Giants 9, Braves should have forfeited

San Francisco Giants vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – July 16, 2012 – ESPN.

I will consider this game to be the equivalent of the clawed red monsters in the movie The Village: Those We Don’t Speak Of. It would be best if we put it out of mind, paid it no attention, and organized our lives in such a way that we did not think of it, did not talk about it, did not trouble ourselves with it. It was foul, evil, and scarring.

Also, it really sucked.

367 thoughts on “Giants 9, Braves should have forfeited”

  1. Jurrjens still looks done. I remain confused how, after pitching awfully in AAA, he somehow solidified a rotation spot in June while Delgado was sent down.

  2. Although it was uncomfortably humid & the game wasn’t much to see—save an Andruw 3-run HR—kinda glad I went up to The Bronx for Yanks/Jays instead of sitting thru this debacle.

    Got home & just deleted the whole game on DVR without watching one pitch.

    Get ’em tomorrow.

  3. ububba, if you’re looking for TV recs I’ve been enjoying the new Sherlock on BBC. A clever, humorous, hyper-kinetic update of the classic character! -sansho1 So far they’ve done two seasons of three 90-minute episodes each, so it’s more like settling in to watch a movie. The machine-gun patter can be hard to decipher at times, but otherwise it’s really good.

  4. It’s just a bad game. This was one of the 60-something games the Braves were going to lose no matter what. The other team is out there trying to win too.

    Having said that, I do feel fortunate that a friend asked me to play softball last night so that I missed watching the game.

  5. Wow, a Village reference. Good stuff.

    How far out away Gilmartin? Seems to be doing OK in AA.

  6. Jurrjens still looks done. I remain confused how, after pitching awfully in AAA, he somehow solidified a rotation spot in June while Delgado was sent down.

    Its even more crazy how some are speculating that the Braves might not need another starter after signing Sheets. The love for his one start is way overblown. I hope it continues, but this rotation has a lot of issues even with a healthy sheets. Can we give back that bag of peanuts and get Scott Diamond back?

  7. Looks like Gilmartin has thrown a combined 4.2IP in his last 2 starts.

    Btw, Buddy Carlyle is quietly putting together a nice AAA season.
    50IP 46H 10BB 48K 2.34ERA

  8. Let’s dive a bit deeper into Jurrjens outing…
    1st inning: Leadoff walk, but missed call at 2nd on a pitchout steal leads to a run. Posey was credited with a double but would’ve been a dead duck had Prado not bobbled the ball in LF.

    3rd inning: Double given up to Melky that should have been a single had it not been lazily played by Bourn(and was probably still out at 2nd on a high tag). Posey singles to LF, Prado, who had a play at home, bobbles the ball again and Melky scores.

    4th inning: Pagan with an infield single that is an out if Freeman stays on the bag and lets Uggla take it. It should have still been an out if Jurrjens had better footwork. Single puts runners on the corners. Steal (with no attempt to throw the runner out) puts runners at 2nd and 3rd. Chipper misses tough catch to score 2 runs. Then it gets ugly…

    So, let me ask this? Did Jurrjens really pitch that bad? With a bit of good defense, he could have been through 4 scoreless only giving up one extra base hit, or maybe none.
    I challenge anyone that has MLBTV to go watch the condensed game and come up with a different conclusion. There were no charged errors in this game, but average defense from an above average LF, CF, and adequate defense from a 1b,2b, P, and 3b gets this game into the bottom of the 4th unscathed.

    However, this is going to happen to a guy like Jurrjens who can’t strike out a batter to save his life. His K/9 is now down to 3.8. YIKES!

  9. Well, JJ has been pretty good since coming back up form AAA. The Braves aren’t going to make a panic move and send him back down, nor should they.

    We are going to get another pitcher and JJ will be the 5th stater. It will all be okay. We just won seven in a row.

  10. Any chance we could swing a deal together for King Felix? I’m assuming that conversations starts with both Delgado and Teheran?

  11. So, let me ask this? Did Jurrjens really pitch that bad?

    Yes, his command was awful. His defense and the missed call couldve helped him, but it doesnt change the fact that he couldnt locate his fastball or breaking pitches.

    1. On the Posey single, he had him to two strikes and Bmac wanted a change up low and away off of the plate. Jurrjens gave him a belt high change that came directly over the plate.

    3. Prado didnt really have a play at the plate on the Posey single and it was another poorly located pitch.

    4. Common theme again. Jurrjens cant pitch with his current velocity without locating all of his pitches. He also didnt cover 1B properly which led to his big inning.

    Last night was a total disaster for the whole team facing a punchless Giants offense and Barry Zito.

    #14 – Dont tease me.

  12. Why would the Angels want to move any of their starters? They are leading the Wild Card.

  13. @18 – Haren’s on the DL, but coming back this sunday. He’s pitched pretty poorly for them, but has the track record to justify going after him. They are speculating that the Angels will pass on his $15.5 option for next season.

  14. Just saw that the Cardinals are considered, a small market/low revenue team and therefore will receive draft pick consideration. Their revenues have to be higher than the Braves’.

  15. I would include Uggla in the package for Felix Hernandez. Minor, Delgado, Spruill, Cunningham and Uggla might do it. We don’t have a #1 starter, and they come in handy, especially in a one game wild card playoff. Moving Uggla makes the remaining years on Hernandez’ contract possible for the Braves.

  16. @15
    Go back and look at his locations. Hardly any of his pitches, until the 4th inning when his defense (his own included) caught the middle of the plate. His location wasn’t that bad. Many want to bash him without really looking at what went wrong last night. I’m not saying Jurrjens pitched great, but he deserved much better than 8ER. If luck/defense turned his way, it could have been 0-0 going to the 4th.

    Furthermore, picking one pitch to justify that his location was off isn’t an argument. Yes, he hung that pitch, I’ll give you that. He actually hung 2 to Posey and Posey made him pay twice, but he should have been out of the 1st inning before facing him.

  17. #15 – Watched the whole game and Im not bashing him. He had a terrible game, just like all starters did. However, he made a ton of mistakes. So did his defense. Im not the only one who noticed that.

    Fredi – “I think his command. The command wasn’t as good as we’ve seen it before

    Jurrjens – “I didn’t have my command. I was battling to get strike 1. They’re a good team, and I made a lot of bad pitches and they got hit

    I also wasnt using one pitch to justify his command was off. He gave up 8 hits, 3BB, with only 1 K in 3.1IP. His defense didnt help him and he didnt help himself.

  18. I wasn’t watching the game; listening on the radio, so I can’t say what his command looked like. But I kept asking myself “How many outs do they expect this guy to get?”

  19. If he’s struggling with command, maybe he should throw a couple of Tommy Hanson specials in there each inning and miss the target by several feet, just to add an element of danger to the proceedings.

  20. These commenters at the AJC really know where it’s at. I like this trade idea.

    “1.- trade for Greinke, Liriano or Felix Hernandez in exchange for MINOR/DELGADO, PASTORNICKY AND LOW LEVEL PROSPECT”

    Why the hell doesn’t Wren do this? Surely, this would be enough to get Felix Hernadez. And, while he’s at it, why not trade Jack Wilson for Josh Hamilton? I realize we really don’t need Hamilton but if Wren was a real GM, he would do this. C’mon Frank, get off your ass.


    Why would the Mariners want Uggla? If they’re trading Felix Hernandez for prospects, what sense would it make to take Uggla.

  21. #24 – Yes the defense was equally as bad. Bmac made an awful throw, Bourn loafed getting a ball thrown back in, Chipper forgot to bend over on a Zito grounder, and Prado had some issues. Total team piss poor performance.

  22. @23
    I watched the game too and I saw it differently. And of his 8 hits that he gave up, many were given after he should have been out of the inning, and 2-3 of them should have been outs. I will not say he pitched well, but every inning, whether it was a blown call or a defensive blunder (granted there were only 3 1/3 innings), Jurrjens had to throw more pitches than needed. Was his location great? Not great, but definitely not awful in my eyes. Did he pitch as bad as he did the first part of the year? Absolutely not. He kept the Giants to what should have been singles and gave our players an opportunity to make plays which they didn’t.

  23. 1.- trade for Greinke, Liriano or Felix Hernandez in exchange for MINOR/DELGADO, PASTORNICKY AND LOW LEVEL PROSPECT

    Hernandez for Delgado, Pastornicky and Filak. Git-‘er-done Wren.

  24. Have anything to do with population? I believe St Louis it about 60th in total city population while Atlanta is around 40 or so.

  25. The 10 teams with the smallest markets automatically qualify, if I recall correctly. As do the 10 teams with the smallest revenue.

  26. I wonder if a team’s revenues include their media rights deals. Because logically they should….

  27. I am hoping this team packed all of its streaky suck into last night’s game.

    Was The Village M. Night’s last good movie?

    Can I say again, letting Redmond go seems like it could look a lot like letting Diamond go looks now?

  28. Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale
    If the ‪#Marlins‬ do decide they’re out of it, Anibal Sanchez and Josh Johnson also will go. ‪#Braves‬ have expressed interest in Sanchez.

  29. Guys,

    Is it common for a manager to be barred from being a professional reference on a external employment application?

  30. I was going to say 4/48 FWIW. You put his numbers at 3B and he’s top 5 in baseball.

  31. mravery you may be right, but his a lot of his value is tied up in BA. He’s got enough of a track record that you can expect a higher batting average consistantly but if he has an unlucky (or unhealthy like last year) year he doen’t have much value at all especially at a corner.

  32. I’d look at Prado’s career rather than a year he got hurt. (Happens to everyone.) He’s been right around .825 more often than not, and obviously was awful last year. If he was a full-time 3B, that would put him 5th in MLB now behind Wright, Cabrera, Beltre and Freese (wut?). If you want to ding him for last year, slide Aramis Ramirez ahead, too. Further note that he’s better defensively then at least a couple of those guys.

    At 3B, Prado is an all-star in his best seasons and a near-miss in his less-than-great. I don’t think there’s any reason to think he’s injury-prone, and you know he’s a hard worker and a guy you want in the clubhouse. Extending him should be a priority, and I go $12M per year to do it. I hope the Braves won’t have to, but I think he could get something close to that on the open market.

  33. (EDIT TO ABOVE: That’s an .825 OPS, and I was referring to his standing relative to other MLB players this year in terms of OPS and restricting my search to BA title qualifiers. If you extend it to all 3Bs, you’d almost certainly have to put Longoria ahead of him, too, although Longoria appears to have consistent injury issues.)

  34. I guess my point on Prado is not that he’s not worth it, because he has been between .800 and .825 4 of the last 5 years and he does add defensive value though that may decline with age. But he also doesn’t walk much and doesn’t hit many HRs for a corner so most of his offensive value comes from his ability to hit for a .300+ average. It seems he can do that pretty consistanly last year notwithstading but we all know BA can have a lot to do with luck too (though I think there’s more skill involved than most do).

  35. I you would have told me at the beginning of the year that we’d have a worse record than the Pirates and the Nationals after the All Star Break I would have assumed that meant we were in last place. I definitely saw improvement coming with the Nats, but Pittsburgh’s success has caught me off guard.

  36. @55 – Couldn’t agree more. Those thinking the Braves have a chance of trading and then signing Greinke are delusional unless Pappa Liberty opens up the coin purse.

  37. Those thinking the Braves have a chance of trading and then signing Greinke are delusional unless Pappa Liberty opens up the coin purse.

    They could without Liberty Media doing as much. The Braves have a lot of money coming off the books.

  38. #59 – Its because Andrew McCutchen is the NL’s version of a healthy Josh Hamilton. Well, he’s close at least.

  39. Well, the Phillies are up 3-1, top 10th now. Baring a miracle, they will sweep the Dodgers at Dodger Stadium.

    They are still the team to beat IMHO. We lead them by 9.5 games, but that’s nothing, as we all learned last year.

  40. Pop fly single, infield single to drive in those two runs.

    In other happenings, Brandon Hicks hit a walk-off homer for the A’s.

  41. I hope for but do not expect the Braves to pick up a top of the rotation starter. I don’t believe Liberty will providesufficient funds to sign such a pitcher to a market value contract, nor do I believe the Braves will be willing to exchange top tier prospects for a short term rental. In fact, Iwould prefer the Braves not mortgage the future for an ace for this year only.

  42. He’s not exactly hitting the cover off of the ball though, so I doubt many that have seen him hit would be pining exactly :)

  43. It makes me sad when people pine for Buddy Carlyle. We really should be better than that.

    But I guess you could contend that he’d be better than Jurrjens or MiMi at this point.

  44. I remain confused how, after pitching awfully in AAA, he somehow solidified a rotation spot in June while Delgado was sent down.

    Jurrjens was pitching okay until yesterday’s start. Failgado has been bad for the Atlanta Braves all season.

    Jones again reiterated today that the Braves need another top of the rotation starter. This team won’t go anywhere with whatever combination of Delgado-Jurrjens-Minor sucking up 40% of starts.

  45. I don’t think Delgado deserves any derisive nicknames just yet.

    4.12 xFIP and better than a 50% groundball rate out of a 22 year-old…that’s not bad. If he can improve his command, he’ll realize his potential, maybe next year.

  46. I think Wren has done a pretty good job overall. But not selling high on Jurrjens — not even trying to — is going to go down as a black mark on his record.

    This time last year, I wouldn’t have understood the reasoning behind making such a move. But I’m not being paid to understand what makes performances like Jurrjens’ 2011 season unsustainable, either.

  47. Jurrjens was pitching okay until yesterday’s start. Failgado has been bad for the Atlanta Braves all season.

    Which one is better?

    Pitcher A: 4.51 ERA, 4.21 FIP, 4.17 xFIP
    Pitcher B: 6.20 ERA, 5.22 FIP, 5.76 xFIP

    Pitcher A, obviously, is Delgado this season in the majors. Pitcher B is Jurrjens. How is this even debatable?

  48. @81: One has almost twice as many sub-par innings.

    Pitcher C: 8.31 ERA, 53 ERA+

    Oh wait, that’s in a lot less innings. Not a fair comparison.

  49. Yes, exactly. Jurrjens was so much worse than Delgado in that small sample that he gave the Braves no choice but to send him down.

  50. Sorry, but I do. Somebody’s got to start holding GMs to the same standard as people who play in my fantasy baseball league…


  51. I know Minor has shut them down through the first 3 innings, but it seems like he implodes in the 4th and 5th a lot. Hopefully Fredi has learned and has the quick hook if he gets in trouble.

  52. Er, Janish. His name still sounds like a creature of the night. “We must seek shelter before dark, or the Janish will hunt us down!”

  53. If you believe Wren should have known JJ’s performance level was unsustainable and moved him, why do you believe others shouldn’t or couldn’t have known and thus not taken him?

  54. The LolMets are vomiting up another game against Washington. Their incompetence is now infuriating instead of amusing.

  55. There are many Braves players that seem to have above average intelligence. Dan Uggla is not one of them.

  56. Cabrera is really embracing this heel role. Crotch move last night. Fake ball flip tonight. What a dick.

  57. You dont put a short leash on a guy with no hits through 4 innings. He’s still under 60 pitches.

  58. Sandoval tried to bunt Posey over? Does Fredi have a spare Giants uniform and the ability to quick change?

  59. He’s got to learn and start pitching deep into games. Especially after the piss poor starts we’ve had from Hudson, Hanson, and Jurrjens to start this 2nd half.

  60. How many times has Minor gotten through 3 perfect before wetting the bed? I know this has happened before, because I told my dad last night that he would do this tonight.

  61. Rays want young pitching and catching. What about Delgado and Bethancourt for Shields?

  62. Thanks, Giants. That had doom written all over it. Good job, Mikey. Third time through the order coming up, Fredi. Please be ready.

  63. @98, Fair point.

    I don’t claim to know that Wren didn’t try and fail to move Jurrjens. It just doesn’t seem like, from the offers Wren refused when trying to unload Jurrjens in the subsequent offseason, that he ever valued him realistically. Until now, when it’s too late to get something for him.

  64. Shields is going to cost a LOT more than Delgado and Bethancourt. Not to mention the Rays are notorious for overvaluing their players.

  65. Thirty-nine pitches in the 5th and 6th innings. If Fredi sends Minor out for the 7th, send a straitjacket. Possibly for me.

  66. Now we can turn our attention to the fact that our offense has scored 1 run in 15 innings in this series. Thanks Fransisco

  67. Time to get Minor out of there. If Fredi sends him out for the 7th and Minor loses, it’s on Fredi.

  68. Six innings is plenty, Fredi. Thank Mikey for a job well done and give him the rest of the night off.

  69. Screw the ribs. I wouldn’t mind seeing Melky take one in the head.

  70. @161, funny.

    Joe is setting up Melky to get plunked tomorrow. Eff that guy. We’re due for a bench clearing brawl, amirite?

  71. I’m from Posey’s neck of the woods, but he should take one in the ribs next time he bats, not Melky. I want Melky’s teammates to hate him as much as I do.

  72. 166- You too, Dan; come to think of it, Hell’s going to be awfully crowded after this game is over.

  73. If I could witness Melky Cabrera popping a freaking ACL in this series, I might take getting swept. Seriously, under what misappropriation does he have the right to act like an ass to us?

  74. Maybe someone should inform him that we let him go because he was a useless, fat slob.

  75. I’ve got to make sure my life insurance is current if I’m going to keep watching the Braves. Nice escape, Meds.

  76. It wasn’t intentional, but my heart warmed to hear the crowd cheering as Melky fell back on his fat ass.

  77. Of course, poetic justice is no match for hacking at the first pitch.

  78. This game is reminding me of one of the 2010 NLDS games.

    Kimbrel to blow the game now?

  79. Might lose this game because of fat Melky and a lazy umpire. Or is it the other way around?

  80. Why is it that Chip always sounds so doom and gloom when the other team gets a hit? Drives me nuts!

  81. I know the guy isn’t much of a hitter, but I’m glad we picked up Janish. He has possibly saved us a few runs this game.

  82. So I’m generally sympathetic to Fredi’s refusal to use Ross as a PH, but he absolutely has to here, and he’s not gonna.

  83. Walk, error, wild pitch and we still cant score.

    They’re trying everything they can to hand this game on a silver platter to the Braves, and the Braves just won’t take it.

  84. Now that is weapons-grade stupid by the Giants. I’m sure Fredi has one of their uniforms.

  85. Forgot Pastor was still up. How about a walk to Bourn?

    Change that now to 2 walks, error, and wild pitch

  86. 261- It’s sort of true; the offense will drive us nuts first, before the pitching does.

  87. What the hell was that Chipper? You cant underhand a toss over a runner and beat him at the same time.

  88. Sell what? Our precious young pitching is terrible, so what else do you sell beyond McCann?

  89. Chipper’s error looked pretty effing bad. But he wasn’t going to throw that runner out. The ball was hit too close to the line. The leadoff triple was the ballgame.

  90. If you believe the cliche’ about being as strong as the weakest link, then this team is among the worst in the sport. Hard to imagine a more putrid bottom of the roster than Pastornicky, Hinske, Varvaro and Minor.

  91. Sweet…one inning of Varvaro wasn’t enough…Frediot wants him to piss the game away for good this time

  92. 309- True dat! Honestly, what’s it going to take to get a competent manager in the dugout? Mind you, the execution’s been pretty lacking too.

  93. To put Varvaro back out there when he really didn’t have it in his first inning is inexcusable, even by Fredi standards

  94. I don’t know ho to feel right now. Varvaro is off the mound, but now Durbin is on the mound.

  95. To put Varvaro back out there when he really didn’t have it in his first inning is inexcusable, even by Fredi standards

    This. It makes absolutely no sense.

  96. Welp, there goes all that goodwill Durbin had built up. It goes a lot faster than it comes.

  97. Nice work Durbin…apparently you should have been pitching to Joey Batts in the home run derby

  98. Some nights they play like they really want the other team to win. After going up, they almost immediately allow the other team back in it or even take the lead. This was one of those nights.

  99. Fredi is a cowardly piece of shit in addition to being utterly incompetent at his job.

  100. Durbin always wanted to be a closer, so he’s ending the game in the only way he knows how.

  101. Someone should remind this team that San Fransisco sucks. Back to back games where our pitching has given up a 6 run inning.

  102. This, in a nutshell, are my Atlanta Braves if the last 20 years. In the end, always juuust good enough to lose.

  103. Can blame Fredi for the use of certain players.

    Can blame Wren for foisting certain players upon Fredi.

    Can blame Liberty Media, above all, for budget constraints that force the roster to be filled out with cheap has-been or never-will-be band-aids.

  104. Not that I’m terribly interested, but when’s the last time a pitcher gave up 2 3-run HRs in an extra inning?

    Pretty rare, I’d imagine.

  105. I mostly blame Wren though for having so many minor league players on the major league roster…Varvaro, Durbin, The Pastor, Minor, Francisco, Hinske, Diaz…Almost 1/3 of the roster is worthless

  106. You have to love two former Braves hitting homers on the same night. You also have to love the two 3-run shots by two amazing power hitters in the same inning–one with 4 career homers coming in and the other with 6.

  107. @291

    Actually, we’re gonna be 2.5 games ahead of the Dodgers for a playoff spot after we lose this. Remember, two wild cards this year. Yeah, selling would be stupid.

  108. Wow .. how stupid can ya get .. bring Vararro back out for the 11th after how he looked in the 10th .. Fredi worst late game mgr in basball .. wait a min ..worst game mgr period in baseball .. how about Kimbrel in 11th and go getem in bottom of inning … boy we can be real bad sometimes.. Vararro too man hangers .. Durbin too many hangers .. we need some relief who can keep ball down

  109. Sorry .. didnt realized Kimbrel pitched the 9th .. oh well with our relief corp .. guess Fredi had no choice … maybe we need another reliever or 2 instaed of starter

  110. Per DOB — Chipper on Melky’s general jackassery:

    “That’s Melky. And that’s why he’s not here anymore… It won’t be forgotten.”

  111. Douchebag Krukow accused Kimbrel of having pine tar on his hat, and a bunch of moronic Giants fans threw a hissy fit on twitter calling him a cheater. Between that and Melky’s asshatery, I’m rather peeved we lost this one.

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