Andrew jones to the mets for ….Nady, john maine, and royce ring.
That way you get a future closer, who just pitched a no hit inning in the AAA alstar game, nady to replace andrew, maine to help with your rotation. Plus you get to save some cash and put it into your pitching.
Sounds fair to me.
Kyle S
on July 13, 2006 at 10:53 am
man, don’t go crazy. Nady AND Maine? The Braves would have to throw in Betemit + McCann to even out that trade.
—
Can’t wait to read JC’s book!
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 10:54 am
I wouldn’t make any trade with the Mets, unless we got Wright in return and they got Orr and Reitsma
“Fair”? An all-star for Mets flotsam? None of those players is worth anything to speak of.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 10:57 am
Plus our rotation is fine and should only get better. The bull pen has been our undoing
Brian J.
on July 13, 2006 at 10:59 am
1914 Update:
NY Giants 43-30 —
Chicago Cubs 42-36 (3.5 GB)
St. Louis Cardinals 40-39 (6)
Philadelphia Phillies 35-36 (7)
Cincinnati Reds 37-39 (7.5)
Brooklyn Robins 33-37 (8.5)
Pittsburgh Pirates 33-38 (9)
Boston Braves 33-41 (10.5)
Today: Boston wins in St. Louis, 8-7.
Who would the ’14 Braves’ All-Stars have been? Daily boxscores and “up-to-date” satts aren’t available over the Net, so I can’t say for sure. Based on yearly stats, however, these players stand out.
Seattle Bill James and Dick Rudolph both ended the season with 26 wins, tying for second in the league behind Grover Cleveland Alexander. Both would have gone. James also tied for the team lead in (retroactively awarded) saves- with two.
Player-Manager Johnny Evers’ .390 OBP, good for 9th in the league, might have been enough to qualify him at 2B. His .279 average was pretty good in a league batting .251.
But the Braves’ biggest offensive star was Joe Connolly, who hit 306/ 393/ 494 – comparable production to Brian McCann, with a few walks replacing some batting avergae. Like McCann, Connolly was a local, born and raised in Rhode Island. Like McCann, Connolly was in his second year in the bigs.
Unlike McCann, however, Connolly was already 29 when he made his debut. Hopefully also unlike McCann,Connolly would be out of the majors for good after his fourth season.
Thanks for the link, Mac. And thanks for the kind words from everyone. I’m doing my best to make it not suck.
Uncle Charlie
on July 13, 2006 at 11:32 am
I can’t decide what’s funnier, Metstradmus. That you think Nady can “replace” Andruw, or that Maine will do anything for our rotation remotely resembling “help.”
csg
on July 13, 2006 at 11:36 am
how about we dont respond to ignorance, and Metstradmus will go away
drewdat
on July 13, 2006 at 11:36 am
Royce Ring was a future closer in, like, 1998. Perhaps the prophecy meant that he would sire a future closer, and if we allow him to pitch out his minor league career with Richmond, we might have an in with his progeny?
JoshQ
on July 13, 2006 at 11:36 am
HELLO!?! Metstradamus=NYMETS=Danny Kolb Just a programming not to ignore and please do not feed the trolls.
Brian J.
on July 13, 2006 at 11:46 am
Ring is famous as the draftee of the White Sox in the first round of 2002. “You’ve got to be f***ing kidding me!” was Billy Beane’s response as chronicled in Moneyball, as he was euphoric that the White Sox took some high school arm instead of one of the players Beane wanted. Ring has done nothing to change that judgment.
Relievers that are on the Market, of course there are obvious name, but I didn’t know Borowski and Majewski were available.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 12:19 pm
If the Braves get LaTroy Hawkins, Arthur Rhodes, and/or Gary Majewski to close, I think I will become a Reds fan.
Hawkins is the worst closer option ever! He makes Sosa look like Rivera, Kolb like Hoffman, and Reitsma like Gagne. He folds quicker than a guy who got a 2 and a 6 off suit in poker.
csg
on July 13, 2006 at 12:27 pm
just thought it was interesting that Linebrink wasn;t mentioned
bravenewworld
on July 13, 2006 at 12:33 pm
“Relievers that are on the Market, of course there are obvious name, but I didn’t know Borowski and Majewski were available. ”
That’s why the name of the site is tradeRUMORS!
csg
on July 13, 2006 at 12:52 pm
bravenewworld, thanks I wasn’t sure what the name of the site was, but I’m glad you could add something of value here today!
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Borowski might not be a bad pick up. He is cheap, can close, and can close under presure.
csg
on July 13, 2006 at 1:03 pm
I would take him or Williamson, if we get Solomon Torres I will be pissed. Is Williamson still having injury or arm problems?
Ron
on July 13, 2006 at 1:10 pm
Borowski’s era is a bit high, but that could be due to a few really bad outings. I don’t see him as a being much better than Ken Ray. He might even be worse. It’s a bit different closing for a team trying to preserve a streak of 15 straight playoff appearances than it is for a team that traded away all its good players in the offseason and has no expectations this year. He could certainly be a better option than Sosa or Yates though if the Braves don’t overpay in prospects to get him.
Stu
on July 13, 2006 at 1:19 pm
IMO, giving any actual prospects to get Borowski would be overpaying.
csg
on July 13, 2006 at 1:21 pm
They wont take on extra payroll…Maybe they would want our 32 year old AAA catcher and JS JR.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 1:25 pm
Yeah I wouldn’t give up a lot for JoBro, but remember he was the closer on that Cubs playoff team that beat the Braves.
Tanto
on July 13, 2006 at 1:29 pm
I’d like to thank the schedule makers for giving us an off-day when we need it the least. Well done, fellows.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 1:30 pm
Anyone know when Keith Foulk is comming back? The Sox need a fifth starter and Thomson would seem to fit that role perfectly. I know it would be a risk, but at this point what do we have to loose? I mean we are at the end of our rope here.
In my opinion, almost any deal is better than no deal. The Braves suck. “Treading water” is putting it kindly. I’m not saying that I want to trade Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz, I’m just saying that we need to do something, and I want to be convinced that the front office is actually willing to improve the team.
My response to Wilson Betemit for Scott Linebrink? DO IT!
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 1:43 pm
JC-if we buy the book will you sign it before you get a job at ESPN?
Thomson has been ineffective and injured since mid-May. I would think his trade value is probably pretty miniscule at this point. I wouldn’t even want to take a flyer on Foulke, anyway.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 2:00 pm
I think if we released Sosa, someone would pick him up. Maybe it would be someone in front of us.
JoshQ
on July 13, 2006 at 2:11 pm
Considering most teams are in front of us, you’d probably be right smitty. đŸ™‚
I’d be exstatic with a trade of thomson for foulke. Sort of like addition by subtractions while getting a pitcher that needs a change of scenery.
Stu
on July 13, 2006 at 2:14 pm
A pitcher that needs a change of scenery and a couple of new limbs.
JoshQ
on July 13, 2006 at 2:19 pm
Maybe that’s all we need to do, get new limbs for our current bullpen…I’ll try anything at this point.
Brian J.
on July 13, 2006 at 2:26 pm
I honestly doubt anyone would claim Sosa, Smitty, but let’s waive him and find out. The guy has one good year of pitching and five mediocre-to-awful years.
Thomson-for-Foulke sounds reasonable in a “my dung heap for your compost pile” kind of way.
Jason Shiell has pitched well in Richmond since we signed him (3 GS, 1-1, 2.14 ERA, 19 H, 3 BB, 15 K in 21 IP). I think he’s worth a flyer.
I just saw that on another board. And it’s Bray, by the way, not “Greay.” Bill Bray. Probably the only decent piece in the deal. What a terrible trade by the Reds.
Kyle S
on July 13, 2006 at 2:53 pm
smitty, is that a deal that someone made up, or an actual reported deal that just hasn’t hit espn.com yet? i find it incredibly hard to believe.
It seems to be a decent deal for both clubs. The Reds gets some pitching and help on D and the Nats get another outfielder and can now trade Sorriano (hopfully to an AL team)
Uncle Charlie
on July 13, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Interesting trade. Majewski and Bray are both good additions to the Cincy pen, but trading Lopez and Kearns has got to smart a bit. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Ryan Wagner still develop into an excellent reliever, now that he’s out of the Cincy system.
jenny
on July 13, 2006 at 3:01 pm
I just can’t believe Bowden would make such a good trade. He just got two good young offensive talents. Royce Clayton for Felipe Lopez? Are you kidding me? And then Austin Kearns and a solid pitching prospect for dregs from the Natspos’ unspectacular bullpen?
I think Wayne Krivsky just got hosed. He made a deal for the sake of making a deal.
jenny
on July 13, 2006 at 3:02 pm
Oh, and I don’t think Bray is dregs, but I’m not sure about Majewski.
Uncle Charlie
on July 13, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Smitty, that was my first thought too. Kearns fits into Soriano’s OF spot, then they deal Sori to the Angels or someone for prospects.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 3:04 pm
I saw Wagner in AA,he could be great, but he hasn’t been what they hoped he would be.
The Reds needed pitching and a golve and they got both. Did they give up too much? I think it helps out the Reds pen, which is worse than ours.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 3:07 pm
If they send Soriano to the Angels, I wonder if they will get any pitchers. This is just the start of things. It seems as if the Nats are in the process of giving up. Maybe we can get Nick Johnson or work a three team deal for some pitching. I know we are in their division, but you never know
Of course, this effectively sets the price of a middle reliever at an arm and a leg. And Royce Clayton? I think we can forget about the Reds now.
Uncle Charlie
on July 13, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Wagner’s had a lot of injury trouble, not to mention the pressure of being labeled the “closer of the future” at age 21. He has a nasty slider and good gas. He’s still refining his command, but I like his potential.
I think it’s cute that Cincy thinks they are in the running for the wild card. Sure, they’re only 1.5 games back of L.A., but do they really have a chance with their godawful starting pitching? But you gotta respect Krivsky for going for it this year.
Marc
on July 13, 2006 at 3:15 pm
Smitty,
I think you are under the mistaken impression that the Braves think they need an upgrade at first base. Personally, I would love to have Nick Johnson, he is twice the player LaRoche is (albeit injury prone), but I think the Braves like LaRoche–he is cheaper and seems to be improving.
Majewski isn’t bad but he has had some meltdowns and his control has been very erratic this year. I’m not sure he is a guy I would want in a tight situation–I have been out to a number of Nats games and seen him and he has good stuff but can’t always control it. But he is obviously better than what the Reds have. As a Nats fan (behind the Braves), I think this is a great trade for them–I can’t believe the Reds gave up Lopez and Kearns for these guys.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 3:19 pm
Mac’s right. Getting pitching is going to cost us. I guess we are going to have to go with Ray, McBride, and Sosa in the closer’s role.
'Rissa
on July 13, 2006 at 3:23 pm
I’ve always feared Kerns and am not at all excited about seeing him come to the East where we’ll get to see a whole lot more of him.
Also, the Reds already have Juan Castro, and there is an ancient prophesy that if Castro and Clayton are ever on the same roster at the same time, the stadium will sink beneath the earth.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 3:26 pm
There has always been a lot of hype around Kerns and I saw him in AA. He is a good hitter and a great defender, but i think he is over rated. I like him and all, but everyone has been saying how he was going to win batting titles and such. Maybe it is becasue he has been hurt.
JoshQ
on July 13, 2006 at 3:31 pm
Well, what may suck the most about this is that we could have had Kearns for Paronto and Yates. Wink, Wink!!!
Uncle Charlie
on July 13, 2006 at 3:31 pm
Between Kearns, Jose Guillen, and Nick Johnson, they’re sure going to keep the Nats medical staff busy.
Brian J.
on July 13, 2006 at 3:33 pm
Yikes, this is a bad deal for Cincy. Downgrading from Kearns to Freel in the OF and from Lopez to Clayton at SS could easily cost them three or four wins over the rest of this season. And Washington gaines more than that because their OFs other than Soriano have been awful- getting Kearns is a real coup.
And I think Mac and Smitty are right- if this is what teams will expect for OK middle relief, we’re going to have to make do with what we have.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 3:33 pm
You know Clayton has been in the league forever. Remeber when he was brought in to replace Ozzie Smith? I remember when he was called up with the Giants. He has never been a great hitter, but his glove has kept him paid for like 15 years. Crazy
Kyle S
on July 13, 2006 at 3:36 pm
what the hell? This trade is like swapping both your legs for an extra arm. Sure, an extra arm would be nice to have (I guess) but not at the cost of your legs! Kearns AND Felipe Lopez? Are they f*(&ing insane? Sure, their bullpen will be better, but is it really worth it?
Brian J.
on July 13, 2006 at 3:37 pm
Smitty, he’s been hurt a lot and his development was stunted by Cincy pretending that people like Wily Mo Pena and Ruben Mateo deserved to be starters. Washington, if the Nats have any sense at all, will just park him in RF and the 3-hole.
We could have had Kearns- if we were willing to tell Frenchy that he’ll be developing his strike zone judgment in Richmond.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 3:38 pm
I also think this means a deal for Soriano is almost complete. WIth the Astors dealing for Huff, that means they may be out of the Sori Sweeps. The Angels would be ideal. I would jsut ahte to see him end up on the Dodgers, Rockies, or someone in front of us in the wild card
Uncle Charlie
on July 13, 2006 at 3:43 pm
Suddenly Sosa, Ray, and the Vulture are looking pretty good.
Clark
on July 13, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Well, that’s it for the Reds…maybe it means Ryan Freel can play everyday somewhere, but this kills their depth and does not really do anything to improve their bullpen.
Uncle Charlie
on July 13, 2006 at 3:48 pm
OK, so just for kicks, I converted this deal into Braves speak. What do you guys think:
Kearns = Langerhans (Ryan has better D, but Kearns has more pop)
Lopez = Marcus (closest I could come in terms of power/speed combo, thogh Lopez’s glove is clearly what got him traded)
Wagner = Devine
So for Marcus, Langerhans, and Devine we could have added two decent but not great arms for middle relief and some organizational filler. Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don’t make.
Ethan
on July 13, 2006 at 3:54 pm
This is a little late, but CSG posted earlier that JS said “unless we are floored by an offer, both Smoltz and Huddy will be here next year.” Mark Bowman, the author of the article, actually said that, not JS. Just a minor correction, no big deal.
Also, don’t know if this was mentioned yet or not, but Aubrey Huff was traded to the Astros during the break. He’s been playing well the past month. If he has a good second half, that can’t bode well for us in the wildcard race…not that we’re still in it anyway–but I think we are.
If the Rays are dealing, maybe we could get Lugo as our leadoff hitter.
Metstradamus
on July 13, 2006 at 3:57 pm
OK, OK. Heilman, Royce Ring, Victor Diaz…….for John Smoltz.
He does you no good seeing how your not going to make the playoffs and he is getting older. He is due a large amount of money, which you could save and use to shore up your pitching staff. You get a young starter/relief pitcher and a good young pitching prospect. Victor diaz is thrown in just for shits and giggles
PS
ROYCE RING IS A GOOD PLAYER…Go check out his stats in the minor league. he is doing very well. He would be further along but he took 2-3 years away from baseball for church work.He may not be a lights out closer but at the least a solid set up man
csg
on July 13, 2006 at 4:06 pm
troll
Brian J.
on July 13, 2006 at 4:09 pm
Charlie, the scary things are that Kearns is much better than Langerhans (large difference in power, modest difference in D) and Lopez better than Giles (Lopez can play SS well, Giles is a poor defensive 2B).
And using BP’s numbers, JoshQ, Majewski + Bray (17.8 VORP in 78.3 IP) are no better than Paronto + Yates (14.8 VORP in 45 IP).
Cincy’s starting pitching is just as bad as its relief. Reds starters have allowed 309 runs, 4th-most in the NL- and this deal ensures that will not improve.
Actually, Giles is much better at second than Lopez is at short; however, the position adjustment (and Lopez’s contract) are more than enough to overcome that. Kelly Johnson, if healthy, might have been able to put up Kearns-type numbers this year, but Langerhans isn’t that good.
On the other hand, that package should be enough to retrieve someone like Majewski plus. That it won’t be is because the Reds have poisoned the market.
If I was Cincy I would not have done that deal…
They’re giving up alot and not really improving themselves THAT much.
dans
on July 13, 2006 at 4:20 pm
lets go after Lidge. We have tried so called good closers only to see them lose it once they get to Atlanta. This time lets take a head-case and try to bring him back to what he once was.
Tennessee Brave
on July 13, 2006 at 4:25 pm
Yankees have signed Sidney Ponson. I thought the Cardinals were morons for getting him this offseason, and I don’t think he’ll do any better in New York.
csg
on July 13, 2006 at 4:27 pm
Lets send Thomson to the Reds and see what we could get. Maybe Freel..
I think we should trade Marcus and Pete Orr for Chad Cordero. This way we get pitching and Jim Bowden gets second basemen. Everyone will be happy.
Brian J.
on July 13, 2006 at 4:56 pm
Sounds like a plan, Alex. Maybe we can trade LaRoche to Chicago for Scott Eyre, or to Seattle for Rafael Soriano or Putz. They need half-decent 1Bs.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 4:58 pm
AAR, I wish!
Jeremy
on July 13, 2006 at 5:05 pm
Call me crazy, but I wouldn’t trade Marcus for Cordero.
Parish
on July 13, 2006 at 5:06 pm
Apparently trading with the Reds is a good idea. We should wait until the end of the month when they will be ten games back and then trade some bat splinters for Guardado.
Mac–KJ was my first thought too for a Kearns clone in Atlanta, but I wanted to go with someone who was healthy for comparison’s sake. Plus, I think Ryan and Kearns are closer than they might appear. They two have similar OBPs, and some portion of the 100 point difference in slugging’s got to be Cincy’s park effects. Part of the rest is made up by Ryan’s better than average D (and poorer than average D from Kearns). At least, that was my thinking.
Also, I am hopeful that this doesn’t completely poison the market for MR help, because a) Krivksy’s an idiot; b) he had his hands tied because he moved early (GMs will realize that the price goes down as people wait longer), and c) people will assume this is just karmic payback for all the unbelievably bad trades Trader Jim has made over the years.
I still like Williamson from that list. And if the first article you sent is right and we can take on some money, that is a real possibility. According to ESPN, he’s got $1M left on his one-year deal. The Cubs want someone to eat Pierre’s contract too, and he’s got about $3M left on his deal. So we get the leadoff guy we want and help in the pen, although it would probably cost us pretty dearly. I’d say something like Langerhans, Yunel Escobar, Lerew or Beau Jones and some cash could get it done.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 6:37 pm
Juan Pierre had only better be comming to Atlanta in a visiting uniform
Ronnie Belliard is looking cool in that pic though…
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 6:42 pm
I hate Juan Pierre, he can’t hit for sh**. His defense sucks, the only the he can do is steal bases and he can’t even do that because he can’t get on base.
I’d love to get Javy back. A backup catcher who can hit and work with young pitchers? Whatta concept!
And I’d add Damaso Marte to the list of guys who seem like good pickups to the pen that shouldn’t empty the vault- unless every GM thinks he’s Jim Bowden, as now seems likely.
Add me to the list of people who think that if John Schuerholz is even considering Juan Pierre, his blood alcohol must be at several times his kid’s batting average.
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 7:17 pm
LOL, Brian J.
LanceinFL
on July 13, 2006 at 7:18 pm
“Add me to the list of people who think that if John Schuerholz is even considering Juan Pierre, his blood alcohol must be at several times his kid’s batting average. ” Best line EVER.
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 7:26 pm
There was a rumor on satellite radio 2 days ago that the Braves and Angels were discussing a trade involving Andruw Jones. The Angels would get Jones, the Braves would get Joe Saunders, Dallas McPherson, and Eric Aybar.
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 7:26 pm
to the braves:
adam wainwright SP/RP
rico washington 3B
john gall OF
Stuart Pomeranz SP
to the cardinals:
edgar renteria SS
andruw jones CF/OF
Oscar Villarreal RP
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 7:27 pm
These both found on ESPN braves message board….both don’t make any sense to me!
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 7:42 pm
A lot of message boards have great trade rumors like:
Willy Moe Pena to the Braves and Smoltz and Andruw to the Sox
Well living in St.Louis I have to hear all the time that Andruw is coming to the Cardnials for Mark Mulder. I just posted those trade rumors because I read them and I laughed and because they involved the Braves.
Cary
on July 13, 2006 at 7:50 pm
Re: Wayne Krivsky, Cincinnati Reds GM = idiot
… or diabolical genius! He’s now effectively destroyed the market for middle relief by atom bombing it with just under 3 weeks until the trade deadline. ahahahahahaha
The Reds had the offense to give and got a little better in the bullpen, maybe, but mostly they keep all of the other contenders for the NL Wild Card from improving. How utterly Machiavellian!
(just kidding–it was a terrible deal for the Reds. Hooray Nats! (in your best Red Stripe voice). The Braves are my #1, but being an actual resident of The District of Columbia, the Nats are now #2, and I didn’t think it’d get awkward this quickly!)
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 7:51 pm
I don’t know about every one else but I have 1 team and 1 team only.
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 8:00 pm
Smitty that is hilarious!!
Brian J.
on July 13, 2006 at 8:00 pm
Watching ESPN2’s Oakland-Boston game, which just aired one of the Home Depot ads featuring John Smoltz, and I got to wondering what it would look like if it were reflective of this season:
Smoltz twiddling with his barbecue grill
Announcer 1: “Smoltz is having a bit of an equipment problem out there. Can’t make out exactly what it is, if it’s his glove or his spike…”
Announcer 2: “He looks to the dugout, where help is on the way.”
Guy runs in from left with beaten-up looking grill, hauls away original grill.
Announcer 1: “Well, let’s see how this works out…”
Smoltz lights match, drops it into new grill… which immediately explodes.
Announcer 2: “Well, this isn’t quite what Smoltz was hoping for, I’m sure.”
Smoltz emerges from wreckage covered in soot and ash.
Announcer 1: “Tune in tomorrow, folks.”
Metstradamus
on July 13, 2006 at 8:01 pm
From mlb.com
The other pitcher is a long shot, but what contender wouldn’t look long and hard if the Braves made John Smoltz available. Minaya in known to consider Smoltz the ideal acquistion. And former Brave Tom Glavine wouldn’t say no to an October reunion tour with his buddy
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 8:04 pm
Washington could be a starter everynight and go nine too. His ERA would be -0.01 he would hit a home run everynight, so he would get the one run he needed.
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 8:04 pm
Metstradamus you just don’t stop do you?
Jay
on July 13, 2006 at 8:10 pm
This was mentioned in jest earlier, but now that the market for relievers is officially ridiculous, maybe the Braves can trade away some bullpen arms. If Majewski gets you Kearns, what might Ken Ray be worth? The big names get lots of rumor mentions, but if you got offered something decent for Ray, wouldn’t you take it?
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 8:12 pm
It would have to be a little more than decent, at this point Ken Ray is the only guy we can count on to hold a lead.
Smitty
on July 13, 2006 at 8:18 pm
We should trade Andruw, Chipper, and Smotlz for Washington. That woudl be a great deal
Brian J.
on July 13, 2006 at 8:28 pm
Jay, we could have done that more effectively if we’d given Ray more of a chance to accumulate saves with which to entrance other GMs. Instead, we had Chris Reitsma and then Jorge Sosa inducing nausea.
Might as well try it, though. Hard to lose a trade when you’re trading away garbage.
flournoy
on July 13, 2006 at 8:30 pm
It would have to be a little more than decent, at this point Ken Ray is the only guy we can count on to hold a lead.
Who cares? Should the Braves hang on to Ken Ray in hopes of finishing in third place instead of fourth? If the Braves get anything of value offered for Ken Ray, they’d be fools to turn it down.
Jay
on July 13, 2006 at 8:31 pm
Ok, if Ray is the difference between making the playoffs or not, then I say keep him — but that’s not gonna happen. On the other hand, if Ray is the difference between finishing 3rd or 4th in the division (which is closer to the truth), then why hold him? If the market for relievers is really this crazy, then we could get something that would help next year.
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 8:37 pm
I never said that Ray is the difference between making the playoffs. All I said was I wouldn’t give him up for just anyone right now, if we trade the only man in our “bullpen” that isn’t failing horribley for just anyone than it wouldn’t put us in a better spot than we are in now.
Jay
on July 13, 2006 at 8:45 pm
It’s the difference between playing for this year or starting to play for 2007 . . . If you can make next year’s team better by trading Ray now, then you do it. No matter how many games we lose this year, we start next season even with every other club.
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 8:53 pm
I am not against making the team better in 07, but I don’t see any team trading another pitcher for a pitcher and we really don’t have a need for a position player(except for a lead off hitter)
Jay
on July 13, 2006 at 8:59 pm
There’s plenty of ways to improve outside of pitching, like a better left fielder. If we could have added Kearns and made Langerhans our 4th outfielder, that would be improvement.
Jay10
on July 13, 2006 at 9:01 pm
We get Kelly Johnson back next year, there is no guarntee that he will be as good as he is projected to be but he is still an approvment offensively.
Jay
on July 13, 2006 at 9:04 pm
And while the all-Jay message board has been fun, I’ve got to check out for the night.
Looking forward to the start of the second half. I hope we can actually make a run at the WC. If we were able to somehow make the playoffs after that first half, then it would be a really fun ride. goodnight.
cant tell which board people want to comment on but my quick take on the Reds deal:
The Nats took them. The Reds were desperate to compete in a wide open NL WC race and desperately needed any relief help and felt they had an excess of hitters, which they do.
I think Freel is more versatile then Kearns but you get more for Kearns, if you are going to deal a power stud like that.
Clayton is a huge downgrade from Lopez.
The bottom line is the deal doesn’t really hurt the Reds per say because the team has a deep resevoir of offense, but it’s a terrible trade and as Cary said, sets a bad precedent and pulls the market for middle relievers way down.
I didn’t think the Reds could stay in the race unless they get another starting pitcher–the only way they stay is with another starter.
Re: Ponson
Oh, yeah, Yankees, let’s just ship the world series trophy to NY now. What a dumba– move. Ponson is a fat idiot and he stinks. The Yankees just think anyone can come in and play. Ridiculous.
PaulV
on July 13, 2006 at 10:55 pm
Kearns stats look better because the Reds dinky stadium has high park factor
Dan
on July 13, 2006 at 11:29 pm
Here is my fear, from another member in the previous thread:
“Jay, we have been talking about the same problem since last October. So, you will probably not see any significant acquisition made by JS until the deadline coming at the end of this month, which means another month of torture and may possibly be too late for an acquisition by then.”
This is what I’ve been worried about. Schuerholz said that he would wait until the all-star break and see if the Braves got better or worse. Well that’s gone now. My fear is he’ll wait longer to see if the Braves stay hot or cool off, which means he could wait until right at the trade deadline, and by then the Braves’ bullpen could easily have blown three or four eighth or ninth inning one or two run leads. Stop twidiling your thumbs Mr. Schuerholz and get a closer.
I think we should trade for Kevin Mench. The way I see it, anyone who can lose his outfield job to Mark DeRosa must be something special.
Dan
on July 13, 2006 at 11:42 pm
That article makes it really sound like Marcus Giles is all but gone.
And I cannot believe anyone would be talking about getting starting pitching over bullpen help. What Braves’ games have some of you been watching?
jenny
on July 13, 2006 at 11:57 pm
Sidney Ponson in pinstripes is going to be the funniest picture since the shot of Michael Dukakis in that tank in 1988. Out of place and mildly revolting.
Dan
on July 14, 2006 at 12:23 am
Ray is not going to be traded.
Couldn’t he be on the team in 2007? I don’t get why trading him means being better in 2007.
Dan
on July 14, 2006 at 1:37 am
James Dobson of Focus on the Family opposes the sell of the Braves to liberty media and is urging the organization’s members and followers to urge MLB to reject the deal. But it may not be for the reason you’d expect.
Do we get a discount?
Just the Amazon discount (which is almost 40 percent). And I’d get a cut.
Can we get JC to come on and tell us about the book (like he is on Good Morrning America)?
JS article about trading this year at the deadline. He states, “unless we are floored by an offer, both Smoltz and Huddy will be here next year.”
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060704&content_id=1538159&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
Andrew jones to the mets for ….Nady, john maine, and royce ring.
That way you get a future closer, who just pitched a no hit inning in the AAA alstar game, nady to replace andrew, maine to help with your rotation. Plus you get to save some cash and put it into your pitching.
Sounds fair to me.
man, don’t go crazy. Nady AND Maine? The Braves would have to throw in Betemit + McCann to even out that trade.
—
Can’t wait to read JC’s book!
I wouldn’t make any trade with the Mets, unless we got Wright in return and they got Orr and Reitsma
“Fair”? An all-star for Mets flotsam? None of those players is worth anything to speak of.
Plus our rotation is fine and should only get better. The bull pen has been our undoing
1914 Update:
NY Giants 43-30 —
Chicago Cubs 42-36 (3.5 GB)
St. Louis Cardinals 40-39 (6)
Philadelphia Phillies 35-36 (7)
Cincinnati Reds 37-39 (7.5)
Brooklyn Robins 33-37 (8.5)
Pittsburgh Pirates 33-38 (9)
Boston Braves 33-41 (10.5)
Today: Boston wins in St. Louis, 8-7.
Who would the ’14 Braves’ All-Stars have been? Daily boxscores and “up-to-date” satts aren’t available over the Net, so I can’t say for sure. Based on yearly stats, however, these players stand out.
Seattle Bill James and Dick Rudolph both ended the season with 26 wins, tying for second in the league behind Grover Cleveland Alexander. Both would have gone. James also tied for the team lead in (retroactively awarded) saves- with two.
Player-Manager Johnny Evers’ .390 OBP, good for 9th in the league, might have been enough to qualify him at 2B. His .279 average was pretty good in a league batting .251.
But the Braves’ biggest offensive star was Joe Connolly, who hit 306/ 393/ 494 – comparable production to Brian McCann, with a few walks replacing some batting avergae. Like McCann, Connolly was a local, born and raised in Rhode Island. Like McCann, Connolly was in his second year in the bigs.
Unlike McCann, however, Connolly was already 29 when he made his debut. Hopefully also unlike McCann,Connolly would be out of the majors for good after his fourth season.
Thanks for the link, Mac. And thanks for the kind words from everyone. I’m doing my best to make it not suck.
I can’t decide what’s funnier, Metstradmus. That you think Nady can “replace” Andruw, or that Maine will do anything for our rotation remotely resembling “help.”
how about we dont respond to ignorance, and Metstradmus will go away
Royce Ring was a future closer in, like, 1998. Perhaps the prophecy meant that he would sire a future closer, and if we allow him to pitch out his minor league career with Richmond, we might have an in with his progeny?
HELLO!?! Metstradamus=NYMETS=Danny Kolb Just a programming not to ignore and please do not feed the trolls.
Ring is famous as the draftee of the White Sox in the first round of 2002. “You’ve got to be f***ing kidding me!” was Billy Beane’s response as chronicled in Moneyball, as he was euphoric that the White Sox took some high school arm instead of one of the players Beane wanted. Ring has done nothing to change that judgment.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/07/relievers_on_th.html
Relievers that are on the Market, of course there are obvious name, but I didn’t know Borowski and Majewski were available.
If the Braves get LaTroy Hawkins, Arthur Rhodes, and/or Gary Majewski to close, I think I will become a Reds fan.
Hawkins is the worst closer option ever! He makes Sosa look like Rivera, Kolb like Hoffman, and Reitsma like Gagne. He folds quicker than a guy who got a 2 and a 6 off suit in poker.
just thought it was interesting that Linebrink wasn;t mentioned
“Relievers that are on the Market, of course there are obvious name, but I didn’t know Borowski and Majewski were available. ”
That’s why the name of the site is tradeRUMORS!
bravenewworld, thanks I wasn’t sure what the name of the site was, but I’m glad you could add something of value here today!
Borowski might not be a bad pick up. He is cheap, can close, and can close under presure.
I would take him or Williamson, if we get Solomon Torres I will be pissed. Is Williamson still having injury or arm problems?
Borowski’s era is a bit high, but that could be due to a few really bad outings. I don’t see him as a being much better than Ken Ray. He might even be worse. It’s a bit different closing for a team trying to preserve a streak of 15 straight playoff appearances than it is for a team that traded away all its good players in the offseason and has no expectations this year. He could certainly be a better option than Sosa or Yates though if the Braves don’t overpay in prospects to get him.
IMO, giving any actual prospects to get Borowski would be overpaying.
They wont take on extra payroll…Maybe they would want our 32 year old AAA catcher and JS JR.
Yeah I wouldn’t give up a lot for JoBro, but remember he was the closer on that Cubs playoff team that beat the Braves.
I’d like to thank the schedule makers for giving us an off-day when we need it the least. Well done, fellows.
Anyone know when Keith Foulk is comming back? The Sox need a fifth starter and Thomson would seem to fit that role perfectly. I know it would be a risk, but at this point what do we have to loose? I mean we are at the end of our rope here.
In my opinion, almost any deal is better than no deal. The Braves suck. “Treading water” is putting it kindly. I’m not saying that I want to trade Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz, I’m just saying that we need to do something, and I want to be convinced that the front office is actually willing to improve the team.
My response to Wilson Betemit for Scott Linebrink? DO IT!
JC-if we buy the book will you sign it before you get a job at ESPN?
update on Stockman
http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/0713stockman.html
would you release Sosa to bring him back
Thomson has been ineffective and injured since mid-May. I would think his trade value is probably pretty miniscule at this point. I wouldn’t even want to take a flyer on Foulke, anyway.
I think if we released Sosa, someone would pick him up. Maybe it would be someone in front of us.
Considering most teams are in front of us, you’d probably be right smitty. đŸ™‚
I’d be exstatic with a trade of thomson for foulke. Sort of like addition by subtractions while getting a pitcher that needs a change of scenery.
A pitcher that needs a change of scenery and a couple of new limbs.
Maybe that’s all we need to do, get new limbs for our current bullpen…I’ll try anything at this point.
I honestly doubt anyone would claim Sosa, Smitty, but let’s waive him and find out. The guy has one good year of pitching and five mediocre-to-awful years.
Thomson-for-Foulke sounds reasonable in a “my dung heap for your compost pile” kind of way.
Jason Shiell has pitched well in Richmond since we signed him (3 GS, 1-1, 2.14 ERA, 19 H, 3 BB, 15 K in 21 IP). I think he’s worth a flyer.
Reds and Nats 8 player deal
Reds get: Majewski, Greay, Clayton, Harris, Thompson
Nats get: Lopez, Kerns, Wagner
as heard on ESPN radio
I just saw that on another board. And it’s Bray, by the way, not “Greay.” Bill Bray. Probably the only decent piece in the deal. What a terrible trade by the Reds.
smitty, is that a deal that someone made up, or an actual reported deal that just hasn’t hit espn.com yet? i find it incredibly hard to believe.
Sorry, had to write it fast. Here is the link
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2518314
It seems to be a decent deal for both clubs. The Reds gets some pitching and help on D and the Nats get another outfielder and can now trade Sorriano (hopfully to an AL team)
Interesting trade. Majewski and Bray are both good additions to the Cincy pen, but trading Lopez and Kearns has got to smart a bit. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Ryan Wagner still develop into an excellent reliever, now that he’s out of the Cincy system.
I just can’t believe Bowden would make such a good trade. He just got two good young offensive talents. Royce Clayton for Felipe Lopez? Are you kidding me? And then Austin Kearns and a solid pitching prospect for dregs from the Natspos’ unspectacular bullpen?
I think Wayne Krivsky just got hosed. He made a deal for the sake of making a deal.
Oh, and I don’t think Bray is dregs, but I’m not sure about Majewski.
Smitty, that was my first thought too. Kearns fits into Soriano’s OF spot, then they deal Sori to the Angels or someone for prospects.
I saw Wagner in AA,he could be great, but he hasn’t been what they hoped he would be.
The Reds needed pitching and a golve and they got both. Did they give up too much? I think it helps out the Reds pen, which is worse than ours.
If they send Soriano to the Angels, I wonder if they will get any pitchers. This is just the start of things. It seems as if the Nats are in the process of giving up. Maybe we can get Nick Johnson or work a three team deal for some pitching. I know we are in their division, but you never know
Of course, this effectively sets the price of a middle reliever at an arm and a leg. And Royce Clayton? I think we can forget about the Reds now.
Wagner’s had a lot of injury trouble, not to mention the pressure of being labeled the “closer of the future” at age 21. He has a nasty slider and good gas. He’s still refining his command, but I like his potential.
I think it’s cute that Cincy thinks they are in the running for the wild card. Sure, they’re only 1.5 games back of L.A., but do they really have a chance with their godawful starting pitching? But you gotta respect Krivsky for going for it this year.
Smitty,
I think you are under the mistaken impression that the Braves think they need an upgrade at first base. Personally, I would love to have Nick Johnson, he is twice the player LaRoche is (albeit injury prone), but I think the Braves like LaRoche–he is cheaper and seems to be improving.
Majewski isn’t bad but he has had some meltdowns and his control has been very erratic this year. I’m not sure he is a guy I would want in a tight situation–I have been out to a number of Nats games and seen him and he has good stuff but can’t always control it. But he is obviously better than what the Reds have. As a Nats fan (behind the Braves), I think this is a great trade for them–I can’t believe the Reds gave up Lopez and Kearns for these guys.
Mac’s right. Getting pitching is going to cost us. I guess we are going to have to go with Ray, McBride, and Sosa in the closer’s role.
I’ve always feared Kerns and am not at all excited about seeing him come to the East where we’ll get to see a whole lot more of him.
Also, the Reds already have Juan Castro, and there is an ancient prophesy that if Castro and Clayton are ever on the same roster at the same time, the stadium will sink beneath the earth.
There has always been a lot of hype around Kerns and I saw him in AA. He is a good hitter and a great defender, but i think he is over rated. I like him and all, but everyone has been saying how he was going to win batting titles and such. Maybe it is becasue he has been hurt.
Well, what may suck the most about this is that we could have had Kearns for Paronto and Yates. Wink, Wink!!!
Between Kearns, Jose Guillen, and Nick Johnson, they’re sure going to keep the Nats medical staff busy.
Yikes, this is a bad deal for Cincy. Downgrading from Kearns to Freel in the OF and from Lopez to Clayton at SS could easily cost them three or four wins over the rest of this season. And Washington gaines more than that because their OFs other than Soriano have been awful- getting Kearns is a real coup.
And I think Mac and Smitty are right- if this is what teams will expect for OK middle relief, we’re going to have to make do with what we have.
You know Clayton has been in the league forever. Remeber when he was brought in to replace Ozzie Smith? I remember when he was called up with the Giants. He has never been a great hitter, but his glove has kept him paid for like 15 years. Crazy
what the hell? This trade is like swapping both your legs for an extra arm. Sure, an extra arm would be nice to have (I guess) but not at the cost of your legs! Kearns AND Felipe Lopez? Are they f*(&ing insane? Sure, their bullpen will be better, but is it really worth it?
Smitty, he’s been hurt a lot and his development was stunted by Cincy pretending that people like Wily Mo Pena and Ruben Mateo deserved to be starters. Washington, if the Nats have any sense at all, will just park him in RF and the 3-hole.
We could have had Kearns- if we were willing to tell Frenchy that he’ll be developing his strike zone judgment in Richmond.
I also think this means a deal for Soriano is almost complete. WIth the Astors dealing for Huff, that means they may be out of the Sori Sweeps. The Angels would be ideal. I would jsut ahte to see him end up on the Dodgers, Rockies, or someone in front of us in the wild card
Suddenly Sosa, Ray, and the Vulture are looking pretty good.
Well, that’s it for the Reds…maybe it means Ryan Freel can play everyday somewhere, but this kills their depth and does not really do anything to improve their bullpen.
OK, so just for kicks, I converted this deal into Braves speak. What do you guys think:
Kearns = Langerhans (Ryan has better D, but Kearns has more pop)
Lopez = Marcus (closest I could come in terms of power/speed combo, thogh Lopez’s glove is clearly what got him traded)
Wagner = Devine
So for Marcus, Langerhans, and Devine we could have added two decent but not great arms for middle relief and some organizational filler. Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don’t make.
This is a little late, but CSG posted earlier that JS said “unless we are floored by an offer, both Smoltz and Huddy will be here next year.” Mark Bowman, the author of the article, actually said that, not JS. Just a minor correction, no big deal.
Also, don’t know if this was mentioned yet or not, but Aubrey Huff was traded to the Astros during the break. He’s been playing well the past month. If he has a good second half, that can’t bode well for us in the wildcard race…not that we’re still in it anyway–but I think we are.
If the Rays are dealing, maybe we could get Lugo as our leadoff hitter.
OK, OK. Heilman, Royce Ring, Victor Diaz…….for John Smoltz.
He does you no good seeing how your not going to make the playoffs and he is getting older. He is due a large amount of money, which you could save and use to shore up your pitching staff. You get a young starter/relief pitcher and a good young pitching prospect. Victor diaz is thrown in just for shits and giggles
PS
ROYCE RING IS A GOOD PLAYER…Go check out his stats in the minor league. he is doing very well. He would be further along but he took 2-3 years away from baseball for church work.He may not be a lights out closer but at the least a solid set up man
troll
Charlie, the scary things are that Kearns is much better than Langerhans (large difference in power, modest difference in D) and Lopez better than Giles (Lopez can play SS well, Giles is a poor defensive 2B).
And using BP’s numbers, JoshQ, Majewski + Bray (17.8 VORP in 78.3 IP) are no better than Paronto + Yates (14.8 VORP in 45 IP).
Cincy’s starting pitching is just as bad as its relief. Reds starters have allowed 309 runs, 4th-most in the NL- and this deal ensures that will not improve.
Actually, Giles is much better at second than Lopez is at short; however, the position adjustment (and Lopez’s contract) are more than enough to overcome that. Kelly Johnson, if healthy, might have been able to put up Kearns-type numbers this year, but Langerhans isn’t that good.
On the other hand, that package should be enough to retrieve someone like Majewski plus. That it won’t be is because the Reds have poisoned the market.
If I was Cincy I would not have done that deal…
They’re giving up alot and not really improving themselves THAT much.
lets go after Lidge. We have tried so called good closers only to see them lose it once they get to Atlanta. This time lets take a head-case and try to bring him back to what he once was.
Yankees have signed Sidney Ponson. I thought the Cardinals were morons for getting him this offseason, and I don’t think he’ll do any better in New York.
Lets send Thomson to the Reds and see what we could get. Maybe Freel..
Maybe if we offer Cincy Sosa and Villareal, they’ll give us Dunn and Freel…
I think we should trade Marcus and Pete Orr for Chad Cordero. This way we get pitching and Jim Bowden gets second basemen. Everyone will be happy.
Sounds like a plan, Alex. Maybe we can trade LaRoche to Chicago for Scott Eyre, or to Seattle for Rafael Soriano or Putz. They need half-decent 1Bs.
AAR, I wish!
Call me crazy, but I wouldn’t trade Marcus for Cordero.
Apparently trading with the Reds is a good idea. We should wait until the end of the month when they will be ten games back and then trade some bat splinters for Guardado.
Wow, Jim Bowden made a pretty good trade. Nice.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060704&content_id=1538159&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
Mac–KJ was my first thought too for a Kearns clone in Atlanta, but I wanted to go with someone who was healthy for comparison’s sake. Plus, I think Ryan and Kearns are closer than they might appear. They two have similar OBPs, and some portion of the 100 point difference in slugging’s got to be Cincy’s park effects. Part of the rest is made up by Ryan’s better than average D (and poorer than average D from Kearns). At least, that was my thinking.
Also, I am hopeful that this doesn’t completely poison the market for MR help, because a) Krivksy’s an idiot; b) he had his hands tied because he moved early (GMs will realize that the price goes down as people wait longer), and c) people will assume this is just karmic payback for all the unbelievably bad trades Trader Jim has made over the years.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060707&content_id=1544616&vkey=news_mlb_nd&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Alot of interesting names on this list.
I still like Williamson from that list. And if the first article you sent is right and we can take on some money, that is a real possibility. According to ESPN, he’s got $1M left on his one-year deal. The Cubs want someone to eat Pierre’s contract too, and he’s got about $3M left on his deal. So we get the leadoff guy we want and help in the pen, although it would probably cost us pretty dearly. I’d say something like Langerhans, Yunel Escobar, Lerew or Beau Jones and some cash could get it done.
Juan Pierre had only better be comming to Atlanta in a visiting uniform
Ronnie Belliard is looking cool in that pic though…
I hate Juan Pierre, he can’t hit for sh**. His defense sucks, the only the he can do is steal bases and he can’t even do that because he can’t get on base.
Maybe you’ve already seen this, and I don’t know why I’m posting this…but Jeffrey is in it..and his story was akward yet amusing.
http://www.snobsvsslobs.com/?page_id=340
The All-Star break does strange things to people.
I’d love to get Javy back. A backup catcher who can hit and work with young pitchers? Whatta concept!
And I’d add Damaso Marte to the list of guys who seem like good pickups to the pen that shouldn’t empty the vault- unless every GM thinks he’s Jim Bowden, as now seems likely.
Add me to the list of people who think that if John Schuerholz is even considering Juan Pierre, his blood alcohol must be at several times his kid’s batting average.
LOL, Brian J.
“Add me to the list of people who think that if John Schuerholz is even considering Juan Pierre, his blood alcohol must be at several times his kid’s batting average. ” Best line EVER.
There was a rumor on satellite radio 2 days ago that the Braves and Angels were discussing a trade involving Andruw Jones. The Angels would get Jones, the Braves would get Joe Saunders, Dallas McPherson, and Eric Aybar.
to the braves:
adam wainwright SP/RP
rico washington 3B
john gall OF
Stuart Pomeranz SP
to the cardinals:
edgar renteria SS
andruw jones CF/OF
Oscar Villarreal RP
These both found on ESPN braves message board….both don’t make any sense to me!
A lot of message boards have great trade rumors like:
Willy Moe Pena to the Braves and Smoltz and Andruw to the Sox
HAHAHAHAHA
this is who we need to get
http://cracked.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=439
Well living in St.Louis I have to hear all the time that Andruw is coming to the Cardnials for Mark Mulder. I just posted those trade rumors because I read them and I laughed and because they involved the Braves.
Re: Wayne Krivsky, Cincinnati Reds GM = idiot
… or diabolical genius! He’s now effectively destroyed the market for middle relief by atom bombing it with just under 3 weeks until the trade deadline. ahahahahahaha
The Reds had the offense to give and got a little better in the bullpen, maybe, but mostly they keep all of the other contenders for the NL Wild Card from improving. How utterly Machiavellian!
(just kidding–it was a terrible deal for the Reds. Hooray Nats! (in your best Red Stripe voice). The Braves are my #1, but being an actual resident of The District of Columbia, the Nats are now #2, and I didn’t think it’d get awkward this quickly!)
I don’t know about every one else but I have 1 team and 1 team only.
Smitty that is hilarious!!
Watching ESPN2’s Oakland-Boston game, which just aired one of the Home Depot ads featuring John Smoltz, and I got to wondering what it would look like if it were reflective of this season:
Smoltz twiddling with his barbecue grill
Announcer 1: “Smoltz is having a bit of an equipment problem out there. Can’t make out exactly what it is, if it’s his glove or his spike…”
Announcer 2: “He looks to the dugout, where help is on the way.”
Guy runs in from left with beaten-up looking grill, hauls away original grill.
Announcer 1: “Well, let’s see how this works out…”
Smoltz lights match, drops it into new grill… which immediately explodes.
Announcer 2: “Well, this isn’t quite what Smoltz was hoping for, I’m sure.”
Smoltz emerges from wreckage covered in soot and ash.
Announcer 1: “Tune in tomorrow, folks.”
From mlb.com
The other pitcher is a long shot, but what contender wouldn’t look long and hard if the Braves made John Smoltz available. Minaya in known to consider Smoltz the ideal acquistion. And former Brave Tom Glavine wouldn’t say no to an October reunion tour with his buddy
Washington could be a starter everynight and go nine too. His ERA would be -0.01 he would hit a home run everynight, so he would get the one run he needed.
Metstradamus you just don’t stop do you?
This was mentioned in jest earlier, but now that the market for relievers is officially ridiculous, maybe the Braves can trade away some bullpen arms. If Majewski gets you Kearns, what might Ken Ray be worth? The big names get lots of rumor mentions, but if you got offered something decent for Ray, wouldn’t you take it?
It would have to be a little more than decent, at this point Ken Ray is the only guy we can count on to hold a lead.
We should trade Andruw, Chipper, and Smotlz for Washington. That woudl be a great deal
Jay, we could have done that more effectively if we’d given Ray more of a chance to accumulate saves with which to entrance other GMs. Instead, we had Chris Reitsma and then Jorge Sosa inducing nausea.
Might as well try it, though. Hard to lose a trade when you’re trading away garbage.
Who cares? Should the Braves hang on to Ken Ray in hopes of finishing in third place instead of fourth? If the Braves get anything of value offered for Ken Ray, they’d be fools to turn it down.
Ok, if Ray is the difference between making the playoffs or not, then I say keep him — but that’s not gonna happen. On the other hand, if Ray is the difference between finishing 3rd or 4th in the division (which is closer to the truth), then why hold him? If the market for relievers is really this crazy, then we could get something that would help next year.
I never said that Ray is the difference between making the playoffs. All I said was I wouldn’t give him up for just anyone right now, if we trade the only man in our “bullpen” that isn’t failing horribley for just anyone than it wouldn’t put us in a better spot than we are in now.
It’s the difference between playing for this year or starting to play for 2007 . . . If you can make next year’s team better by trading Ray now, then you do it. No matter how many games we lose this year, we start next season even with every other club.
I am not against making the team better in 07, but I don’t see any team trading another pitcher for a pitcher and we really don’t have a need for a position player(except for a lead off hitter)
There’s plenty of ways to improve outside of pitching, like a better left fielder. If we could have added Kearns and made Langerhans our 4th outfielder, that would be improvement.
We get Kelly Johnson back next year, there is no guarntee that he will be as good as he is projected to be but he is still an approvment offensively.
And while the all-Jay message board has been fun, I’ve got to check out for the night.
Looking forward to the start of the second half. I hope we can actually make a run at the WC. If we were able to somehow make the playoffs after that first half, then it would be a really fun ride. goodnight.
Yea see tomorrow.
cant tell which board people want to comment on but my quick take on the Reds deal:
The Nats took them. The Reds were desperate to compete in a wide open NL WC race and desperately needed any relief help and felt they had an excess of hitters, which they do.
I think Freel is more versatile then Kearns but you get more for Kearns, if you are going to deal a power stud like that.
Clayton is a huge downgrade from Lopez.
The bottom line is the deal doesn’t really hurt the Reds per say because the team has a deep resevoir of offense, but it’s a terrible trade and as Cary said, sets a bad precedent and pulls the market for middle relievers way down.
I didn’t think the Reds could stay in the race unless they get another starting pitcher–the only way they stay is with another starter.
Re: Ponson
Oh, yeah, Yankees, let’s just ship the world series trophy to NY now. What a dumba– move. Ponson is a fat idiot and he stinks. The Yankees just think anyone can come in and play. Ridiculous.
Kearns stats look better because the Reds dinky stadium has high park factor
Here is my fear, from another member in the previous thread:
“Jay, we have been talking about the same problem since last October. So, you will probably not see any significant acquisition made by JS until the deadline coming at the end of this month, which means another month of torture and may possibly be too late for an acquisition by then.”
This is what I’ve been worried about. Schuerholz said that he would wait until the all-star break and see if the Braves got better or worse. Well that’s gone now. My fear is he’ll wait longer to see if the Braves stay hot or cool off, which means he could wait until right at the trade deadline, and by then the Braves’ bullpen could easily have blown three or four eighth or ninth inning one or two run leads. Stop twidiling your thumbs Mr. Schuerholz and get a closer.
I think we should trade for Kevin Mench. The way I see it, anyone who can lose his outfield job to Mark DeRosa must be something special.
That article makes it really sound like Marcus Giles is all but gone.
And I cannot believe anyone would be talking about getting starting pitching over bullpen help. What Braves’ games have some of you been watching?
Sidney Ponson in pinstripes is going to be the funniest picture since the shot of Michael Dukakis in that tank in 1988. Out of place and mildly revolting.
Ray is not going to be traded.
Couldn’t he be on the team in 2007? I don’t get why trading him means being better in 2007.
James Dobson of Focus on the Family opposes the sell of the Braves to liberty media and is urging the organization’s members and followers to urge MLB to reject the deal. But it may not be for the reason you’d expect.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/tech/article/0,2777,DRMN_23910_4843497,00.html