How do the Braves have Labor Day off?
Jerry Royster Statistics and History – Baseball-Reference.com
Years With Braves: 1976-1984, 1988
Notable stats: .246 BA, .319 SLG.
Notable accomplishments: First foreign-born manager in Korean baseball.
Versus
Bret Boone Statistics and History – Baseball-Reference.com
Years with Braves: 1999
Notable stats: .310 OBP, 82 OPS+
Notable accomplishments: First third-generation player in major league history.
Royster was also 53-94 when he managed in Milwaukee in 2002. I’d say that seals it for me, as much as Boone sucked when he was with us.
Easy for me. Boone was better.
Despite Boone’s other obvious deficiencies, I’d always rather have a guy who’ll crank out 59 XBHs.
Royster rarely had 25 in a season & usually didn’t even have 20.
Best things I could say about Royster? He had his best year in ’82 when they won the NL West and, one famous error aside, he hit well down the stretch.
Also, he was versatile. He was basically a utilityman on mostly bad teams, someone who was given too many ABs, considering his modest abilities.
Re: Labor Day
And what is wrong with MLB that so many teams get Labor Day off? I mean, really. Memorial Day & Labor Day are great days to go to the ballpark.
Neither player really belongs in this discussion. Boone was a very good player who had his one bad season in an Atlanta uniform. Royster was a utility guy who had to start because Ted Turner messed up the farm system for a few years. I vote for Francoeur,
The story of Bret Boone is fascinating. It seems to indicate that, yes, steroids can work magic.
How else to explain a “Flowers for Algernon” type rise and fall of his homerun power?
@4—Flowers for Algernon I loved that book. My freshman English class read that in the fall of ’66 and they almost fired the English teacher for it. The parents that led the case for her dismissal, said we should be reading books like Call of the Wild. 43 years later, I still can’t stand their kid. Just for that reason I’ll associate Bret Boone with those parents, and he gets the vote. I’d rather have Royster, besides I thought it was always cool seeing where he would be playing each night.
oh, the Braves aren’t playing? just as well. they relieved me of the stress of a late Sept. pennant race. i’m on my way to the tailgate party for this weeks’ sports amusement.
from the previous thread:
to coach,
ignorance is bliss? that statement doesnt really justify your argument or prove any point whatsoever.
on the ajc thing, i actually would rather spend my time reading posts that really reflect on the braves then to go over to the ajc.
sorry for not knowing you posted that over at the ajc. remember, we’ve only been “graced” by your presence here for about a month now. trading vazquez or mike gonzalez in the middle of a pennant race would infuriate any braves fan and we would have all been left to ponder the “what if” question. plus, the risk of trading vazquez for a slightly better prospect/player than we can get in the offseason is dumb. gonzalez, being a possible type A and at the end of contract wouldnt have gotten anyone of significance if he were traded.
do you recall the cliff lee trade? the phils got lee and ben francisco and basically gave nothing up of value. in fact, the 4 guys the indians received do nothing particularly well. vazquez, although a year left in his contract, would not have gotten anything of impact at the time due to teams not wanting to get RID of major league talent during a pennant race. in the offseason, many teams are revamping and will be willing to trade key pieces for key pieces.
so, i want to know why you think frank wren has done a “mediocre job at best? he put a competitive team out on the field without sacrificing the future. if you think he did a poor job, then your “2010 or bust” surname is a contradiction. he signed 1 guy to a 1 year contract. kawakami, vazquez, lowe, church, ross, infante, and mclouth were all moves to help now and help in the future. the only thing i could say that wren did wrong was to trust francoeur with the starting right field job, but i’m pretty sure his hands were tied.
I didn’t grow up with college football, but around this time of year I wish I had. I’d like the game much more if I had a team to pull for.
@4,
I love “Flowers for Algernon” too. Great reference.
Ryan C, our Braves were never going to make the playoffs this year, and I never allowed myself to believe otherwise right from day one.
AS it is, Vazquez will still be traded and we will likely get draft picks for Mike Gonzalez.
Considering the Phillies situation (and ours) with Brad Lidge, we could and should have traded Gonzo to them.
My hindsight isn’t 50/50, I called it a month before the trade deadline and I’m an idiot. Frank Wren never saw the opportunity, which makes the man a complete imbecile. Gonzo traded for who you ask, ever heard of Michael Taylor? I didn’t think so.
2 months of Mike Gonzalez would not have gotten 6 years of Michael Taylor.
Not in a million years.
I’ll defend the season Fran Wren has had 5 days a week and twice on Sunday. We won’t win this year but the future looks bright because of the moves that Frank made and those he didn’t.
50/50 hindsight???????
Coach you crack me up.
Rob I’m with you. My college alma mater didn’t have a football program and because I’m kind of a contrarian I refuse to drink the Ohio State University kool aid. The way the game is being played now with the spread options offenses and gifted athletes all over the field is cool. But alas I don’t have a team so its hard to be passionate about it. Any suggestions anyone?
Coach, you seem to be confusing your pessimism with clairvoyance. I’ll eat my hat if you knew Chipper would hit .200 in August and McLouth would go on the DL and Soriano would collapse and Lowe would be terrible and McCann would slump and so on and so on.
Royster was worse. Boone had power and good defense and numbers weren’t too bad for a 2nd baseman.
Boone was on steroids….enough said.
what makes you think the braves could have gotten michael taylor when he wasnt involved in the indians trade? you make no sense.
anyone can get a prediction right when they make a hundred of them. btw, the whole “i’m an idiot” to soften your words is tiresome. just be a man and admit you think you know everything, to which, idiot or not, you obviously think you do.
weldon, he knows….he. always. knows.
hooray, a day went by where the braves didn’t lose!
Johnny,
Have I got the college football team for you. That is, if you really enjoy Charles Shultz, Sisyphus, rooting for the Cubs (and, recently, the Braves), trying to disprove Einstein, fighting a land war in Asia and other acts of madness – may I present:
Ta da!: The University of Kentucky Wildcat Football team.
(Hey, at least we won our opener.)
The Vols are back fellas
Flowers for Algernon?
I thought we gave him up in the Vazquez deal.
Coach you must be smoking some good sh..
Wow, that FSU Miami game was great
Parish will be here all week folks, please tip your waitresses. Very funny
Boone was doing steroids, yes…but a)there’s plenty of reason to believe he was not on them with us, which is really the point of this discussion here, not what he did somewhere else (in fact, he probably went on them after having such a horrible season with us); and b)he was still a very good defensive 2B and was a part of a pennant-winning team.
Meanwhile, I can’t really find any use for Royster. Just because he could play every position doesn’t mean he was useful in any way whatsoever. Also, the teams he was on were so terrible that I think perhaps people are having a tough time putting it into context (this could be a problem with any pre-’91 player vs. post-’91 player matchup on this thing). There’s no way of knowing, but I think it’s pretty likely that Bret Boone would not have been one of the worst players on the teams Royster played on. If you look at the numbers, Royster’s seem far worse.
In the end, Boone did have a horrible year with us…the worst of his career. But he did do some useful things for a team that won the NL pennant. Royster had 10 years of general awfulness for teams that (with one exception) did absolutely nothing.
I’m definitely not clairvoyant, just possessed of a triple digit baseball IQ 🙂
Here, tie this one on for size.
Albert Pujols is the greatest baseball player to ever set foot on a baseball diamond, bar none. He will will surpass both Aaron and Bonds while putting the HR record out of reach.
Of course, I would have said the same thing two or three years ago. Some things are just obvious or they should be.
Am I the only one who doesn’t want to trade Vazquez? Vazquez, Hudson, Jurrjens, Lowe, Hanson… what a rotation! Try to trade Kawakami. Doesn’t get as much in return, I know, but add KJ and Medlen (unless we need Medlen as our closer next year…) and you have a nice package for a decent OF.
Finding out that Coach posts at the ajc site ranks pretty high on the ‘Least Shocking Things Ever’ list.
My college alma mater didn’t have a football program and because I’m kind of a contrarian I refuse to drink the Ohio State University kool aid. The way the game is being played now with the spread options offenses and gifted athletes all over the field is cool. But alas I don’t have a team so its hard to be passionate about it. Any suggestions anyone?
Sounds like your in Ohio, why not Cincinnati? That’s a program on the rise. Really just pick a team and go for it. College football is awesome.
I understand your problem though. I don’t have a NBA or NFL team, definitely dampens my enthusiasm for those sports.
No College Football, no NFL, no NBA over here. So I’ll end up watching Soccer and Golf the next months. How bout that!?
The solution to generating enthusiasm in ANY sport is remarkably simple, one word only: gamble. Just have to have a vested interest and all of a sudden you can care as much as you want about any sporting event…
@21-Completely agree about FSU/Miami. I was a bit perplexed by their decision to let ~25 seconds run off the clock rather than burn a TO after they got the ball to the 3 yard line and then run a crappy option. But other than that, no complaints. Great game to watch!
that game last night was one of the best that i’ve seen in person. the crowd filed out of the place in a weird stunned silence. just anothr in a long series of frustrations against miami. but, being a braves fan, i’m used to it.
The Braves need a third baseman more than an outfielder.
Hrm. Is Cox getting the Francoeur-Giles treatment?
If you are going to get the credit for all the wins, then you need to take the blame for at least some of the losses. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but, for sure, Bobby has not had a good year.
#17 – Very funny. For a short while I was a USC (Univ. of South Carolina) follower, so I know your pain. Probably to the 10th power.
Robert – good suggestion. However, here in Columbus, Ohio, football outside of the Buckeyes simply doesn’t exist.
Like Timo I’ll be watching a lot of soccer this fall. As well as attending cross country meets.
Johnny,
Of course, if you want to be a full-on contrarian, there’s always that school from Ann Arbor.
Or you could go for, like, West Virginia.
Dear Robert, HEE HAW, HEE HAW !!!!
I don’t have an NFL or NBA team, and I really wish I had an NFL team. I couldn’t care less about the NBA.
Anyone have any suggestions for an NFL team?
Ububba,
My son has done the full-on contrarian monty and gone over to the dark (maze and blue) side. So far he has managed to dodge all the rocks thrown at him when he wears his Michigan gear to school. 🙂
I guess the reason that I can’t get into Ohio State football is the all consuming Buckeye all the dang time, 7 by 24 by 365 thing here in Columbus. Had Navy won this last weekends game there would have been 700,000 people on suicide watch. As it is with the close call there are 700,000 people in therapy now.
I like Bradley’s write up. It is fair. I also think Brad Mills would be a great manager.
Rob,
You’ve got 3 down there. You like the Rays, right? Why not go for the Bucs?
The thing about the NFL is that it seems like, more than any sport, you’ve got fans rooting for teams that have little to do with their homes. Or fans who out-and-out reject the home team.
Growing up in Georgia in the early ’70s was kinda like that. I knew a bunch of people who didn’t have the guts to root for the Falcons, so there were plenty of Cowboys & Steelers fans. (I’m a Falcons fan, but I also kinda liked the Willie Lanier-era Chiefs.)
Here in NYC, you had that almost generation-long deadzone of crappiness (1970 to 1984) from the Jints & Jets, so you always see lots of Dolphins & Cowboys gear here—mostly from guys my age.
Of course, you also don’t get the college-football craziness here. Jets/Giants people always ask me, “You must be a big Falcons fan.”
And I respond, “I’m a fan, I’ll watch the games & root for them, but it doesn’t break my heart when they lose, not like the Dawgs. It’s kinda like that all over the state of Georgia.”
“Why’s that?”
“Because nobody ever graduated from the University of Atlanta Falcons.”
I think Chino Cadahia would be a great manager…. at Denny’s.
We need a manager that has Bobby’s optimistic and positive ways — definitely not a Larry Bowa type — with a bit less patience sticking with players who aren’t going to cut it (like Norton), and someone who can manage a bullpen.
Wow, Coach is getting blasted on AJC too.
Re-up Bobby for one or two more years and name Mad Dog bench coach and manager-in-waiting.
sdp, if you’re gonna keep making fat jokes about poor Chino, at least put some effort into it. Hardee’s is a much fatter choice.
Interesting comments accompanying the Bradley column. Somebody blasts Bobby for having the best team in baseball in each of six years, yet only winning once. I think the Braves were the best team in MLB maybe 3 years.
Thoughts?
@46,
1996 was a ball-breaker, for sure.
@19
Good one!
46,
According to Phil Birnbaum, the 1997 and 1998 Braves are the second and third best baseball teams from 1960-2001. Behind the 1969 Baltimore Orioles.
#46
I can’t bear to wade through the soul-destroying comments on an AJC blog, so I’ll ask:
Really? Which years? As great as the Braves teams were, how many times did they lose to a team that they were much better than? (Remember, they won a bunch of series, too.) And we do realize that we’re discussing short series in MLB?
I mean, it’s hard to say that the ’91 or ’92 teams were a lot better than their WS opponents (if at all). In 1993, the Braves were great, but so was Toronto. Philly pitched well in the ’93 NLCS & their lineup was good & deep. Atlanta was probably better than the Phils, but not by a lot.
FWIW, look at the ’94 Expos’ roster & tell me that the ’94 Braves were any better.
You could argue that the ’95 Indians (100-44) were “better” than Atlanta.
The ’96 Yanks was probably the “weakest” club in their run—Pettitte aside, their rotation was shaky all year and relievers not named Rivera & Wetteland inexplicably turned it up in the post-season. But their lineup was terrific & so was their bench.
Also, in the ’96 WS, Atlanta was missing David Justice & Pedro Borbon. I can’t say one team was dramatically better.
In ’97 & ’98, it felt like we were shut down by Kevin Brown. I think the Braves were better than the Marlins & the Padres, but not by a lot. (Also, if you’re going to call the ’98 Braves the “best team in baseball that year,” you need to put down the Scotch.)
1999? 2000? Do we really wanna go there?
2001-05: Arizona? Giants? Cubs? Houston?
I think the ’02 team had a helluva chance & should’ve beaten Russ Ortiz in a Game 5. The ’03 team would’ve had trouble beyond the NLDS—remember, Smoltz would’ve been unavailable.
Gun to my head: 3 times. But those margins weren’t large. Honestly, there was no club that made me say, “That team’s just no good—how did we lose to them?” It’s not like we lost to the Dodgers in ’96, the Astros in ’97 or the Cubs in ’98.
I think this year you can quibble & bitch about Bobby’s use of Norton & the bunting of .300 hitters, but the post-season stuff I don’t really buy. If you look at LaRussa, Leyland & Torre you’ll find plenty of other “post-season failures.”
The way the playoffs are run now feels more like the NCAA basketball tournament. Great teams are going to get knocked off and sometimes good teams are going to go all the way.
@46
The Braves had a lot of very good teams, but unfortunately 11 of the 14 division winners happened with the expanded playoffs, in which the “best team in baseball” usually doesn’t win.
The Braves did have the best record in the NL 9 of those 14 years, so they may have been able to win more championships using the pre-1994 (or even pre-1969) playoff formats.
The Braves also won 100+ games in 6 of the 14 division title years, which I think is an amazing achievement that rarely gets mentioned. Joe McCarthy is the only other manager with 6 100+ win season. Heck, only 2 franchises (Yankees and Cardinals) have more 100+ win seasons than Bobby Cox does.
New thread/poll.