Atlanta Braves vs. New York Mets – Box Score – August 05, 2011 – ESPN.
Ah, the Mets.
They actually took the lead in the first, singling and doubling with two out, but Tim Hudson shut them down from there. He allowed only one other hit all night — and it was a goofy flare down the right-field foul line that Jason Bay at first didn’t even run on that bounced from fair territory into the stands — in the fourth inning when they loaded the bases for their only other threat of the night. Hudson walked two and struck out two, and his fly ball/ground ball split was about even, so I wouldn’t want to try to duplicate the effort — but, the Mets.
In the third, the Braves took the lead. Alex Gonzalez singled. Hudson — batting eighth — couldn’t get the bunt down, but Jose Constanza tripled into the gap to score AAG. Michael Bourn then hit an unusual play called a “sacrifice fly”, which even though it has “sacrifice” in it doesn’t even involve a bunt, to take the lead.
The Braves blew a couple of other chances, mostly around Freddie Freeman‘s two doubles. In the eighth, Constanza singled, then Bourn bunted (just what you want to do with two fast guys, give away outs) and Martin Prado legged out an infield grounder. Freeman this time didn’t double, but grounded to third. David Wright went home with it. Constanza then initiated a “run-down”, which is another unusual play where instead of just running into the catcher the baserunner runs back and forth on the bases in an attempt to allow the other runners to advance, and maybe even get to a bag safely if the other team screws up. Prado and Freeman advanced to third and second. Dan Uggla, needing a hit to extend his streak, singled to make it 4-1.
Jonny Venters allowed a walk and a hit with one out in the eighth but got out of it. The increasingly automatic Craig Kimbrel went popup, groundout, strikeout in the ninth.
Loss Mets.
Leaving the game amid much Mets misery.
The Richter Scale for groaning jumped a bit on the Uggla hit.
Nice one, boys.
Schaffer in CF and McLouth in LF was good but George, Bourn & Heyward excel.
Richter Scale for Groaning (RSG)….I like that.
Mac, belatedly, from our hammock to yours, I wish to say how great it is to have you back. Tonight’s recap is of the vintage quality of which I have been accustomed the last 3 years I’ve been lucky enough to be have found you guys. Stay healthy!
O’Ventbrel has now gone 41 2/3 IP without allowing a single run. It didn’t allow a run in the month of July.
Eric Karabell actually mentioned this streak the other day in his ESPN podcast with Keith Law (thanks for the rec…Pete, I think?). Law mumbled something about inherited runners and changed the subject.
@2 The outfield looks a lot better. Too bad the NL doesn’t have a DH spot for Chipper when he returns.
Good to have you back, Mac. BTW anyone know why Peter closed comments at CAC?
Freddie at .300
I am really enjoying watching Freddie this season. He’s been so much better than I expected.
Then again, Heyward has been much, much worse.
So, does Heyward sit again with Chipper back tomorrow?
Apparently.
Sigh.
Why sigh? Constanza has been phenomenal since he has played. i love Heyward too, but maybe Constanza is better right now
9 – Wait, you mean the nearly-.500 BABIP is unsustainable? Get out of here. That shit’s predictive, yo.
Only if you think George really is playing at his real talent level.. If you think he isn’t, then you know his numbers will drop and you don’t know that it won’t start tomorrow. Put simply who would you send up to bat first in a critical spot? And that guy is the guy who should play.
@12 I don’t want Jason at bat in a critical spot either. Constanza helps nullify the ginormous outfield in NY.
Everyone knows what is going to happen with Heyward at bat – a weak ground ball to short stop, second, or first. Has to be a 90% chance. The kid needs to make some adjustments.
Hah!!! Did you guys see this? From Ugga:
On Constanza’s rundown:
“George did a great job – we call Constanza Georgie by the way. He did a great job staying in the rundown long enough for Freddie and Prado to advance. It ended up working out.”
D-Backs lose. Up 3.5 in the WC. A good night.
The Pirates have lost nine of their last ten and are currently 8 games out of first. I would have had a hard time rooting against a team like that in the playoffs, but they seemed to have taken care of that.
#17–and they will always remember that they had a little help from Meals….
I question why it took so long for them to call up George.
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=310805121
Anyone notice the ESPN box score Mac linked at the top? Under “game notes” it says:
“BRAVES FIRST BASEMAN FREDDIE FREEMAN DOUBLED IN THE TOP OF THE FOURTH INNING TO EXTEND HIS HITTING STREAK TO 19 GAMES”
But says nothing of Uggla’s longer hitting streak.
If Chipper plays today, why not give Prado a day off and let Borne and TBone go one-two in front of Chipper?
“Constanza helps nullify the ginormous outfield in NY.”
Heyward is an above average right fielder.
No way they bring Parrish back next year, right?
He’s obviously not going to hit like this forever, but I don’t mind Fredi riding out Constanza’s hot streak.
Ok, so with Uggla and Freeman hitting the cover off of the ball, does Chipper finally move to a different spot in the lineup when he and McCann are both back?
Chipper will be hitting 3rd/4th. I wouldnt say thats where he belongs in this lineup now. Fredi isnt going to go there.
What about going:
Bourn
Uggla
Chipper
McCann
Freeman
Prado
Heyward
Gonzalez
Pitcher
Id rather leave Prado batting 2nd and Uggla after Freeman, personally. Fredi gets going with sac bunts too often. Prado is probably a better fit for hit and runs with Bourn on base also.
I would almost do this lineup
Bourn
Chipper
Uggla
McCann
Freeman
Prado
Heyward
Gonzo
Pitcher
The Braves’ everyday corner outfielders are hitting .275/.315/.411 and .221/.313/.393.
When was the last time they got anything substantial from left and right field? 2004 with Drew?
@30
I don’t know but if I were a betting man, I’d bet our OF production will get much better than that the rest of the way and in 2012.
Here’s to hoping that Victorino gets suspended for 10 games or so.
Tell the clubhouse attendant to sweep Chipper’s locker, stat!
http://tinyurl.com/3va2wbs
Dreamt last night that the Mets blew today’s game so egregiously that I had to start today’s recap by putting “The Mets” in extra extra large font and orange type.
Didn’t you also dream of a Braves-A’s World Series a few years ago?
@34 – Geez, it’s harvested from the velvet of baby deer antlers?! I guess it would explain Sam’s preference for cooked puppies if the performance enhancing effects of a substance were proportional to the adorability of the baby creature from which it’s extracted. Excuse me while I go find some kittens to mash into a paste.
@ 34. I use unicorn horns. They work,
Hmmmm, mashed kitten paste.
I had a bizarre dream a couple of nights ago that Dan Uggla revealed that he was a female.
I won the world series with a walk-off single the night before last. At least I would have if my girlfriend didn’t set her alarm for 90 minutes before she needed to wake up.
@41, Ah yes, the Luis Gonzalez dream…
Sean Gilmartin’s debut in the GCL was unimpressive: 2 innings, 2 runs (both earned).
For what it is worth our GCL team is terrible and they lost today by a football score 14-6….
The fact that Georgie’s BABIP isn’t sustainable over a full season is not an argument against starting him ahead of Heyward right now. Statistical analysis is essentially useless when it comes to single game strategies.
I ride Constanza while he’s hot, then use him as a pinch runner when he cools off.
I completely disagree with @44, but that’s irrelevant because it sounds like Fredi completely agrees with it. But could they at least send Heyward down to AAA if this is all they’re going to do with him? He’s sitting on the bench, not learning or improving, just accruing service time. This is akin to using an out-of-tune Stradivarius to hammer a nail.
Wonder how many games Constanza will have to suck now for the aura of his first few games to dissipate in Gonzalez’s mind.
I’m okay with the current situation. Sending Heyward to AAA would put him out of commission for 10 days. Playing T-Bone while he’s hot has nothing to do with believing he’s the better player — it’s a signal to your employees that good work gets rewarded. Everyone knows whose job RF is. And heaven forbid we should enjoy the story in the meantime.
JJ to the DL, Minor called up and will start tomorrow. Our team is falling apart…
Fortunately our AAA rotation is amazing.
Everything Sansho said. The complaining on here about something we should be happy about is ridiculous. You’d think Heyward had actually done a single thing that was worth a crap in the last month. We’re actually getting better production from that spot than we would likely be with Heyward in the lineup right now. When Constanza cools off, sure, you put the better long-term bet back in there, but pretending there’s no reason to put Constanza in the lineup right now is silly.
JJ to the DL with a knee strain, Minor recalled to start tomorrow
Bourn 8
Prado 7
Freeman 3
Uggla 4
Jones 5
Ross 2
Gonzalez 6
Constanza 9
Hanson 1
I guess it depends on whether you believe in things like “hot streaks” or not. If you do, then Constanza makes tons of sense over Heyward. If you don’t, then it makes no sense to choose someone other than the better longterm bet for any one game, barring legitimate practical concerns (e.g. Heyward has an ingrown toenail right now, etc.). The assumption is that both Constanza and Heyward should be expected to play at their true talent levels immediately and henceforth. You might be of the former camp, but I don’t see how the opinions of the latter camp are so much ridiculous as they are generally disagreeable.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like the Constanza we’ve seen so far, and major props to him for not completely falling on his face upon callup in the style of Brandon Hicks or Matt Young. I just see no reason at all to expect to continue seeing that Constanza for even one more day, and the one I expect to see today isn’t as good as the Heyward I expect to see today.
How could anyone not “believe in” hot streaks? I mean, anyone who has seen the last month or so of Dan Uggla’s results? Of course hot streaks exist. To deny that is absurd.
But to give benefit of doubt, maybe you’re not saying hot streaks don’t exist (which would be very silly) but rather than the existence of a hot streak is not predictive of future performance (i.e. that a player has been “hot” doesn’t mean he will stay “hot.”) That’s a more defensible position, but still wrong IMHO. Players see the ball well at times, lock in and crush pitches. Players lose all of their mechanics sometimes and couldn’t hit water if they fell out of a boat. On the average, a player will go through various hot and cold streaks in equal measure, such that his FINAL end of the year numbers will be within probability very close to his career aggregate yearly numbers. But noone – not Chipper Jones, not Dan Uggla, not Jason Heyward, and not Jose Constanza – just go out there and hit their aggregate seasonal numbers every day, or ever week, or even every month. The predictable numbers are AGGREGATES, not day to day production.
For day to day production, you do consider things like “who’s hot,” who’s seeing the ball well,” and “who’s struggling to even roll out weakly to 2B these days.”
Obviously Jason Heyward is the RF, now and into the future. But that doesn’t mean you start him when he’s scuffling, and sit a hotter hitter, any more than you would refuse to give Uggla a day off for a hotter hitter when he was doing so poorly earlier this year.
Heyward’s swing is a mess, I feel like we should just send him to Gwinnett and see if he can get it straightened out by the end of the month.
IMO Heyward’s still hurt. So I have no problem with him getting more time off to rest the shoulder. Besides, watching Constanza can be fun! Not as fun as watching Heyward hit line drives, but that hasn’t happened much recently.
I think Heyward has skated by with a pretty busted swing and now is finally at a level where it’s really been examined and the flaws have been made obvious, and he’s going to have to learn how to adjust. They guy didn’t play much in high school besides getting walked all the time (remember, that lead to him dropping so far that the Braves could take him in the draft) and flew through the minors. He’s still got a lot of growing to do, and his swing might need to be broken down and reworked.
@54
I don’t know if it’s purely mechanical or if he’s still hurt or if it’s some of both, but I don’t get the feeling he’s going to hit his way out of it.
@52 – Yeah, I agree that “hot streaks” exist in a retrospective sense. Uggla has obviously been “hot” for the last month or so and let’s all hope we can look back and say the same thing at the end of this month. I do tend to think that there are periods during which players have more things working at the same time than usual, and these show up as hot streaks. Pure, unadulterated luck can create a hot streak that looks a lot like a skill-based one too, though, and based on the skills that Constanza has shown through his whole career exclusive of the last 7 days or so, I’d bet on this streak being of the lucky variety.
It’s going to be awfully tough for Heyward to get into an Uggla-esque streak of his own, though, if he’s sitting on the bench. Uggla’s swing looked pretty messed up too until all of a sudden it didn’t.
Constanza, right now, is in Chucky Thomas mode. Chucky Thomas was pivotal in winning a division for us that year.
If he goes two games without getting a hit, sit him. But until he goes at least one game without doing something to help the club win, play him. Ride the streak, even if it’s “luck.” Flags don’t care if it was luck or skill. And if Constanza stays lucky longer than expected (or even more longer than expected, I suppose) then Heyward can heal and fix his swing in the off-season.
The point is not to get Jason Heyward at bats. The point is to win baseball games. Constanza is helping to win baseball games, and until he ceases to do that, he starts for me. I’d give him a short leash, certainly. No more than two games. But right now he’s contributing to ML wins, which is what your starting outfielders are tasked with doing.
To those who don’t know, Constanza has been hitting this way all year in AAA, dude hit nearly .400 for months then cooled off but still hit over .330
He’s not on a hot streak right now, he’s been like that all year (except for a small slump in AAA). Sure, he might hit a wall, but he deserved to be up here since the start of the year.
As for Heyward, sure we can keep expecting and hoping for him to bust out of his slump any day now, but how long have we been waiting for that to happen already?
Last week the Braves were on ESPN’s Sunday Night Baseball, and Bobby Valentine said of Heyward’s swing “It’s a classic T-swing. I can’t believe he hasn’t adjusted to the majors yet.” I hate to say Valentine is right, but Valentine is right.
Note that I also would’ve been up for replacing Uggla with Conrad a couple times a week in June. I’m not saying totally bench Heyward, and I wouldn’t have been in favor of totally benching Uggla, either, but you’ve got to balance giving them enough at-bats to work it out with trying your best to get people in the lineup who can help you win a game.
@58
Great point. I was thinking about Charles Thomas last night on the triple and on the OF plays.
Leave it to Chip Caray not to know to make that comparison. Very good one.
@60 – He adjusted to the majors just fine (more than just fine, more like “historically well”) for an entire season last year. Does no one remember that? This isn’t some rookie who had success in a completely different AAA environment and now that he’s facing major league pitching, he’s struggling. That is not the case here.
As long Heyward gets the same treatment Uggla got, then I’m completely ok with it. Uggla got regular rest – he did not get benched in favor of a streaking AAA wildcard.
But this is not the point in the proceedings for me to get apoplectic over Heyward’s plight. This is, after all, just the third time Fredi has implicitly stated that he thinks Jose Constanza is a better baseball player than Heyward right now. If he’s sitting this time next week…
As long Heyward gets the same treatment Uggla got, then I’m completely ok with it. Uggla got regular rest – he did not get benched in favor of a streaking AAA wildcard.
Heyward will get at bats. He will start games. Chipper will rest some games, and Heyward will play. Prado will rest, and Heyward will play. Constanza and Bourn will rest, and Heyward will play. Being sat in lieu of the hot hand doesn’t mean they’re going to take him out to the back pasture and shoot him. Good lord.
As for Uggla not getting benched more earlier, I guarantee you that had Diory Hernandez come up and ripped the ball all over the field like Constanza is currently doing, Uggla would have gotten a nice break to rest up and get his head and swing back together. Uggla didn’t sit because no one was “streaking,” not because he got better treatment than Heyward.
Pete, you really need to work on distinguishing “is playing better” than “is a better player.” Those two phrases are not the same thing.
Pete, out of curiosity, were you equally appalled when people wanted to sit Nate McLouth in 2009?
People may hurt all the time even if they need rest. Heyward will likely go in tonight and rest CJ,
Jurrjens on the DL with a knee sprain? Did anyone know about that sprain?
I didn’t know about it, but it was pretty obvious to any observer that he was playing through some kind of pain. I was worried it was his shoulder.
@66 – That just goes back to the distinctions outlined in @51 though.
@67 – Can’t remember (I’m assuming you’re referring to 2010), though I’d guess not for two reasons:
1.) McLouth was a big net-negative. He wasn’t hitting, and his defense was atrocious. He was worth -1.5 fWAR on the year. (Insert anti-defensive metrics argument here that I can’t really refute other than saying that UZR agreed in a big way with my eye test in that case). Heyward, as I’ve continued to point out, has been pretty good on defense and very close to league average with the bat.
2.) McLouth meant (and means) next to nothing to the team’s future. There was a small financial risk associated with his continuing to suck. There is something around $100 million in potential surplus value resting on Heyward’s future over the next 4.5 years.
“The fact that Georgie’s BABIP isn’t sustainable over a full season is not an argument against starting him ahead of Heyward right now.”
Actually, it is an argument against starting him ahead of Heyward. Also:
“Statistical analysis is essentially useless when it comes to single game strategies”
is why you should start Heyward. He’s a better player.
@72 – I would beg to differ at the moment. Heyward is the better athlete – and as such, has much more potential. However, if he doesn’t make the adjustments necessary, he is currently not the best player – his OBP is Franceour-esk right now.
BTW anyone know why Peter closed comments at CAC?
I’d been trying to figure that out myself. Personally, it seemed that the comments had started to contain more intelligent thoughts, but to each his own. I don’t know if I prefer that site with or without commentary. On the other hand, the authors are sometimes wrong (and rarely admit to it), and on the other… the commentary is almost always wrong, and the posters rarely admit to it.
Sam is right.
Jason Heyward is not a slot machine getting ready to pay off. He’s a human being who goes on hot and cold streaks like every other hitter.
These streaks, we know to be comprised of some amount of random chance. Bloopers that fall, liners that are caught, etc.
They are also composed by human beings, who watch video, tinker with swings, play hurt, and get well. They face pitchers who watch video, and figure out how to pitch them. And then they figure that out.
If you believe that Jason Heyward is some automaton just waiting for the universe to right itself, then tonight might be that night. I believe a manager should be able to tell when someone is swinging well, or swinging badly, in the short term.
What Sam has been saying is right. At this juncture George gives the team the best chance to win. Don’t worry about Heyward’s feelings, all indications are that he is a mature kid with a team first attitude.
This won’t be a Frenchy redux. George will be on a short leash.
I asked Peter what was the deal with taking away comments and he said that he was spending too much time moderating which deflated his enthusiasm for writing.
Now on to diagnosing Lowe’s previously undisclosed hangnail and we might get Teheran …
Ha, knowing Lowe, it’s probably a blister in some unapparent, disgusting location.
As long as it requires a trip to the DL …
I’d prefer it necessitated a long-term visit to the AL.
Actually another NL team–especially the Phils–would be best.
#69
Wren mentioned the JJ injury yesterday on NY-area radio. Link in yesterday’s game thread.
#4
Really astounding stuff, and this kinda closeout bullpen certainly fosters some optimistic post-season dreams.
Will this club find the same fortunes as the bullpen-rich ’90 Reds? Or the ’02 Braves?
Fave moment from last night: Venters, with 2 runners on & one out, hears some hopeful murmurs from the rally-smelling crowd. He then gets the next two hitters on 2 pitches. Loads of grumbling Mets fans immediately pop out of their seats & begin to fill the exit aisles. They don’t even stick around for Kimbrel.
A couple of Peter’s commenters were great. Most, however, were awful. But then that’s the norm, I suppose.
Weather delay? Crud. I have plans tonight, and I was hoping to get this game in.
Looks like it might be an early morning with mlb.tv tomorrow.
I think the people that comment on Braves Journal tend to be a cut above what I read on other sites. Thanks guys.
Anybody have any idea how long it’s supposed to rain, or when they might get started?
The ESPN traffic really lowered the quality of readership at CAC. BRAVESNATION4EVER will be missed, however. Mac should try to recruit him for bravesjournal.
@74
Check out the last comment on the last thread where comments were enabled.
Apparently something happened in the comment thread that he didn’t like. I dunno what good he thinks he’s doing by closing comments though. It’s just going to drive traffic away from the blog. If he doesn’t want to deal with “idiots”, then he either A) shouldn’t be operating a blog or B) at least shouldn’t be an official ESPN affiliate blog.
#87
Supposedly until around 9:30/10.
I live relatively close to Citi Field. It’s not raining that hard, just enough to need an umbrella, but it’s completely gray outside as far as one can see.
First pitch, apparently, has been scheduled for 8:10.
90 – I just read through it, and don’t know exactly what the problem is. His own poster was engaging with people. I guess, though, that anyone who disagrees with the site administrators’ opinions are stupid.
I enjoy reading CAC except that sometimes they come across as their opinion being gospel and anyone disagreeing is mentally handicapped.
Hanson’s having another Episode.
Hanson = not an All-Star
Hanson is at Francouerian levels of hate from me.
Can’t say I liked the pitch selection in that inning.
Yuck. Not playing like a playoff team.
@97 That seems rather drastic for a guy who has arguably been our best starter this season.
The Constanza hit parade continues.
I wonder what goes through Gonzalez’s head as he repeatedly swings through Ball 4s.
@100 Oh please. He’s not our best pitcher. Just because he was the golden child brought up in our own system doesn’t excuse his obvious issues.
But he’s our best pitcher, guys!
Is it just my own confirmation bias or do the Braves give up an inordinate number of runs in the early innings? This has seemed to be the case since Glavine always seemed to start slow and then get better. I read something on CAC that suggested starters should see something like a -.25 adjustment to their ERA the first time through the lineup, progressing to a +.25 adjustment their third time through (may not recall the numbers right). My (albeit terrible) memory feels like this would not be the case for the Braves’ starters. Anyone ever looked into this and have some data to talk to?
I don’t know what’s going on with Hanson right now but he’s getting crushed lately.
93, 94
Exactly. The guys (especially Kevin) are extremely smart people and have an advanced knowledge of the game. However, (except Kevin) seem to spend their time trying to prove how smart they really are. I think that they should just let their writing speak for itself.
More and more episodes from Hanson…ugh
Hanson has nothing. So that makes for Jurrjens, Hanson, and Lowe who have all been awful lately.
Tommy’s been total crap for the last month or so. I hope he works things out quickly, because he’s the BEST STARTER ON THE BRAVES. (seriously.)
#105
SNY just put up a graphic that Hanson has a 5.26 ERA in his first 2 innings & 2.16 afterward.
@111- Thanks!
I’m sure McDowell sees that. I’d love to know if he is changing Tommy’s pre-game prep in an attempt to address that. May not have much to do with tonight due to the rain delay though.
One of life’s small pleasures: Watching Jose Reyes hit a pop-up.
Nice recovery, Tommy. Let’s get some runs.
Great job getting out of that…
That was a helluva job getting of the jam. Mets’ guys also criticized Uggla’s positioning against Turner–and I can’t say I disagree.
Jonathon Niese looks like a robot.
Yay–Freddie!
Brain sprain by David Wright to extend Uggla’s hitting streak.
27 Games. Wright should have let that one go. And Chipper.
Gotta love the Mets.
One more thing: how in the world did Bonafacio win the NL POTM award for July?
Wow! What a way to extend a hitting streak.
Thanks, #5.
Gotta break this open here.
Or scratch out a tie…
Mets broadcast notes that this is only the 3rd time since 1947 that two teammates have had 20+ game hitting streaks simultaneously.
Edit: I hate innings like this… when they’re against us.
Luckiest inning of the year. Not going to complain about it.
Way to go, Ross. Two-out hits are golden.
#121
And, as they note, Al Oliver was part of the other 2 teammate streaks—1974 with Richie Zisk in Pittsburgh & 1980 with Mickey Rivers in Texas.
Well, if that’s the way it’s going to happen… I’m definitely happy with the runs.
Just to chime in in support of hanson – he really is a fantastic pitcher, disgusting, dripping, ruddy beard and all. Bit if a rough patch right now, but there’s no reason to think he won’t come through it.
I thought Lowe pitched the other day?
I just tuned in. Hanson is struggling and Bethany is complaining about it. All is good in the universe.
Mistakes down the middle will cost ya. Hanson needs to knuckle down and get through 5 or 6 without any big innings. Sometimes that’s all you got, but the great pitchers learn to push through it and give their team a shot.
I hope this game ends in time for the start of the next one.
Nice triple by Prado! Shame Bourn has been spending too much time listening to Snitker.
Bay’s HR came on a bad hanging breaking ball, but Hanson snapped off a couple good ones to the very next hitter. Yes, he needs to gut this one out.
Nice hustle, Prado.
Home Run Derby is getting really old, Hanson.
Hanson is garbage and has nothing in the tank tonight
Hanson is splitting the middle of the zone with his fastball.
@134 That about sums it up.
Joe must be on the last year of his broadcast contract or something. He’s been unusually harsh with Braves players lately.
I’m over Hanson. He hangs pitches. He has a delivery that can be — and has been — timed. He’s easy to steal upon. He hits like he never entered a cage for batting practice. If the Braves have to choose between Hanson and Jurrjens long-term, well … it seems like an easy call to me.
Hanson sucks out loud. The talk of him being the best player on the Braves is complete horseshit.
Hanson just put that pitch on a tee. Say good night, Tommy.
In all honesty, why did Hanson start the inning? and then keep pitching after the Thole HR?
@140 Because Fredi is a moron
Hanson looked like me pitching American Legion ball in High school, which means he looks rather awful
Clearly Hanson sucks. We should just cut the clown leading the starters in xFIP and second in FIP.
…
What?
Any Brave that isn’t great every night sucks!
Chipper Jones needs to retire.
So, 6-4-3 or 4-6-3?
Edit: AAG misread his lines and hit a double instead of a double play. About time!
LOL Mets. Some amazing defense in RF tonight.
Duda, duda
Honestly, the Lisp is a better hitter than Lugo.
As Ralph Kiner once said about Dave Kingman, Lucas Duda needs a map & a flashlight to play RF.
It’s pretty sad that I can hear “men on second and third, one out” and not get excited because I know the Braves aren’t any more likely to score in that situation than they are with no one on and two outs.
We’ve left two more guys at 3B with one out tonight. Unreal…
Tim Byrdak might be the best reliever name ever.
@143, I watch a lot of games and I can’t remember a great Hanson game this year. I’m sure it exists and maybe I’m short-sighted and/or stupid, but I can’t recall one.
Delgado threw a gem in his AAA debut. 6 IP, 3H, 9K, and no runs.
Man on, no outs, Chipper up. We’ll score at least one here.
Let’s go Bray-aves!
Dan Uggla, Baserunning Superstar
@155 Don;t be so sure
I’m pretty sure.
This offense is garbage. Any contact with people at 3B, any, and we would be leading.
If they score it will be an accident with Agony up in yet another big spot
Edit: Good call JoeyT…at least Fredi acknowledged the DP likelihood of Agony
AAG didn’t completely fail. Progress!
See. There’s a run. Holla.
Agony also sucks out loud.
Even the Mets announcers sound confused about Fredi’s playcalling. Two different mistakes (letting AAG hit and sending Chipper) canceled each other out.
And I think George’s offense is back to being about nothing.
I watched Limitless and tune in to see that Hanson continued sucking. At least we have crawled back in it.
@163 Respect
#153
In 18 of his 22 starts, Hanson’s given up 3 ER or less; in 12 of those starts, he’s given up 2 ER or less; in 9 of those starts he’s given up 1 ER or less.
In early July, he had back-to-back starts where he went 7 IP, gave up 1 ER & 4 H. In April, he had 2 starts where he went 7 IP, gave up 0 ER & 4 H, including one outing with 10 Ks.
Tonight was Hanson’s shortest outing since April 2.
Cheryl doing a hell of a job tonight..continuing a night of Braves pitchers with nothing in the tank
@168, I guess I’ve seen the uninspiring starts. My gut feeling about him is not good but, as I said, I am probably wrong and/or biased. I freely admit I’m not a huge fan of him.
There is an effective way to use Sherrill, and tonight isn’t it.
Wow, Cheryl finally got an out
Yes, Fredi, playing the infield in has worked SO WELL the past few weeks.
On the Mets’ broadcast, Hernandez is destroying Fredi for leaving Sherrill out there … but he’s also ripping him for not having Proctor “up and ready” to come in, so take his analysis with a whole shaker of salt.
Start Heyward everying game. I hate Fredi.
Fredi has been awful tonight. From letting Hanson pitch the 4th, to burning Lisp for Lugo (of all the guys on the bench), to the usual baserunning antics. Luckily I gave up after the Lugo appearance. Bliss…
Also, the Hanson hate is absurd. Folks better hope he turns it around, because the team has no chance without him.
Scott, could you try to suck less? I’m sure your teammates don’t enjoy chasing your mistakes in the rain.
At least Fredi’s clearly learned how to use Proctor appropriately.
At least Arizona has lost.
Edit: Dan. (When we’re down five in the 9th, that’s all you get.)
The Hanson hate is particularly absurd in light of the defensiveness about Heyward.
Hanson got bombed & that’s what lost this game. Fredi had little to do with it and BTW, I woulda pinch hit in that spot, too.
@181 I’ve never been defensive about Heyward.
@183, Then take away the “particularly.” It’s merely absurd.
I’m a little worried about both, but moreso about Heyward. It would take more than a prolonged slump for me to turn on either.
The Hanson hate isn’t too absurd. For every post touting how he’s the best pitcher in baseball by some advanced metric, we need something to counterbalance the fact that Tommy Hanson is going to get blown the f up every few starts, at what seems to be a higher rate than his peers among so-called “top pitchers”.
I don’t know which stat you’d use; maybe GameScore, or pitching WPA, but if you worked up some negative version of the “Quality Start” stat, there’s no way that Hanson would compare favorably with Jair or Tim Hudson, much less Roy Halladay.
What baffles me is how Jair is frequently thrown under the bus, while Tommy continually gets a free pass after his bad starts, and is even praised as being the best starter on the club. Let’s simply ignore the fact that Hudson has been the only consistent starter after the break.
Recapped. Fredi delenda est.
For everybody bitching about minor things Fredi did, this loss is 100 percent Tommy Hanson’s fault. Fredi’s seriously not supposed to let Hanson go out for the fourth freaking inning? Give me a break. After we got the 5-2 lead, it was Hanson’s job to figure out how to get that game to O’Ventbrel, and he failed in the most miserable manner imaginable. Not gonna get into whether or not he’s overrated. But he single-handedly blew this game, and people being a little bit upset with him tonight isn’t absurd.