ESPN.com – MLB – Recap – Angels at Braves
This is a horrible nightmare. I’m going to wake up and then it will go away.
No, didn’t work.
Johnny Estrada was leveled by Darrin Erstad when blocking the plate (trying to cut off the game-tying run) in the eighth. It looks like a concussion, though obviously I don’t know. There’s a good chance that either Marte or Johnson is going to have to go down to make room for a catcher, assuming that Estrada doesn’t go on the DL.
Smoltz was actually perfect for 4 2/3 innings, and took a shutout to the sixth. So, of course, he lost. He wound up allowing 13 hits in 8 1/3, including a couple of doubles, to a pretty weak Angels lineup. (Vlad Guerrero is on the DL.) John Foster came in to finish the ninth.
The Braves offense started well. They got some hits and were working the counts, and sooner or later would score some runs that way. LaRoche hit a two-run homer in the fourth to give them the lead. And then, it was like they started thinking, “Okay, we have a lead, time for me to try to hit a homer.” Furcal, who worked the count and had two hits in his first two AB, decided to swing wildly from then on. When they did get runners on, they’d strike out; the sixth, eighth, and ninth innings all ended with strikeouts with runners in scoring position.
Betemit got the start at third and continued to look good at the plate, doubling twice. Not so good on the basepaths; after leading off the third with his first double, he was picked off, which probably cost the Braves at least one run. It’s typical that the one guy who’s doing really well would have to sit to make room for Marte. I’m of the play Betemit at short school now, but I’m really cheesed at Furcal.
Horacio versus Paul Byrd tomorrow. Who will get hurt next?
I don’t know that either Johnson or Marte would be sent down to make room for a catcher – especially not with Furcal still hurting. I’d expect it’s more likely for Greisinger to go down, and one of the other pitchers on the 40-man to come up to take the next start. Thursday’s an off day, so you can juggle the rotation to make that work.
That’s what I’d do, but I can’t recall the Braves ever manipulating the roster like that.
I don’t even know who the catcher would be, if it’s not Eddie reactivated. Jean Boscan, the primary catcher at Richmond now, is hitting .186 and has struck out 31 times in 86 AB. Iker Franco, the backup, is hitting .214. They obviously aren’t going to call up McCann just to sit.
Did Erstad truck Estrada intentionally? I didn’t see the game, and the guys on the Braves forum are ripping each other apart as to Erstad’s intent. Some people are saying he deliberately went out of the baseline and broadsided Estrada when he wasn’t looking, others are saying it was a clean hit. The result is the same, but I really want to know. Hopefully Johnny will be OK soon. At least he got up to get the ball. When Marcus got hit by Prior, he was out cold for almost a minute. That turned out to look a lot worse than it was, hopefully this will be the same.
We had a chance to win this game. We got hits and didn’t produce runs from them, and then coupling that with what I’m going to call Erstad’s dirty play b/c I’m a Braves fan and have to support my team, this was not a game we should have lost. I don’t know if I should be more worried about the piling up of losses or the piling up of injuries. I think the injuries are worse, because they directly contribute to the pile of losses. Here’s hoping Johnny’s OK and he’ll be back soon!
I don’t know who will be sent back down. We have 7 available infielders: Franco, LaRoche, Marcus, Furcal, Betemit, Marte, and Orr, and 5 available outfielders: Andruw, Langerhans, KJ, Orr, and Jordan. Am I missing anyone? That leads me to believe Marte, however unfortunate this may be, will be sent down, at least temporarily (however long Johnny is out).
Knowing our luck, the baseball gods will decide it’s high time Marcus runs into something else. Put him in football pads until Furcal is healthy again!
I just saw the replay. It was just one of those things. You have to decide about half-way down the line, if not sooner, whether to slide or try to take the catcher out when a throw is coming. He decided to take him out. He ended up going a little out of the line to do it, but he’d already made up his mind by then. It’s a timing thing. If you think the ball will beat you and the catcher is set up, you have to take him out. Not that I wouldn’t mind the Braves getting angry about it, of course. I’d take any motivation at this point.
We will have to wait and see on Estrada’s injury. If he goes on the DL I would expect E. Perez to come off even though he’s not 100%. Marte I belive will be around a couple of weeks. If he does stay I think Betemit takes time away from Furcal. Let Wilson lead off with is 457 obp.
Unless there’s another injury, whoever goes down has to stay there for 10 days. So, really, the only one that does make any sense is Griesinger, or however you spell his name. If they do it right now, they can bring him back in time to make another start and only have to maybe pitch one guy on three days rest, right?
And, no, it wouldn’t make sense to bring up McCann. But Pena can make enough starts to give Johnny plenty of rest… certainly with an off-day coming. We just need somebody better in an emergency than Orr would be.
I’d send johnson down. He sucks and Orr can play the outfield when Jordan goes down tomarrow night diving for a ball he could catch w/o running.
This is stupid, we need to go get a bat. This team needs a spark. Maybe Johnny Estrada going down will motivate the team because Chipper is not there to tell them not to have fun and be motivated.
Why is Kelly Johnson hitting third? There is no reason that should be happening. He needs to hit 8th (or 9th when Hampton comes back.)
Well maybe the AAA Braves will scire their 2 runs tomarrow and HR won’t give up more than 1 round tripper.
I think we can count on there being another injury.
Who will get hurt next?
A list of suspects:
1) Jordan (we ar not that lucky)
2) Smoltz
3) Giles
4) WB
5) Furcal
I’d also like to be the first to say, I bet there is a fight in this homestand. Tomorrow night, I am calling it now! Maybe this is just what the Braves need.
I though it was a clean hit. Good baseball, even. I’d hope any of our guys would do the same. Johnny just happened to turn into the collision in an unfortunate stance and got creamed. What I didn’t notice is how hard the back of his head hit the ground. That is waaay more dangerous than being hit in the forehead. I’m sure we’ll find out soon enough. Smitty, you are right, there will be some payback for Urstad tomorrow. Hope nobody gets suspended, that’s the last thing we need right now.And yeah, there will be another injury, probably Betemit, or Davies, or Pena the way things are going.
We do need a bat. None of our outfielders can hit. I think KJ will break out, but let’s not let him work it out in the three hole. DL furcal and ride Betemit. Marte gets his shot, maybe he is the spark? Keep everything crossed and wear your rally cap all day tomorrow! Braves win 6-1.
If I’m Bobby I plunk that first Angels hitter tomorrow night. You got to send a message and protect your guys. Drill him.
My bets are on Marcus, just because he’s so talented at suffering catastrophic injuries at horribly inopportune moments.
The helmet probably protected Johnny from getting anything like a skull fracture but I’m still very scared.
You could wait one hitter and plunk Erstad, though.
What do you think he’ll get? Stinger in the back? I wouldn’t think a head shot would be against “the rules”, in this particular case.
Some thoughts as I ponder the symmetry of finishing this great 14 year run with a first to worst season.
-It seems clear that Smoltz is deciding when to take himself out of games. He’s sort of the anti-Maddux in that regard. Where as Maddux would pull himself an inning too early to protect his ERA, Smoltz invariabley goes out there at least one inning too long and sees his ERA go up as a result. It would bother me more if our bullpen didn’t suck so much.
-That was a good play by Erstad. If Bobby orders a plunking tomorrow, I’ll be surprised and dissappointed. That was the winning run and Erstad did what he need to do to score. I wish we had some guys with that fire. I can’t imagine anyone on our roster, save Jordan, doing that.
-The Kelly Johnson experiment. Please make it stop. He’s a walking rally killer. Enough is enough, even Brian Jordan is preferable. If we act now maybe he can still make the AAA All Star game. Sure to be the first of many for him.
nyb, Erstad has every intention to hurt Estrada, or he just forgot he was playing baseball rather than football. That guy was looking to make a tackle. He had the whole right side of the plate to slide to, but he preferred to hit someone instead. If that’s what makes Erstad famous, than I have no respect for the guy.
Erstad’s play at the plate was important, but the Braves also gave up a run on a bad balk call. I hate to go on about the umpiring, but that call cost the Braves just as much.
Just watched the replay on MLB.com. It was a dirty play. Estrada had none of the plate and Erstad never went in the direction of the plate. Hit him with the left forearm in the chest or face. He had to climb over Estrada to get back and tag it. btw, he was a Punter, not a football player.
Darin Erstad is playing the way his Manager thinks he should play. Mike Scoscia likens himself to some “National League” guru in the A.L.
I agree plunk an Angel tomorrow–I vote for Garrett Anderson and make sure you knock his ass out of the game. Stupid CALIFORNIA Raisins. I hate them. Why don’t they go back to somewhere in California where they belong?
Estrada’s spot on the roster–I keep reading all this talk about “choosing” between Marte & KJ or Marte and someone else–HELLO F*NG NO!
Have you people lost your mind? If EVER there was an opening to DUMP Brian Jordan or Kolbb, this is IT. Maybe we should just have 6 relievers…our hitting is the real culprit. I mean, Bobby finally DOESN’T go to the bullpen and leaves Smoltz out there (which I agreed with because to be fair to Cox, he’s been criticized by me & many for his bullpen use so why not let your best starter pitch) & then Smoltz tires bhut the offense doesn’t help.
I mean, John Smoltz vs. JOHN FREAKING LACKER OF THE CALIFORNIA RAISINS and we lose!?!?! It’s Andruw’s fault, Mac, and everyone else on the offense.
But still…if we were getting ANYTHING from Andruw….mr. “superstar”.
I still think it’s too early to jump off of the Kelly Johnson bandwagon. Maybe some of you were never on it, but it’s been less than 30 plate appearances. Yes, he should be hitting lower down in the order. I actually like the fact that Cox threw him right into the 3 hole, and he definitely profiles as a top of the order hitter, but it’s time to slide him down… it didn’t work out, and that’s ok. This isn’t OJT, the guy is ready to be given a shot in the big leagues. And to suggest that this brief time proves he maxed out at AAA is ridiculous. There’s no reason at all to think he can’t be a good major league player. He may not turn out to be, but we don’t know that yet… not even close.
I think that the Erstad play was unfortunate, but it wasn’t dirty. HOWEVER, I say plunk an angel tonight, and fight him like the devil if he comes to the mound… great, now that damned song will be stuck in my head all day. ARGH!
It was a marginal play. Erstad’s an aggressive player I’m sure Erstad didn’t intend to hurt Estrada, but he had an alternative rather than bowling him over. Still, there’s a fine line between what’s legitimate and what’s not and I’m sure it’s hard to know in a split second. He probably wishes he had gone around him. It seems to me Estrada was doing everything right–he was blocking the plate with his foot, not his body so there was no reason to knock him over.
Apparently Johnny has a concussion and a probable neck injury and will miss at least 4 games. This was from the radio, so it hasn’t really been confirmed, but it seems appropriate based on what we saw. I think a nice fat fastball in somebody’s butt where you can’t mistake the intention would be perfect. Something has to get this club going. I didn’t think the play was dirty initially, but I thought Erstad took it too far. And then to walk away without even looking at Estrada and have the nerve to yell back at Eddie Perez? He needs to shut his fat mouth. Classless.
Watch the replay from behind Erstad as he’s running home (in essence, you get to see what he saw.) Clear view to the plate, but he instead chose to apply a tackle that’s probably illegal in football!
Julio Franco should use his massive forearms to crush Erstad’s head like a walnut. (This is a common fantasy I have.)
No, it was a clean play. What happens a lot is that a catcher will set up where Estrada was, and then as the player starts sliding, they will come across the plate and block it with a leg. Erstad’s manager, Mike Scoisca, was a master at doing that, and I’ve seen plenty of other catchers do that. With Erstad’s football background, and the ball beating him to the plate like it did, he’s going to go try to run over the catcher every time.
It’s unfortunate for Johnnie that he got hit in the head, and worse how he hit the ground afterwards, but it was a clean play. Erstad used his shoulder, not his forearm or head, and he looked to be aiming for Johnnie’s shoulder or upper body. Estrada was kind of in a crouch, and his head was exposed.
On the other hand, yes, I think you’ll see Erstad get plunked. Probably not in first inning though, otherwise the umps will probably toss HoRam.
Still, maybe this is the spark that the team needs. Sort of like what happened to the Astros with Oswalt and the Cubs’ Barrett last summer.
Thing is, he didn’t run over Estrada on the way to the plate, which is what it looks like when you view the replay from behind Estrada. When you look at it from behind Erstad, he fairly clearly ran past/parallel to the plate, injuring Estrada in the process, then had to go back to tag the base.
I guess we just see it differently. Crush away, Julio!
In the Pirates series, everyone was falling all over themselves praising Giles for his hard side into 2B, which set up Julio’s game-winning RBI. Anyone who says Erstad’s play was dirty is being hypocritical. Assume this scenario: One of our guys (Say, Andruw) is coming in to score the winning run and jogs in standing when the catcher receives the ball. He gets tagged out. Andruw is ripped for being “soft.” Braves lose. Giles is our Erstad.
Dave, I didn’t see the Giles slide you were talking about.. Was it into 2B, or was it a few feet to the side of the 2B, into the Pirates’ player? If it’s the former, it’s not analogous.
Dave, I didn’t see the Giles slide you were talking about.. Was it into 2B, or was it a few feet to the side of the 2B, into the Pirates’ player? If it’s the former, it’s not analogous.
Giles launched himself at Jack Wilson at, over, and through the bag, in a clear attempt to take his legs out and prevent a solid throw. Good hard baseball.
Erstad launched himself at Estrada within 6 inches of the plate (not even remotely “a few feet”) in a clear attempt to knock the ball out of Estrada’s glove. As long as a player is allowed to set up infront of the plate before receiving the ball, as Estrada did with his pivot foot (something the rule book clearly prohibits), there will be collisions at home. It was a clean, but hardnosed play.
That doesn’t mean the Braves shouldn’t retaliate. I like the generally professional and relaxed atmosphere driving towards 162 games instead of a football contest once a week. But sometimes, an emotion builder can help.
But I clearly wouldn’t have HoRam go headhunting. If he does, he gets tossed and probably suspended for a game or two. Do you really want to have the bullpen pitch 8+ innings tonight? Do you really want Richmonds’s #3 starter getting a game under his belt for the big squad?
Hey, maybe we’ve found the perfect role for Danny Kolb! Now if we can just get his targeting sufficient to dust Erstad instead of throwing it 6′ up the line.
What would be cool as hell would be Danny Kolb starting! He could just plunk people until he gets tossed. Man, now that would be fun. No way it happens, and certainly Cox would be suspended for somewhere around a 15 days for such an obvious ploy. But it sure would be some fun.
Regardless, when someone runs over your catcher, you gotta do something. Could you imagine what happens to the team if anyone from the Braves goes in front of the media and says it was a clean play. Hell no, their gonna say “We’re pissed about our cathcer getting run over over.”
Creynolds, I had the same idea, except I’m not sure KolBB could hit anyone. I say name Sosa the starter, have him nail Erstad hard in the back or butt or legs his first time up, get tossed, bring in Horam.
Dan Kolb could not find home plate with a map. If he aims to hit something, he will not hit it. Maybe if he just plunks someone by accident that would work, but if he makes a conscious effort he will fail, like he always does.
Still no official news on Estrada. I didn’t read the part of the AJC article that said he was still in the hospital in the early morning. That doesn’t sound good. If Erstad hit him hard enough to get a 4-inch gash on his shoulder, imagine what happened to Johnny.
Grammar’s off a bit today.
Dont count on Horacio to hit Erstad tonight, his control on the fast ball is not that good.
I agree with the sentiment to bring in Dan KolBB to drill Erstad’s Cornhusker cheeseball a***s. Erstad is a total neck who deserves to be plunked just b/c he looks like a cross between former huskers Tom Rathman & Cory Schellinger. Let’s see how Mrs. erstad likes it when somebody goes “black shirts” on his cheezestache face.
Just tell KolBBie to aim it right down the plate and Dan the wild thing will certainly drill Erstad. KolBB is a big old boy in his own right.
He can handle a charge to the mound.
It will at least give KolBB some props from other teammates. KolBB can be suspended it would actually be a GOOD thing.
AJC Update: Estrada is out of the hospital with no head or neck injuries, but no news on the concussion tests. If he doesn’t have one, I’ll be wondering what his skull is made of. This is excellent for him. No decision on the DL yet…
Maybe we should start Dan KolBB and get him to plunk Erstad 🙂
It is just putting the lead off man on bse, I am sure he can get a double play after that !
Though one thing I doubt is if Kolb can throw it straight enough to plunk Erstad
Hmmm…the Kolb option IS intriguing. Just one question, though: Say he comes in and nails Erstad, and Erstad then charges the mound. Do we stop him, or just enjoy the mutual pummelling?
Just kidding. I think….