Jo-Jo Reyes should be the odd man out of the rotation picture, unless a move is made. I could be wrong, but I can’t see him actually passing James, and Jurrjens is a better fit stylewise. (Hampton, of course, won’t pitch.) Reyes looked good in 2007, in that he obviously had great stuff, but his results on the big league level were catastrophic, a 6.22 ERA, nine homers in only 50 2/3 innings, and more walks than strikeouts. His 2007 minor league stats are outstanding, a 2.72 ERA in 19 starts, with better than a strikeout an inning. He could be very good if he can get major league batters to swing and miss. With only four AAA starts, he needs more seasoning, but the Braves seem to like their pitchers bland.
Jeff Bennett pitched well in two starts, poorly in one relief appearance (where he got a vulture win) but seems more likely to wind up in relief anyway. The Braves have to put on the roster or risk losing him; I’ll deal with him in the relief pitcher comments.
Buddy Carlyle is still around, but I’m not sure why. The perception some people have is that he started out pitching well and then faded, but actually his ERA never got below four last season. He did have one strong stretch, five starts (one shortened by rain) from June 26 to July 21, which included four quality starts, two of them genuinely excellent — but those two were against the Natspos and the Pirates, the two worst teams in the league. The others were against a struggling Cardinals team and against the Padres at their home field, Dead Ball Era Time Machine Park. When he started pitching against good teams, he got hammered. He’s probably a better pitcher than his 5.21 ERA from last season, but not a whole lot better, and if he is anything more than a 20-game fifth starter, we’re in trouble.
Charlie Morton has been added to the 40-man roster and will be in spring training. Morton has great stuff, but the enthusiasm over him is premature. His career minor league ERA is a gargantuan 4.91, his WHIP 1.62. He’s walked a ton of guys without great strikeout numbers. Last year for Mississippi, he was mostly a reliever and pitched better, but not really well (career-best 4.29 ERA). If he can build on the gains he made late in the season and in the AFL, he can be a comer, but I don’t really expect him to compete in spring. If he pitches well in Mississippi/Richmond he could be the first guy they call when someone goes down.
Jairo Cuevas is also on the 40-man, for clock reasons I guess. He hasn’t really done anything worth noticing yet, and my guess is that any future he has will be as a reliever… Jorge Campillo is a non-roster invitee with a little major league experience. He’s a Mexican, career in organized ball didn’t get started until he was 26, and would seem to be a control-and-ground-balls guy… The Braves have several pitchers other than Jurrjens on their various prospect lists, but generally these haven’t pitched past A-Ball, and many haven’t seen Myrtle Beach yet. Tommy Hanson has seen High-A, could rise quickly, and might be called up if things get really bad.
Jo-Jo Reyes Statistics (Minor Leagues) – Baseball-Reference.com
Jeff Bennett Statistics (Minor Leagues) – Baseball-Reference.com
Buddy Carlyle Statistics – Baseball-Reference.com
Charlie Morton Statistics (Minor Leagues) – Baseball-Reference.com
Jairo Cuevas Statistics (Minor Leagues) – Baseball-Reference.com
Jorge Campillo Statistics (Minor Leagues) – Baseball-Reference.com
Thomas Hanson Statistics (Minor Leagues) – Baseball-Reference.com
Because nobody else has jumped in:
Reyes. Needs a little more seasoning at AAA but he has been so good there he needs to get to ML this year. His minor league stats say he SHOULD be at least a league average starting pitcher, but it may take some ML growing pains (like Glavine and Smoltz and most pitchers). We can afford some of those this year if 1-4 are solid.
Bennett. Possibly a good arm. At least a beter version of the vulture. Maybe a half step over that. As such, could probably handle 5th starter better than the average of what was there last year. Probably even exceed league average FOR A 5TH STARTER.
Carlyle. Got to hope for him and us that the elbow thing was part of his problem. If not, he has little utility.
Agree that Morton needs to stay down.
The rest are possibiities in the same way that Jim Carrey’s character had possibilities with Lauren Holly’s character in Dumb and Dumber.
scary stuff…………..what a motley crew
We’ve got nice depth at the 5th position, but we’ll still be in trouble if any of the top 4 go down. Here’s to hoping for a healthy year for Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, and James!
From the previous thread.
I somewhat disagree with the comment that soft tossers are dead once the hitters figure them out. Everyone figured out Glavine and Maddux (although Maddus threw harder than he was generally given credit for). I think the hitters all knew what Glavine and Maddux were going to throw. Everyone in the ballpark knew that when Glavine needed to get a guy out, he was going low and away. What made them great pitchers was they had the ability and the balls to execute and make good pitches in critical situations, including when they were behind the hitter, without being able to throw 95. The fact is, if a pitcher throws with late movement and location (like Maddus), he’s generally going to get any hitter in the history of baseball out even if the hitter knows what’s coming. Obviously, it’s better to have more quality pitches, but it’s execution, not pitch selection that counts. Having said that, given that it isn’t realistic to expect James to have the command of two Hall of Fame pitchers, he probably does need to develop another pitch. But he really needs to work on command; possibly, his command was hindered by his shoulder problems.
I will acknowledge that I am spoiled and that it is difficult for me to become accostomed to treating Chuck James-type pitching as a positive. It’s very hard for me to accept that five or six innings, throwing 100 pitches and giving up four plus runs a game is adequate pitching.
I fear that the Braves will screw up Jo Jo Reyes (and maybe Jair Jurrgens)like they have screwed up all of their young pitchers. They don’t seem to understand that you should treat young pitchers differently than young hitters.
Maddux had so much late movement on his ball it wasn’t really possible to truly know what was coming. Maddux’s pitches looked like balls past the point at which a hitter has to make the swing or no swing decision I think, then they’d just dive over the edge of the plate late for a strike. Maddux was in everyone’s head, he had them beat before they got to the plate.
Low and away pitches might be the most difficult to drive, if not the most difficult to connect with. Glavine just painted that corner of the plate so well that even if you knew it was coming you had to be committed to taking it to the opposite field for a single, which most hitters won’t do.
Maddux and Glavine were better at executing their gameplans than any other pitchers I’ve seen.
Also referring to the previous thread… James’ fielding-independent ERAs have always been higher than his real ERAs. The argument is that he gets many more pop flies than other pitchers because of his extreme fly-ball tendencies. Pop flies are almost always sure outs, but they aren’t tracked by FIP because nobody else gets enough to throw it off. I don’t know that this is true.
I’d venture to say that most teams would be in trouble if their 1 or two of their top 4 got injured. I think that group mentioned above is good enough to give you exactly what you need from spot starters. Glavine is a wild card in my opinion. How he pitches will go a long way toward our success this year. We need him to hold down that 3rd spot in order to give the rotation some structure. *crossing my fingers*
I think a lot depends on the bullpen. As bad as the back end of the rotation was, it was the bullpen that cost the Braves a number of games when Soriano was going through his meltdown. Other than Smoltz and Hudson, they can’t expect to get 7 or 8 innings from the starters most nights so they are going to need to have a shutdown bullpen, ie, get a lead and have the bullpen hold it from the sixth on. Realistically, they are going to have to get a lot of quality innings from the bullpen. I thought they would have a shutdown bullpen last year and they did for parts of the year but Gonzo’s injury and Soriano and Wickman’s problems made the starting pitching look worse than it probably was.
Soriano is up tomorrow, but while he had one bad stretch (July 14-22, three blown saves and a loss over five games) that was just about it, and most of his bad games came in blowouts. The Braves were 53-18 when Soriano pitched.
We need to sign Soriano to a three year deal.
Marc,
I agree that Maddux particularly was special and to some extent, Glavine. They did have great control that made lots of difference.
Maddux had the best control of any pitcher I have ever seen. I always explained it to my kids like this. If he threw a baseball from 60 feet at one of those pushbutton magnetic light switches from the 60’s, 50% of the time he would hit the switch.
However, I don’t think that hitters knew what either was going to throw. I have always believed from visual inspection (and I think the pitch f/x date agrees) that Maddux throws 6 different pitches. Fastball in 4 versions: straight, left breaking (tailing or sometimes called a slider), and right breaking (usually called a cutter). Change up. Curve (usually only on a “show me” basis. So I would say nobody knew what wa coming.
Glavine primarily used the fastball / change up combo. They knew it was one or the other, but his deception left them guessing which.
@1 So you’re saying there’s a chance!
The bullpen will be important no doubt. Last year we had to rely heavily on them because we had nothing after Smoltz and Hudson. That is why I say Glavine is very important. Glavine giving us quality starts will be vital to keeping the bullpen fresh. We all know that the 4 and 5 spots are going to allow the bullpen to have plenty of work to spread around.
When do individual games tickets go on sale?
jo jo will be fine.. Its really not a big deal that he had some rough outtings in his first 50 innings in the big legues. Just let it go and watch him become what he will become (which is a big league pitcher)
Morton’s stuff is nasty, and the only excitement thats premature comes from people who haven’t actually seen his stuff. You’ll find that his organization saw any success he’ll have coming a long time ago. He is figuring it all out and is still young, in his last 24 innings of the season he gave up 4 earned runs including 3 or four starts, then impressing in the afl as a starter and dominated in the rising stars showcase all in all 22 innings 22 k’s. Not saying he’s going to come into spring and dominate, but he could very well compete for a job.
Jeff Bennett, DOMINATED winter ball. He’s pitched 2 years in the big leagues for the brewers and is coming back from tommy john. To me he is impressive (so i’ll ring the bell on the small 07 big league sample) and I’d say he could be something very useful for the braves in 08.
Cuevas on the 40 man for clock reasons?? Is that what you say when you haven’t seen someone pitch or don’t understand why someone is protected based on numbers? The kid is talented, and has great stuff. He’s still young (at 23) and still has a high ceiling. I see him in the big league within the next 2 years.
I wouldn’t say the situation is as bleak as you say it is
I seem to remember Buddy Carlyle having a decent game in a win vs the Mets. For me, that was his high-water mark. But I agree that this bunch does not inspire confidence.
Maddux:
It’s been mentioned many times in the past by writers covering Maddux, but I’ll say it again: If you watched Maddux games closely, you would almost swear there were times when he could read the batter’s mind.
I’ve never seen a pitcher throw so many 3-pitch strikeouts where the K pitch was a fastball, almost right down the middle.
It was like the hitters had out-thought themselves into futility.
Cliff,
I don’t disagree with you, but if you count variations of the same pitch, I would bet that James has more than two pitches as well. I’m sure he doesn’t literally throw the same two pitches with no differences. After all, if you throw two offspeed pitches, one at, say 78 and another at 75,that is effectively two pitches. And deception isn’t so much the type of pitch you throw but how hard and where it’s located. I’m not saying James doesn’t need another pitch, just that I don’t think the quantity of pitches is nearly as important as the quality. I certainly don’t hold James to the Maddux and Glavine standards any more than I would hold Jeff Francouer to the Henry Aaron standard but I do think improving the command of the pitches should be the first thing before adding another, possibly mediocre, pitch.
I think the reason Maddux always had that smirk, was because he knew that he was in the hitters heads and he was just toying with them. I have never seen a pitcher with that much movement from a fastball.
Relaxsome –
I cannot say that I share your confidence in any of those pitchers, save Jo-Jo. I still believe he ends up a 2 or 3 in the big leagues and better than Jurrjens. It may not be this year, though.
The only pitcher I have not seen throw in a game is Morton, but it sounds like you have. I would be curious to hear your specific observations regarding both Cuevas and Morton if you truly believe either will exceed the role of spot starter for a MLB team.
But the point is, he was able to play with the hitters because he had that movement and could execute when he needed to. Yes, he did get away with throwing fastballs down the middle for strike three after playing with the hitter’s mind but that was because the hitter knew he had great movement and could throw great pitches. In recent years, as his command and movement have gotten worse, he has been a fairly ordinary pitcher even though presumably he still has the same number of pitches. In his prime, Maddux seemed to never leave a pitch out over the plate; now he does and he gets hit.
The thing about Morton, is that he has always been regarded as having some of the best stuff in the whole organization (top to bottom). And also as having some of the most potential to succeed as anyone as well. At 24, he is still maturing (which is not normal I guess) but his command improves and his stuff is sharper. He is throwing harder and harder every year. He doesn’t fit the mold of your typical prospect, but I believe the braves hold him as a top prospect (in that status). I can tell you I believe a spot starter is an understatement in terms of what he is capable of being. If he can carry over the success he’s acheived of late, we might see something even more special than just outstanding potential. He has the ability to make an impact as a starting pitcher no doubt (and not just a 5th spot guy). I remember months ago a report on here about morton in AZ from someone who saw him in the rising stars showcase. That report was dead on accurate (other than the fact that the person claimed he was too old, considering morton was younger than 25 guys on his team and is younger than prospects lillibridge, acosta, devine, and is the same age as brandon jones). The little hype is well deserved in terms of the tools he has, but I don’t blame anyone for being skeptical. only time will tell.
Cuevas is another guy that has some great tools, and while his numbers aren’t outstanding (like morton who has worse stats), he is capable of good things in the future. I don’t think that he has the upside morton has, but I do believe he is a major league prospect. He has the ability to go consecutive hitless innings outting after outting (4-5 innings at a time), but fomr some reason when he gives up a hit, he gets out of the groove and can’t get back in. This to me is a development problem which hopefully he’ll work out. But I think at this point, its safe to say these two are on their way to a major league career.
I know many are wary of talking about Clemens. But what do y’all think about him using statistics to try and prove that he wasn’t a user?
Cuevas hasn’t pitched above A-Ball, and is just two years removed from rookie ball. There’s no reason for a player who has such a negligible chance to make it to be on the 40-man unless he has to be.
Although Cuevas and Morton don’t strike me as anything that will immediately impact the Braves rotation, I do like our depth in the starting rotation. It may be irrational, but I believe that Hampton will make a contribution this year, which will make our rotation even better. I love the idea of Jurrjens and Reyes down in AAA for at least a little while.
Stats don’t prove or disprove anything about Clemens. I still tend to believe the trainer.
More Santana-to-the-Mets talk:
http://www.twincities.com/ci_8088611?source=most_viewed&nclick_check=1
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01282008/sports/mets/report__santana_trade_imminent__mets_hav_148674.htm
Cuevas was clearly added to the 40-man for clock reasons, same as Morton.
‘Course, what this means is more that the Braves consider these players worth keeping to the point where they’ll reserve them a spot on the 40-man roster rather than risk someone else picking them up. That’s praise, not a slight against their future status with the organization.
While I could see Morton in Atlanta at some point this year (depending on how well he does in the minors and in ST), I don’t think the Braves see Cuevas as a contributer for at least a little while; there’s no reason to have him on the 40-man except for the clock.
Also, I’m bullish on just about everyone mentioned above except for Carlyle. And I like this collection of young guys with some talent a lot more than last years’ Lerew/Cormier/Redman/whatever collection. Reyes, etc. could actually become something decent rather than just sure-fire mediocrity.
Is this a fair approximation of our people compared to the slop the Mets are offering?
Mulvey/ Reyes
Humber/ James
Guerra/ Acosta
Carlos Gomez/ more than Josh Anderson, less than Schaffer.
If so, don’t we have a better package than this? Shouldn’t we inquire if for nothing else to run the price up for the Mets and/or possibly put the Yankees or Red Sox in it(I know our management doesn’t want the contract)?
Reyes needs a full year at Richmond.
I don’t think we can drive up the price because we’re not credible trade partners. The Twins and Santana both must know that there’s no way we can get him signed long term so they’re not going to bother negotiating with us when Santana will just nix the trade.
I seriously hope the Mets don’t end up benefiting from the Twins overplaying their hand. If they get Santana for that package they’re offering then it would be a huge steal. The Mets are supposed to get fleeced, not the other way around.
From ESPN.com’s article on the currently-held-up Bedard trade:
If the Mariners trade Jones, one of their chief options to fill that vacancy is Luis Gonzalez.
Two baseball sources who have spoken to the Mariners say Seattle has been in contact with Gonzalez’s agent, Greg Clifton, and has indicated that if the Bedard trade happens, the Mariners are “very interested” in Gonzalez.
Luis Gonzalez. When they have Wladimir Balentien. If only we’d re-signed Dotel, we might be able to take the spare, potential stud OF off their hands.
What is the fascination with a 40-year old outfielder who cannot throw anymore and has lost his power and would move from the NL to the AL? Of course, this is the same team that traded Soriano for Horam. Luis Gonzalez? Why not just bring back Phil Bradley?
The Braves should try to make as many trades as possible with the Mariners–maybe they could have traded Woodward for Felix Hernandez.
Im somewhat surprised at the responses my posts have gotten (being no one has attacked me). Yes, I’m neither for nor against the immediate promotion of morton onto the 25 man roster, and because of the lack of minor league success long term its safe to say he needs to prove himself. The one thing I might disagree with is the subject of 40 man protection. Morton’s very strong showing in arizona caught the eyes of multiple people (scouts and coaches) from other organizations. For morton to be taken from the aaa protection roster, he would have had to be put on a major league roster for a full season to be kept. I believe very strongly that multiple teams, given the opportunity, would have taken a shot with him and given him a full year in the big leagues. Now, with the braves its a different story, because they want to *win*..And not have to risk the failure of a young inexperienced pitcher. But I do believe morton based on his stuff alone, is capable of pitching in the big leagues for someone.
Cuevas has put up better stats than morton, and may not have the stuff morton does, but obviously the braves believed he could pitch for someone at the major league level or they wouldnt have protected him any higher than the aaa protection roster (where dan smith, pope, holt, loadenthal etc are being protected.)
I would love to see reyes, cuevas and morton all pitch in atlanta this year, but i’d also love to see them have nice long careers, and for some, having a successful career (even if started later) is better than getting called up and getting shelled then sent down and later released. But all in all I believe the subject of 40 man protection is not only a significant promotion, but is also very symbolic of how the organization views the player..
Parish (from 12),
Yes, there is a chance.
Relaxsome,
Does the fact that Dan Smith, Pope, Loadenthal, Holt did not get selected in Rule 5 mean they can be optioned to Richmond (or elsewhere) this year?
ZiPS for 2008:
Jo-Jo Reyes: 7-10, 5.22 ERA, 150IP
Jeff Bennett: 4-4, 5.00 ERA, 81IP
Buddy Carlyle: 5-6, 4.91 ERA, 88IP
Charlie Morton: 4-8, 6.65 ERA, 92IP
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/2008_zips_projections_atlanta_braves/
With that, here’s hoping Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, James, Jurrjens and even Hampton can stay healthy.
The rule five draft is only to allow other teams the opportunity to select non protected players and players on AAA, AA, and A protection rosters. As you know players on the 25 man also maintain a spot on the 40 man. Allowing 15 spots for non 25 men roster players. Players protected on AAA, AA, and A *protection rosters* can be placed anywhere at any time. For example, morton’s protection year was two years ago, and since then he’s been protected on the AAA protection roster (even while playing at the high A and AA levels. The rule five draft allows teams to select a protected player or non protected players (with the exception of players on the 40 man of course). If a player is selsected in the rule 5 draft that is protected on the A roster, he must be placed on the selecting teams AA roster. Players selected from the AA roster must be placed on the AAA protection roster and players on the AAA protection roster must be placed on the 25 man roster for a full season or sent back to the original team. Once selected and placed on a protection roster, the purchasing club can place the player at any playing level they please (with the exception of the players selected from AAA rosters which must be placed on the MLB roster). TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION (and I apologize for this long explanation). The status of a non drafted (rule 5 draft) player is just that. He has not been selected. There is no more and no less to it. They can be sent anywhere at any time including the big leagues, the only difference with non 40 man roster players being called up to the big leagues is that the club will have to remove a player from the roster to make room for the new player (who will occupy a 40 man spot and a 25 man spot). Options only come in when a player is sent down from the 25 man roster. Example is joey devine. In 07 sent down and called up what 4 5 times? But he only used one option..because you are allowed to call up send down any amount of time in one year (but it costs the club an option). The players you mentioned haven’t been in the position to lose options. I think I gt ff track right there sorry
relaxsome,
Do you have an email address at which I can reach you? If you’d prefer, I can post mine. I’d be very interested to ask you a couple of questions.
Wilkerson is about to sign with Seatle, according to mlbtraderumors.com.
So doesn this mean Javy migh make the team?
Does what mean Javy might make the team?
DAN,
What are those stats you posted? Who predicted those?
unfortunately I don’t have a solid email address..i’d be glad to answer any questions here or maybe there is another way
What sort of connection do you have to the team/organization? I will of course understand if you’d rather remain anonymous.
(Also, it’s possible that I’ve misread you and you aren’t connected.)
Dan, if we could get a 5.00 ERA out of our 5th starter slot, and somewhere around 3.70 to 4.00 from Glavine and James in the #3/#4 slots, we’d be in a tremendously better position than last year. We’d easily win 90 games.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3219098
Phillies have the NL East sewn up. Pedro Feliz is their new third baseman. :p
oh noes y’all
I think it’s a good deal. It’s just two years, so it doesn’t cripple them like Bell did. Feliz isn’t a very good hitter, but he’s not a total offensive zero, and he’s the best defensive third baseman in the game. He’s a whole lot better (in all phases of the game) than Abraham Nunez and Wes Smelms, who held down the position (and the team) last year. This is actually a big improvement, a two or three game boost.
My fondest memory of Pedro Feliz is back when we had Reitsma closing out games and I think Feliz had a key hit in the 9th.
I think it was the same series where Chipper charged a ground and slid on the infield grass messing up his knee.
*grounder
I was sarcastically referring to his offense, but yeah, his defense is very good. Maybe that would be the two or three game boost.
A game or two for offense (Nunez and Smelms were really bad — .234 .318 .282 and .246 .297 .368 bad respectively) and a game or two for defense. Greg Dobbs played some there, and was okay, but Nunez and Smelms played more.
Feliz’s OPS+ the last couple years: 85, 79, 81. In fact, Feliz’s career OBP is 30 points lower than Bell’s.
Yeah, he’s better than Abraham Nunez and Wes Helms, but he’s extremely not good with the stick, and if they bat him any higher than 7th he actively hurts their team. He will help their defense, and between him and Rollins the’ve got a very solid left side. But still.
It’s what he’s replacing. It’s the value of bad over putrid. It’s like trading two completely moldy oranges for a mushy banana.
Good deal for the Phils. That sucks.
The Braves seem to have a solid scouting report on him though. .229/.274/.349 in 117 PAs.
My fondest memory of Pedro Feliz is back when we had Reitsma closing out games and I think Feliz had a key hit in the 9th.
I think it was the same series where Chipper charged a ground and slid on the infield grass messing up his knee.
That was, I believe, the second series to start the 2006 season. Reitsma also gave up a homerun to Lance Niekro in that game I think.
My fondest memory of Pedro Feliz is back when we had Reitsma closing out games and I think Feliz had a key hit in the 9th.
He had the key hit in one of the many showings of “Wickmania blows a Hudson gem” from last year. link
We did manage to win that one though.
Playing in that little-league park, gotta believe that Feliz could easily end up with more than 20 HRs this year.
Phillies 3Bs last year went .255/.321/.368. 25 errors vs. 22 DPs.
Feliz went .253/.290/.418 with 11 errors vs. 28 DPs in about 84% of the defensive innings.
If you like 1.4xOBP + SLG:
Phils: 817.4
Feliz: 824
Defensively, per 162 G:
Phils: 25 E, 22 DP, 2.85 RF
Feliz: 13 E, 33 DP, 2.91 RF
Feliz is not very good, but he’s probably 10-15 runs better than what they had.
Extrapolating from their salaries and defensive innings at 3B, the Phils paid about $1.6 million for the above production. Feliz made $5.1 million last year.
Whoops, forgot to do park adjustment:
Road (1/4xOBP + SLG)
Phils: 815 (approx.)
Feliz: 853.4
So maybe he’s 20-25 runs better.
Is 40 pts in adjusted OPS really worth 20 runs?
Well, good for them then.
Angelos going to kill the Bedard deal?
“UPDATE, 1-28-08 at 4:51pm: I honestly didn’t think Angelos would interfere with this one. But according to Ken Rosenthal, the deal is on hold and possibly off because of him. Then again, we knew it was on hold until Tuesday anyway because of Angelos’ availability.”
I was calling it 10 offensive runs and 10 defensive runs added by Feliz. I don’t know, maybe that’s an overestimation.
Mac,
You are going to cover Boyer in the relievers section too? I would have thought the swingman job was between him and Bennett
I’ll take on Boyer with the relievers. I figure he’ll be in the bullpen, or will be waived (with the chance he’ll be picked up elsewhere or refuse an assignment to the minors), or will go on the DL with a mysterious case of relapsing/remitting “tendinitis”. I don’t think there’s much chance he’ll be a starter, and the Braves haven’t thought of him as one for several years.
I think every Mariners fan is praying for Peter Angelos to interfere with this deal as much as possible. The Orioles would be getting a hell of a lot of talent, and U.S.S. Mariner’s pretty despondent — after all, the M’s aren’t so much a playoff team as an overachieving, overpriced free agent team on the verge of turning into the Giants. What they need is the prospects they’re trying desperately to sell to the O’s, and Angelos is the only thing between them and a really, really thin farm system.
The Braves never thought of him as a starter, Mac. They used him in that role in the minors simply to increase his workload and “stretch him out.”
Incidentally, I really am sorry for having apparently chased off the organizational insider. I got greedy.
thanks Stu
I’m one of the few who picked the Dodgers in the poll. The Yankees are indeed Bad People, but growing up with Dodger Blue in our division ingrained a deep dislike that trumps even the Steinbrenners.
I’m surprised Mac didn’t put Tennessee on there.
I cannot take this poll seriously, Mac, if you aren’t including the Cardinals (!!!!) or the Red Sox (!!!!)?
re: starting rotation
I’m completely in agreement with Mac that we won’t see one full start all year from Mike Hampton.
I also have this sneaking suspicion that Chuck James may not be in the rotation by mid season and instead, both Jo Jo and Jurgjens will be in there with the veteran trio.
I am just not buying James until I see him pitch regularly past the 5th inning. I think Jo Jo is the real deal.
alex r. — i too wondered where the sox were until I realized the specificity of the poll. sox aren’t people, they’re objects. cardinals are birds.
The Indians should be on the list. (You might argue that, political correctness of the name aside, they’re more human than “Giants.”) You could make a case for the Angels, though I can understand why they wouldn’t qualify as human; still, whatever your theological bent, they’re probably peopleish.
Braves are people too, of course, but we like them.
Stu,
Yeah, you were a little quick on the chase there. Oh well. I *almost* understand the Rule 5 draft and am interested in Cuevas now so it’s all good.
Nice of the “Org” to post, honestly. Their knowledge is always welcome. And there’s no reason why it can’t remain anonymous, really.
#71
Oh, I didn’t realize this was only about ‘people’ – I just thought Mac was listing a bunch of enemy teams which is why I scratched my head to see the Brewers on there but no Red Sox.
For me, overall, here’s my personal most hated teams list in order:
1. Cardinals
2. Phillies
3. Red Sox
4. Mets
5. Yankees
3.