Baseball Examiner — 2005 Top 10 Catcher Prospects
So how can a guy who is two years older than Saltalamacchia and who is a level below him and has basically the same BA and SLG be a better hitting prospect?
I don’t really keep up with the minor leagues, I don’t have that much time. Whatever. Consider this an open thread.
Apparently, Brian Jordan is working out at first base. Mac, you’re on.
I would say New England bias, but he’s a Seattle Mariners prospect, for pete’s sake. That team will be lucky if he makes it to the majors without blowing out his elbow.
I would say that is an extremely poorly-assembled list.
I will say that I hope Jeff Mathis pans out this year, since he’s my starting catcher in fantasy baseball–yes, I’m both a tool and a loser. Believe me, it’s not hard to do.
By the way, Mac, do we have a policy on talking about fantasy baseball in open threads? Is it like as bad as politics? Or is it okay?
I _do_ follow the minors and I’m skeptical of Russ Martin. The guy clearly has fantastic plate discipline, but he hasn’t really ever hit the ball hard at any level. He only had 27 XBH last year. He is supposed to be a pretty good defensive catcher, and would make an excellent backup, but without at least some power I can’t see him being a major league starter for a long time. Ironically, the guy ahead of him (Dioner Navarro) has a very similar skillset, so it will be interesting to see how the Dodgers proceed in the years to come.
Clement certainly doesn’t have the performance record that Salty does if you only look at the minors, but he has better tools (so I’ve heard) – his swing is reportedly very good, compact lefty swing with loft, with 70 power potential on the scout scale. That said, whether or not he’ll stick at catcher is still up for debate (as it is with Salty, for that matter); whereas Salty is likely to be moved on the basis of organizational needs, Clement is probably about equally likely to move on the basis of lack of skills.
Clement has a higher ceiling than Salty does. Whether he’ll reach it is anyone’s guess. I wouldn’t put him ahead of Jarrod (especially on a catcher prospect list – he might deserve to go above on a top 100 list or something) but I can understand why someone would.
I hear we may trade for Jack Parkman
Sorry, who is Jack Parkman?
(Or did I just miss a joke?)
What about Jac Holtzman?
He is the catcher from Major League 2
He also mispelled his name “Jared”. Should be Jarrod.
After Jordan makes the team, and he will make the team now, how many game will he play at first before he gets hurt? In addition which of the following on him will be hurt:
A) Hamstring
B) Wrist
C) Ankle
D) Knee
E) Thumb
F) Foot or Toe
G) Back
H) Other
YOu can pick more than one.
F and D
I say his knee disintegrates right in front of our very eyes, as he is trying to beat out a swinging bunt
Here is today’s trivia from my Braves desk calendar, (which may or may not be accurate): Who are the 6 Braves who have won the NL Rookie of the Year?
Another trivia question:
Is Vince Young dumb as a post?
The latest word is that Young is smarter than a post but dumber than a living tree.
With the natspos in dire need of a starter, won’t this be the perfect time to dispose of HoRam? supposedly nick johnson is on the block. Laroche + Horam for not so lil nicky?
Dave Justice, Raffy Furcal, Bob Horner. Hmmm.
A few things:
First As a Titan’s fan, I hope that VY isn’t as dumb as the test seems to think he is, as I was already worried about trading down for Jay Cutler, and this makes it more likely. (I’m sure Cutler will be fine and all, really I do. There’s just something about him that bother’s me)
Second, I would love to trade LaRoche and HoRam for Johnson. Even with his injury problems, I think the Braves would win that trade. Bowden’s almost dumb enough to do it too.
Third, off the top of my head I can only think of Furcal and Justice. So I’m gonna go look it up. Good luck to the rest of you.
Heh I only know furcal and justice.
chipper?
I can’t find any park factors for the Wisconsin Timber Rattlers, but even if its generous I’m guessing its not as extreme Myrtle Beach is against hitters. Compact swing, good scouting reports, possibly maybe closer to major league ready, but doesn’t sound like there’s that much more to like about Clement than there is Saltamacchia. If I had a chance to take one over the other, straight up, I’d keep the kid with the power in the pitchers park over the older player at a lower league with positional questions, nice lookin swing or no nice lookin swing.
Chipper came in second to Hideo Nomo in ’95.
For those who want to guess, keep guessing. For those who want to look it up, here’s the link to the B-R ROY page:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/roy_rol.shtml
As much as I like Nick Johnson, he’s the Sam Bowie of firstbasemen. When he gets hurt, you don’t win the trade. Not worth the risk. He’s like Bob Horner witht the chronic wrist.
The other Brave ROYs are Earl Williams, Sam Jethroe & Alvin Dark.
thx, ububba – I wasn’t going to guess those guys no matter how long I tried.
by the way, vince young’s wonderlic score was 16 on a re-test, so he isn’t quite as dumb as initial reports indicated.
The other three … the imortal Earl Williams (early 70s), a catcher of ill repute. He could really hit, but his defensive style was to wait until the ball stoped rolling and then pick it up. Then there is Sam Jethroe (early 50s), a 32 year old veteran from the Negro Leagues, and Alvin Dark (late 40s), a famed race baiter as a player and manager.
Ach, I’ve got to type faster.
And for those who are interested, the second place finishers for NL rookie of the year in years where the award was won by a Brave are:
Rick Ankiel
Delino Deshields
Ozzie Smith
Willie Montanez
Gene Bearden
Bob Miller
My 13 year old brother took the Wonderlic Test last year for something in school. He scored a 20 (which is really good for 13 and same as Michael Vick) That mean Vince Young is on-par with some 13 year olds.
16 is really dumb for a QB (higher than Dan Marino, though). 16 on a retest, though… That’s not good. I assume that they change the questions, but I’d still think that given two chances you could pull it up to average.
Earl Williams is yet another exhibit in the case against the people who ran the Braves in the seventies. When you have a guy who can hit but isn’t a catcher, you shouldn’t keep trying to make a catcher out of him. In 1971, Williams was a 22-year-old who was the third best hitter on the team after Aaron and Garr. He outhit Darrell Evans, who was two years older and would only play another 20 years, and much better than the 22-year-old Dusty Baker. He put up the same numbers basically as Orlando Cepeda did in part-time duty.
But he couldn’t catch, so they ran him down rather than focusing on what he could do, which was hit. Williams could have been a star if they’d made a first baseman out of him. Instead they traded him to the Orioles for Johnson, Dobson, and Oates. Got the one big season out of Johnson.
Have you ever noticed how many future managers the Braves had in that period? Not just guys who managed for a couple years, but longtime managers. Dusty was there for years, of course. They got Johnson and Oates in the Williams trade, like I said. Tony LaRussa played a few games for them in ’71. Of course, in the sixties they had Torre and Alou.
Re: Vince Young was smart enough to tuck it and run on that 4th & goal from the 6, so I’m not gonna make fun of him. Plus, he’ll make more money in 2006 than most of us will see in a lifetime.
Two memories on Earl Williams: During his rookie year, he hit a HR in the upper deck of the new Veterans Stadium in Philly. The next time he came out to bat, Phils’ manager Frank Lucchesi made the ump check his bat. I remember Ernie Johnson saying, “After that last homer, he might be checking for metal.”
I had a friend who grew up in Lutherville, Md., as an Orioles fan. He told me that when the Braves sent Earl Williams to the O’s he came with a big reputation & a big nickname: “Big Money.” But after declining relatively quickly, the O’s fans started calling him “Loose Change.”
So from the discussion about catchers, are the Braves going to move Salty to first? How long before tehy start doing this, will it be this season? If he can field the position somewhat this spring, could he make the team at first?
I think you win a LaRoche + Horacio for Johnson trade even if Johnson’s arms fall off, just by getting LaRoche and Horacio off the team. I couldn’t swear to it, but I’ve got this feeling that LaRoche and Horacio are going to overstay their welcomes, continuing to get chances even after it becomes clear that they’re not what the Braves are expecting them to be. What you don’t have can’t tempt you, in this case.
Johnson, as in Randy? LBJ? Don Johnson? Jack Johnson?
Well, I took that sample Wonderlic thing they had on ESPN.com and scored a 13 out of 15. If that sample is an accurate representation, I would think you’d either have to be a functional illiterate or clinically retarded to only score a 6. And 16 isn’t all that great, either, especially not for a QB.
Nick, Smitty.
—
As for Salty and the position switch, I think we should be patient. The following things need to happen before Salty-to-first becomes a priority:
1. Salty busts up AA and/or AAA with his hitting 2. McCann hits at least that well while with the Braves
3. McCann becomes an excellent defenseive catcher OR Salty becomes an obviously crappy defensive catcher
4. Salty becomes a better hitter than any of our first base options OR Salty requires a spot on the 40 man roster
I don’t think he’s Rule 5 eligible until this winter (possibly even later) so I suspect that both he and McCann will spend this entire next year at catcher. The AFL and Instructional League would be ideal spots for one of the pair to start switching positions if by then all the above conditions had been met.
Even if Salty is a better defender than McCann, I think the Braves would be better off putting Salty at first if McCann’s defence is passable. Salty is a big kid, and being a catcher is not going to help his body.
Ofcourse a unique solution would be to have a rotation between first and c between the 2 of them.
I wouldn’t take the wonderlicmyballs test to seriously, as it has nothing to do with football abillity. If you can play as effortlessly as he can, then who cares if you can add 2+2 and get 5.
as long as you when it is 4th down..
unlike a certain yellow jacket qb 🙁
Justin,
With VY, 2+2=6, not 5.
Quarterback is partly a decision-making position. So you want a QB who can at least figure out that throwing into triple coverage is a bad idea, or that you might not want to throw to the guy running a five-yard curl on third and 16.
Hey Mac I understand that, but that test has nothing to do with making a decision in a split second on the football field. That is just something that is based on reaction and athletic abillity. The wonderlicmyballs test is about academic intelligence, not wether he can decide not to throw into triple coverage. Damn if the wonderlicmyballs test was so important then every ivy league player would get drafted.
Have you ever noticed how many future managers the Braves had in that period? Not just guys who managed for a couple years, but longtime managers. Dusty was there for years, of course. They got Johnson and Oates in the Williams trade, like I said. Tony LaRussa played a few games for them in ’71. Of course, in the sixties they had Torre and Alou.
Famed batting coaches Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak also passed through. Lau played his last few ML games with the Braves in 1967, and Hriniak (later a Lau disciple) was a rookie in 1968. I used to think they probably met as Braves, but looking at BBRef I’m no longer sure. Lau was signed in May 1967 and released in November 1967 — Hriniak was in Richmond that year. Maybe Lau got a spring training invite in the spring of ’68 and they met there — they were both catchers.
Yeah hitting a reciever on a 6 yard curl route on third and 8 is bad. Too bad it is in the Tennessee playbook
you ever try to memorize the playbook in Madden? Consider a Pro Playbook that times 1,000. I’d say it would certainly help a qb to be able to learn at a rate greater than average.
btw, I saw a study somewhere that said that O-Linemen generally scored the highest on the test. Can’t recall it, if I can, I’ll post the link.
Its pretty well known that they do. Centers are about always the highest followed by tackles. Qbs come after that i think.
Most, but not all, defensive positions finish the worst
turns out that the baseballthinkfactory.com has park factors for all major and minor league parks, weighted for the last three years.
(http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/weighted_park_factors_2003_2005/)
So, in the Clement (Low A Wisconsin Timber Rattlers) vs. Salty (High A Myrtle Beach) question:
Team R H 2B HR BB SO
Myrtle Beach 1.01 1.09 1.26 0.76 1.28 1.30
Wisconsin 1.04 1.02 1.09 0.94 1.09 1.08
Its been slightly harder to score runs in Wisconsin, but hitting in general and especially for power, plus BB and SO numbers, are severely skewed against hitters in Myrtle Beach, which we all know, and which makes Salty’s performance compared to Clements look even better. Here’s hoping he steps up in AA this year.
Maybe you need a little assistance with the minor league stuff? 😉