I got nothing. Here’s a video.
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I got nothing. Here’s a video.
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
From last thread:
Ok Berman isn’t THAT bad. I’m just really tired of the same old crap he was doing when I was 10. The bacbabcabcabcackacbkabckabcGONE thing gets under my skin. I was mostly just complaining because he doesn’t seem to be the type of person that could bring Joe back to a level of… well, not PURE annoyance I guess.
Tonight I will be drinking beers and playing Wii with friends rather than watch the All Star Game yesss.
Why does the HR derby have to be 3+ hours long? I don’t have ADHD but, I got bored and had to flip channels.
I watched “Letters from Iwo Jima” instead of the HR Derby. Great movie. I think we know by now that baseball players can hit balls a long way in batting practice. Three rounds is way too long and it’s too much Chris Berman.
Shea Hillenbrand was cut loose by the Angels. Can he still play first? Either way, I think he would make our bench better.
Nah, Bobby wouldn’t want someone on the bench that can actually hit. What fun would that be?
I know where your coming from Smitty, anything to get Woodward off the 25 man roster must be an upgrade.
I think there were a few years that he’d have been a valuable addition to the bench, but I just looked at his stats this year and he has an OPS of .600. That is in Pete Orr territory. Actually Pete Orr looks like Babe Ruth stacked up against that.
I would like to get a first baseman with a good glove taht can help Salty learn the position and fill in for him late in a game. Can Mark Grace still hit?
Hillenbrand is a nut case, he’s always had clubhouse problems. If he doesnt play everyday, everyone will hear about it. Looks like a Yankee, not a brave to me
as for the Derby it still sucks, the 1st round keeps my attention because I dont ever get to see some of these guys swing the bat. After that 1.5 hrs I decide to move on to another channel. It started at 7 and finished at 10:15, thats too long for me. Lets give these guys aluminum bats and 5 outs or lets change it to a skills challenge. Make players have to hit the ball in certain areas of the park and let them earn points. The derby sucks and something needs to change
Hillenbrand looks like another Craig Wilson right now
That home run derby seemed like it would never end. Heck, it might still be going on right now.
I saw a rumor a few days ago that the Braves were interested in Dmitri Young to play 1B, although I don’t know why they don’t just give it to Salty full time.
nope nope nope
no dimitri
we’re in the mood for a LF and a Starter…
other than that…nobody
Chris,
LF is actually a productive part of the team, no reason to change it, unless they get a big time power hitter for next to nothing.
I’ll take Dmitri to split time with Salty over there. Salty is better from the right side anyways and Dmitri can hit. He’d have a better bat off the bench than anyone we got also. However, I wouldnt deal w/ Bowden at any cost. The guy is a moron
our only real need is more pitching, starters preferably. Why do they think Ledezma will be a better starter, is it because he cant get any worse as a reliever. They liked him for some reason, I hope we get to see why…
Mark Grace may not be able to hit anymore, but I bet he could find his glove.
I think the only thing we need to make sure of improving is SP. We could get Pujols to play first and we’d still need a SP to make a run toward the postseason.
I still think we end up with Matt Morris before the deadline.
I like Hillenbrand’s bat but not his brain. Still, I would rather have Shea flinging Winston the Watercooler when he doesn’t play but hits when he does over Woodward any day of the week. Woodward needs to be confined, to a small, locked, private space for the next 4 months.
As for Chris Berman, he grew tiring by about 1989. His act is so old & tired even Gene Simmons is telling him to hang it up.
The sad part is with Dan Patrick leaving the 4-letter (and Patrick grew really tiresome since Olbermann left and became a ranter on MSNBC) the 4-letter will probably just increase Berman and have him host everything again.
Imagine the next NBA Finals with Berman hosting say Screamin A. Smith. My eyes and ears may explode. The fun part of that is Screamin’ A may actually make a joke at Berman about “You’re with me, Leather”.
I am also surprised ESPN hasn’t created a special entry for Berman in the seizure inducing, “Who’s Now?” tournament.
The scary thing about “Who’s Now” is that, theoretically, as soon as they decide who’s “now”, ESPN can immediately start the process over, again and again. And they might.
would you trade Yunel for Morris? Morris would probably be a rental, I dont see anyway we can afford his salary next year. If the Giants trade him, I dont see them paying any portion of his salary either. I would rather get Lowry, but young cheap good starters probably wont get traded
Sansho, ESPN will probably think of something more horrifying then “Who”s Now?” after this tournament ias painfully over.
csg, I think we have a shot at keeping Morris…if we want to give ourselves a chance to make the Playoffs this year, we need to make the move for Morris.
I think Morris contract is reasonable next year (something like 8 or 9 mil). If we went with a veteran, then he is the exact type of guy that JS would go after.
I would trade Yunel for Morris without even thinking about it. A better question is would you trade Salty for Morris?
Hell no!
We don’t want Shea Hillenbrand at all. Ask any team he’s ever played for. He’s not someone who endears himself to teammates, managers, or fans.
Hillenbrand is pretty terrible.
I wouldn’t trade Saltalamacchia, no. I’d trade Escobar in a heartbeat, but Jarrod should be playing first base every day until he proves he can’t.
Guys, Matt Morris just isn’t that good. Morris isn’t exactly going to turn the tide for the Braves pitching staff. How is acquiring another #4 SP going to buoy playoff hopes? That’s just another several $MM wasted on a mediocre pitcher.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5784
@12 & 15
i thought that the Gnats wanted both escobar and salty for dmitri, so it looks like it would be hard to have him show salty the ropes at 1B.
even if it were possible, i just don’t think it’s worth it. i wouldn’t give up much for an older guy with that was signed to a minor league deal. yes he can hit but where’s the real upside? I’ll echo mac’s statement. salty should be playing everyday. the braves need to get off the fence with him and just give him the job fulltime.
New poll.
That should really be a “check all that apply” one, Mac. I’m having difficulty picking just one…heh.
And I’m pretty sure that Morris is at least a 2 or 3 starter. If he’s a 4, then Davies and James should be back in the minors.
i think the HR derby needs a cage match facet.
can anyone explain how the Nats didnt trade Soriano last year???
ddawg,
because they were so close to being contenders? nah that can’t be it.
yep, Bowden, he’s an idiot
I just don’t want Saltalamacchia traded, at all costs. I don’t give a flip if he doesn’t start at first base at all the rest of this season. I want him here.
I’m guessing his contract was so big that he was untradeable. Either that or he had a no-trade clause. Or maybe Jim Bowden is even more of an idiot than I think he is. Certain to be one of those three…heh.
ddawg,
My guess is that it put butts in the seats, but what do I know?
Or what Nick said. What do I know?? *laughs*
Impressive…
In fact, of the 18 starters in the ’34 All-Star Game, only one player, Wally Berger of the Boston Braves, failed to make it to Cooperstown.
I think that’s a legitimate option, Sam. I might place it under the “Bowden is an idiot” category, though, as there was no way he was re-signing with them this year, so what good was two more months?
I tell you what, if you can get a 3.55 ERA from your fourth starter, you’re doing pretty good.
They didn’t trade him because they figured that the prospects they would have been able to pry away from a team able to take on Soriano’s $10 million salary would not have been as good as the draft picks they got for letting him walk. They had a fairly good draft, so they may have been right.
Hard to say, of course, but because of Soriano’s largeish salary–none of which the Nats were willing to eat–there weren’t THAT many options, or blue chip prospects, available.
Morris ERA may be somewhat admirable at 3.55, but his peripherals tell the true story. He’s no rotation savior.
If the Braves are going to persue starting pitching in the hopes that *one guy* is going to push them over the top, the SP needs to be of a higher grade than Matt Morris. Javier Vazquez or Aaron Harang, if available at a reasonable price, would be difference-makers.
Most of the other rumored options (Morris, Garland, etc.) are a waste of time and money.
I would be thrilled with Morris. He has a career 3.77 ERA, also leads the NL in complete games with 3 this year. Career winning record and a former 22 game winner in STL. He’s a vet and he’s no worse than a #2
#46- he also has the oldest defense in baseball behind him
That may be a bit harsh–I do think Matt Morris would be an upgrade over Kyle Davies and Chuck James, but his salary would be detrimental at his level of performance.
I’m just tired of watching the Braves throw mediocre arms every other night. I miss the Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz days and I grew up spoiled…
Garland is having shoulder issues again and got shelled in his last start because of it. He’s a liability for any team right now. I would love to get Harang over Morris or Vasquez, but any of them would get Davies out of our rotation. it would let Chuck be the true #4 that he is
Hampton also was a 20+ game winner not long ago, and I think we all agree he’s not the same guy he once was. Injuries and age have taken their toll–Morris is a shadow of his former self. He’s essentially Jeff Suppan with a better pedigree.
The Reds have said that Harang is not available under any circumstances…
I hadn’t seen that anywhere. Looks like Javier Vazquez is the best pitcher on the market.
But Suppan (and Morris) would be incredibly valuable to this team right now. Remember, we’re in the NL.
I too am on the Morris bandwagon. On this team, in this league, he’d be a difference maker.
I don’t see how Vazquez or Harang could hit the market at a “reasonable” price. Why would either of their teams trade those guys unless they were netting a real bounty in return?
And AAR is right on the money with respect to the Soriano non-deal. They got a supplemental first rounder and the third pick in the second round in this past draft for Soriano, which is pretty good.
Can we make Barry Zito as exhibit “A” to this argument? There are very, very few pitchers that are worth a great position player prospect. Remember, Chuck James and his paltry salary ($327,000.00 in 2006) is pitching better through the first 83 games than a guy making $18,000,000.00 a year. Unless a guy has a K rate above 8 per 9 innings, just get a live arm from the minors and work through it.
I agree with Stu re Vazquez and Harang. Everyone says, let’s get so-and-so if it’s at a reasonable price. Well, the point is, it’s not going to be a reasonable price. You aren’t going to get a top-notch SP (and I’m not sure I would consider Vazquez to be one anyway) for Yunel Escobar and Pete Orr. The problem is, like it or not, the Braves only real chip is Salty. I don’t think teams are dazzled by the Braves minor league prospects like they might have once been so the idea that you can get someone good for relatively little is, I think, a pipe dream. I do think Matt Morris would be an upgrade over Davies just because of his experience but he obviously isn’t going to anchor a staff. I don’t think Hampton’s peripherals were all that great either the last time he pitched–generations ago.
As for Soriano, to be fair to Bowden, he had to think about the business end of things too. Attendence was down (and is still down) thanks to snafus before the season with the new stadium and so forth. Trading the only legitimate player with fan appeal would have only alienated more fans. Lots of people here wanted to keep Soriano and play it out. It’s easy to say, trade this guy and get prospects, but a new team also has to worry about its fan base. As it is, Kasten has pissed off a lot of people here, as reflected in attendence, by basically putting all the money into the farm system and fielding a minor league team (although the Nats have played much better than expected). And, as Alex said, it’s not clear that what they would have gotten for Soriano would have been much better than the draft picks.
A little interview with our fearless leader Mac…
http://www.blowncoverage.com/2007/07/5-minutes-with-mac-thomason.html
Great interview mac and davey…
Matt Morris’ K rate has been declining for years. He pitches in a better pitcher’s park than the Ted. Any trade for which we offer more than spit has “mistake” written all over it.
I really think Jo-Jo would put up a Morris season, if given the chance.
Finally, a voice of reason on this Morris nonsense. The Braves already have enough money tied up in mediocrity. The expected performance of Matt Morris over the second half of the season can be duplicated in a much, much less expensive player.
Spend the big money on elite players and let your competition throw millions of dollars at league-average players.
The Braves can either do as good or better than Morris from within the organization, or they need to dangle Salty in hopes of landing a real ace.
King Diamond, I totally understand what you’re saying, but I’m not sure that “The expected performance of Matt Morris over the second half of the season can be duplicated in a much, much less expensive player.”
This team has had a serious difficulty the last couple years doing just that.
I’m with Stu. Get a starter.
Keep Salty. Trade Yunel, if nec. Can we do it? No idea. Hope so.
On the HR derby/film tip, I’m with Marc. I can’t watch the HR derby & “Letters from Iwo Jima” was outstanding. My favorite flick from last year.
Never thought I’d say it about Clint Eastwood, but he’s really become a national treasure. As a director, his movies are pretty great.
Buddy Carlyle is making the league minimum. Is Matt Morris worth sending top prospects to acquire and then spending several millions of dollars on when there are several Buddy Carlyles in every organization’s minor league systems? Hell no.
If the Braves can’t at least come close to duplicating league-average pitching performances at below-average salaries, fire the scouts and coaches.
There is simply no excuse for wasting money and prospects on proven mediocrity when it can be had for “free.”
exactly…Buddy Carlyle is having a slightly better season than Matt Morris, when you look at the numbers. It isn’t that Buddy Carlyle is great and is going to win a pennant for us, it is that Matt Morris isn’t going to do that, either, and Morris has the baggage of a big contract (not to mention trading away a great prospect to get him).
Seriously. If we can get morris for escobar and a minor leaguer, i would do it in a hurry. We’ve got no place for escobar in our infield and if we can get a proven vet like morris to give us some quality innings then let’s do it. At any rate we’ve got to get Kyle Davies out of here! He just won a game so he is due to lose about 7 in a row now. If we dont ship him to Richmond, he will pitch us out of the playoff race.
Yes, but while Buddy Carlyle is pitching relatively well (for now), Anthony Lerew, Mark Redman, and Lance Cormier were unable to manage that, not to mention the ongoing trials and travails of Kyle Davies. It’s undoubtedly true that there are plenty of pitchers who can give a league-average performance on the cheap, but they’re awfully hard to find, and you have to endure a lot of blowout losses before you manage to turn them up.
I’m with you Alex. Where are these “league average” pitchers for cheap? If they are in the back of our rotation already, i haven’t seen them.
Matt Morris is no saviour–but he is probably as good as the Braves can get right now. The difference between Carlyle and Morris is that the latter is a proven pitcher. Carlyle may well continue to be effective, but it is also quite possible that the league will wise up to him and begin to hit him.
I would trade Escobar (and a low grade minor league player if necessary) for Morris and then send Davies to Richmond. Smoltz, Hudson, James, Morris and Carlyle (with Reyes, Davies, Harrison available in the minors) should keep the Braves at least highly competitive for 2007.
I have said this before you do not trade away power hitting switch hitting all-star caliber players (Salty), that an organization has the rights for up to 6 years for anything less than a young number 2 starter. In my mind I am thinking someone like Ian Snell.
The two most valuable commodities in baseball today are power pitching and power hitting. As much as I want to see the Braves win this year, I do not want to do that at the expense of our future. The Braves are still a very young team that is going to have a very good opportunity to compete over the next several years.
While the Braves would definitely have won a few more games with a solid number 3 starter, they also would have won a few more games with an actual clean up hitter.
beedee–
I agree. I’d pay damn good money to see David Ortiz & Manny v. Jeter & ARod in a no holds barred hardcore match instead of the home run derby. Of course, this is after each team is trained by Abdullah the Butcher, Sabu, Mick Foley, and Terry Funk.
At least I can dream.
And I wouldn’t trade Salty for anything. To me, he’s the definition of “untouchable prospect”.
And don’t forget that morriss’ contract (at what, 8 million-I don’t know) would go on the books for 2008, which makes it less likeley we can sign AJ or a viable external replacement in CF.
If the Braves had the financial resources of the Red Sox, Yankees or Mets, I’d be all for throwing mid-level prospects and money at an innings-eater like MM, but the fact is that Atlanta has to be a bit more savvy than that.
My argument against Morris essentially boils down to the fact that the Braves would be foolish to waste resources (Prospects and salary) on a player who is simply not worth it.
I wouldn’t think we’d be able to sign a viable replacement in CF anyway, since Smoltz and Hudson are going to be sucking up all that money in their salary increases.
well, then we are 8 million in the hole-who gets the axe, under that scenario?
Huh? *confused*
50% of MLB pitchers are below “league average”.
OR DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MINDS?
I’d trade no more than Escobar and filler for Morris.
Here’s the point. If you get Morris, who gets shoved out of the rotation? The obvious answer now would be Davies. But if you send Davies down to Richmond at this point, it’s not likely to do him any good and might destroy his confidence. Obviously, Carlisle is pitching better right now, but he is a journeyman at best; if you have a rotation of Smoltz (assuming he’s healthy), Hudson, James, Morris, and Carlisle, it might help you get to the playoffs this year, but it has no long term potential. I’m still convinced that Davies has a significant upside if it can be harnassed–certainly more so than Carlisle, no matter how well he has pitched so far. Unless the Braves are ready to give up completely on Davies–which I doubt they are–I think they have to stick with him–unless, of course, they were able to acquire a legitimate top or the rotation starter–because Carlisle and Morris do nothing for the future.
“I have said this before you do not trade away power hitting switch hitting all-star caliber players ”
Lets not get carried away here, Salty has along way to go before he is an allstar. He’s a great prospect, but not allstar caliber yet.
Marc, that’s a very lucid, well-argued point. The question is if Smoltz, Hudson, James, Davies and Carlyle can manage to get us to the playoffs. Davies’ confidence has never been all that high; he’s sort of like a starting pitcher version of Joey Devine. I’m all for keeping him in the rotation as long as he can learn to throw strikes in the majors, but right now he’s like Shaq at the free throw line up there.
Will he ever realize his potential? Is there anything the Braves can do until then?
Did we ever find out what became of the Hampton insurance money question?
Unknown, that’s a good point, but he’s hitting over .300 with average and power; if he were a full-time catcher, he’d definitely be All-Star caliber. He’s shown no indication that more at-bats would expose him to being exploited by pitchers. He’s not just the future, he’s the now.
We’re not trading for an ace or an “anchor”, we’re trading for a third reliable starter. That’s the point. If James and Davies were reliable, we wouldn’t need to trade, but they aren’t so we do, unless we want to be doomed to finish out of the postseason this year. If we had pitchers in the minors who can duplicate Morris’ performance, why in hell aren’t they up here now? Buddy Carlyle was a stroke of complete luck, and God knows if he’ll keep pitching like this the rest of the year.
This is what teams who are serious do, guys. They trade for things they might need. They don’t just keep going back to the farm system and hoping it might work out. We’ve been doing this too often lately, and it seems to me that it’s starting to take a toll on our farm system. We have no prospects anyone wants anymore that’s within a year or so of coming up because they’re all already up.
If we think Salty is too valuable to trade, that’s fine, there’s nothing wrong with that. But that means we have to put another package together with other players. No team can win with only their farm system.
Nobody knows what future years will bring. How do you know it won’t be worth it to try now? For all you know, this could be our last chance at it before we go in the crapper for 10 years. When you’re two games out of the division lead and you have a glaring hole, you fix it. If you just sit there and let your team fall out of it when they could be a playoff team, you’re a terrible organization. Last year we fixed our most glaring problem when it was pretty much a lost cause and the only thing we lost was Betemit, who would still be sitting on the bench doing nothing. Why wouldn’t we do it this year when we actually have a chance?
L’il Tony, nonwalking king:
Peña’s no-walk streak is amazing
Now we’re ruining our chance this year so that we don’t hurt Kyle Davies’ feelings? Besides, whether he deserves it or not, it would probably be Carlyle who would be sent down.
There are very few players for whom writing off a season that has potential would be worth it.
It’s possible…I repeat: POSSIBLE…that Salty is one of those players.
Kyle Davies, on the other hand, is not even in the same universe as that discussion.
I never said that Salty is an all-star player currently, but he definitely has that kind of talent. I just don’t think you trade that away when he is still locked under for several more years. I think you have to give pause and really consider that.
While it’s also true that you never know what the future holds it is still management’s job to analyze and forecast where this team is going. It is my opinon that this team will be very talented and competitive for many years to come.
History is written with teams that went for it all and traded away the wrong prospect for a shot to make the post seaston(John Smoltz Tigers).
Hey guys, it’ll all be alright, Stanyon Turtze should be of the DL soon, right? /sarcasm
Salty is rated by some publication that just came out as the 11th best prospect in the game-look at the names around him. I really, really do not want to lose him (although I do admit, I thought we were crazy to give up marte).
I agreee with Nick that no team can win just with its farm system. That’s why the Braves have gotten worse as the payroll has declined–no matter how good the farm system is, you can’t expect to win big time without getting some help from outside. My only point is that, if the Braves are going to be serious and they don’t think Davies is a long-term answer,they need to go after a real top-of-the-line SP (even if that includes giving up Salty) rather than stop-gaps like Morris. It’s pretty clear that Hudson is more of a number 2, at best, at this stage in his career. I would rather go ahead and pull the trigger and get someone that can be around in the future rather than getting Morris and then having to worry about the same thing next year. I agree with Nick that you never know what the future holds, but, unless you want to be the Toronto Blue Jays, you have to consider the long-term picture. And, as much as he has struggled, I still think Davies has a lot of upside. If not, they should get rid of him. But they need to be making moves that aim at helping both in the short-term and the long-term. They can’t go into next year with this rotation because time is working against Smoltz.
Marc,
That is what I am talking about if you’re trading high quality prospects let’s do so to get a young quality number 1-2 starting pitcher. The name I keep thinking of is Ian Snell. This would be much better than trading for an aging veteran on the downside of their career.
By the way, who wants to see Harry Potter tonight?
I find myself somewhere between Kenny’s #69 posting and Nick’s at #83. It makes me realize that JS does earn his money.
When Bobby Cox voiced frustration about Davies (notable for how rarely he does it), it seemed to me that Braves management admitted a problem. I think they’re having a hard time solving it.
But you are or you ain’t, John. Dazzle us, man!
@79
artist, they said the same thing about your boy b-mac.
For those of you who’ve eaten a disagreeable lunch and would like to lose it, there’s an article about Boras on the Braves’ MLB site.
To paraphrase Boras on Andruw Jones this year:
“Who are you gonna believe,darlin’; what I tell you or you’re own lyin’ eyes?”
Saltalamacchia for Ian Snell. I’d do it. Problem is, Dave Littlefield wouldn’t.
Not sure if this has been mentioned (don’t think it has), but this from DOB:
So a top Braves scout — and I mean a very top one — was at a ballpark last week and said to the PR person, “Can I get media guides for Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and Seattle? Gotta do my homework.”
Arroyo? David Weathers? One of Pittsburgh’s lefties? Don’t know, but lot of possibilities….
Ca c’est tres interessant.
Personally I don’t care if Davies or Carlyle is sent to AAA. I just want to see one get sent down because we traded for a solid #3 starter. Notice I didn’t say #1 or #2. That is because the only way that will ever happen is to trade Salty and his wife. We don’t want to do that.
There’s not a great deal I wouldn’t trade for Salty’s wife.
I am not sure, David Littlefield did trade away Braves slayer Oliver Perez for Xavier Nady. He would also be dealy with JS, the man who can convince any team they are getting equal value. I am still stunned that we traded Horacio Ramirez for Soriano. JS was talking about how the trade was “equal value” for each team with straight face. I would hate to play poker with that man.
OSCAR VILLAREAL
From Cincinnati’s newspapter:
Scouts say the Cincinnati Reds are alerting other clubs that everybody on their roster is available except Aaron Harang, Homer Bailey, Josh Hamilton, Alex Gonzalez and Brandon Phillips
Cross off Harang, at least for what we would pay for him.
Check out what Carlos Gomez (among my absolute favorite baseball writers) has to say about Josh Fields, Atlanta’s 2nd-round pick last month:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/breaking-down-the-draft-10-more-overrated-underrated-picks/
(You’ll have to scroll down.)
Gomez’s stuff is about the most interesting you’ll find on the internet.
We can all quibble over semantics as to whether Morris is a #3 or a #4 starter, but as some folks stated earlier, he’s far more reliable and proven as opposed to Chuck James (who can’t pitch past the 6th, thus always taxing the bullpen) and Kyle Davies, who, with the exception of Sunday night against a terrible Padres offense, just STINKS.
I don’t love Matt Morris, but in a mediocre National League when the best team in the NL currently has just 3 more wins as opposed to the Braves, well, putting together a package including Escobar for Morris, who has a reasonable enough contract, makes perfect sense.
The fact is, if Smoltz is healthy, Smoltz, Hudson, Morris, Carlyle, & James sounds a lot more respectable. That rotation minus Morris and + Davies…well, that’s a lot harder to maintain.
Cody Johnson, last year’s #1, is raking in Danville. 4 homers in 55 ABs and his OPS is getting close to 1.100. Plus, he just turned 18.
I officially apologize for calling the pick a joke last year.
I’d feel better if they signed Heyward and Fields though.
You know, I just turned 18… five and a half years ago.
Jeez, I’m old.
@88
That’s really not all that far away from what we were yelling about Cormier a couple of months ago.
Rumours that Ichiro has been re-upped for 5 yrs at 20 mil per. ouch!
@87
Yes, but would John Smoltz have made that much of a difference to the Tigers in any year other than last? I argue no. So they would’ve had a legitimate ace. Would that have changed the fact that the rest of the team sucked? He wouldn’t have made a damn bit of difference. The Tigers needed a starter to get them to the playoffs in ’87, and Alexander gave them that. They got what they wanted, and while what they lost was great, I don’t think it would’ve mattered. And you have to ask yourself, would Smoltz have been as good without Leo Mazzone? I don’t know, but one could definitely make the argument that he wouldn’t have.
The point is that I’m sure there are some situations where you can point to a trade and say that that’s what sent the franchise into a death spiral (see: Red Sox, Babe Ruth), but I think that if you really took a look at these terrible deals, you would find that most of them didn’t turn the franchise around for the worst, but that the franchise was going down the tubes anyway. A good franchise can make up for a bad deal. Remember that awful deal the Mets made a couple years ago? Was it Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano and Kris Benson? Wait, I guess it had to be Kazmir for Zambrano and then Benson was acquired separtely. Anyway, whatever it was, it was terrible, and cemented Steve Phillips as one of baseball’s most inept GMs. But while their rotation would be better with Scott Kazmir, they certainly managed to recover, I would say.
Phillips didn’t make that trade. It was Jim Duquette, the interim GM. I remember hearing the deal & thinking, “They got the wrong Zambrano.”
Phillips actually made some really good deals for the Mets—Piazza, Leiter, Ventura. But the one that really put the Mets over the hump was Mike Hampton, the main reason they made the 2000 WS. (A short-term solution if there ever was one.)
Then came Mo Vaughn.
Not that there is a lot of credibility in AOL Sports, but they have an article up about “Worst All-Star Selections” of All-Time, by position, featuring none other than former Brave Mark “The Flamethrower” Redman. Link Below.
http://sports.aol.com/mlb/story/_a/all-stars-arent-always-best-of-best/20070708212509990001
Oh, and they hate on Walt Weiss. Come on, give the guy a break. He’s Walt Weiss.
Discussion! Other Worst All-Stars of All-Time?
James Baldwin in 2000?
Another Alex R.,
Welcome to the Old Fogey Club 🙂
Oh no way.
ROBERT FICK WAS AN ALL-STAR.
I’m not watching the game tonight.
bfan, #89
I don’t hear much complaining about that trade anymore. 🙂
Well, I am watching the game tonight, no matter how lame it is.
How about our 1990 All-Star Greg Olson….
Also, the NL starting pitcher that year was Jack Armstrong.
I liked Greg Olson, got to talk to him at a spring training game in Kissimmee back in 91. Real cool guy, lots of baseball knowledge…always thought he would make a good manager…
NL’s up 1-0 for once.
I just put in a new plugin for comments and am testing to make sure this works.
Test-test…
That Ichiro is a speedy little freak. I always make a point to catch one of his games each year.
McCann is catching, there’s finally some reason to watch this game.
McCann’s in at catcher now. 🙂 I think he’ll be batting in the 8th or 9th.
And now it looks like the mic is out for the singer of God Bless America or something.
What a game.
Oh, here we go.
Ichiro is a freak. I guess that’s why he’s getting that fat contract from the Mariners.
We may very well see him in the Hall of Fame someday, the first hugely singles hitter to do so. *laughs*
Not really, of course, but he is a singles guy.
Stupid Billy Wagner.
My fantasy team stepped up okay tonight. Ichiro was off the chain, Verlander was eh, Griffey was okay, Webb isn’t in yet, Ordonez went 0-2. Polanco and Pudge were okay. Unfortunately, I do not get extra stats for having guys (a lot of them, actually) in the AS game.
Tony LaRussa is such an idiot. When you bat Orlando Hudson, Aaron Rowand, and Freddy Sanchez back to back in the eighth inning of an all star game, you aren’t playing to win.
I believe Billy Hamilton is the most single-hittin’ HOFer (as in most of his hits were singles, not most singles hit). 87.2% of his hits were singles — Ichiro is at 80.6%.
Not arguing, Sam, just expanding on your point.
Here’s McCann’s AB!
I was just kidding, Sansho 🙂
Popped up.
Had McCann been able to get on, we’d have a tie ball game. Oh well, maybe the NL will tie it and McCann will hit the winning run in in extra innings… (if that happens, though, I’ll be in bed).
LaRussa knows he isn’t going to the WS this year, so that’s why he won’t hit Pujols. At least that’s all I can figure.
Of course a Phillie would blow it.
And like 137 says. WHY would you let Pujols sit in that spot? Seriously, pinch hitting Pujols in that spot is what the ASG is all about… the crowd would have been hot for that.
Ok I’ve had too many to drink, but one last thing. The damn managers must forget their in the damn entertainment business. Who gives a crap about Aaron freakin’ Roward. Lame.
Just one more reason to hate Tony LaRussa. What an asshole.
And not playing his own player as well!
Yeah, I was in a bar with a couple buddies and none of us could figure out why he didn’t pinch hit Pujols… even for Lee, who already had an at-bat (I think). I really could care less about the All-Star game, but I do think LaRussa is an overrated jackass, the WS Title from last season notwithstanding.
I am in the middle of moving house so I did not get to see much of the All Star Game–so maybe I missed the reason why Pujols sat on the bench for the whole game. Rowand is not exactly my idea of bringing firepower to the plate in the bottom of the 9th.
With respect to Joshua Fields, I doubt the Braves will sign him. He is a Boras client with a huge upside and a bad college season. Boras will almost certainly tell him that he can make much more money by returning to UGA and having a great senior season.
I hope that I am wrong….
WTF was Tony LaRussa doing?? He should have at least brought Pujols to pinch hit for Rowand come on now!! come on TOny bases Loaded who would u prefer to make the last out Rowand Or Pujols!!!. Guess Tony was mad at Pujols for entering the HR derby cause he did make some statement about only 5 outs per round. FAck Tony!
Here’s a Slate article about why Bobby Cox doesn’t deserve to break baseball’s all-time ejection record.
http://www.slate.com/id/2170031/nav/tap3/
I want to thank Maverick and ‘Rissa for helping set up another “oh no, it’s a crazy rant time by Alex R.” session. Ahem.
It’s been well documented for some time how much I loathe LaRussa (along with most of Braves Journal) for not only being an overrated hack, alcoholic of a Manager, but for the fact that he continues for no apparent reason, to bash Bobby Cox, publicly. Jealous much?
But last night’s shameful and humiliating Managerial performance is my last straw with this man. Everytime I see his snide face on TV, I want to punch his lights out, and last night, as ‘Rissa, Maverick and others have so correctly pointed out, LaRussa knows the Cards have NO CHANCE to make the World Series so this jackal, half man leaves the best hitter in the National League, his own guy, on the bench…essentially to rest him, because hey, what does it matter with the Cards going nowhere this year.
Besides saying the obvious that Bobby would have never done that (if Chipper is sitting on the all star bench and the best hitter available and he’s got Orlando Hudson and Freddy Freaking Sanchez coming up, we all know Cox would use Chipper) the fact that LaRussa would give a big F.U. to the National League is disgusting.
It’s not to say that Pujols wouldn’t have gone there and been downed by K-Rod on 3 pitches. Fine, it happens. But if you have Pujols on the bench and 3 junky hitters in a row like that, you bat the man and give yourself a shot.
LaRussa’s blatantly disgusting managing last night lends credence to the argument that Baseball now is going to have to conbsider going the way of the NBA….the teams with the BEST RECORD at the All Star break are the Managers.
You know if Willie Randolph or Bud Black was managing last night for the NL, a couple of NL teams with a real shot at the World Series, they use Pujols. Cox uses Pujols. Everyone Manager who’s not a complete a–hole (like LaRussa), uses Pujols.
Anyway, if the Braves somehow manage to back into the World Series (of Poker?) I know I will be bringing up July 10th and reminding everyone that we don’t have home field advantage thanks to LaRussa.
Alex R.–A good rant and let me had that if Pujols had pinch hit and gotten a hit, it would have almost certainly broken a painful streak for NL fans.
I have disliked the All Star game a bit more each year–but I was not prepare for such a shameful mangerial performance. At least the game (and all of the hype by fair weather baseball fans) is gone for a year….
Remy–Thanks for the piece on Cox and McGraw–it does draw some interesting and useful comparison and makes me want to go back and watch Ken Burns…
I stopped watching after Ichiro hit the home run and went to bed. It’s no fun watching when the same team wins every year–and I thought that when the NL was winning every year too. It’s so ludicrous to have home field advantage hinge on the All-Star game, especially when home field is so much more important now because of the different rules.
Just a point about what Nick said about Smoltz. I agree and always have that felt that the Tigers didn’t necessarily make a mistake trading Smoltz for Alexander and Smoltz wouldn’t have made that much difference over the years for the Tigers. But I do think it’s different for the Braves–the 1987 Tigers were an aging team that obviously had one last shot (and figured to have a fairly easy time in the AL playoffs if they got in although, of course, it didn’t work out that way). The Braves, on the other hand, are largely a young team so there is no reason they can’t be competitive. But where they aren’t young and aren’t particularly talented is the starting rotation. Teams with limited payrolls cannot afford to simply think about the present and I shudder to think of going into next season with a rotation potentially of Smoltz (assuming he can even pitch), Hudson (getting older and not better), 5-inning James, career journeyman Carlisle, and, mediocre Matt Morris. If they are going to make a move, make a big move that helps them now and in the future. If you are ready to throw Davies under the bus, you need to have someone that you can build the rotation around.
Morris-
He’s done well so far, but I have no confidence that he’ll be able to keep his ERA below, say, 5.00 in Atlanta. Let’s not forget that, in addition to his god-awful K-rate, he pitches in the weakest-hitting division in baseball, not to mention a pitching-friendly park. I’ll take Davies, JoJo, or even a healthy Cormier ahead of him at this point. His only value for us would be to go for a lot of innings.
And what’s all this hate for Chucky? His got an ERA under 4.00, and my only complaint is the walk-rate (which I think he’ll improve). He doens’t eat innings like you’d like to see, but the innings he’s given us are quality.
you cant erally blame Chucky for not going deep into games, last time out Bobby pulled him after 5 and he’d only thrown 76 pitches. He might have been able to get two more that night. Bobby made some poor choices in my opinion down the stretch and really used the pen too much. He made yates come into two situations that didnt call for him. He didnt let Soriano finish off the game even though he blew everyone away in the 8th. Devine only got 1 inning to pitch in and there were several occasions that he could’ve been used, esp the Carlyle game. However, we finished with a very good stretch and everyone is resting now.
Pujuols is pissed at Tony, I love it…Call him out, he deserves this loss!
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7011114
From another site, I dont like it, we need pitching:
David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution says the Teixeira-to-Atlanta rumor was still making the rounds at the All-Star Game. He seems to be speculating when he says Jon Daniels would require Salty and another young player, but that sounds about right. Perhaps the Braves wouldn’t be daunted by Teixeira’s free agency after 2008. They could definitely let him walk and collect some valuable draft picks. That’d bypass a lot of the Boras factor, though they’ll still have to arrive at a 2008 salary.
well since Ichiro got 5yr/100 mil, I think that completely takes Andruw away from ATL. We would basically have to trade Renty and Wickman to have enough salary room for him, its not worth it. Wickman will retire adn that’ll give us about $6 mil to play with, but I see Renty being here for one more year. Andruw will be looking for at least 16-18mil for about 6-7 years
#54- no thanks, he’s been injured and isnt performing. Way too much cost also
mlb rumors…Braves Still Interested In Teixeira?
CSG, I don’t blame Bobby at all for a quick hook–his starting pitching has been so unreliable for him late in games, often blowing up with very little warning as soon as the inning number hits 7. My usual complaint about Bobby is that he lets pitchers stay in for too long, like with Tim Hudson’s near-complete game earlier this season, where he pitched 8 brilliant shutout innings, then completely self-destructed in the 9th, and Wickman lost the game.
I wasnt advocating the article, just passing on the info. I believe we need pitching, and unless Teixeria can throw 7 shoutout innings every 5th day, he isnt going to fix this teams problems.
Our great bullpen is going to be gassed by september if we cant get some innings from our starters….
AAR – I agree, but it really isnt James’ fault if Bobby pulls him after 76 pitches when the pen is already overused. Plus, why use Yates in those two situations
Spitter – agree
I just dont really put too much into that rumor, JS has to know that our rotation is the only concern. If Andruw is coming around, our offense will be strong enough for a run at the division. Why trade our only piece, Salty, for more offense. Doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me, guess thats why its a rumor
Teixeira for Salty…I would do that. A proven switch-hitter with power and a 1st baseman. And he is only 27 y/o? Why not?
Cormier definately is not better that Matt Morris.
Tony,
Because we’d get a season an a half out of him. He’s injured this year, and has Boras as an agent. We need pitching, starting pitching. We’ve got a #1, a #2 and three #5’s….in a short playoff format we’d get hammered. Thats if we make the playoffs…and I whole heartedly feel that if we dont get another starter, we dont make it far into the playoffs.
Dont get me wrong, Tex is a stud, and I’d love to see him in a Braves uni, but he’s not what this team needs right now.
The Teixera rumor is silly. If we were going to trade Salty, why would we trade him for 1 1/2 years of Tex vs. 5+ years of Salty and his cheap contract? It makes zero sense. I’ve pretty much come to the point where the only way I’d be O.K. (not happy) with a Salty trade is if it netted us a young #1 with many arb years left.
If LaRussa was saving Pujols as a versatile sub for an extra innings situation, then why didn’t he use Sanchez in the super sub role? No one cares if Sanchez doesn’t play, and as we all know, Pujols is the far superior player.
I hate LaRussa. Asleep at the wheel, again.
Wouldn’t do Salty for Tex, would do Escobar and another prospect for him.
Hate King, it took me second for that last line to sink in, my wife wanted to know why I was laughing so hard….
@167…..agreed
La Russa has been doing this for years, doing unconventional (read: “stupid”) stuff for years, because he figures that if he gets it done that way, he looks like a genius.
Case in point: the evolution of the modern closer, possibly his biggest claim to fame. This leads to $15 million contracts for Ryan Dempster and Eddie Guardado.
Alex R. is absolutely right about Tony La Russa. He’s the Phil Fulmer of baseball.
Yea you are right, we do need pitching more. I just got carried away looking at Tex career numbers.
LaRussa is a jerk and a drunk. I’m pretty sure that about confirms that this is his last year in St. Louis.
I’ll give you jerk but a drunk??
His Blood Alcohol was 0.093 percent. Go drink two beers at dinner and drive home an hour later, thats what yours would be also.
172,
Respectfully disagree. I’m still in college and have put in way more time than that.
From DOB-
By the way, I’m told the Braves actually have a pretty significant amount they can add to payroll if they want to make a move or two before the deadline. Between what they’re going to get on Hampton insurance and, apparently, what Liberty is going to add to current payroll. Don’t know what the amount is, but I really do think they can add a big-salaried player before the deadline, if they want to.
C’mon, now. The drunk talk is a little much. It’s like the wife-beater stuff I always hear about Bobby. The guys made mistakes, like we all do. It’s over. Move on.
Speaking of mistakes, I hear LaRussa’s excuse & kinda understand it; however, I reject it. You gotta have Pujols hit there. The moment was begging for it.
I don’t really care about the implications of the home-field advantage. I’m just talking about the beauty of the game-on-the-line confrontation. Who cares if your pitcher has to bat in the 10th? If you get there, deal with it. It’s the all-star game, not the 7th game of the NLDS.
I’m not a patented LaRussa hater, although I certainly find him annoying for reasons we all know, but that was a bad job. Sorry.
BTW, .09 BAC is more like 4 beers at dinner, if your dinner was a cobb salad & you weigh 135 pounds.
Two beers at a real dinner for a grown-ass-man is about .04 tops.
My asleep at the wheel shots aren’t designed to make fun of LaRussa’s drunk driving, but more his slightly buzzed sleeping at the wheel.
He had a glass of wine or two and fell asleep at a stop light. He is just an old lady, not a crazed MADD member’s worst nightmare, just a punk, that’s all.
Re: DOB
Who are these high salaried guys we’d go after? Do you think we’d take a shot at Dontrelle if the situation arose? Personally I’d be a bit leary toward getting him, but I thought I’d ask.
So you would rather have a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, James, Carlisle and Davies? And if you would rather have Reyes or Cormier, you should really go see a neurologist.
Well, Nick, if we could just magically have Dontrelle appear on our roster without giving up any prospects, I’m sure Josh wouldn’t mind. The issue is it worth whatever upgrade we’d get to give up Salty, because there’s no way you’re getting the D-Train without giving him up.
Salty should ONLY go for a high minors or low MLB service time starting pitcher. There is one potential trade partner that could do that. The Tigers have loads of high minors / low service time arms(Andrew Miller???) and need a right handed platoon partner (or complete replacement) for Sean Casey to help THIS YEAR and they need a future replacement for Pudge.