Download file: Atlanta Offensive Leaderboard
Career Top 50 in most major “counting stat” categories for offense, Atlanta Braves only; I will occasionally refer to this, mostly for Chipper but also for Andruw. I’ll do one for the pitchers later.
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Thanks Mac. It’s amazing to see Chipper is about to pass Murphy in almost every offensive categories. Of course, on the other hand, Chipper is playing on better teams than Dale, which help Chipper’s runs and RBIs totals.
Useless fact of the day, Kolb is getting $2M this year after all the craps he put us through last season…
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqvIFFb8vdw64LfYbtJsUBgRvLYF?slug=ap-brewers-kolb&prov=ap&type=lgns
You could have won a lot of bar bets back in 2001 if you’d said that Julio would end up in the top 50 in games played by a Brave.
The main reason why Chipper has better career numbers than Murphy is because he’s a better player than Murphy.
Well, a better hitter, but the biggest difference there is the walks. Actually, the main reason is the era context. Even Fulton County in the eighties wasn’t as good an offensive context as the game has been the last two years.
Holy crap:
Usually I’d go track down primary sources (it’s up on the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel), but Rotoworld just nailed this one.
Its amazing how Chipper and Andruw are close to passing Braves legends..
Whoops, sorry I reposted. My bad.
Still surprised (from a thread or two ago) that the Mets traded yet another starting pitcher (Seo) to get Duaner Sanchez–decent setup guy, but injuries to their rotation become a bigger threat by the day.
Another Julio factoid — Julio is between 44th and 50th in every offensive category listed other than plate appearances and stolen bases.
And who would have guessed Mike Lum as the #5 in games played?
Lum had a lot of pinch-hitting appearances, I guess, because he’s just 15th in plate appearances.
Re: Murph/Chipper
Era context, sure. You could argue that, relative to his era, Murphy was better in his. He does, after all, have 2 MVP awards to Chipper?s single trophy. But when all is said & done, you’d be hard-pressed to give Murph the nod over Chipper. Personally, I’d give him the nod right now.
In fact, Chipper’s numbers are among the greatest all-time for 3Bs. (Yes, I know he played 2+ years in LF.)
Career to date for Chipper, in 11 full years, you?re talking 331 HRs, 1,111 RBI, 1,101 Runs, .303 BA, .401 OBP, .538 SLG, .939 OPS. He had 8 straight 100-RBI seasons when, granted, that was done a lot.
Murph: 15+ years, 398 HR, 1,266 RBI, 1,197 Runs, .265 BA, .346 OBP, .469 SLG, .815 OPS. He had 5 100-RBI seasons when it wasn?t done much.
When comparing Chipper to all HoF 3Bs, only Schmidt & Matthews have more HRs. When you talk OBP & SLG, Chipper Jones has higher numbers than all current HoF 3Bs?including Schmidt & Matthews.
This is not to imply that he?s better all-round, but to indicate that those are numbers on par with the greatest ever at his position. Murphy can?t say that in any category except MVP awards.
Chipper gets the nod right now, that is…
Wow. What a fantastic Rose Bowl game. Too bad I was rooting for USC, but that was some great football. Vince Young is sick.
I don’t know how to react to Dan Kolb getting $2 million after the season he had last year. On the one hand, I want to laugh uncontrollably; on the other hand, I’m kind of angry, because I believe that people should get what they deserve, and AFTER BEING THE WORST FUCKING PITCHER IN BASEBALL he got rewarded with $2 million dollars.
If I was a plumber, and I spent not a week, not a month, but an entire year clogging up people’s pipes with shit, I wouldn’t expect much of a Christmas bonus. Apparently, Dan Kolb is a luckier man than me.
Forgive the language. I guess maybe I’m a bit upset.
Don’t worry AAR, we have seen worse!
Worse language, maybe. Worse pitching, never.
Ok, off topic.
Alex R.We know Danny was not a good pitcher in the Braves.That’s what I think!
By the way, wassup, Danny’s double gore? oh…
OK guys, WHO wants to match up something against a box of some Japanese sweets, that say Dan Kolb does MUCH better than his stats as a Brave in 2006? I haven’t decided how “much better”? Have to do some thinkin’ before I plunk down a number, unless you have one?
I personally think Kolb will be an above average pitcher for the Brewers next year.
Does anyone have an ESPN Insider account to know what Rob Neyer’s column on John Smoltz says. The blurb that I could read said, “John Smoltz has plenty of wins as a starter and several very effective years as a closer, but he’s not a serious HOF candidate.” I’m not sure if I agree or disagree, I think that’s a discussion that should take place after his retirement. I was just curious about his logic and reasoning.
Also, am I the only one who goes to ESPN less and less because of the increased content only available to insider members?
I can’t read Neyer either (there’s almost nothing you can read there for free anymore and I’m not going to pay 40 bucks to subscribe), but he has said that about Smoltz before. I find it hard to believe he wouldn’t be a serious HOF candidate since he has been (in my mind) one of the better pitchers in his generation–although obviously not the best. I think he will be a serious candidate if only because the voters aren’t likely to be sabergeeks like Neyer. People will remember his big save years and his ability to come back and start. I think he will make it–whether or not he actually deserves it is a different question.
Does anyone actually have insider for ESPN. I would be interested in seeing what this article is about.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=2279942&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dneyer_rob%26id%3d2279942
The title was Smoltz isn’t a Hall of Famer and would be compared to Eck…
The Phillies just signed Ryan Franklin for their 2006 rotation. That should be good for 10-15 losses, easy, especially with him pitching in that ballpark. One less team to worry about in the NL East next year…
csg,
I have Insider. The basic gist of the part about Smoltz is that he’s a good pitcher but when you compare his numbers to Eckersley (wins was Neyer’s main problem; *sigh*) he’s not HOF-worthy.
Here’s the relevant portion (it’s not much of the article, so I hope this is okay, Mac):
“As a starter, Smoltz has won 173 games. As a closer, he’s got three excellent seasons. As a starter, Dennis Eckersley won 149 games. As a closer, he posted five excellent seasons (and just as many decent seasons).
Eckersley was elected to the Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility. Smoltz doesn’t have to match Eckersley’s accomplishments, but I do think the voters will have Eckersley in mind when they’re considering Smoltz. And at this point, Smoltz’s accomplishments simply don’t match Eckersley’s.
And yes, there is the postseason. Legendary, though? Hardly. Fair or not, more is made of Jack Morris’s singular performance in Game 7 of the 1991 World Series than of Smoltz’s 2.65 ERA in 207 postseason innings. You and I know that Smoltz would get more credit for his fantastic Octobers if the Braves had won more World Series than they have. You and I also know that if anybody’s blameless for the Braves’ October failures, it’s Smoltz. But when voters do give extra credit for postseason success — Catfish Hunter, Rollie Fingers, probably Mariano Rivera someday — they reward those who played on winning teams. And for all the Braves’ successes, nobody thinks of them as a winning postseason team. So while Smoltz will get some credit for that 2.65 ERA, he won’t get a lot. Considering that he’s won more than 17 games in a season only once, I would guess he doesn’t get more than a sniff from the voters until he’s won at least 225 games in his career. He’s four seasons away from doing that, and in a few months he’ll turn 39.
Realistically, then, he’s not on the fence. Realistically, he’s still got plenty of work to do. “
The Insider Article for you guys:
As usual, a column about the Hall of Fame resulted in a great deal of e-mail. And since it’s been a few days since anybody spent far too much money on a starting pitcher, let’s send some of that e-mail out to the big, wide world.
Smoltz
Peter: I always enjoy your take on things, but aren’t you forgetting John Smoltz? The guy is legendary in the postseason. He’s got 177 wins and 154 saves, and won a Cy Young. I feel like his career is more or less as impressive as Glavine’s. Plus, he’s still very effective these days, whereas Glavine seems to be hanging on by a tenuous thread. At least put him on the fence!
Rob: “On the fence” means that a player’s got a decent case, right now, for the Hall of Fame. And I don’t think Smoltz is quite there yet.
As a starter, Smoltz has won 173 games. As a closer, he’s got three excellent seasons. As a starter, Dennis Eckersley won 149 games. As a closer, he posted five excellent seasons (and just as many decent seasons).
Eckersley was elected to the Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility. Smoltz doesn’t have to match Eckersley’s accomplishments, but I do think the voters will have Eckersley in mind when they’re considering Smoltz. And at this point, Smoltz’s accomplishments simply don’t match Eckersley’s.
And yes, there is the postseason. Legendary, though? Hardly. Fair or not, more is made of Jack Morris’s singular performance in Game 7 of the 1991 World Series than of Smoltz’s 2.65 ERA in 207 postseason innings. You and I know that Smoltz would get more credit for his fantastic Octobers if the Braves had won more World Series than they have. You and I also know that if anybody’s blameless for the Braves’ October failures, it’s Smoltz. But when voters do give extra credit for postseason success — Catfish Hunter, Rollie Fingers, probably Mariano Rivera someday — they reward those who played on winning teams. And for all the Braves’ successes, nobody thinks of them as a winning postseason team. So while Smoltz will get some credit for that 2.65 ERA, he won’t get a lot. Considering that he’s won more than 17 games in a season only once, I would guess he doesn’t get more than a sniff from the voters until he’s won at least 225 games in his career. He’s four seasons away from doing that, and in a few months he’ll turn 39.
Realistically, then, he’s not on the fence. Realistically, he’s still got plenty of work to do.
Italics tags are off. Everything after the first italicized sentence is also Neyer’s work.
Dave, the Phillies have had a rather curious offseason: by unloading Jim Thome and Billy Wagner, and bringing in Ryan Franklin and Aaron Rowand as ostensible replacements, they’ve managed to do BOTH addition by subtraction and subtraction by addition.
I’m not sure what you end up with, but we all know that “Stand Pat” Gillick won’t be doing much to change it during the season, which means they’ll be seeing a lot of Alfonso Soriano and Jim Bowden at the basement of the NL East.
Once Smoltz reaches 200 wins, dont you think that would be sufficient to get him enough votes for the Hall. How many pitchers have 200 wins and 150 saves in their career? Also looking at his post season numbers just helps to build his credentials (2.65 ERA in 207 postseason innings. )
What do you think, am I way off?
I love the Smoltz HoF conversation. It’ll become one of the really fun topics after he’s retired. Even though I like to consider myself a bit of a hard marker for HoF, I tend to think Smoltz’ll get into Cooperstown. Personally, I’ll wait until his retirement to fully evaluate him.
Having had that conversation with a lot of baseball fans, most of them point to the fact that he’s a great big game pitcher and he’s the biggest post-season winner in history. Only fools would hold the “Braves’ lack of post-season success” against Smoltz.
For what it’s worth, I can tell you that most non-Brave fans absolutely detest the Braves, but they respect Smoltz tremendously. They don’t vote for HoF, but they are indicative of the mostly positive feelings toward Smoltz.
And if you don’t think likability keeps some players out of the HoF, let me introduce you to Jim Rice. And in a few years, Albert “Joey” Belle.
Jenny that was a fantastic Rose Bowl game, and I am glad that the rest of the country has finally gotten to see what a great football player looks like. Hook’em Horns!
right now I don’t think Smoltz warrants induction. But then, I don’t think Eckersley warranted induction either. He was a good-but-not-great starter and a good-but-not-great closer. Yes, he had one hell of a peak as a closer – in extremely limited innings – but he also had several years of complete mediocrity as a closer, racking up saves with league-average pitching. Overall, I look at him as good but not great for his career, elected as a novelty but not really deserving.
The pitchers similar to Smoltz, by simscores, generally are not Hall of Famers or realistic Hall of Fame candidates. At the same time, nobody’s really that similar because nobody has 170-plus wins and nearly 200 saves. Uniqueness is itself a Hall of Fame argument.
Chuck S: ESPN is hardly worth the effort. I’m not a big fan of pay-for-read.
Thanks for the list Mac, it’s always fun to see where the current players stand against past players.
Phillies signing Franklin is curious considering the bandbox they play in. I’ve always considered him a fly ball pitcher, and even in Seattle, which plays much bigger than Philadelphia’s stadium, he was prone to giving up home runs. That aside, he can eat up innings, and maybe that’s all Gillick remembers.