59 thoughts on “Make fun of the Mets, or not”

  1. I hate the Mets, but I do love to watch them waste their money. Of course it might not be a waste this year if they can convice Furcal and Manny Ramirez to come on board. I wouldnt be surprised if they offered Furcal something outrageous. Such as 4yr – 42-44 mil…You never know!

  2. Sub-topic: Manny Ramirez. What kind of deal is he known to be seeking? And since he’s entering his mid-30’s, is he more likely to be the next Gary Sheffield, or the next Jim Thome?

  3. Anyone else annoyed that after all that hype, the AL outfielder who used steroids ended up being Matt Lawton? He’s like the Terry Mulholland of corner outfielders–traded every July, gone every October.

    Okay, now it’s confession time. I’m a closet Mets fan. It goes back to my grandmother being a Mets fan, because she was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, and so she rooted for the National League New York team. So I’ll admit that there’s a slight conflict of interest when I say that the Mets aren’t stupid, they just suck.

    But they suck much more lovably than the Cubs nowadays. And that’s gotta count for something.

  4. I can’t believe Vizquel beat out Furcal at shortstop. I know he’s got the rep, but there’s no way he did more at the position than Raffy.

  5. sorry stu but all that seems to matter is a player’s rep. I don’t know how much of an actual player’s defense matters. Vizquel used to be a top ss in the majors, but at 55 you can’t tell me he plays better defense then furcal. Of course Jeter did win the American league award so once again it must be about rep and not performance.

  6. It would be perfectly normal for the Mets to sign Furcal to a 4 year 48 million to play second, and to trade for Manny and Thome. The Sox would probably love to have Cameron in center, and the Phils could always use some more overrated prospects. I can just see a 150 million dollar payroll turning into a Willie Randolph firing by July. This will be more fun than ever.

  7. I’ve hated the Mets since ’69, when the *&%$ Miracle Mets and Ron Freaking Swoboda, beat Aaron’s Braves. After the Braves, my favorite team is whoever is playing the Mets. Whew, I feel better already. I’m really glad they’ve had such an inept front office for many years, but given time, Minaya will probably change that.

    And Stu, you’re right. Furcal was the best defensive shortstop in the league this year and should have won the Gold Glove

  8. Apparently Vizquel gets a $100,000 bonus for winning the Gold Glove. I hope he gives that money to charity or something. He had no business winning the award.

  9. That’s too bad about Furcal, but then again, Andruw probably didn’t deserve his. Bobby Abreu? Wow. They must watch him play on different days than I do.

  10. Another stike against Furcal. Can’t even win the gold glove.

    I say we make fun of the Mets. Their mascot has a huge baseball for a head and his name is Mr. Met.

  11. How did Mike Lowell win onw? Must have been rep, he look lost this year. Maybe there are no more healthy guys to play third well in the NL.

  12. Why are we still discrediting Andruw’s defense? Maybe he is not as good as he was few years back, but he has to be one of the top three defensive outfielders in the league.

    I agree that Furcal and his agent are using the Mets to drive up the price. It’s quite hard to have a bidding war with only two teams involved! Nevertheless, putting Furcal at second base is like playing Andruw in leftfield, completely stupid…unless Minaya knows Selig is considering to reverse the diamond and ask the runners to reach third base first…

    By the way, Manny Ramirez is still under contract for another three seasons I think. He just wants to get out of Boston for some unknown reasons…or is it because he wants a contract extension? How on earth can he get a better contract than the one he originally signed?!

  13. You have to figure that Mike Lowell only got a Gold Glove because of Rolen’s injury. Vizquel is certainly not an unworthy winner. Perhaps Furcal not winning will save some team $3 or $4 million a year (probably not the Braves unfortunately). Maddux won his entirely on reputation. He was a below average fielder this season. Not only does he continue to fail to hold runners on base (I’m not sure if that’s fielding or pitching), he has become easy to bunt on and never seems to try for the lead runner on bunts or comebackers.

  14. Well Doug, it’s quite hard to get the lead runner out without a strong throw, and Greg can’t throw a changeup that far to second or third base…Do his fastballs top at 84 nowadays?!

  15. Well, Will Carroll said that the name that tested positive would be someone we cared about.

    I don’t know about you all, but I just don’t care a whole lot about Matt Lawton.

  16. Speaking of Mets ineptitude and gold gloves, does anyone know the last Met to win a gold glove? I’m having trouble thinking of great Mets defensive players. Bud Harrelson was pretty good a long time ago, they had Robbie Alomar past his peak, Ray Ordonez(no offense at all)…???

  17. i think it was in 1999 when the mets were hyped in SI as having perhaps the best defensive infield in baseball history. orodonez won the gold glove that year, and the two previous as well. so did ventura.

    anyway, mets fans are the scum of the earth, and shea stadium is one of the most unpleasant places in the united states.

  18. As a native New York city kid I have to chime and explain something (which I’m sure you all know): The biggest problem with the Mets and the cause for their apparent ineptitude is being in the same city with the Yankees. It becomes a “keeping up with the Joneses” type of thing especially when they’re a known target of Steinbrenner who wants all the papers in this city to just focus on the Yanks. This is a pressure that causes them to lack the patience necessary to build a successful franchise. Only time will tell if the tandem of Omar Minaya and Willie Randolph will make a difference.

    The cornerstone of this team is the left side of the infield with Wright and Reyes. Also, we can put Beltran into that category despite the disappointing season he had.

    Despite the problems all over the club, pitching still remains the key problem. Pedro was great but is aging. Glavine is practically a mystery and quite inconsistent over significant pieces of time. Kris Benson is just potential and not much else. And they just re-signed Trachsel while letting Braden Looper go.

    I don’t think either Manny or Raffy are going there. There is no palpable reason why Raffy would want to move over to 2B and his arm would be wasted anyway. Manny is an incredible hitter but not the brightest light in the room. So, basically what we have is him doing his annual craziness and we should wait till spring to see if anything serious develops. I can’t imagine the Red Sox letting him go somewhere else.

    My gut tells me the Mets closer next year will be Ugueth Urbina.

  19. Edmonds and Andruw have a strong hold on two of the gloves. Abreu is really good, glad to see he won one.

  20. Miguel Cabrera would have won a Gold Glove had he played third longer than a month or two.

  21. Gold Gloves. Another of those things that are less important than they seem to be. Baseball writers. Geez. Before James. Bill that is, I used to believe that the Gold Glove winner was the best fielder. Now….. well lets just say that a lot of the time the proof isn’t in the pudding. It usually means the best player at a position. If he doesn’t suck really bad and he out hits everyone at his position then, poof, Gold Glove.

    The Cubs have to hate the crap out of the Mets right now. They are going to drive the price of Furcal right up to the ridulcous point. With the Mets in it now the chance of retaining Furcal are absolutley zero.

  22. I agree, there is no chance Furcal will be back. David, you are right, Miguel Cabrera is surprising good third baseman.

  23. I just had to post these two sentences my dad sent me in an e-mail:

    “He [Mike&Mike guy] also thinks about the only job available for Theo would be with the Nats! How low can you go?”

    This just made me laugh. Gotta love those Natspos.

    For the record, I predicted Theo Epstein was gone on October 26. Anybody who wants their fortunes read, the line forms at the left and the charge is $7.48 so I can order a sandwich.

  24. If the Yanks end up trading Cano and signing Furcal for second, or making some other good move, they might win the AL East. It’s also hard to count out the Sox. Even with their management in shambles, they still have the core of a potentially great team.

    I’d bet on the Orioles, though. They have some bats, and their huge problem last year was starting pitching, particularly the lack of durability thereof. I really think Mazzone’s good enough to fix those problems. And Hayden Penn could emerge as decent.

  25. I am actually thinking the Yankees’ real problems are starting pitching and lack of depth in the bullpen. Their offense is hardly a problem at all. I am sure they will fix the bullpen and the center field issues, but they seems to be happy with the rotation of Randy Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Wright, Chacon/Small, which I don’t think it’s good enough. That rotation is a even bigger question mark than the Braves’ rotation, and it’s twice as expensive.

  26. With Wang added to that list of six potential starters above, you have seven guys for five rotation spots. Whomever is left out (probably Chacon and Small) will immediately help the bullpen.

    Pitching and defense go hand-in-hand, and trading Cano for a real center fielder would probably help the Yanks.

    I won’t be surprised if the Yanks buy Millwood just because they can.

    I would still rather have Randy Johnson next year than any member of the Braves rotation. In fact, unless Thomson gets back on track at the #3 spot, I’d say the Yanks rotation is better at every spot than the Braves.

  27. The cornerstone of this team is the left side of the infield with Wright and Reyes. Also, we can put Beltran into that category despite the disappointing season he had.

    Despite the problems all over the club, pitching still remains the key problem. Pedro was great but is aging. Glavine is practically a mystery and quite inconsistent over significant pieces of time. Kris Benson is just potential and not much else. And they just re-signed Trachsel while letting Braden Looper go.

    See, that’s almost exactly the opposite of the numbers actually break down for the Mets. Their pitching was pretty good last year, but their offense was atrocious.

    The Mets are weird. If they put the right guys in their rotation, Pedro, Heilman, Seo, Glavine, and Zambrano, they’d have a killer staff. Instead, they insist on putting Benson in the rotation and choosing between Heilman and Seo. Starting pitching is the LEAST of their worries, though.

    The problem with the Mets is their hitting. Wright is ridiculous, and Cameron’s pretty good, but things get kind of sketchy behind them. Floyd had a good year, but he’s always a question. Diaz may be acceptible, as might Beltran, but they could be total wastes.

    The infield, besides Wright, is just ugly offensively. All three spots, including Reyes, are out machines. People go ga-ga over Reyes because of his steals, but he gets on base at exactly the same clip as Kaz Matsui. And who knows what they do at catcher. Castro is no kind of answer.

  28. Padres are apparently announcing some sort of trade soon; their local radio guy has floated three theories:

    1) Wily Mo Pena. The Reds have to trade one of their OFs eventually, so the price may have slipped since midseason. No word on who would move back, though almost certainly pitching.

    2) Klesko to Anaheim to bring Finley home to retire. Boring, but the most likely of the three.

    And, the interesting one:
    3) Marcus Giles for Scott Linebrink, with other names to balance it out some. Giles goes to play with big bro, Linebrink would (I assume) be closing for the Braves after being brilliant setting up Hoffman, so Farnsworth jettisoned. And any salary room the Braves gain gets thrown at Furcal.

    I don’t think this will happen, both because the Padres have been very hesitant to trade Linebrink or Otsuka in the past, and because it’s a move that would mean an incredible overhaul for the Braves to accomplish this winter.

    But it’s worth thinking about, because it might be a preview of a deal worked later: what would Schuerholz have to get, from the Padres or anyone else, to make trading Giles worthwhile? What would it mean–Betemit or Marte competing for second (since be better not be Orr)? The Pads have Josh Barfield, who is pretty much ready for the majors, maybe he would be a counterweight.

  29. Heh, (since it better not be Orr) should be the parenthetical there. Fixed other stuff in the preview but somehow messed that up.

  30. Marcus is going no where unless the Braves are tired of his off-field behavior or his post-season struggle. If JS was not willing to include Marcus in a deal for Hudson last year, he will not trade Marcus for freaking Linebrink. I am not saying Linebrink is bad, but he is an unproven closer and he should cost the same level of talent the Braves gave up for Farnsworth.

    Klesko for Finley…that’s a pretty good deal for both sides. They can move Erstad back to center field and Klesko will either DH or playing at first base. He will find life a lot easier being away from Petco Park.

    JoeyT, I really don’t think the Yankees will trade away Cano. They seems to like Cano a lot, especially after his post-season performance, and they would like to go back to building from within. Brain Cashman has already said the Yankees are cutting the payroll. Perhaps Cashman finally convinced George that he can not buy a championship after what happened last season. Of course, they will still re-sign Matsui, a center fielder, and relieve pitchers. However, Cano is hardly the Yankees’ biggest concern.

  31. Ar, drew, I would like to add that my reaction is based on a fact that there is no one on the Padres’ roster which deserve us to trade Marcus except for Peavy, who the Padres will not trade anyway.

  32. Will Carroll responds:

    My response, I think, is worth sharing widely: “All-star OF who played on a playoff team? What do you want? Do we all only care about gotchas and the next Palmeiro? Will we need ever increasing names or do we just want to headhunt Bonds until he admits he’s the anti-christ, shot Kennedy, and impregnated our daughters with his steroid-ridden seed?

    “Really, what player SHOULDNT we care about and if I say, on national radio, “No, we shouldnt care” what does that say about me?”

    I’ll have more on the case, factually, in tomorrow’s BP.

  33. Yeah, the word of inconsistency pretty much summarized the 2005 season for the Braves. There is always something that is not right, and the bullpen problem was never fixed despite numerous attempt on different players in different roles. The one pitcher, Sosa, who could possibly solved some of the problem was forced to stay in the rotation. Sigh…

  34. Why would the Padres trade a decent, if aging, player (Klesko) for a 41-year-old who is obviously done (Finley)? Finley has spent at least four years with four different organizations (Orioles, Astros, Padres, D’Backs), and he hails from Tennessee. Does he even have a home to retire to?

  35. Expanding on previous point, Finley only spent 4 seasons as a Padre, while Klesko has now been there for 6 seasons, and is a California boy to boot. If the Padres are going to get all misty over either of them, it should be Klesko.

  36. Can someone expand on the Giles behavior thing? I’ve heard one poster say that he was rude during an autograph signing, but I haven’t heard any thing that rose to the level of newsworthy – is there something I missed?

  37. The finley/klesko makes little sense.

    If Marte can play second, i think trading marcus is a viable option. His on-base % is dropping each year. He hacks way too much for a #2 hitter.
    And, Well, I’ll just say it. I think marcus and big bro were juicers. Brian languished for 7 years in the minors before becoming a part of the mid-90’s “power boom”. Remember, marcus hit 37 dongs in 1998 in a short A-ball season.
    Compare that to the decline in power numbers the Giles family has experienced the past few years, and you get a scary picture of what the future holds. But for arguments sake, lets say he’s a .300/12hr/40dbl guy, and that is good for the team, but not a building block. Marte should be able to compile those numbers.

  38. Don’t worry, spike. Once Giles is gone you won’t hear anything but bad things about him from “anonymous inside sources.”

  39. Didn’t Giles make some critical comments about Braves management? If he did, that’s a sure way to get a ticket out of Atlanta.

  40. My inside sources are telling me that Marcus Giles’ kicked a dog and spit tobaccy juice on a pregnant lady.

  41. I’m with spike. All I’ve heard/read is one poster’s account, which could be tainted by the same hearing and memory errors everyone has regarding conversations and events.

  42. Vizquel was hardly undeserving compared to Furcal…

    FPCT: Vizquel .988 (1st) vs. Furcal .981 (7th)
    ZR: Vizquel .872 (4th) vs. Furcal .858 (6th)

    Of course Furcal beat him in Range Factor (5.23 to 4.60) and Win Shares (8.1 to 6.3), but both of those are highly dependent on whose pitching. Get a lot of ground balls and the shortstop gets more opportunities and let more guys on 1st and there are even more because of double plays.

    Zone Rating on the other hand actually tries to take into account the balls they were actually supposed to get.

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