ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Braves at Astros
Brian McCann returned to the lineup. He went 3-3. No walks or anything. The rest of the lineup was so bad that they never got to him the fourth time.
The Braves actually opened the scoring. Chipper singled to the gap with two out in the first, then Andruw hit a long homer. So you’d think we were about to have an offensive showdown, only the non-McCann Braves wouldn’t have another hit until two out in the ninth. And Sosa gave up homers to the first two men he faced to tie the game.
The key play in the game was an infield single. Biggio singled with one out in the fifth. He was running on a 3-2 pitch which Mike Lamb chopped softly to second. Lamb has never been confused for Rickey Henderson, but he beat the throw. It wasn’t like Marcus was LaRochagagging, but he probably could have been a little more abrupt with his throw. Then Berkman walked (Sosa was getting squeezed) and Ensberg hit a long fly out to score a run, then a double to make it 5-2. Paronto gave up a Grybo to make it 6-2. Nobody would have scored if Giles throws out Lamb. Another run off of Paronto made it 7-2, the final score.
Three Braves, only one of whom has the excuse of being Jeff Francoeur, struck out three times each — Renteria and Chipper were the others. The only Braves to reach base other than McCann after the first were Langerhans on a walk, and LaRoche on a completely useless two-out double in the ninth.
I don’t have a gun, but I feel like shooting something.
Mets making all kinds of good, quality trades while the Braves sit still.
Please tell me this was J. Sosa’s last start? Anybody?
The team sucks so bad that the losing doesn’t hurt anymore…
Dan, the Mets can take on an additional $30M to the payroll and the Braves can’t. Thanks to Time Warner, and now the Braves will be handed over to another corporate owner. Can someone remind me an example of a successful corporate sport franchise owner?
I think it’s time for more haiku.
Maybe tomorrow Mccann can bat 8th.
Tomorrow the now rested Reitsma can return to show us how much better he is without `tipping’ his pitches….
Actually kc, the Mets are completely tapped out on payroll right now. Wilpon wants to keep it right around $100 and 1) They took on a couple million with the El Duque trade and 2) They didn’t save anything on the Matsui deal – the Mets are still paying all of his salary.
Unless Wilpon has a change of heart (and it doesn’t seem likely), the Mets will only be able to add something at the trade deadline unless they shed salary (read: Cliff Floyd). And that also seems unlikely given how well he’s liked in the clubhouse.
You’re seeing tonight why the Mets will win the East by at least 7-10 games…in first place and playing well, they make moves (El Duque/Matsui) to improve the team.
Now in 4th place, the Braves stand still.
Division over.
Call up Chuck James and have him replace Sosa in the rotation. Move Sosa to the bullpen to replace the released outright (hopefully) Reitsma. DL or DFA Thomson and call up Stockman.
Couldn’t hurt, right?
Does Frenchy have any trade value?
So how long do we wait Before we give up on the season.And we trade away our keep player such as smoltz Chipper Giles AJ.Not a key player but we must trade him Reisma
Jason, I meant that was during the offseason.
Hey, maybe the Braves can trademark “Wait till next year.”
To be fair to JS, there really isn’t a lot to trade for out there – the Nationals are asking for the moon for Livan Hernandez (they were asking Milledge, Pelfrey, and scrub earlier) and now that they’re hot he’s likely off the table. Willis could probably be had, but only for a king’s ransom and not to anyone in the division.
El Duque was a unique case because of how well he’s always pitched in NY. And until yesterday’s start, he actually was kinda sucking it up for the Mets.
JS will do something, to be sure. But he’s not going to morgage the entire future just to get a mediocre arm right now.
Be patient. Even though they’re playing well,the Mets next 21 games are absolutely brutal. The schedule maker this year should really be taken out behind the shed.
Actually kc, their payroll this year is exactly the same as it was last year. They’ve shed a lot of bad, expensive contracts the last couple years. Essentially they’ve turned the salaries of Vaughn, Alomar, Piazza, and Burnitz into Beltran, Delgado, Wagner, and Pedro.
I don’t care about the mets or our schedule or who’s available. Frankly, there isn’t a lot that can be done now. The time to make moves was this offseason, when 100+ pitchers were available to be had, most within our budget. JS sat on his ass from october to april and did nothing, and we’re paying the price now.
This team is flawed, and realistically, there isn’t much that can be done. Barring something major, this team is done.
I just thought of something. I want the Braves to make a move, sure, that would be nice, but I’ll be damned if they pull off a Len Barker-type trade. The Braves panicked then. The Braves shouldn’t panic now, unlike us. We can panic all we want. I’m done panicking, I’m practically dead to the season at this point, but I think my point still stands.
Don’t want to panic either, but you have to do SOMETHING. My gosh, do ANYTHING. They keep running the same lineup and same pitchers out the same way every game and it hasn’t worked yet.
I don’t understand.
DON’T PANIC is a good mantra.
I still think calling up Stockman couldn’t hurt…
I don’t know where all of the rumors get started, but a reporter on Cold Pizza (I know they suck) said this morning the Yanks would go hard after Hudson if/when the Braves fall out of contention. This is not the first time this year I’ve heard of the possibility of Hudson being traded but I just don’t see it.
ok, it’s not 30M Jason, but I am talking about the fundamental difference between $100M and $80M. Hope I have made myself clear enough.
On the other hand, the Angels and the White Sox won a World Series with a payroll around $80M. So, once again, great job by our GM.
At times like this, I am grateful that I have the experience of watching the Orioles year after year so I’m used to total suckitude. We’re getting close, but it hasn’t been prolonged enough yet to approach that level. I can’t decide if I should mail it in yet or not, but I’m starting to think we should be sellers rather than buyers at the deadline, because there are just too many holes. I’m also beginning to come around to Brad’s perspective on JS. The sheen has been wearing off slightly for several years now, as I watched teams with obvious problems make it through the year in first place largely thanks to the ineptitude of the rest of the division, then have those obvious problems bite them in the ass in the first round of the playoffs, leading to an early exit every year. The Farnsworth move last year was good, but I didn’t like this offseason much at all. I hated the Marte trade and always will unless he turns out to be a total AAA flameout and I hate now having an aging Renteria with a bat I’ve never really trusted from year to year, bad defense (yeah, it was Fenway, Edgar, sure), and a stupid contract that I guess is Theo Epstein’s fault but we took it so it’s now ours. I hate that we apparently thought Reitsma was an adequate solution this year when it should have been clear from history that he wasn’t. You can’t be a closer if you have no out pitch, you just can’t be. I hate that we continue to run old crap like Todd Pratt and Brian Jordan out there; I don’t mind their token presence but just having them at all encourages Bobby to use them too much. I hate that LaRoche is still at first and Chipper is still at third when he should be at first and LaRoche should be gone entirely for bullpen help and Betemit should be at third. I hate the way Brian McCann is bounced around in the batting order like a yo-yo while the rest of the team falls into a black hole and LaRoche and Francoeur keep hacking us out of innings. I hate that our bullpen is full of suspect no-name riffraff that’s no better than anything you find at AAA, mostly because that’s where we did find it. I hate that we owe Tim Hudson and Mike Hampton huge amounts of money for not doing what they should (in Hampton’s case, nothing), I hate HoRam in general because I just cannot trust him at all, and I hate how Smoltz is overused. I hate how Dayton Moore is now gone, JS and Bobby’s immediate future is cloudy (though I’m not sure change is bad in this case), and we’re being sold to yet another corporate bunghole that doesn’t care about the team.
As you can see, I’m dissatisfied. And I’m done venting. Sorry for the negativity.
The only hitters I want to keep are McCann, Chipper, Andruw, Edgar and Betemit. Everyone else needs to go.
For the record, we won 16 of 21, then lost 10 of 12. I think we’re due for another streak, the good kind.
Jenny, thanks for airing out my feeling. I am just too lazy and too pissed off to type such a long message.
There are just too many problems which I don’t think a trade or two can fix this shitty team. The team is AT LEAST two All-Stars (I mean the real ones) away from being a decent team.
Gotcha now, kc. Yeah, payroll makes a difference, but usually JS makes smart trades that almost always work to make up the difference.
Honestly, during this entire amazing run the Braves have had, the Danny Kolb trade/Smoltz move is really one of the only ones that stands out in my mind as not working out. And even at the time, it was pretty much lauded by everyone in baseball.
You know what Jason, I don’t even fault JS for the Dan Kolb trade. It was obvious that Smoltz is going back to the starting role, and Kolb was a reasonable choice at a reasonable price at that time. The problem was in the head of Danny boy.
It’s ok to me that you like JS. We just have different opinion. I honestly think he did a decent job for the 2003 and 2004 season when the Braves’ payroll got cut from $100M to $80M. I still give him the benefit of doubt for last season despite the signings of Jordan and Mondesi. However, the last off-season have been terrible. Signing Jordan back? Trusting Reitsma as a closer? Expecting big thing from Boyer despite coming back from shoulder problem? Not strengthening the starting pitching despite the obvious lack of quality (not quantity)?
Also, did the team did enough homework on Renteria about his defense? His fielding might have been effected by the field in Boston, but how about his throwing arm? Isn’t it obvious that the Braves should know Edgar’s arm strength will not be enough to cover for Chipper’s lack of range?
now tied with the Natspos for third. read that sentence again.
Thanks Jenny–I agree and now here my own rant. Forgive the peevish tone!
I think that JS has done a good job (especially in the last few years) but some of the weaknesses of the Braves were bound to be exposed. If JS did less than he should have (which now seems obvious) during the offseason it was probably–or at least possibly–because he drew the wrong lessons from last year. To me, this is forgiveable, but surely mistaken.
We overachived last year and it now shows. Francoeur may develop into a great player, but now he has holes. I just hope that we get Boyer back. I suspect for what little difference it makes last year was Orr’s best and Sosa now looks like a flash in the pan. It is too late to think about sending him back to the pen–where many of us thought he belonged. Nonetheless, given last season it is understandable.
So as Lenin famously put it; “What Is To Be Done?”
I agree with Brad–we cannot do alot now, but we should not panic.
Yes, we should free Stockman and possibly free Thorman. James should be recalled.
We should be free to trade virtually everyone. However, Jason is right–there is probably not alot to trade for now.
Marcus ought to go now: yes, it was nice to have him laughing in the dugout of a 9th inning loss a few games ago, but tonight he did not really hustle and it mattered. Maybe I am being unfair–but when you have lost 9 out of 11, it is probably useful to hustle.
Marcus can be traded now and we even get somthing in return.
Our goal ought to become the Division in 07 and the World Series in 08.
With some luck we can make improvements and at least be a .500 team–which is actually in doubt now.
I guess everyone is pissed about Marcus laughing in the dugout a few nights ago, but I would like to remind everyone…I saw McCann laughing on the same night at the same moment as well. I just thought everybody in the dugout believed at that moment Adam will deliver a winning hit. Of course, we know better about Adam.
I am in the camp that the Braves should keep Marcus. He should hardly be a problem if he is moved back to his more comfortable role in the batting order. He is having the same problem as Chipper had when Chipper was forced to bat at the cleanup spot. However, the problem of Marcus is just more severe. In addition, Marcus not hustling? If there is a problem with Marcus, it is that he hustles too much and too hard. I consider tonight’s throw by Marcus was only an isolated matter.
Stephen, I like your assessment on JS about him drawing the wrong lessons from last year. I think you are right on target. JS’s moves (or non-moves) in the last off-season was almost the exact opposite to his off-season moves two season ago.
I didn’t realize Fernando Nieve was pitching for the Astros. No wonder we lost.
I’m with ububba. The Braves are due. I hope.
KC, Let me respond by saying that while I may have been hard on Giles, it is partly because he does have trade value. He still has a great upside and I think that he might eventually want to be on the West Coast anyway. The problem is that I think the Braves must make significant changes–not so much to try to salvage this season, but to ensure many good seasons to come. Mac, Jenny and others are right: we have some players who have fat contracts that are not producing as they should. These players are hard to move as well; Giles, in contrast, should be marketable.
We have had some bad luck: losing Boyer, Davies, Johnson, Foster (who would like Sparky Lyle in our current pen) and James (and McCann–even briefly) was not JS’s fault, but these injuries revealed the narrow margin between success and failure (for a team with 14 straight divisional titles).
I still believe that the Braves can have a great future. After all, the farm system is stocked and producing and I would hate to see us trade the future away for short term gains.
If the Braves win the division this year Cox should get manager of the century. Unfortunately I just don’t see it happening. I think we overachieved last year and are coming back down to earth this year. I’m not sure if we should trade for immediate help or if we should dump guys like Thomson for “prospects”. If we don’t start showing signs of life soon, we need to start doing things to position ourselves for next year.
I think its too soon to be thinking about the future, maybe if we still suck this much in july, than we con start to rebuild or restock. For this year I think we should try to go after free agents-to be on teams that are out of it. We rent them for the remainder of this season with no intention of signing them long-term. As for next year we bring up the young guys that will be ready to fill in the gaps.
Please forgive this post, it was a very very late night/morning and I may still be drunk.
Dan,
At least you’ll admit that you’ve been drinking. Mac made a post that Rafael Belliard, Jr. (I mean Tony Pena, Jr) will save the season the day after he claimed that he didn’t drink. (-;
I agree that it’s not time for mgmt to give up yet, but from my perspective it may be inevitable. Ray may still bomb as a closer, but so far he’s done pretty well. We just don’t need to sell the farm for a closer at this point. Give Ray a chance – I’m just afraid that there are so many holes with this team that sacrificing the future for a closer may come back and bite us. If Ray does an average job and we pick up 4 or 5 games by July, let’s see what our greatest need is and go after it. If not, let’s start looking to next year.