I didn’t want to be right about Francoeur, but there should be no surprise that he was terrible in 2006, because he was terrible down the stretch in 2005 after pitchers stopped throwing him strikes, and nobody succeeds for long walking less than once a week. You don’t have to throw Francoeur strikes, of course, because he swings at everything. He walked only 23 times last season, and six of those were intentional. The biggest surprise is that he never swung at any of the intentional balls. I, for one, am tired of watching this. In fact, by the end of the year I stopped watching his at-bats, because I had seen enough.
Bobby, of course, let him start every game. There is no excuse for a starting right fielder to have a .293 on-base percentage (league average was .339) but even less for a team to let him keep doing it. As I mentioned, the league average OBP (adjusted for Turner Field) was .339. Francoeur never bettered .330 in any month. He had a significant platoon advantage — but his OBP against lefties was still only .335. He hit much better at home — getting that OBP up to .340. So at his best, he was mediocre.
Played pretty well defensively; made some errors but I don’t really care about that, except that his errors tended to be whoppers. One of seven as a basestealer. Is still not ready for the big leagues. Will probably play every game again if he doesn’t get hurt.
I for one am not excited to see another full season of Jeff Francouer. The guy stinks so bad, but people don’t see it with the 30 HRs and 100 RBIs.
He finished only 3rd in most outs, behind Juan Pierre (who owns this category) and Jimmy Rollins. For a while I thought he was on pace for a record.
I think he’s like as not to improve. And even a marginal improvement in OBP would be significant. Despite his sub-par OBP, his isolated slugging was still 25 points better than the league. So if his BA improves (likely since his BABIP last year was around 30 points lower than his professional average), he’ll become a league-average hitter very quickly. If that’s combined with even a small improvement in plate discipline, he might even be a little bit above average.
I completely agree that the present version of Jeff Francoeur is below average, but he is still very young, and there’s no reason to think he won’t improve. I don’t think he’ll ever be an MVP. Maybe an all-star when he has a hot first half one year or two, but more likely an average line of .280/.320/.500, which isn’t bad if he’s providing plus defense in RF. And he’s got the power potential for that SLG to be more like .550 or even .600 some years.
His hits were timely. He did have a few walk off home runs.
Oh, and since I’m here….
Over at DOB’s blog, he suggests that the Braves are likely to trade one of Langerhans and Diaz by the start of the season, since they are unlikely to have five players who primarily play the OF on the roster. He seems to believe Langerhans is more likely to be traded and Diaz/Wilson platooned with Diaz batter against RHPs (which he actually did pretty well against last year). A lot of posters in the comments seemed content to ship Langerhans off, while some others wanted to keep him around and give him an every-day position, hoping he will show his true potential.
Personally, I don’t believe trade will be made, and if one is made, it won’t be until the end of Spring Training. I like both Diaz and Langerhans. Since Wilson can get some ABs at 1B and maybe a few in RF (please?), Langy getting some relieving the Andruew and Frenchy (please?) and as a defensive replacement when Diaz/Wilson start, there’s no reason each player can’t get 250-300ABs over the course of the year. And Aybar + Woodward backing up the IF is probably plenty (although I think Aybar/Tony Jr. might have worked as well). The additional advantage of keeping them is that, if Wilson and Andruw walk, we’ll at least have guys with ML experience able to cover the OF, making a trade less crucial, etc.
Anyhow, rather than discuss it over there, I wanted to see what you guys thought. Should we get rid of one of the two young guys? I think they’ve both got excellent potential, and I was really hoping we could see both grow. Then again, if Diaz flops (unlikely IMO; the kid’s got a great minor league track record) or if Langy’s offense really is as poor as he showed last year, whatever trade value they might have had is effectively gone.
Where can someone find the league average offensive stats by position?
Last season you could make the case that Francouer HAD to play because there weren’t any alternatives. However this season, if Bobby wants to put the best 9 out there though you could make a case for Wilson in RF (he has played there before I think) and Diaz in left. The thing that burns me up is that there won’t be a competition for the position. Jeff is the right fielder by proxy. He’ll also get a lot more rope than say Kelly Johnson if he struggles early. I don’t hate the kid. I want him to succeed in a bad way but in his current incarnation he is a net drag on the team. I wonder how long it will take before Bobby realizes that.
I would feel better about his prospects to imporve, if his walk rate had improved in his second year. However, it went down, suggesting either TP and Bobby Cox won’t say anything to him about his pitch selection, or that JF won’t listen.
I kind of think this will sort itself out this year; either JF will be a little more selective (and i think he will, but it may just be the optimist in me) and will do better in all categories because of that, or he will be gone. Really, MLB pitchers aren’t stupid, and they now have a year of data on heaving it a foot outside and watching JF flail away. They will now go 2 feet outside, and see if he is THAT big of a sucker.
This really is TP’s biggest challenge; to turn raw talent and no sense into something productive.
If you have to trade one of them Diaz will bring more in return. Possibly to an AL team that needs a hitter. Langerhans has a more rounded skill set as a player and who knows he may be the CF in 2008. At best maybe a .275/.350/.440 player Langerhans existence is justified by his ability to play all 3 OF positions. Personally I’d like to see him win the LF job outright this season but I don’t see it happening. He won’t get enough PAs to really show anything.
The platoon splits go back to 2005. They show more how bad Francoeur is against righthanders than how good he is against lefthanders. The magnitude of the split is far beyond statistical expectation.
The home / road split is the wierder one. Basically, at home he is around 900 ops for his career and around 600 road. Do you think we can take some loud speakers and card board cut outs on the road to make him think he is in ATL?
Because of Frenchy’s age I am still optimistic about his future. I would have to agree that if there is no marked improvement in his plate discipline this year, then something needs to be done. I don’t think he’s going anywhere anytime soon though. To this day I still don’t understand why any right handed pitcher throws fastballs to Andruw Jones. If you throw curveballs that break a foot off the outside corner, Andruw will swing at it 9 times out of 10. Anyway, my point is that Frenchy may not ever be totally cured, but he can become a whole lot better.
I think he’ll be a lot better in ’07. His walk rate might not go up, but his batting average almost certainly will. His BABIP last year was .285, indicating some bad luck. The good news is his ceiling is Andre Dawson. The bad news is his floor is Juan Encarnacion.
If we have to move Langy let’s get some more pitching for him. I wonder if we could package him and maybe Devine for a #3 starter.
I just looked at Langerhan’s on Baseball Cube. His 2004 at Richmond looks like a positive outlier. He has career 4th outfielder written all over him. So I take it back .275/.350/.440 would be an exceptional season from him.
On Francouer: Just remember those two out RBI’s!
The Hardball Times has a solid article predicting the offensive numbers of 10 players, one of which is Francouer. The average of the three predictors has Jeff at .282/.325/.492 with 25 dingers, and it was consensus that his walks would increase.
Here’s the link
All I’m asking is league average OBP in 2007. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.
I doubt he’ll be league-average in OBP next year. But he’ll be closer than he was this year, and might get there by the time he reaches arbitration.
I can live with those numbers Rob
Just to clarify, 100 RBI’s = good. Lots of power = good. One of the highest averages in the MLB with RISP = good. One of the best arms in the majors and a defensive range that makes the position look easy = good. Yeah lets please send this guy back to the minors and start ryan langerhans in his place.
There is absolutely no way to predict this guy’s career. Clearly, he is never going to be a Bonds-like on base machine so the question is how much he can improve. I’m not necessarily optimistic that guys can become more patient, although as he gets older he should be able to recognize pitches better. But having an aggressive football mentality isn’t necessarily good in baseball. But the Braves have never cared about OBP–which, IMO, is one big reason they have struggled in the playoffs. And Bobby loves the guy apparently.
A .325 OBP still sucks. But I’d take it in a heart beat. The THT article mentioned that his walk rate improved to 7 per month the last 2 months of the season. 42 walks a year. I’d still take that. At 42 walks and some luck with balls in play and he may be considered productive even. Very hit lucky, a championship caliber ballplayer.
Remember back when Andruw was young and couldn’t lay off the slider low and away, and how despite the fact that he put up stellar numbers regardless of the Ks there was this vocal contingent of fans who couldn’t stand him because he struck out to much?
Jeff Francouer is the player those people pretended Andruw Jones was.
Francoeur has great range, the best throwing arm in the majors; he’s going to be in the 25 HR/95-100 RBI range.
So why the hate?
You have to remember, a guy like Frenchy isn’t eating away at payroll, he isn’t a clubhouse cancer – gather enough people around like Francoeur in an organization and you’ll win championships.
No you won’t, because you will have a losing record. A team full of Francoeurs would lose over 100 games.
I can live with those numbers too, Smitty, as long as they won’t be his career bests.
A majority of Francoeur’s walks last year came on 3-0 counts.
link
I’m not sure what this means, just thought it was a cool thing to find.
@22
Wryn, Its not hate. At least for me. But instead extreme consternation. Why does Bobby think that Jeff Francouer is a good enough ballplayer to play him 162 games? The power, the alleged defense all that is cancelled out by the fact that he creates outs at a prodigous rate. For him to be considered ‘good’ he has to hit .290 to .300 using the simple extrapolation of adding 40 points to his BA to get his OBP up to .330 or .340 which is league average.
I have to admit when I watch him play I’m mesmerized by his athleticicm. When he does good stuff its really pretty to watch. But watching him swing at unhittable pitches or run past easy grounders trying to make the spectacular throw is tough.
I’ll reiterate. I’m pulling for this kid. I want him to succeed in a bad way. I don’t even mind him learning in the majors, if he actually tries to learn and if he doesn’t put too much of a drag on what I think will be a contending team.
Six of his walks were intentional, which skews the stats a little when you’re dealing with so few events. I expect that the other six were semi-intentional for the most part. And that he probably struck out a couple times on semi-intentional walks.
The numbers are going to be skewed because of the percentage of IBBs that he had. Also, for those first 10 or so that BRef shows to the non-pro folks, only looked like he actually worked a walk. The other times it looks like they just put him on.
Wow, Mac and I are on the same page. Though I do think 2 were not semi-intentional.
I don’t know Mac, a team of Francoeurs might have a great pitching staff, the kid has a cannon!
Wow. The judge and jury have reached a verdict on this kid after his age 22 season.
Please, people – he has time to improve…a lot. I understand the backlash of you erudite baseball fans against the bovine masses which have undoubtedly overrated Francoeur to this point, but give the kid some time. We all know he should have been in the minors in ’05 and at least most of ’06, but the Braves lack the talent in the outfield to replace him.
Please note that Francoeur improved his isolated discipline in the second half by 28 points, not as much as one would like to see, but it is over a significant number of at bats. If you bring up his BABIP to his career norm, it translates to a .339 OBP in the second half. He may be league average right now with great power and plus defense and great RISP numbers.
I realize the prevailing desire to want everything right now, but please recognize that we are watching a player develop at the Major League level and exercise…dare I say it…patience.
I think it’s funny that many are ready to replace him. I could understand if he was 30 and made12 mil per year, but he’s 22 and making the minimum. Please…Also, are some people serious that they would rather see Diaz as our full time RF? He wasn’t even good enough to play full time for the Royals.
Well the Sports Guys has started his Super Bowl Week long column.
If you look at Dale Murphys First 850 AB’s vs Jeff’s the numbers are comparable. Not saying Jeff is going to be a Murphy But I believe he will be a good player for a long time, Also Andruw’s numbers are similar as well. I think he is going to be above average soon. His make up is good and I think he wants to learn. I think Chipper will have a real impact on the kid and Mac will help him too.
A team full of Francoeurs would suck, but one Francoeur is valuable to a team. Hitting 6th in the order, he doesn’t really need to get on base a whole lot. A power hitter in that spot is a good thing. If he got on base more, he would be great. In the mean time, he is a valuable contributer in his role.
Murphy never had such an extreme aversion to the base on balls- in 1978, he drew 42 walks in 530 AB. And he was 22 during most of his 1979 season, during which he hit 276/ 340/ 469, with 21 HR and 38 BB in 106 games. Francoeur has similar power, but less average and patience.
Murph did spend most of that season at 1B, but moved to the OF (and was outstanding) in 1980. Frenchy is not outstanding, with a range factor per 9 innings below league average.
Just for fun, adjusting Murphy to the 2000 Rockies gives him 525 career HR, 55 in 1987, and 46-48 each season from 1982-85.
Chant: Let him play! Let him play!
Besides, Brian McCann said he would keep hitting fifty points higher to offset the difference, just to keep his boy on the team.
Seriously, Francouer has great tools. His production has more than offset his salary to date. He draws crowds (which can be hard in ATL). He has performed well in clutch situations. He also has shown the ability to make improvements over small stretches.
His downside to me is Preston Wilson. Upside is comparable to Vladimir Guerrero (he does lack the base-stealing ability of each).
It’s probably impossible to replace him now, but I wish he’d gotten a few hundred more PA in AA and AAA. He’s very, very raw.
@31 Parish if we were the Devil Rays, sure let the kid develop in the majors. But we could actually be a championship caliber team this season. If Francouer has a net negative effect on our endevour to get into the playoffs then we should look for an alternative right fielder.
Let’s not forget he had one of the most awesome commercials ever last year. You know, the super cool Delta one?
My cousin works for Delta and actually was part of the crew that filmed the commercial at Turner Field with Francoeur. He swears up and down that on the first take of the shot where he tosses a ball up and hits it out of the park, Jeff actually swung and missed. And everyone laughed for almost 15 minutes. He still has the video on his work computer. I’ve been trying to convince him to put it up on youtube, but he says he could get fired. It would be worth it. Maybe.
But that is a damn good commercial anyways.
Mac, you are right. No way they replace him unless he goes Mondesi on us. Even then he’d have to suck right up to the all star break.
Wow. Never thought I’d find myself agreeing with a fellow named reaganman, but you hit it right on the head, bud. Thumbs up.
Francoeur has fantastic potential and can be useful for us in his current role while he’s busy figuring out how to convert his prodigious tools into All-Star production.
As is, he is a fine #6 hitter, providing power and driving in runs. He was an important component to last year’s #2 NL offense despite the admittedly horrible OBP.
Walks are great, but they only score runs immediately when the bases are loaded. Power is good for run production, which is the name of the offensive game. Unless the #7, #8 and #9 hitters are unusually good at driving in runs, then Jeff probably didn’t cost us a ton as the #6 hitter, yet he was hitting high enough in the order to bring his power into play so we could score.
Yes, I’d love for him to have even just a decent OBP, and I hope to see improvement in that area this year. However, Jeff is a contributor to a winning Braves team and an important part of our future. Sitting him for guys who are pretty much at the peak of their value, or only moderately projectable, would not be wise, and he’s better than any other option for his role on the team.
So, reaganman and I are pro-Frenchy. 😉
I hope some of you can join us.
Besides, I saw Miguel Cabrera knock in the winning run against the Orioles on an intentional ball last year… so maybe it’s not such a bad idea. 😉
I’m pro-Smurph. I generally agree with reaganman and Cary, although I’d much prefer to bat Francoeur 7th and Diaz (or Baldelli :))6th.
The main thing for me is that we have absolutely no one better than Francoeur to play RF. You can talk about Wilson, but 1) he’s absolutely terrible defensively, and 2) I’m not convinced he’d put up better offensive numbers than Francoeur. Langerhans appears to be the only other option…no, thanks.
Speaking of Wilson…I like his signing less and less with each passing day. When I thought he was being brought in to play 1B against lefties, I thought it was brilliant. Now that it appears he’s set to take away a younger, cheaper player’s job — and that Thorman will be playing everyday — it seems like another $2 million has been spent foolishly. I’m very frustrated with this situation.
True. We are not the Devil Rays. But we are also not the Yankees. Putting this guy on the field for $394,000 is a good call for the Braves. The other realistic options are already on our 40-man roster. Which of these players would you replace Francoeur with?
As long as Frenchy improves offensively & never bats above 6th in the order, I can deal with him. He is infuriating, the way he gives up ABs.
But…I’m not one to totally discount the RBIs or the success in GW situations. Those are real runs and those are real successes in tough situations. I agree that they’re overrated to a degree—IMO, he should have more RBI—but I don’t discount them entirely.
For now, my take on Frenchy remains: He’s one of the weirdest players I’ve ever seen play on a consistent basis. And he has absolutely no room to get worse.
The real difference of opinion is y’all say that Francouer helps the team. I ( and others ) think that his negatives out weigh the positives thus he is a drag on the team. A negative net effect on the ability of the team to win.
Wilson has a better track record, Langerhans won’t help you but he may not hurt you either. Either can play right field.
That video is (or was) up on youtube, Josh.
I’m pro-Francoeur, but also agree with Mac 100% in that he’s extremely raw. To watch him swing at some of the balls he did last year was infuriating. You only hope the game slows down a bit for him and he calms down out there.
BTW its not the salary. Its the player helping the team to win. Because Francouer looks good when he is good and he puts up some good glamour numbers the perception is that he is helping the team win. Right field is not where you hide a minus bat and a defender.
Johnny, are you arguing that the salary doesn’t matter?
@18
100+ RBIs does not mean that you have had a good season, it just means that you got a huge amount of RBI opportunities. Because of the Braves’ high offensive output by everyone in front of him, there were plenty of people on base for Frenchy to knock in.
I don’t think that lgAVG OBP is too much to ask because I’m certain that everyone around Francoeur and Jeff himself knows that this isn’t the best he can do. But if this does continue to be a recurring problem… yeah, I don’t want to think about that.
You know your team’s offense is good when the person you complain about the most hit 29 homeruns and over 100 RBIs.
And Francoeur ain’t going anywhere.
It’s worth mentioning that while Francoeur was below league-average in OPS last year, he was certainly well above replacement level. So from that perspective, he definitely was a “plus”.
The real question with Frenchy is whether he would have benefited the Braves more by spending two more years in the minors with, say, Ryan Langerhans in RF and Thorman/Diaz in LF last year. The difference here is the Braves get to keep him while he’s cheap for two years longer and is (hopefully) more refined. The way they did it, they got his production sooner. The other way, they would have had to wait, but would have likely gotten better production over the 6 years they have him under control.
mraver, that’s true but I think the Braves were concerned with keeping the streak alive. By calling up Francoeur in the middle of 2005 the Braves salvaged the streak. Its short sighted but sometimes you have to be a little short sighted. Hopefully Francoeur matures this year. I don’t expect very many walks, but he will likely see the ball better and make more contact as he gains more experience.
There is absolutely no reason to play Craig Wilson in RF. Francoeur, despite the occasional mishap, is a better fielder. And they have the same platoon split. Why can’t we just play Wilson at first against LHP and be done with it? Why is that evidently going to be so hard to just do?
For Mac,
A team of 2006 Francoeur’s would have a bottom tier (but not bottom) offense. Francoeur’s 2006 OPS was .742 trailed by (in NL) Chicago and Houston at .741 and Pittsburgh at .723. Assuming moderately above average defense and average pitching, the “all Frncoeur 2005” team would be about a 90 loss team.
A team of “career average Francoeurs” would be upper tier. Phillies at .794 Braves .795 (a few more in between) Francoeur at .782.
When SLG goes up, OBP can go down. And, beyond the conventional way of looking at things, and according to the most modern regression analysis, the single position in the lineup in which concessions in OBP are o.k if they are replaced by increases in SLG it is , ta da, position 6.
Bottom line, the kid is 22. He will come a lot closer to his ceiong of Andre Dawson than to his floor of Juan Encarnacion. But, you are coorect that the 2006 version doesn’t help the team any more than Ryan Langerhans.
I am amazed at how much of an impact the first month of a major league career can have on people’s perception of a player.
For his first month he was unbelievable, after that (when pitchers stopped throwing him strikes), he hits .250 for the next year and a half….but people still treat him like the Frenchy they saw at first….amazing.
I think for perspective we need to understand that it’s not realistic that any team is going to expect to have 8 starters above average offensively. Every team is going to be starting somebody (or somebodies) who will drag them down, if that’s the definition.
I would be interested to see how Jeff stacks up against, for example, other #7 hitters.
Yes, you want more from your right fielder, and yes, if he doesn’t change, Jeff may very well play himself out of the majors, if pitchers continue to wise up. But the Braves have great offensive advantages at other positions, i.e. CF, 3B, C, SS, and I think it’s overboard to say that he was “horrible” at the role we needed him to play. His slugging % was slightly above average, which is more relevant to his value at the bottom of the order than is OBP.
Hopefully we won’t need him any higher that 7th, and hopefully he improves, as players his age often do.
It’s interesting to me our 6, 7, and 8 hitters will probably be RF, LF, and 1B, usually your top offensive positions.
OPS is a gigantic oversimplification. I wish I could find Offensive Winning Percentages but ESPN and SI aren’t providing them anymore. Anyway, I am certain that a team with a .290 OBP would have an historically bad offense compared to the present era.
I used to hear that a better combination for OPS was (1.27xOBP) + SLG, implying that OBP is 27 percent more important. It must not have caught on in the wake of VORP and EqA and the rest — I never see it cited. But I liked that it at least attempted to assign weight to stats we can easily get our hands on.
Okay, I was wrong and Cliff was right. My calculation of OWP (using B-R’s version of Runs Created) gives Francoeur’s as .463, which is still woefully inadequate for a right fielder but not at a 100-loss rate. Actually, it would be 75-87. This is probably somewhat high because Francoeur’s such an extreme case, and because the older, “basic”, RC formula B-R uses gives less weight to OBP than later formulas — but I’m sure it’s not much lower than .450.
I think the reason one should not totally discount Francoeur’s first month is that it shows us what is possible if he forces pitchers to throw him strikes.
Why do so many think that Francoeur will not improve when his statistics show an upward progression already? Mac, you are citing a .290 OBP to prove your point, while Francoeur was a .295 last year and a .308 OBP after the break. All that with being 30 points unlucky on BABIP. That is looking at him as pessimistically as possible.
Time, people. Patience.
this is getting too complicated for me….bottom line
Does Francoeur help us? Yes
Is he hurting us? Yes
Is he killing us? Absolutely Not
The kid is 22, makes $340K, plays good defense, power hitter behind McCann, he just struggles at plate discipline…it will come, give him time
OPS is a gigantic oversimplification? OBP measures only one thing. What percentage does that batter reach base safely. Each successive base is worth more than the last (3rd to home is most obviously the most important, 2nd to 3rd allows somebody to score on an out, 1st to second allows most runners to score on a single). The least important base is the first base. But even assuming each base is equal, OBP is much more of a simplification of offense than OPS.
Why, EVERY home run scores at least 1 run. Recently HardBall times has run a series and determined that home run hitting teams (total season run expectancy equal) are less likely to be shut out than singles and walks team. MOST baserunners score when the guy behind them doubles.
Contrast that to the walk. With runners 2nd and 3rd and two out, after a walk you are exactly where you were before. Bases loaded walk scores one run. Bases loaded double scores 3 runs AND puts the batter at second.
Basically OPS counts all of the bases that a hitter can generate for himself and weights the hits slightly higher than the walks (the “double dip of the first base of each hit counting twice) which is consistent with the higher potential to move other base runners.
If almost all of the big statheads that actually know how to run these formulas keep coming back to OPS as the best indicator of scoring, (and a better one than OBP alone) don’t you think there is something to it?
Nobody who has studied the issue thinks that OPS is the best way to measure offensive production. It’s only the simplest measure that takes in all the at-bat events. Any relatively sophisticated measure gives more weight to the on-base side.
If you look in the archives, you’ll find that I very rarely use OPS. I use OPS+ quite a bit because it’s context-adjusted and that’s been hard to find until recently, but I don’t like any “great statistic” and OPS is the worst of them.
Mac, I think his point is that OBP, the main strike against Francoeur, is more of an oversimplification than OPS which is evident in their calculations and explained well in Cliffe’s post.
Wow, the emotions Frenchy brings out are impressive. I too wish he had another year or two in the minors, i hope he can improves his averages but I do not hold out a lot of hope, but I will give him time, I will probably regret that around the all-star break.
Has anyone ever compared the first year-plus of Frenchy to the first couple of years of Dale Murphy. I haven’t. But with all this talk about a young guy who doesn’t get on base a lot, strikes out more than his fair share, and hits for some power, kinda reminds me of someone else.
According to Stats.com, the average #6 hitter in the National League batted 268/ 333/ 435, and the average RF 267/ 342/ 448. So Frenchy’s average and power are, either judging by lineup or defensive slot, pedestrian. (Frenchy batted much better in the 5 slot for some reason- 305/ 326/ 586, a level where the lack of plate discipline can be forgiven- but as a #6, he was an awful 245/ 281/ 403.)
http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/lgprofile.asp?lg=02&yr=Q shows the league averages under various situations.
One more notable split for Frenchy- he hit over half his home runs during the 50 day games he played, when he hit 279/ 291/ 587. At night, he hit 251/ 294/ 384, which ain’t cutting it. Maybe a day/ night platoon with Langerhans, who hit better at night, would be in order.
It’s true, we don’t have another good OF prospect in the high levels of the system. Gregor Blanco, who substitutes grossly inadequate power for the inability to keep from swinging at the rosin bag, is as close as we come. But a Diaz/ AJones/ Langerhans OF would be above average for 2007, not that it will happen.
well said csg…Time!
In other stories, chuck james seems to think the braves have a world series contending team this year. chuck was visiting a local customized car dealer in gadsden, al. (he is apparently buying some kind of fancy schmancy sports car) and was overheard making a prediction that the braves are going to win the nl championship this year. i hope you are right, chucky!
I’m in the Pro-Frenchy camp. I don’t think its great that he swings a lot, but so did Vladimir Guererro. Because Jeff has Chipper, Andruw, and Brian ahead of him, he’s a little more free to swing the bat. If those guys are on base (which they were a lot), he’s going to get a lot of pitches to hit, its as simple as that.
I’m in the neutral corner on Frenchy. I see where he both helps and hurts us, but my expectations last year just weren’t that high. I guess after starting the year in 2005 with Brian Jordan and Raul Mondesi in the outfield, I’ve lowered my expectations. Frenchy seems to be a good guy and he seems to have decent character and a love for the game. I’m pulling for him to succeed and frankly I don’t see anyone else that is even a remote option. I’m pretty sure that I’ll no longer be neutral by the end of the year, so here’s hoping that we see an upward trend and Frenchy silences some of his critics.
Francoeur is a great bet to improve this season. But all due respect, nobody compares to Guererro. I can see why you’d want to compare them — they’re both rangy, free-swinging right fielders with power. In fact, on defense I think they’re very comparable.
But Guererro can turn any pitch into a wicked line drive, I believe because he can make the split-second adjustment once the pitch is thrown. Francoeur doesn’t show that ability — he seems to decide what he’s going to do before the pitch is thrown, which is why you see so many popups to the second baseman. What Guererro does, you can’t teach, and Francoeur can’t learn. That’s why I say Andre Dawson is a better comparison.
The Hawk would not be a bad outcome at all, though even he walked more than Francoeur (at a time when walks were less plentiful than they are now). I still dread the Tony Armas Sr. outcome, though Armas was 26 before he was as good as Francoeur is now.
Mac,
That’s a good sign, isn’t it?
…
……. isn’t it? XD
I’d take Andre Dawson.
Yeah, so would I, but we’ll just have to wait and see for a while with that one.
Apparently the MLB Extra Innings deal with DirecTV is official, and because of the back-lash, they still could back out. Here’s hoping they do. I really think that could really hurt baseball badly.
It’s NOT official. My bad. I really need to preview my posts more often.
Mac, you wanna edit that? Not waste people’s time after they reading over it a couple times and it not making sense is a nice thing.
would you offer Sosa a $500K minor league deal and an invite to spring training to compete for LF and a PH role?
No, I’ve seen enough Sosas on the Braves. Jorge could probably outhit Sammy anyway.
Yes, actually, I would. The media circus doesn’t really follow him around anymore since he spent one year “in exile”.
So this dinner thing I attended the other night was a fundraiser for The Omar Moreno Foundacion, which is sort of like a little league for underprivileged boys in Panama. Omar is sort of a hero here in Panama.
They had all the diplomatic types here—the U.S. Ambassador, etc—food, drink, the works. They had tons of Latin American athletes: baseball, Tony Perez, Elias Sosa, Carlos Lee (who was bursting out of his suit), Olmedo Saenz, Jose Cruz (Bernie and Mariano were no-shows); boxers, incl. longtime featherweight champ Eusebio Pedroza; an Olympic swimmer who attended Auburn; jockey Laffit Pincay; musician Ruben Blades; I’m sure I’m forgetting someone.
I can’t tell you how swell everyone was at the event. Had some decent conversations with Sosa, Saenz, Cruz and Perez. Sosa and the boxer Pedroza were at my table so I got the most quality time with them.
Saenz was at the table just behind me and I told him that I was at the ALDS Game 4 at Yankee Stadium in 2000 when, for Oakland, he hit a 3-run HR in the first inning. In the middle of the story, he excitedly interrupts, “It was off Clemens!”
And we both laughed because he was obviously so happy that somebody remembered. BTW, it was a bomb.
I wouldn’t. We can get comparable production from any 3rd-tier free agent.
Looking at the Free Agent Tracker on ESPN, Jeromy Burnitz, Steve Finley, Todd Hollandsworth, Ricky Ledee, Shannon Stewart, Bernie Williams, and Eric Young are all available OFs (not including minor league FAs). I wouldn’t pick Sosa ahead of any of them.
I with Reaganman, Cary and UBubba on this one: sure, I wish that Frenchy had 100 or more extra games in the minors; sure, he is ‘very raw’; sure, we would have all liked to see more progress with plate discipline, but all told he is an asset. I think Bobby sees that he brings a lot to the club, but more important he still have a high ceiling. Even if he turns into the reincarnation of Tony Armas Sr. at the price he is currently being paid Francoeur is a bargain.
More important, obviously, he has a chance to become a much better player. I think it is too early to believe that he has hit a plateau and will get no better.
Just for the fun of it: a team of Francoeurs might score 664 runs (which woudl rank last in the league)we would expect them to hit 232 HRs (which would lead the league). Francoeur, then is an engima and our frustration with his progress probably says more about us than it does about him.
Let him play and hope for the best…
Francoeur hit better in the 5 hole because that’s where Bobby put him when we faced lefties (because he platooned McCann for some odd reason).
Ububba, Saenz is on my Roto team and was the best bargain in the draft at $1.
Awesome Olmedo Saenz story!
Excuse me? You dare write that about Francoeur? I think y’all need to take a step back and look at the stats again AND Francoeur’s perfomance. There is more to baseball than whats on the paper–there are very few baseball players that look good on paper, like A-rod. Did any of you bother to see that through the whole entire 2006 season, Francouer was in the top five in the league for 2-out RBI’s? He’s the kind of player that I would want up there in a clutch situation. He has a great attitude, which adds to the team, and he plays aggressively and with a passion you rarely see in baseball anymore. More and more players are trying to be like Barry Bonds–an exclusive super star who’s stats count more than team victories. Francoeur is everything a baseball player should be–aggressive, positive, and a team player. I suggest y’all go on google and watch Francoeur’s 100th RBI interview (he became the youngest in Braves’ history to reach that point) He clearly states that his success was mostly due to his teammates. I’d like to hear Bonds say that. Francoeur represents everything that baseball SHOULD be about and he is one of the main reasons I still support major league baseball.