do that anyway. Signing two free agents isn’t realistic because we’re owned by one of two huge, soulless corporations that aren’t the Tribune Company [not sure who actually owns us at this point!]. However, as I drew it up, we’d be dropping 19.5m + Giles’ salary (5m?) in payroll and adding 21m in free agents plus Ervin Santana’s and Scott Linebrink’s salaries, so we’d actually come out ahead.
Get it done, Schuerholtz! 🙂
Oh, btw when i said:
I don’t mean that he’ll be a better player next year than andruw will, i just mean he’s more valuable at this point in both of their contracts (i.e. we control Santana for 4 years at low $$ vs. Andruw for 1 year at moderate $$).
Hear, hear! (I’m in the vast, vast minority…but I love J.D. Drew, and I’m not afraid to admit it.)
One thing: I’d keep Langerhans in LF and put either Drew or Francoeur in CF.
Stu and Kyle S, I love you, but you’re really wrong about this one. That lineup would put a offensive huge burden on Chipper Jones and J.D. Drew, two talented but fragile guys. Signing Drew to a long-term contract is ASKING for injuries, and Chipper figures out ways to miss weeks on end every year with his nagging legs.
Also, Langerhans might not be defensively worse in center, but his reputation is nowhere near the same; Andruw’s rep alone is enough to stop many guys from going from first to third. I have no stats to back that up, but it’s true. Putting Smurph in center, after watching his defensive misadventures in right last year, is enough to make my stomach turn. Our defense has gone steadily downhill the last couple years, and Frenchy in center would be like Klesko at shortstop. Ugly.
Besides, since Jim Hendry seems to be doing his Christmas shopping a little early this year, why don’t we just try to sell him Hampton and Hudson?
I think Drew’s a very good player, too, but he’s only had 500 ABs once in his life. I’m not sure how you count on a guy like him.
I kinda think we got the best anyone could’ve gotten out of him in 2004. It was his walk year, of course—think that had anything to do with it?
Games Played for Drew.
1999: 104
2000: 135
2001: 109
2002: 135
2003: 100
2004: 145
2005: 72
2006: 146
I’d pass on him.
Not a big fan of JD either, too fragile. You cant doubt the talent that he has, but you can doubt the effort and the heart that he plays with. He basically just through the Dodgers under the bus and took Boras for his word, that isnt a team player in my opinion. Just like Roberts and Pierre, I’ll pass.
BTW, just for the record I’m not comparing him to those guys. I just dont want him
through – threw
Frank Catalanotto is about to get a 3 to 4 year deal w/ the Rangers
I like the Soriano deal. Not for them of course, but for us. Soriano = $17 per yeal means Andruw’s actual value should be between $20-22 per year. That just increased his value and if we cant be more than say 80-90% sure that he’ll resign with us, its time to move him. I think someone that has a market value of 22 million should be able to bring us better players than Brian Anderson. We should be able to get 1 or 2 immediate impact players for him and a few cant miss prospects also. His value will never be higher and if he doesnt want the extension then its time for him to go.
I’m the only one awake I guess, anyways you can read this in the morning if you care. Rosenthal’s thoughts on Andruw after the Soriano signing…
– The Braves can forget about signing center fielder Andruw Jones.
Jones also is a free agent after next season.
The Braves had better get two or three great players for Andruw.
Good day for former Braves bullpen members…
Looks like Mike Stanton’s signing with the Reds and Justin Speier got a 4 (!?) year deal with the Angels. There’s something I can’t wrap my head around about someone paying $18 million for Justin Speier.
There’s something I can’t wrap my head around about someone paying $18 million for Justin Speier.
While I wasn’t looking, Speier turned out okay:
2.10
3.38
3.91
2.56
2.98
Those are his last five seasons ERAs. 2002-2003 are his road splits only, as he was a Rockie then.
Four years, $18 million, though? Did he ever hit the market at the right time.
His dad played 19 years in the majors. Extrapolating from the salary data available on BBRef, he made probably just over $3 million or so.
Andruw to the Angels for Santana and Adenhart is fine with me.
Huddy to the O’s for Loewen would be a good move not only because of Loewen being a good looking prospect but it would be great on our payroll.
Giles to the Pads for Linebrink is still ok with me.
I’d really prefer not having Langy in center unless we have absolutely no one else. I love his defense..but he is a huge liability offensively. If we are going to trade Druw(sadly we have to because we won’t resign him) then we either have to trade or sign an offesive OF this season.
Just a couple of guys that we could look at..(most of which I doubt we could get)
LF- Carlos Lee
RF/LF- Jeromy Burnitz
LF- Jose Gullien
and I guess Preston Wilson(career .264/.330/.471….and around 130+ Ks a year.)
My obvious first choice is Carlos Lee, just because of the HR and the RBIs…but he won’t come cheap.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/leeca01.shtml
BTW,
Carlos Lee made $8.5m last year with the Brewers/Rangers…And with Soriano’s deal that is going to have to go way up.
Also,
Soriano going to the Cubs is great for us…at least that keeps him out of the East. He had a little success against us last year, and that’s putting it lightly.
I’m very interested in Jose Guillen. I’ve thought all along that, especially if we deal Andruw, he’d be a good fit for us. Yes, he’s injury prone, but when he’s healthy he produces, and the fact that he’s injury prone likely means he won’t command too much money.
And, Jay, you can deal with Langy’s lack of offensive production in center if you make up for it at one of the corners. You just don’t want to do it if you’re relyinig on Smurph and Diaz.
Same here. I have nothing to say. I waste your server :$
That last paragraph was me channeling Hubie Brown.
Andruw at ten and five will be a Brave in 2007. Hudson may be moved. Giles may be moved. Andruw will not be moved unless he chooses to be moved.
Selah.
Glavine isn’t coming back. He’s just trying to use the Braves to get more money from the Mets. If he wanted to be with the Braves, he would never have left (spare me any sob stories about how he agonized last time he was a free agent — I’m not buying into that baloney). He’s strictly interested in money, so you can bet he will be back with the Mets for more money than the Braves would ever consider giving him.
The Soriano deal sucks for us. By extension that deal has put Andruw out of reach next season unless her REALLY likes playing for Bobby Cox. All of y’alls trade speculation involving Andruw is hilarious. Remember 10 and 5, 10 and 5, 10 and 5. He isn’t going anywhere.
I’d pass on JD Drew too. A fantastic ball player but way too fragile. It looks like he made the right move after all. I thought he was a dumbass for throwing away 33 million dollars but it looks like in this market that he’ll make that much or more in 2 years. BTW I really don’t know why everyone says that we are an 80 million dollar team, according to Fox and ESPN our payroll was around 101 last season. Of course everyone has a different interpretation of what constitutes the payroll, for example Hampton’s contract.
LaRoche on the block?
http://buccoblog.mlblogs.com/my_weblog/2006/11/no_interest_in_.html
nevermind, this is also at mlbtraderumors.com, it must be false!
1) The LaRoche rumor comes from a Pirates blog that, after 10 years of him being in the Majors, still spells it, “Andrew Jones.” I doubt that’s a reliable source.
2) Yeah, Boras is a great agent. That was a very, very shrewd clause in Drew’s Dodger contract. I bet DePodesta is kicking himself.
3) I don’t see Andruw turning down a trade. He loves the Braves, but he has to know that–barring him signing another contract sans Boras (highly unlikely)–we don’t have the money to bring him back next season. I don’t think he’d accept a trade to the Royals, but to a contender (the only type of team that would go after him, anyway), I think he’d waive his no-trade rights.
4) Ron, you’re wrong. Glavine’s last contract was all about money; this one won’t be. If the Braves can make him a reasonably competitive offer (and I believe they will), you’ll see him win his 300th in Atlanta.
5) Johnny, the payroll thing: we’ve been over this on this site a few times. Those numbers are bogus. They don’t take into account the chunk of Edgar’s salary that was paid by the BoSox or the insurance money we got to offset some of Hampton’s salary, among other things. This team, as it has for the past several seasons, operated on an $80-million-budget last year.
Loewen has talent but he’s a gamble–far from a finished pitcher. But going to the NL might help. Anyway, even if Hudson improves, it’s unlikely he will be the ace in the future–he is already 31. At least Loewen would have a chance. But don’t be too sure this deal will be done–Peter Angelos is congenitally incapable of making a decision and I have my doubts that he would be willing to pick up Hudson’s contract.
As for Andruw, I say keep him this year and take the draft picks. You are never going to get equal value–even if he is willing to go somewhere else. Just having to deal with Scott Boras, I suspect, would scare off a lot of teams from dealing.
The Cubs are crazy. I saw Soriano play all year here in DC. He has amazing power and talent but he is also very inconsistent and can simply disappear. He is good, but he doesn’t bring the total value that Carlos Beltran does with defense. But the Cubs have to satisfy a restless fan base and they sell out every game.
anyone heard what Garciaparra signed for? He got a two year deal from the Dodgers, but no one is showing the amount. My guess is $18-20 million and some incentives….
@#25 Unless Andruw gets an extension offer from the trading partner, no way he plays for another team this season.
I can’t see the Braves seriously looking to deal him though. They would be dealing from a position of extreme disadvantage. His contract situation, the fact that we don’t have a replacement for his production, his 10 and 5 status. If the Braves are dangling him, they are asking for some pie in the sky return that no team is going to entertain. Not with the major players that can afford him knowing that he is a free agent next season. The Braves will take one more season of Andruw in a walk year before they sell low.
i hear nomar is 2-18. probably incentives and/or options too.
drew is obviously an injury risk, but when he’s on the field he’s much better than carlos lee or soriano. i’d say he’s good for 140 games a year, which obviously isn’t 162, but it’s still more than most people seem to think. his low 2005 game total was from a broken wrist on a HBP – that’s certainly not his fault. plus, he seemed to enjoy playing for the braves and certainly played well here.
carlos lee is going to cost about the same as drew, but is one of the worst outfielders in the majors, and has had an OBP below the league average 3 times in the past six seasons (drew has been above average in OBP by at least 17 points in each of the last 7 seasons). drew is also an outstanding defender – him, andruw, and charles thomas were beautiful to watch.
alex, if people will run on langerhans because he has no rep, great! langerhans’ arm is (these days, at least) stronger and more accurate than andruw’s is. he has a cannon.
andruw’s no-trade: certainly i’m aware of it, and yes it means we can’t dump andruw on the pirates or something. however, if we worked out a trade before the season and the team that acquired him told him they wanted to extend him [which i imagine they would offer], i would easily see him do that. he doesn’t want his family to have to worry about it during the season, so if he starts 2007 as a brave you won’t hear me utter a peep about andruw being traded thereafter. i think there is a chance he gets traded before the season starts, though.
glad for the feedback, everyone.
I like JD Drew, but not for more than what the Dodgers were giving him. As for Carlos Lee, he should either try being a 1B or a DH, he doesnt belong in LF at all
Kyle S,
Do you really think Andruw is concerned about his family worrying about his contract status? I doubt they are living hand to mouth now. The point about not accepting a trade is, why should he be put under pressure to sign an extension and effectively give up his free agent year. An extension isn’t going to do it, I don’t think, unless they just blow him away. Otherwise, knowing Boras, he is going to wait and probably make more from the auction. I don’t think there is any way that he is not going to test the market. So, from Andruw’s perspective, why should he go somewhere else for a year. I suspect if the Braves really made it clear they wanted him to go, they could probably persuade him, but as Johnny says, why would anyone bid high for Andruw, knowing he will be a free agent at the end of the year and having Boras as an agent. The only argument about trading Andruw is that they could get something more than two draft picks.
anyone share to guess on Mike Shula’s coaching career?
Going 0-for-Auburn does not make for a long career in TideLand.
I hope Shula is the coach at Bama forever. I am sure I speak for all UT and Auburn fans.
Smitty, you speak for all fans outside of Tuscaloosa. I’m ready for a change, but I really dont think we have the leadership there needed to make a major change. We need a new AD as bad as we need to get rid of Mike.
Back to baseball, From Ben Maller today….
– The Angels could be stockpiling pitchers to use highly coveted Scot Shields in a deal for a slugger, such as Toronto’s Vernon Wells, Atlanta’s Andruw Jones or Boston’s Manny Ramirez. “It might end up leading to something like that, but that wasn’t the objective here,” General Manager Bill Stoneman said. “We have a good bullpen; we want to make it even better.”
– Tom Glavine doesn’t even know for sure if the Atlanta Braves want him just as he’s not sure whether he wants to pitch for them again. But, shortly after midnight tonight, both parties will have the opportunity to find out the other’s intention. Mets COO Jeff Wilpon said last night that, as expected, the team will not exercise the $14 million option it holds on Glavine’s contract for next season by tonight’s midnight deadline, an inaction that makes Glavine — who won 15 games for the pitching-starved team last season — a free agent and allows him to negotiate with any team.
– The official first day of posting for Japanese left-handed pitcher Kei Igawa is today, and the Mariners could be among those bidding. General manager Bill Bavasi won’t say one way or another, but club sources indicate Seattle is leaning toward getting into the competition for the 27-year-old starting pitcher. Bids are thought likely to be in the $10 million-$13 million range, although there are no limits on what clubs can offer. Because of the Thanksgiving holiday this week, the usual four-day posting period has been stretched to a week. Igawa has indicated he’d like to sign with a West Coast team, which means the Mariners would be a good fit. But Seattle, if it goes through with the posting offer, is not certain to land him. … Among clubs who likely will post are the Diamondbacks, Cubs, Yankees, Indians, Mets, Padres, Giants, Braves, Angels and Dodgers.
That’s it for us
think we could trade Giles to the Cubs for Rich Hill
I say we trade Gile to the Cubs for Soriano, only if the Cubs pay his contract. Laugh now, but these are the Cubs we are talking about.
well, i think if the angels traded for andruw and said, hey, accept the trade and we’ll match soriano’s contract (or something along those lines), he’d jump at that. he doesn’t need any more money, but i don’t think he wants to play some place for just a year (or part of a year) and then become a free agent and possibly have to move again. and hell, good for him, he’s earned that right with 10 years of dedicated service.
this kind of thing does happen from time to time – hell, it happened for us when we traded for hudson [he didn’t have a no trade, but probably would have waived it right?]. anyway, that’s my fantasy of the 2007 braves, and i’m sure the reality will have no free agent signings even if we do dump salary.
Waiting for food at a certain fast-food restaurant that shall remain nameless (but they are the official hamburger chain of the NFL) Saturday night after the game, someone offered the explanation for the hangup:
“Shula’s running things back there, too.”
Everybody laughed.
I agree that Mal Moore has to go; the naming of the sports facility after Moore may be their gentle hint that it’s time for him to retire. I’m pushing for Ozzie Newsome for that job.
Shula wouldn’t be so bad if he’d hire a real offensive coordinator and give him the playcalling responsibilities, and if he had a real offensive line coach. If the offensive line could just push people back on occasion Alabama would be at least 10-2; I’ve lost track of the number of times we’ve gotten inside the five and couldn’t get a touchdown, and there’s talent up front. It’s just bad coaching.
I think Darby is a great back and Bama’s defense is as good as anyones, but the play calling is just terrible. It is almost like Randy Sanders is calling the plays.
Kyle, good points. Of course, I still disagree about Drew. He’s not just sulky and fragile, he’s unlucky. He’s only good for 140 games if something terrible doesn’t happen, which is like saying that Reitsma is good except for all the nubbers and flares. He’ll miss a game here and a game there, and then he’ll break his wrist or elbow or shoulder or collarbone and he’ll be gone for the rest of the year.
Mac and Smitty, totally agree we have talent, but there is no push up front. I dont blame Darby, but Johns will be able to replace him. 3 worst calls of the Auburn game, not counting Tuberville’s stupid field goal choice as an option. This is just for Mike.
1. At home, on the 1 yard line. Go for it, dont even think about it…
2. Why go for two? Its 14-9 and not even half time. Hense, the bigger problem here. See #1, one bad call deserves another I guess. If we dont kick the field goal we dont even have to think about it.
3. Kick or Pass, 4th and 15. Lets leave the offense on the field, no wait lets rush the kicking team on. No wait I cant decide, lets call timeout. Okay we’ll go for it. We are down 7, with 5:30 left. Now is the time to kick it.
Lets go back a week or two. Its 4th and 14. Shula decides to call for a fake punt, but he decides to let his kicker run with it. When was the last time a kicker could scramble for 31 yards. We were lucky and there was a face mask penalty called.
Time for something to change
I’m afraid, that they fire the coordinator and we get stuck with Jeff Bowden. I dont really know who would want the job. Considering if they dont win 10 games next year and they dont beat Auburn then its only a one year gig!
The intelligence of the Cubs deal for Soriano is certainly questionable. But it’s interesting as hell…
I suffer from a plague of Cub fans around me. They’ve been pinned like insects for the last 2 years by questions on Prior and Woods.
This spring, WGN can tout offensive fireworks with Soriano, Ramirez, and Lee. Along with a new Manager that can be good for highlights.
Win? When did they ever reall care about winning? It’s all about the party on the rooftop, anyway.
Mike Shula is my homeboy.
I was at all of Auburn’s games this year, including the Bama game, where I sat in the new upper deck, near the top, and actually saw both the St. Louis Arch and Vulcan from my seat.
A few thoughts that csg nailed:
1) Shula’s bad calls started by not going for it on their first drive 4th-and-goal from the 1, although when Shula got it to the 3 to start the drive, 3 runs up the middle had done nothing – I would have liked to seen more ingenuity in the offense.
2) After Auburn scored to go up 13-3 after JPW’s second touchdown, Auburn was assessed a 15-yard celebration penalty late in the first half. Shula had the option of assessing the penalty on the XP try or the kickoff. He chose the XP and John Vaughn drained it. 14-3.
3) 14-9, late first half. Bama scores on a bomb (after Auburn’s DC, Muschamp, makes a stupid call in blitzing a safety on 3rd and long and leaving our worst corner on an island.) Bama then goes for two and misses.
4) You would think this kills the Bama momentum, but it doesn’t. Bama scores to go up 15-14 early in the third. Again Shula goes for two and misses. It would have been 17-14 had he just kicked XP’s, but he didn’t, and is only up 1.
5) Auburn promptly throws on a great pass from the resurgent Cox to Prechae Rodriguez. Up 20-15, Auburn goes for 2 (the correct call up by 5) and makes it on a HALFBACK PASS. 22-15.
6) With 5:14 to go in the game, decision time for Bama. 4th and 15 from the 22. You have two TO’s left, trailing 22-15. Had you not gone for two, Auburn wouldn’t have either, and it’d be 21-17 right now. But it’s not. Shula calls a STUPID time out, and is then forced to go for it. The pass is incomplete. Bama burns their final time out and manages to get it back with 1:00 left. Auburn’s secondary forces an INT and Auburn wins as Shula screws Bama (I’m not even getting into the whole offensive line switching mess) and loses 22-15.
——————–
Now, a funny story:
Best exchange between Bama fans at the game:
(I am walking outside Bryant-Denny by myself, meeting up some friends inside the gate – a random Bama fan approaches, I am not saying anything, just in a blue sweatshirt)
“Auburn sucks!!!! Auburn (bleepin’) sucks!!! Auburn sucks a big, fat, hairy ______! And not just one big, fat, hairy _______, but lots of them!!”
(I look back)
“Auburn sucks that badly, huh?”
“Hell yeah!!”
“How badly does Mississippi State suck?”
(no answer)
(Another Alabama fan is walking by. He enters the conversation.)
“OOOH, you think you had a great comeback, didn’t you four-eyes? You (bleepin’) nerd!! You can tell you’re a ‘Burner and we don’t want you over here. You’re a (bleepin’) nerd! You know why you don’t go here? You’re SMART!! All the SMART people go to Auburn!!”
(I look back and shrug, as do the Auburn fans around me.)
IMHO, the worst part of the soriano deal is that it ups Andruw’s price.
IMHO the worst part of the soriano deal is that it ups andruw’s price.
sorry for the double post…I’m having internet troubles.
I think Darby is a great back and Bama’s defense is as good as anyones, but the play calling is just terrible. It is almost like Randy Sanders is calling the plays.
I’ve seen alot of Alabama this year for whatever reason, and this is one of the worst coached teams in the nation. Alabama needs to get Shula out of there like today. They are 6-6 and bowl eligible so there might be some out there that think it was a so-so season, but here’s the list of teams they beat:
Hawaii
Vandy
La-Monroe
Duke
Ole Miss
Fla International
In other words, Alabama – one of the top four football programs of all time – just finished a season when their best win was over Hawaii! If you are not going to blow the thing up an start over after that, then you have given up on being an elite program. Don’t get stuck in the mediocrity loop that UCLA is currently in with Karl Dorrell.
Going for two early in the game is a good IQ test for coaches. Never do it. Shula failed – big surprise.
Bama’s best win was over Vandy. We would beat Hawaii.
A broken elbow sounds terribly painful, AAR.
I thought the perception was that Alabama was the better school, academically. Am I wrong?
I would argue Bama’s best win was over an Ole Miss team that’s not as bad as you’d think – they played Bama, AU, LSU VERY close.
#49 – Whats funnier, the teams we beat or the way we beat those teams. In other words, we could’ve lost every game in the Sec this year. We only beat Vandy by 3 and we had to beat Ole Miss in OT. Duke was beating us at half time. We didnt win one game from start to finish this year and looking at our schedule, that only says one thing. Poor coaching!
Wryn, not all AL fans are that way. They, the people that were around you, are idiots!
Ole Miss is pretty bad. Very soon, they won’t be; right now, they are. They played those schools close because those schools were looking past the Rebs.
Bama’s best win was over Vandy. We would beat Hawaii.
Questionable. Colt Brennan is pretty great. We’ll see how they do against Purdue and Oregon State, two teams who are generally of Vandy’s quality.
We have a better defense than either of those teams.
What’s most frustrating is not the record — coming into this season, 7-5 looked most likely, and Alabama lost the games it should have lost and won six of the games it should have won. It’s the nature of the losses. Alabama led in four of its six losses. Actually, I believe they led in the second half of all four games. They definitely should have won at Arkansas.
Ole Miss is pretty bad. Very soon, they won’t be; right now, they are. They played those schools close because those schools were looking past the Rebs.
I tend to agree. The two decent teams that Ole Miss played out of conference both crushed them (Missouri 34-7, Wake 27-3). It’s nice that they hung with Auburn and LSU, but both those teams have their questions. The one SEC team I’m absolutely sure is a great team – Arkansas – rolled them.
I hope Orgeron gets that thing turned around before they fire him. He was a dynamite defensive coach and recruiter at USC, wish him nothing but the best.
I didn’t watch Alabama much this year – but that sounds like Carolina’s year. They beat the teams they should have, and lost to Tenn, Auburn, Arkansas and Auburn by a touchdown or less. Could have beaten Florida but for a blocked FG at the end, and Auburn but for a dropped pass on the 2 yard line in the last minute or so.
Of course, the problem with Carolina is not the coaching. I think the talent just isn’t there.
Wryn,
Every big-time football school, including mine (UGA), has its element of subhumans. When your school rolls into town & gets that big road win, it’s par for the course—people are mad (or drunk-&-mad).
Over the years (but mostly in the 1980s), I’ve seen acts of near-shocking stupidity from Clemson fans, Bama fans, Pitt fans, Penn State fans, Auburn fans, Tennessee fans & especially Florida fans.
Once in Jacksonville in the early ’80s, I got cussed out by a Florida fan who must’ve been 80 years old. I had apparently “entered” his RV zone & he let me have it—really, I think it was my red-and-black #34 button that set him off. I couldn’t say anything back to him because he got so mad that I thought he was going to drop right there.
It ain’t easy in times like that, but you gotta roll with it & let ’em steam.
We have a better defense than either of those teams.
The 600 yards allowed to Kentucky make me doubt your assertion.
I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say Vandy, Oregon State, and Purdue can all fit under an umbrella called ‘Mid-level BCS Conference schools’.
Mac, I almost think its the nature of our wins that has most people discouraged. Other than LaMonroe, we havent really played up to our potential. Vandy, Ole Miss, Duke (losing at half), Fla Intern. after they suspended 18 of their starters.
You are correct that we should’ve beaten Ark., and their are good arguments to say we were close in all these games. It’s like what most of the players said after the game, we were close. Shula has brainwashed these kids in thinking that close in acceptable. I’m sorry, its not. Shula’s record against Tennessee, LSU, Arkansas, Auburn, ranked teams in general, his losing record going into the 4th quarter. It says there needs to be a change.
About Andruw, I think that the Soriano deal makes it more likely that he’ll be traded. The Angels have wanted to make a big deal, and if Soriano’s out they might be more interested in Andruw. I also read that they might be interested in trading Shields, who could help the Braves. I like Andruw, but I’d rather see him traded now if there is no chance of him being re-signed.
You are correct that we should’ve beaten Ark., and their are good arguments to say we were close in all these games.
Shula playing for the FG in the first overtime after his kicker had already missed two short FGs has to be the runaway winner for the dumb coaching move of the year. If they win that game as they should have, who’s to say that they don’t use it as a stepping stone to a real good year as Arkansas has? Momentum and confidence can be a powerful thing with 18-22 year olds.
Robert, we haven’t had a bye week all season. The Kentucky game was on our 11th consecutive Saturday playing football. If you play us right now, our defense is beaten up and tired and not good. When I say that our defense is better than those, I mean when they’re all at first-game-of-the-season levels.
Robert,
I do think it’s fair to put us in the same general category as Oregon State and Purdue…my point is just that we’re better than those particular teams.
If you say so. I felt I was being generous by throwing Vandy in with those two teams. Vandy has one win all season over a non-laughing stock. I realize they have some close calls, but their resume doesn’t really compare to Oregon State’s.
I have a tough time taking the ‘we have no bye week’ arguement seriously when I see Temple, Duke and Tennessee State.
Injuries happen against Temple, Duke, and Tennessee State.
It’s not like they’re getting to rest up by playing Pac-10 teams week in and week out.
To all:
On behalf of all UGA people out there, I hereby officially apologize for giving Vanderbilt grads any room to talk smack.
It’s not like they’re getting to rest up by playing Pac-10 teams week in and week out.
Yikes. Didn’t know you SEC-homeritis. Nevermind then, I thought we were having a rational discussion.
Best signs for the UT-Vandy Game:
-“I Rocky Toped your mom last night.”
-“L oose wieght
F at Fulmer (LF sports)
-” I Volunteer you to lick my balls, Dave Roe!”
One win in 24 years and they go all out!
That was a joke, Robert.
In all seriousness, Oregon State has the USC win, but I’m still convinced that Vandy would win in the head-to-head matchup. That may well be irrational.
ububba,
I’m not really talking smack. And whether we’d beaten you or not, I’d be describing how we’re better than Oregon State and Purdue. This is a good, well-coached team. If we can figure out how to close games (it’s been 25 years since we’ve known how), we’ll win 8 or 9 games next year.
Besides, I don’t really need to be able to talk smack; living in Athens this year and wearing my Vandy cap around is good enough for me.
Oh I know, but gosh it’s fun to make fun of ignorant road fans. But believe me when I say the worst of any fan base you’ll ever see are the ones who never make it to their team’s games, can’t find their school’s campus with a map, etc.
We just enjoy rubbing in the fact that we kept you out of a bowl game last year, Smitty.
The fact that you make a point to belittle the program just shows us that we’ve succeeded. After all, we’ve won only once in the past quarter-century; why in the world should you even pay attention to what the Vandy fans are saying?
I agree completely with that last sentence, Wryn.
Also, Robert…you neglected to mention that we opened the season in Ann Arbor. Please don’t try to act like we didn’t play anybody out of the SEC.
Sorry for all the posts…I’m having trouble saying everything I want to say at one time!
By the way, since we’re talking about college football, I should probably mention something about how Harvard can totally SUCK IT BIG TIME! WE WIPED THE FLOOR WITH THEM! Wooo!
Of course, this never happened while I was actually an undergraduate, but I’m not bitter, just ecstatic that they have to drink the bitter cup of defeat while we reel in the hungover afterglow of glorious victory.
The only bad thing is that since we won The Game this year, our football coach probably isn’t getting canned any time soon, which is a shame because he’s awful but seems to be amazingly job-secure–he’s like the Keith Lockhart of coaches.
Howard NL MVP
I have a buddy here at law school who played football at Yale, AAR. Do you know Chad Almy? He graduated in 2004, I think.
Rosenthal…
Rosenthal says Juan Pierre is about to sign with the Dodgers. Oddly enough, it probably won’t result in an improvement from last year: Kenny Lofton had a very nice season in LA, outperforming Pierre in just about every category except for steals. The Dodgers do need at least one more outfielder, as only Andre Ethier is much of a certainty, but this is an awfully expensive way to plug that gap.
Rosenthal doesn’t mention money, but a couple of days ago, a report surfaced that the Giants had offered Pierre $30M for 3 years. That’s awful high if you think Ethier can play center, or if you think Matt Kemp (or any number of other Dodger farmhands) might be ready by 2008. However, Ned Colletti didn’t shop in the bargain bin last year, and it doesn’t look like he’s going to do so this year, either.
Of course this is from MLb trade rumors, but its just GROSS!
No, it’s fabulous. It means we aren’t signing Pierre.
From the Cards mailbag….
I understand that the Braves would be interested in trading Marcus Giles. What are your thoughts on what it would take to acquire him, and what do you feel we would be able to realistically expect from him?
— Corey G., St. Louis
I have been told that Atlanta is, in fact, interested in dealing Giles. He’s in his last year before free agency, and will likely make somewhere in the neighborhood of $6 million this year. The Braves would love to acquire a leadoff man of some sort, or relief help, in exchange for Giles.
The two teams have dealt before, and Walt Jocketty and John Schuerholz hold each other in high regard. So Atlanta is certainly a potential trading partner for the Cards, if Jocketty decides to go that route.
However, there’s a question as to which Giles you would be getting. His offense took a significant dip in 2006, to the point where he wasn’t really a significant batting asset. If he returns to his 2004-05 level, to say nothing of the tremendous offense he provided in 2003, he’d be a big lift. But it’s not a sure thing.
Yeah, I’ll take Wainright back!
Any thoughts on Josh Kinney and Brad Thompson for Giles?
Stu,
I’m giving you a backhanded compliment. It’s all SEC-love in the world of SEC-haters. As far as college football goes, you got it easy in Athens. Here in New York, they just follow the hype. They didn’t believe me when I was telling them all season that Rutgers was a nice story, but as a national contender, they’re a fraud, had a Little League QB & should be happy to AVOID playing in a BCS championship game.
AAR,
I actually watched a little bit of The Game this weekend, but just mainly out of curiosity to see what kind of athletes they have, to see if anyone stood out.
A co-worker/Ohio State grad just came back from the Michigan game today & he was all aglow coming into my office, talking down Florida’s chances, etc.
So, I had to give him the spiel: “Look, I’m the last guy to stand up for Florida, but did you see their schedule? I mean, Ohio State is damn-good, but could you go undefeated in the SEC? Hell, you didn’t even play Wisconsin this year.”
NYC and college football are like water and oil.
I saw part of the game, too, because it was broadcast on the HDNet channel. After 30 minutes, though, I had to turn over to watch Vandy get stomped by UT.
I’m totally against Michigan getting a second shot at Ohio State.
Stu, Agree completely. They had their shot and dont want to see it again. My guess is the winner of USC vs Notre Dame will get the next one. I dont see Arkansas or Florida getting the opportunity
Stu, Agree completely. They had their shot and dont want to see it again. My guess is the winner of USC vs Notre Dame will get the next one. I dont see Arkansas or Florida getting the opportunity
sorry about that
I think USC definitely will pass Michigan if they win out. I don’t think ND has a chance, since their loss is to Michigan. I think Florida could get past Michigan in the polls, but I don’t think they can pass a one-loss USC. Arkansas…I don’t think they can pass Michigan.
I think a one-loss Florida or Arkansas deserves the shot at OSU, but I don’t think they’ll get it.
If the BCS wants to keep Florida out of the national championship, fine, but I swear if we’re still fourth in the BCS and we’ve beaten FSU and Arkansas, then I’ll puke. There’s no way USC is better than Florida. Count me in on the SEC-homeritis, regardless of the negative connotation. Florida, Auburn, and Arkansas would have destroyed the Pac-10 this year.
Michigan, they’re pretty freakin’ good, and this is one Florida fan who won’t cry a river over a re-match. In their only national championship, Florida got a re-match with FSU and made the best of it. It’s only fair to allow Michigan the same courtesy, especially since they pretty much deserve it.
USC? Lots of vomit.
Rob,
Let’s not forget the USC-Arkansas game.
I disagree that Michigan deserves it.
OSU turned the ball over 3 times (two of them complete gifts), and Michigan couldn’t capitalize. Everybody calls it a 3-point game, but it was that only because of a late score, after the game had been decided. Michigan didn’t play well enough to deserve a rematch.
LSU and Tennessee would also have ripped through the Pac-10.
I think that ND wins over USC this weekend…
Also, the Cubs have now committed about $224 million to three players in the last eight days (Soriano, Aramis Ramirez, Mark DeRosa). Not bad
Oh, and sorry about the stupid Florida fan, ubbuba. Sometimes I’m really ashamed of my team’s fans, though it was fun to hear the whole movie theater booing the commercial before Casino Royale where there were fans with USC and Notre Dame shirts on. Don’t know what the commercial was about, I was too busy listening to a SWEET chorus of boos.
Even more off-topic than the off-topic topic right now, but Casino Royale was great! I’m a huge James Bond nut, and I’ve already seen this movie twice, and it definitely didn’t let me down. It was worth the four-year stewing over Die Another Day. Daniel Craig is great as James Bond, and he was appropriately more tough and brutal than other James Bonds (read: Roger Moore and Pierce Brosnan).
#90, not fair. 1st game of the year and McFadden wasnt even close to being healthy and the QB situation wasnt settled. I’m not saying Arkansas is better, but I would like to see them play again. I can guarantee a different outcome
Its probably not worth talking about. Ohio St is dominant and will win their last game
Stranger Than Fiction is awesome. A really, really good movie.
I think Florida could definitely beat Ohio State.
Whoops, forgot about LSU and Tennessee. I felt like I was leaving teams out.
I didn’t get to catch the OSU-Michigan game because I was at work. The cool thing about working at Best Buy is I can go back to Home Theater and catch the most popular game of the week on HD whenever I can break away from my department. But I had heard that Michigan played a good game, and they were on the road, so that has to go for something.
I had also forgotten about the USC-Arkansas game. That was at the beginning of the season, with Arkansas being unranked at the time, and since then they’ve beaten Auburn, South Carolina, Tennessee, and they’ll play LSU.
#97 – I dont
Florida is the most highly penalized time in the nation and a frustratingly erratic quarterback. I love my Gators, but I dunno about beating OSU.
csg,
As good as McFadden is, he doesn’t play defense—they gave up 50 points at home.
Rob,
Totally agree with you about the new Bond—although i thought it was a little long (2:24), it was a great thrill ride & Craig’s new Bond was anything but debonair.
Also, as it relates to UGA & UF fans, let’s just be happy nobody actually got killed this year. I haven’t been to Jax since 1983 & it was pretty crazy back then.
Most highly penalized team in the nation….
Arkansas will beat LSU. Talking about another terrible coach, I might rather have Shula over Les Miles. Well, I dont know. They both suck!
ububba, I didnt say they would win or anything, but I dont think they would get completely blown out again.
Darn….http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2669635
If everything worked out—like the Florida QBs don’t turn it over—I think that Florida could beat OSU. I don’t believe OSU has seen a team all year with so much speed on defense.
It would have to be a perfect storm, however, for Florida to win—but I certainly wouldn’t bet on it.
Darn? That would have been absolutely disgusting if they had done that. Just imagine watching how your son, daughter, friend, relative was murdered on national television, all the while not actually saying that this did indeed happen.
Florida’s secondary is absolutely amazing, but it’s really just Leak who turns the ball over. Tebow has been very good about holding onto the ball this year. Of course, less playing time, but I think he’s only had one fumble this year.
#107 – easy, that was a (SARCASTIC) darn!!!! I have no respect for that man and they shouldnt ever consider letting him even write that book much less give him an interview.
Oh, well then I’m sorry csg. I didn’t pick it up. There are people that were excited about seeing that. My bad.
No my fault, the book stores need to refuse to sell that item. Its sad that at one time, he was someone that a lot of kids looked up too. I cant believe that the publisher thought this was a good idea either
Book stores can sell what they want. It’s up to you to ignore it.
There was a jackass Auburn fan in the student section Saturday night, which surprised me not only because they’re in our section, meaning a UA student let them in, but because I’ve never had any problems with Auburn fans. Tennessee fans are often drunken idiots but Auburn fans are usually decent. One girl wanted to push him down the stairs (the section was overcrowded) and I told her to go for it.
I agree with you about book stores being able to sell whatever they want 99.9% of the time(Shoot, a lot of the books I read (Christian books) wouldn’t be allowed to be sold in a lot of the world), but you’ve got to draw the line somewhere. I think how OJ Simpson murdered two people he got away with murdering is where you draw that line.
This is a rumor, but here it is…
Phillies have made their first offer to OF Carlos Lee. This deal is accordingly worth 5 yrs. 62mil. With a partial no trade clause.
@112
It took me years of J-school and work at Amazon to agree with that sentiment, which I pretty much do. Important to note though, that the cancellation was the result of marketplace reaction, not any sort of legal challenge to the right of publication.
From DOB…
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2006/11/20/dissecting_trad.html?cxntfid=blogs_braves
There’s no way USC is better than Florida. Count me in on the SEC-homeritis, regardless of the negative connotation. Florida, Auburn, and Arkansas would have destroyed the Pac-10 this year.
This is funny. USC has, of course, destroyed Arkansas two years running. Before that, they crunched Auburn two years in a row. Despite that you can state for certain that Florida is better than USC. Why? Because the it’s SEC vs Pac10. Yikes. Logic takes a holiday.
I’m not saying Arkansas is better, but I would like to see them play again. I can guarantee a different outcome
I do put some stock in the ‘Arkansas wasn’t ready’ argument. McFadden is the best college football player alive and he wasn’t himself that day. Still, USC was starting a new QB and RB that day, trying to replace Leinart, Bush, White etc, all in a very hostile road environment. They’ve gotten better as the season has gone along too, and are peaking now as we’ll all see when they bury the Irish on Saturday.
As a USC alum I would be much more nervous about a game with Arkansas than with Florida and their gimmicky little offense and head case QB.
has anyone seen this or do you have any idea of where this is coming from. I just got it in an email.
Subject : The latest from the board moderator at Rivals’s Alabama site ( I have no idea what that is????)
We hope to have a complete update later tonight, but here’s what we have at this point in the afternoon:
The heat is on for a change in Tuscaloosa. The longer we go without an endorsement from the athletic department pretty much reveals that the writing is on the wall that Shula is gone. At this point, we are hearing from multiple credible sources that it is all but a done deal that Shula will not coach Alabama during the ’07 season.
We continue to wait for official word, or at least a timetable for an announcement, but we think this will be resolved by Thursday at the latest, maybe even sooner. We do not think the administration — which has to be gun shy — would pull or will pull the trigger without a certain path to an established head coach.
Stay tuned.
McFadden wasn’t himself, because he didn’t play due to injury
McFadden had a foot injury
Who will replace Shula, Cutcliffe maybe?
I think its like waiting for a Braves big FA signing, not going to happen. I would say Cutcliffe could be a top choice, but who knows
I really don’t think Shula is going to be fired. Certainly not before it’s determined if there’s going to be a bowl game.
Chan Gailey was the rumor last week, because hiring a Georgia Tech coach worked so well the last time we tried it. Sheesh.
Mac, I agree, but do you know of an offensive coordinator that would want to come knowing that if they lose to Auburn next year they are done anyways. My only guess would be Jeff Bowden, but like I said before, there is a reason why he got 600K to leave FSU….
OUCH! http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2669903
Anyone have a problem with Ryan Howard winning the NL MVP?
I’m usually not crazy about non-playoff guys getting it—hey, I led my team to second place! On that basis, I’d lean toward Pujols; but when you compare teams, the Phils actually won more games than St. Louis this year. So why not?
I would’ve leaned a little more to Albert, must be because i’m a bit of a homer(yeah right…)
If that Pirates rumor is true, and I was Schuerholz, I’d offer LaRoche for Mike Gonzalez.
Very true, ububba.
Still, I’ve always favored the if-you-took-both-away-from-their-respective-teams-what-would-the-team-have-been approach…and, though it’s of course subjective, it seems to me that the Phils could have absorbed the loss a lot better than the Cardinals could have.
Pretty close, though, and it’s not an outrageous outcome.
No way would I even consider offering LaRoche for Gonzalez straight-up. You don’t trade .900+ OPS, relatively cheap, young players for relievers.
Five years and 45 million for Juan Pierre!? I’d be very angry if I was a Dodgers fan and very pleased if I was a Padres fan.
maybe if we would’ve offered that deal during the season I would’ve said go for it…but now..no I wouldn’t trade LaRoche for Gonzalez.
Well get a thrown-in. Maybe Nady or one of those others they were offering. I don’t want LaRoche traded, but if he was, a top-notch guy like Gonzalez is who I’d want. But I’d keep LaRoche.
Off Topic:
Packers’ Aaron Rogers is out for the rest of the season with a broken foot.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2669503
My whole problem with judging a player’s MVP-credentials based on his team’s performance is expressed in a few questions: is the player any less valuable if his team sucks? Why should the player be penalized because his GM couldn’t build a good team behind him? Is Howard any less valuable because David Bell was playing third, Burrell in LF, etc.?
For instance, Player A has a .300/.450/.600 with Gold Glove-defense at SS, and Player B is .290/.420/.560 with good defense at 3B. Player A’s team sucks. They have uhh… Bobby Valentine as their manager, Jim Bowden as their GM, and Russ Ortiz as their ace. Obviously, they suck. Player B’s team has Brian Cashman or Walt Jocketty as their GM, Joe Torree or Bobby Cox as their manager, and their rotation is Brandon Webb, Johan Santana, John Smoltz (I’m a homer), Justin Verlander, and uhh… I dunno, I’m tired, some good pitcher. Player A’s team finishes 60-102, and Player B’s team finishes 100-62. Who is more valuable? I didn’t need to mention who their teams were; Player A is, I submit. Who cares how his team did? He was the best player!
Like I said, it’s subjective.
If a player has to carry more weight, in my book, I think more highly of him. If I had a vote, I’d give it to him. A player surrounded by better players isn’t under as much pressure to produce, among other things.
I understand your argument, Rob, and I’ve thought about it before…but I don’t agree with you.
Rob, I agree.
I don’t like when people base the MVP vote on how good would that team be without the player. Example would be the Peyton Manning getting alot of hype for the MVP every year(deservingly so). Obviously the Colts would suck with out him but that doesn’t mean he should be the MVP(Go LT!!!) Anyway I think it should be POTY(Player of the Year) not MVP(Most Valuable Player) because you can make that argument about alot of players in the NFL and MLB.
But Jay, you’re just proving my point by saying it should be the POTY instead of the MVP. The fact that it is the MVP means my standard makes sense.
McFadden wasn’t himself, because he didn’t play due to injury
Except that he did play. 9 carries, 42 yards, 2 catches, -6 yards. You can look it up, and I’m not sure why you wouldn’t before posting something so declarative.
Five years and 45 million for Juan Pierre!? I’d be very angry if I was a Dodgers fan and very pleased if I was a Padres fan.
I was just in my car for a while and the radio hosts and callers all agree…they love this move and Ned Colletti is a genius. No I’m not kidding. The 200 hits in a season card was played, as well as the manufactering runs with his legs card, and don’t forget the good clubhouse guy card. One host made reference to being able to replicate the Pierre-Castillo 1-2 punch that the Marlins had going with Pierre and Furcal. I assume he thought this was a good thing.
I understand what you are saying Stu, but I still think it should be whoever the best player of that year is…not the most valuable to that team…
Example:
I’m going to use football again. If I understand what you are saying then whoever the most valuable player is…should win the MVP(i know that doesnt make sense, just bare with me). Let’s take last year’s MVP…Shaun Alexander. Sets the record for touchdowns. Then he loses Hutch in the offseason and now he is playing like shit(even before the injury)If what you are saying then a case could be made for Steve Hutchinson winning the MVP last year..because without his big ass in front of him, Alexander can’t even get anything done(and I should know, because I took him #1 in a fantasy team this year) Every team has an MVP, an emotional leader that without them that team wouldn’t be the same…Peyton, Urlacher, LT, Merriman, Taylor, Lewis…etc
I understand what you are saying, I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree.
Yup. We are.
The Mets have now officially declined Glavine’s option. The Braves are now allowed to talk to Glavine and his agent any time they want, even tonight.
Its ridiculous anyway because pitchers can’t/don’t win it even when they deserve to.
According to MLB4U…we are one of four teams showing intrest in Hideki Okajima, 30 yr old set-up pitcher from Japan. Other teams are SD, CWS and CLE…
Also from MLB4U, we may be intereted in Lastings Milledge of the Mets. They would want pitching. I am 99.9999999% sure we wouldn’t trade with the mets.
My problem with the USC stuff is that people are talking like they’re the only option, that they’re clearly better than a one loss SEC champion. And that’s just absrud. USC’s loss was against a four-loss Pac 10 team while the Gators lost to an opponent that was, at the time, in the top 10. Florida has played the toughest schedule in the league, and still will have at the end of the year. (Notre Dame is rediculously overrated. Seriously, who have they beat? Penn State? Common. In their only challenge, they got murdered by Michigan….)
The thing that really gets me is that people are penalizing the Gators for winning close games against Vandy and South Carolina. Put those teams in the Pac 10 and you’ve got 7 or 8 win squads. There are five teams in the SEC better than the #2 team in the Pac 10. Does this not matter to voters?
Bleh. USC is getting a free ride because they had good players last year, not because they’re overwhelming good teams this year. I REALLY hope they lose to Notre Dame, but I don’t think for a second that it’s going to happen.
Thought this was a Braves site……
Go Cuse!
Florida, who beat south carolina by one at home and almost blew a 21-0 lead over UGA at home, couldn’t beat Ohio State’s towel boys
Lee,
The UGA-Florida game is always played on a neutral site in Jacksonville. It only feels like an away game to us Dawgs.
And I’d like to see any other team walk the gauntlet Florida has this season & come out with only one loss.
We really need a playoff system in NCAA football, to point out the obvious.
/I’ve been away, how’s everyone been?
I think the winner of the SEC title game should join the NFL. Because obviously, only an NFL team can match up with the SEC teams. Sorry to be sarcastic, I grew up with the SEC but the bias is a little much. There are other places in the country where they play pretty good football. I don’t think Michigan or OSU would have gone undefeated in the SEC but I also think OSU is significantly better than any SEC team.
BTW, Alex, do they let football players take special courses at Yale?
As for MVP, I don’t have a problem with the team’s performance having some bearing, but I can’t see making the distinction between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. I don’t think the MVP should entirely depend on how good the team is.
Marc,
I think we can all agree that the BCS & the “national championship” is a long-running joke that really proves little. A playoff is needed.
However, the reason that “SEC bias” exists is because it is, year to year, top-to-bottom, the best, most talented conference in college football.
Want some proof on the talent pool? Which conference has more players on NFL rosters? That’s right, the SEC with 266, which is 30 more than the Big 10.
Sure, USC, Ohio State, Notre Dame & others have very good teams and legendary programs, but they don’t play the kind of competition that Florida, for example, has played this year.
That’s not a knock on those programs at all. But when you open your season looking at a schedule that includes Tennessee, LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, FSU & a potential SEC title game, that’s not exactly playing the 3 service academies. That’s 8 of 13 games against bowl teams from 2005.
In the SEC, you play every team in your division, plus 3 from the other division. If you’re good enough to make the title game, you may have to play one of those 3 teams again or another worthy contender. Basically, you don’t duck anyone, like Ohio State did this year with Wisconsin.
Sorry, the SEC is the best conference. They may not have the single best team each year, but if you don’t think they’re the best conference in college football than you’d be disagreeing with an awful lot of NFL scouts & coaches.
Ububba,
I don’t disagree with you, but I don’t like the attitude that only the SEC can play football. I agree that the SEC is generally the best conference, but you have to admit that there is a certain parochialism in the discussion of the SEC. And, frankly, even if the SEC is the best, that doesn’t preclude other conferences from playing good football. I simply am bothered by the dismissive attitude that SEC fans have toward non-SEC football, even when talking about truly great programs like OSU, Michigan, USC, Texas, etc. And there are lousy SEC programs too, besides Vanderbilt. As a matter of fact, I was in grad school at UGA when we won the National Championship and, while I was thrilled with the win, I can say we benefitted from a very weak SEC schedule at the time (admittedly a long time ago).
Marc,
Personally, I actually like the SEC parochialism. Half the time, I’m just making a fun argument, almost playing a died-in-the-wool SEC fanatic character, someone who refuses to budge from his position. I live in NY, so it’s not a conversation that anyone here even understands, if they engage in it at all. (See? There’s your parochialism.)
And looking at it in a larger sense, I’m sure that SEC football covers for other aspects of life that may be lacking for some people. I know that growing up in Columbus, Ga., I was surrounded by Bama, Auburn & Georgia fans (in the Bear-Shug-Dooley Era) and the arguments/conversations were simply a part of everyday life—if anyone brought up a non-SEC team (or Tech, the school that quit the SEC!), they were dismissed in often-comic fashion. Sorry, it’s in my blood.
Re: ’80 Dogs
The most talented team top-to-bottom in 1980 was Pittsburgh—Hugh Green, Ricky Jackson, Dan Marino. They lost one game, at FSU 36-22. They were l-o-a-d-e-d, but for some reason they only played in the Gator Bowl, where they dismembered South Carolina (then an independent.)
But when you beat every team on your schedule, you never have to apologize. And let’s not forget that, in 1980, in addition to winning those squeakers at home vs Clemson & USC, Georgia won at Tennessee, at Auburn, in Jacksonville and, of course, in New Orleans—not bad.
I’ve always said that the 1981-83 teams had more NFL-calibre talent, but you gotta admit that that 1980 squad was an amazing team, and what a season!
I understand what you mean about how important SEC football is in the South. I was home in Tennessee recently and went up to my aunt’s house, where my cousins had all gathered to watch the UT-UGA game (not pretty). It’s a true cultural tradition. But I work with Big 10 people and they are just as passionate about Big 10 football as the SEC is.
You are right, that was an amazing team. And Herschel Walker was an absolutely amazing athlete. In the USC game, Herschel ran a draw on third and 10 and went up the sideline; the DBs had an angle and I assumed they would run him out of bounds, but they simply couldn’t close on him and he went 80 yards or so for a touchdown. Amazing. He was literally like a man playing with boys that year at times. I loved watching that team, it was incredibly opportunistic, but realistically, it wasn’t the best team in the country. But, Auburn and UT were both somewhat down that year. Florida had them beaten until the Lindsey Scott play. Notre Dame pushed them all over the field most of the game. I know it’s only the final score that counts but . . .