ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Braves at Yankees
The fairly unusual Miserable Braves Loss Type 11.2(a): “Great Starting Pitching Ruined By Blown Save, Team Comes Back To Take Lead In Extra Innings, But Save Blown Again In Loss.” Unusual if you aren’t the Braves. After getting Jeter (on a nice play by Renteria, who had several in the game) leading off the twelfth, Horrible, Horrible Closer Jorge Sosa walked Giambi then allowed a game-winning homer to Mr. May, A-Rod.
This came after seven gutty innings by Smoltz, who allowed one run, struck out five, and pitched out of a seventh-inning leadoff triple, were ruined by Blown Save #1, this one at the hands of Ken Ray, who allowed a one-out homer to Giambi, walked the next two, and found himself rescued by Paronto, of all people. Suddenly, the most reliable reliever in the pen is the Vulture, who pitched two hitless innings, the tenth and eleventh, and was in place for another win if Sosa hadn’t intervened.
Marcus had seemingly won the game when (after starting 0-4, then walking only to get thrown out trying to steal) he hit a homer to take the lead in the twelfth. The Braves loaded the bases with two out (for the second inning in a row) only to have Francoeur line out to end the threat. Sosa probably would have blown a bigger lead anyway.
Chipper had three hits, McCann, Andruw, and Francoeur two apiece. But the Braves got nothing from the 7-9 spots but a HBP of Diaz (pinch-hitting for LaRoche) and a walk by Langerhans, and it cost them big time. And using Diaz to pinch-hit for LaRoche somehow led to McCann leaving the game, don’t ask me how.
Anyway, an off day. Let’s contemplate the good things in life. If I can think of any, I’ll let you know.
I’m not ready to give up on Sosa yet. HRs to Giambi and ARod are really not a sign of incompetence (although they are troubling…).
Un-freaking-believable!
I am distraught!
“Anyway, an off day.”
Right now, that is one of the good things in life.
“And using Diaz to pinch-hit for LaRoche somehow led to McCann leaving the game, don’t ask me how.”
Orr ran for him after a single.
Sosa has now given up 2 homeruns in 3 innings as our closer.
Also, the Braves have now guaranteed their worst record in any month since moving to Atlanta.
One more thing:
For those letting the idea creep into your mind that the Braves might be able to turn the season around – this is the kind of game you must win to dig out of such a deep hole.
Did I mention that I was distraught?
Anyway, an off day. Let’s contemplate the good things in life. If I can think of any, I’ll let you know.
June is almost over?
You know what this means, Villareal is the closer. The ultimate vulture spot.
Sosa’s pitch on the homerun ball was classic–as straight and down the middle as any I’ve ever seen. This guy is not closer material.
mraver, I agree that HR’s to Giambi and ARod are really not a sign of incompetence. However, Sosa has shown the ability to give up HR’s to players of all levels of ability. He does not discriminate.
The game was lost when Sosa threw those two wild balls to Rodriguez. Walking Jason Giambi is one thing. Considering how he hits, maybe not a bad thing, although the ball 4 call was questionable. But those first two pitches to Rodriguez were airmails. And say what you want about his late-game problems, but if you set him up 3-1 and are forced to throw a strike right in his sweet spot, he is going to hit it.
When Bobby came out of the dugout to get Paronto (or whoever), all I could think was, “He’s going to get Remlinger to face Giambi. Oh, crap. Watch this.” And then I remembered several seconds later that he had been DFAed. But really, does it matter? If we were going to use his performance as a benchmark we’d have to DFA the whole bullpen. They all suck. Remlinger was just a small part. His spirit still remains.
Betemit swinging on the first pitch with the bases loaded was nauseating. WTF was that, anyway? I fail to see how that is any better than Marcus, who (perhaps unfortunately, because now he’ll keep doing it) was at least rewarded for his free-swinging ways with a HR. And Francoeur? Dude may have a ton of RBIs, but he is killer to watch at the plate. Every single hit he gets is on a pitch that he shouldn’t have swung at.
Oh, and Brian McCann really can’t run at all. I know his ankle is still hurting him, so I’m not blaming him or anything, but wow, never have so many doubles been turned into so many singles. He crushes all these balls and then has to gimp only to first base. It’s sad to watch and it might be hurting the team, but since he’s the only one who can really hit anyway, I guess I’ll just leave that be.
Betimet swinging on the first pitch with the bases loaded?
How about Frenchy doing it, against a guy who averages almost a walk an inning, and after the guy walked the prior batter on 5 pitches?
I missed the pinch-running (it wasn’t in the boxscore and I generally try to tune out Chip whenever there’s not actual gave action). I’m anti-pinch-running anyway. Unless you’re actually talking about winning the game right there (not possible since you’re on the road) or tying it up in the ninth, you’re more likely to need the hitter again.
I would normally agree with the no-pinch-runner in that situation, Mac, but you should have seen how bad McCann was running to 1st. Made me fear for him long term.
Here’s a good thing–667 comments on the game thread. Let’s think about that for a second. That means that we have nearly as many comments as the Marlins have fans.
This team may suck, but by God, at least we’re loyal.
It’s the same 14 people repeating themselves!
By the logic of the old saying “I’d rather be lucky than good,” why not Villareal?
When he’s on the mound, good things seem to happen for no logical reason, as illustrated by his seven wins (which should have been eight after today). When most of our other bullpen pitchers are on the mound, bad things happen for very logical reasons.
Villareal is an avergae pitcher, which puts him well ahead of Sosa, Yates, Paronto, Reitsma, and probably McBride. Ray’s already had his chance. Barry and (when healthy) Stockman just got here. There really is no one else.
I really had no problem with the pinch-runner, either. McCann looks really bad running right now; he’s got a noticeable hitch in his step and he’s slow as molasses. And he seems to have trouble changing directions. Not fun to watch. Maybe he needs more rest.
McCann needs to be in the lineup. Even if he can’t run, he can still hit. And on the more rest issue: he wasn’t in the lineup on either Sunday or Monday. Not sure what else you can ask for.
in sosa’s defense, in the giambi at bat, sosa had strike 3 twice that wasnt called. in the a-rod at bat he was clearly overthrowing but the pitch he hit was the same pitch we have been throwing to him the whole series and he hadnt hit it until then. i still like sosa in the closer role, but there will be some kinks needing to work out.
You know what Mac, Bobby keeps pinch running for McCann in extra inning games, this probably means his ankle can’t handle games lasting for longer than nine innings.
I don’t think there is any reason to fault the guys for giving up homeruns to Giambi and ARod. However, I would question why did the Braves even pitch to Giambi in the eighth inning? Giambi basically carried the Yankees in the whole series.
Pratt and LaRoche run faster than McCann. In fact, they both could run circles around him.
I can’t imagine how frustrated Smoltz must be with the bullpen. Over the last two seasons they have cost him several wins, which beyond the damage it does to the team, may cost John personally come Hall of Fame ballot time. While I believe he should be in the HOF, he needs every win he can get to help persuade some of the less enlightened HOF voters.
Smoltz has officially called Roger Clemens and asked to borrow his hunting rifle and then he will plan to take the bullpen out ‘Quail hunting’ with a drunk Dick Cheney.
Good Luck, Sosa…..RUN!!!!!
By the way, if there is the ‘same 14 fans’ repeating themselves 667 times, that’s still about 11 more then the Marlins have fans!
Again, I am wondering if maybe we should call up Pena from Richmond to catch and move McCann to first, to see if that will help McCann’s ankle.
Sosa’s three appearances since being named as closer:
vs. TB: Ended with Diaz’ back to the wall in left catching Baldelli’s shot, which would have tied the game.
vs. NYY: Gave up HR to Cabrera. Fortunately harmless.
vs. NYY: Gave up game-losing HR to A-Clod.
So make Villareal the closer. See if he has enough Felix Felicis to last the year, or until Schuerholz gets a boot stuck up his ass and gets a real closer.
We have hit rock bottom on closers.
If you add up the total of Sosa’s blown saves, Ray’s few blown saves, Reitsma’s several blown saves, not to mention various blown bullpen ‘appearances’ by everyone from Remlinger to Paronto to Yates to McBride to Villareal, I believe that HAS to be at least a 12 game swing.
12 games…I believe this is accurate. (it may be worse…I am being conservative).
The point? Imagine if we were 12 or 14 games better right now because of the bullpen…we’d be about 3-4 gms. back of the Mets breathing down their necks and right in the top of the Wild Card mix.
That’s what the bullpen has done to this franchise. Thanks, JS. Thanks in fact to BOTH JS…if JOHN SMOLTZ had stayed in this role, it would make at least a 12 game difference.
It shows why it’s worth say giving a veteran, Wagner type closer, a 3-4 year multi million dollar, is worth it.
Our season would be completely different right now if not for this effing bullpen.
Bullpen? Yeah. It sucks.
But scoring 2 runs off Wang? If you can’t beat your Wang … sorry couldn’t help it.
It usually tough when hitters haven’t seen a pitcher many times before, so I’m not surprised Wang hung in there as long as he did. Pun intended.
Alex — we’ve blown 17 saves this season as a team. Not sure how many of them are 9th inning save situations versus something more akin to today, where it was an 8th inning blown save, but I would say your call of about 12 is spot-on.
Here’s some good news: the rest of the division is losing (Philly, in fact, will probably lose twice).
just hold on one wang minute! It wouldn’t matter if smoltz or anyone else was our closer, until our bullpen quits pitching behind in the count -and pitching up right down the middle of the plate ! The freekin result are going to continue to be the same. What are we paying our pitching Coach for? I am for firing him if he can’t make them do something /anything different! But until we quit doing the same things WE SHOULD’NT EXPECT A DIFFERENT RESULT. i’M to the point that i rather lose a game by walking four straight batters than throw a batting practice fastball to the next game winning hero
Stop The Insanity
I left the game in the 7th inning…had to go shopping with the misses…
I’m glad I did. 🙁 We’re awful… 🙁
You know, whenever I’m feeling bad about how JS butchered the team this year, something happens – like I turn the channel, see a report on Isaiah Thomas, and realize that JS isn’t so bad. In fact, he can be really good, as long as it’s the 1990s and we haven’t mortgaged the budget to four guys. But today the report on that other channel was on Billy Knight, and it occurred to me that the Hawks had blown another draft, and then I turned back to the Yankees, and it seemed the bullpen blew another game – twice – and then I shut off the television and contemplated moving.
The Mets are getting clobbered by an the Red Sox, again. I think AL dominance is official at this point.
Knight must be learning a lot from JS, they both seem to be very good at ignoring the obvious problems of their own respective team. Is he going to force Woody to play swingmans and power forwards from one to five?
I like the Shelden Williams pick. Yeah, he was maybe a bit of a stretch, but I’m sick of the raw guys who need to be developed, and the Hawks have enough of those. I’m hardly a member of the Cult of Duke, but it’s nice to get a four-year player on a team that last year had five players on the roster with no college experience at all. And they needed a power forward, badly — their only true frontcourt player of any note at all was Pachulia. They were playing Harrington (who anyway is a free agent) and Williams, two natural 3s, at the position. Yeah, they still need a point, but picking a scumbag like Marcus Williams or someone like Rajon Rondo, who is no more an NBA point guard than he is the president of Ecuador, that high would have been stupid.
I’m an Orlando Magic fan…
They pick J.J Reddick… I really don’t know how to react to that. I’m not sure what to do now..
Oh, and here’s the Hawks’ official blog.
I like Duke, so it wouldn’t bother me. But I don’t follow the NBA much at all.
Just avoid reading any of Redick’s poetry. It sucks major ass.
I know this is a baseball blog, but things are going badly and Mac opened it up. I’m just worried that Shelden is a bit of a ‘tweener,’ not quite big enough to play the 4 in the NBA – and we know they have enough small forwards to fit several teams. Plus, Knight just went with another project in the second round. But I do see the logic of getting a guy already ‘developed’; the word ‘upside’ has to be the most preposterous made up word in years: Chad Ford has already said it 523 times.
I love baseball and barely watch basketball. That I’m commenting on the Hawks shows just how bad the year has become for the Braves. On to face the Orioles!
also – where is Redick’s poetry? wait, he’s written poetry? and other people can read it?
Random thought: The Braves as a Hacking Mass team, using stats through today. Players are listed where they have gotten the most playing time. Worst players in bold:
C: McCann -25, Pratt 26, B. Pena 0
1B: LaRoche 0, Jordan 17
2B: Giles 42, Orr 19, Prado -2
SS: Renteria -6, T. Pena 5
3B: C. Jones -9, W. Betemit 0
LF: Langerhans 21, Diaz -8
CF: Andruw -22
RF: Francoeur 30
P: Reitsma 41, Davies 23 are our worst two.
Total 183, which would but the Braves in a tie for 600th out of 1342 teams. In other words, the Braves’ worst players are a worse team than most of the teams that were supposed to be bad.
Bold begone!
I’m with Mac on Shelden Williams. He plays great defense, rebounds, and is ready now to play in the NBA. I do wish they’d been able to pull off the draft-Roy-and-swing-him-to-the-Rockets-for-Williams-and-another-pick maneuver that had been rumored, but I can’t blame them for taking Williams.
One gripe: The Celtics traded a future first rounder to the Suns for the 21st pick and Brian Grant’s contract. The Hawks could have done that (they have plenty of cap space) and landed Marcus Williams, who, despite the character questions, would have been worth the risk that late, in my opinion. And it would have really sent a strong message to the fans. Wish they’d been able to pull that off.
I propose the following:
Harrington (sign-and-trade) to the Celtics for Rondo or Telfair and a future 2nd-rounder.
I think Rondo can be a solid NBA player. He’s an outstanding defender and a good decison maker, the two things the Hawks need most out of their PG. They have enough scoring options (especially with Stoudamire off the bench) to start a pass-first point guard, in my opinion.
I really don’t follow basketball, so can someone explain the reason for a “sign-and-trade” deal? I’m sure it’s prefectly logical, but it seems a little unnecessary to sign someone and trade them. Why didn’t the team that trades for him sign him in the first place?
Often it’s because they need/want to clear roster or cap space before acquiring the guy being signed.
But Rondo isn’t a pass-first point guard. I watched a lot of Kentucky this season, and he simply didn’t create well for the other players. The Wildcats were better on offense when they ran it through Patrick Sparks, even though Sparks is nobody’s idea of a point guard, because he ran the offense better. Rondo is also such a poor free throw shooter (58.3%) that you can’t have the ball in his hands with a lead late in the game.
Rondo is a great athlete and one of the finest man-to-man defenders you’ll ever see coming out of college. But he’s not a creator or a shooter, which means he’ll always be a role player. I suppose in combination with Johnson (doing the actual running of the offense) and Stoudamire (as a shooting complement) Rondo wouldn’t be a disaster, which is more than you can say for last year’s point guard debacle.
Telfair or West would be a lot more interesting.
To be honest, I thought that Jordan Farmar was the best point guard in this draft and was hoping the Hawks could get him in the second round.
Forgive me for my ignorance, because I don’t follow basketball very closely and I don’t really know what makes up a good player, but, uh, why did the New York Knicks take Renaldo Balkman or whatever his name is at #20? I flipped over to the draft during a commercial break and saw the analysts sitting there after this was announced like they’d just been told we had invaded Canada. Am I missing something?
Just back from my 3-day Braves/Yanks binge.
I was trying to think of all the times I’d witnessed the Braves surrender a walk-off HR & I could only recall three: this one, Ventura off McGlinchy in the ’99 NLCS & one by an obscure journeyman outfielder named John Morris off Wohlers in Philly back in Aug. ’91.
Then I tried to weigh which moment sucked the worst. And it pained me to say…this one did.
The other 2 had positive & swift resolutions almost immediately afterward. (Leaving Shea that miserable rainy night, I remember thinking this was the Mets high-water mark–they weren’t winning that series. No way.) This one, conversely, was part of a long, bad pattern. It was an opportunity to snag a tad of dignity.
Instead, it resulted in a scene I’ve witnessed often: Many dozen Braves leaving a stadium being jeered lustily by the locals. Mothers & children, all wearing Francouer Sunday-home jerseys, walking up RIver Avenue getting taunted by people who were booing A-Rod an hour previously. Lovely.
Tuesday’s game, of course, seemed like a small miracle with HoRam working some magic. But that’s not the game I’m going to remember.
When I think back about this season, I’m quite sure this will be the defining game/moment I recall least fondly.
Rob, the players will also appreciate the sign-and-trade deals because they can get more money by signing with their own team first than signing directly with the new team under the CBA of NBA.
Mac, if Williams ends up being a similar type of player to Elton Brand, then I have no problem with the pick at all. Damn, the Hawks may end up having a Williams front court with Marvin and Shelden. Then, what are they going to do with the two Joshes? Their growth and development in the second half of last season were at a rate which I wish Adam and Frenchy will emulate. I still think asking Joe Johnson to play the point is a bit to harsh.
I got a Question.
Yesterdat we had two blown saves in the same game. I never stopped to think about it, but… anybody knows if there is a record
for blown saves in a game??… i dont know… maybe we should try it
During the off-season, a general manager like John Schuerholz is the best. But he is simply not aggressive enough during the season.
Take the Mets’ general manager (who I don’t like by the way.) During May the Mets had a major back-of-the-rotation problem, and Jose Lima was horrible. So what did he do? He went out and got Orlando Hernandez, who has pitched pretty good for the Mets and is an okay fifth starter and an unquestionable improvement over Jose Lima. Whereas if it was Schuerholz, what would he have done? How many games would Schuerholz have to watch Lima screw over before the thought of trade even passed his mind?
Now it’s our bullpen, a group that has 16 saves and either 16 or 17 blown saves, and nothing from Schuerholz. How many times must he watch this group fail? Reitsma, Ray and Sosa can’t close. Why the heck hasn’t he gotten us a closer, what he is waiting for? 25 blown saves?
above someone mentioned a boot up JS’s ass, the problem is there isn’t anyone above him in ownership who gives a damn.
Well, Jenny, if you don’t know anything about basketball, why are you questioning the pick?
Hawks depth
PG
SG JJohnson JChildress
SF JSmith MWilliams
PF SWilliams
C Pachulia
That’s a pretty crummy team. Why didn’t we take Chris Paul? Arrgh.
“During the off-season, a general manager like John Schuerholz is the best. But he is simply not aggressive enough during the season.”
Agree that he stays in a coma during most seasons, but his offseason coma this year is what put us in this mess. He came out more than once talking about how he was ‘close’ to some deals, that we had the money to spend, blah blah, but when spring training came, all he’d done was make us a good bit worse than we were last year.
So I’m not going to say he’s the ‘best’ during the offseason.
Ububba – nice, melancholy comments. I think you really nailed the way most of us are feeling.
On the 17 blown saves – that does not even include the tied games they’ve lost and the close games they have let get away. I think it is safe to say that the pen has cast us at least 12 games in the standings as compared to what would be expected from a slightly above average bullpen. The sad thing is that maybe $6M in the offseason would have fixed it, and one could argue that we had the money.
On JS’s current inactivity on the trade market – I cannot blame him for not making a move at this point. The Braves went from 3 back to 15 back in a blink. About the time the deficit became double digits you had to think that the season might be beyond repair. The Braves are likely to be in the seller category this year. To mortgage the future for one of the few bullpen arms that are available at this point in the season would probably be a mistake. Maybe, the best we could hope for is a third place finish as opposed to last or fourth in our Division. I think the current team, with some talent from the farm and perhaps the waiver wire, has to move us back into the buyer category before we make a trade.
However, in hindsight, JS should have made a move in mid-May.
JS makes deals during the season pretty frequently. Last year he got Farnsworth and Hollandsworthless. The year before that he got Martin and his hefty salary in a “great trade.” Who can forget Fred McGriff?!
Or Rey Sanchez.
“However, in hindsight, JS should have made a move in mid-May. ”
Agree, but the signs of this collapse were evident in spring training. And I’m of the belief that if you address the team’s BLATANT, OBVIOUS, GLARING, FESTERING weaknesses in the offseason, when you have the money to spend on available players, you don’t have to panic during the season.
He chose to roll the dice and ride it out, hoping to get lucky. He planned on taking until June to sort things out like he has for 14 years, but that didn’t work b/c the Mets are actually good. And everyone in the universe knew they would be and that we had better prepare, but we didn’t.
My work with Ken Ray doesn’t seem to be working. Does somebody else want to adopt him?
Oh and why the heck didn’t Bobby bring in Macbride to face Giambi in the 8th?
I really think Smoltz killed this team when he went back into the rotation last year. He was too beat up by the end of the year requiring Tim Hudson to pitch game 1 of the playoffs which he lost. Then this year we have been utterly devastated by our bullpen. Fortunately it won’t matter when Smoltz’s arm blows out in September from Bobby pitching him too many innings because there won’t be any postseason for the Braves this year. Smoltz is too old and fragile to rely on in the rotation. If he refuses to go back to closer, we should trade him to the highest bidder before the trading deadline.
According to Ken Rosenthal (if you can believe him) the Braves aren’t going to be sellers, rather they’re going to try and build a world series/playoff caliber team this season with mostly a world series attempt in 2007 in mind since 2007 will be Smoltz’s last year in baseball and Andruw Jones’ possible last year as a Braves since his contract expires. Wildcard is still possible though looking bad.
Has anyone seen this by the way? Chipper not pleased at all after yesterday’s game.
“Oh and why the heck didn’t Bobby bring in Macbride to face Giambi in the 8th?”
I think he brought McBride in to fact Damon, but I really don’t remember. It could easily have been Giambi.
With the Phillies strapped for pitching, the team called up right-hander Adam Bernero from Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Bernero first appeared in the big leagues with Detroit in 2000 and has also pitched for Colorado and Atlanta.
The 29-year-old Bernero started the 2006 season in the Kansas City Royals’ organization. He was signed earlier this month by the Phillies and assigned to Triple-A.
You mean we could have gotten Bernero?
Dang!
I would rather have Bernero than almost any current Braves reliever.
Wow. Strong words from Chipper. I didn’t get to watch the game yesterday; was the umpiring really that bad?
Thanks for that link, Dan.
From the box score, it doesn’t look Macbride came in until extra innings. He could have been used in the 8th. I guess Bobby was thinking leave Ray in because he has been one of the more effective members of this bullpen plus A-rod was up next who is a righty. I would have brought in Macbride for Giambi then Sosa or Paranto for A-rod in the 8th.
sosa struck out giambi twice and got neither call (which would have definitely changed this game). if i recall correctly, even giambi made a flinch to the dugout. i specifically remember chipper being disgusted 2-3 times in this series with the plate umpire. as good of an eye as chipper has, i would say he is probably right, but we had many missed opportunities to put more runs on the board. i really hope to put it to baltimore and start off this 10 game home stand the right way. everyone in our division seems to be on a downward spiral. i hope we can take advantage of it.
Chipper’s comments bother me.
1. It seems like we may have really gotten screwed.
2. It looks like Chipper may have put too much focus on something over which he had no control. Better to focus on actually getting a hit with the bases loaded.
I thought Giambi was out twice. Ray is the one who blew the game. I am not going to knock him. He has been our best pitcher in the pen all season.
I don’t think you can put the blame for this loss squarely on any one player’s shoulders. Both Betemit and Francoeur left the bases loaded, and both Ray and Sosa gave up devastating homers. It was just a tough game to lose.
You can too blame one player. And I blame Sosa.
Well, I think you’re wrong for doing so.
I blame Sosa too.
We were just three (well really two) outs away from winning two consecutive series, four out of six, and two of three from the Yankees and having some momentum on our side. And everyone lose yesterday, we could have had a game on every NL East rival.
GET A CLOSER ALREADY!
We were also *just there* when Ray gave up the homer to Giambi and when Betemit and Francoeur had opportunities to give us a crappy-closer-proof lead.
It’s hard to blame Sosa when we all knew it was an experiment to have him there. I think he’s the best option back there, hands down. And I haven’t given up on him yet. He should have controlled his emotions better after he walked Gimabi – especially since we rarely see him lose his composure, IMO. But really, I blame JS for putting Bobby in this position in the first place.
And I do tend to agree that the offense was bad, even if the bullpen gave up the most untimely runs *ever*
I’m really starting to think Smoltz at closer may be our best bet, but it won’t happen.
Blame Sosa all you like, but really, what’s the alternative? I think Sosa is hands down the best option at this point. He needed to keep his composure after he lost Giambi the way that he did and that was his mistake. But I haven’t given up on him yet, since giving up a HR to ARod isn’t exactly shameful. Bullpen was good on this trip until last night, and was actually good outside of the set-up man and closer
The offense didn’t exactly help out the pitching staff, either. 3 runs in 12 innings while strading all thsoe runners? Blech
sorry about the double post – first was slow to show up
JS, I hope the book is great maybe you should use this season for your next freakin chapter. Keep your focus on that book, dont worry about the team or the fans!