Atlanta Braves vs. Cincinnati Reds — Box Score — May 23, 2012 — ESPN
How is it that the Reds keep hitting pop-ups for homers in their joke of a park, but the Braves can’t put anything together, even against below-average pitchers like Mike Leake and Bronson Arroyo?
Positives: Dan Uggla hit a looong homer; Tommy Hanson looked really sharp except for one inning, and he even managed some very un-Hanson-like damage control in that one inning; Chipper Jones was well enough to pinch-hit; Eric O’Flaherty made a really nice pitch to get out of an eighth-inning jam; and the Braves have only one more game here in 2012.
Negatives: Todd Frazier hit a walk-off pop-up; Fredi let Hinske and Francisco face lefty stud Aroldis Chapman, with Matt Diaz sitting on the bench, in critical eighth-inning PAs; Jonny Venters looked ineffective and was hit pretty squarely in the leg with a line drive; and everything about “Great” “American” “Ballpark”.
Gah, what a crappy place to play crappy baseball.
From the previous thread:
“I appreciate the calibre of individuals on this site, the ONLY blog site of ANY type I go on. Is it the “when on the road, play for two, etc.,” logic,or why would Fredi not do as Baker did and go with Kimbrell as Dusty did with Chapman?”
Because there is a stupid code for the managers and we like losing with our best arms sitting in the pen. Id like to know why Durbin pitches in bigger spots than Medlen. However, this is on the offense not the managers pitching decisions. They are close to being equally as bad though.
Awesome recap Stu.
Medlen has pitched in two consecutive games. I believe Fredi would not use him today unless he absolutely had to (ie extra innings).
I do wonder why he didn’t just keep O’Flaherty in, but it’s tough to blame that loss on anything but the stupid ballpark, and all of our hitters being mind-screwed by it right now. The list of pitchers not likely to give up a 350-foot fly ball to right-center occasionally is not only very short, it’s empty.
And yes, in hindsight, Fredi punting the top of the ninth looks just as stupid as it did while it was happening.
Gah, let’s just get tomorrow’s game over with and out of town for another year.
I blame Stu’s recaps. You’re 0-2, college boy.
I’m in a solidarity funk with Mike Minor.
Just got back from watching the Mississippi Braves play the Pensacola Blue Wahoos (Reds), and this kid Simmons is for real. He hit a single, two doubles, and a two-run homer to win the game, but what really impressed me is a diving play he made toward the left side, throwing the runner out at first from his knees. Incredible arm!
That park the Blue Wahoos play in is really nice for a minor-league stadium. My in-laws have a condo not too far away, and I’m planning on catching some games there when we’re down later this summer.
@9 That kid is supposed to be a pitcher!
Yes, the park is something else. Not a bad seat in the house, and there’s always a breeze blowing in from the bay. Let me know when you’re in town, and I’ll buy you a beer.
Simmons just blew my mind!
@10 I grew up in Pensacola and know a lot of the folks responsible for building the stadium and bringing the team there. I worked for a summer for the team’s owner when he owned the previous, unaffiliated pro team there. He’s a class act and went all out to get the new stadium built and to make it worth going to.
Where do your in-laws live?
They live in south Louisiana, but they have a place in Perdido.
Nice area. I miss being anywhere near real beaches.
@15 After lifeguarding on PC Beach from age 15 to 20, having a boat on Lake Lanier has been a Blessing, but it “ain’t” the same!
Fredi on why he used Martinez (and not Kimbrel):
“Well, it’s a situation with the closer-on-the-road issue and stuff, and I just think it’s one of those things.”
I also blame Stu for the losses. Kidding of course, happy for you Vandy won tonight.
– 9 & 12, I think it’s at least worthy of a discussion at this point, how much longer do the Braves ride with Pastornicky if he continues his sub .300 OBP/sub .350 SLG combined with his below average glove? I know he’s a rookie, and I’m not ready to close the book on him yet or anything, but you have to wonder if Simmons has more nights like tonight, and Pastornicky continues to fall further below replacement level (below Jack Wilson if you use fWAR) that the temptation might be there for a change. Simmons glove and and empty .260-.280 might be worth a win over the course of the 2nd half, and we all know how handy one win can come in at the end of the season. Not saying it’s going to happen soon, but the more I see, the more I think Pastornicky just can’t handle SS defensively right now at the major league level on an everyday basis.
@18 This year belongs to Pastornicky. I doubt we will see Simmons this year. However, I fully expect Simmons to spend the second half at AAA, end the regular season as a September callup, and be our starting shortstop when next season starts.
@17 He followed the book. It’s as simple as that.
Free Andrelton!
Qh, just because I feel like it –
Francoeur delenda est!
When Dre Day arrives, the Braves FO should let Pastornicky know by giving him a Will Rap For Food sign. That, in my mind, would make up for Durbin.
As long as the team is hovering around first place, I doubt we’ll see much change in the everyday lineup. But if we fall to, say, fourth place and five games out, I have to believe a significant change would be made at the shortstop position.
@20 – I think you are correct. Fredi disappoints me. I remember an article about Joe Maddon telling about how when he showed up to his first spring in Tampa he had t-shirts printed that said “Tell me what you think, not what you’ve heard” (or something to that effect). Basically saying he wasn’t going to follow “the book” or just do things because that’s how they’ve been done. Sigh.
Simmons is fine playing at AA. He’s hitting like .300 now, but remember that Pastornicky hit like .315 last year. While the defense would certainly be an upgrade, I’d prefer if the Braves kept Simmons on a normal course. He’s got the potential to be the starter in Atlanta for multiple years going forward whereas Pastornicky is more of a stop-gap. I think there’s a case to be made for bringing up Simmons in August with an eye towards possibly having him on the playoff roster as a defensive sub, but unless Pastornicky just craters, I don’t think it’d be wise to bring him up now. Let him get his time in the minors.
Free Simmons!
@25. asking Fredi to be creative is probably more dangerous than hoping he would just follow the book…
I don’t believe that steady, incremental advancement is even half as important with hitters as it is with pitchers, because there’s no health aspect to it.
Maybe I’m just feeling charitable today, but something about that quote @17 tells me Fredi realizes what the right thing to do is. I imagine, of all managers, he just doesn’t have the capital to upend baseball tradition.
@29
I agree, but you can bring hitters up to quick.
True. But sometimes you can’t bring an elite fielder at an important defensive position up quick enough. The Braves seem to know this, though — witness Furcal and Andruw.
@32. And both killed our patience to death…
Time to fire Greg Walker! What’s happened with these hitters?
@33 – If Simmons is going to be anything close to Furcal and Andruw, then I am willing to be patienced to death. Those guys *were* pretty good.
@33
Simmons would probably do the same thing, as he may very well be as immature as Furcal and Andruw were. I have no idea. But that fan impatience is also a function of prospect hawks (here and elsewhere) comparing what they finally get to see with their own idealized notions, where every hot shortstop prospect is Ozzie Smith and every center fielder is Willie Mays.
@35. Andruw was supposed to be a once a lifetime talent. That’s why he is forever a disappointment in most people’s mind. I love Andruw.
I forgot if Furcal was supposed to be this good.
@37
In my lifetime, Andruw was a lifetime talent. The best CF in the game for 10 years, and maybe the best CF in the history of the game for 6 of those. I’d say that’s a once in a lifetime talent. As a CF, who else can say that? Mays, that’s it. He wasn’t in my lifetime. People that think Andruw was a disappointment in baseball don’t know baseball.
Johnny! I just realized that I never got back to you about Nashville! Very sorry — that day was a hectic one, and then I forgot.
Anyway…
If you’re into checking out the honkey-tonk scene, you can’t beat Robert’s, IMO (especially if Brazilbilly is playing). Honestly not sure what Sunday nights are like downtown — whether thinks are open late — but it’s worth looking into. You could also see what, if anything, is playing at the Ryman.
Food-wise, you should definitely look into the Pancake Pantry on Monday morning. You may have to wait in line for a bit, but it probably won’t be too bad on a Monday, and the weather should be good, anyway. For lunch or dinner, maybe check out Rotier’s for a good burger and milkshake. If you’re willing to venture farther away from campus, let me know what kind of food you like, and I can point you in the right direction.
If you’ve got time and like museums, you could check out the Frist Center. There are several nice parks around town, too.
@39 – I second the Robert’s suggestion – a cool place.
#39 – Thanks Stu! I look forward to our short stay in your fair city. Of course we’ll take in Vandy and take a look around campus.
So I finally get to watch baseball on Fox Sports Ohio and I’ll be damned. Maybe its me,y’all. Maybe I’m a jinx.
As I recall, when Furcal came up, the knock was that he was basically a singles hitter with so little power that pitchers would be able to knock the bat out of his hand. Obviously, that turned out not to be the case.
There are people that think Mickey Mantle was a disappointment. It’s all perspective I guess.
I feel like this conversation is somehow about Heyward, despite his name not being mentioned.
I prefer good-fielding shortstops, especially ones who can make good throws from the hole. Also I saw Willie Mays play in his prime. He was a better all-around player than just about anybody, but I don’t think he could touch Andruw’s defense on his best day.
To clarify, Willie could not touch Andruw’s defense on willie’s best day.
If you’re into checking out the honkey-tonk scene, you can’t beat Robert’s, IMO (especially if Brazilbilly is playing). Honestly not sure what Sunday nights are like downtown — whether thinks are open late — but it’s worth looking into. You could also see what, if anything, is playing at the Ryman.
That’s what tourists do. And you know why tourists do it? Because it’s frikkin’ awesome. I love Broadway, I love Robert’s, I love Brazilbilly, I love being anywhere near the Ryman, and I especially love being inside the Ryman. Take a tour of the Ryman while you’re there. If you’ve got good luck, there’ll be a show there you want to see.
I love Nashville.
But here’s the point. Even if Mays (or certainly Mantle) “could not touch” Andruw defensively, the question is, how much did the Giants/Yankees lose defensively by having Mays/Mantle in CF as opposed to the offense they gained. IMO, the difference in offense between them and Andruw would more than make up the difference in defense (and Mantle was not considered a great CF, certainly not in Mays’ class.)
I thought the conversation was about Andruw. Heyward is a different story because, no matter how good he may be in RF, he is going to be judged primarily on his hitting. Roberto Clemente was argubably a better RF than Aaron but so what? CF is a more important position defensively-like shortstop-so you can at least make the argument that Andruw’s defense added significant value. (And, I am not using Mantle and Mays as the standard upon which to judge Andruw Jones. That’s not fair; no one in their right minds would take Andruw Jones in his prime over Willie Mays or Mickey Mantle in their primes regardless of Andruw’s defense. IMO, offense is simply more important for an outfielder than defense, assuming some basic level of competence.)
I second the Pancake Pantry
@43
I think Heyard is fine. He is 22 years old
Mickey Mantle should have been the greatest Yankee of all time. What a waste.
Ah, the Nashville recommendations are taking me back.
Also, go ‘Dores. I love the momentum we have right now. I wonder if it will be enough for us to beat the Gators.
#50
Maybe The Babe just had “a better constitution.”
#51
Might wanna worry about your in-state rivals first.
I think we play the Gators tonight.
Ah, different sport…
Guys, I’ve been thinking about it, and I’ve come to the unassailable conclusion that everything about this team and everyone on it sucks. No amount of arguments to the contrary will convince me that we’re not terrible at baseball.
Our starting shortstop can’t hit, field, or throw, our starting catcher has “flu-like symptoms” for a week and can’t throw anyone out, our starting third baseman has no legs to stand on, our starting right fielder can’t hit either, our starting first baseman is basically the reincarnation of Kelly Johnson but with a worse haircut, and we have exactly four pitchers I trust: Kris Medlen, Brandon Beachy, Tim Hudson, and Craig Kimbrel, and based on his last start I’m not so sure about Beachy.
Minor and Pastornicky should be in the minors, Freeman should be at the bottom of the order, and Jonny Venters should be on the DL. We’re in second place to the Expos. But hey, other than that, everything is fine. Fine, you’ll say, but we’re seven games over .500. Well, SURE — didn’t your mother ever tell you that winning isn’t everything?
Lou Gehrig is the greatest Yankee of all time in my book.
@56,
And “Pride of the Yankees” is a lot better movie than “The Babe Ruth Story.” But, dammit, Gehrig was just awful in 1939. McCarthy was an idiot, he should have benched him much sooner than he did. Ok, he was sick, get him off the field. He was pretty selfish to collect a salary while he was dying. And why did he have to do that “luckiest man on the face of the earth” stuff? All he did was choke people up and delay the start of the game.
Ten Best Yankees
1.Babe
2.Lou
3.Mickey Mantle
4.Joe D
5.Rivera
6.Yogi
7.Whitey Ford
8.Jeter
9. Reggie
10.Red Ruffing
Darn. You guys are tough.
I’d rather have had Mays in his prime than Andruw in his. Mays was one of the top three or four players ever. Nevertheless, Andruw was a very good player.
Yeah, I never hear Cardinals fans complain that Ozzie did’t hit like A-Rod. And he didn’t hit 400 homers.
@60
I agree. Andruw was great, but he was no Mays with the bat. But frankly, who was?
A lot of Braves fans became spoiled brats durring the 90’s and didn’t ever appriciate what was going on.
#58
I think the Top 4 are pretty easy. You can quibble about Mariano & Yogi, but the Top 6 look right to me.
After that, I guess it kind of depends on what you consider “a Yankee.” (Eg.-Does Rickey Henderson count? Winfield?)
I’d put A-Rod ahead of Reggie, but I know hardcore Yankee fans who wouldn’t consider either guy because they spent so much time playing elsewhere. They’d prefer Mattingly.
In that conversation, I always like to bring up native Georgian Spud Chandler, a WW2-era pitcher (and former AL MVP) who holds MLB’s best winning percentage (.717) for over 100 decisions, but nobody remembers him.
We’ve got the MLB.TV free game of the day, for those who’re interested.
I think the Mays/Andruw debate has taken place because of my #38 post. By no means do I think Andruw’s career holds a candle to Mays’.
Bill Dickey would go on that list somewhere, too, probably.
And on that note, I always thought it was a little odd that the Yankees had Hall of Famers whose numbers they didn’t retire (Ruffing, Gomez, Hoyt, Combs, etc.) and non-HoFers (Martin, Mattingly, Guidry) whose numbers they did retire.
Guess they’d run out of numbers at some point.
Whether Yankees fans like it or not, A-Rod and Reggie Jackson are both Yankees.
They retired Ron Guidry’s number?
I’ll be damned, they did. I did not know that. Clearly they should retire David Cone and Mike Mussina’s numbers while they’re at it.
#66
Reggie played for the Yankees (5 whole years), but he was an Oakland Athletic.
Once they do that, they’ll have to retire Paul O’Neill’s number.
And Bernie and Posada. Where does it end?
Mussina? Never happen.
And batting clean-up for YOUR 2057 Yankees, number 136, Bob Chin-Chou! Chin-Chou!
Speaking of classic baseball movies.
One of my favorites (haven’t seen it in decades) was a b/w film where the studious-looking pitcher (think Maddux)invented a liquid that, when applied, caused the ball to avoid wood.
Anybody remember that one?
It Happens Every Spring, I believe.
You can watch the whole thing here! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aMBX1ZcIwM
#Braves lineup: Bourn CF, Prado LF, Heyward RF, Uggla 2B, Hinske 1B, Ross C, Pastornicky SS, Francisco 3B, Delgado P
Freeman out with vision issues again, Chipper’s bruise is more sore today, McCann is still sick.
So no Chipper, no BMac, no Freeman tonight. Wheeeeee! Last place is just a couple of weeks away if this crap keeps up.
Gotta win one & get outta this stupid place.
Heyward better start hitting again.
So our bench consists of Diaz and Wilson tonight? Oh dear.
My wife and I are headed to Atlanta for a wedding in a month. The wedding in in Roswell, but I’ve been told to stay in Dunwoody. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Good inning for Delgado. Now let’s score a few runs for a change.
Francisco is completely worthless right now.
So far, the plot seems familiar.
Regrettably, there are few nifty hotel experiences in Atlanta in general, and even fewer in Dunwoody, that I know of anyway. You’re probably best off just going to hotwire and taking the best deal. Which I do frequently in other cities, with great success, btw. I am in a killer 4 star in Old Town Alexandria this week for $100 while the other goobs from my office are in a Springhill Suites in Springfield for twice that.
Randall Delgado does not suck when he’s throwing strikes, and does suck when he isn’t.
Ball four to Mesoraco was totally strike three.
Delgado looks good, even with the walk.
Pitiful. Thank goodness for Prado.
It’s nice to see Prado’s average above .320, where it belongs.
Nice escape.
Maybe we’ll score back in Atlanta.
Ballgame.
Way to minimize the damage, Randall. Is it to much to ask for the Braves to score a couple of runs?
Homer Bailey is the reicarnation of Walter Johnson.
Show ’em how it’s done, Randall.
So, I dont think we will come out ahead with the Hoover/Fransisco deal.
Nice job by Delgado. He and Prado are the offense.
WAIT, REALLY? MICHAEL BOURN!!!!
“Babe” Bourn
Slugger Bourn!!!
And Bourn.
Why not Prado at 3rd and Diaz in left? Even with a right hander on the mound that is a way better lineup than any lineup with Francisco in it.
Way to go Bourn!
Michael Bourn = our slugger
Michael Bourn is turning from Lou Brock into Tim Raines.
GIVE THE MAN HIS MONEY
Our offense is Bourn again.
I’m discounting any homer achieved in that park from now on.
Good hit though, Michael.
I see you, Randall.
Good inning, Randall.
Let’s get some more, Braves.
Bourn would hit 30 homers a year if he played in this “baseball stadium” 81 times a season.
We really stink right now, don’t we?
Most teams do when they are missing 3 of their best hitters.
Delgado has been impressive.
Calm down, Randall. You’ve probably got all the runs you’ll get.
Please, Lord, not Durbin. Please let it be Medlen.
By my count, we’ve played 24 games with Chipper in the starting lineup and 21 without.
Ugh.
Dammit.
Should’ve brought in Durbin.
Damn it all.
Good night, friends. Tomorrow is another day.
Disgusting.
The young pitching on this team sucks ass…so glad we hung onto all of it
I hate you, world.
On the bright side, there is literally no way that Durbin being in the game would have changed the outcome there.
Hey, at least we played the JV lineup this series. Gotta tip our caps to them….
Woo, Prado.
This park sucks. I’m glad my team doesn’t play in a novelty park.
Juan! 5-3.
Juan, stop trying to give us hope.
We need to stop pitching to Drew Stubbs. I think Jonny Venters is injured.
Jonny’s definitely broken. NOw how do we get him to admit it?
Juan would actually be good playing in this stupid ballpark. Can we send him back to the Reds?
#130 Him or the team?
Probably him. My opinion of Fredi isn’t low enough for me to think he’s deliberately throwing a wounded pitcher to the wolves.
Livan is now one of our two or three most reliable relief pitchers. I find this remarkably depressing.
I don’t understand why Fredi didn’t go full on MO’Venterable. He stayed with Delgado too long tonight in my humble opinion.
Guess we should tip our caps again and not take any of the blame. Btw, jhey is under. 240 again
Solid finish
Hope can be harsh. Let’s get out of this shithole.
Thanks, Juan. Go away now. And take most of this malfunctioning offense with you.
I hate Juan Fransico. I kind of liked him at the start of the year, I don’t remember falling out of like with a braves player so fast.
What a waste of a nice start to a road trip.
Well, that sure sucked.
When your best hitters are your catcher and your 40 year-old icon, you’ll have a series or two like this.
@142 I have said the same for many years, and for some reason I was told many times that it’s not an issue.
@140 Juan is good at giving us hope and destroying hope at the same time.
Uninspired recap is up.