ESPN – Mariners vs. Braves – Box Score – June 20, 2008
Worst day ever? Got to be close. Blown out, and both Chipper and Escobar left the game with what are supposed to be minor injuries. It started well enough, with Jorge Campillo keeping the Mariners off the board (albeit with a lot of help from his defense, including Infante taking away a home run, which almost makes up for him playing left field to begin with). The Braves got a run in the fourth to take the lead, only for Francoeur to do what he does and ground into a bases-loaded, one out double play. Nothing much went right after that.
The Mariners tied it in the sixth. Campillo came out to start the seventh, but got only one out and wound up charged with three runs, two of them Grybos by Bennett. Ohman came out for the eighth and got the first two, but then fell apart; the Mariners had five runs, all off of Ohman. KJ drove in Escobar in the bottom of the inning, and Escobar apparently hurt his leg on the play. He is day to day. KJ was only playing because Chipper reinjured his quad; he says it’s the worst it’s been and he’ll miss at least two days. Nobody but Infante played well, which I guess is a good sign because he’s going to play a lot in the upcoming games.
Its bad enough to see Chipper go into a bit of a slump–but the injury just seems to fit the Braves’ season. I really hope that he gives it enough time to heal; he came back very quickly when he got hit in the face in the batting cage and his hitting seemed to suffer. I am afraid that if he comes back to soon, it will be just more of the same…
So, we’re 0-4 in our last 4 home games.
Prediction for today’s joke of a lineup…against LHP Jarrod Washburn
SS Infante
3B Gotay
RF Francoeur
1B Teixiera
LF Norton
C McCann
2B Johnson
CF Blanco
You know Francoeur will bat third.
Even though with this roster of “Misfit Toys” and the injuries to the ones, not misfit, its not his fault totally, if Bobby Cox were John Brown, I would advocate his firing, now.
We’re staring 15-20 games under .500 at the end of the season dead in the face.
All of you who laughed at me for saying this thing needs to be blown up and trade everyone of value for “true” prospects at the ML level were wrong.
No one comes to the games anyway, hell more might come if we had a young, hungry, hustling ball club. We have a bunch of guys with the pulse rate of Charlton Heston.
I would trade Teixeira and Hudson for as many ML level up and coming talents as I could get.
Chief- You’re insane.
Yeah it’s crazy to think that we might have to get worse before we can get better.
Tex is just going to leave, Hudson has peaked, Smoltz is likely done, Glavine can’t break glass, Chipper is as fragile as fine china, we have an outfield that would be subpar at AA, I mean what else do you see of value.
Have none of you all been paying attention to what other teams have done to get better?
Yeah, they’ve gotten good players. Once again, this is not football, and tearing down the team to hit rock-bottom is not a winning strategy, as the Pirates and Royals show.
Briefly breaking the no-politics rule to report that the completely and utterly insane mayor of Birmingham wants to bid on the 2020 Olympics, saying, and I quote, “Why not?” Why not indeed.
How much does Olympics bid prep cost in tax dollars, Mac?
Of course I couldnt watch the game cause of the stupid Peachtree channel, but didnt Gotay have a couple of hits? I dont remember him doing anything terrible except hitting into a DP when we were down 7 runs. I’m really getting to the point that I hate Bobby’s managing style. We’ll get a 4 or 5 run lead and then he’ll bring in pitchers to face one batter (a la Ring), but when its close games and the guys cant get people out, he’ll leave them in until they’ve given up more than a couple of runs. A reliever should never be allowed to give up 5 runs in the 8th inning. He’s got to start paying more attention to whats going on.
I’m going to the game today and hopefully everyone will help me boo Francouer. If Bennett pitches today, be looking for me to find away to tackle him when he’s on his way to the mound. Its the only way he’ll get any rest.
how about this lineup today
Blanco
Infante
KJ
Tex
Mac
Jones
Norton
Gotay
If Chipper and Escobar are both hurt enough to not play the rest of the series, the braves better send Ridgway down and call up another hitter. If not, we’ll be down to one PH without them. I would like to see Perry or Barbaro
I don’t know. He’ll probably raise sales taxes again (he already went from nine to ten cents, as virtually the first thing he did in office) and borrow the rest. I’m looking forward to the Hoover Metropolitan Area.
Olympics in Birmingham??? Yeah, Im sure the Olympic committee will be jumping on that one. Maybe all the athletes can stay in one of the run down hotels here and then go to outback or olive garden every night. Great idea for everyone!!!
Which Birmingham? I assume from this blog that you mean the one in Alabama…
Yes.
@7 The philosophy is not what matters, ultimately; it’s the skill of the management and its ability to (1) commit to a philosophy and (2) execute it that does. Oakland and Florida also tore it down, as did, before them, teams like the Tigers and Indians. Right now both the A’s and Marlins are better teams than the Braves, like it or not. And to take the Royals and Pirates: they both have been, in recent history anyway, hampered by terrible management.
In the end, winning has more to do with the guys at the top than some abstract ‘tear it down’ or ‘play for now’ philosophy. The Giants, Astros, and Blue Jays, among others, all refuse to break it up and they’ll all continue to be mediocre because they have bad GMs. Maybe the Braves don’t need to ‘blow it all up,’ but they should, in their interest, concede this season and start doing what is best for the next few. They won’t, and they’re stupid for it.
So, I’m working on a Saturday. Got here at 7:00 am.
And it’s all good, because I’m blasting Radiohead.
yeah the great and wonderful Birmingham, AL. Our mayor just comes up with what he thinks is bright ideas that’ll do nothing to help out the town/city. Here’s the best one a dome stadium because he thinks we’ll be able to get a professional football team to come to town. The best part about is, he thinks a 60,000 seat dome will be sufficient for a team. If you’re going to spend over $500mil for a dome, build one around 85-100K seats. Birmingham isnt attractive enough to get a professional team to come play here, its a waste of time and money
Well, if Oklahoma City can get an NBA team — hell, if Jacksonville can get an NFL team — I don’t see why not, but it depends upon getting someone who is rich and insane enough to spend the money.
have you seen downtown Birmingham? Hoover area maybe, just outside Trussville maybe, further stretch even possible Alabaster, but not downtown Birmingham. Probably 50-60% of the buildings in the area are abandoned and there are hundreds of homeless people living in those. There talking about building this thing in one of the poorest areas, kind of the same type area that Legion Field is sitting. Just not a very logical idea
Well, Langford wants to build the dome at the dog track on the east side.
anyone see ESPN showing this the other night??
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,369826,00.html
a pitcher who throws RH and LH against a switch hitter
Greg Harris had a glove like that. The umpires said it probably wasn’t legal, and he never tried it in a major league game.
Trading proven players for prospects doesn’t insure that you will get better. Prospects are just that-prospects. Plus, you almost certainly will not get value for those players, especially Teixera. The Braves problems come down to this: a clean up hitter that is having a bad year and a right fielder that is a black hole.
And all this crap about putting together a “hustling young team.” The Braves are a hustling young team.” It’s already one of the youngest teams in the NL. The problem is not one of non-hustling, it’s having holes in the lineup. Whenever a team is struggling, fans always say they have no pulse rate. I mean, why not trade Chipper Jones? Sure, he is hitting .390 but he is limping around–why not get a hungry young guy that will slide head first into first base?
Having said that, I would not object to making a deal if the right one comes along but just tearing the team down just to tear it down makes no sense.
the question becomes, what will Tex bring you in return. We need a 1B and another young solid starting pitcher. If we can get both of those in return for him, I would probably make the deal. Both players would have to be MLB ready and I dont think many teams would trade those pieces for a 1/2 season of Tex. The Yanks wont because they’ll just outbid everyone after the season. If you cant get that, then save him for the draft picks and hope that he’ll start producing.
Next season already looks bright, I wouldnt tear anything apart. Next season I only see us needing another SP (Sabathia would be huge), 1B, and LF. I like Diaz, but he continues to prove that he cant hit RH and is not an everyday player. Can him and Brandon Jones give us enough production? Schafer should be ready, so whoever we get at 1st needs to give us some power. Bullpen will be strong with Boyer, Moylan, and Gonzo holding it down. There arent many missing pieces, new manager would help
The Braves problems come down to this: a clean up hitter that is having a bad year and a right fielder that is a black hole.
We have no outfielders on our roster. Maybe Brandon Jones is one, a Jones/Diaz platoon would certainly be one. We need two more. Blanco has a 85 OPS+ and is fading. I wish we could stop pretending he’s an adequate everyday player.
The pitching is very thin. We are depending on Reyes, Morton, and Campillo to fill out the rotation. That is extremely dicey.
I wish we could stop pretending we are a player or two away. This team needs to be sellers right now.
(Sabathia would be huge)
Too easy…
I was on my way to the gym when the discussion about the 2020 Birmingham Olympics arose–so let me return to that part of the thread.
Just a couple of quick observations–the first of which is procedural. I realize that the no politics rule is one of the things which guarantees the success of Braves Journal, but I would ask Mac to consider suspending the rule when the Olympics are discussed. My rationale for what I realize is probably an unworkable adjustment is that if there is any place where sports and politics connect it is the Olympics. The Olympics are really interesting to discuss, but it seems impossible without politics, because it is a political event.
On an unrelated note: I cannot see an Olympics in the American South anytime soon. I was in London during the 1996 games and all I heard was complaint after complaint from Europeans about the heat….
UPDATE:
Stu — fading.
Tom York — still going strong.
Ugh…*Thom.
I told you I was fading.
S of a B.
*Yorke.
(While the misspelled first name was a careless typo, I actually didn’t realize that Yorke had an “e” at the end of it. This, despite having read at least 2 dozen articles on the man and his band over the past several years.)
At least you’ve got Radiohead to keep you company, Stu. That’s a good thing.
Also, will Bobby start KJ today? I figured Gotay would be at 2nd, since there’s another left-hander pitching.
with Chipper and Escobar out, he’ll have to start.
Mac, even though we’ll all hate it, its time for a Phil Collins appearance again. We had a winning streak with him before. its time
also if Bobby was paying attention he would know that kelly is hitting .316 vs lefties and .266 against righties
I’ve never used a Radiohead song, because I’ve never really gotten into Radiohead. Maybe next week can be Radiohead week.
But today’s game thread has a Seattle artist of some repute.
A suggestion, Mac.
Which Radiohead, Stu?
Pour yourself some coffee.
Right now, I’m on The Bends (hence the above suggestion) for the second time, but I’ve gone through Pablo Honey, OK Computer (thrice), and Amnesiac, too.
Already had 2.5 thermoses of coffee. I’m doing better, thanks.
Thanks for reminding me that I need to revisit The Bends.
No deadline is too large when you have a Thermos nearby. Good luck!
No deadline is too large when you have a Thermos nearby. Good luck!
Thanks. Just cranking out some ‘Rogs & RFPs now. Hey, anytime I’m able to rock my Rainbows and a Wetteland-esque, sweat-stained Braves cap at the office, I can’t complain too much.
Probably my favorite Radiohead song ever, back when they rocked ass.
Also, if you’re gonna do Seattle, <a href=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbhYb_qGXZg”can a brother get some Posies?
Argh, sorry. — Can a brother get some Posies?
There is enough good stuff about this team to consider building on. For us to have been contenders this year a confluence of a lot of good things had to occur. Instead a confluence of bad things and gambles gone wrong happened.
The Good:
Chipper, Reyes, Jurrjens, Hudson (most of the time), KJ, McCann, Escobar, Campillo (our next Jorge Sosa?), Ring, Ohman, Boyer.
The Bad:
Texieria, Diaz, Boyer (Bobby’s fault), Bennet, Acosta, Gotay, Norton
The Ugly:
Francouer, Corky Miller (WTH is he doing on a major league roster?????)
The Hurt:
Smoltz, Glavine, Kotsay, Prado, Diaz, Soriano, Moylan
Special Category:
Hampton (jeez)
In the end the teams 1 and 3 starters, setup man, closer, starting center and left fielders, Hampton all end up on the DL for extended parts of the season or forever. The hell of it is, as most of us realize is that if Francouer and Texieria would do anything at all we could still contend. Its really amazing when you think about it.
AAR… “Embedding disabled by request”.
Can Hayward make the jump? The kid’s a Phenom
Freeman is also a possibility (they’re both around .330/.600) and he plays 1st…
Radiohead = The only band that matters…and the only one that has mattered in the last 15 years.
Mogwai and Godspeed! You Black Emperor both mattered briefly.
65DaysofStatic tend to matter when they’re not high.
The Decembersits totally mattered until the Crane Wife.
but Radiohead is the only one who just is, well, fucking rad.
Radiohead = The only band that matters…and the only one that has mattered in the last 15 years.
Mogwai and Godspeed! You Black Emperor both mattered briefly.
65DaysofStatic tend to matter when they’re not high.
The Decembersits totally mattered until the Crane Wife.
but Radiohead is the only one who just is, well, fucking rad constantly.
ugh…sorry fellas
Johnny–I agree with your breakdown, but I would add that we could contend because no one else in the division has run away with it.
That said, I really think that the future can be good if the Braves don’t trade away key prospects.
Given this thread, I would not be afraid to part with Mark ‘Second Half’ Teixeria, but I don’t think we would get very much. Therefore, I hope that Second Half gets it in gear so that we climb back into the NL East race.
Radiohead the only band that has mattered in the past 15 years? LOL
I like Radiohead and all, but sometimes hipsters these days just kill me. Again, LOL.
Stu’s not the only one in the office today … sigh.
No way Freeman and Hayward can make the jump from low A ball. Hopefully the Braves have learned some lessons from rushing Davies and Francoeur.
Re trading Tex and others–it all depends on where the Braves are in the standings and what other teams might offer. I don’t think the standings situation will look much better–the injuries and the holes will make it difficult to put together streaks of good play. So it then comes down to cost/benefit. Keeping him nets draft picks, but getting two (or more) legit prospects would reduce the uncertainty of draft picks and get players who could help 2-3 years sooner than draft picks could. Trading him would also save maybe $3m that could be saved to fill holes via free agency.
There are those who disagree… but my belief is that unless we’re talking very polished college players, nobody should play in the majors before they’ve had a full year at AA and AAA combined. Preferably, any pitcher should have a full year at AAA, but that’s hard in most circumstances.
Hipsters, hippies, etc.
If I worried about a band’s fanbase, as opposed to its actual music, I’d be in jail.
Because I would’ve killed all the trustafarian hippies at My Morning Jacket last night. Selfish, annoying people.
But I didn’t. I enjoyed the music & I remain a free man.
Oh, Yeah, The Braves Dept.
When a season begins to go off the rails & starts careening into the ditch, it’s always been best for me to dive deeper into music to keep my mind off the daily atrocity exhibition.
This team’s faults are obvious & numerous. And if laws of karma exist, they’re dealing a heavy retribution these days. Say what you want about this team’s makeup & underperforming stars, but the injury thing is reaching historic proportions.
Perhaps the only upside is to see how the Mortons, B. Jones, Blancos, etc., perform the rest of the way. And, of course, see if Chipper can win the batting title.
some good notes and thoughts from DOB yesterday….
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2008/06/20/road_disaster_a.html
says the Winn rumors are unfounded, but Freel has legs. He basically bashes Frenchy and has no clue why Ridgway is here
…but Freel has legs.
If only he didn’t, maybe he’d be tough to pitch to and he might actually get on base.
I wasn’t saying I cared about a bands fanbase…
…I was commenting more on comments made in this thread about radiohead being the “only important” band of the past __ years. Like I said, I love radiohead, saw them in Atlanta last month when they were there, my third time seeing them, but statements like that are ridiculous. I was also pretty amused that mogwai, godspeed! you black emperor, 65daysofstatic, and the decembrists were the only other bands he thought warranted consideration. I’m not trying to start a flame war, I just couldn’t let it pass without a huge eyeroll.
If Ryan Freel is the answer, you are not asking the right question.
Freel isn’t much of an upgrade–a bit more power than Blanco but worse on base pct. Don’t waste the money or the player(s) going to Cincy for a basically break even deal. Do hope like @#$% that Kotsay’s back gets better.
Any forecasts on Schafer? I hope no earlier than Sept if then.
no offense Mac, but i’ve been to both cities a couple times lately
and Birmingham makes Jacksonville look like Paris.
with Chipper and Escobar out, he’ll have to start.
Are we already sure they’re both out tonight?
Chipper for certain, Escobar probably.
Mac, I’ll agree with you that all hitters no matter how polished should spend at least a year at AA, and I think another year at AAA. Pitchers however, I think get wasted alot of times at AAA, at least starting pitchers. Maybe the IL is different, but living in a PCL town, there are so many bandboxes in this league, that I have noticed alot of teams in this league have their young pitchers skip AAA because it doesn’t do them alot of good. The Marlins for example do it all the time (this year with Tucker and Volstad). Dodgers with Kershaw, etc.
In my opinion, I think AAA is on its way to becoming exclusively roster filler/DL two week bench replacements and severely blocked prospects/veteran “AAAA” players as far as hitters go. As far as pitchers, a league full of Buddy Carlyles and relief pitchers is all I see happening.
I don’t see alot of real good developing going on in AAA these days, Charlie Morton excluded.
It just seems that as soon as a pitcher has any success in the upper minors, the Braves promote him to the majors, he does well for awhile, and then he has a few problems and they snowball. It’s different in the IL than the PCL, as you note, but I want them to have some success they can fall back on.
Game thread is up.
Paul DePodesta, as usual, has a smart opinion on callups:
Douglass = Moronic
obviously you disagree…but i comment on the fact that you know nothing of music…ergo…your taste is crap.
tell me another? hipster? jesus, you are childish. my tastes FAR outweigh yours.
oh, and the new MMJ is crap, as is ALL their music.
now, if Deerhunter came along, or the Black Angels…sure…but most of the time, Douglass, you are the backlash of what is good, ergo, what is hip.
i like fabulous music. and i HIGHLY doubt you’ve seen a Mogwai or God’s Pee or 64DOS show before you talk smack…
seeing that i WORKED at XYC in Chapel Hill, i can pretty much see that you’re moronic (hey…that’s an eye roll………………………..
…..for the obnoxious child who thinks he knows music…thanks Douglass for proving that the last three letters of your name fit…)
flame wars commence….
now…here’s hoping for a braves win/
ps–
and your “The Only Band That Matters” is????
please tell me it’s Coldplay…please tell me it it’s Green Day or some crap you think is good…please…
I don’t think it’s Coldplay. The official policy of this site is that Coldplay is the Jeff Francoeur of bands.