I suppose that this can serve as a game thread for the All-Star Atrocity if so desired. Personally, I will be watching a movie and Rescue Me but may flip over if it looks like a Brave is going to hit.
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At least Renteria and Andruw will get one at-bat each at least. You gotta see that. 😉 Andruw has hit a home run in 2003 and 2005, it’s at least worth a few minutes of your time to see if he gets another one. lol
I would just like to say that Amazon’s package tracking feature is the best invention ever, second only to the microwave and the universal remote.
That is all.
jenny, for such a grammar/sytax stickler, you just crapped the bed.
1) If it’s the best invention ever, it can’t be second to anything.
2) It could only be second to one thing, not two. If there are two things ahead of it, it can be no better than third.
I know this is picky; it’s just that you almost melted my brain with that sentence. Also, it’s a slow day. Come back, Braves!
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20060711-9999-1s11padres.html
Padres are looking to acquire a 3rd baseman. Are currnetly looking at Betemit and also Andy Marte. Would you trade Betemit for Linebrink?
It took everything the White Sox had, for more innings than a lesser team would have been willing to keep fighting, to get one game from the Red Sox over the weekend. That’s something Williams needs to keep in mind if he bumps into John Schuerholz in Atlanta. What would it take to get Andruw Jones, anyway?
If it’s McCarthy, forget it. But if the Braves will consider Josh Fields, the Triple-A All-Star at third base, plus a package of pitching prospects, including knuckleballer Charlie Haeger or former Clemson lefty Tyler Lumsden, then maybe Williams will be able to give Guillen an upgraded roster the next time Boston is on the schedule.
I dont think that would be enough…
1914 Update:
NY Giants 42-29
Chicago Cubs 41-35
St. Louis Cardinals 40-37
Cincinnati Reds 37-38
Philadelphia Phillies 34-36
Brooklyn Robins 33-37
Pittsburgh Pirates 33-38
Boston Braves 31-41
Braves win in Chicago, 5-2, taking three of four from the Cubs at venerable West Side Grounds. As opposed to that gaudy monstrosity Weeghman Park those damn Federal Leaguers just built.
I would definitely trade Betemit for Linebrink, but since the Pads seem to want bullpen help as well, I don’t forsee that happening. 🙂
Tough call, CSG, but then they all are. I’d say yes, trade Betemit for Linebrink- we can make do with Chipper at 3rd until Van Pope is ready.
If the Sox want Andruw but aren’t willing to include McCarthy, I’d guess that’s the end of that discussion right there.
I would not trade Betemit for Linebrink, although I’m sure to be in the minority on that one. It’s probably just an irrational liking of the WB on my part.
Now, Giles for Linebrink, on the other hand…
Giles or Barfield could play third, right? Or is that too big a stretch?
Am I the only one that finds it incredibly stupid that homefield in the World Series is determined by who wins an exhibition game in July? I don’t get why baseball doesn’t determine homefield by who has the better record. It seems to work ok for the NBA and NHL.
Trading Betemit would be a bad idea with Chipper’s injury history the last few years. Plus it’d make more sense to trade Renteria or Giles which would give you a younger, cheaper player in one of the infield positions who is still a pretty good player plus whoever you get back in the trade.
I find it interesting that Marte’s name would come up as a trade possibility. That would be his third team in the last year which is kind of amazing for how highly regarded he was among some Braves’ fans. I guess it shows that GMs don’t put as much stock in “can’t miss” prospects that haven’t yet proven themselves at the major league level and are much more willing to trade those players for players that can help a major league team win now.
csg,
This is the kind of radical thought that is going to be necessary to keep us contenders in the next few years. It’s true that if we trade Andruw (and Betemit) this year, we won’t win–but then, what are the chances of winning anyway. We know that it will require the Braves to play at least .600 ball the rest of the way. As Mac has stated, we are probably a .550 team, albeit one that has been awfully unlucky. And with our pen, it’s not likely that we will do much of anything even should we reach the playoffs. Moreover, we are going to lose Andruw when he becomes a free agen (plus no team wins when any one of their players makes as much, as a percentage, as Andruw does on this team). So, why not make a trade, especially if we can fill holes. Hear, I’m thinking of trades that will get us starters (forget relievers, the great ones are taken and the good ones often become dog crap within a year), lead off hitters, corner outfielders/infielders with power.
Additionally, we have to be realistic. The only moves that can really be made are trading prospects for over-priced established (and generally declining players), trading established stars(like Andruw) and servicable players (who aren’t stars and won’t provide much return but who fill a need on a contending team). Crappy players can’t be traded except to teams that want to get rid of their own crappy players (the change of settings players). So, trades like LaRoche for Mariano Rivera aren’t going to happen.
Thus, looking over our roster and minor leagues, what do we have? At this point, we have very few prospects that are going to help us land helpful talent. Trading prospects like Lerew and Salty aren’t wise moves right now–they both are stinking it up. Better to wait until they get back on track. Then, looking at our current team, what do we have? Last year, Julio might have been a good player to trade to a team that needed bench help. This year, maybe LaRoche fits the bill, perhaps Langerhans, and Ray. But none of these is going to provide much return (indeed, trading Ray maybe about the most ridiculous thing to do since he’s been the best reliever we’ve had all year) as they embody the serviceable player who doesn’t provide much return. Trading either Smoltz or Hudson seems desperate and probably won’t net much of a return–both are older (especially Smoltz) and more inconsistent than a true ace (especially Hudson). So again, we aren’t going to get much back. Trading Chipper also fits under that category (older and inconsistent), and never mind the whole 10/5 issue. So what does that leave us with? Andruw and Marcus. Trading Marcus would be criminal given his first half (under the mantra of never selling low). He’s simply not going to provide as much return as he probably will later this year and in the off season. Andruw is clearly the best commodity we have trading-wise.
The problem with this is that such a trade no doubt would signal a white flag to the rest of the league (and to our own players). Thus, it’s probably wise to just go ahead and wait until the next down period when all hope will actually vanish. If such a period doesn’t come, then moves such as these become illogical anyway.
Giles has played some third, but I don’t think he is the guy you want over there. Too bad Pete Orr isn’t playing better. He can play third and is fast. I wouldn’t mind loosing him.
I would give Pete Orr for almost ANYONE who stands on a mound during a game.
How about we package Orr and Pratt for any average reliever. Then Pena can come be our back-up.
nevermind, we apparently are the only team who would still have players of their caliber on our roster.
I really don’t mind the break. The players need it not just physically but mentally as well. Actually I would have this whole week on a break if I was commish b/c the guys that are all stars really don’t get a break.
Just start up again on Monday July 17 instead of this Thursday(or Friday in our case). That would give EVERYONE a TRUE break.
And stop the INSANITY about whichever league wins the ASG gets home field in the WS. That’s absolute INSANITY! Give it to the team with the best regular season record. Geez if your going to play the marathon that’s 162 games, make it mean as much as possible!
— Bravesfan1
A little thing called marketing, I guess. Too bad it doesn’t work.
I found this in an interview over on Talking Chop:
It’s from an interview of Jeff Francouer.
…………………………………………………………………………
MG: You said last week that it would be great to leave for the break being 40-49.
JF: I did, I said 40-49 at the break, and I think our next goal at a team would be to get to 60-60. It’s 20-11, which would be a great way to start the second half. First you got to get to .500, and when you get to .500 then you can start doing the ifs, ands, and buts, and how many wins we need to be in the wild card. Right now we just need to keep playing great baseball and if we do that, then in about a month and a half we’ll find ourselves right about .500.
…………………………………………………………………………
anyone have a site that could tell me our current contracts and what year each player is signed through?
Also saw this quote attributed to Baseball Prospectus.
“Adam LaRoche’s top three comparable players are Tino Martinez, Todd Helton, and Jason Giambi, but you wouldn’t know it from his performance.”
No S&*! Shirlock…This makes me wonder what comparables other players are getting. I’d love to tell Helton that his comparables are Adam LaRoche, Wes Helms, and Shrek.
http://www.mlb4u.com
The only thing Adam has in common with those guys is that they are all LH-hitting 1Bs.
LaRoche’s performance (at bat, anyway) isn’t that different from the young Martinez’s; in fact, it’s superior. At 25, Tino’s career line was .252 .321 .411. LaRoche’s line entering this year (last season was his age 25 year) .267/.326/.468.
I would like to have a Tino Martinez at first.
Dayn Perry says we have the worst grade, F…
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5768562
How does Steve Phillips have a job and I don’t. He was just on Dan Patrick and I have no clue how he ever got a job in baseball
He (Phillips) also had the lowest score of any baseball analyst on the ESPN.com trivia quiz (posted on the last thread)
Also, on a slow news day, I could use advice – I’ve been offered Jason Schmidt & Felix Hernandez for Manny in the roto league I’m in. Good trade to take?
Keeper league? Are you in need of pitching?
See I did rally well on that quiz.
I think we should demand I have Steve Phillips job!
Faux demonstrates the inanity of its grading system- if the Marlins get a B and we get an F, how come we’re ahead of them in the standings?
ESPN’s philosophy is to hire “experts”, meaning people with experience. Since everyone who actually knows anything has a real job already, that means idiots like Phillips.
RfB2 within a week.
The Marlins’ payrole is only $15 million
Perhaps its all based on expectations. The Marlins were supposed to suck really bad. The Braves, on the other hand, were supposed to do fine this year…
Its also Dayn Perry, AKA obsessed w/ Mets and dislikes the Braves. He did however predict the Braves to win the division and go to the World Series this year. That was before our great play in June.
Frankly the Braves don’t deserve a better grade than the Marlins. I think the grades represent performance based on expectations. They aren’t a ranking of the best to worst teams. The Marlins have performed very well this year and are playing almost as good as you can play with such a young team. The Braves have performed way under what you would expect. There isn’t a single guy having a career year. Most guys are underperforming.
Except McCann, but it is easy to have a carrer year in your second year
Paronto and Ray are having career years, I guess. Maybe even LaRoche. But the point certainly stands.
There in lies our problem…we are getting career years out of Paronto and Ray. Yikes!!!
Great point. *Weeps*
Or you can look at the other side, our hopes were on the shoulders of Reitsma, Pratt, Sosa, and Remlinger. That sounds even worse to me, but its all relative
This year basically IS Ray’s career
I call high school football for a local school – I do play-by-play; got my team’s schedule yesterday and to my shock, I have a road game that is 228 miles away. Oh what fun. Drive 228 miles there, call a 2-hour game, and drive 228 miles back. Oh yeah, it’s a region game too.
Has anyone else ever seen that great a travel distance for a regular season regional high-school football game?
Any team that has a 3-20 stretch (or whatever that was) should get an F. Who cares about these people anyway? Braves fans should understand that a good chunk of the baseball world hates the Braves for a variety of reasons. It was bound to happen.
I even saw a Braves mention in New York magazine in that graph section that has “highbrow/lowbrow…brilliant/despicable.” In the “lowbrow/despicable” part, it had a picture of Chipper doing a faceplant into the turf with the headline: TOMAHAWK FLOP!
I chuckled & thought, “Well, at least it took ’em 15 years to break that one out.”
Also, in the history of ESPN baseball analysts my favorite would have to be Buck Showalter. I just love how tightly wound he was & how he never seemed to breathe when he was spieling. I always got a kick out of his pre-game radio show when he was managing the Yankees, too.
But as good as Buck was on ESPN, he never could quite compete with Karl Ravech’s outstanding hairpiece.
Wryn,
That’s plenty long. Back when I was playing HS ball in Columbus, we had to drive 2 hours to a game near Americus once. It was a grind getting there through all those tiny towns & two-lane roads, but everyone perked up when they found out that…Billy Carter, the president’s brother, was in attendance.
The whole game I was sneaking peeks up to the stands to see all the commotion he brought. And we won the game, so the trip back wasn’t that bad at all. Funny how that works…
my prediction for the all-star game- 1-0 NL victory
by the way, I’m not very good at predictions.
My senior year we drove from Keystone Heights, FL to Mount Dora, FL, which was about a 3 hour drive. That was a long drive. Last game of the season though.
My sure to be wrong All-Star game prediction: AL wins 10-3. It’s not a fluke that the AL kicked the NL’s butt in interleague this year. Right now the AL just has better players (aside from Pujols) and better teams. Looking at Phil Garner’s lineup makes me feel a little better about Bobby “Keep Giles At Leadoff All Season Even Though He Hates It And Sucks At It” Cox. Did Garner throw darts to decie to have Renteria hitting 5th?
It’s fun to make predictions. Let’s see if I get one right-
I’m not real impressed with the AL starting pitchers, so I think the NL takes this one 7-4. Pujols and McCann go deep for the NL, Ortiz for the junior circuit.
And just to show that we have company in making mistakes, from Kevin Goldstein’s chat at Baseball Prospectus today:
Pesach (Israel): Considering what has become of Jason Kendall, Why not give some time to Jeremy Brown? He seems to have rebounded well this year.
Kevin Goldstein: Are there really still Jeremy Brown supporters out there? Really? He’s batting .247/.317/.389 in Triple-A and he still can’t catch. It was a mistake pick — every team has them.
Just checking some stats over at Baseball Prospectus….
They have an adjusted standings page that shows W-L records based on runs scored and runs allowed, with various adjustments for opposition, etc. Any way you look at it, the Braves’ record is a bit worse than it “ought to” be, given our run productivity and (in)ability to stop the opposition. But, remember, this includes all the aggravating runs allowed. (I’m looking at you, Chris. I’m looking at you, Jorge.) The Mets, on hte other hand, are a few games betters than they “should be.” Based on run productivity, with adjustments, we should only be eight games back. Which we’re not, I know.
Then I checked out the VORP stats for Braves players. (Value Over Replacement Player.) Chipper’s recent surge has nudged him ahead of Andruw. But the real news is that Todd Pratt has supplanted Francoeur for the worst VORP. It is -7 or -8, which is amazingly bad given how few plate appearances Pratt has. (VORP has the curious genius of blending value in rates of productivity with how many ABs you are chewing up.)
Look, I am really happy that Jeff Francoeur is a Brave. He is fun to watch, and whether or not clutch hitting “really” exists (as a long-term attribute of a player), there is no doubt that he is getting a lot of clutch hits for us (i.e., real hits in real games at crucial times). Also, he has a lot of upside potential. I mean, he can’t walk less, right?
But Pratt…. This would be easy addition by subtraction. The definition of VORP is that there are essentially “free” catchers around who could do better (VORP=0; they are replacement players). Like Brayan Pena. And, yes, I’m still ticked about the ball Pratt threw into left field on Friday. We were coming back in that game.
Actually, Pete Orr has the Braves’ worst VORP figure right now at -3.7(although that’s not completely fair since Orr is being compared to “Others” including DHs and pinch-hitters, while Pratt’s being compared to catchers).
Frenchy has worked his way above replacement level. Woohoo. Extra hoo.
By the way, Brown really is that fat. Still.
Brian J.–
Where are you getting your VORP data?
I am looking here.
Hey, that last link would have been funny if I meant it, probably funnier ’cause I didn’t. (How do you take these things down?)
Anyhow, try again: link for anyone who subscribes to BP
Ah. I see the problem. I was looking at another BP statistic, Runs above Replacement Position, here.
Quite a gap between the big four- Renteria, McCann, and the Jones boys- and the rest of the team.
Pete Orr’s stats as a PH: .323/.344/.484/.828. Orr no doubt sucks as an everyday player but he is fine to have on the bench especially considering he makes basically no money. You need players that can get on base in late innings as pinch hitters (think back to how important players like Dwight Smith, Mike Devereux, and Luis Polonia were a decade ago). OTOH, Pratt has no redeeming value other than filling Bobby Cox’s and John Shuerholz’s desire to have a “veteran backup catcher” on the roster. Replacing him on the roster with Brayan Pena would be an improvement in every way imaginable. As for Franceour, his lack of plate discipline, pitch recognition, and lapses in concentration both at the plate and in the outfield are worrisome, but we’re all just going to have to wait a few more years to see if it’s a real problem or just the result of a player who should be in his first full year in AAA this year but was instead rushed to the big leagues because the team made a bad bet on Raul Mondesi and Brian Jordan to be its corner outfielders to start last year.
Orr’s a tactical weapon as a pinch-runner and a defensive replacement in a playoff series, kinda like Otis Nixon was in his second stay in Atlanta. But that’s the limit of his utility, and he has no business here during the season.
Pratt wasn’t the world’s worst idea- he had a recent record of hitting (251/332/394 in 2005). But he’s done, and if Cox doesn’t see it, he’s the only one.
You’d think Fox could get some half-decent CGI for its intro to the All-Star Game.
Great start for Penny strikes out the side.
Brad Penny is just dealing tonight.
Renteria is up.
Good news! The NL ties it!
Bad news! It’s that f***-knuckle Wright!
I get giddy everytime I see BMac in the dugout
I’m giddier when I see the NL score!
It’s probably been a while since anyone stole third base with two outs off of Ivan Rodriguez.
Renteria 4-6-3. Glad you got that out of the way tonight.
Now you know why the Mets are in 1st place.
Well, I don’t know if this is a big surprise to any of you, but I just read this article on te Braves’ official website:
“Braves Run on TBS to end in ’07”
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060711&content_id=1552889&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
One of the saddest things I read in the article:
“…as TBS has changed its identity and such sitcoms as “Friends” and “Seinfeld” have generated more advertising revenue, the network has started to decrease its Braves coverage…'”Unfortunately, we can’t have it all, and some things had to give,” said (Turner Sports President David) Levy, a staunch Braves fan. “Ultimately, it came down to a financial situation.” ”
I guess those of us that have been spoiled to watching (basically) every game on TV will have to adjust. Does anyone know what the coverage will be like on Turner South/FSN, or whatever they call it now? I am bummed.
Hey, who let Chris Reitsma take the mound in a Padres uniform?
Wow, they really blew that one. I would be PISSED if I was Beltran, Wright, Reyes, LoDuca and gang. This may really affect them.
So, for my trouble in watching the All-Star Game tonight, I got to see a spotty offense, decent enough starting pitching, and a self-destructive bullpen. I think in Atlanta, we called this “June.”
I was REALLY pissed off when Hoffman didn’t get Young. I excused the ground-rule double because it didn’t score a run, but the least that Hoffman could do with an 0-2 count is get a lousy strikeout!
I hate to bring it up, but is it possible that McCann’s game calling strategy is not conducive to save situations? Maybe he can’t call pitches to finish off aggressive hitters at the end of a game. I don’t really know Hoffman’s pitching style. And I have no numerical arguments.
Stupid theory. I know. Just a scary thought I just had to share.
Seriously though, you have to feel bad for Brian McCann, how many blown saves does this guy have to witness this year ??? Unbelievable.
I may be frustrated because the NL lost, but this game is a joke. I still can’t believe “this one counts.” I suppose what bothers me the most was McCann running so hard with such a bad ankle. What if he hurts it? Do we lose one of our best players over an exhibition game? My goodness…
No need to be so defensive, Nobogfrog, but I don’t see that McCann’s game-calling would override Trevor Hoffman’s normally very good pitching instincts today or could redeem the wastes of protoplasm in our bullpen.
Still, worth keeping an eye on. Casey Stengel said of his catcher with the Mets, Chris Cannizzaro, “He calls for the curveball too much. He don’t hit it . . . and he don’t think anybody else can.” Since McCann can hit almost anything, maybe he doesn’t know what he’d get himself out with.
Somebody explain to me why Carlos Lee was inserted into left field late instead of putting Andruw in center and moving Beltran to left. Maybe there was a little more excitement in the ninth due to the World Series home field advantage rule, but overall this looked just like any other All-Star game to me. On Mike&Mike, Gullic was saying the ratings have actually gone down since the new rule went in a few years ago. So can we get rid of it already and finally determine home field advantage by who has the better regular season record? The broadcasters spent more time talking about Jose Reyes who didn’t even play than they did Brian McCann. I guess that is par for the course on a Fox broadcast. If there’s any good news, it’s that having home field advantage should help the AL team in the World Series beat the Mets.
Honestly, I don’t know. It looked to me like Lee gave up on that ground-rule double ball. He could have caught that. The game would have been over, and we wouldn’t be talking about this. 🙂