Atlanta Braves vs. New York Mets – Box Score – July 11, 2010 – ESPN.
Two of three, two of three… Look, it really was a successful road trip, and the only thing that went wrong was the complete collapse of the Reds’ bullpen when there was a chance that the Phillies would get knocked out of the race. And when you have Derek Lowe going up against a red-hot Johan Santana, you don’t really expect to win. Even if Lowe supposedly knows how to.
He didn’t pitch badly, though in common with most of his recent starts he racked up a high pitch count and exited early (this time with one out in the sixth). This whole “innings eating” thing isn’t quite working. Maybe he’s on a diet. Anyway, he gave up a run in the third on a two-out triple and single, and that was all Santana and the Mets would need. They got a second run anyway on a sixth-inning homer by Ike Davis, and Saito, who right now just can’t finish batters off, allowed a run on two hits in the eighth for unnecessary insurance.
The Braves managed only five hits off of Santana, and nothing in two innings off the Mets’ bullpen. They had a couple of good chances to score early. Melky doubled leading off the third, but Lowe screwed up the bunt and Melky was out by about fifteen feet. They got two on with one out in the fourth, but Yune fouled out to right (if McCann had gotten to third on Matt Diaz‘ single, he might have scored the tying run) and after Melky was pitched around Lowe struck out. That was about it.
And hey, we did get to see Jeffy tumble head-first into the stands. That was fun.
lol, Jerome Jurenovich just made an ass of himself.
Not verbatim:
Jurenovich: “Escobar made a fantastic play on that double-play at short today. Is he the kind of a guy who can get some momentum at the plate going for him with a play like that?”
Bobby: “No. I don’t think so. I don’t know what a defensive play has to do with hitting.”
Haha.
10 baserunners in 5.1 innings for Lowe, against that lineup. Kinda sucks for me. I guess it doesn’t matter if we never score.
No complaints here with 4-2 against the Phillies and Mets. Nothing wrong with losing to Halladay and Santana.
It amazes me though that the Francoeur narrative never seems to change. Every announcing team treats him as if he is a good player. According to Brian Anderson on TBS Francoeur has been “thriving ” in New York. Really?
From the Yunel Escobar Sucks forum posted earlier, an interesting intro –
“Does he suck? Please tell us why. Please do not post inappropriate comments, this is a friendly forum”
I can feel the friendliness from here.
Lowe is a number four. If the Braves make the playoffs he should not be in the rotation but I bet he will be because “he is a big game pitcher.”
No way Lowe should be ahead of Medlen right now… but I bet he is.
Well, I guess the Reds are just trying to be fair. We had our share of fun against their bullpen.
Freaking Lowe forgot How To Win.
Since Kawakami finally won, Lowe is 0-3, even though in his last two games he’s allowed just two runs in each.
Thank god the international shin kicking festival has come to a close. That was some of the worst “football” evar.
Hey, they managed to score in less than two hours!
Ugly soccer. The Dutch felt that they had to play physically keep the Spaniards off balance. Almost worked.
All of y’all that get to hear Ernie jr and Smoltzie call games are lucky. Is Glavine any good at color commentary?
It was actually a great tournament and a great final for those who realize there is more to soccer than just goals.
Saying it was some of the worst “football” ever, is like saying a 1-0 world series game decided in the 13th inning was the worst baseball game ever because no one scored.
There is much more to soccer than goals is what I am trying to say.
#12, better than the Phillies and Reds managed yesterday.
Glavine would be better in the booth if he’d actually open his mouth.
Andruw hit his 400th HR today! Good for him!
Teheran’s a little wild, but he does have some nasty stuff.
so 7 of 9 against the division before the break. Only losses were to Ricky Nolasco, Roy Halladay, and Johan Santana. that’ll work
btw, Nate went 2-4 today with a HR. Maybe this break will do him some good
6 of 9
Glavine is wooden and lifeless in the booth, much as he was on the mound. He sort of has to be prompted to speak, which is why he’s always the “third man” in the booth.
Smoltz loves to hear himself talk. Unfortunately he seems to have decided that his “schtick” will be terrible, corny jokes and “team rosters with only players who have names that sound like body parts.”
This whole “innings eating” thing isn’t quite working. Maybe he’s on a diet.
Let’s be fair — he’s on pace to go 208 innings and is 2nd on the team in innings behind only Hudson.
21—I think Smoltz is great. It’s regional color commentary; not sure what you’re expecting.
14—No, it was very ugly. Not because of the lack of scoring, but because of all the fouls. Very choppy; not at all beautiful.
@23- I agree. I have enjoyed listening to Ernie Johnson and Smoltz so far.
I’ll go ahead and say it: Sam has had issues with Tim Tebow and John Smoltz. Why? Put their commonalities together and you got it.
::Fading into the crowd::
All I’ve said in this thread is that Glavine is wooden and useless (worse than Ron Gant) and that Smoltz is corny and never shuts up. I stand by those statements regardless of what off-topic slurring Rob attempts to push at me.
Let’s hear your “circumcision = pedophilia” rant again. Hold on, let me go get my popcorn.
I usually like what Glavine has to say, it’s just not in him to carry a booth. The role of 3rd man fits him well.
Stu’s right. The game was pretty much a brawl. The players were fouling each other all over the place, and after the refs handed out a bunch of early yellow cards, it looked like the refs got tentative, not wanting to send too many people off in the final match. But they were just slugging and spiking each other all over the place. It was not remotely beautiful.
I’m with c. shorter, I think Glavine is fine when he’s the extra guy. He does have some good insight, he is just stiff and doesn’t talk much.
Since returning from injury, Diaz is 9-24.
Sorry, Rob. Troll someone else. My distaste for Tebow is nothing special. The vast majority of the nation, excepting people who wear orange and blue on Saturdays, concur.
I’ve never said a word about John Smoltz that wasn’t dead on and true.
So, Rob, are you trying to suggest that Tim Tebow and John Smoltz share something in common other than being douche bags?
Let’s end this little conversation now.
You called it!
More great Francouer news…
How about new role of…out of league?
@36: He says he’s not going to sulk. I doubt that. That’s not the Jeffy we know.
we’ll just see how long Francoeur keeps this attitude
I think it would be better news if the Mets played him everyday and benched Pagan…
Personally, I liked Smoltz in the booth.
Its unfortunate that soccer’s premier event was distasteful from an asthetic point of view. But how many ugly Super Bowls or college bowl games have each of us endured?
If we get a healthy Heyward and a useful Nate back …. whoa the possibilities are endless.
What’s the over/under on days until Francoeur is openly complaining about not getting more playing time? 15? 20?
A healthy Heyward is a must. The lack of power from everyone is definitely a concern. I think the break could not have come at a better time for Glaus…I just wish McCann will rest some.
McCann will probably only play about 2 innings or so. He’s off tomorrow and Wednesday. Im glad Heyward and Wagner arent participating
I like Smoltz in the booth…although I wish he was a bit more of a homer.
Not liking Smoltz’s color commentary is like not liking mama’s bananna pudding.
Infante is already 64 PA’s short of qualifying for the batting title. I don’t think he is going to make that up.
The bad jokes and the lists are just crutches for a rookie broadcaster. Better that than a bunch of banal cliches to fill the air, which is what a lot of jocks in the booth depend on. Not that Smoltz doesn’t have a few of those, too, but I’ll take the genial presence and overall positive energy he brings to the table.
Glavine seems to be doing it as more of a lark.
Childress to the Suns for a second round pick?
http://tinyurl.com/233b555
Potential assets traded for nothing so as to pay Iso Joe.
Who goes down when Heyward & McLouth comes back? Hicks and ? Blanco or Conrad. Can Hinske or Glaus play 3B
I’ve enjoyed Smoltz and Glavine when I’ve heard them. They’re worlds better than the national crews, Chip, etc.
The finale wasn’t as good as the semi-finals or the 3rd place match. But overall, I thoroughly enjoyed the WC. The US had a good showing and played some exciting games. I don’t think I’m ready to start watching soccer over baseball or college FB or basketball, but I’d say I’m about as willing to watch a championship soccer match as an NBA championship game.
ETA: If Nate comes back, Blanco is no longer necessary and will be sent down. My take is that this means that Nate better be fixed before we call him up with the way Blanco has been playing.
Four games up at the break & Cliff Lee goes to the AL West. Not bad.
FWIW, today’s WC Final was a bit underwhelming, but I enjoyed the tourney more than I ever thought I would.
Once every 4 years… no problem.
I don’t know if this has been posted on here, but it made me laugh: (a debate between a sabermetrics guy and a non-sabermetrics guy)
I think the World Cup would be more meaningful if it was held once every twenty years.
I bet the Mets will send Frenchy to the Royals for a reliever.
Not liking Smoltz’s color commentary is like not liking mama’s bananna pudding.
Exactly. Not every day, but great once a week.
Picking on a benched Francoeur won’t be any fun. He has to be on the field doing new, mockable things.
Woke up this morning to a chilly 58F foggy morning in Cooperstown, NY. Hall of Fame opens in 1h 30m. I’ll go rub Knucksie’s head for continued good luck in the second half.
Cool, little town, huh?
I’m sure Frenchy will be in the paper doing new, mockable things.
I’m not a soccer guy (and I didn’t watch the game yesterday), but I have to say I found the World Cup much more exciting than I expected. It seems to me that you have the same issue you have in baseball; some low-scoring games are exciting because they are tense and well-played, with chances to score, and some are not.
There are some things about Smoltz that bother me, but I do enjoy him when he does the MLB games on Thursday nights. He does what I think all the ex-jocks should do-talk about what it’s like in the game, his experiences, what the pitcher is (or should be thinking). He told a story about his first time in the All-Star game that was funny. Most of the ex-jocks won’t do that.
If Francouer is benched, the heads of all the various play-by-play guys will explode. How can Jeff Francouer not be playing–he is a great player, he looks like a great player,he has a great arm, he has a great smile, he is good in the clubhouse.
I hate the All Star Break.
But I find Smoltz inoffensive in general, and often insightful about pitching. He can stay. I don’t mind the corny jokes and all-animal teams a bit. He’s interested in the game, doesn’t say too many ridiculous things, knows the players, and doesn’t step on his partner
I’ve enjoyed both Smoltz and Glavine, though Smoltz seems to be having more fun with it. The times I’ve heard them they’ve both had insightful (or at least interesting) things to say, as spike & Marc mentioned, about what’s going on and how the players are/should be thinking.
Gant… while I like him OK in the post game stuff, during the game I’m not terribly enamored with the job he does (though it might help to pair him with somebody else).
Worst HR Derby lineup ever.
I normally wouldnt watch the HR Derby with no Brave in it, but my dads’s best friends nephew, Vernon Wells (who is a super nice guy and sends me tickets every time the Jays come to St. Pete or Orlando in the spring) is in it. I’d ask you all to root for him, he’s a super guy.
@57–very cool–I’m probably taking my son later this summer
I dont watch the HR derby….Berman for 4 hrs just starts the week off bad
FBF, that’s good enough for me. I’m in.
Eh, I can handle the Derby. There isn’t anything else to do.
In case you were wondering (doubtful), my money is on Swisher.
I hope Vernon Wells wins–but I’m with csg; listening to Chris Berman do “back back back” all night is too much.
You folks are free to enjoy the Smoltz booth all you want. It’s not like he’s the worst broadcaster in the world. He’s better than Rick Sutcliffe, at least. And his little cutesy schtick has an audience, I’m sure. I’m just not part of that audience.
I like Ernie Jr. I miss Boog.
I don’t get cable, so the only time I see Smoltz is during the Peachtree TV broadcasts. The rest of the time I listen to the radio with Don and Jim Powell, who are pretty good. Maybe Smoltz would grate in larger doses. And I miss Boog too.
edit – It would be a riot if Smoltz were to do a game tanked, a la Sutcliff.
Of course I DO miss Boog too… and Smoltz’ schtick would probably get old if he was calling every game (I like him mainly for his non-schticky baseball knowledge stuff)… but, it’s not like he’s taking time away from anybody that’s a particularly “better” broadcaster.
Lowe lost 2 games on road to other teams aces. Trade melky and keep Blanco. Melky will not play much if McLouth can play.
When asked in this All-Star press conference why he chose Ryan Howard to be his DH (and bat 4th), Charlie Manuel responded by first noting his competence against left-handed pitchers. WTF?
Melky’s utility is his ability to hit LH pitching moderately better than he hits RH pitching. Since McLouth has problems with lefties, Melky would probably be more useful on the roster than Blanco, assuming McLouth is good.
I thought Melky was much better against righties than against lefties.
He’s not much better against anybody, but he has slightly more power when he’s batting lefty against right-handed pitchers. (I’d say that was also true of a younger Chipper Jones, but I don’t want to get struck by lightning.)
For his career, he’s OPSing .255/.325/.355 against lefties, and .275/.332/.395 against righties. In 2010, he’s OPSing .263/.337/.338 against lefties, and .258/.307/.353 against righties.
I think 47 points of OPS is definitely a big difference over ~2500 PAs. “Much better” is appropriate. Which isn’t to say that he’s particularly good against anybody.
esp when he’s making $3mil. Im afraid that if we dont move him, he may be back next year also
Blanco is a fine backup outfielder for league min
Billy Wagner was asked if he wanted to participate in the All-Star Game — in place of the injured Jason Heyward — but he declined, citing a bad ankle. I’m still counting him as our sixth All-Star.
Yeah, DOB reported it this past weekend. It’s a little worrisome to me, because I’d think Wags would really want to go in his final year, and that makes me think the injury is a real problem. But maybe I’m just paranoid.
Charlie Manuel just illustrates how unimportant the manager is, at least on the field. Bill Lee once said of a Red Sox manager after the Red Sox won the pennant that year that he had spent the year falling out of trees and landing on his feet. I think that’s pretty much the way it’s been with Manuel the last two years. It’s not basketball-the players win, not the manager.
Paranoid. He wants to retire to be with his family. I bet he wants to be in Crozet, VA for a few days…
I bet he wants to be in Crozet, VA for a few days…
I’ve been to Crozet. That can’t be the reason.
I try to look at Wags optimistically and assume it’s him being more concerned about not getting injured and thereby helping win a ring in his final year rather than risk it and going to one last AS game.
Paranoid. I don’t think the All-Star game is important to veteran players like Wagner.
85 — ha
The call of the alpacas…
Wagner made it sound like he already had vacation plans with his family. I’m sure he’s fine.
Henry Aaron will do an interview on NY’s WFAN momentarily. You can listen online at http://www.wfan.com.
@71 – “You folks are free to enjoy the Smoltz booth all you want. It’s not like he’s the worst broadcaster in the world. He’s better than Rick Sutcliffe, at least. And his little cutesy schtick has an audience, I’m sure. I’m just not part of that audience.”
I can smell the condescension from here.
Smoltz sure is sullying This Great Game of Ours by telling jokes while serious men hit a ball with a stick and scratch themselves.
Wagner is more interested in playing in October than in an exhibition.
I’d rather be rich than stupid.
I’d rather eat steak than be burned alive.
2010 Braves Non-Stars
http://TwitPWR.com/LVy/
This is extremely odd. According to this article in Retrosheet, Joe McCarthy, manager of the Yankees in the 1930s and 1940s attributed an error by first baseman Babe Dahlgren (who had replaced Lou Gehrig when he ended the streak) of in a key game in 1940 to Dahlgren having smoked marijuana. Doesn’t say whether it’s true or not. I thought players in those days were clean-cut, upstanding young men who would not drink, chase women, and, certainly not do drugs. 🙂
http://www.retrosheet.org/Research/RuaneT/rev1940_art.htm
That Creative Loafing article seems uncomfortably predicated on Pitcher Wins and Losses, bracketing Derek and Kenshin’s slumps entirely based on when their losses occurred. That said, I think the Braves have a few sources for optimism:
Yunel, McLouth, Melky, and Diaz have played far worse than their past performance would indicate they should play. Diaz has been red-hot the past two weeks since returning from injury; it wouldn’t be crazy to expect that at least one or two of McLouth, Melky and Yunel might also start hitting up to their usual standard.
More importantly, Jair Jurrjens is back and seemingly at full strength at the top of our rotation. Tim Hudson is likely destined to regress, but Tommy Hanson is likely to improve, and I’d argue they give us the strongest top 5 in the league, with the possible exception of the Padres and Giants — we don’t have quite the firepower of Lincecum or Latos, but Hanson at his best isn’t far off, and Derek Lowe and Kris Medlen are a far better #4/#5 than either of them possess.
So: we have reason to expect improved second-half performance from Melky, McLouth, Diaz, Escobar, Hanson, and Jurrjens, and we’re already in first place by 4 games.
Who has overachieved? Prado, of course. He’ll probably slump a bit, but I think he can maintain a .300 average and even an .800 OPS through the end of the year. Venters has probably been the biggest surprise, but if he can keep the velocity and command he’s shown, I think he can remain a really solid setup man.
Glaus and Heyward were very impressive in the first two months, but both have slumped to the point that I think their current level of production is completely sustainable to the end of the year. The same could be said for Saito and Moylan, who’ve looked shaky lately but who have very respectable overall numbers. McCann is more or less where he always is, and Chipper will probably stay at this level of production through the end of the year. Medlen has been very impressive, but I believe that he can keep it up. Wagner, of course, has been doing this his whole career.
In short, this team has played very well, but — barring catastrophic injury — I think that, if anything, we could play better in the second half.
@95, Did you hear Troy Glaus did not make the all star team? LOL. Ryan Howard made the all star team. Argument over.
#96
Maybe Babe Dahlgren was hanging out with those crazy jazz cats on 52nd Street?
Joe McCarthy surely wouldn’t have known it, but Dahlgren could’ve done a lot worse if he was hanging with those guys.
Also, according to Buster Olney — who’s ranking by the number of home games remaining and the number of games against teams who currently have a winning record — the Braves have only the 14th-hardest schedule the rest of the way, compared to the Phillies (10th-hardest) and Mets (13th-hardest).
@100, from the sidebar on your link “Buster is working on ‘The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty,’ a book about the Paul O’Neill-Tino Martinez Yankees dynasty of 1996-01.”
rant
Only a guy like Olney would write a title like that – there was some cat named Bernie something or other that outhit BOTH OF THOSE GUYS DURING EACH ONE OF THOSE YEARS. And other than 96 and 97, it was by a lot. And this is without taking defense into context. What a screaming dope. Williams was an all star or top 20 MVP vote all of those years, Pouty Paul and Tino just twice each.
/rant
I’m guessing he used those players because they both stopped playing for the Yanks after 2001. Bernie hung around a few more years, to 2006.
Tino played in New York from 1996 to 2001 & O’Neill retired after the ’01 WS.
If you mention those guys, you pretty much know what Yankee Era he’s talking about, with a neat, little endpoint.
I agree with you that Bernie’s contributions are often underrated today. But I doubt Olney wrote that sidebar, and I generally think he’s a fine, careful reporter, not given to the overhype of guys like Rosenthal and Gammons. The book is titled “The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty: The Game, the Team, and the Cost of Greatness.” No Bernie snub on the cover page.
*Or, what Ububba said.
So I am an iPhone owner now. Any tips from experienced users? Must have apps, etc.?
I guess – I just loathed Paul O’Neill though. Between his constant whining, awful defense and his very good but (like all things Yankee) overstated hitting prowess he was the face of the newfound Yankee sense of entitlement. And just the kind of guy you’d think would take more than his fair share of the credit too.
@104, Shazam, Weather Channel, Bump, Facebook, Urban Spoon, Trapster, eBay, Springpad, Flashlight
Huge fan of sportacular for following games on my wife’s iPhone. I still rock the block Nokia personally.
Deleted — MT
Sam, that’s too far.
I take it all back. Let’s trade for Corey Hart.
The thing about O’Neill was that his acquistion was a good, old-fashioned trade—for Roberto Kelly!
O’Neill was very good for a post-Stump-Merrill Yankee team in transition, despite his water-cooler-smashing antics.
You always hear from those younger championship-era Yankees—from Jeter to Bernie—who tell you that Wade Boggs & Paul O’Neill had as much to do with that success as anyone. They didn’t give away at-bats ever, and it became that group’s overriding characteristic.
Tino’s acquistion was more of one of those we-can’t-afford-him-anymore-so-let’s-trade-him-to-a-richer-team situations. Kind of like David Cone, Roger Clemens or Cecil Fielder. (Kind of like Fred McGriff, actually. Oh, for those days…)
My view of the local “entitlement program” had a lot to do with the Yanks relieving teams of their talented salary, then eventually buying just about every FA they ever wanted—from Giambi to Sabathia.
I know Cliff Lee’s probably going to end up in The Bronx next year, but I’d sure like to see him pitch against them twice in a best-of-5 series this fall.
If this makes someone overpay for Hart I sure as heck hope it’s not the Braves.
I hate the All-Star break.
Oh to be sure, the fact that O’Neill was so good (and he was a very good hitter after he joined the Yanks) that he couldn’t be dismissed as a crank a la Kevin Millar certainly added to my distaste. In fairness I couldn’t stand him when he was a Red, but he wasn’t nearly the same player there.
Boring.
Paul O’Neill was a hell of a player with a cannon of an arm. I’d take him right now over some of the clowns we have trotted out there the past few years.
I’ll take a healthy Heyward, thanks.
Just got in, started to watch the HR Derby….but heard Chris Berman and changed the channel. Couldn’t take it.
[le sigh]
Maybe we should overpay for Hanley Ramirez.
I don’t even know why I watch the Home Run Derby anymore. Every year I sit there on the couch bored out of my mind, yet watch the whole three hours. I think I have a problem or something. That’s three hours I can never get back.
You know, the only parts of the whole All-Star Game Experience I enjoy are (a) arguing about who the All-Stars should be and (b) the player introductions before the game.
Didn’t see it mentioned but Dave Cameron over a Fangraphs has Slugging Martin Prado ranked as the player with the 47th ranked trade value in the game. Interesting. He’s only done 46-50, so I’m curious to see where Heyward and Pimpbot 16 rank on this list.
This softball pitcher Jennie Finch is as hot as fire.
I’ve been crushing big time on Jennie Finch for years now. Unbelievable.
I like the Future’s game. Also complaining about the future’s game rosters and the player introductions before the future’s game.
I think the Futures Game is like crack to hardcore baseball fans. I watched Teheran and Minor’s innings twice each yesterday. I have problems.
@104, I’m going to have to highlight spike’s Shazam mention. The entire history of computer science is the story of attempts to make steps towards that application. I don’t know if they use Fourier transforms, wavelets, or tiny microbiotic sacrifices to Apollo, but the results are pretty incredible.
Examples:
I’m in the dining room. Next door, in the living room, my wife is watching some teen drama on ABC Family. I think I faintly hear something that reminds me of Morrissey’s voice. I hold up Shazam, and it picks out a Smiths song. I check it out, and it’s right. Amazing.
I’m in the car with the windows open, driving through Bumblef**k, Kentucky. There are no FM stations I can hear, I don’t have XM, and my wife is playing some penguin game on the phone, so I’m scanning the AM stations. I hear a grainy song that I can tell is awesome, but I have no idea what it is, and it has no lyrics I can look up. I tell my wife to reach a stopping point, and she, at my request, uses Shazam to discover Wildcat by Ratatat. I realize my driver’s side window is still open. Amazing.
I’m at a minor league baseball game, and Chris Nowak comes to bat. A catchy riff plays to introduce him each time he comes up, and this time I have Shazam ready, so I hold my phone up in the middle of the chatty crowd to find out that I’ve been bobbing my head to Kids by MGMT. Amazing.
I’m not a “music guy” who can stomach Pitchfork every day, so Shazam has dramatically improved my quality of life.
George Steinbrenner dead?
Another dead Yankee. This time Death got the Boss
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5375561
Lots of arm bands for the Yanks in the second half.
RIP
Wow, I don’t know what to say about Steinbrenner, that’s terrible.
#128, it’s probably also worth pointing out that The Shazam is a fun power-pop band from Tennessee that’s worth having on your iPod.
Steinbrenner was a remarkable man. Perhaps one of the most famously unpleasant men alive at one point, he perfected the persona of the man who had his money and knew exactly what he wanted to do with it. And unlike the rich meddlers whose influence has actually hurt their teams, from Donald Sterling to Peter Angelos to Dan Snyder, Steinbrenner’s Yankees won, and then they won some more.
He could burn out people who worked for him — much like Billy Martin, he worked his people until they had given everything they had to give — and he was an explosive personality, whose habit for bluster and outrage created a persistent firestorm of controversy surrounding the franchise, undermining the professionalism he demanded from his employees, whom he would not even permit to wear a beard.
He built the Yankees from the winningest team in pre-reserve clause baseball history to the winningest team in post-reserve clause baseball history, which is an achievement in itself. He helped create the world we live in, of mammoth salaries and massive free agent paydays. No one benefited from that world more than the Yankees, but few could have spent their money more effectively than George Steinbrenner. He poured hundreds of millions of dollars into the club and received billions of dollars of value. If the Mets, Dodgers, or Cubs, modern paragons of wealthy ineptitude, were owned by a Steinbrenner for the last 20 years, they would have been more successful.
You can’t write about Steinbrenner without mentioning his personality. He truly was in a place where he didn’t have to care what other people thought about him. In no uncertain terms, he knew what he wanted — winning — and he got it. He frequently wasn’t a nice man. But he was an overwhelmingly successful man. And his example is worth studying. He lived the life he wanted to live. And he left his team as the defending World Champs. We should all be so lucky.
And unlike the rich meddlers whose influence has actually hurt their teams, from Donald Sterling to Peter Angelos to Dan Snyder, Steinbrenner’s Yankees won, and then they won some more.
I won’t say that George didn’t have a huge impact on the game, but George’s meddling hurt the Yankees on any number of occasions, and was directly related to the worst period of their history. Georges stewardship produced the longest gap (18 years) in titles in Yankee history, and 12 straight years without a playoff appearance. In fact, the Yankees return to prominence is often associated with Stein’s suspension and (publicly anyway) promise to lay off when he returned. Stein gets credit from me for many things, but the past speaks for itself.
He certainly overmeddled, but he was a lot savvier than the other overmeddlers I mentioned, and the Yankees weren’t exactly wretched between their 1978 and 1996 championships. (By the way, as far as 18-year layoffs are concerned, there are 20 franchises in baseball whose current championshipless streaks are at least 18 years and counting.) The Yankees had a .531 winning percentage from 1979 to 1995, and at least 87 wins in five straight years from 1983-1988 — they narrowly missed the playoffs in 1985 when they had 97 wins and finished two games back of a 99-win Bobby Cox Blue Jays team.
So I wouldn’t say that he turned the team into a mess. Yes, he made his share of bad decisions, and it might have been better if he just opened his wallet and closed his mouth, but that was never his way. His way worked pretty well, all the same.
EDIT: All the same, you’re right, spike. The Gene Michael era in the late ’90s was the period of their best success, and it happened when he wasn’t able to nix the moves that made it all possible. Thank you for pointing that out.
I dang well better be in The Boss’ will.
Well, The Boss beat the estate tax, too.
Do you reckon somebody might have supplied some rat poison? Half a billion reasons?
Yankees weren’t exactly wretched between their 1978 and 1996 championships
We’ll have to just disagree there. By Yankee standards they sure were terrible, and in large part due to Stein.
By the way, as far as 18-year layoffs are concerned, there are 20 franchises in baseball whose current championshipless streaks are at least 18 years and counting.
Sure, and the number of those teams that have the massive built in advantages of the Yankees is exactly zero.
His way worked pretty well, all the same.
I don’t think you can conflate the winning with Steinbrenner’s “way” of being…well I won’t even say it today. Suffice it to say that correlation of Stein and the 96-01 Yanks doesn’t fully equal causation for me. The fact that he spent a ton on FA’s after 94 and was kicked out of baseball long enough for their farm to contribute the core without trading them off doesn’t seem like it’s a proprietary Steinbrennerian “way”, but YMMV.
If Steinbrenner overmeddled…I wish Liberty Media would overmeddle just as much.
I kid. Kind of.
The Yankee Way: Nothing succeeds like success and, in this town, the ends justify the means. The rest can suck it.
Funny-weird, I just started reading Bill Madden’s “Steinbrenner: The Last Lion of Baseball” book yesterday.
After reading the introduction (which detailed a generic round of his pettiness) & then the first chapter (which detailed his duplicity in essentially lying to CBS chief William Paley), I thought: “Wow, this is pretty unsparing stuff.”
Key quote in the first chapter: “The man’s word is worthless.”
Gonna be an interesting media day in NYC.
There’s no denying Steinbrenner’s historical importance, but forgive me if I’m a little cynical in the face of all the lauding obituaries we’re going to be hearing over the next few days. Yes, his keen business moves, particularly his creating a huge media giant with the YES network, turned the Yankees into a billion dollar industry, but the Yanks’ success on the field has to do more with the economic inequities in the game, and the inability of Selig and others to do anything about them, than it has to do with anything Steinbrenner did on the baseball side of things. Yes, we’ve seen teams like the Mets, Cubs, and Dodgers throw money at their problems with mixed success, but the amount of money the Yankees have dwarfs those teams. While a bad contract to Darren Driefort, Alfonso Soriano, or Mo Vaughn can handcuff those teams for years, Steinbrenner could survive similar mistakes by simply buying more players. Of course you could say it was his business acumen that put him in this position, but I can’t help but think that with better leadership from the commissioner’s office we’d see a couple fewer Championships for the Yankees during Steinbrenner’s reign.
And commissioner’s office leadership that goes back to the days of Bowie Kuhn.
#141 – Right on. Selig sucks ballz.
Could anyone here honestly see Selig banning Stein for life over anything short of murder?
Vincent banned Steinbrenner for life; Bud later relented.
Better career CF: Andruw or Jim Edmonds?
For the haters, consider Steinbrenner the author of two of the greatest chokes in American sports history, the 2003 World Series and 2004 ALCS.
Edmonds has a peak that exceeds Andruw’s career high OPS+ for 6 straight seasons. Nobody’s defense is that good. It’s not like Edmonds was a slouch with the glove either. Not as durable as Andruw, but in an equivalent number of games so far, is way ahead offensively in rate stats and WAR. I used to have this argument regularly, and pulled for Jones many times years ago. As of today though, it’s Jimmy all the way.
Yeah. If Jones was still playing CF every day at a level approximating his early career, it’d be him, but I think the nod has to go to Edmonds.
Edmonds may wind up being tremendously underrated, because of the era during which he peaked. Bill James took a look at this in the context of a question Mac asked about Dale Murphy’s candidacy. James looked at Richie Ashburn, Duke Snider, Larry Doby, Earle Combes, Dale Murphy, Ellis Burks, and Jim Edmonds, and concludes: “Among the non-Hall of Famers, the only one who appears to have a Hall of Fame case is Jim Edmonds.”
#147
In the 2003 WS, the Yanks were up 2 games to 1 & lost the last 3. Not that big a deal. Are you thinking of the 1981 NYY/LA WS?
That one (like our 1996 calamity) was worse. Up 2-0, the Yanks dropped 4 straight.
But as a Braves fan, I can’t give anyone a hard time for “just making the post-season” or losing World Series, certainly not a team that’s won way more WS than they’ve lost. (BTW, Steinbrenner’s clubs were 7-3 in the WS.)
The Yankees won before Steinbrenner, during Steinbrenner, and after Steinbrenner. All I can truly give him credit for is the ambition and will to see himself to the steering wheel for a while. It’s hard to eff up the Yankees for too long.
It was 7-4, actually. Forgot about the ’76 sweep by the Big Red Machine.
AAR – Nice on the Shazam shoutout. I wore out my Super Tuesday CD one summer not too long ago.
Id take 7-4
#146 – Jim Edmonds.
I’ll probably be bothered by all the ‘George Stienbrenner was a great man’ stuff that will be written. Anyone that treated people the way he did isn’t great in my book.
2 days and about 5 hrs till real baseball
#151: I’m thinking more about $-for-$ against that Marlins team.
George Steinbrenner was a character, a very rich character and I’ll just leave it at that. He was perfect for NY and good for baseball. RIP.
I was bored and played around on Baseball-Reference. New post.