It seems like we’re always playing these guys. Also, two-game series are stupid.
It seems like we’re always playing these guys. Also, two-game series are stupid.
You’re not alone, Mac. Skip referred to the Nats as the Braves’ “designated opponents” for the year.
I made a joke about Kenny Lofton in the last thread, but it’s probably not worth cutting-and-pasting it just to get a rise out of Alex R.
Link
I will post a similar picture tonight with Turner Field as the backdrop for another time I see a 6th-straight win.
AAR……….yes, they rewarded Lofton with a chunk of stone mountain and gave it to him to put on that ten pound gold chain he always wore ………..thats probably why he never looked fast in a braves uni
Well… I typed up a long rambling thing while Mac was posting this thread… so I will cut and paste it here (because it would be nice if somebody read it… and it’s a while till the game starts).
The quote from ESPN at the time says:
“Jones had $22 million in guaranteed money remaining in a $90 million, six-year contract that began in 2001. He was due to make $17 million next season, and Atlanta had team options for 2007 and 2008 at $15 million annually. The options, which carried a single $5 million buyout, would have become guaranteed if he had 450 plate appearances in the previous season or was an All-Star.
Under the new deal, he gets a $4 million signing bonus in January and $11 million in each of the next three seasons. The contract contains a 2009 team option at $8 million that would become guaranteed if he has 450 plate appearances the previous year and escalators that could raise his 2009 salary to $11 million.â€
So he went from $17|15|15 in 06-08 (he hit the 450 PAs, he even did that in 05 in 109 games), to $15|11|11|11 in 06-09. Basically giving the team 4years for the price of 3 in exchange for a little more guarantee. I’m sure he weighed in his mind the possibility of injury, but I think the bigger factor was that it would give the team (of which he was a part) a better chance to structure and win another ring.
Wacky contract idea of the day:
I’d love to see somebody like Smoltz (close to retirement but still effective) negotiate a contract that says something like I get $12M this year, and $6M is going to charity, but if we win the WS I’ll forfeit my $6M and you only have to pay the charity money. Basically giving ownership an incentive to put together a better team, win it all, and save money.
Of course I’d likewise love to see a group of players re-negotiate a moderate baseline payscale with steep bonuses for performance and winning, or some share of the team profits. Basically giving the players an immediate and direct incentive to perform better (to hopefully get the “Contract year†performance year in/year out).
Heck, 25 man roster if each guy takes $1M off his salary (ok, this assumes they make a million over minimum of course) which he could tie to getting back if they win the WS, the team could afford to sign an a-rod. I would think a GM would be smart to structure some deals that way, and players would be smart to take them. Owners would get by cheaper if they’re not winning, and if they do win the added revenue would offset the added salary. Players would still get big bucks, and a shot at even bigger bucks, and because the organization could afford it if the whole team did it, they’d have a better shot at winning.
Of course this may be against the MLBPA and owner agreements, and could almost never be implemented, but it’s an interesting idea I think. If not against agreements I could see a team like the Marlins with a bunch of young near-rookies starting to structure long-term deals for their guys that included that economy into the picture.
Neither the union nor the commissioner’s office would ever approve such a contract.
When in doubt, Van Halen video!
Nothing but great memories with “Dance the Night Away.” In fact, whenver I DJ, I almost always play it. I get looks sometimes, but I give ’em right back.
Re: # 3
Orange & blue—aren’t those Met colors? That’s a rough combo. 😉
AAR,
You could never get a rise out of me.
But considering the way Chipper’s acfted a superstar about his contract compared to 99% of superstar athletes, for someone to come on here and call him “selfish” or “not altruistic” is B.S.
Sorry, Johnny, I cannot remotely accept your side of the debate here. No way. It’s been proven already on here that Chipper’s restructuring helped the Braves. Most athletes wouldn’t do it – he did. End of story.
#7 ububba
You can appreciate this, but orange is never a good idea 🙂
FultonCounty/Wryn,
This is a Braves message board. There are plenty of Auburn boards out there for you to post your “six” garbage. No one cares anymore. Six in a row, and nothing to show for it…I wouldn’t brag so much about it, especially on a BASEBALL message board.
Found my own answer:
Major League Rule 3(b)(5) provides as follows:
“No Major League Uniform Player’s Contract or Minor League Uniform Player Contract shall be approved if it contains a bonus for playing, pitching or batting skill or if it provides for the payment of a bonus contingent on the standing of the signing Club at the end of the championship season.”
Ahh well… typing up that theory gave me something to do on my lunch break.
Is Wryn FCB? How did I miss this?
So, MLB doesn’t have performance incentives? For example, if a player hits 30 HR? That’s dumb. I guess that’s why you always see plate appearance and games played plateaus. Of course, that can also get you released from your time if you start slow. Ask Frank Thomas.
So, make the contract say “Regardless of the standing of the Atlanta Braves at the end of the championship season, if on the morning following the final game of the world series the Atlanta Journal and Constitution prints a front page article which in relevant part discusses an Atlanta based professional sports franchise winning a major professional sports championship, player gets $6,000,000.00”
Also, you can’t get a bonus for playing, pitching or batting skill? That means you can get a bonus for playing skill or pitching skill.
There are individual performance incentives, though they are usually relatively small. Team-based performance incentives are not allowed. Frank Thomas is still getting paid.
Triple post! Sorry…
About the Frank Thomas thing, that was one really shrewd move by Ricciardi. You have four OFs out there with Rios, Wells, Stairs, and Stewart, so you got a DH right there, and Thomas is stinking it up. He only needs like 304 more PAs to get 1000 in the two years, so instead of letting Thomas stink it up for the next half-season, he just cuts bait, getting him off the hook for the 2009 salary, and it gives probably a better player more playing time. Brilliant!
Frank Thomas isn’t getting paid for 2009, is what I meant. Oh, and nevermind about the triple post. Mac saved me. 🙂
Brad,
C’mon now. We can all take a little ribbing, even Bama peeps. I mean, we both have to put up with Tennessee…
I ignored the orange quip, knowing good and well that was a jab to my Gators (and Vols, of course). But hey, that’s why SEC football is so fun…
I haven’t watched the braves at all since they started this streak we seem to be on… so i won’t until they lose 😛
Alex, Yes he helped the Braves but he also helped himself. I never said that the contract re do didn’t help the Braves. Believe me the Braves wouldn’t have even considered a contract re do had it not been in their intrests which I think that I have said already. But sigh never mind.
Charles just to nitpik a little Chipper had 432 pas in 2005.
True. I just don’t know another fan base that celebrates a winning streak like Auburn’s. You’d think they’d be more concerned with the fact that their coach has won the same number of SEC Championships as Mike Dubose (1), not a minor winning streak over a team on probation.
Thomas still getting 9 mil this year.
Read the article about in cnnsi. Riccardi said it wasn’t about the 2009 contract. Ahem ok if you say so JP. 20 games is a really short leash on the guy that led your team in HRs last season.
Call me psychedelic, or call me a jerk, but I actually like Cream’s “Dance the Night Away” better.
CharlesP, that rule has been largely eviscerated over the years, as witnessed most recently by the bonuses Alex Rodriguez will get per his current contract for reaching certain home run plateaus and breaking various records. I’m not a fan of the way the Commissioner’s office has looked the other way on this stuff, but I’m a stuffy purist who holds ridiculous beliefs like thinking that pitchers should hit for themselves.
Brad,
You know the reason—Bama stomped their guts out for years. It’s easy to figure.
I grew up in Columbus, Ga., and in my youth Bama & The Bear whipped them annually, but all you ever heard from Auburn people was “Punt Bama Punt.”
Until Bo arrived, that was the only game I ever remember them winning.
D’oh Johnny… what I get for skimming the stat lines and adding up AB and BB in my head… looked at two different seasons or something.
BTW: The place I found discussion on the incentives thing was in reference to some random starter who has bonuses for games finished (valid), and how if he moves to the pen he could earn more. The other place it came up with the structure of A-Rod’s current contract and they had to make the HR total incentives be marketing based somehow before the MLBPA and League would approve it.
Basically you can’t be incentivised to play well, just to play (PAs, innings pitched, games started, etc). Though Oswalt got his bulldozer because he pitched in a post season game, so I would think you could structure some of the things on getting TO the world series (or playoffs), but not on winning them.
Would there be a way for a team to structure their post season win shares to be higher? or is that determined by baseball? Thinking of a sort of an owner saying “I’ve got an extra $30 million to give to my players if they win the WS.” sort of thing. I know they get WS bonuses and such (since the Rockies gave one to that coach’s widow), but not sure how much they are is determined.
It pretty much was. Coach Bryant was 19-6 against Auburn and won nine in a row from 1973-1981.
And I’m guessing Alabama fans didn’t run around in 1981 holding up nine fingers.
The one unique thing I have always found about the Braves fan base is it’s the ONE way I have seen Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia Tech, Clemson, South Carolina and several other “rival southern fanbases” come together for a U.N. style truce.
Look at the Braves the last few years in terms of either players who played at a certain school or were just a fan of said school: Frenchy (Clemson), McCann (Georgia), Chipper (Florida), Lance Cormier (Bama), Tex (Georgia Tech), Hudson (Auburn).
So yeah, during college football season, we all jab at eachother more (and I am aware of my football allies like ububba) but we can all at least agree on the Braves.
(well, I guess not Johnny and I when it comes to Chipper…)
Brad,
Of course, they didn’t. They expected it. That’s why they’re so crazy now.
AAR,
There’s actually an amazing club remix of Cream’s “Sunshine of Your Love.” Imagine gigantic riffage over Fatboy Slim breakbeats. Pretty hot for those who like to get their groove on.
This just in: Mets down 3-0 in the 5th @ Wrigley.
You know, Chipper would have been barred by the Union from renegotiating his deal in such a way that he wasn’t benefited. So, its kind of unfair to say he wasn’t totally unselfish because the restructuring also benefited him. He had 2 choices:
1) Do not do anything- this neither hurts him nor helps him, and it neither hurts nor helps the Braves.
2) Renegotiate – this has to benefit him or he can’t do it, it does not however have to benefit the Braves. The Braves won’t do it if it doesn’t benefit them, and Chipper won’t do it if it doesn’t benefit him (because he can’t).
I’d say that is an unselfish move, he could have done nothing and helped no one, which would be a very selfish move. Instead, he acted in such a way as to maximize benefit to all. Don’t count it against him that in order to help the Braves he HAD to help himself.
go cubbies
Ububba, that does sound pretty tempting. Know how I could get my grubby digital digits on a copy?
IMHO, the crunchiest Cream riff ever, though, was “White Room.” I’d dance to that.
Alex, We agree on the Braves and Chipper. Chipper Jones is the greatest ATLANTA Brave position player of all time. An incredibly unselfish, altruistic guy coming off a 109 game, 432 PA season who saw a glimmer that he might not make the trip clause on his option and knowing that the Braves are totally unemotional about these things and would cut him if he didn’t perform offered the Braves a deal that they couldn’t refuse so that he KNEW that he would be playing 2007 and 2008 at his long time home for his long time manager and that it would make him look really good and get everyone to forget the Hooter’s girl and they would be able to sign free agents and all but mostly that he was safe for 2 more seasons and make more guarenteed money albiet somewhat less due to inflation and all.
Alex I’m laughing. I hope you are.
AAR,
I looked on beatport.com (dance music’s iTunes) and they didn’t have it.
It was released in Europe on the Manifesto label as Cream vs. The Hoxtons — Sunshine of Your Love Remix. There are 3 mixes, including one with a big kick drum and one, I believe, as a breakbeat.
I’ll find it.
Mac, check the original Bill James historical abstract, p. 405, for the entry in which he says that other writers and he have overstated slightly Ruth’s dominance and his role in changing baseball.
I’ll cast a vote for “Tales of Brave Ulysses.” Knocks me down every time!
Thanks.
AAR,
Here you go. It’s a UK site so it takes GBP, not USD.
http://www.7digital.com/artists/cream/sunshine-of-your-love-cd/
brad, did the #3 post really upset you that much? wow! it’s a freakin’ rivalry, that’s what you’re supposed to do (rub it in a little).
also, there are a ton of other topics that are discussed on this board frequently. you seem angry quite often in your posts.
chill 🙂
I’m not angry…just a 3rd year law student on the brink of insanity. I live in Alabama and come here to get AWAY from all the Auburn stuff that’s everywhere these days. I just wish these guys would act like they’ve won something before, but when your last championship was 51 years ago (and counting), I can see how they’re grasping for anything these days.
Anyway, Go Braves.
I always figure that the Auburn people who complain about the (admittedly ridiculous) “Got Twelve?” shirts all have “Got One Half?” shirts.
ok………you guys have me listening to my scratchy Disrali Gears album. i actually have it on CD, but its the worst re-mix i’ve ever heard. the drums are buried unger the muddy sounding guitars. Sunshine Of Your Love sounded better on my 1968 AM car radio.
Please include more math in your music related posts everyone.
Does anybody here know anything about an outfielder in Rome named Concepcion Rodriguez? Seen him play? His numbers look good there. I haven’t seen him mentioned as a prospect.
ok dix………….i’m going to play it 2X.
Mike, I’d never heard of that guy, but it’s too bad he’s an outfielder… I’m betting his parents wanted him to be a shortstop.
I hope his brother Honus Kubek Rodriguez does a slightly better job of making his family proud.
Cubs going for the mini-sweep over the Mets. It’s 4-1, bot 8.
They lose, we win & we’re ahead of them.
If the Mets lose their third in a row, you know what that means:
PANIC TIME!
Let me amend that:
Grand Slam by Ronny Cedeno, it’s 8-1 Cubs.
Off Jorge Sosa.
Three-run 8th inning blast last night, grand slam today.
And the winning pitcher for the Cubbies against this powerful Mets team is none other then Ted Lily with his ERA now down to 7.3.
Mets, lol
I’m just waiting for the game to end on radio so that I can hear the fans call in & tell us that:
1) Willie Randolph is a moron.
2) Aaron Heilman should be traded for Xavier Nady.
3) Carlos Delgado is finished.
4) Luis Castillo is worse than Ron Gardenhire.
5) Jorge Sosa should be put in a box until he becomes veal.
OK, it’s over. The next hour should be fun.
52–sorry to hear Sosa gave up HR on back to back days
Don’t worry–I’m no closet Kim Jung Il fan–I just don’t want the Mets to ditch him before the Braves play them this weekend. 🙂
Mets, lol
I hereby nominate this simple beauty to the Braves Journal Comment Hall of Fame.
I second that. Hilarious…
Since I am, actually, working on a paper on Bill James (I suppose I’ll post a copy, but I doubt it will say anything you don’t already know) I just want to repeat what I think was the most disturbing thing I ever learned from him. From the Esquire baseball preview in 1983:
“The new GM of the Kansas City Royals confessed in an interview that he had named his oldest son after Jonathan Livingston Seagull.”
Schuerholz had been the GM since 1981, actually, but I guess he still had that new GM smell. At any event, compared to this the Hampton trade looks great.
I needed the save from Wood.
And yes, “Mets, lol” gets an BJCHOF vote from me as well.
(3) and (5) are probably true, and (1) is at least debateable.
I needed the win from Lilly. Couldn’t have come against a nicer team.
Jorge Sosa makes Daniel Cabrera look like Greg Maddux.
It’s open season on Carlos Delgado.
[url=http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn104/dtflowers/metslol.jpg]Mets, lol[/url]
K. Johnson, 2B
Y. Escobar, SS
C. Jones, 3B
M. Teixeira, 1B
J. Francoeur, RF
B. McCann, C
M. Diaz, LF
M. Kotsay, CF
J. Smoltz, P
F. Lopez, 2B
C. Guzman, SS
R. Zimmerman, 3B
N. Johnson, 1B
A. Kearns, RF
L. Milledge, CF
W. Harris, LF
W. Nieves, C
J. Lannan, P
KJ and Kotsay are both back in the lineup
oh and how about Boyers line so far this year
12IP 6H 3BB 16K
other than the two bombs he’s given up, thats pretty darn impressive
So guys, heres a tough one for ya, Katie Temple or Erin Andrews?
Side conversation:
I dunno how well this has been discussed thus far, but it’s time we gave it the attention it deserves.
How f’ing terrible is this Whiskey Falls “LOOOOOOOOOOAD UP THE BAAASES!…I’M GONNA KNOCK ONE OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUT!” song.
I mean, my God, they play it 100 times a game. Surely they can’t keep this up all year. I’m going to kill somebody if so. Just terrible. What do they have our fan base figured for, a bunch of Toby Keith-listenin-to, Rebel-flag-wearin, truck-driving-yokels? jeesus. First we had to deal with those inbred tools from Auburn last year with their Mark Teixeira song, and now this. I’ll admit the Whiskey Falls one isnt as pathetic as the Teixeira song, but at least you could laugh at Auburn and those douchebags when that one came on (nothing funnier than the inbreds down on the plains…and they have no clue, lol.)…and it also only lasted half the season…
just thought I’d throw that out there to get the conversation started….Whiskey Falls delenda est.
to put it in perspective, they’ve played the damn thing twice since I posted that rant.
3,000, awesome!
Let me add my official….WAY TO GO, SMOLZTIE!
I think it’s a travesty that the ballpark wasn’t sold out for this game. The fans in Atlanta haven’t appreciated what they’ve had since the 90’s.
I think it got dusty in my house all of a sudden or something… my eyes are a little moist and itchy.
Way to go Smoltz!
COME ON BRAVES FAAANS, LETS PLAY SOME BAAAWLL!
:vomit:
wow…they’re interviewing Otis Nixon (about his relationship with Smoltz) at the ballpark on MASN right now (the Nats station here). A few thoughts:
1. He’s still really ugly
2. He appears to have really cleaned up his life, after the naked hotel incident 3.
3. He’s now a minister and a motivational speaker. wow.
Well done, Smoltzy.
I’m somewhat disappointed that there hasn’t been a huge build-up for this outside of, say, the Braves community. Oh well. Hopefully there’ll be some good stuff on BBTN or something.
It’s early etc. etc. but the Braves are off to another anemic start against a mediocre lefty.
Letting Kotsay start against lefties: The ongoing joke of the Braves season.
Who does John Lennon think he is? Oliver Perez?
largely because of two awful at-bats with 2 on and 2 out by kotsay so far
Lannan*
This is Gregor Blanco’s reward for hitting about .500 the last week and getting on base all the time.
congratulations to Smoltz for getting his 3000th strikeout.
Now we just have to win the game.
Not counting Smoltz, righthanders are 5-6 with a walk tonight. The switch-hitters and lefties are hitless and walkless.
Question for the room. WHY can’t we score of this Lannan stiff and get Smoltzie a win?
B/c Kotsay sucks.
we’ve had some decent at-bats, and like Mac said the righties have been excellent, but Tex, Mccann, and Kotsay have looked particularly overmatched for some reason
my goodness a 2 walk game for Frenchy
thats 3 great pa’s tonight for frenchy
Smoltz deserves better than this.
Doesn’t look like any balls are falling for the Braves tonight.
just like we, the fans, deserve better than this Whiskey Falls ad campaign.
Well done 3000K.
@83
This may seem a little off, and I’ve probably seen way too many braves games, (though I doubt I’m alone) but do you ever watch a game and during a certain point just think, “this is the kind of bulls#$# game that the braves always lose?”
I.E.- the Glavine vs. colorado game this year
getting beat by willie harris and wil nieves is depressing
Yeah, 5 wins in a row, home, against the worst offensive team in baseball coming off losing 15/17 and facing John Lannan…this is definitely a game we lose.
Great effort by Smoltz tonight. 7 IP, 0 BB, 10 Ks on 105 pitches.
Dont pinch hit Blanco here…please. That would suck. Kotsay has looked great all night.
…this would be one run loss #8.
Lots of hard hit liners right to the infielders tonight.
I glad you guys are so positive.
This really is unbelievable. Hopefully, the bullpen can hold it here and the heart of the order can take care of business next inning.
Looks like Boyer is the new guy whose arm will take abuse.
Way to talk up boyer joe.
Alrighty, let’s at least hold the Nats where they are and get Smoltz off the hook for the L.
How ’bout a big come-back win here? Bottom of the 9th, 2-run jack?
braves14-
He’s got a brand new ligament in that elbow; now reason not to get it stretched out a bit! ^_^
Middle of the order coming up. Now’s the time to get some runs
And against Burger King, too,
Of course, King gets both Chipper and Teixiera.
We’re going to end this season 0-60 in one-run games, aren’t we?
Yeah, I am starting to wonder if this team will ever win a one-run game.
Damnit
At least it’s not 1 run anymore.
The Cinderella ball is dropping for Campillo
Hey! It’s not a one-run game anymore! (being positive)
Bobby…wake up.
I guess this will not be an one-run game after all…what a waste of Smoltzie’s effort….
Looks like this is one of this season’s 54 that were meant to be losses. Can’t complain too much after 5 straight wins. Maybe some late heroics against the Nats pen. If not, get back in the win column tomorrow.
…Resop? This isn’t what I meant.
what do you know … a Resop sighting
There you go Brad. That’s what you will get when you wake Bobby up!
Wish he’d stayed asleep, like our offense.
The towel!
Oh, you are correct braves14. I guess that’s indeed the reason to bring in Resop…
‘night, boys.
congrats smoltzy…the rest of you guys need to get with it.
I can’t believe Campillo butchered that DP. What a junkballing piece of shit.
Resop did his thing.
At least all of Campillo’s runs are earned. He doesn’t have a major league caliber arm.
Bobby is trying his best to get Resop to clear waiver when the Braves try to send him to Richmond later.
Resop is awful.
It is utterly contemptible that the Braves continue to employ Chris Resop.
I was away, and I see Resop pulled off the rare Triple Grybo with none of his own runs scoring. Extremely impressive. Judges?
9.9 9.6 9.9 10 9.9 9.8
Yes, with the lowest score thrown out it’s a 59.5 for Resop! A gold medal for bad relief pitching goes to Naples, Florida’s own Chris Resop!
The only major league caliber pitchers we have in the bullpen right are Boyer and Acosta. I guess Ohman and Ring can stay since they’re left-handed.
right now*
I’m not willing to throw in the towel on Campillo just yet. And Bennett will probably be in the bullpen soon, when Glavine or Hampton (bwahaahahahahaha! I crack me up) returns. But yeah, we need Soriano. And Moylan, even if staples have to be involved.
Since I was away… Did Campillo screw up and tried to get a double play, leading to the error?
He short-hopped Escobar on a potential inning-ending DP, leading to all 5 runs scoring.
All were earned. Campillo is smoke and mirrors, there’s a reason he’s been a career minor leaguer.
The ball hopped into center field.
It was tailor made. He could’ve underhanded the ball to second and still gotten two.
I’m not that down on our bullpen. They’ve pitched pretty dang well of late. If Campillo makes the routine play, we are out of the inning. Resop, of course, needs to go away.
This bullpen is in need of a fully recovered Sori and Gonzo.
Nevertheless, the offense took the whole night off, and they would lost 1-0 regardless of what Campillo did.
Campillo’s been okay thus far. One bad outing doesn’t swamp the many (quality) innings of long relief he’s given us thus far. Ohman’s not very good be he’s servicable. Ring seems to get out lefties fine.
Overall it’s been a very good past week. It’s just a shame everything had to suck when Smoltz got 3K.
BTW, how about 3 consecutive starters getting into the 7th inning? And two actually getting out of it! :-O