“Hey, guys, it’s John. I think that the Red Sox relievers hate me.”
About The Author
I think I should mention that Jeff Francoeur is a horrible, horrible player game thread: Aug. 10, Braves at DBacks
August 10, 2008
Larry McWilliams vs. Marty Clary. Also, SEC Picks. Also, game thread: Nats at Braves
October 1, 2009
I know what will cheer me up game thread: Sept. 2, Braves at Marlins
September 2, 2008
- Td on Braves look to bounce back on Striderday
- Our New Insect Overlords on Braves look to bounce back on Striderday
- krussell on Braves look to bounce back on Striderday
- Christian Roberts on Braves look to bounce back on Striderday
- Braves14 on Braves look to bounce back on Striderday
Bisher quote link: http://tinyurl.com/mrp9mg
“Frank Wren, of course, handled the deal, but it had to be approved by Cox.”
Mac, whatever happened to the old Road From Bristol stuff?
It got erased for the most part when I moved the site. It’s still backed up somewhere, but that was a couple of computers ago.
That column is a fractured mess of wharrgarrbl, even by Bish’s “standards”.
“Neither do I understand just why a hitting slump can’t be cured like the common cold.”
“What if he had come back to the Braves hitting .300 with a generous sprinkling of home runs? Would he ever have been traded?”
“That’s why they are scouts and they don’t play,” Francoeur said.
Oh my sweet lord. Denial really isn’t just a river in Africa. Well, Jeff, it’s true, they don’t put scouts on the scoreboard, so there is always that.
If Jeffy ever heard a scout talking about on-base percentage, I do believe he would murder him right in the face.
Luckily for Jeff, scouts think on-base percentage is just as stupid as he does.
That entire quote is just hilarious. As if two days’ worth of at-bats is enough to wash away two years worth of horrible pitch recognition. And as if hitting the ball hard a couple times has anything to do with ball-strike recognition.
I was watching the game last night via the Mets’ channel. I really like Ron Darling and Keith Hernandez’ ability to analyze the game. They have been really impressed with McCann’s swing. Talking about Francine, Hernandez was saying that the problem wasn’t really pitch recognition, it was his long swing. With the unspoken implication being that he’s just not fixable if he doesn’t fundamentally fix his swing.
Did the Braves announcers ever in 3 years ever even mention that Francine had a fundamental problem to fix. My impression from them was that he was just in a slump for the last 2 yrs, that he needed to “get out of” somehow.
“Did the Braves announcers ever in 3 years ever even mention that Francine had a fundamental problem to fix.”
No. I find our guys really weak on analysis, without any modern baseball smarts. Lemke loves to talk about productive outs, because when you hit .240, that is about all you contribute on offense.
Joe, of course, will only talk about hitting to the opposite field.
I think Jon knows better, but he defers to Joe.
According to Joe and Chip, if the ball ends up in the off-field, it was done purposely and was a product of great skill. Funny, when I hit the ball weakly to to right in batting practice, my little league coach would say, “you’re swinging late.”
There is some skill involved in hitting the ball well to the opposite field. Carew, Gwynn & Boggs made careers out of it.
But when a guy like Francoeur decided to do it, he was basically admitting that he wasn’t going to be hitting HRs. And if he doesn’t hit some HRs, what good is he?
BTW, speaking of announcers, it was a pleasure watching the Dodger game & listening to Vin Scully at the same time. The man is old & he still sounds amazing, his timing perfect.
I was working on another Francoeur song but I’m stuck. Anyone want to finish? To the tune of the “Facts of Life” theme:
He takes the good
Swings at the bad
Pops up to short
And there you have
The Facts of Jeff!
Oh, it definitely is a skill, but I don’t think players purposely hit the ball to right field as often as Joe claims.
Just got back with my dad from the clubhouse at our favorite golf course in Kansas City. We just played nine today so we could make sure we could watch the Open. We weren’t the only ones.
It’s pretty special what Tom Watson is doing. He’s really a big deal in KC, and as much as fans in this city have been beaten down over the recent years, its almost like they’re aching to believe, but can’t quite pull the trigger. I’m really pulling for him; tomorrow should be fun
Our Bete Noir remains New York Met right fielder Jeff Francoeur. Wow the ‘New York Met’ part sounds soooooooo damn sweet!
So he has a long swing and can’t recognize pitches. In other words he sucks. In a way it is a testament to what an athlete the kid is that he has had a couple of ok years. Think of the last Braves athletic type outfielder. George Lombard never did anything close to what the Groundhog has in MLB.
Any of you old timers remember when guys like Carew, Boggs and Gwynn were called ‘bat control artists’? Always lauded because apparently they hit the ball exactly where they wanted it to go 90% of the time. I guess in reality they had mastered the inside out swing and sprayed the ball all over hell’s half acre with a lot of opposite field hits.
I’m such an old-timer. (sniff)
If hitting to right field helped Jeff get on base and hit for power, then he’d still be a Brave. He only hit to right field because that was all he could do to make contact.
His average sucks
He doesn’t slug
And so you’re screwed
The facts of Jeff
The facts of Jeff
Again, I said this last year. He will never get better if he doesn’t fix that long swing. He should look at what Chase Utley does – very short, compact swing. If he were to do that, he’d be a very good ballplayer. But as everyone can see from #4, the kid just doesn’t get it. I truly don’t think he believes he is a bad ballplayer. Step 1 to recovery is Acceptance, buddy.
if those guys hit the ball where they wanted it to go 90%of the time, why didnt they hit .900?
Sorry, can’t stop now
He thinks he’s good
He’s really not
There’s lots of skills
He hasn’t got
The facts of Jeff
The facts of Jeff
Ahaha, Don is starting to cut loose: “See, Jeff thinks like a pitcher. He gets strike one and then he wants to expand the zone.”
The Legend of Martin Prado continues. He’s somewhere between the biographical ballad phase and the candy bar phase.
Prado can’t be THIS good, can he?
We are waaaaaay too lefthanded out there today, but I don’t see many other options. Should Prado be playing first and Conrad second? Heck of a defensive hit.
@27 – I was thinking the same thing, but I would have gone with Prado and 1st and Conrad at 2nd. At least that was what i was hoping to see.
Has Francoeur ever hit a HR to RF?
Alex Cora, Ozzie Smith… Basically the same, right?
We really need to have Canizares up to platoon with Kotchman. I don’t know the Braves would make room though other than releasing Norton.
It will help some when Infante gets back.
This Mets lineup may be worse than anything we’ve run out there this season.
Maybe Barbaro Caniza– naaahhhh, that would never happen.
Jeffy has hit 78 career homers. Of these homers, eight were hit to center, one to right-center, and three to right.
Norton has no business on this roster. Bring up Canizares.
Speaking of Infante, has anyone heard anything about his return?
#36, from Yahoo! sports: “Omar Infante (broken left hand) has been cleared to begin swinging a bat, hitting off a tee in the indoor cage. Manager Bobby Cox estimates he is two weeks away from a minor-league rehab assignment, which Cox thinks should last five or six games.”
Ok, thanks. Surprised Peanut hasn’t said anything about it, considering how much he wrote about how much the Braves miss him.
Not sure if I have this straight or not, but for a younger player, namely one just starting to get regular playing time, don’t doubles start to turn into homeruns?
I ask that because Prado just hit his 21st double earlier, against 5 homeruns. Those 21 doubles have come in less at bats than the average starter in MLB has gotten to this point in the season. Will Prado’s doubles start to turn into homeruns? Not sure if there is a sabermetric calculator for that kind of thing or not.
Either way, I’ll take the doubles.
Speak of the devil…..great stab there by The Prado. Wow.
Martin Prado: great second baseman, or greatest second baseman?
Jeff Francoeur Career Home Runs – Baseball-Reference.com.
I’m disappointed they didn’t slot Francoeur at cleanup…
Martin Prado > Joe Morgan.
Martin Gehrig and Kelly Pipp.
Martin Evans, Brian Johnson and Chipper Aaron.
Hey, I blinked and missed Francoeur’s at-bat, what happened?
The answer to that trivia question is #31.
He went back into the visitor’s dugout.
Pagan’s 2-2. Walk him?
How is it “fortunate” that Kawakami didn’t pop up that (2-0 pitch out of the strike zone)?
If Wright was injured I’m afraid I may have actually felt sorry for the Mets.
The Mets have become one of those teams that i’ll pick up a free agent to spot start against in fantasy baseball. The Mets are the new-and-improved Padres!
Do you think Jeffy now knows what the Braves really think about him?
Ordinarily, I don’t like intentional walks. But I make an exception for intentional walks in front of Frenchy.
Infield single for francoeur??!!? wtf how is it possible with a runner at 2nd and 3rd to not get anyone out? For the people that are watching can someone please explain what happened
Well, that’s why I don’t like IBB.
I f’ing HATE walks.
two gdmf runs with just one ball past the infield. Why not just forfeit and save the embarrasment.
Jon K: It bounced at the plate and stayed in the air until he reached first.
Somebody want to explain how French didn’t make an out with a force at all 3 bases?
Nevermind – thanks Daniel
BS… I hate Francoeur
His hits suck as much as his outs.
The ole “walk-the-pitcher-and-let-him-pull-a-hammy-while-running” scheme. Touche, Kawakami, touche.
Jeff is stupid. He equates a hard-hit ball with a “good” at-bat. Dumbass.
McLouth is due!
Ugh, wish we’d gotten a run in there. McLouth has looked helpless against Santana.
How the hell do you use your only remaining useful pinch-hitter to run?
Sonuvabitch. That sucked.
because we WASTE players
We’ve had a few chances today, but McLouth is doing his Francoeur LOB impression today.
Still, Santana is an ace. Some days you just gotta tip your cap. I can also smell a K-Rod meltdown coming on in this game.
pinch runners at 1st with the bases loaded. Im guessing Bobby wanted to see if he could catch the guy in front of him
Time for Moylan to do his thing. Just what the Mets need.
Thank God for Frenchy
hey a player with 10 hr’s on our team!! YAY!!
Effing Fox. I hate not being able to watch the games.
do not bunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…..
Yeah, that was smart.
Thank god we ran for McCann
Yunel missed the sign, Bobby is pissed….but the ball was a foot off the plate
What exactly was Yunel supposed to do there? The pitch was impossible to hit, he should waste a strike to no effect?
Looks like Yunel botched a hit and run.
This is what happens when you play “small ball.” I know it’s late and close and the marginal value of one run is huge, but, man, small ball still feels bad.
why call a hit and run with someone who hasnt come close to throwing a strike either
He can either waste a strike, or his teammate’s a dead duck.
Well, he should foul it off if he knows the runner is going.
I don’t think he could have fouled it off. His only chance would have been to get hit with the ball, to be honest. That’s Bobby fault for a stupid call.
Right on, csg. I don’t get that, either.
Yeah, I’m not sure how I feel about Bobby’s call, but Yunel screwed Diory by taking that pitch.
You have to swing there to try and foul it off or impact the catcher’s throw. In the broader sense, i’m not sure why bunting or a hit and run were even being considered there. I think Bobby and Yunel should both have to run laps after the game.
Weldon, he can’t foul it off if you can’t touch it.
I don’t get to watch many games, and now I’m grateful. That was one of the worst calls I have ever seen Bobby make, and that is saying A LOT.
Hey, that’s an idea — let’s blame Snitker!
It was a bad call….Yunel gets alot of crap, but he doesnt deserve crap for that, thats not his fault, he couldnt have touched that ball
Stuff like this is why hit and runs should never be called with fewer than 3 balls. What if someone’s stealing signs? All the pitcher has to do is what this pitcher just did, and the player is toast whether the batter swings or not. A sharp catcher sees the same signs the batter does and can call for the ball outside the strike zone even with no institutionalized sign stealing. It’s just too risky.
I think it was clear that Escobar got the sign, he wanted to swing but knew he wouldn’t be able to hit the ball. That was Cox’s fault for calling a H&R after the pitcher couldn’t find the strike zone, you don’t do that up in the count 2-0. I just hope Cox doesn’t bench Escobar again and leave us with Diory in there to put up his usual 0-4.
I know it was in off the plate, but he probably could have gotten a bat on it. Worst case scenario is he puts the ball in play and we get a runner on second. Or he fouls it off and we have a 2-1 count. Or he at least swings, affects the catcher, and hopefully doesn’t leave Diory totally out to dry.
May not have been a smart managing decision, but Yunel needed to pick up his teammate there.
Please be injured!!! Barbaro!!!
Get Barbaro on the phone.
Be a hero Church…….Norton?
I’m a little surprised Yunel didn’t take off there.
Now’s when we reap the benefits of the trade. Count it.
Might have had a run there if we hadn’t pissed away a baserunner trying to steal.
Frenchy would totally have swung at three of those. Great trade.
Norton? That does it, Bobby’s cracked, get him out of there before he wets himself. You have to bring Ross into the game anyway, this way he empties the bench.
Was Yunel scared of (1) Francoeur or (2) furthering the Cox-rage?
We should leave Moylan in to hit…
You better hit the damn ball, Norton.
If Norton swings at the first pitch, I will hurt someone…
You don’t play smallball against a wild bullpen prone to conceding the big inning. That’s what still irks me about the hit-and-run call. Yunel will be in the doghouse, but it should be his boss admitting the mistake.
I’d bring in Rodriguez
EDIT: You’re right Mac. Indefensible.
And now to Mac’s point – wouldn’t you want to see Conrad bat here???
It was a hit & run, Escobar didn’t swing at a pitch that was up & in & Hernandez was a dead duck.
Cox should be on this Flomax commercial instead of on the bench managing.
Why is he bringing in Norton and not Ross? Didn’t we already pinch run for McCann?
edit: Ok, he didn’t want Kotchman running. Or had to get him out of the game. Fair enough.
Wow, Mac, you are a big Bobby fan…for you to say this…
Oh, we needed Ross to run for Kotchman! Of course!
Ross isn’t pinch hitting because Bobby just brought him in as a Pinch Runner.
I wouldn’t necessarily call a hit and run playing small ball. Small ball is more like getting outs to move runners up (i.e. ball to right side with runner at second, bunt). But that’s just my take on it. With a hit and run, you open up a hole on the infield, and your job is just to put the ball in play.
Kotchman might really be hurting. He fouled that ball right off the top of his knee.
F**K YOU NORTON!!! THAT WAS RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE!!!
Why is Norton in professional baseball again?
Geez Norton…missed 2 belt high fastballs? what good are you?
Bobby Cox, you are a moron.
Greg Norton? Are you kidding me?
What a terribly mismanaged 8th inning. I love Bobby, I never beat him up, this game has been mismanaged, Norton is terrible, now he has to play first?
Norton needs to go
I’ve known DOS-based computer programs that could manage better than this.
That inning was brought to you by the genius of Bobby Cox, one of the worst in game managers in the history of baseball.
Bobby must be thinking it’s 2008.
I assume Prado will play first and Diory will play second.
Norton can’t be blamed. He’s not good enough to be in the majors. Bobby Cox is finished. So too am I, potentially.
Ububba–I caught that it was a blown hit and run but I still don’t like the call–outs in the 8th are too precious to risk with K-Rod lurking in the 9th
I’d rather have half-assed undermanaging than half-assed overmanaging any day.
Greg Norton is a better hitter vs RHP than Ross. Bobby made the right call.
run for Anderson with the bases loaded, waste Conrad
bring in Diory to run for McCann
call for a hit and run with a pitcher that hasnt thrown a strike
bring in Ross to run for Kotchman
then use Norton for whatever reason
A1 Your right, Norton should not be on the roster. He is terrible, not a pro hitter. Bobby lost the bench early, and left us with nothing.
This is frustrating
Norton is 2-33 against righthanders this year!
Now the pitcher’s spot is due up 4th next inning instead of McCann.
140 Ha, I could do that, and take the major league minimum to do so, at least I would work hard….
On the bright side, at least we got Moylan some much needed work
141 and there is no one to hit, so your going to have Manny Acosta hitting!
Bobby Cox is a complete tardleton.
I wasn’t crazy about the result either, but if they score another run there you probably don’t see K-Rod.
A lost gamble for sure.
Again, I don’t see the big deal on the hit and run. So the pitcher hasn’t thrown a strike yet. Seems to me he’d be aiming to throw a strike to the next batter. Gambled and it didn’t work. Doesn’t mean it was a bad call, people.
Now pinch running with Conrad – THAT was a bad call. Very bad.
Good call, Mac. I just glanced at the career splits and gave Bobby the benefit of the doubt.
This game is suddenly not very fun.
add using Manny Acosta to the list
Perfect. Is Jerry Manual a better manager than Bobby?
Someone said it earlier this week, gotta win 3 or lose 3 to find a direction, it would be fiting to split this series 2-2, and leave us scratching our heads.
Today is slipping away,w e had chances
149 — Not too angry about that, not any other options really
Nice work here Manny…need any help with the gas cans?
Bobby is going to bend Yunel over his knee and spank his ass.
@149 – you can’t be serious, right?
After all the complaining you guys do about him using our top 3 relievers, you are going to complain that he didn’t bring one in? Seriously???
I’m still in shock.
Gambled and it didn’t work. Doesn’t mean it was a bad call, people.
This is strictly a results-based board. With K-Rod lurking, Bobby fired every bullet he had. Didn’t work. Now Acosta is sending everyone home early.
Acosta needs head back down to AAA.
Atrosta is up to his tricks again.
I’ll agree that pretty much none of the moves in the 8th made any sense. Building Norton’s confidence or getting him AB’s should be another team’s problem at this point.
@158 – and who do we replace him with? What options do we have. If ya’ll want any reason in the world as to why Bobby always throws his top relievers out there, this is it. We don’t have any other options.
bad feeling here–about time for the blind squirrel to find a nut
@157 I wouldn’t completely agree with that. I do like the fact that Bobby was trying to be aggressive. But I would hope Bobby will put the hit-and-run on a 2-1 count instead of a 2-0 count.
It would be worth the cost if Acosta would have the Mets bat around three times while obtaining the three outs by striking out Jeff Francoeur three times to end the inning.
Okay, that’s grounds for release.
@162 – why is that? Wouldn’t you think you are probably more likely to get a strike on a 2-0 count than a 2-1?
release for a seeing eye grounder is a bit harsh–allowing a homer to captain turkey drawers would be grounds for immediate release
After what he did in the Colorado blow out we lost and this outing I would say replace him with just about anyone. I do agree with you that this is a big part of why Bobby over uses the top 3 in the bullpen.
I do agree with you that this is a big part of why Bobby over uses the top 3 in the bullpen.
Yup. Good example today of just how shallow the bench and bullpen are. Bobby doesn’t have much to work with.
So, after the game do you think Jeffy’s going to stress his “hits” or how hard he hit the ball?
Nate has been ice cold since the break…
All of the three games that encompasses?
I tuned in late–any Gonzo news today?
OMG – fire Manuel, he brought in K-Rod with his team up 4. And Bobby was stupid enough to bring in Soriano being up by 2.
That is sarcasm, in case you’re wondering.
Cox should be fired Joshua… don’t get ahead of yourself with your lame sarcasm
Recrap is up.