I come to bury Horacio Ramirez, not to praise him. Because, come on, there really wasn’t much to praise. Thanks, Bill!
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I come to bury Horacio Ramirez, not to praise him. Because, come on, there really wasn’t much to praise. Thanks, Bill!
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
Well, Mac, I’m sure you are aware that Marc Antony made that statement ironically; he actually was there to praise Caesar. Does this mean you actually are praising Horacio.
No, I’m not… OR AM I????
No, I’m not.
Mac,
It’s okay to be a bit ambivilent at times like these. I mean, after all, there is the possibility that Ho-Ram will go to the Great Northwest and go 27-5 for 10 years in a row, becoming the one Atlanta Brave that got away…
But, it’s not that likely.
Ideally, however, Soriano would pitch lights out for us and Ho-Ram would do the same for them making this a true win-win.
I think my ambivalent feelings about HoRam are in line with many here. But I will say this: Of all the Braves games I attended last year, The Good Horacio gave me the most outstanding performance—at Yankee Stadium this past June 27 (8 IP, 7 H , 3 K, 1 BB, 0 ER). Atl 5, NYY 2.
If not for him, we get swept in the Bronx. Of course, if not for Jorge Sosa, we win 2 of 3, but that’s revisiting a nightmare only remedied by hard liquor and barbiturates…
Anyway, it was one of those kinds of nights that came so often during the Braves’ great run, where you get a well-pitched game in a packed New York stadium & everyone leaves quietly grumbling on the way out. A beautiful thing.
I had friends from Georgia visiting, we went to a favorite Irish pub afterward, many pints downed, many stories told. HoRam got that party started right.
I’m not exactly ambivalent, in that I think it was a great trade. But Horacio did have the second-longest tenure with the Braves of any active pitcher, and he did have a lot of good games. He had a lot of bad games, too. He was that kind of pitcher. I think that he can be successful in Seattle, more than his detractors up there realize, because his biggest problem most of his career has been home runs.
My fondest HoRam memory–other than him being traded for Soriano:
First game of the double header in July of last season (Francoeur would debut later that night), he pitched a complete game 3-hitter to beat Prior and the Cubbies. He was pretty darn tough that day.
Injuries aside, do you think the departures of Maddux and Glavine had a negative effect on Horacio’s development?
Nah, he just doesn’t have a strikeout pitch. My memories of Horacio are largely of him trying to throw a pitch low and outside over and over with two strikes and never getting the swing and miss.
Transaction Oracle: “Apparently, Buzzie’s Other Idiot Son was getting upset that the Angels and Astros were hogging all the stupid.”
Keith Woolner at Baseball Prospectus revealed his team outfield arms rankings. It was based on number of runners allowed to go from second-to-home on a single, and was a group ranking using the most common set of outfielders for each team. Average was about 60%. Langy-Andruw-Frenchy allowed 61 of 110 to score, or 55%.
Worst in the NL was Bonds-Finley-Winn, with 36/49 (73.5%). Worst in the AL? Baldelli-Crawford-Mayor of Richmond, with 26-32 (81.3%).
Really like this trade, though for different reasons.
Soriano is a flyball pitcher with excellent K rates. Precisely the kind of pitcher we should be targeting, as our infield defence sucks!
HoRam is a league average pitcher, and he will continue to be that in Seattle, so they don’t lose on this trade as so many have been claiming. The value of a pitcher who can put up 150+ innings of 100 ERA+ is crazy in this market, see Gil Meche. Horam had no future with the Braves though, and for that reason alone, getting a return back on him is good! Also we are less likely to see Yates in a close game in the 8th inning now 🙂
And people who are giving up on Davies so early, pfffffft!
Davies has a minor league track record incredibly consistent with his short major league one. Pfffft.
Major Leagues
151 ip, 6.38 ERA, 11.21 H/9, 1.31 HR/9, 4.89 BB/9 , 6.74 K/9
Minor Leagues
528 ip, 2.89 ERA, 7.5 H/9, .56 HR/9, 3.20 BB/9, 8.97 K/9
I don’t see how you see that as consistent. there is ridiculous spike in hits and homers, which no set of minor league equivalencies predict. a bit more of his “trusting his stuff”, and we will have a very good young pitcher on our hands.
Fly ball ratio, lots of HR. Don’t get me wrong, he might be a good pitcher with good stuff. He just needs Shea or Dodger Stadium to take away some of the bite of the fly ball tendency.
Mark Bowman:
To stay within that budget, the club needs to make a decision regarding Marcus Giles, who will make close to $6 million next year. The Braves’ attempts to trade him have been unsuccessful and there’s a belief they may not tender him a contract.
David O’Brien says basically the same thing, that Marcus Giles will either be traded or non-tendered. The deadline is Tuesday, December 12, I think.
not true entirely. He didn’t give up that many flyballs. In his major league career, he gets about 35% GBs. he had an absurd HR/FB rate alst year.
In comparison, James had a GB rate of 27%. HR/FB rate of 12.7 ( compared to almost 19 for Davies ). 12.7% is about average. Which is why I think james might not regress, and Davies will improve
This is the first I’ve seen about HR/FB rate — interesting notion. Still, Godot, insofar as GB% I think you know you’re comparing Davies to someone, in James, who has historically low GB%. A 35% GB rate is still pretty darned low.
But I basically agree that we can’t say that Davies won’t be successful pitching in Atlanta, and the inflated HR/FB idea, along with his success in the minors, causes me to think that a healthy Davies is worth another shot.
james vs davies:
davies doesn’t have a pitch as good as james’ changeup. davies’ fb is better than james’ fb but neither is really very good. davies has worse command than james.
also, i’d say davies made it clear starting when he got called up to AA in 2004 that he was going to give up tons of HR whenever he made the bigs, so i wouldn’t expect that to go away. i’m somewhat concerned with both of their disappearing k rates, actually.
Why are the Braves so big on Davies? They still seem to think he’s a future #1 or #2 starter.
ESPN says the Giants signed Barry Bonds to a 1YR/16M contract, if anyone cares.
That was the anti-climax of all anti-climaxes.
Davies has a pretty good curve, but he wasn’t establishing his fastball enough for it to be a threat.
This is what puzzles me. When Davies came up, I heard he was a 3 pitch guy, with a above average fb, good change up and curve! I watched most of his starts, and i still havent seen a changeup from him. Did I just read the wrong article, or is it something he has shelved for the present?
yeah, Bonds to Giants is boring.
Another thought about Bonds. If he wants to win a world series, and he says he does, before he retires…why is he signing ridiculous contracts with teams that has gotten significantly worse from last years team that failed to make the playoffs? I guess he needs the money to pay the lawyers.
Jeff K. from previous thread. I guess I can’t let it go.
‘1) The attraction of a Baldelli is not his comparison to Giles’ offensive statistics. The trade rumors I’ve seen (ignore for the moment whether these rumors are merely insane rantings) would have either Salty/Davies or Salty/James going to TB. TB apparently doesn’t want Giles and certainly doesn’t need him.’
I never said that Baldelli’s attraction was his offensive stats compared to Giles. I said that y’all want him because he is fast and steals bases. So what? My main point was that the Braves scored the second most runs in the NL and didn’t have a lick of speed. The point about Giles is that (at least for the next couple of days) we have more than Baldelli’s offense already in the form of Giles.
2) But when you do compare their primary stats, they compare quite favorably:
You’ve got to be kidding me.
An OUTFIELDER with a career .289 .329 .451 against a
MIDDLE INFIELDER with a career .285 .361 .448 ????? Its not even close. Baldelli’s poor career OBP (pretty important when your a lead off hitter) alone makes him less valuable. A .329 OBP had better be tied to a .500 slg or better if your a corner outfielder. Further more Baldelli is batting average heavy in his offensive value. All it takes is a hit unlucky year (poor BABIP) and he quickly becomes below average. I swear if you point out his ‘breakout’ 2006…..shit never mind but it was ONLY 92 games.
Your points 3 and 4…. Uh Ok. They don’t have much to do with my original post.
Look Baldelli isn’t a bad player. But he isn’t good enough to lust after. And most certainly isn’t good enough to trade any semblance of pitching for especially in this market.
No, he just wants that homerun record. Period. End of story.
Well, there goes Aaron’s HR record. I held out being a Bonds fan longer than most non-Giants fans probably did — it’s beyond obvious that he’s been the best player anyone has ever seen — but I just couldn’t sustain it. The clincher was actually going to a game at PacBell last season, and witnessing the eerie reception he gets there. No boos, a fair amount of cheers, and a great deal of apprehensive silence.
Actually, “cheers” isn’t even the right word. The fans in the right field bleachers stomped their feet, but didn’t really vocalize much. It seemed to me that they were as conflicted as a well-meaning home crowd could be.
I normally don’t participate in schadenfreude, but I would make an exception if something should happen and Bonds is unable to break the record. Although it really doesn’t matter, he will never, ever, ever be the home run champ in my eyes.
Barry isn’t half the player or person that Hank is and was
That’s a nice sentiment, and I agree with you as far as “person” goes, but the only hitters in Bonds’ league in history are Babe and the Splinter.
Rodriguez to Bama – thoughts aside from “Will we now have houndstooth sombreros?”
Classy, Wryn. Really. (Sheesh.)
I got that from a Bama board somewhere where a Bama fan suggested actually making them.
I just don’t understand all the talks about non-tendered Marcus. If the Braves thought about non-tendering Marcus as an option, the salary saved should be enough to sign Tommy considering the Braves have some monies to spend this offseason. Since Tommy wasn’t sign, I think there is an option that the Braves may choose to keep Marcus for the final year if there is no trade market for him.
My part-time job now:
http://photos-093.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v15/47/23/7005249/n7005249_30243093_5318.jpg
If we keep Giles it just means another year of “I’m not comfortable being a leadoff hitter” talk from him. Which will be just an excuse for his declining production. He peaked in 2003 and if we can get remotely similar production for a lot less money now, by ditching him, or trading for some random-but-genuine-has-potential prospect, we should. I’m sorry, but I’m just over the guy. That said, if we keep him I won’t cry. I just think there are better options.
Besides, he’s going to hurt someone with his helmet slapping one of these days, lol.
Wryn,
Ouch… At least you are not wearing a big chicken suit, to look on the bright side.
/War Santa!!!
// (sorry)
I would rather the Braves trade Giles as well. I am little surprised that JS has not yet found a taker, but after the Soriano deal I am more than content to watch the Braves take their time on this one.
Since the Mariners also wanted Sean White, they might be worth another phone call…
urlhix, Chipper always said that he did not prefer playing in OF AND batting cleanup; Smoltzie always complained about wanting to be a starter. Why Marcus can’t complain? I can never understand why some of us complains about his whining when our other two stars whined about their roles in previous years. Chipper’s production did drop in the years when he played in the OF and batted fourth behind Drew. I do believe some players play better at specific spot in the batting order. Why can’t Renteria be the leadoff hitter? Why does Edger prefer batting second?
Yes, he had a “bad” year offensively for his standard in a year when the team didn’t make the playoff. However, he has been hurt the whole year, and he is our best defensive infielder.
Let me make it clear though, I agree the Braves should trade Marcus and play Aybar at second base next season. I just don’t understand why there are so much underseved hatred on Marcus.
Stephen, considering the salary, the injury history, and this being his free agent year, I am not surprised by the lack of interest in Marcus.
DFAing Marcus would be stupid, I hope this is not an option the Braves are considering.
Are people forgeting that Soriano had two consecutive injury plaugued seasons in 04′ and 05′? Don’t get me wrong, I think Shuerholtz has managed to pull another out of his behind, but I don’t think this deal is as cut and dry as people are making it sound to be. I mean, Soriano hasn’t even pitched more 60IP in a season! He could very well be the next walking wounded pitcher this organization brings in.
sansho1;
I saw Willie Mays, so I can’t quite concede your point about Bonds.
But I do have to say that no other person’s apearance in a lineup has had a much effect as Bonds. It’s not uncommon for teams to decide not to pitch to a guy for a game or a series.
But teams walked Bonds for, what, about three seasons there?
Sansho, my thoughts on Bonds mirror yours exactly.
Wow Wrynn, you look like Santa on crank…a little too skinny
I understand that we have no money to spend with the increases others are receiving and having to pay Hampton (since insurance won’t this year). However, to just let Marcus go for nothing seems crazy. I find it hard to believe that no one want him. Even if it is just for a prospect.
@ 25 – You should have let it go. To correct the record, to the extent a blog is a record:
In your earlier post you do compare Baldelli’s offensive production to that of Giles and others, albeit in a not overly insightful way. My point 2 compares those players’s primary offensive statistics – not Baldelli to other OF or LF. You direct snide comments at those (including me) who earlier said that Baldelli might be a good leadoff guy for the Braves — hence my point 3 showing that he, in fact, has been a good leadoff hitter, incredibly better than Giles.
As to your conclusion about the inadequate sample size, I’m not a statistician, but my wife is. I’ll ask her if an n of nearly 200 ABs is a statistically defensible sample. Get back to you.
I don’t think it’s automatic that Bonds gets the record. He’s missed a lot of time the last couple of years, and at his age anything could happen. Probably re-signing in SF and having to play the field is the best thing that could have happened if you’re a Hank Aaron fan.
It will be a sad day when Bonds breaks the record. I’m not even much of a “record” fan, but to let someone of Bonds’ personality and character … ugh.
I agree with both points made–it is not inevitable that Bonds breaks the record, but a very sad day if he does.
We ought to be able to get at least a prospect for Giles…
In other matters, did anybody notice that the Royals are now flush with enough cash to give Meche more money than Gary Matthews Jr.:
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061207&content_id=1753848&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp
Hudson and Hampton are looking like better investments by the day…
Hudson’s and Hampton’s contracts are looking more and more attractive. Too bad the Braves’ payroll budget isn’t increasing concomitantly with the market price for pitchers.
I agree that Bonds is an ugly character and, as good as he is, it takes the fun out of watching. Normally, I enjoy seeing guys do great things, but not him. On the other hand, the two guys with the most hits are Pete Rose and Ty Cobb, two of the most vile characters in baseball history, especially Cobb).
I don’t understand either the bashing of Giles. Yes, his production has declined over the last couple of years, but I think he is still a pretty good hitter and very solid second baseman. And, irrational or not, his hitting seemed to pick up when they moved him out of the leadoff role. I am surprised at the lack of interest in him (maybe teams are counting on the Braves letting him go), but non-tendering just seems a total waste. Granted, the Braves payroll is tight, but things are really bad if you are non-tendering players of Giles’ caliber.
Jeff K. what the hell. I give.
But….
I did compare Baldelli to Giles. to point out that Baldelli does not give us any more offensive production than Giles. When you said that they were comparable my (I admit) snarky reply was to point out that an offensively good middle infielder is more valuable than an OBP/SLG challenged outfielder.
But shoot its not worth the electrons debating over what is in essence a difference of opinon.
Don’t you think if the Braves non-tender Giles that it will cost another team more than 6 mil per year to sign him?
That is why I can’t believe that we won’t get something for him. Unless there is literally no team that want him.
I thought as a free agent he signs for whatever he can get. I’ve seen where teams will agree with an arb eligible to non tender him then resign him for less than what the arb award would have been. Or even same salary or a pay cut.
Yeah, I am just thinking that with the current market Giles would get more than 6 mil. Maybe I’m wrong, I don’t know.
Those are good points; I hadn’t thought about the fact that he might get more as a free agent. It doesn’t make sense unless teams think his performance is really about to fall off the map.
Shouldnt we be able to send him to Boston?
Don’t you think if the Braves non-tender Giles that it will cost another team more than 6 mil per year to sign him?
That is why I can’t believe that we won’t get something for him. Unless there is literally no team that want him.
Why trade prospects _and_ spend 5-6 mil when you can wait until Wednesday and just spend 5-6 mil? This assumes you’re San Diego, where he will sign.
“Yes, he had a “bad” year offensively for his standard in a year when the team didn’t make the playoff. However, he has been hurt the whole year, and he is our best defensive infielder.”
I think it’s quite sad that I have to agree with you that Marcus just might be our best defensive infielder.
Regardless though, people keep referring to Baldelli as a leadoff hitter. HE IS NOT A LEADOFF HITTER! So give it up. And the thing that speed at the top of the lineup gives you is the ability to play small ball. Which is why we scored the second most runs, but were quite far away from having the second-best record.
I just think it is amazing that we got a potential ace reliever for our least attractive trading commodity
Off topic,
Damn you Willie Parker…maybe if you could’ve done this a couple weeks ago I wouldn’t be sitting at home for the Playoffs in the Journal League…
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=261207023
From ESPN…a breakdown of the winter meetings
Atlanta Braves
————–
WHAT’S DONE: The Braves made their biggest offseason move to
date on Wednesday, sending starter Horacio Ramirez to Seattle
for much-needed bullpen help in the form of righthander Rafael
Soriano. They also have explored a deal for Pittsburgh closer
Mike Gonzalez and other lefthanded relievers.
WHAT’S LEFT: Atlanta does need another arm in the bullpen, and
the team appears willing to trade either first baseman Adam
LaRoche or second baseman Marcus Giles to get it. The Braves
also might want to add another starter as insurance for Mike
Hampton (returning from injury) and Chuck James and Kyle Davies
(inexperienced).
WHAT’S COOKING: The Braves are more likely to trade LaRoche than
Giles, not necessarily because he is better, but more so
because there is more of a demand for first basemen.
kc,
I don’t hate Giles, and my apologies if it came off that way. And he certainly is free to complain all he wants. It just gets on my nerves constantly hearing about it from the press, that’s all. As it did with Chipper, who, as I’ve said in the past, I’ve never been a “big fan” of anyway. Love the way he plays, but his personality, meh. But that’s just me, your mileage may vary. Smoltz talking about wanting to start never bothered me because it was something I was interested in seeing. If Giles ends up back on the squad next year I’ll root for him on the field, but all I meant was I hope we can find a better option.
Definitely urlhix, there is no doubt the Braves should trade Marcus. It is just surprising that there has been little interest in him considering $5M is really nothing in today’s market!!!
we need LaRoche to stay, he’ll be even more valuable to us once Druw is gone. Can we not send Thorman/Langy or Thorman/Davies anywhere for a decent lefty arm.
sorry that was suppose to be Thorman/Diaz not Davies
Which is why we scored the second most runs, but were quite far away from having the second-best record.
Um, no. The descrepancy between second most runs and not-second best record is due to horrendouse pitching and defense. We scored plenty of runs, with or without small-ball. We just didn’t prevent enough.
Which is why we scored the second most runs, but were quite far away from having the second-best record.
I thought this was sarcasm — otherwise I don’t understand.
How would everyone feel if we went after Miguel Batista for that last starter spot??
From MLB.com
“Batista has been offered a three-year, $24 million contract by St. Louis, FOXSports.com reported. The Royals are also making a strong push for Batista as a starter. Sources indicate the Royals made the higher bid, but it’s uncertain whether they are willing to go much higher, reports the Kansas City Star. The Mets and Braves are regarded as strong suitors for Batista”
well we cant compete with that offer
nor should we
I’m not sure if anyone saw this, but It was on lookout landing. It’s a story of JS completely playing Littefield and Bavasi.
http://buccoblog.mlblogs.com/my_weblog/2006/12/winter_meetings.html
This is pretty good too:
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/story/2006/12/7/173611/736#readmore
A bitter Mariners fan made up the correspondences of Bavasi at the Winter Meetings including how JS played him for Soriano (preview: it includes chicken fingers).
Both are pretty amusing. Enjoy.
Man it is like 28 degrees outside.
Oh, by the way, Chris Loftin is the man.
Miguel Batista? Feh.
And Wryn, I recommend to you “The SantaLand Diaries” by David Sedaris. The holiday season will never be the same again.
Ray Durham got 7 mil per year so why wouldn’t Giles get 8 mil from someone? The only thing I can see is that there may not be a lot of bidders.
We aren’t signing Batista at 3 yrs and 24 mil. We don’t even have the money to keep our current roster intact. We are trying to trade Giles and/or LaRoche just so we can stay under 80 mil for 2007. Unless Chipper is restructuring his contract for the 10th time and is willing to play for sunflower seed, we aren’t a player for any meaningful free agents.
Sorry, that last paragraph sounds a little like Debbie Downer. 🙁
time for Chip, to do us a favor, and retire. $10-12 mil is a lot to waste for only 100-110 games. Well then, what needs to be said about Hampton????
Mac, What do you and the rest of the Bama fans on here think about the new coach down there? Just currious
We don’t have a coach yet. Speaking for myself, I won’t stop being nauseous until Rodriguez is officially announced. Everyone’s panicking that he’s backing out and we’ll wind up with Houston Nutt.
Well what do you think of Rodriguez? I think it is a big step for Alabama to move away from the family. I don’t think Nutt will leave Arkansas, not with all the talent that is there.
Nutt would be crazy not to leave Arkansas for Alabama.
Alabama would be crazy to offer Nutt the job.
Well if this guy doesn’t take it, then who will they go after, Sylvester Croom?
Who the heck knows? Grobe, I guess.
I like Rodriguez. I mean, there’s the temptation to keep it in the family, but there simply isn’t anyone qualified in the family except for a few really old guys.
I think the thing is that teams recently would rather hold on to their propects and pay more than trade prospects and pay less. So, the result is that they are trying to wait us out for Giles. They figure right now he’ll cost them some prospects (or a current major league player who’s cheap) and 5/6 million a year. If they wait until we non-tender him, they get to keep their player(s) and will end up paying Giles 8-9 million (or if it’s the Cubs, Giles will get 100 million over 2 3/4 years). My guess is that JS has his hands tied and will have to non-tender Giles if he can’t trade him. And at this point, I be he’d take an older, overweight, and slower (if it was possible) player than Johnny Estrada for Giles (though he would still deny that he ever has done a salary dump).
Johnny Estrada was solid that one season for us
For a 300 hitter with 200 at bats one stand deviation would be square root (200 x (.3) x (.7)= sq Rt (42=6.5
So with one standard deviation the range would be .270 to .330 and with two standard deviation the range would be .240 to .360.
Compare LaRouche first half to second half. That does not take into account injuries ot Attenrion deficit drugs.
Three Names Bama SHOULD Go After:
Jimbo Fisher
Bobby Johnson
Joe Kines
Bobby won’t leave me. I know it.
I think Bama shoudl go after Croom. He and Willy McCovey would dominate the SEC West. Oh wait…
@ 85 – Thanks for that, but in 2006 Baldelli was a .339/.368/.650/1.018 hitter in 182 ABs as #1 hitter. He was .302/.339/.533/.872 in 364 ABs overall. The underlying question is the adequacy of the sample size (182 ABs as #1 hitter) in order to make statistically valid conclusions.
If Rodriguez doesnt come then some people are in trouble, ESPN said he accepted the position about 1:30 central time, its suppose to be announced officially this afternoon. I wont be happy until I see him at a Tide press conference. Great hire, if he comes
T.J. Bohn for left field!
The Royals just signed Octavio Dotel to a one-year, $5 million contract. I actually like this deal, and wouldn’t have minded if we could have picked him up at that price. Damaged goods, but heck of an arm when healthy.
Break up the Royals! Way to go, Dayton–nice move.
Rodriguez stays. Mal Moore has issued a statement saying he’s declined.
WJOX reporting he stays.
Haven’t looked for links, but they’re there.
Breaking News – everywhere- Rich Rod is staying at WV
My cell phone is going crazy, we’re dancing in the streets of Auburn. Not that we were afraid of Rodriguez, more that we just now realize nobody wants the Bama job.
Hello Jim Grobe.
“Loose lips sink ships”
STAY AWAY FROM CUTCLIFFE
Maybe Jimbo at LSU now, this should wake up some eyes for the AL Nation
Tip #1: have someone lined up before you fire your HC
Well, Rodriguez was my #1 all along.
My new odds for who gets the Bama job:
Jim Grobe (Wake Forest) – 40%
Bobby Johnson (Vanderbilt) – 10%
Paul Johnson (Navy) – 10%
Rush Probst (Hoover HS) – 10%
David Cutcliffe (Tennessee, Offensive Coordinator) – 10%
Jimbo Fisher (LSU, Offensive Coordinator) – 5%
Chan Gailey (Georgia Tech) – 5%
Joe Kines (Alabama, Defensive Coordinator) – 5%
Nick Saban (Miami Dolphins) – 5%
*A Saban hire would come after the NFL season concludes on December 31st. I don’t think Bama can sit on this for over 3 more weeks.
If I had to put all my chips on one guy, I’d go with Grobe.
#99 – you are correct, we, excuse me, Moore didnt do his homework and he’s probably going to have to step down very soon.
OneEye, Bama did. His name was Norm Chow.
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/sports/061204/chow.shtml
Joe Kines – 50% (no one else wants it)
JIm Grobe – 10%
Paul Johnson – 10%
Jimbo Fisher – 10%
Mike Shula – 10%
any other name – 10%
at least Miami didnt embarass themselves, they knew what they could and couldnt get right now and they are better for it
Isn’t it funny when the top 3 names for Bama’s head coach (on my list) are head coaches from Navy, Wake, Vandy, Tennessee’s offensive coordinator, and Hoover High School?
espn news is reporting that the Yankees and Andy Pettitte have agreed to a 1-year deal.
I couldn’t see Chow leaving before the end of the season, especially with the Titans on a roll right now. They still have a slim playoff chance.
Wryn, be serious. Hoover High – maybe offensive coordinator under Kines.
Well Hell, Kines might not even want it. Moore better hope that Saban gets fired and might consider. Here’s hoping that the Dolphins lose out
Wryn,
There is a 0% chance that Bobby Johnson will be leaving Vanderbilt this season. Zee-row.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Helton-LaRoche-on-Angels-radar?urn=mlb,17179
“The Atlanta Braves backed out of a potential Adam LaRoche-Mike Gonzalez trade with the Pittsburgh Pirates, but that doesn’t necessarily mean LaRoche is staying put.
The Pirates and Braves are still in talks, and Atlanta could deal LaRoche to the Los Angeles Angels for Chone Figgins in what would probably be a multi-team deal.”
You know, Wryn, insulting your blogger is usually considered gauche.
Sigh.
Who knows? The big problem is that Moore announced that the new guy would have head coaching experience. That leaves out Chow anyway, though he’d be pretty close to my first choice. Alex R. pointed out to me that the vast majority of successful coaches in the SEC would not have been hired under Moore’s criteria, because they weren’t already “big-time coaches”.
It’s all in fun Mac. It’s a free world – Bama will be back. To be completely genuine, I wish you guys had gotten Rodriguez. Grobe scares me.
From HW’s link,
“Sexson would be sent to the San Francisco Giants and reliever Rafael Soriano would be shipped to the Braves, while the Mariners would receive Hudson and Atlanta first baseman Adam LaRoche in return.”
I find this hilarious…according to this we were “considering” sending Hudson and LaRoche to SEA and all we would get is Soriano…instead we send HoRam for the same….hahahahahahahahaha
No other coach will want this after knowing that weve been in contacts with at least 5 or 6 coaches. Our search has moved on to the top tier coordinators or just simply keeping Kines
Pettitte signs with Yankees. A one-year deal between $15M & $16M, I’m hearing.
Good move by Rodriguez staying put. The expectations at Bama far outweigh the resources available.
Interesting that Pettitte and Bonds signed the exact same contract.
This Bama thing is beginning to remind me of the post-Goff Glenn Mason weirdness at UGA back in ’95.
That’s silly, Robert. Alabama’s recruiting base is more than solid and its facilities (thanks in large part to Mal Moore) are spectacular. This is a place you can win.
If I had my choice, I’d hire Cutcliffe. He’s had head coaching success, he’s an offensive mind, he is a Bama man, and it would hurt Tennessee. I still don’t understand why Ole Miss fired him.
It’s kind of weird, but NY has been relatively quiet this offseason.
I wonder if Roger will follow Petitte to NY.
I’ll say Jimbo Fisher, might as well.
The Nats are looking to trade Ryan Church, Jose Vidro and Chad Cordero…
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061207&content_id=1754283&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp
Rick Neuheisel, Gary Barnett? Enticing, right?
Brandon Inge gets a 4-Year, $24M extension from the Tigers.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061208&content_id=1754769&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp
The White Sox and Mike McDougal agree on a 3-Year $6.45M contract with a club option for 2010.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20061208&content_id=1754837&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
Giants re-sign Steve Kline to a 2-Year $3.5M deal.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061208&content_id=1754694&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp
The Rangers agree to terms with OF Marlon Bryd…1-Year deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2691438
Jay…we can all read the news on those sites…
Stu don’t be a dick, i’m just posting deals.
All of you who are so ready to be rid of Giles, please list for me all the better hitting 2B in the league.
dola,
After you do that think of how frickin’ stupid it would be to give him away for nothing rather than pay him $6M in a market where Gil “Ga” Meche is taking home $11M/ year to be a below average pticher.
Interesting that there are so many small deals going down at exactly the same time. I wouldn’t mind Steve Kline, by the way, and the Mike McDougal deal strikes me as very commonsensical. (I know Alex R. loves him.) The Inge deal’s pretty reasonable too–funny that he’s getting paid Marcus Giles money while Gary Matthews is getting paid old J.D. Drew money.
What, did all the GMs decide not to be stupid today?
Yeah, Jay, I know what you’re doing.
Jay no offense but the websites we visit all post those links for us, thats why we visit them. I appreciate the news, but can you maybe consolidate it all into one post please?
Now here is some irony
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061208&content_id=1754894&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
If we trade James or Davies for Baldelli then Schuerholz has finally cracked. I’m pretty sure that the Rays in typical fashion will price themselves out of a trade but shoot you never know. I guess that we get to watch Francoeur and Francouer lite play the corners if we do go nuts and trade away a pitcher for him.
the article mentions Salty and Escobar as the bait. That’s ok. I’d give up those two, but James? No dang way. Shoot in this market the Braves would be crazy to trade Davies especially when you have exactly 5 starting pitchers on the roster now.
Dix,
Yeah…my bad.
Stu,
Sorry about that, just had a bad day…
Perhaps JS is using misdirection again with the TB rumors, I just hope he isn’t angling in on the hacktastic trio of Baldelli-Crawford-Cantu.
Jay can’t consolidate his posts, because I have it set so you can’t post more than one URL at a time.
You know, I dont think I would mind a Salty/Escobar/Davies for Baldelli deal. What really are our options after Andruw leaves? Salty is blocked, with no guarantees he can play first. Escobar? Dont really know enough to say, but I think we have alot of middle infield prospects, and as for Davies, Cormier seems like a better option right now, and I dont know that I getting rid of HoRam and Davies really depletes our Major League ready talent.
Just my thoughts, no hard facts or figures, just a gut feeling.
@130 and 139 – agree James has to stay, I would move Salty and Davies for him, but only if we cant get an extension out of Druw. Only problem with moving Davies is weve given up two starters on a slim rotation anyway. Its interesting none the less.
Mac, do you listen to Finebaum. If not, he’s lobbying for Stallings to return. Stallings said on air he would be willing to talk to Bama, and he thinks he can win again. He fits Mal’s profile of a coach, your thoughts. He might not be the long term answer, but might give a little stability. I dont know
If there is no James involved if this goes down, that’s great.
If he is involved, BAD!
stu comes back at a lot of people jay.you dont have to apologize. you are very informative to a lot of bloggers on this site. stu’s main reason for post is to argue about his superior point. keep posting jay, no matter how obvious some people think the posts are.
adam laroche for chone figgins and scot shields, would ya do it? are we really just going to non-tender giles?
but one link to the main page that has all the links would be ok. and a rundown of what we will find there so we know if its worth lookin 😉
I just figured it would be quicker the way I did it, instead of posting a link with the main page….to avoid having to search.
ryan c
No, and I don’t see why not. Do whatever. We’ve got plenty of second basemen. I think Willy Aybar can step in anyway.
Jay, I like it – thanks, man!
Ryan C and Wryn,
Thanks. 🙂
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/12/08/meetings/1.html
# 12 sad but true..
I don’t mind giving up Escobar, what with Renteria and that Elvis guy we all hear about. I don’t mind Davies as long as we get another starter or promote another minor league pitcher, anything except giving a starting spot to one of the two cruddy relief pitchers the Braves used there last season; Villarreal and Cormier.
But I don’t want to trade Saltalamacchia and especially James. O’Brien says James won’t be traded and Schuerholz considers him untouchable. I hope that is true. Trading James would be so stupid it would overshadow the Ramirez-for-Soriano trade ten fold.
If the Braves were to include Davies in a deal that also included either Saltalamacchia or Escobar, they would likely head to Spring Training with Lance Cormier targeted to be their fifth starter. Cormier’s late-season success put him in position for this role.
Braves’ organization officially insane.
I can live with trading Salty. We’ve got catcher kind of covered now. James, however, shoudl be off limits unless there’s an even better pitcher coming back.
Davies for Baldelli is fine with me.
Jay,
No worries. Just refrain from the personal attacks, or so I’ve been told.
ryan c,
I know you are, but what am I? Where’d that come from, little buddy?
Everyone else,
There’s no way JS would include James in a trade for Baldelli.
Also,
In that situation, why would we go with Cormier over Villarreal? It seems like I remember Villarreal being pretty darn effective as a spot starter last year.
Come on, Baldelli? The Braves will lead the league in strikeouts in the next decade if they put Baldelli and Frenchy in the same lineup. One Frenchy is enough, we don’t need another one. If the Braves are trading for Crawford, that’s another matter!
I read that the when Mike Hampton went down with injuries, and that insurance or whatever picked up his salary, the braves still took his salary out of the yearly budget and tucked it away to spend on these years when his salary jumped up. If that is true, and we have this extra money laying around, would Batista be a possibility? and would we even want him?
If Rocco k’s so much, why would we want him to bat lead-off? And I think our fifth spot would be a combo of vulture+Cormier
That’s why the Rocco rumor doesn’t make sense.
And I don’t want Batista.
DOB’s latest:
I think I’ll put up another blog now, because I wanted to also tell you what I just found out tonight about the supposed Baltimore Roberts/Penn for Giles/LaRoche offer, which I said last week sounded wrong and wouldn’t have happened.
I was wrong. Braves wanted to do it. I couldn’t believe until a person who absolutley knows told me tonight.
That’s genuinely disturbing.
I didn’t really want Batista either, and I don’t think he will come here=$$$; I wonder if all this Baldelli talk is just a JS ploy do get a different deal moving? I mean, how many deals does he make that are rumored ahead of time? Anybody whisper Soriano’s name before that deal happened? That is why JS rules.
Someone asked if Penn was any better than Davies, and the answer is no. But, perhaps he wanted to make that deal in order to make another deal, like say, for Balldeli
Stallings is 71; I think people were maybe hoping he could come in as AD, but coach seems like a stretch. Heck, before he left everyone had spent the last couple of years wondering if he would retire.
Baldelli?
Crawford?
We got to get a guy that some other manager thinks is a leadoff hitter. Got to trade good, cheap, young players to get him.
Giles and Roberts are so similiar (as someone already wrote) that it would be LaRoche for Penn. A power hitter for an unproven pitching prospect who has sucked in his brief time in the majors. I really hope O’Brien’s source is wrong or playing a joke, that trade would have been a disaster. It’s dead now, so the Braves somehow dodged a self-inflicted bullet.
I read somewhere that Batista has said he’s going to play in Missouri next season, either with the Cardinals or the Royals.
I vote to ban the IP address of the next nitwit who insinuates that Marcus Giles will be non-tendered. Can I get a second?
Another reason why the Braves will never non-tender Marcus…the Mets will sign him. So, please, enough of that.
Sorry, Mr. Swings @ Everything, but the non-tendering of the amazing Mr. Giles has been mentioned as a possibility. I, for one, would be THRILLED to see Marcus manning 2B for Atlanta next season, but every time I turn on my PC all I see is that the Braves will *have* to begin 2008 without him. It makes so very little sense, considering he’s such a solid player. There has to be something going on that we just do not know about. Why do the Braves and supposedly every other team out there not want him? I don’t get it…
kc,
I’d thought of that. And it makes me ill.
How can, for example, the Red Sox not be interested in offering us some mid-tier prospect for Giles? Money’s no concern for them, and they’re currently planning on starting a non-blue-chip rookie at second next season.
I think just about everyone on here wants Giles to stay. But their is simply just not enough money. He is going to cost around $6M to re-sign him, which apparently we don’t have. I wonder if we can still try and trade Hudson for pitching prospects to relieve some of that payroll.
Stu,
I like the idea of trading Giles to the Sox if, IF we can’t re-sign him.
Here’s a list of their prospects, maybe we could get 1 or 2 of them for Gilly.
http://www.soxprospects.com/index.html
I like this guy’s numbers…
http://www.soxprospects.com/players/buchholz-clay.htm
I guess Boston already has their Marcus Giles like player…
http://www.soxprospects.com/players/pedroia-dustin.htm
Yeah, Pedroia’s slated to be their starter this year, Jay. But he’s unproven and his minor league stats aren’t even close to those Giles put up.
Also, while I wouldn’t mind having Baldelli, I don’t think we should give up Salty, Escobar, AND Davies for him. Sure, Salty and Escobar seem to be blocked, but they’re valuable prospects who could be traded for more than the over-pricing D-Rays are willing to give. Plus, including Davies in a deal like that, to me, looks like you’ve given up on him; I, like flournoy, have not.
pee wee’s big adventure?
Once again, please take a look and find out how many 2B are better hitter’s than Giles (hint it’s not many). The fact is that but for maybe a handful of teams Marcus Giles would be a significant upgrade at 2B. If the Braves really wanted rid of him I’m sure something could be worked out.
If DOB is right and the Braves wanted that trade, it is time for JS to go. That makes no sense at all. What could he be thinking? Maybe JS is really thinking of jumping to the O’s with Mazzone!