ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Braves at Devil Rays
That’s exactly what Chuck James was supposed to do. He got strikeouts (eight of them, in as many innings) and fly balls (of his other outs, he got thirteen fly balls and two groundouts, one for a double play). It’s worked in the minors, and what works in the minors usually works in the majors. James allowed but three hits, two of which could easily have been scored errors, and the one run could have been scored unearned. The only real blemish was four walks, three of them in the early innings. Kid’s good.
The Rays only started to make solid contact in the eighth — one thing to watch for is that when he tires, those popups might turn into something more dangerous, and Bobby may need a quick hook. For now, we appear to be in good hands.
The Braves got an early run in the second when LaRoche doubled, Pratt sacrificed him to third, and Giles hit a little fly ball to Tomas Perez, an infielder playing right field for some reason, and LaRoche stumbled home with a 1-0 lead. They weren’t able to do much more until two out in the seventh, when a single by Betemit and a walk by LaRoche brought Pratt back to the plate and he hit a three-run homer.
Betemit was playing short with Renteria DHing, and probably killed his chance of playing there full time any time soon with some really sloppy play. He misplayed two of the three hits and committed an error, and the one run (in the seventh) was mostly his fault… Sosa pitched the ninth for an easy save, not that any saves are easy for us.
On to New York. Oh boy. It’s entirely possible that one of our relievers (I’m guessing Paronto, but you can’t rule out Yates) will actually allow a home run hit out of Yankee Stadium.
Well at least there is a ray of sunshine in this mess. Check James gets his chance. Hope he stays in the rotation for a long time. Also Sosa pitches the 9th without a problem. Something to build on (I hope).
Well done, Chuck James.
Are all of those pop ups the source of James’ high FB/GB ratio? It is sort of deceiving when you have a 13-2 FB-GB stat in a game. A fly to the warning track looks the same as a pop to short. You almost need three categories, I think.
Here’s what Chuck had to say about his fly ball/ground ball ratio in the interview this offseason:
Usually, they do. He gets a lot of popups and pop flies — did in the bullpen earlier this year, did today. I think — I can’t say for sure, but that’s what it looks like to me — that he’s so extreme a fly ball pitcher that it’s hard to make solid contact.
Thanks, Mac.
I guess allowing players to elevate the ball should be cause for concern over the potential home run rate. But, quite frankly, popups and lazy flies ought to be preferred to grounders. It’s a lot harder for those types of hits to find holes.
At any rate, “strike ’em out or pop ’em up” seems to be a method that is working for James.
Moreover, with our infield defense, it’s a lot safer to rely on Andruw. francoeur and Langerhans/Diaz than on the infielders.
Glad to see a good start for the kid today, and Sosa looked pretty decent in relief, the walk notwithstanding.
Very encouraging start by Chuck James. I’m not a big believer in momentum, but it would be nice to have a pick-me-up going into Yankee Stadium. I’m always worried by flyball pitchers but until he starts turning into HoRam, I’ll just try to enjoy all the silly little popups.
And if anyone is watching the Netherlands-Portugal game, it is the worst refereeing I have ever seen in my life. 15 yellows, 3 reds, 2 fights breaking out…the game is utterly out of control. Just horrible.
Mac;
Thank you for the Douglas Adams reference in the game thread! Unfortunately, I think we know who is mostly harmless” these days.
It’s these walks from the bullpen that get me…they lead to blown saves and damaged nerves (mine). The hits aren’t pleasant either, but they can only be prevented by pitchers with above 10 k/9 innings. I say Bobby and Roger institute a walk tax on their relievers. $1000 each time they walk a batter to begin an inning or relief stint, unless it’s the unnaturally-large-headed specimen who used to play for the Pirates. I’d also tax them half of that for any other walks in their outings. Maybe that would convince some of the younger (and less wealthy) pitchers to quit nibbling and start going after hitters.
Chuck James was cold as ice on the mound today. He pitched one of the best games we’ve had all year, since Davies and Smoltz pitched back to back three hitters.
From now on, I’m calling him LL Chuck J. (It’s ironic, because the rapper’s real name is James Todd, the names of today’s two heroes.)
Ladies Love Chuck James!
Alright Bravos I know it’s only the satan rays, but you have to start somewhere! A lot of Positive things have happened this week, mainly “pitching ” if offensive production can get on track ie: chipper /giles /renty I believe some more “W’s” are in our future. I know i have been very critical of Pratt, but he did have a good series “even a blind hog finds an acorn every once in a while ”
Now let’s beat them yankees
Another small sliver of good news could be the Yanks’ day-night DH today. Rivera pitched in the first game. Hopefully, we’ll get another close one tonight.
Also, it would be fortunate if we got the Randy Johnson with the flat slider tomorrow. He’s been the definition of inconsistent this year. He’s basically either pretty good or he gets tattooed, and tattooed early.
He’s actually been good 3 of his last 4, but this year’s pattern seems to be that if he gets in trouble early, he gets down on himself & he doesn’t really seem to have the will to gut out the games where things aren’t going his way. First couple innings could be big.
Got tix for all 3. Hopefully, we’ll have something to cheer about.
Everyone has been yelling for Betemit to play regularly, but if you watch, he seems to be like DeRosa; when he plays regularly, he doesn’t hit. I think he is a much better utility option than a regular. I don’t know what WB has on the official scorer but both of those were routine plays–they should have been errors.
Great game by Chuck James. But don’t go overboard. A pitcher that the other team hasn’t seen has a big advantage. The real test is after he has made a few starts and then goes around the league again. Remember, Willis had a sensational first half his rookie year and got lit up the second half. Still, it’s encouraging to see a Braves pitcher that is actually not afraid to throw strikes and can actually get some strikeouts.
But the offense is still pretty awful. Ten runs in three games against the Devil Rays? On the other hand, considering the Braves play in the 4A league, taking a series from an American League team is an accomplishment.
What will be incredibly interesting to me about tomorrow night’s game will the Chipper Jones-Randy Johnson match up.
It will be test of injury plagued wills.
Barring UNIT’S No Hitter a few years back at the Ted, Chipper has generally ONWNED the Big Unit; however, now we have a broken down, limping, aging Chipper—-on the flipside, a broken down, aging, limping Big Unit.
You’d like to THINK seeing Randy Johnson one last time (possibly) will hopefully excite Chipper enough to get a good, 3 for 4 with 2 doubles and a home kinda night….I know it’s asking a lot at this pt. but Maybe Randy Johnson is the tonic Larry needs?
WAKE UP, CHIPPER!!!!
Anyway,nice win…cannot believe we actually won another GAME let alone a WHOLE series!!!! But I will take it.
I am glad it only took until being 15 games out at the end of JUNE for Bobby to discover that Chuckie should have been in the rotation a lot sooner in place of Thomson or Sosa.
I love Chuck James. He’s had success his whole career, and I don’t think we should discount this win at all because it was against the Rays or because they’ve never seen him before. He’s got game, and I hope he and Davies can be the foundation of a good rotation for a long time.
Speaking of Davies, does anyone know anything new about him? Last I heard was just that the surgery went well. When’s he supposed to be back? July? August?
All-time regular seasons vs. Randy Johnson:
Chipper
10 for 27, 1 2B, 6 HR, 8 RBI, 3 BB, 10 K,
370 BA, 433 OBP, 1.074 SLG
Andruw
6 for 24, 3 HR, 3 RBI, 5 BB, 9 K,
250 BA, 379 OBP, 625 SLG
Edgar
12 for 45, 4 2B, 2 HR, 5 RBI, 8 BB, 13 K,
267 BA, 377 OBP, 489 SLG
And brace yourself…
Brian Jordan
13 for 39, 2 2B 1 HR, 10 RBI, 3 BB 12 K
333 BA, 381 OBP, 462 SLG
Nobody else on the team has more than 5 ABs vs. Johnson.
One more fun fact about today’s game:
This is the Braves’ first win by three runs or more since May 24.
I truly believe that the GB-FB ratio is the one category that sabermetrics guys have over-emphasized over the past few years. It’s more of an indicator than it is a tell, and I would always be more interested in the tell. Specifically, how a guy does with the long ball, and with opponents slugging, tells you much more than does his GB-FB ratio. For instance, this season HoRam has gotten far more of his outs on the ground than he has in the air; the problem is that when guys hit the ball in the air off of him, nobody catches it. Chuck James seems ok, in that he’s fine getting guys to hit the ball in the air – because it’s often a pop up or a lazy fly ball. That’s not to say he won’t give up home runs, but it does say that he has the stuff to get people out when they hit the ball in the air, and there’s not much to worry about with his poor groundball ratios.
Did anyone mention that Brian Jordan is out 4-6 weeks with a “nondisplaced fracture of the clavicle?” It was on the official website today. I feel bad, because I bet it hurts, but I can’t exactly say I’m sorry. Maybe that’ll be it for him.
Wilson says sorry for the two boots, y’all. The sun got in his eyes. Huh? What’s that? The Rays play in a dome? Well anyway, that’s what he said….
I’m going to hit him a lot of grounders tomorrow, so he’ll be ready for the Yanks.
Thank you to whoever posted the article for the NY Times about Dayton Moore on the game thread. Great article. Really made me miss the guy. When he left I got the sense the Braves’ future didn’t look so great (of course, I had no clue they’d get so lousy so quickly). It’ll be interesting to see if the Royals can start to turn things around in the next couple of years. I have a feeling they will, and will be rooting for Moore all the way.
Also, the AJC said Davies threw eight pitches in batting practice then felt discomfort so he stopped. He was supposed to throw for 5 minutes, but that obviously didn’t happen. He says it’s not a setback and will hopefully be ready to go by late July early August.
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/sports/braves/stories/0625davies.html
I dunno how to feel about Chuck. I’d like to think that he can continue inducing a ton of popups, but as I said a long time ago, even if he leads the league in POs he likely won’t induce more than 8% or so as a percentage of his BIP. For flyball guys, it’s a question of when they allow homers, not if. The question is, can Chuck make up for the homers he allows by striking out lots of guys and not walking anyone? So long as he does this, the Braves have a fine pitcher.
Not trying to imply Andruw will be traded away or anything, but I just realize Andruw will become a 10/5 player by the end of this season.
Who ever had Remlinger can pick up James
From the Braves MLB site…
“Right fielder Jeff Francoeur has the most two-out RBIs in the Majors, 31”
I totally didn’t realize that.
Well he got four off of one hit: that GW grand slam about a month ago.
Yes Rissa, I think the Braves are trying hard to advertise this stat on Frenchy to cover up his incompetency in getting on base.
If we drop (further), does anyone advocate putting our top 3 tradeable assets (Smoltz, Hudson, Giles) on the market and see what we could get?
I’ll bet we could get quite a bit for these assets and be back on top of the division in ’08.
Great article on the flyball / groundball issue at the hardball times . . . . (including references to JC).
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-truth-about-the-grounder/
One of the article’s big points is that groundball pitchers may not give up as many homeruns, but they give up more line drives which is costly in it’s own way. Also groundball pitchers’s ERAs are helped by the fact that most errors occur on grounders.
My take on Chuck James is that the groundballs and flyballs aren’t as relevant as the fact that he controls the strike zone well, both in not allowing walks and striking guys out. Less men on base is very important. And keeping balls off the ground means less chances for our infield to make errors.
Also, Chuck’s HR allowed rate for his minor league career is good (.42 HR/9). That (along with the times I’ve seen him pitch) leads me to believe that it’s pop-ups, not flyballs that are the cause of his skewed FB/GB numbers.
Malone, I wouldn’t trade Smoltz and Hudson at all because this would impact next year’s chance as well. No team can find the quality of Hudson and Smoltz in the market easily even if there are monies to spend.
Why do we have to wait until 08 because the Braves can get back to top of the division? With a smarter GM, the Braves shouldn’t even be in this situation at all for this season.
Nevertheless, I think Marcus is already in the market regardless of the situation now.
Andruw debuted on August 15, 1996, so he shouldn’t be 10-and-5 until after the trading deaddline. I remember that well- I was sure that the Braves were going to warp his development by rushing him. Funny how these things used to work out.
The Braves are definitely hyping the 2-out RBI. But here’s why he’s had so many of them:
Jeff has had 65 PA with runners on and 2 out, far more than many hitters (Albert Pujols, for instance, has 36) . In those situations, Jeff is hitting 270/292/619. Lotsa power, but still better than 7 chances in 10 that he’ll end the inning.
That’s in large part because he’s batted 6th so often this season- only Shawn Green has more PAs batting #6. Lotsa chances for five guys ahead of him to make two outs and get runners on.
Of course, there’s a lot else to be less happy about:
Jeff’s GB/FB ratio is up sharply from last year, from .88 to 1.42.
Jeff’s 90th out of 91 qualified NL batters in OBP and in pitches per plate appearance.
Jeff’s a mindboggling 0-24 with 13 strikeouts when the count goes to 3 and 2.
The key to James is his control. If he has commend to his pitches, it doesn’t matter what is flyball/groundball ratio is. If his control is off, those pop outs will turn into homerun, which is what Mac meant when he mentioned Bobby should apply a quick hook on James.
Seriously, statistics are only indicators. If a player is managed corectly, a flyball pitcher can overcome this ratio easily and has success in the major.
Brian, I agree with you absolutely. With the OBP of Edgar, Chipper, and McCann (Andruw’s OBP is not bad either at .352), Frenchy has plenty of oppurtunities to drive in runs.
For those of you who argued against Andruw’s case of winning the MVP last year, the two-out RBI stat of Frenchy should not be exciting at all.
And just as solace to those who think we’re all alone out there, Houston has just blown a 9-1 lead in the last three innings against the White Sox. Tadahito Iguchi took Brad Lidge deep for a grand slam with two outs in the 9th to tie the game at 9.
Brad Lidge will never be the same again. The overusage of Lidge by Phil Garner since 2004 is finally catching up.
If New York gets hit tomorrow by the same storm that just hit us in DC all day today, we may get rained out. It’s been pouring since early this morning and we’ve gotten 5 inches so far today. The whole state of Maryland is a giant lake and our basement is currently in the initial stages of flooding. Looks like it’s heading very slowly up the coast. It’s a huge, long storm. Blech.
And the Marlins shut out the Yankees tonight with a pitcher who should be in AA, so maybe there’s hope for us.
NWS says the storm will mostly miss New York (“a few showers” tomorrow, cloudy Tuesday, scattered T-storms Wednesday), but take that with a grain of salt. Good luck with your basement.
I didn’t catch today’s game…since I just got home..
We won…and we won a series!! Hot Damn
James looked great, I loved how he didn’t let the bungles in the field mess with his mind. He seemed to get better as mistakes were made behind him.
Pratt also did a nice job keeping his head in the game.
As of now, it looks like we’ll get all 3 games in. It’s gonna rain overnight & through the morning, but be finished well before game time tomorrow night. Not supposed to rain until Wednesday night, but I’m sure it’ll be plenty humid for the day game.
BTW, In the CWS/Hou game, Iguchi not only hit the GSHR to send the game to extras, he hit a 3-run HR in the 8th to pull within four. I’ll bet the Astros never wanna play the ChiSox again.
I don’t think the Cardinals dont want to play the CWS either anymore after their series last week…
I never look at G/F ratios. There is almost no information there if you know a pitchers Ks, BBs, and HRs. While flyball pitchers are a bit more likely to allow home runs, they also get more outs on non-HRs. It’s basically a wash.
Chuck’s DIPS numbers have really been spectacular, even after you take into account the Braves pitchers-park minor league system. And it’s only because of these numbers that the Braves have been forced to bring him up. He’s really been jerked around by the organization, and he hasn’t gotten the glowing praise that “leaks out”, which some prospects get.
Are we calling it player “adoption?” (Sorry, I don’t remember who instituted it). Whatever it is, I’ll continue to hang on to James.
I have to say that I am pretty proud of my boy LaRoche. Not only did he not screw things up but he actually contributed. Two hits and a walk!!! Keep it up Rochey.
BTW, C James, It is about time we see him get an opportunity.
Agree about Frenchy; the two-out RBI stat is overrated and ignores all the outs he has made with runners on swinging at first pitches. I like Jeff, but he is no more than an average major league player at this point even though his raw talent is exciting.
I think the Braves should at least explore trading Smoltz, especially if they continue struggling. I just don’t see the Braves contending this year. At most, Smoltz probably has two more years (assuming Braves would resign him after next year). I can’t see why you would want a 40+ pitcher anchoring the staff, especially if the team is not likely to be a WS contender. IMO, there are too many holes to fix in a year. Smoltz would bring a lot because he is exactly the kind of guy a contender would want down the stretch–he is much better than Doyle Alexander ever was. Maybe the Braves could pick up some power arms (and I don’t mean guys in A ball) like the Marlins did ora bat.
Well if Frenchy is just an average MLB player right now, I’ll take it! He is only like 21 year sold. He has improved leaps and bounds this season.
We are not moving Smoltz. I wish everyone woudl stop that. We can compete next year and he is only going to make $8 million. I’ll take him as the anchor of our staff until he proves he can’t do it anymore.
JC, I don’t really see how the Braves have “jerked around” Chuck James. He’s been steadily promoted after posting good numbers at each level. He’s never been left to languish too long at a level. He started last year (just his third year in the system) in High-A and ended it with a September call-up. And I don’t think the Braves feel like they were forced to bring him up, either. James was on the opening day roster this year and wouldn’t have gone back down except for the injury. Is the only real complaint that he wasn’t hyped enough?
Thank you for some reason to the Frenchy stuff, Smitty. No Doubt he is tough to watch at time. We are watching him develop as a major leaguer. He is not going back to the minors to develop so we have to take the lumps as they come. At the end of the day, he is only 22 and every indication is that he will get better. I’m excited about the possibility of French and McCann anchoring our line-up for years to come.
Yeah it’s not like James is going to be our number one starter for the rest of the year. The first time he gives up three runs or he says “Baseball America is stupid” everyone is going to talk about how he is not ready. There wasn’t a place in the rotation for him until now and Jay is right about everything he said. I hear that James could be a nut job and picks fights with players. maybe that is why he wasn’t the number two starter commingout of the spring. I guess the Braves should start promoting their talent more so we can get over worked about their AA stats.
Well, as I said, I like Francoeur, but I think he is the kind of player that could go either way. The assumption is that he will continue to improve and develop better plate discipline. That may or may not be true; it’s not clear that guys can improve their plate discipline. I’m not saying they should trade him; that would be crazy at 22 given his obvious raw ability. But it’s possible, at least, that he won’t develop into a great player because you can’t simply assume that he will ever become a more selective hitter. He certainly will never be an on-base machine and he doesn’t necessarily need to be, but he certainly needs to improve. He is young and was probably called up too soon. But you never know with these kinds of hitters. He might end up a great hitter or he might plateau like most of the Braves prospects. I’m not dissastisfied with what he has done so far and I agree a lot of the criticism is unfair given his age. The problem is that he is being expected to be one of the primary hitters on the team when he should really be in no more than a supplentary role at this point. I am worried that the pressure placed on him to be a star right away will retard his development and keep him from being as good as he might be. If so, the blame lies firmly on Time Warner for forcing the Braves to rely on him rather than getting an established right fielder.
I’m just impressed at how many strikeouts he got. He’s a changeup pitcher with a 90 mile an hour fastball who just averaged a strikeout an inning. Tom Glavine rarely struck out this many people when he was 22. If he can strike people out with the same regularity he did in the minors, he won’t have to be a nibbler, and he’ll be a dangerous, dangerous pitcher.
I don’t think we win the division with out Francoure last year. He is also second in the league with go ahead RBI’s after the seventh inning. I know many people think there is no such thing as clutch, but the kid can handle the pressure. He has had more big hits than any other Braves this season. Should he have started the saeson at AAA? Maybe, but now he is fine. He has gotten more selective at the plate, but he will always be an aggressive hitter. He doesn’t go up there looking to take a walk. Remember that kid in little league who did and never got any hits and trie dto walk all the time?
Was that you smitty, I knew I recognized you from somewhere…
What’s with the ragging on Frenchy? I’ll take 30+ homers and 100+ rbi’s and great defense ANY DAY! Even if he doesn’t improve he’s basically an Andruw Lite right now. Some of you are crazy.
I was the kid who swung at the first good pitch I saw. I usually hit it right to someone though
Even without plate discipline and at 22 years old, without really having played one full season.. Frenchy can give us 30 hr..100 rbi’s and great defense.
And even so he leads the team, no…the MAJORS with 2 out rbi’s.
He frustrates me at times with his strike-outs and first pitch outs..but I’m one of his biggest fans..
We should be happy that we have him and McCann and hopefully they’ll anchor our line-up for years to come.
I’m happy! I don’t think we could ask much more out of them.
Francoeur also, from what I can tell, leads the majors in outs. His HR and RBI come at a huge cost.
I think it’s pretty relalive Mac..
If our lead-off hitter could get on with some consistency…and Chipper would be having a better year at the plate.. then Frenchy, hitting behind Renteria, Chip, Andruw and McCann, would have even more oppurtunities to do damage and have even more rbi’s and we would be wanting to vote him into the All-Star game probably..
But..the whole team (except Brian) is struggling, we’re not winning..and that makes Frenchy’s OB% and outs stick out even more..
I meant to type “relative” in the above post..
He also plays everyday. He made a few over throws early, but the threat of his arm and the number of guys he has thrown out has saved the team several runs. He doesn’t get credit for the little things he has done to win games. His steal of third the other night was huge!It forced the infiled to come in and allowed Todd Pratt’s sure doulbe play ball to be an rbi.
He isn’t killing the team. You guys are too hard on him
Much too hard on him. Everyone is looking for a scapegoat to blame our failures on.
Like Smitty said how many times has the threat of his arm kept someone at third and how many has he thrown out at home? Just the other night he threw out two people at home in the same game.
He is in his first full season and is going to hit 30 plus homers and knock in 100 something rbi’s. He also plays excellent defense and a ton of energy every day. If he still has his current shortcomings in 5 years, then fine let’s talk about how he’s a drag. Until then if you want to find players who are “killing us” I can name many others before Frenchy’s name comes to mind. Players like Giles and Chipper are established veterans who are “supposed” to be leaders on this team. Both of them are having struggles that adversely affect this team. I never would have thought that Giles would bat 230 no matter what spot in the order he is batting from.
Is Ryan Langerhans dead? Has anyone seen him in the last few weeks?
On the bench and he might be there for good with Matt Diaz playing so good out in left.
I think the 0-for-24-with-a-full-count statistic posted above is a pretty good indicator of how ready Francoeur is to be a Major League hitter.
As has been said, he’s got huge upside, and I do believe that his power potential and defense (and the fact that we have no one else remotely capable of starting in the Majors) make him worth keeping around.
HOWEVER, he should be batting 7th or 8th. I’m not a stat-head, and even I know that his RBI numbers (which, for some reason, continue to be lauded on here by many) are overblown and should be taken with a grain of salt. HE’S ALWAYS UP THERE WITH MEN ON BASE. HE HAS A TON OF OPPORTUNITIES TO DRIVE IN RUNS.
Yes, I’m glad that he’s driven in 55 runs instead of 35. However, that fact doesn’t mean he’s a good run producer. He may turn out to be, but as of right now, he’s at best a wash (with respect to the rest of the league) in terms of his value to the line-up, and he doesn’t need to be batting 6th.
Langy, still has a hip flexor bothering him.
Langy, did play CF and LF in the 2nd game of the last series
How can he be a wash..if he hasn’t even played 162 games yet…
I agree that he should bat 7th in the order but he’s hardly the only one to blame in this offense. Look at Giles..Chipper.. LaRoche etc..
Like Josh said…give him 5 years before you give up on him as a “Major Leaugue hitter”
I wonder if Bobby Cox will leave Brian Mccann in tonight with Randy Johnson pitching tonight.
If Frenchy has these problems in 5 years, then he will have never reached his potential, because he will be in his prime, with no strike zone judgment.
Look at the OPS of Giles; Frenchy; Chipper (and every other Braves regular), vs. the OPS of the players at their position. Frenchie ranks the worst, among the Braves. he bounces between worst RF in the league and second-worst, depending if he is on the end of one of his hot streaks.
he could be great; he won’t be if this doesn’t get fixed. And for those who want time to cure it, his walk rate is much worse this year than last year. We don’t even have an upward trend to comfort us.
What are his number after the 7th inning? Those are the ones I would like to see.
Ticket Notice for anyone in the NYC area:
I have 3 extras for tonight’s game that are upstairs between home & first base. If anyone’s interested, shoot me an email (djtimes@testa.com) before 5 pm. Thanks.
Francoeur’s is hitting .209 3 HR 8 RBIs 8 Ks and a .277 OBP in late innings
I guess the way to summarize things best is to say that Jeff Francoeur is the Michael Vick of the Braves.
Like Vick, he’s young and has tremendous physical talent, in a way unusual for his position.
Like Vick, he makes the occasional jaw-dropping play that will run on highlight reels for years.
Like Vick, he’s terribly inconsistent.
Like Vick, his failure to master important parts of his job makes him at best an average player overall.
Like Vick, there’s reason to believe that he will improve to be an asset- IF it is impressed upon him that he’s not as great as his press clippings make him out to be.
Unlike Vick, he doesn’t have a promising backup, because even when KJ comes back he probably won’t have the arm to play right.
pretty hilarious, watch the video on the right.
http://sports.espn.go.com/minorlbb/news/story?id=2500470
csg, that was sooo funny.
I saw Phillip Wellman do something like that at a Lookouts game one time.
ububba, just tonight’s game?
Davey, if you’ll learn to read for comprehension, you’ll notice that I haven’t given up on Francoeur as a Major League hitter. I simply said he wasn’t yet ready.
Stu, getting defensive
Stu, please don’t make the argument personal.
Just to make sure we unite against the real common enemy here, a quote:
“It’s appropriate to locate the nearest life preservers. I’ll decide when it’s actually time to put the life preservers on.”
John Schuerholz on his team’s disappointing season (MLB.com)
Unofrtunately, Schuerholz got us these newfangled cement life preservers.
I’m sorry Stu.. didn’t mean any harm
I agree with you that he should bat lower (for now)..and that he has alot of room for improvement.
But, my point was just that at 22, and still with so much to learn at the plate, he can still hit 30+ hr and 100+ rbi…in a line-up that is struggling this season.
So, as Braves fans, we should be very excited at what he could bring to this team, when he matures as a hitter.
Let’s just hope he in fact does mature at the plate..
Player TEAM POS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
1. J Francoeur ATL OF 76 312 37 78 9 3 15 55 138 7 63 1 5 .271 .442 .250
2. R Zimmerman WSH 3B 74 284 37 76 21 1 10 47 129 26 63 5 4 .328 .454 .268
3. R Howard PHI 1B 72 267 40 78 10 1 25 66 165 28 75 0 0 .357 .618 .292
Sorry for the attitude. That came out more harshly than I intended, but I should have checked that before publishing the comment.
I agree that he could develop into something special; I just think the people who are claiming that he’s already some great run producer are failing to actually look at what he’s done.
I think it is interesting to compare Francoeur to Murphy. Murphy was ~20 1/2 when he made his debut, and Francoeur was ~21 1/2 when he made his debut. However, Murphy did not become a regular until his age 22 season. And, comparing their success to this point in their respective careers, Francoeur has had much more success than Murphy did. Murphy walks more than Francoeur has walked (to this point), but Francoeur has had higher average (buoyed by his ridiculous start last year), HR & RBI. I know Murphy started out as a catcher too, and different postions affect the analysis – but my point is that it takes time for hitters to develop. IMO, Francoeur is a better option, getting his seasoning & experience in the bigs than either a) giving those same PAs to a marginal OF ‘prospect’ or b) hauling in the famous “Jordesi” type hitters of the past.
And if Francoeur improves & matures as a hitter, I think a reasonable view of his upside gives lots of room for hope (while not killing us in the present – or, at least not being worse than similar players who have come before)
Hoboken,
As of now, yes, it’s only for tonight’s game. And it’s down to a pair of tix.
And I have seen signs of improvement from Frenchy. He walked again the other night, if anyone knows I would bet his AB/WALK ratio is improving and he has been getting more hits other than homers, not to mention he was robbed of a hit up the middle the other night. How many outfield assists does he have so far?
It;s funny you said that Stu because I think the people who think he is playing so poorly are failing to take into account his entire game. I don’t know many other outfielders who can regularly throw out people at the plate and keep people on third just because of the threat of his arm. Vladdy comes to mind.