Los Angeles Dodgers vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – August 02, 2009 – ESPN
Ugh. This was a lot like the first game of the series, though Billingsley throws a lot harder than Zombie Schmidt; the Braves couldn’t get anything going and often looked quite bad; the starter pitched around trouble until he gave up a three-run homer, and at that point we could have all gone home. Jurrjens had two out in the fifth, and an 0-2 count on Kemp, and threw a high pitch, but not high enough. I thought Kemp got under it, but it just kept going and going and was well over the fence. Ballgame, because the Braves couldn’t do squat offensively, but then Jurrjens allowed another run before leaving after the fifth. It was 8-0 before they finally scored a run, Prado singling home Diaz. Prado had two hits; the rest of the team combined for three.
It didn’t help that the bullpen gave up four runs, one in two innings by Medlen, then two by Logan, and one by Atrosta. The Braves allowed nineteen hits; you don’t need me to tell that that’s a lot, and that if you give up that many you will probably lose. Diory Hernandez is really awful defensively, by the way. If he could hit, you could live with it. Seriously, if the Braves’ brain trust ever even considered trading Yunel, I hope this series knocked that notion completely out of their tiny little minds. Hernandez makes Andres Thomas look like Cal Ripken Jr.
Well this game settled the issue for me. This team isn’t a playoff caliber team. I know a lot of you have that blind faith but come next sunday I think you’ll all be on board
105 games into the season and our Braves are one game over .500
Which leads me to ask, when does spring training start?
And by the way, overall, our Braves have a 13.5 percent chance of winning the division and a 5.5 percent chance of winning the wild card.
Total is = 19.1 percent or I could have just said our odds are one in five.
How many damn times is Escobar going to have some nagging little injury? I know it’s not his fault, but we need him in the damn lineup.
Chipper is thiiiiiiis close to done.
yes, its unlikely we make the playoffs. if you ever thought it was a sure thing, you were way off. but despite our play–despite our record, its not out of reach.
going into the all star break, we sucked, and “the season was surely over”. after the break, we went on a tear, and “we will be competing for the playoffs after all!” then, we lose a few series, and, again, “the season is surely over.”
dont bet your house on a playoff berth, but its premature to give up at this point.
at least thats what i tell myself…
Yeah chipper is like a wounded deer out there. Granted ill catch an earfull from Mac who can’t get enough of him
.but he has look lost, slow and over matched in exponentially more ABs this season than ever before.
@5: yes, chipper is done.
hes so done that he ranks 7th in the league in OBP.
hes so done that he has 13 HR’s this year, more than every brave but mcclouth.
hes so done that he won the batting title last year.
hes so done that his .893 OPS only bests other past-their-prime players like david wright, carlos lee, ryan howard, and hunter pence
hes so done that his 30.0 VORP leads the team and is better than adrian gonzalez, mark teixeira, lance berkman, and adam jones.
i say we release him immmediately.
We lose, oh well…
It’s gonna take a Herculean effort to make this season count, I get that.
Is 16-11 out of the question for August? Probably.
2010 is on the way. Quit looking for trees.
I have hated and feared Matt Kemp since his second day in the bigs. He’s so good it’s scary. I swear, he gives me Utley palpitations.
The results of the current poll are surprising to me.
And don’t me wrong, I hate the Mets. I don’t even wear Braves colors to Shea/Citifield any more because the Braves lose every game I go to and I end up walking the gauntlet and getting yelled at by parolees.
But the Red Sox have to be a close second. With their underdog attitude, their big ugly players, and their bigger, uglier fans who crawl out of their chowder domes and infect every stadium in America. They are the Boston Yankees.
If Chipper is done, then 80% of the league may as well retire.
AAR, I kept hoping the Braves would trade Frenchy for Kemp when Frenchy was still ok…
I hate the Marlins. I just hate them. I hate the Mets too, but they suck so bad nowadays that it’s not even worthwhile to hate them anymore. Once they become good again, I will hate the Mets more than the Marlins.
I hate the Mets but we’re like the big brother there. They are not a threat.
The Phillies though…I really hate the Phillies. Kruk/Daulton/Mitch Williams make me nauseous and to me they represent the biggest hurdle in the post streak era.
Maybe Kenshin can keep the ball in Petco.
“Hernandez makes Andres Thomas look like Cal Ripken Jr.”
Is that possible? I watched Thomas played back in 1990 and I still remember how horrible he was. I think the two are pretty damn close…
Andres Thomas hit some homers.
This loss calls for a Jim Mora rant!
The team was on a roll then Prado and Escobar got injured and Kotchman was traded and now they look out of sync. There’s still lots of time left but when you lose 4 out of 6 to Florida and Los Angeles it’s hard to deceive yourself into believing you’re a credible playoff contender.
Jurrjens looked awful. He couldn’t locate anything. And not just “bad day” awful, he was extremely lucky to only surrender 4 runs.
The use of the “K-Zone” is worth listening to the three buffoons ESPN trots out there (almost).
Clearly showed that all of our pitchers were throwing batting practice and the Dodger pitchers were hitting their spots.
Poor performance all around.
And, though it goes against everything I regard as holy, I must say it:
Joe Morgan is right about “the list”.
I thought K-Zone showed me that Braves hitters were too aggressive. They swung early in the count at bad pitches when Billingsley was in there.
The hook Billingsly was throwing last night would make anyone look bad. He was dealing. I thought if I heard Morgan say power curve one more time I was gonna go kick my dog.
Stick a fork in the Braves; they are done. Not mathematically, but five games behind two teams, neither of which they play again and two behind the Marlins, who have cleaned up on the Braves. No, I don’t think they should “throw in the towel” but the team really showed what tehy are made of this week. The Braves spend too much time talking about what a good team they are and whining about the umpires. Maybe if they did less talking and more playing, they would be better off.
Yeah, its gonna be a challenge to end the playoff drought this season. However I am glad that Wren et al resisted the tempatation to trade for a rental bat or a middle reliever. I am still confused by the Kotchman/LaRoche trade since I am in the minority and think that Kotch is a better player. But what the hell. Lets play the season and see what unfolds.
Wow, Chipper done? Wow! Brian McCann didn’t hit 8 home runs tonight, he sucks.
I have noticed that Braves fans have evolved like this:
70’s- Hank Aaron is going to break the record, yay!
Early 80’s- Hey, this is a good team! Let’s watch them. God Bless Dale Murphy!
The rest of the 80’s- Go Falcons…and take the Braves with you!
Early 90’s- I don’t understand this baseball game, but I do know that the Dodgers f-in suck! Tomahawk chop!
The rest of the 90’s- Well, we went to a playoff game last year. Let’s stay at home.
Early 2000’s- We paid $2200 for these seats and they can’t even bring us prime rib, nonsense!
Now- Chipper sucks! Bobby Cox is retarded! Turner Field blows! I can’t stand the fact we are 4.5 games out of a playoff spot! This team should be 162-0! Someone should call Ted Turner and let him know! Why didn’t we trade Kelly Johnson and Frenchy for Albert Puljos?
You know it’s true.
Anyone else concerned by how bad Chipper looks at the plate?
C’mon Smitty,
The team has been basically a .500 or worse team for four years. Sure, the fans are spoiled but just because the team isn’t as bad as the 80s doesn’t mean we can’t expect more than what we have seen the last four years. The fact that they aren’t completely out of the running is sort of faint praise considering the teams ahead of them aren’t exactly the 1927 Yankees.
Personally, I wouldn’t even mind the mediocrity so much if the team wasn’t constantly bullshitting about how good they are. I understand they can’t say “we suck” but they seem to think the only reason they are losing is injuries and the umpires. The team just isn’t very good. Maybe they will be in 2010 or 2011 but they aren’t now.
The game last night really exposed just how much better the Dodgers are than the Braves, especially when Escobar is out. I agree with the comment above that Wren has done the right thing by not giving away the farm for a short-term fix, but don’t pretend that this is a good team as presently constituted. It’s an ok team.
does Chipper look any worse than any of our other hitters? Mac went 0-5 in the series with 3 K’s. Billingsley looked like he overmatched everyone
Chipper isnt going to hit .340 forever, outside of June he’s posted a .900+ OPS every month this season. He’s not done yet
The fact that Jason Schmidt had a pinch base hit and run scored last night just shows how you how worthless Norton is.
I don’t get the Chipper bashing. If what you are saying is that he is not fielding that well, I buy that. if you are saying it is unlikely he will ever do 1999 or 2008 again, I agree.
He just went through a hot streak about 2 weeks prior to this weekend. He is still way above average offensively for a 3rd baseman.
Get on a complaint that is sane.
I have a hunch Chipper is yet another Brave who is trying to play through an injury. It’s the only thing that makes sense for why he is suddenly having trouble making contact the last month and a half or so.
What about sucking it up by putting Prado at SS and Kj at 2nd for a night (if Esco isn’t ready to go)? It isn’t that much of a defensive drop off and actually adds about 200 ops points (even with mediocre KJ) to the lineup.
A shout out to any or our lurkers that have “inside sources”:
Did the Braves ever get in on Nick Johnson? If not, was there a reason?
That is still a “head scratcher”.
Marc,
Why would they say they are not a good team? What would you have them say? They have to sell tickets. They aren’t a terrible team, as some think they are, but they are not as good as Philly or LA, but no one in the NL is.
However, I think we are in the same group as Florida, Chicago, St. Louis, San Fran, Colorado and New York (when healthy).
While we have played well against the Phillies, they are better than we are. The Marlins have streaks where they are really good or terrible. Right now, they are hot.
When compared to every team in baseball, this is a very mediocre team, but as far as the NL goes, this is a solid team. We are in a playoff race and have a reasonable shot at winning the wild card.
Have we played poor at times? Yes. But we have also had some really good streaks in us.
We had two or three holes in our lineup and Wren made moves to at least patch them with out giving up the future. He addressed the need for starting pitching in the winter.
This ball club does frustrate me at times, but of the last three years teams, this has been the most enjoyable to watch. What else do you all want from them? I think they have played at the level we all thought they would.
@33,
Cliff,
I’m not an insider but I think it probably had something to do with the fact that Nick Johnson has only six home runs. Wren wanted more power. He didn’t want another gap hitter even though Johnson is much better than Kotchman.
Chipper is still a very good player (and I wouldn’t be surprised if he has an injury)but he isn’t the dominant force that he was. His power has been declining over the years, in part probably due to the injuries. The problem is, on a team that has been so lacking in offense, any fall off by Chipper is really noticeable.
Smitty,
There is nothing at all wrong with the Braves other than they are a .500 team. They are five games behind the Giants and Rockies, neither of whom are great teams. I think that sort of speaks for itself. I’m not saying Wren didn’t do all he could–I think he did a very good job under the circumstances. But they are what they are. Since the first week of the season, they are two games under .500. Maybe you consider that a good team, but I don’t. If your point is that people shouldn’t complain, that’s a bit naive. If this was the Rays, one of the best teams in baseball but stuck behind the Yankees and Red Sox, that would be one thing. But the Braves are struggling to be an over .500 team in the NL.
As for what they say, obviously they have to maintain the view that they are a good team. My point is that they make gratuitous comments that they are never able to fulfill. I follow the Bill Parcells principle that you are what your record says you are. Until you actually win, shut the hell up.
Im thinking they traded Kotchman thinking they could find another player in FA for about the same cost as Kotchman for next season. Nick Johnson comes to mind, but I dont what type of deal he may get this offseason
The Braves are a .500 team with a little potential to be better.
Wren has the organization moving in the proper direction and adding one OF next year could move us into legit WC contention.
Keeping up with the Phillies might prove difficult because they seem willing to spend some big bucks and the Mets will keep writing checks, hopefully to the Madoffs.
Overall if we end up with a winning record i will be happy, but I really want meaningful baseball till the last day of the season, then this year will be a success.
Marc, sure the proof is in the pudding and outside of the month of July we haven’t put it all together with hitting and pitching going well at the same time. But I think its legit for the Braves, Chipper, Wren, Cox et al to say they like their chances. Yeah it sucks that we just got beaten by the team with the best record in baseball and lost a series to the dang Florida Marlins but while we aren’t an excellent team I think we are a good one. We finally have a league average outfield and our starting infield is way above average offensively and we have very good starting and back end pitching. A lot to like. I’m not too confident that we make post season this year but heck we should be able to at least make it interesting the remainder of the season.
For whomever was really pining for Josh Willingham earlier this season, you were right. The guy is putting on a good old fashion salary drive this year.
I think the current Braves team is much better than the one which started the season. Had this current team been together the whole season it probably wins the Wild Card. Unfortunately, Francoeur, Schafer, and KJ sucked up too many outs and put us in a hole that I’m not sure we’re strong enough to climb out of.
@40:
I think you nail it there. This is a pretty decent team right now. Once Infante replaces Hernandez, it’ll be better.
The problem is, the games we lost with Francoeur and Schafer out there count too.
I think its time to move on from the bobby cox era. Its about time the braves move on.
I’m undecided about whether it would be a good thing for Bobby Cox to go. For one thing, I don’t think that he’s made that much of a difference one way or another over the past few years. The teams just haven’t been good enough. After 15 years, the Braves were overdue for a down period.
The problem with replacing Bobby is that there’s a better than even chance that you end up with someone worse. As much as his bunting and burning through relievers drives me nuts, I’m not convinced it costs that much overall. And the lack of drama probably makes up for whatever it costs.
We’re doomed! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well if not making the playoffs is doomed than u said it fred
Doomed? Only if Bobby decides to platoon Norton with LaRoche.
I like the direction the team is headed. I doubt we’ll be watching the Braves in the playoffs this season, but next season looks like a definite possibility.
I’d love it if we had a replacement for Chipper somewhere in the system, but you can’t have everything. Maybe we can sign Andy Marte as a minor league free agent this offseason…
44,
Seriously, it’s ridiculous. We lost 2 out of 3 to the best team in baseball with our second-string, and everyone runs for the hills.
Mac,
Any new source for the doom, or just the same ones?
On Nick Johnson (it will be hard or me to let this one go). The Marlins did not get him for no salary. They still have to pay pro-rated major league minimum.
But why did the Nats move him? To let somebody else (Dunn?) try first? If they were going to pay Johnson anyway and if they weren’t going to trade Dunn or Willingham (and, to me, the Nats should have kept Willingham with his two arb years) then why did they need to trade Johnson?
Until somebody proves otherwise, I will stick to the theory “Kasten sticking it to Atlanta (for some or whatever reason).” No other theory supports this sufficiently.
I mean, Bobby was SICK OF LaRoche. So, unless Bobby was saying “Damn, Kotchman is even worse than LaRoche” I don’t see it coming from there.
It wasn’t money. They traded at even salary with no forward commitments beyond this year on either player.
If it is to offer arb to LaRoche to risk paying him a lot to make sure first is covered for one more year to wiat on Freeman, then why not offer arb to the cheaper Kotchman (who had nearly equaled LaRoche’s performance this year anyway).
Joe Posnanski can sometimes sum up my thoughts on something in a way that renders me wishing I were talented enough to do so. From a recent blog of his:
Cliff, you obviously have not been following along. LaRoche is a second half Bonds, and Kotchman is a book-reading Angel-centric cancer. This is simply a move that HAD to be made. Also it didn’t cost anything so Nick Johnson or any other better players we could have traded for do not count. The End.
Thanks spike for the analysis from somewhere (which is about what I had gotten from my reading of the tea leaves).
Sometimes reactions here after a loss are borderline comical. This single loss proves that we are totally incapable of making the playoffs! That single win that we just got the other day? Proves nothing, of course. And oh yes, I almost forgot. There is no in-between with Chipper. Either he’s one of the best hitters in baseball or he’s done. There will be no slow decline or gray area. He’s finished. Take him out back and shoot him!
If you look, it’s the same two or three posters with the over-the-top defeatist attitude every single time. It’s hardly a community-wide thing.
Nick you’re right, as is Stu.
The defeatist attitude has really gotten stale. It is really to the point where if we won 10 in a row, someone would complain about how we should have scored 1 more run or how Bobby should have pinch hit with someone different.
I would say that 75% of the stuff posted here is good, sometimes even the negative stuff is right on mark and is warranted. But as someone who has been ready, posting and really enjoying this site for five years, I have really been blown away over the past few months.
But today when I saw ‘Chipper is done’ I was strait up shocked.
My concern with Chipper is not this year. People are talking contending for 2010, the question is how will Chipper hold up in 2010.
Back to this year. I am tempted to say the Braves have a chance to right the ship in San Diego, but I’m hesistant b/c the Braves never play well in San Diego and the Padres have a dominant closer.
Wow, just looked at the AccuScore updates for the week… Sure the format will bork here on cut and paste, but…
NATIONAL LEAGUE WEEK 17 REVIEW PLAYOFF % CHANCE
TEAM 27–Jul 3–Aug % DIFF WIN DIV
Atlanta Braves 28.1% 8.5% –19.6% 7.0%
We went from 28% chance in the playoffs to 8.5% in one week by going 2-4.
And of course I’m still a Russian spammer in the system apparently. I wonder if I post about borscht and Vodka if it will make me more likely to get spam-blocked or less… hmmm.
I have tickets to the Sawx/Yanks game Thursday night & today I notice the mound matchup: Joba vs Smoltz.
I’m not exactly sure how I’m supposed to feel.
@52 53 54 – but you have to admit some of it is funny shit. Unintentianally funny but funny none the less.
Hopefully we’ll see Yunel back on the field tonight.
edit: Anyone read the Bradley piece in AJC this morning?
The Braves didn’t get into San Diego until 5:30 AM EDT this morning, which is 2:30 AM PST. Jet lag.
Falcons signed Jamie Winborn. Has he still got it?
#57
Bradley & Smoltz never got along, but I don’t recall that Bradley ever revealed as much until Smoltz left & began badmouthing the organization.
For me, I’m always going to appreciate what Smoltz did for the organization & I’ll probably forget the current situation eventually. But I must admit that it doesn’t break my heart to watch him struggle after hearing him bitch.
If he’d left gracefully, I’d probably be rooting for him to win every game he pitched. Right now, I kinda don’t like him.
Still, I’ll be a little torn watching him again, especially in The Bronx.
@55:
The Braves are 6-3 in their last nine meetings at PETCO.
#62 Yeah I echo those thoughts. Smoltz will always be an all time Brave in my heart but I ain’t heart broken over his latest struggles.
Bradley must have been relieved that Smoltz went out of his way to undo 20 years of high standing with the Braves organization and the Atlanta community.
Personally I would have a hard time rooting for either the Yankees or the Red Sox.
Need to sweep the Padres and split with the Dodgers. A six-and-two stretch would be huge.
Johnny,
My standard quote for attending Sawx/Yanks games: “I’m the only person in the park who really doesn’t care who wins. I just hope no beer gets spilt on me.”
need to win tonight and worry about tomorrow later
“I’m the only person in the park who really doesn’t care who wins.”
So A-Rod’s sitting this one out?
I just figured out that Big Jim Presley is the “hitting” coach of the Marlins. Nick Johnson isn’t going to get along with that guy at all.
Skip died one year ago. The guy who could make you laugh when the Braves were trailing 10-0 in the 1st against the mets.
We should bomb all the broadcast teams we know, and the Braves one first and foremost, asking anouncers to explain the infield fly rule, as a tribute to Skip.
#68 -LOL!
Edinson Volquez is the latest TJ surgery recipient. Why did the Reds trade for Rolen?
Brilliant line from DOB:
“His replacement is rookie Diory Hernandez, a pleasant enough young fella who has never hijacked a train or anything like that that I’m aware of, but is just not anywhere close to the player Escobar is.”
b/c they were dumb enough to hire Baker as manager
@70: yeah, we could use some skip this year. maybe that explains the surge of negativity…
62,
Looking forward to the game, ububba. It will be my first game at the new Yankee stadium.
And probably the last time you cough up $11 for an imported beer.
76,
Eesh. For financial and health reasons, I think I’ll stay away from $11 beers. Trying to lose about ten pounds. Indulged in a lot of delicious, delicious beers this summer.
There’s always Bud Lite & Miller Lite. Those are only $6.50.
Think Bobby Cox is hard on pitchers? Mark Prior and Kerry Wood should sue Dusty Baker
Game thread time.