268 thoughts on “Hudsonian game thread: Sept. 1, 2009”

  1. I have a class on Tuesday nights, so I’ll be out during the game. Recap should be at the normal time — if reconstructed from the box score and game log — assuming it doesn’t rain.

  2. Still think we need 91 wins for postseason which means 22-9 the rest of the way. Not impossible but unlikely.

  3. I guess I don’t understand the Thome trade. What are the Dodgers going to do with him? He hasn’t played defense since 2007? Any ideas?

    Also Contreras doesn’t make sense to me. Giving up a “top pitching prospect” (Don’t know if that’s true) for him? I’m glad Wren didn’t make that deal.

  4. If LA gets to the WS they have a credible DH for 4 AL games, and a good PH/spot start 1B for the rest of the season and playoffs. It’s not like he cost anything much, so why not?

  5. Corky was terrrrrrible, but he only hurt us for 96PA. Mondesi sucked and stole electricty in the DR, which is awesome, but it only lasted 155PA. Alexis Infante was probably the worst stats-wise, but just for a cup of coffee.

    Guess who sucked during 2600+PA with the Braves? That’s right, everyone’s favorite right fielder, Jeffie!

  6. w/r/t Norton vs. Corky:

    Norton is a bad baseball player. He does one thing oddly decent, which is walk, but he only does that because he hardly ever swings anymore. Why opposing pitchers haven’t 100% figured this out is beyond me, but hey.

    Corky Miller is a different thing entirely. Oh yes, he’s very, very bad at baseball, and he helps my team lose. Just like Norton. But what he also does is make my team, my city, my state, my friends, ME…look completely impotent. It’s hard to nail down exactly how or why- you can say it’s that ridiculous nickname, his you-gonna-finish-those-Cheetos? physique, the look of equal parts terror and cluelessness he has on his face when he hits, etc.- but it’s there, always. It wasn’t that I was twerped that my organization thought Corky Freaking Miller was an acceptable option as a major leaguer, it’s that every AB that guy had, every start behind the plate, every time I saw him wear the jersey of my team, I was insulted down to my very atomic essence.

    The same also holds true of “Pictures” Lockhart, who I swear mouthed to the pitcher “please, mistah, don’t pitch it hawwrd!” every time he meekly dragged his bat to the plate.

    Also- Your poll needs Dan Klobb. I was there the last home game in ’05 when he pitched himself off the postseason roster against Colorado’s AA team. Happiest I’ve ever left an irrelevant game.

  7. I maintain that Woodward is the worst I ever witnessed. And I also protest the inclusion of Belliard, who if nothing else was lovable and a key part of the original rebuilding stage. Even if 7 year old me didn’t like him because he didn’t hit dingers, 25 year old me can appreciate what he contributed retroactively.

  8. Belliard was a big part of that 1991 defense that helped the pitching staff turn around. Here’s another protest.

  9. Wow, did anybody look up how bad Terry Blocker was in over 200 at bats? He’s gotta be in the top 2-3!

  10. Rafael Belliard was the starting SS on the WS-winning club. When he wore a batting helmet, I always thought he looked like Marvin the Martian from the Bugs Bunny cartoons. (“That makes me very angry!”)

    Due to Blauser’s injuries, he ended up starting almost all of Atlanta’s post-season games in ’95. He went hitless & made 2 errors against Cleveland, but he also made some big defensive plays, including a few crucial DPs during the post-season.

    I’ve still never seen his lone Braves HR at Shea. I was out of town that weekend & I remember picking up the newspaper the next day & my eyes almost bugged out of my head when I saw: HR—Belliard (1).

    I, too, have a soft spot for Belliard that defies numbers. But the fact is, he also helped us win a World Series, so he can’t be all bad.

  11. You cannot include Belliard, if for no other reason than the catch he made for the first out in the 9th inning in Game 6 in 1995. I have game on tape and Skip’s call gives me goose bumps. And he did hit a home run eventually.

  12. Rafael Belliard was the starting SS on the WS-winning club.

    It should be noted, for history’s sake, that Rafael Belliard, defensive specialist extraordinaire, is also directly responsible for the Braves most soul crushing WS loss. If he had not booted a routine double play grounder from Mariano Duncan the Braves would have been out of the inning and J*m L**r*tz would not have come to bat. The Braves would have taken a commanding 3-1 lead into game 5 with Smoltz on the mound.

  13. Including players who were terrible hitters while not recognizing their defensive contributions is skewered at best.

    Brad Komminsk was a massive bust. He deserves a category of his own.

  14. I wanna re-vote for Kolb. I originally had Caminiti.

    Belliard was good defensive, which along with guys like Langerhans and Francoer, keeps them from being included in a discussion of “worsts”. Some of those guys couldn’t hit or play defense. That’s bad.

  15. Komminsk was sadly overwhelmed when he got to the big leagues. With that down-and-up swing, he just looked so bad when he struck out.

    Whenever I hear the words “can’t-miss prospect,” I always think of him.

  16. @20

    I was there for that game! I went absolutely crazy and the Met fans were about to call an usher to have me escorted to Belleview.

  17. I’m interested to see what Hudson can do tonight, but we won’t really know what we’re dealing with until he gets 2 or 3 starts under his belt. No point talking about picking up his option next year if he pitches well or vice versa.

  18. Marte was a fine hitter and young for his league, as a Brave minor leaguer. I can’t believe (well I can) the JS had the nuts to trade him for Renteria coming off two terrible years in StL/Bos. We had no right for that trade to work out as it did, and to this day, I am unwilling to think that this was forseeable. I won’t call it luck, but it was damn sure drawing to an inside straight.

  19. I won’t call it luck, but it was damn sure drawing to an inside straight.

    Prior to that trade the Braves scouts reported 1) that Marte’s swing would be exploited and not translate well at the major league level and 2) rumors were he was juicing.

    I have no idea if #2 was the case, but the scouts were dead on about #1.

  20. FWIW, I wasn’t offering an opinion on the trade, just noting that he was a can’t-miss prospect who has missed.

    PS: Still no sign of sansho1, eh? Hope this is just a self-imposed break from the site / internet and that he’s doing OK. Mac, are you able to get in touch with him?

  21. Fair enough, Sam, but that’s only half of it. Marte was an exceptionally well regarded prospect – one would have thought JS might aim higher than Edgar Renteria.

  22. Andres Thomas by a mile. Maybe the younger guys don’t remember but Andres was the gold standard for shitty ballplayers and he lasted five seasons. Good for a sub .270 OBP every year, godawful defense at short, and – you think Jeffy was impatient – in 1988 he had 627 PAs and walked 14 (!) times. That’s damn near impossible. In ’89 they signed him up for another 571 PAs and he responded with a .213/.228/.316 line.

    Vote early, vote often, vote Andres.

  23. Hey Guys, back in the hospital, the menegitis just wont go away….thanks for all the prayers and good wishes, no if the Braves will just win the wild card, I can die a happy man!

  24. FBF,
    Good luck.

    Re: Andres Thomas
    In 1991, the Braves visited Shea for a June 3-game series. The Mets were doing alright, but they’d fall apart about a month later; the Braves were knocking on the door, but I don’t think even most Braves fans had any idea how good they’d end up.

    Anyway, in the first game of the series, Brian Hunter—No. 14 in your scorecard—came up to bat and the Shea scoreoard read: “Now batting… No. 14… Andres Thomas.”

    The graphics department was obviously asleep at the switch—they were using 1990’s media book, I guess—but my first thought was, “No-o-o-o, that’s the old Braves. This team is different!

    Braves took 2 of 3 in that series. It certainly felt like something had changed. Not having Andres Thomas was a big part of it.

  25. Can anyone that can stand to listen to the rain delay show give a heads up when the game is on?

  26. When tuned in Chip was mentioning the possibility of an hour delay and that the tarp was not on the field. I can’t really sit through any more of Chip and “the Lemmer” answering calls about the whereabouts of Wohlers and Sid Bream so I had to check out. Why did Skip have to leave us so soon? I loved the absolute disdain with which he took those sorts of calls.

  27. I would try to edit that but the edit function always locks up my machine. The tarp is on the field.

  28. It’s raining buckets in Miami right now. I’ll be surprised of they get this game in tonight.

  29. They dont know, I’ve been on IV Vancomyacin at home since 8/17, along withe Cephepine 3 times a day (each one). Being a medic, I know thats some STRONG stuff. They seem to think that maybe the piece of C1 that they had to shave off to replace on the back of my skull maybe the culprit. If thats the case, then I’ll need another surgery and have a titanium plate put in. So, the short answer is I dont know and neither do they. However, the food is first rate, I have a private room with a huge LCD tv, and Diluaded and Morphine is very nice……

  30. Speaking of more players who were labeled can’t miss…….

    Everybody remembers Chipper being drafted as the first player of the 1990 draft.

    However, the two guys drafted in 1989 and 1991 were both drafted as the second pick overall. Tyler Houston in 1989 and Mike Kelly in 1991. Both were major disappointment’s.

  31. By the way, we have a 50/50 shot at facing John Smoltz in St.Louis on Sunday the 13th of September.

    I Won’t know for sure until Wednesday the 10th (which is an off day) when Tony LaRussa resets his rotation.

  32. phillies up 1-0 in 7th and mets are up 2-0 in mid 1st. francoeur with a sac fly. if he comes through big for the mets in this series, is he forgive of all wrongdoings?

  33. i guess the braves organization decided against heyward sitting the rest of the year. he’s back playing for mississippi tonight. does this mean anything?

  34. Chip just said that it’s still raining hard at the field and there’s no sign of an impending start. Where is my life that I’m reporting on the internet things that Chip Caray has said on a rain delay radio show?

  35. pelfrey with 3 walks in the first and just walked in a run. 2-1. i hate the mets even when i’m supposed to like them.

  36. Voted for Jeffy… it’s just still too fresh in the memory. Besides, I liked Andres as a kid. Liked his batting stance. Cut me some slack, I was a kid and it was difficult to tell the difference between terrible and just bad on those teams.

  37. from carroll rogers:
    “OK there’s some movement. Tarp is coming off. The theory was that was to dump the water off the tarp and put it back on, but now they’re taking up all the little stuff too, the little pieces over homeplate, etc. I was told the bigwigs were to talk again at 9:30.”

  38. apparently there is a lot more rain in the forecast for tomorrow’s game also. the marlins need a dome

  39. via carroll rogers, game will start in about 30 minutes. if it dumps more rain, they might push it back.

    and mets lose the lead already. 4-2 colorado in the 2nd.

  40. @80 knows the secret…

    Damn it. Met a girl today, chatted for about fifteen minutes–ended up with her number. I texted and asked if she would like meet for coffee on Thursday almost an hour ago–no response. Is that too long?

  41. I’m becoming the Mike Hampton of Braves Fans…..sigh

    A 10pm start would be ok, I cant sleep anyway. Did we pick up anyone at the waiver deadline?

  42. @81 – Have you not seen Swingers?

    The rules on calling are broken down. Granted, this was before texting, but whatever.

  43. I’m pretty sure you’re supposed to text her every 10 or 15 minutes until she responds. And the texts are supposed to get angrier each time. Right?

  44. I would like to present my awards for extreme suck for the 2009 Braves.

    Worst Hitter:
    Diory Hernandez

    OPS+ 9
    OPS .410 and BA .141 (lower than D. Lowe and J. Vazquez)
    Offensive Win % .053 (9-153)
    Adj. Batting Runs -11.5

    Worst Pitcher:
    Buddy Carlyle

    8.85 ERA
    1 to 1 K/BB ratio
    2.16 WHIP
    5.42 xFIP

    Most Worthless Player:
    Gregg Norton

    81 Games
    2 Field Appearances (1B)
    84 PA
    0 HR
    6 RBI
    .138 BA
    .167 SLG
    WAR -0.8
    Salary $800,000

    Also: Voted Corkey in the poll.

  45. So maybe I should explain more: she brought up something interesting and she told me that she would text me the information because she didn’t have anything to write it down on. So she texted me while we were talking and that was how I ended up with her number–so, I didn’t explicitly ask for and get her number.

  46. Next year, in the outfield, do you run with McLouth, Church, and Diaz and hope that either Schafer or Heyward push their way into the lineup, or do you have to go get someone beyond a journeyman?

    That decision will affect a lot in the offseason.

  47. SDP,

    Yes I know it.

    Give her space, if she doenst text back, oh well. Her loss. Play it like you don’t care.

  48. Helton with a 3-run blast after Pelfrey issues back-to-back walks—7-2 Rockies in the 4th.

    “Another nightmare performance from Mike Pelfrey!” says Mets announcer Gary Cohen.

    The Mets and their fans are in deep self-loathing mode these days (even deeper than usual), so I like this trivia question from the Mets broadcast:

    Everyone knows that the Mets, in their 48-year history, have never had a no-hitter.

    But which pitcher threw no-hitters before and after he was a Met?

  49. Game day says “double to RF Diaz” but the runner only went to third. That’s a difficult thing to believe.

  50. Hudson’s stuff is up in the zone. Maybe it’s adrenaline but he is getting lit up. The double play helped to end the inning.

    2-1 Marlins. Huddy needs to settle down.

  51. If you didn’t expect Hudson to get battered at least a little bit, then you were terribly mistaken.

  52. sdp,

    Good luck with the lady.


    We’d owe you a lot of money if you were really the Mike Hampton of the Journal.

  53. I love hearing announcers complain about the lateness of the hour or length of a game. How about a little accountability guys. You’re getting paid to talk about baseball. Spare us the whining.

  54. It says a lot about Joe Simpson as a hitter that he goes crazy about “good swings” that don’t actually lead to hits, or even outs in fair territory.

  55. @125

    Those are probably still my favorite Joe Simpsonisms. I think other annoucers do that too. How can it be a good rip if you swing and miss?


    Why not? I just get annoyed at that stuff from supposed professionals. Chip and Don killed the moment in that 18 inning playoff game against Houston by constantly bitching about how long the game was going. How many baseball fans would kill to be in the position of being paid to call games?

  56. The FL announcers DEFINE homer. I mean most of the team guys are but they are just off the chizzy with it.

  57. I was talking about Don and Jim, who I generally like. They were just engaging in one of my pet peeves.

  58. The delay for me is usually a few minutes. I’ve been watching ESPN with .TV on the laptop and have seen the score change on the bottomline before the action happened on .TV. It’s not drastic though.

  59. UPDATE

    She says the day I suggested is her “busiest”–i.e. “Thanks, but no thanks!” She didn’t suggest any other day….Is she dodging?

  60. 152,

    Just say, “If you have some free time, let me know. Take it easy.” That way the ball is in her court and you don’t sound desperate or needy.

  61. @152 – I don’t know man. Just tell her to text you when she has some free time this weekend/next week to set something up. Don’t go on a fishing expedition.

  62. I just wanna say that I hope Huddie gets a chance to pitch some big games with this ballclub. I like my team’s chances when he’s on the hill. Whatever happens, you can tell he worked his ass off for a team that may or may not have him next year just to give his chance a team to win down the stretch. I tip my hat to you Timmy Hudson.

  63. @152,

    Rob is right. Put the ball in her court and leave it there. She may be interested and she didn’t say no. But don’t go fishing

  64. Did Hanley get traded to the Yankees for a bat and a couple of balls?

    Admit it, that would be very Marlin like.

  65. 162 – seriously. If I were a betting man, which I am, I would have bet everything I have that Pimpbot 16 was going to get a hit that AB, especially after seeing Sanchez’s ‘reaction’ after the Pontiac (TM) Game Changing Balk Performance of the Week.

  66. @165 Marlins trade away players as they get expensive but they get more than bats and balls. They got Ramirez (and Sanchez iirc) for Lowell and Beckett.

  67. Is it just me, or does this game have a very ’87 Padres/Braves September NL West game atmosphere to it ? But what’s weird is these teams are much better and are ‘fighting’ for a playoff spot, and yet it has the same eerie ‘I can heckle Wes Helms from the second deck’ feel to it.

  68. It has the feel of a mid 80’s Braves Giants matchup at the “Stick”. Used to go up there from Fresno when the Braves were in town and you could sit virtually anywhere you wanted. I was there one night when I think everyone could have sat on the rail!

  69. That’s a perfect analogy. Insert ‘it’s raining a shitload’ for tonight’s game instead of ‘it’s really f’in windy’ of late ’80’s September Braves vs Giants Candlestick games.

  70. Weird, I was just talking to Smitty’s barber and he told me that he just spoke with Marlins superstar Emilio Bonafacio who said former Braves outfielder and current Met Jeff Francoeur inspired him toward making next year’s Marlins roster when Jeff reportedly told him ‘hey if my team can give me 400-500 ABs with a solid .305 OBP, there’s hope for you’

  71. McCann needs to cool it with the bunting. It’s wouldn’t be a bad idea if he could actually get one down; as it is, he just wastes strikes.

    Of course, it doesn’t seem to hurt him…

  72. What ever happens this season, the pitching on this club is going to look pretty good next year and after.

  73. Nice stroke by Norton. That was more of a hit than ACHE’s.

    And now KJ to run for the much worse hitter who did manage to reach base.

  74. Nice to see Huddy rebound, but it does make for an interesting problem…..6 starters, 5 slots. The guy with the most bullpen experience in Lowe, but I doubt we shelled out $60 mil for a set up or long guy. So WTF do we do now?

  75. Since it is sort of established that KK doesn’t go deep into games (or pitch that well when he does), I wonder if there would be a scenario where you would schedule both Hudson and KK every 5th day- alternate who starts and who comes in from the pen, but with the knowledge up front that the “starter” is only going 4, or 5, innings and the next guy is coming in to finish the game off, period. That way each of them would get their work in, it would hopefully mean a complete day off for the bullpen every time, and it would possible maximize KK’s productivity while giving Hudson a chance to ease back into things, assuming that he needs that. It’ll never happen so the point is moot, but I am curious to see if anyone thinks there’s any merit to the idea…

  76. We need to start sweeping teams. Keep working guys.

    Welcome back Huddy!

    One off-day to Mac works wonder.

  77. From ESPN:

    “The Rockies improved to 14-3 when Jorge de la Rosa pitches since the beginning of June.”

    That’s just unfair.

  78. @239,

    If Huddy keeps pitching well, I would say pick up his option (it’s a team option isn’t it?) and see who comes calling for pitching this winter. As the Red Sox have found, these things have a way of working out.

  79. I’m not really concerned about this year. As far as this year goes, go with whoever is hot. As for next year, we can trade either KK or Lowe for the big bat we need. I would rather trade Lowe, since for several reasons, his age, salary, etc. We may be able to exchange his large contract for another.

    BTW, its almost sponge bath time, and my nurse is a HOTTIE

  80. Its possible, but this damn catheter makes the whole deal kinda tricky. Maybe I could just get them to go at it and watch…..any other suggestions?

  81. In more depressing news:

    Neftali Feliz has one earned run, 26 Ks and ONE WALK in 19 and two-thirds innings.

  82. @252: It’s Scott Thorman’s fault.

    FBF, see if your wife would be amenable to a lesbian experience.

  83. FBF,
    Just enjoy the attention & don’t freak out the nurse. They gotta lotta juice in that place, y’know…

    Saw Feliz last week at Yankee Stadium & the Yanks had no chance against him. He hit a guy, but that’s all they got.

    Re: Hudson
    Isn’t it $12 M (keep him) vs $1 M (we bail)?

  84. @256 I would prefer keeping Huddy. I would love to see if we can dump Lowe back to the Dodgers.

    @257 I am glad things for working out for the kid.

  85. I’m glad things are working out for him too, especially since we got two terrific years of Edgar Renteria, two and counting terrific years of Jair Jurrjens, and part of a pretty good year from Nate McLouth.

    The Andy Marte trade was one of the best things that happened to this franchise.

  86. everyone knew that we’d miss Feliz. I think its kind of surprising that we havent really missed much else from that package deal. Wish we hadnt of fooled ourselves thinking Jo Jo was better than Harrison, but I dont see iether one in our rotation at any point going forward so it doesnt matter. Salty hasnt impressed me that much

    Ububba, you got it. I dont see us moving KK or Lowe, would prefer one of those, but I think we deal Vasquez for a big bat. I just dont see the Braves releasing Huddy or letting him go without some type of return. I guess they could always try and renegotiate a new deal with him. Ideally, we move Lowe’s salary for a PTBNL and keep KK, Huddy, and Vasquez. Then resign Laroche, Gonzo, and call up Heyward. Do we then pray that Diaz keeps this up and keep Church around also?

    Either way, Wren has another active offseason on his hands and its going to be interesting to see what he can do

  87. csg, I have been thinking whether an outfield of Diaz/Church, Nate, and Heyward is enough…it’s obviously better than the outfield we had when we started this year, but I think we need a little more power from our outfield than the above group can provide if we can’t bring Adam back. If we can bring Adam back, I think we can live with that outfield.

  88. Kelly Johnson has a .845 OPS since coming off the DL. Martin Prado has a .695 OPS since KJ came off the DL.

    UPDATE!: Kelly Johnson has drawn 8 walks in 53 PA’s during that span. Prado has drawn 6 walks in 127 PA’s. Prado has 7 XBH. KJ has 6.

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