Just say no to Dan Uggla Posted by Mac Thomason | Dec 29, 2009 | Open Threads | 339 | Dan Uggla 2009 Batting Splits – Baseball-Reference.com Open thread. Share: Rate:
From prev. thread:
I could certainly argue that Georgiaâ€™s loss by 26 to Tennessee is nearly as bad as any of Navyâ€™s losses. Actually two of Navyâ€™s losses were by only 4 at Ohio State and by 13 at Pittsburgh then they lost a couple of tight games as you mention to Temple and Hawaii. Ga had one nice win over GT in a rivalry game and got blown out of every other big game they had this year not to mention the loss to Kentucky. Even if I concede that GA is better itâ€™s not by much. Of course, I base this on this year alone, obviously Georgiaâ€™s program is more prestigious and a more attrractive bowl opponent.
spike – I agree. DeRosa was blocked by better players at the time. Giles and Furcal. And like KJ was set to make more money than a bench player, in his case a player coming off injury was worth.
No Dan Uggla – please.
Ill take Uggla if the price is right, meaning a mediocre pitching prospect and Brandon Jones/Melky Cabrera
his splits at the ted are nice
For what it’s worth, Uggla’s crappy numbers versus lefties, or on the road, are not too dissimilar from Melky Cabrera’s numbers versus everyone. But that’s more a statement of Melky’s suckitude than an endorsement of Uggla. I’d rather have neither.
Belated, but heartfelt…
How ‘Bout Them Dawgs!
Also, looking for a Land Shark Stadium t-shirt before the name expires.
Hasn’t every lefty in the past 5 years made the Braves look like Myrtle Beach? Uggla would not help this cause.
I say no to Uggla due to his below average numbers against lefties.
Seems like Uggla hits well on the road in the division, excepting Citifield. (Of course, it seems Citifield sucks the life out of a lot of hitters). I think Uggla would be OK if the price wasn’t too high.
I say NO to Uggla because he’s a horrible fielder.
Look, I have nothing against Navy—hell, I used to work for the Navy–but really…
How many games does this Navy team win in the SEC this year? One? Two?
They had a nice season, but c’mon…
Well Georgia only won 4 and they were over Auburn, SC, Vandy and Arkansas and Navy could probably win 3-5 in the SEC depending on the schedule.
I’m not against Uggla coming, but we better not give up too much for him. I still don’t understand why giving up a player or two for Uggla is preferable to possibly spending 1 or 2 mil more for DeRosa and not giving up anyone. DeRosa is the more versatile player and I think he would fit in nicely. Only thing I can figure is the Braves only want to have Uggla (or whoever) for one year – not two.
That was really my point.
I absolutely respect Navy, and their ability to compete at a legit D1 level under unique circumstances is to be commended.
That being said, I’d much rather play Georgia than Navy, and getting passed by an inferior team for that opportunity pisses me off.
td – DeRosa just got 12 mil for 2 years from San Fran.
Uggla is arb eligible right? How much is he worth? JC? Anyway I don’t see getting another 2b or putting another player out of position if we don’t have to. I’d rather try for Nady myself. At least he has played the outfield.
Uggla, Cabrera, whatever, none of them make us better than last year so who cares.
There is a guy named Cabrera who’d make us better, but he ain’t the guy we got.
There’s very little chance Navy wins more than 2 games in the SEC, even if they play an 8-game sked with Vandy & Mississippi State.
If they played UGA, they’d be an 8- to 10-point underdog for a reason—they have inferior athletes, especially on the defensive side of the ball. No modern service academy team could deal with the line of scrimmage on a weekly basis in conference play. It would get ugly quickly.
All things are not equal and neither are football conferences. Just ask the NFL scouts.
Ill take any hitter who can make this team better, whether its Nady/Dye/Damon, just give them a one yr deal with plenty of incentives and hope they earn all of them. Uggla will also help improve our offense, but if we move Prado to LF to make room for him our defense could be awfully shaky. Chipper/Glaus/Diaz/Prado at the corners with Uggla at 2nd
According to WFAN’s Mike Francesa, the Mets will announce the signing of Jason Bay next week. Didn’t hear any terms.
4/65 best I can tell from recent searches
I don’t think he helps them as much in that park as he would other folks.. I say he takes a major power dip.
I guess Bay blinks first. Didn’t get the 100 million dollar contract so he settles for the Mets. Furcal Rule firmly in place.
The market must suck if you gotta take an offer from the Mets.
how unlikely is it that Matt Diaz could post a line similar to Bay next year. Matt could realistically post a .310/.380/.490 with around 15 sb’s for $2.5 mil and the Mets are about to get Bay for 5/65 but will put up a line similar to .260/.370/.500 and 15 sb’s
plus the Mets will lose 2 picks
No way Diaz posts that playing every day.
Matty’s power numbers will more than likely be lower, but it is possible
This defines what makes them ” the muts “
I knew DeRosa signed with the Giants, but my point is we didn’t go after him – I would guess because we only wanted to give him one year. It looks like anyone we sign will be to a one year contract. This points to high risk/ decent upside projects like Glaus and Nady. Banking on Glaus to come back is one thing, but hoping this will happen with 2 or 3 key components of the team is scary.
#23 – mac, why not?
after the allstar break he posted a .321/.402/.509/.909 line in 215 AB’s. With that many AB’s Id assume that he was pretty much in the lineup every game almost
1. He’s going to be 32 years old.
2. His career OBP is only 48 points higher than his batting average.
3. His career line against lefthanders is .276/.334/.387.
yeah I guess he’ll be facing a lot more RH’s now, what are realistic expectations for Diaz?
FanGraphs for 2010
Diaz – .307/.369/.441 12HR 12SB – worth 9.8 mil
Bay – .274/.372/.505 31HR 9SB – worth 13.8 mil
Count me as pro-Uggla. 30 homeruns from second base would be great.
Other than the BCS championship game, what bowl games are you going to watch?
Don’t like Braves roster … just wait
If you think trading the staff ace for a fourth outfielder was the worst move Wren could make in a single offseason … just wait.
I’ll do my best to watch all the SEC-related bowls, plus whatever happens to be on TV if I’m home.
I’m sorry, but I cannot wait to see Bay try to play defense in Citi…
Love Fangraphs and that community, but Bay isn’t going to hit 30+ at Citi.
Georgia is way better than Navy. I can’t believe anyone thinks otherwise.
@178 from the last thread â€“ “I would probably give it to the team that lost in the final seconds by a few points, rather than a team that was beat by 10 and clearly behind most of the game.”
That’s not what happened. Oklahoma led basically the entire game against Texas until the seven and a half minute mark in the 4th.
Texas Tech completely dominated Texas for three quarters until Texas came back in the 4th. Then, of course, the Crabtree play happened, but even if it hadn’t, Tech would have had a field goal attempt to win the game. Either way, Tech outplayed UT in every facet of the game that day, outgained it by over 200 yards, outrushed it, and outscored it. Alternatively, UT outgained OU by 3 yards. In terms of the structure of those two games, Tech was much more dominant against UT than UT was against OU.
Yeah, but they’re Texas Tech, so they don’t count. At least, that’s what I gathered from the media.
I think the only one I don’t really want to watch is the Rose Bowl. I’ll watch the Orange Bowl because I go to Tech. The Fiesta Bowl, although a major cop-out by the BCS, should still be somewhat fun to watch. And of course I’ll be watching the Sugar Bowl hoping for a Cincy upset.
Texas Tech only counts in false imprisonment of children of College Football Hall of Fame players turned broadcasters.
DeRosa could have helped this team as structured now. I am not sure how much Nady would help. That would depend on health. Uggla is not what we need.
Mac @27 #3,
You flip / flopped Diaz’ stats. That is career against righthanders. But note that Diaz significantly upped his walk rate against righthanders this year (2009). If he can duplicate it, he is a good leadoff hitter against righties (OBP 360 to 380) and a good 3, 4, 5 hitter (OPS over 900) against lefties.
Latest report I saw on Bay was Mets at 5 years and 80 million. So they competed against themselves on length and on per year salary. I guess the uglier the bride, the higher the dowry.
#33 – as for Bay hitting 30+ there, Id be very surprised. I think he may be lucky to hit 25
Yeah, I meant righthanders. I have no confidence that he’s really improved against them.
Seeing what they signed for, I wish we’d signed DeRosa and Cameron (along with Glaus) and just taken a third prospect instead of Melky in the Vazquez trade. That would fit the budget and really give us a lot of versatility.
We’re going to wish we’d signed DeRosa and kept Vasquez (or traded him for more value than – shudder – Melky).
More of Wren’s sound and fury signifying nothing.
@42 – I still don’t get why you guys don’t see that the trade wasn’t really for Melky. Melky was filler. We traded for that pitching prospect. I’m still thinking we trade Melky before the year begins.
I’m with Stu on wishing we’d just taken a 3rd prospect instead of him. But the fact remains, Melky wasn’t the main component of the trade.
What do you think Luke Scott would cost in trade?
He IS what Xavier Nady MIGHT be. His 162 game average equals Nady’s best season. And he only made $2.4 million last year.
He’s just too lefthanded. And the O’s have no use for the Melk Man.
@43, it’s so boring to rehash at this point, but anyway…it was a salary dump designed not to appear like a salary dump, so Wren could try to save face for signing one of either Lowe or Kawakami.
Sad to say, Melky was the “designed not to appear like a salary dump,” face-saving-for-dumb-segment-of-fanbase part, but that’s what you get when every team knew that: 1) Lowe couldn’t be traded, 2) Vazquez has a limited no-trade, and 3) Wren can’t make other moves without moving salary first.
“Dunn, Cabrera and Arod(ys)” sounds about right.
@43, I think most folks are looking at Melky as the primary because the team was supposed to be ready to compete for the NL Playoffs in 2010. Arodys, as good as he might by 2013-2014, isn’t going to contribute to the effort. The main major league ready piece was Melky Cabrera so the deal is viewed that way.
If the Braves were the Pirates or the Astros or the Padres, the fans may view the trade as pitcher for prospect and salary relief like you say, but contending teams aren’t supposed to make these kinds of trades. You’re supposed to break down non-contenders for prospects and build up contenders.
but contending teams arenâ€™t supposed to make these kinds of trades
I don’t get this concept. If you never make a trade for young prospects, how will you ever expect to compete year after year. After all, it’s not just about this year.
Thank you, Cary.
2010 is supposed to be the year we make the Championship Push. Bobby’s last year and all that.
So what do we do? Act like some middle-market plodding horse somewhere about as good as Milwaukee (sound familiar, Frank?).
There will be plenty of time to rebuild when Chipper is officially done. This was supposed to be the year we reached for the stars, not played with our navel.
Good (a.k.a., the enemy of Great) seems to be what we’re striving for.
Um… you develop your own prospects. You sign free agents, when warranted. The Braves won the division every year for fifteen years, how often did they do it by trading an elite starting pitcher for a guy who might be good in four years? (“Sorry, Tom, but Brien Taylor was just too good to pass up.”)
What the Braves got for Vazquez was a 4th OF with maybe a little upside. He’ll be used to platoon with Diaz and backup CF. That, plus payroll flexibility to sign Glaus and (eventually…) a starting LF. Plus a young prospect who might be something in a few years. The “win now” portion of the deal wasn’t Melky; it was Glaus and some money. Let’s just keep that in mind when we’re looking at this deal.
@47 It’s evidently not about this year at all. I’m with you in principle–that contending teams should be working towards today and tomorrow–but this one really, really hurts today. I’m psyched that the Braves are so loaded with pitching prospects, but Wren’s inability to land a decent, affordable outfielder is beginning to border on chronic.
I think Wren is banking on that decent affordable OF’r to show up in June. Get Nady and move Melky/Acosta to the Cubs for a good solid INF prospect.
Vasquez/Logan/Acosta for Nady/Glaus/INF prospect/Dunn/Aroyds…does that make it sound a little better. I think the Braves have cut the payroll back and I dont think Wren couldve gotten any FA without making a move. Dont understand why freeing up the $7m to KK wouldve been a bad idea either.
Do you think that Liberty is cutting payroll, and Wren was forced to trade away salary?
The idea that last year Texas Tech dominated Texas more than Texas dominated Oklahoma is laughable. Texas beat OU by double digits. Tech beat Texas on virtually the last play of the game.
Texas/OU was played at a neutral location. Tech/Texas was played in Lubbock on a Saturday night. Biggest game in Texas Tech’s history. Very hostile territory for the Longhorns.
Plus, Texas was playing their fourth straight game on consecutive saturdays against top ten competition–OU, Missouri, Oklahoma St., Tech. That was a brutal schedule that nobody else had to face. Texas was exhausted when that game was played.
Oh yeah, Tech played Oklahoma at OU and got beat by 50. Everybody seems to forget that little gem.
Texas got jobbed last year.
College football fans, the ones interested in having a legit champ, get jobbed worse—every year.
Texas beat OU by 10, Florida beat OU by 10. hmmm…maybe the Texas/Fla game would have been a classic. We’ll never know.
Again, Tech outgained UT by over 200 yards, and was totally dominant the majority of the game. Oklahoma led most of the game in Dallas, and was outgained by a measly 3 yards. That game was a classic; the game in Lubbock was a snoozer until Texas threw a fluke 90 yard touchdown pass. Tech racked up almost 600 yards while Texas did nothing until the fourth quarter.
Further, Oklahoma’s schedule was tougher than UT’s, which didn’t play even a decent non-conference opponent. OU beat both TCU and Cincinnati, two BCS worthy teams last year. Missouri and OSU sucked. The idea that was some impossible stretch simply because a bunch of writers overrated those two teams is ridiculous. OU put up 125 points against those teams in consecutive weeks. Big whoop.
Texas’s arguments require caveman simplicity, such as the assertion that the final score is necessarily determinative of how the respective games went. UT wasn’t “jobbed” any more than USC was, or Alabama, or Tech, or, especially, Utah.
Teams are unfairly left out virtually every year. Ububba’s right, anyway.
Fluke 90 yard pass? Please. Texas dominated Tech in the second half of that game. Or do you believe that the 60 yard drive for a touchdown in the series prior to the 90 yard pass or the 80 yard drive for a touchdown in the series after the pass were flukes as well? What a weak argument.
And the caveman attack is funny. I didn’t know that the outcome is determined by anything other than the final score. The final score is irrelevant, i guess. Then again, Tech losing by 50 to OU is just an unfortunate statistic to leave out as well. I wonder what the total yardage was in THAT game?
And if it was such a snoozer, how did Texas come back? You must not have watched the game.
My point is that Texas was exhausted by the time they met Tech because they had played four top ten teams in a row. Maybe Missouri turned out to be overrated, but the rest weren’t. I maintain that if Texas had played Tech at any other time than that particular date, they win by two touchdowns. Even in Lubbock.
The best team did not represent the Big 12 last year. I wish there was a playoff to make arguments like this moot.
Guess what Raul Mondesi’s up to? Politics.
(Hat tip to Honest Wagner.)
And Utah went undefeated, but I don’t see anybody arguing that point.
Last year is over, and the BCS is complete crap. Those are both facts.
What a crock the 4th quarter of the Hawks’ game was.
The Mets also signed Bengie Molina, thereby sealing our doom. I wonder if they’ll hit him cleanup like the Giants did.
The Braves trading away a starting pitcher with one year remaining on his contract to free up funds is hardly unprecedented.
Kevin Millwood 1997-2002
3.73 ERA, 1.216 WHIP, 840-to-303 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 1004 and 1/3 innings pitched (7.5 K/9, 2.7 BB/9, 2.77 K/BB).
For some perspective, what Javier Vazquez has done over his past 5 seasons:
4.09 ERA, 1.203 WHIP, 1027-to-257 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 1062 and 2/3 innings pitched (8.7 K/9, 2.2 BB/9, 4.0 K/BB).
Yeah, Vazquez is better, but not that much better. They did it in the 2003 pre-season and only won 101 games that year. There’s no reason it can’t work in 2010.
The ACC sucks. Nice to see Wisconsin smack Miami around tonight.
I’m not sure I’d root for a team that started Melky and Dan Uggla.
Wren may or may not be incompetent (I vote the former), but his sense of style is certainly lacking.
I keep waiting for the news that we have signed Nady. However, the longer I wait, the more I wonder: could it be that we are really done?
How on Earth is the fact OU demolished Tech supportive of Texas’s argument. Texas didn’t destroy Tech, so all that did was make its loss to Tech look worse and gave OU the best win of the three tied teams.
Again with the final score. Yes, final scores matter. They determine who wins and who loses, but to act like you can look at the final score and fully understand the game is beyond silly. The RRR was tight the entire game. The UT/TT game was a disjointed mess which Tech easily could have led by 30 at halftime, and which Texas led a total of less than 90 seconds.
The two games between OU and Tech were closer to pedestrian than super difficult. They were home games against average teams. That they were top ten at the time was just a matter of coincidence. Neither of those teams was close to top ten in the country.
I’d still like an answer to the original question of how you would decide three-way ties. Only under the SEC’s would Texas have played in the Big 12 championship game last year. Considering the possibility that tiebreaker could rob a conference of a national championship game berth, it’s hardly obviously preferable. In wholly objective tiebreakers, like point spreads, OU would have won. So what are your criteria?
Since New Year’s Eve is probably a work day for you, I want to wish you Happy New Year!
And to ask if you caught that tribute to the Boss on the Kennedy Center honors show.
Sting, my homeboy Mellencamp, Melissa Etheridge,and others all did him proud with their performances.
But comedian John Stewart had the best line: Whether it’s his family, or his audience, or his country, whatever Bruce does, he always empties the tank.
“I keep waiting for the news that we have signed Nady.”
well, most likely we’ll have to wait until after Jan 4th for any news. DOB said the offices are closed until then and everyone is on vacation.
Is the Furcal rule still in effect with Glaus? Id assume so
For sure. Physical = more than a formality.
Yeah. They are going to look at every orifice on Troy’s body to make sure he can actually play.
I wonder if Jason Bay regrets turning down the Red Sox? Of course he has 6 million reasons not to but….
Given how the ‘elite free agents’ have done this off season I wonder what the market is for Holliday? As far as I have heard only St. Louis has overtly expressed any interest. Boston? Have y’all heard/read anything?
4/60 from Boston 4/66 from NY Mets….playing on a championship team, playing on a 3rd/4th place team? he must have hated Boston
Off topic and a somewhat weird request – does anyone know of a website that has the square footage dimensions for all MLB outfields. I’m curious how an expansive outfield such as SF’s compares with Cinci, etc. as far how much extra ground OF’s have to cover in each stadium.
So, the D-Backs are signing KJ for $2 million. That would be money well spent by the Braves.
Sorry to see Kelly go. He’s a guy you look at and think he should be a hitter. Maybe the hitting coach with the D’backs will straighten him out.
Kelly needs to play everyday, he should take that offer. He wouldnt have done anything rotting on the bench here. Even if Prado struggled Bobby would give him until the allstar break to make the change
Welp, the best free-agent utility infielder is off the table.
Anyone know where to find hit charts for Uggla? I’d love to see his homerun breakdown. I know he’s a dead pull hitter, and I guess he’s helped somewhat by the dimensions of Land Shark, or whatever it is they’re calling that place now. But I wonder if his home/road splits are really caused by that stadium or if it’s more luck. I seem to recall the home runs I’ve seen him hit clearing the wall by a goodly amount.
Left field power alley at Land Shark – 361 ft
Left field power alley at Turner Field – 380 ft
Down the line in left at Land Shark – 330
Down the line in left at Turner Field – 335
78 and 73,
Saw Up in the Air yesterday and enjoyed it very much, especially the part where Ryan Bingham (George Clooney) recommends Fat Matt’s Rib Shack to a girlfriend with a layover in Atlanta. The book’s author, Walter Kirn, also makes a cameo appearance.
In Wren’s defense, Melky is a league-average hitter (OPS+ 99 last year) and plus defender in center field at age 24. Although unlikely, he may well be worth more than Javy next year, and almost certainly will be more productive over his years of team control. That is without taking a-ball pitchers into account.
Given the Braves needs I’m not sure the trade hurts this teams ability to win in 2010 and increases our chances of doing so down the road.
Thanks & Happy New Year to you, too.
I’m actually going to take it easy this year for NYE. My gal has a flight out of Newark at an ungodly hour on New Year’s morning and, I guess, I’m driving her there. That’s one way to keep me sober.
Didn’t catch the Honors thing. Forgot to DVR it.
I did catch JCM on a pretty good “Spectacle”—Elvis Costello’s show on Sundance Channel. It was JCM, Kristofferson, Rosanne Cash & Norah Jones singing songs & telling stories.
On the show, a very fidgety Mr. Mellencamp kept asking Mr. McManus for a break so he could go outside for a smoke. Hope he doesn’t fly commercial too often.
The Braves will probably not do anything until after January 4–but it is striking to see that other organizations continue to sign players in the week between Xmas and New Years day….
@ 79, thanks. That’s a very cool site. Hadn’t seen it before.
After a cursory glance at Uggla’s homers last year, it doesn’t look like he hit many cheap shots, and hardly any that wouldn’t have been homers in ATL. Maybe he hits a lot of doubles off that wall?
@83, I don’t think you can assume that just because the Braves FO isn’t at work in Atlanta, that they aren’t doing anything. The apparent Glaus signing happened while Wren was on vacation in Mexico. I think it’s more likely that while Peanut, DOB, and other outlets are on vacation we’re just not hearing any of the goings on. I seriously doubt any MLB front office goes completely dark for two weeks in the middle of the free agent signing period.
KJ to the Dbacks. Good signing by them. He may hit 28 homers in that stadium. Yeah, we should have made an offer.
With KJ, what makes anyone think he’d sign in Atlanta for the same money he got in AZ? He’s starting on a team where the offense sucks…hell he might be a middle of the order hitter on that team. He wants a big season to maximize his FA value prior to the 2011 season. No way he’d get enough ABs in Atl to that, so we had no shot at the guy once we non-tendered him.
Melky Cabrera is going to be making more money than Kelly Johnson.
#85–I agree, but I was responding to another comment. However, my real concern is whether they are ‘finished’ with making major moves after they bring Glaus on board.
I agree with those who think that the Diamondbacks made a smart move in signing KJ for 2 million. Best of luck to KJ as well….
KJ will still be in his arb years. The D’backs control him through 2011.
So why are the Orioles going after Holliday? They’ve already got Luke Scott (DH) Nolan Reimold (LF) Adam Jones (CF) and Markakis (RF) with Felix Pie as their fourth OF.
Would they move Scott to 1B, Holiday to DH?? Or would they perhaps trade someone? Scott makes the most sense to move, baseball-wise.. But Markakis IS going to average 13 mill over the next 4 years… But that’d leave them with no RF.
Either way, maybe we can get a player there.
@91, The Orioles are getting set to make a run at the AL East in 2011 or so and could even be somewhat salty this year.
They could go with an outfield of LF-Matt Holliday, CF-Adam Jones, RF-Nick Markakis, with OF-Felix Pie as the backup. The DH spot can be used to rotate Nolan Reimold, Holliday and Markakis so everyone stays fresh.
Their rotation looks to be Kevin Millwood, Brian Matusz, Chris Tillman, Jeremy Guthrie and Jake Arrieta by the end of 2010 and they have a pretty decent bullpen in place with Mike Gonzalez to close, set up by Jim Johnson, Cla Meredith, Chris Ray and Koji Uehara.
In light of their timetable, adding another good bat in Holliday makes perfect sense to me.
As for the Braves, maybe Scott, Pie or Ty Wigginton would be available, but no way the O’s trade Markakis.
No problem. I take no responsibility for any addiction to that site haha.
That’s a stretch. I mean, if you squint hard enough you can get him to plus at a corner, but in reality he’s ~5 runs above average at a corner and ~5 runs below average in center field.
I doubt he’ll read this but good luck to Kelly in Arizona. I don’t know why but I always liked that guy.
Well I don’t think I’d want to pay Markakis 15 mil in ’13 and ’14 for an .838 OPS and 20 HR.
I don’t think trading Pie makes any sense from the O’s POV anyway. He’s not making anything and maybe he figures something out. Makes a nice 4th OF since he can play center if Adam Jones misses any time. I don’t see any hold that Pie would fill for ATL.
I was mostly referring to Luke Scott. Wigginton might fit our club, as he’s played 3b, 1b, and the OF. For his career he averages a .780 OPS and 22 HR for 162 games. But he was pretty bad last year and makes 3.5 mil this year.
But I’d like Scott for LF, back up Glaus at 1b, and allows Glaus to back up Chipper at 3b. Diaz would start in RF. Eventually, Heyward to RF and Diaz and Scott can split time in LF. Or you move guys around if Glaus or Scott or Diaz isn’t hitting.
@90 – my fault, you are on the money. Nonetheless the point stands…Kelly will get more of an on-field opportunity in Arizona than he would have in Atlanta, and I’m fine with that. KJ is a very likeable player and a good player but if he was starting for Atl this year I would be banging my head against a wall. I can’t watch him hit .100 for two straight months again. The months he hits .400 are nice but they are too few and far between to balance out his periods of crap production.
Is there any chance the Braves use the remaining 7 million or so on Xavier Nady? Am I the only person who thinks he would be a steal?
Who else is rather angry behind that Cavs-Hawks game?
@97 I’m angry. Don’t get me wrong, Mike Woodson is a really, really unimaginative coach who is either unwilling or unable to change his system to fit his roster, but this one is on the refs. So much in the NBA is, and David Stern won’t lift a finger to fix it–because that would entail admitting some kind of fault. I have said it many times: until the NBA deals with its officiating problems, it just won’t appeal to as many people as it should. I’m teetering on abandoning it again myself.
Maybe this is old news to some, but Leach was just fired at Texas Tech. As has been discussed, this is one of the strangest coaching situations I’ve ever seen.
The Pac-10 is really impressive.
Oh, yeah, I agree. The officiating is why I’m angry.
I’ve always liked KJ, too. I only make it to Atlanta for a couple of games a year. I went on my birthday one year, mostly to see Hudson pitch, and I remember being really excited when I saw his name on the board in a surprise call up.
Since he made his MLB debut on my birthday in a game I happened to attend, and I was the only one in the stands who knew who the heck he was at the time, I’ll always have a positive feeling when I see him play. It helps that he scored a run, knocked a guy in, and reached base twice (all with no hits).
Someone said KJ is still in his arb years.
Is that true once a player becomes a free agent? I think he can now reject arb as any free agent can,
arizona can control KJ for 2011 as well given that he will have less than 6 years of service at the end of this year.
Better system: Phillies or Braves?
Jim Callis (3:08 PM)
104 – But Arizona hired KJ as a free agent. Are you sure that he is treated as if he came up in their organization?
105 – I might have to dig a little deeper, but I think Callis is wrong.
The Braves system appears to have a lot of pitching prospects, but few position players. After Heyward and Freeman, what really outstanding players are there in the system?
It’s close. Before the Halladay trade no question Philly’s was better.
Do you mean position players? Well, Christian Betancourt is close to a top-100 in all of baseball, and I’m really high on Adam Milligan.
the cubs are in need of a centerfielder, and they would like melky cabrera. the braves could probably have their pick of one of the cubs top 2-3 offensive propects. i really like the sound of this guy.
he sounds a lot like heyward but the scouting report says he’s athletic enough to stay in center field.
as far as position prospects are concerned, i like all of these guys and this year could be make or break seasons for all of them:
(in no particular order)
1. Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburg
2. Willy Cabrera (Jose, for reseach purposes)
3. Adam Milligan
4. and my personal favorite, Matt Young (who gets looked over way too much)
5. Gerardo Rodriguez
6. Ernesto Mejia
From scouting reports, Milligan seems to be the only one of these guys that projects as a potential starter, but I guess only time will tell. I’m really rooting for the South African, RSF, as i could see myself sporting a Spanjer-Furstenburg jersey that wraps completely around the numbers.
the braves could probably have their pick of one of the cubs top 2-3 offensive propects.
I think that’s a stretch. A big one.
And Mejia is now with the Royals.
how about Melky, a bucket of valve stems and the first 3 seasons of 90210 on VHS?
my bad on mejia.
i dont think trading melky for a prospect that is in the top 10 of the cubs organization is a stretch at all (maybe not the “top” prospect). melky is under team control for 3 more years and could have some value as an everyday centerfielder (which is the way the cubs would use him).
i guess i’m altering my comment a little, but i think it’s probably fair to assume that we could get a top 10 prospect for Melky.
Come on, Melky is at least worth 3 seasons of 90210 on DVD
I would nut myself if we could get Ryan Flaherty.
It should probably be mentioned that while Arizona could sign a free agent Kelly Johnson for 2 mil, the Braves could not have kept Kelly Johnson from the free agent market for 2 mil. They would have had to pay him +/- 4 mil in arb.
They could have non-tendered him and then signed him for $2 million.
The Mets non-tendered more players (4) than did any other MLB team this year, and yet not one of those whom they cut loose was named “Jeff Francoeur”.
109 – PW, I am not sure it is that close. The Braves’ should be at least a notch above the Phillies.
Here’s a quick count of the prospects based on John Sickels’ grading system.
“A” prospects – Braves 1, Phillies 0.
“B+” prospects – Braves 1, Phillies 1.
“B” prospects – Braves 4, Phillies 0.
“B-” prospects – Braves 3, Phillies 3.
“C+” prospects – Braves 11, Phillies 11.
I think “B” prospects generally translate to guys in the top 150 in all of baseball. The Braves have 6 of those; the Phillies 1.
I know this is just one guy’s opinion, but it is not my “homer” view and it seems a lot more researched than a one-line response in the lightning round of a BA chat.
Also, Citi Field played more or less neutral last year. It is a mistake to interpret a down power year from David Wright as a case that Citi kills power. The Mets didn’t hit a lot of HRs last year because they played a lot of scrubs with no power. I see little reason to think Bay will drop notably next year in the power department.
115 “Flash” Flaherty for Melky seems like a no-brainer for the Cubs. I would hope for another arm or lower level bat.
By non-tendering him he became a free agent. At that point it is Johnson’s decision where he plays, and he’s going to choose to play where he starts (Arizona) over where he’s a backup to Martin Prado. For the Braves to have kept Johnson they would have had to go to arb. Once they chose not to go through the arb process it was more or less a done deal that some team was going to take a chance on him as a starter, and thus he would not be back in Atlanta.
121—My point is that the Braves could have kept KJ for less than that $4 million arb figure. Probably time to move on, though, so I’ll stop obsessing over Kelly.
You are of course correct, value-wise, but fanboy Stu would be elated to get Flaherty and nothing more for Melky. It’s actually a pretty good fit, too, now that I think about it. We need infield prospects—and Flash is pretty close to being major-league ready—and the Cubs already have Starlin Castro.
Yes, Stu. That exchange makes good sense. I think an additional “C+” prospect from the Cubs would make it equal value.
JoeyT, I was at that game as well. I, however, had no clue who KJ was, as I was surprised that the Braves had released R. Mondesi (Pleased as well as surprised!)
That game was delayed by rain wasn’t it? Like a 20 min. delay after the bottom of the 8th?
No offense to you or Sickels, but if he’s not rating Dominic Brown as an “A”, there is something very wrong. Brown is a top-10 in all of baseball for me.
I’ll take the Braves over the Phillies in the end. After all, Heyward > Brown.
Before they traded Drabek and Taylor (both of whom I think are top-25’s), I’d have taken the Phillies. Trading away a pair of top-25’s will put a hurting on any farm system, though.
Callis is still just pissing over the Vazquez trade, I think.
So much for my Flash dream.
“The Cubs are close to a three-year deal with Marlon Byrd, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter).”
Im guessing Melky to the Cubs wouldnt happen now?
These are Sickels’ comments on Brown. Seems like borderline A-/B+ (as he rates Freeman) would be close to the top 25.
1) Domonic Brown, OF, Grade B+: Borderline A-. I love this guy, but the tools aren’t quite refined yet and they need to give him a solid consolidation season in 2010, start him off in Reading and leave him there until July no matter what he does.
FWIW, I like Taylor better than both Brown and Drabek. The downgrade the Phils suffered in the Halladay trade certainly hurt their system. The Phils might have edged the Braves before the trade, but I am not sure. To judge a system, you have to look past the top 3-4 players.
FYI – In Sickels’ eyes, the Phils gave up 2 “B+’s” and a “B” for two “B-‘s” and a “C+” in the Lee-Halladay exchange.
Here is a piece of good news to end the year: apparently the Cubs are about to sign Marlon Byrd….
It might be bad news. If the Cubs offered propsect(s) for Melky, and then we got Ludwick (on the back of a Holliday signing) and / or another mid level proven reliever and / or another proven utility guy, then I think the Cubs signing Marlon Byrd is bad.
If we might be tempted to sign him, however (which, if we HAVE Melky, I don’t think we are), you are correct. It is good news that he is off the board.
The Braves could have non-tendered KJ and signed him back in theory, but again if you are KJ why would you go back there if you can get more ABs elsewhere?
Pretty sure Melky will be on the team next year. Wren is going to sign another bat. I think it will be Nady/Damon, Braves/Yankees in some combination.
#132 – Yeah had he been given a choice KJ made the right move for his career. But I doubt the Braves even considered it. That would have been some pretty out of the box thinking on their part. I am over non tendering KJ and understand why the team did it but still pissed because KJ way > Francouer.
I gotta feeling that Melky will still be a Brave when the season starts.
I like Taylor as much as Brown, too.
Cliff–Is there any real evidence that the Braves were planning to trade Melky to the Cubs?
Jonnny #133 may well be right: Melky will be a Brave. Despite the fact that he traded Kotchman, Wren likes inexpensive players that the organization can control for a few years…
Happy New Year! Go Vols beat Memphis and Virgina Polytechnic
The usual rumor sites. I don’t know how real it was. But, if the Cubs were using that for leverage on Byrd, they didn’t use it too well.
Would the Cards be willing to trade Ludwick if Holliday is re-signed?
Merry New Year!
138 – They let Ankiel go. I don’t know of course but it wouldn’t make sense. Ludwick, Holliday and some bum named Pujols make for a pretty decent batting order.
Happy New Year Everyone!
Since it is going to be midnight here fairly soon, I want to wish everybody a Happy New Year!
May 2010 bring the Braves back to the World Series and may they win it!
Happy New Year to all
All that Melky-Cubs talk was pure speculation fueled by a Jon Heyman tweet.
maybe Hendry will trade Soriano for Melky and pay all of Soriano’s contract…he’s not that bad, is he?
Happy new year, and please be safe tonight, everybody.
Anyone got suggestions for fun baseball games on the wii? Just got one for Christmas.
I vaguely recall a brief discussion of a baseball game on here that involved the user as GM. It might’ve been on PS3, though. (I would have preferred a PS3, but I’m not in a position to complain. Besides, my wife might enjoy the wii fit stuff.)
Happy new year to all.
MLB Front Office Manager was the one to which I was addicted for a few months — but that was on my 360. I kinda doubt there’s a Wii version.
I think that’s the one I remember being mentioned. Doesn’t seem to fit the wii mold — but, there are a lot of games that I don’t understand how they work with the wii interactive controls.
I think that’s the one I remember being mentioned. Doesn’t seem to fit the wii mold — but, there are a lot of games that I don’t understand how they work with the wii interactive controls.
someone over at AJC would trade Spruill, Delgado, and Hicks for Uggla – unreal
The popularity of Jeff Dunham continues to baffle me. It makes me weep for humanity.
Happy New Year everyone.
Boog’s alling the Duke/Penn game on ESPN2. It’s already a blowout, though.
I have a tough decision to make. I typically root for SEC teams whenever they play anyone else, but tonight, UT is playing VT. SEC vs. ACC is usually such an easy decision, but I just don’t know if I can NOT root for Kiffin to be embarrassed.
At this point, I’ve decided that I’ll root for UT unless they’re wearing those ridiculous black uniforms. I just don’t think there’s any way I can root for Tennessee if they’re wearing those.
Regarding a previous conversation, Navy is currently kicking Missouri’s ass.
[Sorry, I don’t think I can leave this up. — MT]
Looks like Crompton has relapsed.
sdp…incredibly tacky if that’s his number!
I don’t know how I feel about that being posted.
In the interests of limiting your liability, I’d probably err on the side of caution – not that I am ethically saying one way or the other.
Nice showing by Kiffin and the Vols. They’re clearly a program on the rise. I’m sure the rest of the SEC is just terrified.
Actually, Frank’s wife answered. I asked about the puppies for sale–I could clearly hear his voice in the background. Childish, I know.
Darn. What did I miss?
FW’s phone number is listed–I called.
Happy New Year everyone! No better way to spend it than at home with the flu.
So, how did you get Wren’s digits sdp? You interested in him or something?
Rob–Sorry you are down the flu…not the best way to begin a new year and decade….
I guess that Byrd (Furcal rule still applies) will be a Cub….
Good morning…and Happy New Year to all.
As I said, this year Navy is comparable to if not better than GA.
Navy is not, and never will be, comparable to Georgia, but who cares? Not every school can be a football factory. I think it’s a hell of a lot more impressive for Navy to win 10 games-regardless of their schedule–than for Georgia to go 7-5, or, for that matter, to win the SEC Championship. How would Mark Richt do if he had to win with the Navy players, especially knowing those players actually have to go to class?
I agree with several other posters that the Braves are pretending to contend this season to placate the fan base, but they are really aiming for 2011-2012, when Heyward, Freeman, Hanson, Escobar, and maybe others are the core. I see Wren trying to replicate the Phillies, who developed a core of players (Utley, Hamels, Howard, Rollins) and are riding them. Until then, I think the goal is to remain fairly competitive and perhaps steal a WC berth if things break right. Vazquez wasn’t going to be around in 2011 because if he had another great year, he would leave anyway and they are stuck with Lowe. Also, with Chipper apparently in his decline phase, the team will have a delicate situation in handling his lowered status.
I didn’t know Todd could throw it that far.
@170 Does that make Chipper the Jim Thome figure?
if we get Uggla, I can realistically see 160 HR’s this season compared to about a 120 projection from the start of 2009. That would certainly help
Happy New Year, all
Can this Mike Leach/Craig James thing get more bizarre? And how does ESPN cover this story when they are part of the story?
I think Texas Tech has shot itself in the foot. No way they get a better coach for their program than Leach. Although it was apparent that Leach wanted out last year when he worked hard for the Tennessee job and paid his own way to Washington to interview for that job.
MLB 2K9 for the Wii is pretty good, try hitting Wakefield’s knuckler, it’ll make you throw the damn controller….
170 – It seems reasonable, Marc, but we are close enough to being a contender that it seems the right moves could be made to get us into the playoffs this year. We should not have to sacrifice the future.
Of course, at this point in the offseason, I am at a loss for what those moves might be.
I also think we have more to start with than Philly did a few years back, epsecially in the pitching department.
174 – I did hear commentary by some of the Texas Tech players on Leach and it sounds like it might be a good thing he is gone.
Had to make a couple of phone calls. I turn back around and Northwestern has scored 14 to tie Auburn. They’re looking good to win this game.
Parish, I’ve heard pro and anti Leach comments coming from players and former players. I don’t think there’s a Mangino like revolt like there was at Kansas.
I know the majority of Tech backers in west Texas are disgruntled over losing Leach. Leach took them to their best season ever a year ago. And he was a constant thorn in the side of the Longhorns. You can’t underestimate how well that played to the sand aggie fanbase and their inferiority complex regarding all things Texas.
Man, Auburn is hard to watch.
178 – I am thinking that you would almost always see more support from players for their coach when he gets canned than there has been in Lubbock, especially a winning coach. There seems to be something to this.
I have to say, as a Vandy grad, I feel more akin to Northwestern than I do to the SEC’s Auburn. 61 years since a bowl victory? That’s longer than our streak.
Thanks, FBF. I’ll look into it.
Wow. Three 4th down conversions on one drive. It’s not often you see that.
Woah, that was huge. Blocked EP.
Aaaaand a fumble.
Navy beating a team that lost to Baylor doesn’t suddenly make them make them line up with Georgia. Sorry, I’m not impressed.
And I can’t remember a worse bowl meltdown than Auburn’s having today.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a QB throw 74 passes before.
What a terrible football game.
Gene Chizik may be Tom Glavine’s long-lost twin brother.
This Auburn game is amazing. I feel really bad for that NW kicker.
Illegal bat? Didn’t George Brett do that once?
Wait, so the ball Adams caught wasn’t really a catch, but THAT was?
They were splitting the baby, Bethany. Neither team was really happy.
Eh, I shouldn’t complain about officiating when they’ve played this poorly.
What else can go wrong for Auburn?
LOL at Auburn.
Now Northwestern has no kicker. Well, it appeared he was useless anyway.
That was a fitting ending to the weirdest game I’ve ever seen.
Still an awful game.
I liked the play call. It’s a meaningless bowl game at the end of the day.
I have decided to convince myself that Wren is offering 1-year deals so he can make a run at Werth next year. Schaefer-Heyward-Werth. That’s my story.
He’s offering one-year deals so he’ll have the money to pay Jurrjens, Escobar, and Prado next year.
Good luck cutting the highlights of that game! You’d need 15 minutes just to explain it.. hahaha.
Glad Auburn won. Since it looks like LSU is struggling against PSU, it would’ve been a shame if AU had given that win away.
Up 14 less than 4 minutes left, Auburn gives up a 4th down conversion & eventually gives up the TD to make it 35-27.
They block the PAT, recover the onside kick, then fumble.
They sack the QB on 4th down, but get called for a facemask. First down. They give up the tying TD/2-pointer.
They fumble the kickoff & NW misses the winning FG.
Up 3 in OT, they “win” one replay call & “lose” another. NW misses its FG, but Auburn roughs the kicker. First down.
Still, NW outsmarts itself into a loss.
Losta strange there.
Wow, four Tennessee basketball players arrested at a traffic stop on drug and weapons charges.
no chance if Werth wants Bay $$$
Wow, the turf at the Citrus Bowl is gone.
It was gone during the Wisconsin-Miami game. It’s mostly paint now.
Yeah, I forgot the Champs Sports Bowl was there too.
I would give Jason Werth Bay money long before I would consider giving it to Jason Bay.
mraver, I prob would too, just dont see the Braves making that big of a deal unless Chipper’s contract is gone.
The Tennessee bball players story is all kinds of awesome. Marijuana possession, open container alcohol, guns with serial numbers filed off. And of the four players arrested, not one was the owner of the car.
Just awful to be a Vol fan for the past 18 hours.
At least we beat Memphis. This isn’t looking good. Pearl will probably kick them all off. Tyler Smith, what a waste.
It sounds pretty serious and it is a shame.
What a bunch of games today.
I also agree werth is worth bay money more than bay is. even without chipper, a future lineup of schaefer/prado/heyward/werth/mccann/escobar/freeman/3b looks good to me.
Just grasping at straws and musing about nonsense but it’s fun to think about.
Thom Brennaman doing the Sugar Bowl with Tebow playing. This is what the mute button was invented for.
Haha. At least it’s not those CBS clowns.
Where was this vs. Alabama?
Um… Alabama is a wee bit better than Cincy, particularly on defense.
True, Mac, but Florida is running a different style, Tebow is more accurate with his passes, and our receivers are actually catching passes.
Like that touchdown pass just now to Deonte Thompson. We didn’t make those catches against Alabama.
I was more talking about the defense. Which actually seems interested this game.
Yeah, there’s definitely more intensity. I agree.
Oh, there’s another sack. Point well made.
This game is a mismatch, but if they weren’t interested vs. Alabama, then they’ll never be interested.
Hawks trying to blow it in OT vs. Knicks.
I agree with you, ububba. It just makes the Alabama game more maddening. I think Cinci’s lack of a coach is hurting them more than I would have imagined.
I can’t explain the difference in intensity. I don’t get it. If they were playing like this vs. Alabama, we might be playing a game later in the week. Lame.
We’re better than you. Just admit it.
No kidding. You didn’t play like this against Alabama because they wouldn’t allow you. I’ve always heard that Florida fans aren’t exactly the sharpest tools in the shed. Rob Cope is really bringing that to light.
I’ll say this as a Texas fan – I’d much rather play against Bama than the Gators.
Wow – this game sucks.
It might be a better matchup for you, since what we do best is stop the run and you can’t run anyway.
I think I just heard Billick say that Florida’s offense was “not a big play offense”.
Why, again, did the NCAA think it was a good idea to give broadcast rights for the Sugar Bowl to Fox?
Because they were willing to pay for it.
$20 million per game per year.
This is a bigger ass kicking than the one Georgia put on Hawaii in ’08.
I think the biggest difference is in the lines. Florida is whipping Cinci’s lines on both sides of the ball, whereas Alabama whipped both of Florida’s lines.
That’s the first thing you look at.
The lesson, as always: the Big East is not a real BCS conference.
Is the Pac-10?
Well, the LA schools won. Over Temple and Boston College, but still.
Wow, Jeremy, that’s a bit too far. I was referring to Florida’s tempo before the game turned towards Alabama’s advantage. We were flat. That’s all I was saying.
Alabama is clearly better than Florida this year, Mac. I guess that means a lot to you since you haven’t heard that from a Florida fan this decade.
Well, I’m always one who doesn’t call a game at halftime. My thinking is ‘If Florida can score 30 in the first half, so can Cincy”. That’s happened like once when I think that, and I’m pretty sure it was back in high school. Never say never!
Well, I’m not ready to call the game for the Gators yet, but my mom did just ask when Brantley was going to get a chance to play.
Well, Florida was up on FSU 31-3 in the 4th quarter in ’94, and we ended up “tied”, whatever that is. So, anything can happen.
Of course, that was FSU in the 90s and not Cincy.
I think Meyer should take the second half off and have Addazio coach.
If Florida wanted, it could win this game by a computer score.
Too bad those Academians at NW couldn’t beat those jail birds at Auburn. That would have been huge for NW and the big 10 going 2-0 against the SEC. But once again they spilt and the overall record between the two conferences in the outback and capital one bowl remains even over the last 11 years. PSU took care of business and that moves them to 6-2 against SEC teams since 1990. Way to go Joe!
@241, Bama will take 2005 over Florida as well. That was this decade, correct?
All-time in bowls vs. the Big 10, the SEC is still way ahead.