ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Braves at Marlins
You have got to be kidding me. Beaten by Wes Helms? Though we are talking about yet another game lost by Kali Yates, who can make Helms look like a good hitter. Sheesh.
You’re headed in to a game that is Lance Cormier versus Dontrelle Willis, you don’t think you have much chance anyway, but Cormier did pitch pretty well in his last start and the Braves have hit Willis this season. The Braves loaded the bases with none out in the second, but got one run when Pratt hit into a double play. Cormier gave the lead back on a homer in the bottom of the inning.
Cormier allowed single runs in the fourth and fifth, but again pitched okay, allowing seven hits but not walking anyone and striking out six. He had his best inning in the sixth — actually, I think it was his best inning of the season — with a groundout and two strikeouts. He had only thrown 86 pitches, but Bobby hit for him anyway.
The Braves had tied the game in the sixth on a two-out two-run homer from Francoeur, hit on a 3-2 pitch that was probably ball four but if you can hit a homer go ahead and swing, I guess. Anyway, tie game in the seventh — that means it’s time to meet Kali!
Yates, of course, walked the leadoff man. That’s what you do when you’re Tyler Yates. It’s probably in his contract. The next guy hit a bunt popup, and then Wes Smelms himself came to the plate to hit a triple to take the lead. Yates retired the next five men, but too little, too late.
Bobby might have been in the Doghouse anyway for using Yates but clinched it with what happened in the ninth. Leading off, Francoeur hit a routine single, but hustled all the way and turned it into a double. Diaz was trying to get him to third when he was hit in the shin with a pitch.
LaRoche comes to the plate. Now, a bunt with runners first and second, nobody out, is actually not a bad play if you can do it. LaRoche is not a skilled bunter, plus he’s slow. His bunt barely got out of the dirt. The catcher picked it up and started the rarely-seen 2-5-3 DP. After an intentional walk to McCann pinch-hitting (and why use McCann if you know he’s going to be walked?) Langerhans popped up to end it.
Francoeur outhit the rest of the team, 3-2, but they did draw five walks. The other hits were by Orr and Renteria.
UPDATE: It has been revealed that LaRoche bunted on his own! I don’t think anyone expected that. And frankly, nobody should sac bunt unless the manager gives the go-ahead. Anyway, Bobby is not in the Doghouse now.
Why Bobby, Why.
And if LaRoche hits into a DP, people woulda said we shoulda bunted.
Bad decision? It turned out that way. Bad execution. Certainly.
I’m off to Atlantic City for the week. Don’t jump off any buildings, folks…
Have fun in Atlantic City.
See everyone later.
The excecution was bad..but the call was still worse.
Even if it was bunted well…they would walk McCann and Ryan would’ve been batting with the bases loaded.
Now, I for one rather have LaRoche and McCann swinging away, with the way they’ve been batting…than Langerhans.
But whatever, we can’t change it anymore.
The bunt wasnt such a bad call. Not a great one but not terrible. If we were going to bunt for sure we shoulda PHd for LaRoche so we could actually get it down. and wasting McCann sucked
as soon as bobby saw the bunt go bad he could have still pulled McCann back. Why waste him there when it was obvious they are going to walk him?
Just an all around bungle of the situtation, but we have seen it for years. This year we just dont have the pitching talent where the manager is actually being exposed before October.
Please Bobby, Please Bobby dump yates, Even Rick Luecken and Craig McMurtry ( after 83) think he is brutal. Best Francouer game of 06 in my mind
Bobby needs looser pants, his tight ones are cutting off the ciculation to his brain. LaRoche Bunt? Thats like using Yates in a clutch situation it just don’t make any sense, but hey at least he ain’t doing tha….oh wait. crap.
Why not just send Smoltz up there to bunt??
Even if LaRoche gets the bunt down it’s still an idiotic decision. Period.
You have two choices:
-1st and 2nd, 0 outs, with LaRoche and McCann coming up.
– (Best case) bases loaded, 1 out, with Langerhans and Orr coming up.
He choose the latter. You cannot defend that.
LaRoche bunting there is a bad call. He’s 3-4 with a HR and BB against Borowski in his career. He’s only hit into 5 DPs this year, and he’s a pretty hot hitter right now. Someone should have done a better job briefing Bobby.
Jeremy…that is exactly what I meant.
Jeremy, generally speaking, it’s fine to bunt in that situation. The guy on third can score a dozen different ways with one out. So you’re not correct that best case is bases loaded with Langy and Orr coming up. I just think that LaRoche is pretty darn hot now, and especially against Borowski.
No, I think we would’ve had a better chance to score letting LaRoche & McCann swing away.
Not to mention Borowski was all over the place.
If you trust Langerhans or Orr to get a runner home from third, then more power to you. I don’t.
After LaRoche botched the bunt, he had to hit McCann with two outs. He’s the best hitter available. Worse would have been for a less skilled hitter to end the game with McCann on the bench.
Point is, a runner can get home from third with less than two outs in lots of ways that have very little to do with the current hitter’s skill. Heck, I can be the recipient of a wild pitch, passed ball, balk, etc.
But with a base open…McCann was going to get walked for sure. There’s no way McCann would get to bat. If Adam laid down the bunt he wouldn’t have batted..and after the dp..with the base open ofcourse he was going to get walked.
That’s what I don’t get. By calling for the bunt, Bobby took the bat away from Adam and Brian, 2 of our best guys, especially after the All-Star break.
Hell a fly ball would have moved up at least Frenchy, a double play moves the runner to third, a strike out doesn’t make things muchworse, especially with McCann up next. a failed but gets a runner out a third.
It wasn’t a good call
Oh well, I’m not going to pretend like I know more than Bobby. He made a call, it backfired…and that’s that.
Nothing to do about it now…
But McCann HAD to bat there. With two outs, there is no reason for the batter to be intentionally walked, other than to pitch to the next guy — i.e., no reason to set up the DP, etc. If a lesser batter had ended the game there with McCann on the bench, you guys would have been screaming ape shit.
Smitty, a fly ball with guys on 1-2, sets up the DP to end the inning because the guy on 1st probably cannot advance. A DP with guys on 1-2 gets the runner to third, yes, but with two outs. Many fewer scoring options then. Agreed, a K by LaRoche there is better than a DP, but NOT better than a successful sacrifice.
We all seem to agree that it was a bad call for LaRoche to bunt … but for very different reasons.
I blame Yates for today’s loss. Bobby did put him in, but ultimately, he gave up the run.
A nine-game homestand against the Reds, Pirates, and Giants with two days off coming up. No worse than 6-3 or we’re toast.
I say we go 7-2.
I hate the bunt under pretty much any circumstance, because I think the NL uses it way too much, but this one was especially irritating. By doing that, Bobby negated his 2 best hitters at the moment. LaRoche has been hot and McCann has been McCann. If you bunt successfully, they IBB McCann. If you don’t, then we get what we got today. You have to let your hitters hit, especially when you have a guy up there that sucks at bunting. Yeah, it’s bad for LaRoche not to know how to execute fundamentals, but guess what, he can’t, and rather than get mad at him because he SHOULD be able to, Bobby needed to just acknowledge that weakness and let him swing. Everybody has to know how to bunt, but when somebody doesn’t, you can’t force them to learn with the game on the line.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. That cost us the game right there.
BTW
Jets- Kevan Barlow
49ers- Undisclosed draft pick
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2555699&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
NYM- Guillermo Mota
CLE- PTBNL
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2555708&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines
DET- Neifi Perez
CHC- Minor leaguer
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2555615&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines
I take all my criticism of Bobby back. Apparently LaRoche bunted on his own.
From the AP recap:
So… is Laroche in the doghouse now?
Well, that’s something. I don’t know what to think about that. He was clearly thinking, but made a questionable decision.
Hey Mac does Francoeur still suck?
Yep, time to edit the doghouse. That is just stupid.
Wow, Adam, you have been swinging one of the hottest bat in baseball and you are trying to be a manager of the team now? I thought I am starting to like you again knowing you have started taking medication, but bunting on your own is just stupid.
Adam, if you are Chipper and Smoltz, you can start making your own decision. Since you are only a third-year player, perhaps you should just follow whatever order your manager gives you.
shucks. not a brilliant move on laroche’s part; i’m sure he’ll get a talking-to tonight. hard to get on the guy too much though as he’s been winning us games with the bat.
Justin, francoeur had a nice game, no doubt. however, he is still last in the majors in on base percentage among OFs who qualify for the batting title. so despite his play today, he still rates as one of the worst outfielders in the majors this year.
“BTW
Jets- Kevan Barlow
49ers- Undisclosed draft pick”
Well, I guess that means that Frank Gore is the RB for my Niners now. 🙂
I’m pretty irritated that Laroche decided to bunt, but I’m super ticked off at the way he ran to first. As soon as he bunted the ball he should have taken off down the line, but instead he hung around the plate to watch Olivo pick it up right in front of him. And then on top of that he seemed to stutter step as he neared first base, for what reason I do not know. If he had exited the batters box with a litlle bit of haste and run through first base he could have at least avoided the double play and McCann would have had a chance to swing away. He screwed it up pretty much every way possible.
Wow…LaRoche decided that on his own?? Wonder what Lando is thinking right now..
I’m sorry Bobby, I take it back. You should not be in the doghouse..it’s Adam.
For the record, it was a 2-5-4 double play, with the second baseman covering after the first baseman charged to field LaRoche’s bunt.
I couldn’t even watch the end of that play, but I can’t say I’m surprised. A 2-5-4 must be even rarer.
If the Braves had a backup first baseman, I’m sure Laroche would sit the next game. But, seeing as the Braves DON’T have another first baseman, he’ll get a stern talking to… and that’s it.
Oh, wait. The backup first baseman right now is Pratt. 🙁
If the bunt hadn’t cost us a chance to win the game, I wouldn’t be so pissed. But in all honesty, that was a game we should have won, but didn’t cause of something stupid.
Well maybe Adam is thinking too much now
Maybe Adam bunted in another attempt of his to be a pitcher?
Frenchy’s MLB debut
Jeff is cool…
I’m surprised Marcus was able to reach that high though..
Jay..I left a reply for ya again..
Are you going to update your teams each week?
I thinking about doing just about every team.
how do you mean?
Well I am going to preview/recap each hokie game.
I was wondering if you were going to do the same with Miami?
well, I dunno man
it depends on how much time I have. My classes resume next monday..so, that’ll take plenty of my time.
I work also, at a webdesign company..and certain projects are very time consuming…
But I’ll see..
But I have a re-exam tomorrow..so I gotta get up early..
Im out..
Oh, I see.
I gotta wake up at 6 so I am gonna leave….see everyone tomorrow.
Cheat if you have to
The bunt was a stupid decision, to be sure, but it’s one I can forgive. What will take a lot more for me to forgive is lack of hustle, and, as someone mentioned above, it appeared that LaRoche was both slow in getting out of the box AND slowing down as he reached first base. I’ll need to review it further before making a final ruling.
One good game does not a good player make. Francoeur has been below average offensively all year, and no one in his right mind should change his opinion of a player because of one game. Francoeur should be batting eighth.
I haven’t forgotten, Stu, don’t worry. It was interesting in that he golfed that home run over the stupid wall, I’ll give him that.
Hey, you know what? If Francoeur bats eighth, he’ll be walked a lot more. 😀
Fun fact: Jeff Francoeur’s next home run will tie him in 65th place on the Braves all-time list with Bobby Thomson (38). 😀 lol
Currently, Frenchy is tied with Butch Nieman (1943-45, OF), Gerald Perry and Rafael Ramirez.
“Wow…LaRoche decided that on his own?? Wonder what Lando is thinking right now..”
AP: Neighbors report screams from BravesJournal member Lando’s house.
Watching the Red Sox lose for the fourth straight time and fall further out of the AL East and the AL wildcard would be nicer if it wasn’t the Yankees.
I would love it if the Devil Rays of the Orioles would win the AL East and end the two-card monty.
Thank you, Jeremy, for your post @ #28. It taught me something.
I’m not as mad at LaRoche as I was yesterday. It was one play in a whole game. Somebody had a chance to bat after that play, but didn’t deliver. Sure wish Pratt would’ve done something better when we had bases loaded earlier in the game.
But we’ll really have to wonder why Adam came up worrying about failure (see post #28) instead of thinking here is my chance to be a hero.
What’s up with that? I don’t want to read too much into it, but look at Chipper’s comment. Gotta get Huck’s attitude fixed before next year, Bobby!
Yates deserves the Doghouse more than LaRoche.
Good point Kevin. I know he’s had a hard time with this current injury. Gotta wonder if that was what made him have the doubts. I don’t want to read too much into it either but living in Huckleberryland has to be an interesting experience. Here’s to hoping he works it all out.
I know the info from MLB Trade Rumors page isn’t the most accurate on earth, but it is still interesting to read the following about Tommy:
“Tom Glavine’s got a possible blood clot, which could mean season or career-ending surgery. At least his life is not in danger. The news first appeared on an ESPN message board from a man said to be Glavine’s brother-in-law. Back when Glavine appeared healthy, the same source indicated that the southpaw would finish his career with the Braves, at any salary.”
If Tommy is all healthy, I would love to see him coming back to Atlanta to finish his career.
I know there is mixed feelings here about Tommy. I dont care who he pitches w/ next year. I just hope this doesn’t end his career. I would love to have him in Atl, but if that doesn’t happen I hope he can pitch next year somewhere else. I have always liked him, he does his job quietly and he helps the younger players, I respect that…
Even though he plays for the Evil Mets, I respect Glavine. I look forward to watching him address the baseball-nation as he enters Cooperstown several years down the road. If he comes back to Atl, Great! If not, that’s still cool. Glavine has given Atl fans enough to cheer about in the past and I hope everyting goes well for him.
ATL: RHP John Smoltz (10-6, 3.62 ERA)
The ace veteran is 14-11 with six saves and a 3.41 ERA in 37 career appearances against the Pirates
PIT: LHP Zach Duke (8-10, 4.99 ERA)
Duke is 1-8 with a 5.54 ERA in 13 road starts this year
Player to watch
Braves left fielder Matt Diaz has hit .329 (27-for-82) at home this season. In August, he’s hitting .411 (21-for-51) in 18 games.
I’m not sure, but I think I witnessed something remarkable yesterday. In two of Frenchy’s Ab’s he took the first pitch. I think he also took 3 straight pitches in one of those ab’s too. I wonder what was wrong w/ him….
Tom Glavine has always been my favorite pitcher of all-time. It hurt me just as much as it probaly hurt all of you that he went to the Mets. But I want nothing but the best for him and I hope he is ok.
By the way here is his contract. It looks like he a player option and a team option for 2007 and if either is declined he will get a 3M buyout.
http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=624
For anyone that likes Mad TV….this is one of the funniest things i’ve seen on there.
Laroche is stupid, but this does make him a team player.
Despite him being absolutely stupid, this proves he is more of a team player than Francouer. He tries his best to help the team in fact so much it takes away his strengths and makes him stupid.
LaRoche gets a pass. Francouer has had 40 horrifically bad ABs along with 250 bad ABs this year. LaRoche has 9 or 10 really, really, bad ones, including this one.
I assumed Cox made the decison, so my apoligies to Bobby, he should and apparently did know better. LaRoche gets a pass….so in conclusion stick it Lando.
Francouer had his best three AB’s of his life yesterday. maybe he is starting to get the point.
That bunt was one of the most depressing things I’ve seen in SUCH a long time. To know that it was LaRoche doing it on his own is just… stunning. He was scared of hitting into a double-play?! Gimme a break. Ehh. Let’s just call this one a “learning experience” then….
two words for everyone…YATES YATES
that’s where my blame is going….
I blame Chip Caray
My favorite MAD TV moment was the one where Corky and the Juice pigs imitated REM.
“Then I ask myself why are all of my hero’s either gay and cowboys?”
“All of the people, the msierable peple, thousands, millions etc.”
That episode was on a few days ago.
Two right up there are the BudBowl tragedy and the Dolemite in Space sketch. I also liked Swan and Luke Skywalker(Mark Hamil).
I blame Don Sutton’s jerry curl.
(not spelled correctly know)
Oh thats right, it was a perm.
I blame Don Sutton’s perm!
“Francouer had his best three AB’s of his life yesterday. maybe he is starting to get the point.”
Maybe he got lucky?
I blame Glenn Diamond
I blame Neil Diamond and his greasy head of hair.
Seriously, LaRoche trying to bunt is like Yates trying to pitch.
The result of such attempts is always ugly and profane.
I would rather have Roachy bunting than Yates pitching anyday. That should say something, but I’m not sure what
Who fills Glavine’s spot int eh rotation for the Mets, do they have to call up somebody?
And what about Jmaie Moyer? The Phillies are getting a soft tossing left-hander. When do we play them next?
Jamie Moyer
Glenn Diamond…you ugly mofo.
I have never seen him…but the booth was releived they didn’t show him…so that means it has to be pretty bad.
It can’t be as bad as Chip’s unibrow…
so, who’s watching the saints and cowboys game tonight?
No TO.
Is there any real football on this week? Are there any college games this weekend?
not that I know of.
“Laroche is stupid, but this does make him a team player.
Despite him being absolutely stupid, this proves he is more of a team player than Francouer. He tries his best to help the team in fact so much it takes away his strengths and makes him stupid.”
Uh…what about Francouer makes him “not a team player”?
Hes not swining and missing at balls for the selfishness of it. I see no reason to think hes NOT trying he damnest to help the team win..his approach is bad. Would you say McCann isnt a team player bc hes slow? No, its just a skill McCann lacks. Same as Francouer lacking PD. Now Francouers issue is much more harmful to the team but it doesnt mean hes not trying or has character flaws.
Hell did you SEE what Francoeur did in the 9th yesterday? that hustle doesnt come from somone whos not a team player
I won’t be watching Dallas – New Orleans…
Tonight Prison Break returns…so, that will have me foaming at the mouth.
I’ll be watching Spike Lee’s Hurricane Katrina documentary, “When the Levees Broke”, which premiers tonight on HBO.
Just FYI.
Alright, I’ve had about a day to think about LaRoche’s decision. I think it does make him more of a team player, even though the execution was bad. When you have a player who decides he’s going to bunt, this is basically what’s going on: he’s willing to give himself up, as a “sacrifice”, to move up runners and give the team a better chance to win. With that in mind, I don’t have ill-will against LaRoche, but I do believe the decision was dumb not only to try to bunt when he’s got 25 dingers, but also in that decision. Even with a success, it essentially takes the bat out of LaRoche and McCann’s hands.
I also don’t see how this makes LaRoche more of a team player than Francouer. I just don’t see it. Francouer is definitely a team player. He also plays hard, does try to advance runner by hitting the ball to the right side, he gives up his body on diving catches, and apparently he’s a nice teammate. He’s just got a horribly damaging flaw in his game that may destroy his career. That’s the issue. He did have 3 great at-bats yesterday, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
As for the bunt PERIOD, I think it should be abolished altogether. Major League baseball teams do not practice the bunt, period. So why try it in the game? That’s like a football team never practicing the option and then trying to pull it off during the game. It’s just… dumb. Period. And unfortunately, the blame belongs on Bobby being so in love with the bunt. How many times have we taken the bat out of good hitters to try to bunt and it fail miserably? The cost just isn’t worth the result.
It does remind me of my high school baseball coach, though. He loved to bunt. This guy probably had dreams about bunting. He would go home and just fantasize about bunting. But one thing he did PERFECTLY was one thing obviously major league teams aren’t doing it: he practiced it to no end. By doing that, he found out who could bunt and who couldn’t. And because of that, there was players, myself included, that NEVER were called on to bunt during the game. It just didn’t happen. I could shoot the ball in the gap and knock the heck out of the baseball, but I just couldn’t get a bunt down. I dunno, it was just hard for me. Mechanics, mind set, hand-eye coordination, just straight execution, dunno. They say it’s just like catching a baseball. I just suck, I guess. Renteria, Giles, LaRoche, etc., these guys can’t bunt. They just can’t. Unfortunately, Bobby doesn’t know this until it’s too late.
Sorry for the long post. Just had a lot on my mind. Have a good rest of the day.
its sad…millions of dollars and cant bunt the ball
We sure are blaming a lot of this loss on Laroche, but why not blame it on Yates? Sure, Adam tried to do something terribly moronic and the outcome was not great. But seeing as how the Braves had more strikeouts than hits in that game, I’d say a lot of Braves had pretty moronic at-bats.
Smoltz gets the hill tonight so we need to give him some runs support and take home a win. With the Pirates, Natspos, and Giants coming in town we really need to win almost all of our games this homestand so we can gain some confidence for our trip to see the Mets.
petros, refer to post #74
it must really suck to be a red sox fan… $130 mil + and cant compete w/ their rival
I wanted this one too!
I don’t think it makes him more of a team player…. Honestly, I think this move shows that LaRoche didn’t think he could get it done. He so afraid of hitting into a DP that he decided to take the bat out of his own hands. The fact that the method he chose to take himself out was an attempt to help the team is irrelevant. You cannot convince me that a bunt would have helped anything there at all. I’m one of the guys here who likes LaRoche and didn’t have a problem with him as our 1B going into the year, but this decision by him really makes me question his mentality as a ball player.
I mean, Chipper’s a “team player”, but you’re not going to see him go up there and “sacrafice” himself for the “good of the team”. He wants the bat in his hands, and he’s got the confidence and skill and to make something good happen with it.
To me, this decision by LaRoche screams “I don’t want to be the guy!!!!”
Wow the Red Sox are about to get swept in a five game set by the Yankees. Well I guess we will be watching the playoffs with Red Sox fans this year
swept!!! I’m glad for all the annoying Red Sox fans. Too bad I hate the Yanks also.
I hope we can bring out some brooms soon. The streets will be extremely quiet in Boston now!
The AL East sure is a lose-lose division. Wouldn’t it be nice if the Blue Jays went on a big tear.
I thought the Blue Jays might win the division this year. Vernon Wells would be a nice addition to our team, don’t you think?
he would be great and he would also come w/ a big price tag.
I would love to have Vernon Wells….
His current contract isn’t that bad…but when he is a free-agent in 07 he would cost a pretty penny.
Contract:
5-Year worth 14.7M- will make in 2003- 450K + 850K signing bonus, in 2004- 700K, in 2005- 2.9M, in 2006- 4.3M and in 2007- 5.6M- + BONUSES he has received: 50K for 2004 Gold Glove
Is there any news on Tommy Glavine?
What is wrong with kids these days….tisk tisk
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2556053&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines